Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2005-10-02

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

| Channels | #perl6 index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary

All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 larsen has quit IRC ("later")
01:01 stevan hey putter
01:03 nothingmuch has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:05 justatheory has joined #perl6
01:29 scook0 has joined #perl6
01:33 sleepster is now known as typester
02:05 stevan autrijus: let me know when you commit Pugs.Class.* I am very interested to see the metamodel come to life in Haskell
02:05 * stevan ponders porting the MM 2.0 tests to Pugs .... hmmm
02:36 justatheory has quit IRC ()
02:51 frodo72 has quit IRC ("Ciao a tutti / bye to all")
03:15 hexmode has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
03:25 justatheory has joined #perl6
03:26 justatheory has quit IRC (Client Quit)
04:35 justatheory has joined #perl6
04:51 tex0r has joined #perl6
04:53 onetwo3 has joined #perl6
05:00 * geoffb rezzes in
05:00 geoffb Since I seem to be off schedule from . . . well, basically everyone right now . . .
05:00 justatheory has quit IRC ()
05:00 geoffb rafl: what are the plans re: packaging parrot 0.3.0 for Debian?
05:01 geoffb autrijus: Will you be attempting 0.3.0 compat for 6.2.10 or 6.28.0?
05:01 geoffb stevan: I skimmed through MM 2.0, and I'm curious about stylistic choices:
05:02 geoffb 1) Why so many routines forced into the P5 :: namespace?
05:02 geoffb 2) Something about it feels . . . not sufficiently sugary.  Is this intentional, for performance or stylistic reasons?
05:02 geoffb 3) Are you planning to add more sugar in a later rev?
05:03 geoffb 4) How much of the MM code exists merely to perform the bootstrapping, and how much is useful to the programmer after bootstrap?
05:03 onetwo3 has left
05:03 geoffb Um . . . I think that's most of what I wanted to ask for now.
05:05 stevan hey geoffb
05:06 geoffb hey stevan
05:06 stevan to answer your questions ...
05:06 stevan 1) I was trying to avoid p5 namspaces alltogether, and the easist way to do that was to force the global :: namespace
05:07 stevan 2) the MM is not where the sugar is,.. the sugar is in the language itself
05:08 stevan 3) nope,.. no more sugar,.. thats autrijus's problem ;)
05:08 geoffb 1a) Why avoid P5 namespaces entirely?  In other words, since in effect you chose one namespace to use everywhere, why not a different one?
05:09 geoffb 2a) Sugar to make later MM .pl files cleaner, not sugar exposed to the user programmer
05:09 stevan 4) only genesis.pl is bootstrapping,.. the rest is building up the meta-objects, which (I hope) will be exposed for the user to manipulate
05:09 geoffb 4a) Fair enough.
05:10 stevan 1a) MM 2.0 was an attempt at a pure meta-model, not just a "lets see how this feels" prototype
05:10 stevan I asked autrijus what I could expect to be available to me
05:10 stevan he said "arrays, hashes, scalars and subs"
05:11 stevan i did my best to build it out of just that,.. keeping as much of the "not just that" stuff in chaos.pl
05:11 stevan also,... p5 namespaces/packages will not work the same was as p6 namespaces/packages
05:12 stevan so I felt it best to avoid them
05:12 stevan 2a) ??
05:12 geoffb So am I correct to assume that MM 2 is optimized for implementation language portability?
05:12 stevan geoffb: yes
05:13 stevan and theoretical correctness
05:13 stevan based on  the theory I know,. which I hope is correct :)
05:13 geoffb 2a.1) Um, clearly I'm not making any sense.  :-)  I guess I was trying to say that some of the files contain a lot of repeated very similar constructions; I expected to see some of that factored away.
05:13 geoffb I hope that makes more sense
05:13 geoffb heh
05:13 stevan I borrowed heavily from what I had read about CLOS and Smalltalk (including source code)
05:13 geoffb nod
05:14 stevan 2a.1) you mean like refactoring some common things into helper subs and such?
05:14 stevan things like attribute access, and such
05:15 geoffb yeah, that's what I meant, exactly.  I was wondering if it was intentional, or historical artifact, or todo, or what
05:15 stevan well, I didnt want to make any assumptions about sharing of code between various elements of the metamodel
05:16 geoffb . . . because some languages might not make that easy?
05:16 stevan exactly
05:17 geoffb ah-hah.  OK.
05:17 stevan it might force the implementation to conform in a certain way
05:17 stevan and besides,.. I am a fast typer,.. so I dont mind :)
05:17 geoffb The code was too regular not to have a reason for that, but I couldn't figure out what the reason was.
05:17 stevan agian,.. for "correctness" over anything else
05:17 stevan and readability too
05:17 geoffb nod
05:17 tex0r has quit IRC (Connection timed out)
05:18 stevan I suppose I saw that as an implementation descision,.. if you want/can do that,.. go for it
05:18 geoffb right, I think I understand now.
05:18 stevan other than that,.. no good reason really ;)
05:19 stevan MM 1.0 was more about "what can I do to just make it work as specced"
05:20 geoffb So . . . what kind of performance are you expecting from your primitives (the above mentioned arrays, hashes, scalars, subs) . . . have you assumed roughly P5-level O() performance?
05:20 stevan MM 2.0 was more about "how should this really be designed, in order to make it work as specced"
05:20 stevan geoffb: performance is something I have not even thought about until very recently
05:20 geoffb . . . the reason I ask is to know if a language that doesn't intrinsically have an array type with O(1) random access needs to have it emulated to get proper MM performance, for instance
05:21 stevan bascially when putter started adding it to PILRUN
05:21 geoffb nodnod
05:21 stevan to be honest,.. I haven't given it that depth of thought
05:21 geoffb nodnod.
05:22 stevan I know the way Smalltalk approaches it is ..
05:22 stevan if it needs to be fast,.. it is a primative method
05:22 geoffb Perl 5's primitives can lull one into believing that hashes and arrays are intrinsically fast things . . . but that's only because of a lot of implementation effort on Larry's part
05:23 stevan and CLOS make a seperation between functional and procedural parts of the protocol,.. functional being (mostly) side-effect free,. and so easily memoizable
05:23 stevan geoffb: yes, that is true
05:23 geoffb thats an interesting and useful distinction . . . (the CLOS one)
05:23 stevan yes, I only recently stumbled on that chapter :)
05:24 geoffb :-)
05:24 stevan hence the recent memoization of method dispatch in chaos.pl
05:24 stevan it was about a 20% speed boost on my machine
05:24 geoffb nothing to sniff at.  :-)
05:25 stevan geoffb: I guess I make an assumption that the implementation has a resonably fast Map (hash) and Array type
05:25 stevan most do now adays
05:25 geoffb fair enough.
05:25 stevan its the compilers problem,. not mine ;)
05:25 * geoffb is just poking at the design to see what goes "boing"
05:25 geoffb heh
05:26 * stevan very much appreciates that
05:26 stevan I am very interested to see what happens when autrijus starts hacking it into Haskell
05:26 stevan the last time it exposed some issues in the design
05:26 geoffb ditto
05:27 geoffb nodnod
05:27 geoffb Is autrijus in flight?
05:27 stevan mostly that it was to dependent on Perl 5 OO
05:27 stevan literally?
05:27 geoffb right, I vaguely remember that
05:27 stevan I have no idea
05:28 stevan oh yeah,.. also did I mention I have obsessive compuslive personality disorder?
05:28 geoffb figuratively, I guess, as in "making his way home" as opposed to "doing a post ICFP hackathon" or "heading to another country not his own", or whatever
05:28 stevan not like wash your hands OCD
05:28 stevan just I get obsessed with things,.. like MM purity
05:28 geoffb (which I have)
05:29 stevan I think he is heading to europe,... although I am not sure of that
05:29 stevan EURO OSCON I think
05:29 geoffb I'm not like a movie character, but I definitely have (undiagnosed) OCD.  I just accepted it, and went on with my life.
05:29 * stevan scored higher on the ADD test then most tests he "took" in high school
05:29 geoffb heh
05:30 stevan and I take way too much pleasure in silly useless things
05:30 geoffb That, I think, is generally a good thing
05:30 stevan "All art is quite useless" - Oscar Wilde
05:32 * geoffb is trying to decide what to do next with his awake time . . .
05:32 geoffb hmmm . . . catch up on $work, read online for a while, eat some good chocolate, . . . more than one of the above maybe
05:33 geoffb A little too burnt on massive Forth input to work on the interpreter right now (though from the last book, it's clear my interp needs a major overhaul)
05:33 stevan $work is no fun, chocolate is good,..
05:33 stevan hey actually,.. that reminds me...
05:34 geoffb Yeah, but getting done with $work *is* fun . . . :-)
05:34 stevan I wanted to talk with you about an article idea I had while mowing my lawn
05:34 * geoffb chuckles
05:34 stevan I actually threw it out to chromatic earlier tonight,.. no response yet.,.. last I heard he was on vacation
05:35 stevan the title says it all
05:35 geoffb Geeks are so good at thinking during everyday activities.
05:35 stevan Perl for Programming Language Research
05:35 stevan basically,. there seems to be a lot of activity lately around this area
05:35 geoffb That seems like a good idea to me . . . but it would either have to be high level or *long*
05:35 stevan you, nothingmuch with the Forth thing
05:35 stevan nothingmuch's Blondie
05:36 stevan I think it would end up being long
05:36 stevan cause you just cant skim this one
05:36 geoffb From what I can tell, chromatic is religious about only doing O'Reilly mail during pure working hours, and he seems to only check it like once or twice a day in big passes
05:36 geoffb nodnod
05:36 geoffb Or at least, you shouldn't.  :-)
05:37 stevan yeah I used the oreilly.com account,.. since it was work didnt want to bother him if he was on vaca
05:37 geoffb He may have gone off again, but I believe he was back as of a week ago
05:37 stevan ah,.. ok
05:37 geoffb Of course, he could be backlogged
05:37 stevan well we will see,.. I am no rush :)
05:38 stevan it has always seemed to me though that Perl was at least as good as Smalltalk, LISP, etc
05:38 stevan in it's own way of course
05:38 geoffb . . . especially if, like me, you write much slower than you type.  So a few thousands words take many hours.
05:39 stevan I tend to blurt out a few hundred words,.. then refactor
05:39 stevan a couple lawn movings later,.. and I am done :)
05:40 geoffb When I was in school, I was a one pass guy.  Tanked for a while, then wrote straight from stream of consciousness.  Now I always outline first for anything over about 100 words
05:40 geoffb heh
05:40 * stevan went to art school,.. you dont really write many papers there
05:41 geoffb Oh?  What was your focus?
05:41 stevan I dont think I ever wrote an actual "paper" in my life
05:42 stevan Fine Art Painting,.. I did 2 years and decided to just learn to wait tables and save my parent some $$
05:42 geoffb I tried to avoid them.  I found only a couple teachers in my life who could actually mark up a paper worth a damn -- most of them just looked to see if you could spell and complete a sentence.
05:43 stevan ok, time for me to go to bed ....
05:43 stevan good talking to you geoffb
05:43 geoffb My favorite language teacher had a policy that all papers should have approximately the same amount of red ink . . . because everyone can improve.
05:43 geoffb you too!
05:43 geoffb have a good sleep
05:43 stevan :D
05:44 stevan *sigh* school,.. I never quite understood it
05:44 svnbot6 r7213 | Darren_Duncan++ | /modules/Rosetta-Incubator : Added all 15 initial core modules under lib/, though each is currently just a copy of the same template internally; Added t/00_Compile.t, which checks that all 15 would compile and are the right versions; Added usual svn props for all
05:44 geoffb heh
05:46 Amnesiac has joined #perl6
05:46 evalbot_7212 has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
05:46 evalbot_7213 has joined #perl6
05:54 dduncan seen mugwump
05:54 jabbot dduncan: mugwump was seen 33 days 1 hours 37 minutes 54 seconds ago
05:59 rafl geoffb: I'm currently about to rework the parrot build system for that. Waiting for the comitter bit currently.
05:59 rafl geoffb: Why?
06:01 geoffb curiosity, I guess.
06:01 geoffb Partly because I just built a new dev machine, and didn't feel like syncing parrot again.  :-)
06:02 putter stevan: multi methods.. are external to mm2?
06:03 dduncan I'm having a SVN problem, regarding a project on a *different* server than Pugs, and I'm not sure if its at my end or the other end
06:03 geoffb putter, it will probably be a while, stevan just headed off to bed about 20 min ago
06:03 putter ah
06:03 putter thanks
06:03 geoffb dduncan, is it HTTP?  You could just hit it from a browser and see if it's up.
06:03 geoffb putter, sure, np
06:04 dduncan everything works fine but committing
06:04 dduncan on commit, it says: The OPTIONS request returned invalid XML in the response: XML parse error at line 1: no element found
06:04 putter good night &
06:04 geoffb night, putter
06:04 putter has quit IRC ("Leaving")
06:04 geoffb dduncan, odd, that
06:05 geoffb Using svn client, or svk?
06:05 dduncan It's mugwump's server, and I tried asking him, but he's not around in this last half day
06:05 geoffb nodnod
06:05 dduncan the client is SVN 1.1.3, the server is SVN 1.1.4
06:05 dduncan same one I've been using for the last 2 months
06:05 geoffb wierd.
06:05 geoffb Sorry man, I've got nothin'.
06:05 dduncan thanks anyway
06:15 brentdax has joined #perl6
06:16 meppl guten morgen
06:16 * brentdax waves.
06:16 geoffb morning, meppl
06:16 geoffb morning, brentdax
06:16 meppl good morning geoffb
06:18 dduncan geoffb, fyi, I did more testing and found that a different project on the same server would still commit, suggesting that the problem is specific to the first project, and not just the server or client
06:19 geoffb interesting
06:19 dduncan I left more messages for mugwump, and perhaps he can check for corruption on the server side
06:19 geoffb misconfiguration or corruption in the repo, maybe.
06:19 dduncan I had done a clean svn checkout between the first and second instances of the same problem
06:19 geoffb nodnod
06:20 dduncan anyway, I'm going to bed, goodnight
06:20 nothingmuch has joined #perl6
06:20 nothingmuch morning
06:24 geoffb gnight, dduncan
06:24 geoffb gmorning, nothingmuch
06:24 nothingmuch hi ho
06:25 geoffb what's on the agenda for today, nothingmuch?  Blondie?
06:26 Khisanth Brunette! :)
06:27 geoffb Mmmm, Blondie . . .
06:27 * geoffb searches for Best of Blondie in his collection
06:28 nothingmuch today - work
06:28 nothingmuch there's a holiday soon
06:28 nothingmuch i've been learning lots of type stuff
06:28 nothingmuch (though there is still no tapl =(  )
06:28 nothingmuch i am getting a semi clear picture on Milner type inference
06:29 nothingmuch and I hope I can implement that WRT luqui's theory tuples
06:29 geoffb nodnod
06:29 nothingmuch and then i hope I can make it partial
06:29 geoffb Rosh Hashana?  (forgive my spelling)
06:29 nothingmuch yep
06:29 nothingmuch spelling is good
06:29 nothingmuch i think it is, anyway
06:30 * nothingmuch never really knows... there's so much of them this time of year
06:30 geoffb OOC, what is the work week in Israel?
06:30 nothingmuch sun-thu inclusive
06:30 * geoffb 's guess was correct then
06:36 dduncan has quit IRC ()
06:55 _jql is now known as jql
07:08 nothingmuch given $luqui.svn { when Broken { $nothingmuch.complain } }
07:08 evalbot_7213 has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
07:08 evalbot_7214 has joined #perl6
07:11 svnbot6 r7214 | brentdax++ | Cipher API for cryptographic ciphers:
07:11 svnbot6 r7214 | brentdax++ |   * Cipher base class, including docs
07:11 svnbot6 r7214 | brentdax++ |   * Cipher::Caesar for shift ciphers (including rot13)
07:11 svnbot6 r7214 | brentdax++ |   * Tests for Cipher::Caesar
07:11 svnbot6 r7214 | brentdax++ | To come: Cipher::Stream and Cipher::Block base classes, docs for Cipher::Caesar, more tests, real ciphers.
07:31 Aankhen`` has joined #perl6
07:34 evalbot_7214 has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
07:34 evalbot_7215 has joined #perl6
07:36 svnbot6 r7215 | luqui++ | Wrote intro to theory.pod.
07:45 Aankh|Clone has joined #perl6
07:47 * nothingmuch pings luqui
07:56 erg_ has joined #perl6
07:56 erg has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
07:56 erg_ is now known as erg
08:00 erg has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
08:01 erg has joined #perl6
08:03 Aankhen`` has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
08:06 nothingmuch http://archive.cs.uu.nl/pub/RUU/​CS/techreps/CS-2004/2004-037.pdf
08:07 * nothingmuch thinks that L::AG will be used to infer blondie's types
08:07 nothingmuch it's essentially a middle-order traversal of the tree
08:07 nothingmuch with some simple replacement
08:07 erg has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
08:11 r0nny has joined #perl6
08:15 iblechbot has joined #perl6
08:20 Aankh|Clone is now known as Aankhen```
08:20 Aankhen``` is now known as Aankhen``
08:20 Aankhen`` has quit IRC ("Look ma, no script!")
08:21 Aankhen`` has joined #perl6
08:41 nothingmuch yummy: ∀α. ∀β. α → β
08:51 sili .
08:57 rafl geoffb: You asked about debianisation of parrot lately. Do you want to help me with that?
09:00 gaal brentdax: ping
09:21 larsen has joined #perl6
09:31 penk has joined #perl6
09:37 brentdax has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
09:40 brentdax has joined #perl6
09:55 lao has joined #perl6
09:58 nothingmuch has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
10:01 nothingmuch has joined #perl6
10:06 nothingmuch has quit IRC (Client Quit)
10:06 nothingmuch has joined #perl6
10:23 feng has joined #perl6
10:50 iblechbot has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
11:08 iblechbot has joined #perl6
11:31 svnbot6 r7216 | iblech++ | * Usual svn props.
11:31 svnbot6 r7216 | iblech++ | * util/svnlog2graph.pl: The scaling is adjusted automatically now.
11:31 svnbot6 r7216 | iblech++ | * STATUS: Minor updates WRT MM2.
11:33 evalbot_7215 has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
11:33 evalbot_7216 has joined #perl6
11:52 wolverian has joined #perl6
11:53 vladtz has joined #perl6
11:54 evalbot_7216 has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
11:54 evalbot_7217 has joined #perl6
11:55 svnbot6 r7217 | iblech++ | ext/Config-Tiny:
11:55 svnbot6 r7217 | iblech++ | * t/basic.t: s/ok !.../dies_ok {...}/
11:55 svnbot6 r7217 | iblech++ | * Config::Tiny: Removed dead code (a pugsbug was fixed).
11:55 svnbot6 r7217 | iblech++ | This means Config-Tiny's tests pass again.
11:58 penk has quit IRC ("Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/")
11:58 penk has joined #perl6
12:01 masak is it possible to force list context in perl 6?
12:02 nothingmuch yes
12:02 nothingmuch * does that
12:02 masak thx, i'll try it
12:02 nothingmuch if it doesn't work post the code, maybe we can figure it out
12:02 * nothingmuch wishes luqui would fix his svn  already
12:03 nothingmuch i have a nice, shiney, failing tests for him to fix =)
12:07 pasteling "masak" at 130.238.83.176 pasted "I have a problem with context in the calculate_n() method" (73 lines, 2.3K) at http://sial.org/pbot/13409
12:07 masak * didn't work :(
12:08 masak help appreciated
12:08 nothingmuch masak: got a line number?
12:08 nothingmuch oh, calculate_n
12:09 masak yes, the reverse call, more specifically
12:09 nothingmuch reverse is from prelude, right?
12:09 masak i don't know
12:09 nothingmuch is it forcing list context on calculate_z? or is it returning a scalar?
12:09 nothingmuch okay
12:10 nothingmuch i don't have a working pugs ATM
12:10 nothingmuch byt try this:
12:10 nothingmuch @.n = $reversed_pattern.calculate_z();
12:10 nothingmuch say @.n;
12:10 nothingmuch and then @.n = reverse @.n;
12:10 masak oki, will try that
12:10 masak brb
12:10 nothingmuch so that we know for sure who is the guilty party
12:10 nothingmuch then we may want to fix revere, or alternatively, provide a new test case for pugs
12:12 masak ah! @.n is a one-element list all the time
12:12 svnbot6 r7218 | iblech++ | ext/Set:
12:12 svnbot6 r7218 | iblech++ | * Set::Hash: s/sub infix:<...> is export/multi *infix:<...>/
12:12 svnbot6 r7218 | iblech++ | * t/overload.t: Removed a now-obsolete pugsbug workaround.
12:12 svnbot6 r7218 | iblech++ | This means Set's tests pass again, and, as some modules depend on Set, they
12:12 svnbot6 r7218 | iblech++ | should work again as well.
12:12 frodo72 has joined #perl6
12:13 nothingmuch okay, so it's time to debug calculate_z =)
12:13 masak yes
12:13 rafl How to declare class methods?
12:13 masak hm, "return @.z" seems like the right thing to me...
12:14 nothingmuch rafl: hmm.. good question
12:15 evalbot_7217 has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
12:15 nothingmuch since overriding 'method new' seems to work, i guess you go with that
12:15 evalbot_7218 has joined #perl6
12:15 nothingmuch but ask stevan
12:15 nothingmuch masak: it does seem right
12:15 nothingmuch try return [@.z]
12:15 nothingmuch just to be sure
12:15 masak oki
12:16 masak still same problem
12:16 nothingmuch hmm =(
12:16 nothingmuch say want(); before the return
12:17 masak Scalar ((mkType "Scalar"))
12:17 nothingmuch okay
12:17 nothingmuch now, try this:.
12:17 nothingmuch @.n = reverse $reversed_pattern.calculate_z();
12:18 nothingmuch return @.n;
12:18 rafl nothingmuch: method methodname(Class $class: ...) {...} seems to do the job.
12:18 nothingmuch and see if it prints the same
12:18 masak nothingmuch: oki
12:18 nothingmuch rafl: hmm... sounds right
12:18 nothingmuch although $class might not necessarily be Class ;-)
12:18 rafl Err, Why?
12:18 brentdax has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
12:18 nothingmuch you can override it
12:18 rafl What does ::?CLASS mean, btw?
12:19 nothingmuch ::?CLASS::Bar is Foo::Bar if $?CLASS eq "Foo"
12:19 rafl nothingmuch: Doesn't every class somehow inherit from 'Class'?
12:19 nothingmuch it's something you can put in a namespace directly
12:19 nothingmuch rafl: no... but i'm guessing for sanity every class at least does Class ;-)
12:19 nothingmuch i'm just being silly though, don't listen to me
12:19 rafl Aye. :-)
12:20 nothingmuch (btw, in which case methodname (Class $class: ...) will still work
12:20 masak nothingmuch: the want() is now "List (Any)" but the end result is still a scalar "0 0 0 4 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 21"
12:21 nothingmuch masak: style question - why do you say ./index_of_first_mismatch(substr(...\n<lots of whitespace>) and not ./index_of_first_mismatch(\n<only 4 more spaces> ?
12:21 nothingmuch hmm
12:21 nothingmuch okay
12:21 nothingmuch that's a good thing
12:21 nothingmuch say "@.z" in there, and make sure it's right
12:21 nothingmuch oh wait
12:21 nothingmuch sorry
12:21 nothingmuch @.z has 21 elems, right?
12:21 nothingmuch okay... say @.n and +@.n and make sure they're OK
12:21 masak nothingmuch: i wanted to vertically align the arguments
12:21 nothingmuch and say want in calculate_n
12:22 masak but i see they have become misaligned anyway
12:22 scook0 has quit IRC ("Leaving")
12:22 nothingmuch masak: they're still vertically aligned with a \n, but it's more space efficient IMHO
12:22 masak nothingmuch: ok, i'll try that
12:22 nothingmuch but nevermind, it's not really an issue
12:22 nothingmuch wait
12:22 svnbot6 r7219 | iblech++ | Recurrence:
12:22 svnbot6 r7219 | iblech++ | * Set::Symbols: Again, s/sub infix:<...> is export/multi *infix:<...>/
12:22 svnbot6 r7219 | iblech++ | This means Recurrence's and DateTime-Set's tests pass again.
12:22 nothingmuch what is @.z?
12:23 brentdax has joined #perl6
12:23 nothingmuch who do 0, 0, 0, 4, 0, 0, 2, etc belong to? @.z? or something else?
12:23 masak nothingmuch: an array of integers, and yes, the numbers belong to it
12:23 masak the methods are calculating information about a pattern later to be used for searching
12:24 nothingmuch aye
12:24 nothingmuch okay, so isn't it the last element of @.z that's being screwed up?
12:24 nothingmuch @.z[$k] = ./index_of_first_mismatch(.... # bad ctx?
12:25 masak "say +@.z" from within calculate_z() prints 12
12:25 masak but "say +@.n" from within calculate_n() prints 0
12:25 nothingmuch hmm
12:25 nothingmuch odd
12:25 evalbot_7218 has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
12:25 nothingmuch try doing the reverse manually?
12:26 evalbot_7219 has joined #perl6
12:26 masak hmm :(
12:26 nothingmuch it's not that hard:
12:26 masak what do you mean about # bad ctx, btw?
12:26 nothingmuch i mean that maybe that assignment has a bad value
12:26 nothingmuch hmm
12:26 masak but calculate_z() works ok
12:27 nothingmuch yeah, i know that now =)
12:27 nothingmuch anywho
12:27 masak trying reverse manually :/
12:27 nothingmuch my @new; for @.n -> $x { unshift @new, $x }; say "@new"; @.n = @new; say "@.n"; return @new;
12:28 masak thx
12:28 masak i'll do it inline, though
12:29 masak @.n = (); for $reversed_pattern.z -> $x { unshift @.n, $x }
12:30 masak that worked
12:30 nothingmuch okay
12:30 nothingmuch lets find reverse
12:30 masak yes, let's :>
12:30 masak i want to have a quiet chat with reverse
12:31 nothingmuch it's not in the prelude
12:31 lao has left "Leaving"
12:31 nothingmuch Prim.hs
12:31 masak ok
12:31 masak a few weeks ago i finally understood the subtleties of reverse in p5
12:32 masak now i'm being bitten by what seems like reverse bugs in p6...
12:32 nothingmuch hehe
12:32 masak nothingmuch: i don't read haskell very well
12:32 nothingmuch this is no subtlety... it's a bug =)
12:32 nothingmuch masak: add some tests for reverse if you like
12:32 nothingmuch i'll  try to crack it
12:32 masak ok, i'll try and make a minimal test case
12:33 nothingmuch t/builtins/lists/reverse.t
12:33 coral .g "focused LEDs"
12:33 nothingmuch i'm guessing it's not imposing the right context
12:33 masak ?eval my $a = (12, 34); reverse $a
12:33 evalbot_7219 '43 21'
12:33 coral oh, i'm sorry, ww
12:33 masak is this right?
12:34 nothingmuch aha
12:34 nothingmuch that stringifies
12:34 masak yes
12:34 nothingmuch ?eval my $a = (12, 34); list reverse $a
12:34 evalbot_7219 ([12, 34])
12:34 nothingmuch phoeey
12:34 masak :)
12:34 masak it's congruent with the annoying behaviour in my program
12:35 nothingmuch ?eval sub foo { my $a = (12, 34); return my @n = reverse $a }; my @m = foo(); @m;
12:35 evalbot_7219 Error: No compatible subroutine found: "&my"
12:35 nothingmuch ?eval sub foo { my $a = (12, 34); my @n;  return @n = reverse $a }; my @m = foo(); @m;
12:35 evalbot_7219 [[12, 34]]
12:35 nothingmuch blech
12:35 masak indeed
12:35 nothingmuch what was actually the problem?
12:35 masak that reverse stringifies
12:35 nothingmuch i mean, what was the last thing we tried before it succeeded?
12:35 masak hand-code reverse
12:36 nothingmuch no, one step earlier
12:36 masak uh... (backlogging)
12:36 nothingmuch i didn't see the code, so i may have lost synch
12:36 masak printing the numifications of the @.z and @.n values
12:37 masak which were 12 and 0, respectively
12:38 evalbot_7219 has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
12:38 svnbot6 r7220 | iblech++ | * t/builtins/math/rounders.t: skip all tests undef PIL2JS and PIL-Run (no eval).
12:38 svnbot6 r7220 | iblech++ | * ext/MIME-Base64/t/Base64.t: Temporarily skip all tests so smoke loops
12:38 svnbot6 r7220 | iblech++ |   have a chance of finishing again; it seems to be a Parrot-related issue
12:38 svnbot6 r7220 | iblech++ |   anyway.
12:38 svnbot6 r7220 | iblech++ | * Pugs.Parser: Extremely minor cosmetic fix.
12:38 svnbot6 r7220 | iblech++ | * Added the standard shebang line to tests.
12:39 evalbot_7220 has joined #perl6
12:39 masak i think we did $reversed_pattern.calculate_z(); @.n = reverse $reversed_pattern.z; return @.n;
12:40 masak ?eval my @z = (12, 34); my @n = reverse @z; say @n
12:40 evalbot_7220 3412 bool::true
12:40 masak this works fine
12:41 nothingmuch ?eval class { Foo { }
12:41 evalbot_7220 Error:  unexpected "{" expecting term postfix, operator, ":", ",", postfix conditional, postfix loop, postfix iteration, ";", "}" or end of input
12:41 masak maybe it's the access method...
12:41 nothingmuch ?eval class Foo { has @.n; method foo { (1, 2, 3) }; method bar { return @.n = reverse ./foo } }
12:41 evalbot_7220 undef
12:41 nothingmuch ?eval class Foo { has @.n; method foo { (1, 2, 3) }; method bar { return @.n = reverse ./foo } } Foo.new.bar;
12:41 evalbot_7220 Error: No compatible subroutine found: "&foo"
12:41 nothingmuch ?eval class Foo { has @.n; method foo () { (1, 2, 3) }; method bar { return @.n = reverse ./foo } } Foo.new.bar;
12:41 evalbot_7220 Error: No compatible subroutine found: "&foo"
12:42 nothingmuch ?eval class Foo { has @.n; method foo () { (1, 2, 3) }; method bar { return @.n = reverse $?SELF.foo } } Foo.new.bar;
12:42 evalbot_7220 \'3 2 1'
12:42 nothingmuch ?eval class Foo { has @.n; method foo () { (1, 2, 3) }; method bar { return @.n = reverse $?SELF.foo } } my @n = Foo.new.bar; say @n; say +@n;
12:42 evalbot_7220 3 2 1 1 bool::true
12:42 nothingmuch aha
12:42 masak ?eval class Foo { has @.z; } my $f = Foo.new; $f.z = (12, 34); my @n = reverse $f.z; @n
12:42 evalbot_7220 [[12, 34]]
12:42 nothingmuch it makes one concatenated thingy
12:42 masak yes
12:42 nothingmuch okay, i'm adding my test case
12:43 masak nothingmuch++
12:43 nothingmuch windows is making my head hurt
12:43 masak i know, it tends to do that
12:44 masak ?eval class Foo { has @.z = (12, 34); } my $f = Foo.new; my @n = reverse $f.z; @n
12:44 evalbot_7220 Error:  unexpected "=" expecting trait, "handles", ";" or "}"
12:44 masak ah
12:45 masak ?eval class Foo { has @.z; } my $f = Foo.new(:z(12, 34)); my @n = reverse $f.z; @n
12:45 evalbot_7220 [34, 12]
12:45 masak ah-ha!
12:45 masak oh :) that's actually correct...
12:45 nothingmuch =)
12:45 nothingmuch i think the problem is the cxt passing
12:45 masak ok
12:46 masak i suspected that too, but i don't seem to find it and you already have, so...
12:46 masak besides, my program works now
12:46 masak thx
12:48 nothingmuch isn't
12:48 nothingmuch my @n = do {
12:48 nothingmuch   (1, 2, 3)
12:48 nothingmuch }
12:48 nothingmuch say @n;
12:48 nothingmuch supposed to work?
12:48 nothingmuch i remember an S or an A saying that }\s*?\n does not require a ;
12:49 masak me too, vaguely
12:49 masak but add one for clarity anyway :)
12:50 nothingmuch it's a syntax error in pugs
12:51 nothingmuch added another test
12:54 evalbot_7220 has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
12:54 evalbot_7222 has joined #perl6
12:54 svnbot6 r7221 | nothingmuch++ |  r8773@syeeda:  nothingmuch | 2005-10-02 14:45:15 +0200
12:54 svnbot6 r7221 | nothingmuch++ |  maskak++ 's reverse bug
12:54 svnbot6 r7222 | nothingmuch++ | log want()s all around masak++ 's bug, and test that they are all List (Any)
12:55 rafl How to declare private class variables?
12:55 rafl As well as public ones.
12:58 gaal rafl: class Foo; has $:a_public_var; has $.a_public_var;
12:59 masak gaal: you mean $:a_private_var;
13:01 rafl gaal: Thought that's the way to define instance variables.
13:02 masak rafl: ah, use my and our for class variables
13:02 rafl Ah, OK.
13:02 masak see S12
13:03 nothingmuch no prefix needed, btw
13:03 gaal oh, *class* vars, oops, right.
13:03 gaal obviously what i need is to finish this coffee.
13:03 masak my generates access methods, our doesn't
13:04 masak ...i think
13:04 * nothingmuch is going to ask his boss to not do windows work
13:04 nothingmuch it's really frustrating
13:05 nothingmuch every time I think i finally managed to simplify things so they are not a big conglomerate of special cases, it turns out there is yet another catch
13:08 * rafl just started porting XML::SAX, if anyonce cares.
13:10 masak rafl: will you use it for something afterwards?
13:10 desrever has joined #perl6
13:11 rafl masak: XML-RPC would be nice to have. Of course there are lots of other things to use an XML parser for. Jabber/XMPP for example.. :-)
13:13 rafl Hm, how to call class methods? ::Foo::Bar.meth() doesn't work for me.
13:14 masak rafl: xslt, too :)
13:14 rafl masak: Of course!
13:14 masak rafl: that seems to be the reasonable way... isn't that how new is called?
13:15 rafl I have class XML::SAX-0.01; method load_parsers(Class $class: Str $?dir, Str $?file) { ... }; and do ::XML::SAX.load_parsers();
13:20 r0nny has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
13:22 saorge has joined #perl6
13:22 rafl Hm, something about optional arguments seems to be broken.
13:23 rafl XML::SAX.load_parsers("foo", "bar") works.
13:23 saorge has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
13:23 saorge_ has joined #perl6
13:23 saorge_ has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
13:23 saorge has joined #perl6
13:24 * rafl wonders how File::Spec can work. It uses quite similar code.
13:25 nothingmuch has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
13:38 rafl Is there already a test for class methods with optional arguments? If not, where should it go? t/oo/methods/class.t ?
13:50 nothingmuch has joined #perl6
13:51 * nothingmuch arrives at home
13:58 rantanplan_ has joined #perl6
14:00 nothingmuch luqui! wake up!
14:01 rafl Hm. File::Spec.splitpath("/foo/bar") returns <obj:Module>. Why?
14:01 nothingmuch shouldd it really be done as class methods?
14:01 nothingmuch this interface issue has always bothered me about File::Spec
14:01 nothingmuch i don't understand what's so bad about calling File::Spec::splitpath
14:02 nothingmuch but it does hinder the user's ability to import, and makes the code yucky
14:02 rafl Hm, use File::Spec <splitpath>; splitpath("foo") works.
14:03 rafl Calling File::Spec::spitpath doesn't.
14:04 nothingmuch how is it documented to work/
14:06 rafl It's not documented how to call it without importing the subs.
14:07 nothingmuch hmm
14:07 nothingmuch beh. File::Spec is a horrible interface =(
14:07 nothingmuch it should have a .new
14:07 nothingmuch that is, File::Spec is a factory
14:08 nothingmuch and it creates a File::Spec::Unix, or File::Spec::Win32 based on $?OS
14:08 nothingmuch 'use File::Spec' should export functions that call these methods on a singleton
14:08 nothingmuch based on $?OS
14:08 rafl You're welcome to rework it. :-)
14:09 nothingmuch anyway, File::Spec::Unix etc is sub yadda
14:09 nothingmuch so File::Spc::splitpath *should* work
14:09 nothingmuch you know what? no need for objects
14:09 rafl No compatible subroutine found: "&File::Spec::splitpath"
14:09 nothingmuch the current version is actually good enough
14:10 nothingmuch oh wait
14:10 stevan rafl: File::Spec was one of the early modules ported,.. and it is probably suffering from neglect
14:10 nothingmuch that's because of the horrible hack at the top
14:10 stevan have you ran the test suite? that should spotlight issues
14:11 nothingmuch rafl: okay, one idea is to hack File::Spec so that it loads the right one to itself and to it's caller
14:11 nothingmuch try to paste the if($?OS eq "MSWin32") part under File::Spec-0.0.1 too
14:16 rafl Well, simply importing everything I need is enough for me, currently.
14:16 nothingmuch the issue is that File::Spec doesn't really have any functions
14:17 nothingmuch it just delegates to the module that it loads
14:17 nothingmuch so that importing goes to it instead of to File::Spec
14:17 nothingmuch but it doesn't contain any functions
14:18 rafl Ah.
14:19 rafl ?eval class Foo { my constant $:bar = 42; method bar { $:bar } } Foo.new.bar.say
14:19 evalbot_7222 bool::true
14:19 rafl Shoudn't that say '42'?
14:20 nothingmuch ?eval class Foo { my constant $:bar = 42; method bar { $:bar } } Foo.new.bar
14:20 evalbot_7222 \undef
14:20 nothingmuch that's what's confusing you... it printed the result of the say
14:21 nothingmuch ?eval class Foo { my $:bar = 42; method bar { $:bar } } Foo.new.bar
14:21 evalbot_7222 \undef
14:21 rafl Well, \undef is false nevertheless, isn't it?
14:21 nothingmuch odd
14:21 nothingmuch ?eval class Foo { my $:bar = 42; method bar { $:bar = 42; $:bar } } Foo.new.bar
14:21 evalbot_7222 \42
14:21 nothingmuch hmm... i'm guessing the first assignment never happens
14:21 nothingmuch ?eval class Foo { my $:bar = do { say "evaling"; 42 }; method bar { $:bar } } Foo.new.bar
14:21 evalbot_7222 evaling \undef
14:22 nothingmuch phhoey
14:22 nothingmuch lets see if it's the closure that's not sharing
14:22 nothingmuch ?eval class Foo { my $:bar; method bar { $:bar } method set { $:bar = 42; $?SELF }} Foo.new.set.bar
14:22 evalbot_7222 Error: No compatible subroutine found: "&bar"
14:22 nothingmuch ?eval class Foo { my $:bar; method bar { $:bar } method set { $:bar = 42; $?SELF }} my $x = Foo.new; $x.set; $x.bar;
14:23 evalbot_7222 \42
14:23 nothingmuch this seems like a bug
14:23 nothingmuch i'm guessing the first $:bar container goes out of scope some how
14:26 rafl Could you please write a test for it?
14:31 stevan has quit IRC ("Leaving")
14:31 svnbot6 r7223 | stevan++ | Perl6::MetaModel 2.0 -
14:31 svnbot6 r7223 | stevan++ | * some work on Synopsis 12.5
14:31 svnbot6 r7223 | stevan++ | * added lib6/ directory and began a *very rough* translation of the
14:31 svnbot6 r7223 | stevan++ |   meta-model to Perl 6 code
14:31 evalbot_7222 has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
14:31 evalbot_7223 has joined #perl6
14:35 larsen_ has joined #perl6
14:41 joepurl has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
14:41 rafl Does someone wants to port Config::Tiny to real OO and maybe to add read_string and read_fh methods?
14:42 nothingmuch you completely misunderstood Config::Tiny!
14:42 nothingmuch it's purpose is to be small
14:42 nothingmuch so that it loads extra fast
14:42 nothingmuch it doesn't need any features
14:42 nothingmuch that stuff will just add "bloat"
14:43 rafl OK, could someone please write Config::Bloated? :-)
14:44 nothingmuch you should ask Damian to port Config::Std
14:44 rafl nothingmuch: The original Config::Tiny has a read_string method, btw.
14:44 rafl Ah, iblech already did it: http://tpe.freepan.org/repos/adam​k/Config-Tiny/lib/Config/Tiny.pm
14:44 rafl Why isn't that version used for pugs?
14:45 nothingmuch hmm
14:45 nothingmuch we forgot about freepan
14:45 nothingmuch ;-)
14:45 nothingmuch ingy: ping
14:53 larsen has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
15:01 desrever has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
15:10 rafl I want to what methods can be called on Arrays, but I can't find it in the Prelude. Where should I look for that?
15:15 flgr__ has joined #perl6
15:19 rafl I have an array of hashes: @a = ({Name => 'foo'}) and I want to add another hash as the value of a new hash key to the last hash in the array. How to do that? @array[-1]<Foo><key> = $val?
15:20 rafl It should look like ({Name => 'foo', Foo => {key => $val}) afterwards.
15:21 r0nny has joined #perl6
15:33 flgr_ has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
15:45 nothingmuch rafl: Prim.hs has some stuff
15:45 nothingmuch e.g. List::elems
15:45 nothingmuch i suspect this is handled very dynamically
15:46 nothingmuch as for the hash assignment - that sounds right
15:47 rafl nothingmuch: OK, how to do that if I wan't interpolation in the assignment? @array[-1]{Features}{$0} = {$1} seems to try to execute &Features.
15:48 nothingmuch either << >> or the french variant
15:48 nothingmuch or use {"Features"}
15:48 nothingmuch { no longer auto bareword }
15:49 nothingmuch @array[-1]<Features>{$0}
15:49 nothingmuch but that's ugly ;-)
15:49 nothingmuch i would use @array[-1]{'Features'}{$0} or @array[-1]<Features><<$0>>
15:49 nothingmuch but with french quotes, since I like unicode
15:49 rafl nothingmuch: That gives me [{('Features' => {.}), ('Name' => 'foo')}]. $0 and $1 are correctly set.
15:50 nothingmuch odd
15:50 nothingmuch what about @array[-1]<Features> = { $0 => $1 } ?
15:50 nothingmuch ?eval my @array = { Name => 'foo' }; @array[-1]<Features><key> = "va";
15:50 evalbot_7223 Error: Can't modify constant item: VUndef
15:50 nothingmuch ?eval my @array = { Name => 'foo' }; @array[-1]<Features><key> = "val"; @array;
15:50 evalbot_7223 Error: Can't modify constant item: VUndef
15:51 nothingmuch ?eval my @array = { Name => 'foo' }; @array[-1]<Features>= { key = "val"; @array;
15:51 evalbot_7223 Error:  unexpected end of input expecting end of input, ";", statements or "}"
15:51 nothingmuch ?eval my @array = { Name => 'foo' }; @array[-1]<Features>= { key => "val"}; @array;
15:51 evalbot_7223 Error: Can't modify constant item: VUndef
15:51 nothingmuch bah
15:51 nothingmuch ?eval my @array = ({ Name => 'foo' }); @array[-1]<Features> = { key => "val"}; @array;
15:51 evalbot_7223 Error: Can't modify constant item: VUndef
15:51 nothingmuch ?eval my @array = ({ Name => 'foo' }); @array[-1]{'Features'} = { key => "val"}; @array;
15:51 evalbot_7223 Error: Can't modify constant item: VUndef
15:51 nothingmuch ?eval my @array; @array[0] =  { Name => 'foo' }; @array[-1]{'Features'} = { key => "val"}; @array;
15:51 evalbot_7223 [{('Features' => {('key' => 'val')}), ('Name' => 'foo')}]
15:52 nothingmuch ?eval my @array; @array[0] =  { Name => 'foo' }; @array[-1]<Features><key> = "val"; @array;
15:52 evalbot_7223 [{('Features' => {('key' => 'val')}), ('Name' => 'foo')}]
15:52 nothingmuch ?eval my @array; @array[0] =  { Name => 'foo' }; my $x = "key"; @array[-1]<Features>{$key} = "val"; @array;
15:52 evalbot_7223 Error: Undeclared variable: "$key"
15:52 nothingmuch ?eval my @array; @array[0] =  { Name => 'foo' }; my $x = "key"; @array[-1]<Features>{$x} = "val"; @array;
15:52 evalbot_7223 [{('Features' => {('key' => 'val')}), ('Name' => 'foo')}]
15:52 nothingmuch Works For Me™
15:53 nothingmuch (after many tries, admittedly ;-)
15:54 rafl nothingmuch: Hm, maybe you wan't to take a look at the code: http://pastebin.com/380603 - My code is nearly identical and doesn't work though.
15:55 nothingmuch line?
15:55 rafl nothingmuch: 48
15:56 nothingmuch can't think of anything =(
15:57 rafl Running XML::SAX.load_parsers.perl.say gives me that: \Class.new(('known_parsers' => [{('Features' => {.}), ('Name' => MkMatch {matchOk = True, matchFrom = 1, matchTo = 19, matchStr = "XML::SAX::PurePerl", matchSubPos = [], matchSubNamed = {}})}, {('Features' => {.}), ('Name' => MkMatch {matchOk = True, matchFrom = 1, matchTo = 16, matchStr = "XML::SAX::Expat", matchSubPos = [], matchSubNamed = {}})}, {('Features' => {.}), ('Name' => MkMatch {matc
15:58 * nothingmuch loves builtin Data::Dumper =)
15:58 rafl Well, it could be a bit more pretty, though.
15:59 nothingmuch i bet autrijus could be temped into using AGs to write a pretty printer ;-)
16:01 rafl I doubt that would fix my problem. ;-)
16:03 nothingmuch beh
16:03 nothingmuch ?eval {.}
16:03 evalbot_7223 Error:  unexpected "." expecting ";", statements or "}"
16:03 nothingmuch that sucks
16:03 nothingmuch it's not even .perl ;-)
16:06 rafl :-(
16:08 nothingmuch rafl: do you think you could reproduce that?
16:08 nothingmuch copy XML::SAX into a test
16:08 nothingmuch take away code till it stops working?
16:08 rafl nothingmuch: I'll try.
16:08 rafl nothingmuch: Where should that test go?
16:09 nothingmuch pugsbugs
16:13 dduncan has joined #perl6
16:20 rafl nothingmuch: Can you exaplain that error: *** Can't modify constant item: VUndef
16:20 rafl    at nested_hash.t line 28, column 33-59
16:20 rafl       nested_hash.t line 58, column 4-41
16:20 rafl       nested_hash.t line 58, column 1-42
16:20 rafl http://pastebin.com/380632
16:21 nothingmuch i'm guessing it's an out of bounds assignment
16:21 nothingmuch perhaps @config.push didn't work as expected
16:21 nothingmuch since [-1] returned a constant undef instead of a container (since there is no elem) it gave up
16:22 rafl @config.perl.say before the failing assignment gives me: [(('Name' => MkMatch {matchOk = True, matchFrom = 1, matchTo = 19, matchStr = "XML::SAX::PurePerl", matchSubPos = [], matchSubNamed = {}}))]
16:22 nothingmuch anyway, i need to go to dinner
16:22 nothingmuch blech
16:22 rafl Bye.
16:22 * nothingmuch doesn't know what to say
16:25 rafl Oh, nein.. ich hab' nur noch zwei Blaettchen und kann bis Dienstag nicht einkaufen gehen. Duh!
16:32 justatheory has joined #perl6
16:35 vladtz has quit IRC ("Leaving")
16:48 rlb3 has joined #perl6
16:50 ods15 has quit IRC ("Logic is a systematic method of coming to the wrong conclusion with confidence.")
17:21 * nothingmuch summons luqui once more
17:22 nothingmuch it's already noon over there, right?
17:33 ingy nothingmuch: eh?
17:33 nothingmuch nothing... /me was just noting that freepan needs more P.R.
17:33 nothingmuch how's that patch application coming along?
17:33 ingy ?
17:34 nothingmuch Test::Base ;-)
17:34 ingy sorry... where is the patch?
17:34 nothingmuch i forgot again
17:34 nothingmuch i'll regenerate
17:34 nothingmuch against .43
17:34 ingy mail to [email@hidden.address]
17:34 nothingmuch you get to integrate, since it took you so long
17:34 nothingmuch okay
17:35 ingy okay
17:35 ingy *kisses*&
17:40 nothingmuch sent
17:43 justatheory has quit IRC ()
17:54 rlb3 has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
17:55 rlb3 has joined #perl6
18:03 brentdax has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
18:04 rlb3 has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
18:06 rlb3 has joined #perl6
18:13 ods15 has joined #perl6
18:28 iblechbot has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
18:28 typester is now known as typeout
18:35 * Aankhen`` goes to sleep.
18:35 nothingmuch ciao
18:35 Aankhen`` G'night.
18:35 Aankhen`` has quit IRC ("DOS never says "EXCELLENT command or filename" [Time wasted online: 10hrs 14mins 21secs]")
18:35 Odin-LAP has joined #perl6
18:42 cognominal has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
18:44 cognominal has joined #perl6
19:05 Amnesiac has quit IRC ("Leaving")
19:17 iblechbot has joined #perl6
19:20 stevan has joined #perl6
19:29 geoffb rafl, sure, I've always wanted to learn more about Debian packaging.  What should I read to get (more) up to speed?
19:41 typeout is now known as typester
19:45 nothingmuch has quit IRC (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
19:46 cognominal has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
19:47 cognominal has joined #perl6
19:47 lao has joined #perl6
19:57 wolverian geoffb: http://www.debian.org/doc/manu​als/maint-guide/index.en.html
20:03 geoffb wolverian, anything else, or will it all be pointed to from there?
20:03 wolverian I'm not sure, I'm in the same process as you are - learning. :)
20:03 geoffb (and thanks for the link)
20:03 geoffb ah, OK
20:03 geoffb rafl, anything else to look for besides what wolverian just linked?
20:03 wolverian (looking into updating the debian irssi-snapshot from SVN)
20:04 geoffb (for when he gets back :-)
20:04 wolverian (which has dismally failed thus far.. :)
20:04 geoffb ah
20:04 * geoffb would like to debianize all of his code, and just host a package pool
20:04 geoffb but it
20:04 geoffb 's always been a low-priority task
20:04 geoffb FEK
20:10 iblechbot has quit IRC (Connection timed out)
20:33 svnbot6 r7224 | stevan++ | Perl6::MetaModel 2.0 -
20:33 svnbot6 r7224 | stevan++ | * added implementation of singleton methods using AUTOLOAD and Roles
20:33 svnbot6 r7224 | stevan++ |   to be honest, I really dont like it, however the more I read about
20:33 svnbot6 r7224 | stevan++ |   singleton methods, the more I think they need to actually be integrated
20:33 svnbot6 r7224 | stevan++ |   into the MM itself (it would make class-methods cleaner thats for sure)
20:33 evalbot_7223 has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
20:33 evalbot_7224 has joined #perl6
20:34 desrever has joined #perl6
20:38 wolverian geoffb: oh, you have code of your own? ;)
20:41 K has joined #perl6
20:43 K where is the official PAR website?
20:45 revdiablo search.cpan.org?
20:52 nothingmuch has joined #perl6
20:52 obra par.perl.org, but it got blown away recently in a disk outage
20:52 K i noticed, it appeared to be a chinese blog
20:52 K or something
20:52 r0nny has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
20:52 obra That's autrijus' girlfriend.
20:53 obra Likely, it's the only thing still live on that box
20:53 nothingmuch oh luqui where art thou
20:54 nothingmuch does anybody know to diagnose svn server errors?
20:54 nothingmuch luqui's svn says: Berkeley DB error: PROPFIND request failed on '/svn/misc': Could not open the requested SVN filesystem
20:54 nothingmuch sounds like a runaway lock to me... either that or data corruption
21:10 Conap has joined #perl6
21:10 rantanplan_ has quit IRC ("Leaving")
21:12 Conap has quit IRC ()
21:26 rafl geoffb: What link?
21:27 rafl geoffb: Fine. Let's talk about co-maintainership for pugs and parrot tommorow, OK?
21:28 geoffb rafl, OK
21:28 geoffb rafl, I've got a lot to learn, so you may need to do some teaching . . . .
21:29 rafl geoffb: That's fine with me.
21:29 geoffb wolverian, what, you're surprised?  I do occasionally do *something* of value, besides take care of my kids.  :-)
21:29 geoffb rafl, fair enough.
21:29 rafl geoffb: What did wolverian link? "22:04 < geoffb> rafl, anything else to look for besides what wolverian just linked?"
21:29 geoffb wolverian geoffb: http://www.debian.org/doc/manu​als/maint-guide/index.en.html
21:30 geoffb "Debian New Maintainers' Guide"
21:30 rafl geoffb: Well, as I last read the new-maint-guide it was kind of outdated and not very complete.
21:30 geoffb Oh, OK.
21:30 rafl geoffb: But it's a good starting point nevertheles.
21:30 revdiablo Heh, it's good to start out being out of date and incomplete?
21:31 geoffb Other places to look as well?  I tend to dive deep for a couple days at a time on something, so it's good to have a queue of stuff to read
21:32 geoffb I'll backlog . . .
21:32 * geoffb swaps back in "Watching Quantum Leap" task
21:32 SamB has joined #perl6
21:36 rafl geoffb: Well, the policy is always good to read. The whole new maintainers corner on debian.org/devel as well.
21:36 rafl geoffb: I'll send you some further links tomorrow. I'll take a bath now. Bye!
21:39 flgr__ is now known as flgr
21:54 desrever has quit IRC ("sleep")
21:56 geoffb thx, rafl . . . ttyl
21:57 justatheory has joined #perl6
22:01 nothingmuch has quit IRC (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
22:02 nothingmuch has joined #perl6
22:03 wolverian geoffb: oh, I was just comparing you to myself. I'm far too lazy to be productive. :)
22:05 dudley_ has joined #perl6
22:05 dudley_ rafl: ping
22:25 rafl dudley_: pong
22:26 dudley_ what are you planning to do with parrot's build system?
22:27 brentdax has joined #perl6
22:28 rafl dudley_: Well, changing it. Not sure how, yet. Currently it uses the MANIFEST to decide where files should be installed that's ought to change.
22:29 dudley_ I'm just curious becuase I was going to try to port parrot to VMS a long time ago, but the build system was too unixy for it to work at all
22:30 joao has joined #perl6
22:30 rafl dudley_: Well, what's the exactly the problem with VMS? We could write a new, more portable, build system together. It's ought to change anyway, because it doesn't support shared-lib builds and parallel builds very well.
22:30 sili i thought parrot was supposed to be portable?
22:30 dudley_ VMS doesn't have a 'make' that works
22:32 rafl sili: It's thought to be, but it isn't.
22:32 rafl dudley_: What does it use then?
22:32 dudley_ there's a makelike utility called mms
22:33 sili there goes my dream of parrot on win3.11
22:33 rafl Well, at least a LSB compliant version would be great.
22:33 * rafl goes to bed now. See you tomorrow.
22:33 dudley_ 'night
22:34 dduncan nighteynight
22:43 nothingmuch has quit IRC (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
22:48 dudley_ has quit IRC ()
23:03 Odin-LAP has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:13 dudley_ has joined #perl6
23:20 saorge{PuLa} has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:20 saorge{PuLa} has joined #perl6
23:21 saorge has quit IRC (Connection timed out)
23:42 joao has quit IRC (".")
23:56 frodo72 has quit IRC ("Ciao a tutti / bye to all")

| Channels | #perl6 index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo