Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2005-10-07

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 autrijus :)
00:00 Shillo geoffb: Failing to mount a share would confuse Visual Studio. -That- sucked.
00:01 lukhnos has joined #perl6
00:01 * Shillo helpfully tries to build with PUGS_EMBED, too...
00:01 geoffb clkao, btw, if you read my O'Reilly blog from wed, you may have noticed that SVK is the only VC client I said was "excellent"
00:01 joao svk assumes that we have a svn remote server, or am I wrong?
00:01 clkao i know :P
00:02 clkao joao: yes, it works best for that. but you can also branch from cvs or p4
00:02 cm has joined #perl6
00:02 Shillo I kinda like arch, except for a bit of a learning curve.
00:02 geoffb clkao, I hate SVK because I still have to have a darcs client . . . but I've said that before.  :-)
00:02 joao Southen_, geoffb need to convince his boss to use svn, I guess :)
00:03 joao s/Southen_/clkao
00:03 geoffb joao, $work = $contract.  Less sway there, since they can't bug me all the time for help for "free"
00:03 svnbot6 r7361 | autrijus++ | * install and register Pugs to cabal via "make install".
00:03 Shillo Still burps itself on missing parrot headers, then continues to build...
00:08 frey_ has joined #perl6
00:09 Shillo Built. I'm way too tired to check whether the parrot actually got embedded. :)
00:09 Shillo Night, all!
00:09 geoffb night, Shillo
00:09 autrijus night Shillo. thanks!
00:09 Shillo Actually PGE does run.
00:10 Shillo has quit IRC ("Leaving")
00:11 Amnesiac has quit IRC ("Leaving")
00:11 joao 5.8.1 is not supported?
00:12 autrijus joao: hm? I think it is supported, tho I'm not sure.
00:14 joao I just don't get the error, then :9
00:14 joao Generating precompiled Prelude... Can't exec "./pugs": No such file or directory at /System/Library/Perl/5.8.1/IPC/Open3.pm line 241.
00:17 joao oh well, i'll go to bed, good evening!
00:18 autrijus joao: the thing would be the error before the "Generating" line
00:18 autrijus good night :)
00:19 joao autrijus, I didn't have the latest svn release; I'm building again, let's see...
00:20 lao has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:20 autrijus oh ok... wait me a sec
00:21 autrijus please up to r7362
00:24 joao hmmmm. ok
00:25 svnbot6 r7362 | autrijus++ | * trigger rebuild for dist too.
00:25 joao I definitely have to update my environment :)
00:26 autrijus "make unoptimised" is your friend :)
00:26 joao I'm using it
00:26 autrijus (and it can't help that I just doubled the make time. temporarily though)
00:26 joao But I was refering to update development tools, for instance
00:26 autrijus ah.
00:26 joao ghc still 6.4
00:26 geoffb As a side note, new config.yml keys aren't added or mentioned by Makefile.PL.
00:26 joao perl 5.8.1 ;)
00:27 geoffb I moved my config.yml aside and reran Perl Makefile.PL to get the new keys, but people shouldn't have to think of that
00:27 autrijus geoffb: indeed.
00:27 autrijus geoffb: slap a -M protection to Makefile.PL?
00:27 autrijus -M __FILE__ against -M 'config.yml'
00:28 autrijus in config.yml
00:28 autrijus or compare it against util/config-template.yml
00:28 autrijus in inc/PugsBuild/Config.pm
00:28 autrijus improvise :)
00:28 geoffb autrijus, nodnod
00:28 geoffb Just started a build.  Going to see if that passed before mucking with anything
00:28 autrijus ok.
00:30 cm has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:30 svnbot6 r7363 | autrijus++ | * try to be a bit more portable with GNU ar.
00:31 cm has joined #perl6
00:41 joao still building :-)
00:42 traecer has joined #perl6
00:42 svnbot6 r7364 | autrijus++ | * switch to an autoconf-like format for Cabal building.
00:42 geoffb Perl 5 embedding causes build to explode
00:43 autrijus not surprisingly, but ack
00:43 joepurl has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
00:48 svnbot6 r7365 | autrijus++ | * bump version to 6.2.10 as release is imminient.
00:49 geoffb autrijus, I'm doing the -M hack and a little cleanup in the surrounding function.  Is there time to get it in before you cut?
00:50 autrijus sure
00:50 autrijus I need a sleep between this and 6.2.10.
00:50 autrijus ;)
00:51 autrijus and I'm still wrangling with cabal. close, though
00:51 autrijus mostly just don't want to double the maketime.
00:52 joao autrijus, for how long are you awake?
00:53 autrijus joao: I don't know, close to 24
00:53 joao autrijus++ # pugs is built!
00:53 autrijus joao: oooh
00:53 joao autrijus, you deserve some sleep :)
00:53 autrijus not going to do that without a working cabal :)
00:55 joao Being so many time awake would drive me crazy.
00:57 autrijus hm, what makes you think I'm not crazy :)
00:57 joao Oh, I forgot the "too" :) It would drive me crazy, too. :)
00:59 geoffb OK, tested and committed, now trying build sans PUGS_EMBED
00:59 svnbot6 r7366 | autrijus++ | * depend on "Win32" and "unix" packages correctly according to platform.
00:59 svnbot6 r7366 | autrijus++ | * verison normalization.
00:59 svnbot6 r7367 | geoffb++ | PugsBuild::Config: some cleanup in sub read, and warn if config.yml is older than template
01:01 * joao waves
01:01 joao has quit IRC (".")
01:02 * offby1 waves back
01:03 * autrijus waves
01:04 * theorbtwo particles.
01:07 nothingmuch oof, /me needs parametrized types in perl 5
01:07 larsen has quit IRC ("later")
01:07 nothingmuch it's nice that perl 5 can let you do all this stuff without too much effort
01:07 nothingmuch but it would be nice to get shortcuts occasionally
01:10 nothingmuch good night everyone
01:11 geoffb gnight, nm
01:14 theorbtwo G'night, nm.
01:18 rafl mugwump: What about the Debian package? I maintain it. 6.2.9 is in sid.
01:19 rafl geoffb: No matter. If you intend to do some work I can also add you as a co-maintainer with the next release.
01:20 mugwump rafl: I was just looking for something to play with my backporting system
01:20 geoffb rafl: Yeah, let's aim for the next release.
01:20 mugwump I have 11 x86 Debian distributions on my desktop with which to do this :)
01:21 rafl mugwump: A backport would be hard. You need ghc 6.4.
01:21 mugwump yes, I'd have to backport that, too
01:21 mugwump hmm, no parrot dependency?
01:22 geoffb mugwump, why do you have 11 x86 Debians on your desk?  Oh, do you mean VMs?
01:22 rafl geoffb: As I get my @d.o account the next week I'll do some experimental releases using svn snapshots. So there will be more (debian) releases soon.
01:22 mugwump well, there's Debian, and Ubuntu, and three distributions of each of those, and then 64 vs 32 bit
01:22 rafl mugwump: No. No parrot in Debian yet. I'm working on that, though.
01:23 geoffb rafl, good, gives me a chance to get $work beaten back
01:23 rafl :-)
01:24 cm has quit IRC ()
01:25 mugwump geoffb: they're not in VMs, just chroots with Linux-Vserver.org
01:26 rafl mugwump: btw, ask igloo. I remember he did a backport of ghc6 once.
01:26 rafl He's a regular on #haskell.
01:27 geoffb mugwump, ah, interesting.  So why did you do this?  Variant distro compat a job, or just a hobby?
01:27 autrijus rafl: heads-up: we no longer install any of the src/*
01:28 autrijus rafl: does Debian package Cabal separately from GHC as gentoo does?
01:28 mugwump I just got sick of various packages I wanted not being in the particular flavour of debian I have to work with...
01:30 rafl autrijus: Yay!
01:30 geoffb By "have to work with", I'm assuming you do a lot of Debian $work or $contracts . . .
01:30 rafl autrijus: But you still install perl5/ as it is, do you?
01:30 rafl autrijus: No, cabal is in the ghc6 package.
01:31 mugwump geoffb: the OS development company I work for are a debian shop (with an openbsd garnish)
01:32 geoffb cool
01:32 geoffb what company?
01:32 mugwump catalyst.net.nz
01:33 rafl autrijus: I really hate the fact that the Makefiles.PLs and t/ests are installed for each perl5/ module.
01:34 rafl autrijus: Especially for those who a) aren't perl5 modules and b) aren't useful at all when being installed (org.perl6.metamodel).
01:34 autrijus rafl: I really hate them too.
01:34 autrijus rafl: better suggestions welcome.
01:34 rafl autrijus: Put it into lib/?
01:34 autrijus rafl: can't; they are not really perl5 libs as such
01:34 rafl autrijus: And the tests into t/.
01:35 rafl autrijus: I think they are. MM2 for example could also be used without pugs. Others as well.
01:35 autrijus hrm.
01:35 rafl autrijus: Alternatively you could put them into /usr/share/pugs/perl5.
01:35 autrijus rafl: currently they are installed under pugs sitelib
01:35 rafl (the built version of course)
01:36 autrijus rafl: I guess we can reclassify them so only the ones really used during -BJS and -BPugs
01:36 geoffb mugwump, looks decent, from the weblies at least
01:36 autrijus gets installed
01:36 rafl Yes, please.
01:36 rafl But not under /usr/share/perl6/5.8/perl5. Think of 'use perl5::Perl6::MetaModel, etc.
01:37 autrijus I agree.
01:38 autrijus but chaining to other Makefile.PL for perl5 libs did not work so well last time
01:38 autrijus and to release them all separately to CPAN is... probably not for this release, as discussed with Stevan.
01:38 autrijus so the lightweight approach would be make out a manifest of what to copy.
01:38 rafl Why do their makefiles need to be changed?
01:38 autrijus or what to left out, etc. it's in util/src_to_blib.pl
01:39 autrijus rafl: many of them does not have makefiles.
01:39 rafl Pleas *DO* *NOT* *DO* the same crap as parrot does. It has a MANIFEST which says what needs to be installed in what place.
01:40 QtPlatypus rafl: What is wrong with that?
01:41 autrijus QtPlatypus: it makes adding new stuff a bit annoying.
01:41 autrijus yay I fixed the symbol table bug.
01:42 rafl What about let the "main makefile" go though each perl5/* directory, do perl Makefile.PL; make; and make install DESTDIR="pugsblib or something else that'll be installed into $PREFIX/share/pugs/perl5/"
01:42 * autrijus proceeds to cut build time in half
01:42 rafl QtPlatypus: Try to make a Debian package out of it and you'll see.
01:42 autrijus rafl: sure, go ahead with that. I'd just like to point out that the normal "subdirs" approach does not work
01:42 autrijus so you'd need to make up a rule
01:42 autrijus the reason for that is MakeMaker, in its infinite wisdom
01:42 autrijus put the subdir blib into the parent blib.
01:44 geoffb nice
01:44 rafl autrijus: Yes. Unfortunately I don't have that much free time to code on pugs. If I find some tomorrow, which I should, where to start hacking? I don't know exactly what the current makefile does to get everything built.
01:44 geoffb autrijus, "symbol table bug" whose fix "cut build time in half"?
01:45 autrijus rafl: the symtable bug was preventing us from linking cabal into main pugs
01:45 autrijus er
01:45 autrijus geoffb: the symtable bug was preventing us from linking cabal into main pugs
01:45 autrijus so I had to build each once
01:45 autrijus now it should be much simpler
01:45 autrijus rafl: nod... as I said, util/src_to_blib.pl is probably the place to hack.
01:45 geoffb ah, cool
01:46 autrijus "You may wish to check for new settings.
01:46 autrijus "
01:46 autrijus hm, not really helpful :)
01:46 * autrijus wonders if it should silently merge new keys.
01:46 autrijus { %$new_template, %$old_value }
01:46 autrijus probably yes. what you think?
01:47 rafl autrijus: It relies on MM to do the installation. I don't know if MM can handle it to install files somewhere outside of {SITE,PRIV,VENDOR,WHATEVER}LIB.
01:47 geoffb It was intended to be a quick hack . . . I only could spare enough time to hack and test what I did.  :-(
01:47 geoffb And yeah, that would be a nice thing.
01:47 autrijus rafl: it could; see install target in MAkefile.PL
01:47 geoffb But you should still tell people that new keys appeared.
01:48 rafl autrijus: Looks cool. I think I can hack something together tomorrow.
01:48 geoffb Otherwise a new key may come with a default they didn't like.
01:49 stevan has joined #perl6
01:49 svnbot6 r7368 | autrijus++ | * Unicode.C no longer linked with GHC 6.4.1.
01:49 svnbot6 r7368 | autrijus++ | * Fix the \\n tokenization bug (probably ghc bug) that
01:49 svnbot6 r7368 | autrijus++ |   renders primitive disappear when linked with cabal.
01:50 autrijus geoffb: no worries, I fixed
01:50 stevan hey autrijus :)
01:50 autrijus yo stevan.
01:50 autrijus rafl: cool!
01:50 geoffb geoffb-- # net 0 added value, sigh
01:51 stevan I managed to convince robkinyon that eigenclasses with implicit inheritance was the way to go
01:51 rafl btw, I talked to someone today who wants to write a PIL-Run for Ruby.
01:51 stevan however, he made some good points about not allowing class method inheritance  
01:52 stevan the idea that since class data itself is not inheritable,.. then you end up with methods without the corresponding state
01:52 autrijus rafl: ooh, ruby _backend_?
01:52 autrijus rafl: who?
01:52 autrijus geoffb: nope, that was very useful.
01:53 rafl autrijus: Timo Schneider. A fellow student.
01:53 autrijus excellent :) get him on irc?
01:53 stevan give that boy a committer bit!
01:53 geoffb & # Mmmm, dinner calls . . . .
01:54 rafl I'll push him to get an account on openfoundry tomorrow.
01:54 autrijus rafl: you can send an invitation to him :)
01:54 rafl autrijus: How?
01:54 autrijus (you are now metacommitter.)
01:54 autrijus rafl: log in to openfoundry first
01:54 autrijus then
01:54 autrijus http://rt.openfoundry.org/Foundry/Project/Admin/Members/?Queue=270
01:54 autrijus fill in his email on "Invite External Staff"
01:54 autrijus and voila.
01:55 svnbot6 r7369 | autrijus++ | * Merge old settings with new ones when a new config.yml template
01:55 svnbot6 r7369 | autrijus++ |   occurs, but still inform the user. geoffb++
01:55 autrijus geoffb: you too :)
01:56 rafl autrijus: I'm not an admin and can't visit that page therefor.
01:56 autrijus rafl: have you logged in?
01:56 geoffb autrijus, thx.  :-)
01:56 geoffb & # No, really
01:57 rafl I am an admin.. how comes?
01:58 rafl Does the invite also work for users without an openfoundry account?
01:58 autrijus rafl: yes, that's the idea.
01:58 autrijus you fill in email, they get spammed, and go thru one-click registration.
01:58 autrijus instant gratification and all that.
01:59 autrijus I think we should lift all channel regulars into metacommitters
01:59 autrijus but I'm a bit too lazy to do that now. helps welcome :)
01:59 rafl openfoundry++
01:59 autrijus (you can promote one to admin by click on their name on that page and choose "Admin" in the "Found people" panel.
02:00 autrijus okay, pugs successfully and entirely cabalized.whew.
02:00 svnbot6 r7370 | autrijus++ | * ...successfully cut build time in half _and_ did away all the
02:00 svnbot6 r7370 | autrijus++ |   random .o files in src/.
02:00 autrijus still not tested on win32
02:00 autrijus and parrot/perl embedding needs work
02:00 autrijus but it's 5am and I need to sleep.
02:00 * rafl tries that for 'Juerd' because he also made me an 'Admin' on feather ;-)
02:00 autrijus rafl: oh, you are feature sudo?
02:01 rafl sudo grep rafl /etc/sudoers
02:01 rafl rafl ALL=(ALL) ALL
02:01 rafl ;-)
02:01 autrijus rafl: can you "sudo passwd autrijus" and /msg me whatever password you set for me? I opted to go passwordless and rely on pubkey, but then Juerd made me sudo, and I don't have a passwd anymore ;)
02:01 eos has joined #perl6
02:02 eos hi all
02:02 autrijus (and the sudo as not NOPASSWD.)
02:02 autrijus greetings eos.
02:02 eos anyone ever work with cgi scripts that load in local video files per web requests?
02:02 eos I know that's general.. I do have a very specific question, and it's just blowing my mind.
02:02 rafl autrijus: OK, I'll do that.
02:03 autrijus eos: that... is probably for #perl
02:03 eos oops, didn't notice the 6
02:03 eos good luck with parrot!
02:03 eos =)
02:06 autrijus thanks. :)
02:06 svnbot6 r7371 | autrijus++ | * no need to via-C for Prim.hs anymore.
02:06 rafl autrijus: What does descend into perl5/ and ext/ to build all the modules currently?
02:06 autrijus rafl: perl5 isn't built
02:06 autrijus it's merely copied by srctoblib
02:06 autrijus rafl: ext is governed by regular MM "build_subdirs"
02:07 rafl autrijus: Ah, fine.
02:07 rafl autrijus: You need to do a make register now to install pugs, do you?
02:07 autrijus rafl: no... "make install" does it for you
02:08 autrijus at least I hope so.
02:08 rafl autrijus: Please don't do that. That's contra-productive for packaging people. At least make me able to disable it.
02:08 rafl autrijus: I need to install pugs into a temporary directory, build an archive from that and run the register stuff in a maintainer script when it really gets installed into the real system.
02:09 autrijus rafl: you'd rather me have a separate "register" target?
02:09 rafl autrijus: Yes. And to have a *BIG* *FAT* *HINT* that's displayed after perl Makefile.PL and make. :-D
02:10 rafl autrijus: Why isn't perl5/ handled using build_subdirs?
02:11 autrijus rafl: because most of them lacks a Makefile.PL, and some of them does not really make sense to install into perl5 sitelib, and even more of them relies on a particular dircetory layout between them
02:11 autrijus rafl: which should of course all be fixed.
02:14 nothingmuch has quit IRC (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
02:14 rafl OK. My approach would be to 1st) put the stuff needed for -CJS, -CPerl5, etc. into another directory. or move the unneeded stuff to somewhere else (suggestions on where what should go?) 2nd) Write proper makefile.PLs for the needed stuff 3rd) hook into MM to make it descend into that dirs and put it into pugsblib/ or perl5/$module/pugsblib which will be installed into $PREFIX/share/pugs/perl5.
02:14 rafl Opinions?
02:16 autrijus rafl: unneeded stuff into somewhere else, definitely
02:16 autrijus I wouldn't mind misc/
02:16 autrijus and move modules/* over to misc/
02:16 autrijus otherwise it makes much sane.
02:16 autrijus s/sane/sense/
02:17 rafl What differs modules/Perl-MataModel from perl5/Perl6-MetaModel*?
02:19 autrijus rafl: modules/P-MM is a prototype for perl6-metamodel-with-perl6
02:19 autrijus which is at this moment not worked on
02:19 autrijus and perl5/P6-MM is perl6-metamodel-with-perl5
02:19 autrijus rafl: "make register" is now separated. thanks for the hint
02:21 svnbot6 r7372 | autrijus++ | * "make install" no longer implies "make register", thanks
02:21 svnbot6 r7372 | autrijus++ |   to rafl's prompting.
02:21 svnbot6 r7373 | rafl++ | * Created misc/ as a place where modules that should not be installed live.
02:21 svnbot6 r7373 | rafl++ | * Moved modules/*, perl5/org.perl6.metamodel and perl5/Blondie into misc/.
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02:23 rafl Ok, what parts of perl5/ are actually needed?
02:23 autrijus rafl: T2 and org.perl6.metamodel is not
02:23 autrijus Blondie is not
02:24 autrijus I think you can rm Code-Perl directly
02:24 rafl Only Perl6.MetaModel and Perl6-MetaModel I guess. Maybe Perl6-Value and Perl6-Container.
02:24 autrijus rafl: everything else stays.
02:25 autrijus er, Perl6-MetaModel 1.0 is also gone
02:25 autrijus as in no longer referenced
02:25 autrijus but talk to stevan before deleting it; miscify it should be fine
02:25 autrijus miscify it into Perl6-MetaModel-1.0 and rename 2.0 into Perl6-MetaModel perhaps.
02:26 autrijus if so, fix the ref in PIL-Run.
02:26 autrijus PIL2JS wants Perl6.MetaModel/.
02:26 autrijus eof.
02:29 rafl I think the MM/PIL-Run guys should rename 2.0. I don't even know how to run the test suite correctly. :-)
02:30 svnbot6 r7374 | rafl++ | * Moved T2-Perl6 and MM1.0 to misc/ (renamed the latter one).
02:30 svnbot6 r7374 | rafl++ | * Deleted Code-Perl.
02:30 autrijus rafl: I think you should just go ahead and rename for them.
02:30 * autrijus praises anarchism
02:32 svnbot6 r7375 | rafl++ | * Moved perl5/Perl6-MetaModel2.0 to perl5/Perl6-MetaModel.
02:32 svnbot6 r7375 | rafl++ | * Updated references to Perl6-MetaModel2.0 in PIL-Run.
02:32 svnbot6 r7375 | rafl++ | * Updated PIL-Run's README.
02:32 svnbot6 r7375 | rafl++ | * Praised anarchism.
02:32 autrijus lol
02:33 rafl -Ofun. :-)
02:33 rafl OK, 1st step done.
02:36 rafl Why doesn't MM2 use proper namespaces?
02:37 autrijus because stevan did not have proper tuits to rename them into Perl6::MetaModel::Pneuma etc.
02:37 autrijus he agreed to it, just had not got a round tuit.
02:37 autrijus (trivia: he gave the round tuit to nothingmuch at toronto.)
02:37 svnbot6 r7376 | autrijus++ | * dons noticed that it was the CPP extension that was
02:37 svnbot6 r7376 | autrijus++ |   wrecking all havoc with Prim's symbol table.  Turning it
02:37 svnbot6 r7376 | autrijus++ |   off solved all the problems.  dons++.
02:39 autrijus rafl: so again, feel free to go ahead :)
02:40 rafl autrijus: Hm. How about you doing that while I'll write some of perl/*/Makefile.PL?
02:40 rafl :-)
02:40 autrijus I'm journaling... but why not ;)
02:41 rafl Yeah, then you can journal about it. :-)
02:41 autrijus ;)
02:42 hlen has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:43 rafl Hm, inc::Module::Install/MM doesn't allow '::' in a distributions name, does it?
02:43 svnbot6 r7377 | autrijus++ | * move MetaModel into lib/Perl5/MetaModel/
02:45 autrijus ...done.
02:45 autrijus rafl: it is distname, so use dash
02:45 autrijus but I remember I added compat
02:46 rafl autrijus: It gives me an error when doing make if there's a '::'.
02:46 rafl A dash works, of course.
02:46 autrijus k
02:49 svnbot6 r7378 | autrijus++ | * finish the Odyssey.
02:49 svnbot6 r7379 | rafl++ | P6-Value:
02:49 svnbot6 r7379 | rafl++ | * New Makefile.PL using inc::Module::Install.
02:49 svnbot6 r7379 | rafl++ | * Updated MANIFEST.
02:49 svnbot6 r7380 | rafl++ | * Nice identing vor P6-Value's Makefile.PL.
02:52 svnbot6 r7381 | rafl++ | * Fix typo in fglock's mail address in P6-Values Makefile.PL.
02:52 svnbot6 r7381 | rafl++ | * New Makefile.PL for Perl6-Container using inc::Module::Install.
02:52 svnbot6 r7381 | rafl++ | * Updated MANIFEST for P6-Container.
02:54 rafl OK, what's left in perl5/ gets more difficult. They have lib, lib6 and PIL2JS even has libjs that needs to be installed somewhere..
02:54 autrijus hence, my suggestion of keeping the structure for now.
02:55 autrijus but that'd not be the Right Thing. :)
02:55 rafl Well, the makefile would look similar to the pugs one i guess.
02:59 eric256_ has joined #perl6
03:03 rafl How should the Makefile var containing the directory for private, arch-indep files be called?
03:05 rafl PUGSPREFIX?
03:05 rafl No, that wouldn't be good.
03:05 rafl PUGSSITELIB maybe?
03:07 eric256_ hey....just saying hi so you don't feel like you are rambling to yourself ;) no real input though. What does perl5 use? that might be a good way to go sense it will automaticaly make sense to more people
03:09 rafl eric256_: Hi. We talked about perl5/ before you joined. It's used for stuff that needs to be installed to make the backends usable.
03:09 autrijus rafl: PERL6_SITELIB or PUGS_SITELIB
03:10 eric256_ what about PUGS_PRIVLIB or PUGS_ARCHLIB  (/me has the feeling he should probably go find the logs before saying much more)
03:11 rafl autrijus: OK. PUGSSITELIB. I'll drop the underscore for consistency.
03:14 rafl Hm. Any way to access the pugs prefix in util/PugsConfig.pm?
03:17 rafl Hm. I don't want that anyway. Forget it. :-)
03:19 eric256_ PugsBuild::Config->lookup("prefix"); in case you change your mind
03:21 rafl Thanks.
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03:25 eric256_ juerd.ping
03:27 rafl Hm.. get_pugs_config->{sourcedir} gives me the directory of the current module, not the pugs sourcedir.
03:27 rafl What's going wrong here?
03:27 rafl (I want to execute a util/ script during the build of a module.
03:39 luqui has joined #perl6
03:40 rafl Hrm.. I'm too tired to continue working on that. But luqui can because he just showed up!
03:41 eric256_ would it make sense to let people set things in config.yml that are currently set as env variables?
03:41 * luqui cannot work
03:41 luqui work on what, btw?
03:41 luqui rafl, I'm starting up the autoupdating evalbot again
03:41 eric256_ config.yml makes sense to me, but ENV variables dont. lol
03:41 luqui so you can kill yours if you like
03:42 luqui eric256_, I think that's a good idea
03:43 rafl luqui: On writing Makefile.PLs for the perl5/ stuff.
03:43 rafl eric256_: Yes, but the env hooks should still be available with a higher priority then the config.yml.
03:43 luqui hahaha
03:43 * luqui doesn't know crap about that stuff
03:43 rafl luqui: OK, I'll do that.
03:43 luqui I just take the default whenever I make a module
03:44 rafl luqui: Me as well. That's the problem I guess. ;-)
03:44 rafl luqui: OK, killing evalbot now.
03:44 rafl luqui: What was the problem some time ago?
03:44 luqui with evalbot?
03:45 eric256_ i wonder if PugsBuild::Config could be setup to check ENV then config.yml...and replace all direct references to $ENV{} ...downside to that?
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03:45 rafl luqui: Yes.
03:45 luqui feather:   05:45:07 up 6 days, 17:04,  9 users,  load average: 1.35, 0.81, 0.51
03:45 luqui feather rebooted
03:45 rafl Ah, OK.
03:45 rafl Was that only 6 days ago?
03:46 luqui looks like it
03:46 rafl autrijus: What does ./setup install actually do?
03:46 rafl autrijus: Does it honor PREFIX and stuff that was set in the Makefile?
03:46 rafl autrijus: It should!
03:50 eric256_ night all.
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03:54 luqui ?eval "this is only a test"
03:54 evalbot_7381 'this is only a test'
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03:55 luqui okay, gtg before I get distracted by you guys :-)
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04:47 dduncan fyi, I've just done an upgrade to ghc 6.4.1 and a pugs make-realclean ... now rebuilding Pugs under the new version ... currently in the middle of 'make' and no issues so far
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05:19 dduncan there was a failure at the end of 'make', however ... here's part of the output:
05:19 dduncan src/Main.hs:18:0:
05:19 dduncan    Failed to load interface for `Pugs':
05:19 dduncan        Could not find module `Pugs': use -v to see a list of the files searched for
05:19 dduncan Triggering rebuild... done.
05:19 dduncan Generating precompiled Prelude... Can't exec "./pugs": No such file or directory at /Volumes/Programming160/Perl/lib/perl5/5.8.7/IPC/Open3.pm line 244.
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07:12 brentdax XML is the new COBOL.
07:14 QtPlatypus brentdax: Thats stament seems wrong on a number of levals.  So please explain yourself.
07:15 brentdax It's incredibly painful and suits love it.
07:16 * QtPlatypus would say that Java is the new COBOL (though java isn't painfull enought)
07:17 * QtPlatypus doesn't think that XML is that painfull.  "Infact its not so bad realy, there are infinitly worse ways to serizile infomation"
07:17 brentdax I mean, it's fine for expressing some data in (although it's a bit heavy).  But when you try to use it as a meta-language--schemas, XSLT, etc.--it totally breaks down.
07:18 QtPlatypus brentdax: I totally aggry with you there.
07:19 QtPlatypus its been pushed outside its neache but a rather evangilical croud that wishes to make everthing XML.
07:19 brentdax It makes me want to implement a YAML parser for $gui_project.
07:19 * QtPlatypus chuckels.
07:24 rantanplan_ has joined #perl6
07:33 geoffb brentdax: <peer_pressure>do it, do it, Do It, Do It, DO IT!</peer_pressure>
07:33 larsen has joined #perl6
07:34 brentdax It's not a Pugs thing...
07:34 geoffb brentdax, who cares? It's still the right thing to do.  :-)
07:35 geoffb With the metacommitter bit comes a responsibility to push people to -Ofun . . .
07:35 dada has joined #perl6
07:36 geoffb Dangit, my spidey sense is tingling, and I don't know why.
07:38 geoffb Bah, I'm going to head off to bed and hope it resolves itself
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08:25 gaal wow, i notice autrijus was pushing metameta committer bits.
08:26 gaal sadly, the build is still broken on windows :-(
08:26 gaal fpstring.o src\cbits\fpstring.c
08:26 gaal NMAKE : fatal error U1073: don't know how to make 'src\UnicodeC.o'
08:27 gaal (ghc 6.4.1 prerelease)
08:27 gaal i'll upgrade to the official release and see.
08:30 gaal ..as i see some special Makefile moosery that has to do with 6.4(.0)?
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08:53 gaal problem still exists in ghc-6.4.1 release.
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09:06 joao has joined #perl6
09:06 joao hello
09:06 scook0 hello!
09:07 joao :)
09:13 gaal heya joao
09:13 gaal et al.
09:18 scook0 uh, is anyone else getting build failures?
09:18 scook0 "Failed to load interface for `Pugs'"
09:18 gaal scook0: yes.
09:19 scook0 is there a last-known-good revision?
09:19 gaal you're using ghc-6.4 yes?
09:19 scook0 oh, yeah
09:19 scook0 did we upgrade?
09:19 gaal i'm getting that with 6.4 and different errors with 6.4.1
09:19 scook0 yuck
09:19 gaal cabalization, see autrijus' journal
09:20 gaal no, the difference in errors is explainable, we have some version-dependednt makefile moosage.
09:22 GeJ r7368 talks about Unicode.C with some Makefile.PL changes. Maybe something's missing.
09:25 gaal looking...
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09:27 gaal heh, no, that's just the branch in the makefile that i already saw :(
09:27 gaal scook0, what OS?
09:27 scook0 Ubuntu/x86
09:28 gaal hmm. well, if you need a pugs bad, bo back a few dozen Rs, before the cabalization attempts
09:30 gaal r7343 i think should be ok.
09:30 QtPlatypus gaal: What is cabalization?
09:30 scook0 QtPlatypus: short answer: look at autrijus' journal
09:31 scook0 it's some kind of Haskell build-related system, I think
09:35 Juerd eric256: pong
09:36 * GeJ has a feeling that eric256 and Juerd will never be able to be online at the same time
09:38 Juerd That's not a problem if eric256 starts asking/saying things instead of just pinging :)
09:38 Juerd This is asynchronous communication, but some people do wish to synch before commencing
09:38 GeJ ah... a protocol issue then... I see :)
09:38 Juerd Yep
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10:06 svnbot6 r7382 | gaal++ | use canonpath
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10:07 xinming_Beijing is environment variable ($GHC) which can be used for pugs removed?
10:07 xinming_Beijing I just do a svn update, and can't compile anymore
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10:08 scook0 xinming_Beijing: others are also having build problems
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10:09 xinming_Beijing scook0: :'(
10:10 scook0 gaal suggested that if you really need to build, try reverting to around r7343
10:10 xinming_Beijing what I do is just `svn update && make ` for everyday life. :-)
10:11 xinming_Beijing I can wait.
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10:20 joao nothingmuch, welcome
10:20 nothingmuch thanks
10:20 nothingmuch morning
10:21 joao :)
10:21 joao what time is it there?
10:21 nothingmuch 13:21
10:21 joao gmt+2
10:22 nothingmuch aye
10:22 nothingmuch but it varies
10:22 joao how?
10:22 nothingmuch well, we have the penguins
10:22 nothingmuch they would like to pray
10:22 nothingmuch but get the easiest time possible
10:22 nothingmuch they need to get up at sun-up to pray
10:23 nothingmuch so this was formalized to be a certain hour
10:23 iblechbot has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
10:23 nothingmuch and now they lobby each year to make the daylight savings time last as long as possible so that they won't have to get up so early
10:23 nothingmuch isn't that wonderful?
10:23 scook0 wow
10:23 nothingmuch however, starting next year it sould stop,
10:24 nothingmuch this minister from the opposing party passed a new law
10:24 nothingmuch and the dates should be fixed, and no longer varied according to the jewish holiday
10:24 nothingmuch and decided ad-hoc on a year-by-year basis
10:27 joao that's weird
10:34 autrijus I'm workin on buildsys
10:34 autrijus but lunch first
10:34 autrijus will bbl
10:34 autrijus I got broken build on w32 too.
10:34 autrijus luqui++ # journal
10:35 autrijus sorry for breaking the build for 3/4 of configs. :-/
10:35 autrijus &
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11:14 * theorbtwo wonders why they don't go for a comprimise position of making the dates fixed on the hebrew calendar.
11:14 theorbtwo Or figuring the min and max possible dates of the high holy days, and base it on that.
11:30 rafl_ autrijus: Ok, did I break something yesterday? I was too tired to continue, sorry.
11:33 nothingmuch TaPL arrived
11:33 nothingmuch customs charged me $20
11:33 nothingmuch because $50 and $60 + $15 for shipping were not enough
11:33 nothingmuch *sigh*
11:34 * nothingmuch thinks it's sick to charge customs for literature
11:36 scook0 nothingmuch: there's no customs-free threshold?
11:36 nothingmuch there is, but it's very low
11:36 nothingmuch if something is worth more than $40 or so they start charging
11:36 scook0 ouch
11:37 scook0 some people I know did a bulk ThinkGeek order recently
11:37 scook0 and got slugged ~AU$200 on a ~AU$500 order
11:37 nothingmuch holy crap
11:38 scook0 turns out if they'd split it into chunks of less than $250, they'd have payed nothing (except extra postage)
11:38 nothingmuch aye
11:39 scook0 once you go over the threshold, they really bite you
11:39 scook0 first you pay the processing fee (~$50-100 IIRC)
11:40 scook0 then you pay the actual customs charges
11:40 scook0 then you pay tax on everything
11:41 nothingmuch aye =(
11:44 joao has quit IRC ("This computer has gone to sleep")
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11:45 scook0 I suppose I should buy myself a copy of TaPL -- I've got a library copy atm
11:46 * nothingmuch should have made his mum do an interlibrary loan instead of buying
11:46 nothingmuch even that wouldn't have taken that long ;-)
11:48 scook0 (my uni library)++
11:48 * nothingmuch has no uni yet
11:48 nothingmuch i really ought to fix that soon
11:48 joao I have a copy here at home
11:48 joao from my univ library
11:49 joao nothingmuch, my univ let other people to loan books. They just have to register
11:49 joao (and pay a fee)
11:49 nothingmuch oh, getting books from the library is no problem
11:49 nothingmuch my parents are both employees
11:50 nothingmuch (http://www.math.bgu.ac.il/~kojman/, http://profiler.bgu.ac.il/site/public_site/Show_User.cfm?user_id=1045)
11:50 scook0 but the library doesn't have its own copy?
11:50 nothingmuch hmm, that page is out of date.. mum is a prof now
11:50 nothingmuch anyway, the library doesn't have TaPL
11:50 nothingmuch but the tel aviv university does
11:50 nothingmuch so we could do an interlibrary loan
11:50 nothingmuch but that doesn't matter, I still need to start thinking about studying ;-)
11:53 * scook0 thinks that after all this extra-curricular activity, nothingmuch will find real uni boring ;)
11:53 * nothingmuch will probably not study compsci, if that's what you mean
11:53 scook0 ah
11:53 nothingmuch i want math & linguistics
11:54 nothingmuch with maybe a bit of compsci on the side for fun
11:54 Juerd There's a reply to a p6l posting that I wish to respond to, but it's not arrived yet and I accidentally deleted it already.
11:54 Juerd Frustrating!
11:54 nothingmuch Juerd: do you remember the poster? i could fwd as attachment, and you can append to your mailbox
11:54 Juerd No
11:54 nothingmuch thread?
11:54 Juerd It isn't on p6l yet
11:54 Juerd I guess he's stuck in moderation
11:55 nothingmuch oh, i get it
11:55 nothingmuch i thought you meant it hassn't reached the archives yet
11:55 nothingmuch hmm
11:55 Juerd The post suggested allowing declaring named roles in expressions
11:56 nothingmuch i like !Int better than Int(!)
11:56 nothingmuch but that's a nice syntactic idea
11:56 Juerd $foo but role is_default {}
11:56 * nothingmuch wonders what that means ;-)
11:56 Juerd nothingmuch: Yes, I had ! first, but that doesn't play nice with the RHS
11:56 Juerd It's:
11:56 Juerd role is_default { }
11:56 Juerd $foo but is_default
11:56 nothingmuch oh
11:56 Juerd Likewise: my $subref = sub foo { ... }
11:56 nothingmuch why name the role if it's declared inline?
11:56 Juerd To refer to it later
11:57 nothingmuch i think that's confusing wrt runtime/compile time and the whole aspect of when and at what scope it's declared
11:57 nothingmuch in that case, can't you already do that?
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11:58 wolverian Juerd, wouldn't that require you to add a ; to every named sub declaration?
11:59 nothingmuch wolverian: nuh uh
11:59 nothingmuch see t/syntax/something_or_other
11:59 nothingmuch eval {
11:59 nothingmuch expr;
11:59 nothingmuch }
11:59 nothingmuch + 1; # this is a second expression - prefix + on 1 in void context
11:59 nothingmuch it's in one of the apocalypses
11:59 nothingmuch stmt_or_expr.t
11:59 wolverian oh.
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12:00 wolverian I thought we didn't need that now that we have statement and expression types for constructs
12:00 wolverian but maybe it's useful anyway.
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12:00 nothingmuch A02
12:00 wolverian yes, I remember now.
12:00 wolverian I just thought it didn't apply anymore.
12:01 nothingmuch how come?
12:01 wolverian see my line above
12:01 Juerd wolverian: No, there's this weird syntax rule for semicolons that I used to hate but can certainly appreciate in this new light
12:01 wolverian Juerd, yeah :)
12:01 wolverian I feel the same.
12:01 wolverian besides, after coding Haskell I don't hate whitespace rules so much anymore.
12:02 * nothingmuch hardly ever notices whitespace rules in haskell
12:02 Juerd I don't hate whitespace rules
12:02 wolverian do you use a smart editor? :)
12:02 Juerd I hate indenting rules.
12:02 nothingmuch wolverian: nay, it's just that normall you indent it the way it likes anyway
12:02 wolverian nothingmuch, true enough.
12:03 Juerd nothingmuch: I tend to refactor a lot. Cutting and pasting code shouldn't break it.
12:03 nothingmuch and 90% of the functions won't really require newlines in them
12:03 Juerd I want to refactor first, test, then format nicely.
12:03 nothingmuch Juerd: in haskell?
12:03 Juerd No, I haven't used haskell yet
12:03 wolverian Juerd, I just = in vim.
12:03 nothingmuch ah
12:03 nothingmuch haskell tends to make you write prefactored code ;-)
12:03 Juerd wolverian: That doesn't do exactly what I want.
12:03 wolverian Juerd, oh.
12:04 Juerd My indenting rules are very simple, consistent and readable
12:04 nothingmuch = seems to get haskell wrong in my vim
12:04 Juerd Yet no editor has built in support for exactly what I mean.
12:05 integral it's nice not having to use whitespace too
12:05 wolverian Juerd, hmm, what does perl.vim do differently?
12:06 Juerd Is indentation vimfile dependent?
12:06 Juerd I thought it was a global option.
12:07 Juerd What I want is any of (, [, { and < at the end of a line to start indentation
12:08 Juerd And a ), ], }, > at the beginning of a line to end indentation, the line containing the character already no longer being indented
12:08 Juerd Obviously, the bracket that ends indentation has to be of the same type.
12:09 wolverian Juerd, it is indent file dependent
12:09 wolverian (syntax file)
12:10 Juerd And there must be no special case for words like "for", "do", ... EVER
12:12 joao nothingmuch, still related with uni studies (i was having lunch :P ) , comp. sci. + math sounds cooler :)
12:12 * nothingmuch is interested in compsci, but not on a global scale
12:12 nothingmuch every small thing interests me for a while
12:13 nothingmuch but it doesn't remain exciting long enough
12:13 nothingmuch so maybe later i'll expand into it, but i'd like to start off with things that seem to have a better long term interest for me
12:13 joao (unbelievable. 97% of Portugal is in severe or extreme drought!)
12:14 wolverian nothingmuch, my major is CS, but I'm free to study whatever I want - really useful!
12:14 nothingmuch wolverian: how come?
12:15 wolverian nothingmuch, how come it's useful or the other point?
12:15 nothingmuch no, how did you get them to let you do it?
12:15 wolverian nothingmuch, oh, it's standard here. of course you don't get credit for the extra studies unless they form a minor (or another major)
12:16 nothingmuch ah
12:16 wolverian (or rather, you don't get credit that would count towards your diploma)
12:16 wolverian nothingmuch, lectures are also free for anyone, even non-students
12:16 nothingmuch that is also true here
12:16 wolverian nice.
12:16 nothingmuch however, IIRC the excercises and tests are for paying students only
12:17 wolverian paying? ;)
12:17 nothingmuch errm
12:17 nothingmuch you know
12:17 nothingmuch real students
12:17 nothingmuch paying == scholarship too
12:17 wolverian right, we don't have either.
12:17 nothingmuch people the university is getting money from
12:17 nothingmuch eu?
12:17 wolverian right. finland.
12:17 nothingmuch ah
12:17 joao here you pay a small fee to extra courses. but it's hard to make extra courses, because time is not enough
12:17 * nothingmuch ought to study in eu
12:17 nothingmuch i have a citizenship
12:17 wolverian joao, the latter point is true here as well
12:18 wolverian and you have to maintain a certain rate of credit, otherwise you don't get student benefits
12:18 joao and sometimes, classes are brain killing stuff
12:18 joao it's more useful to learn thing by ourselves, sometimes
12:19 wolverian (but there the credit can be anything, not just that in your major/minor(s))
12:20 wolverian joao, do you have to attend the lectures?
12:22 joao wolverian, unfortunately, in some cases, yes.
12:23 joao usually, students in portugal don't want to learn. they just want to get a job, and that's it.
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12:23 wolverian joao, ew. :)
12:24 nothingmuch morning kolibrie
12:24 kolibrie morning nothingmuch
12:24 wolverian afternoon
12:24 kolibrie it's finally raining here - been weeks/months
12:25 nothingmuch huraah for rain
12:26 wolverian I am so waiting for winter.
12:26 kolibrie what does winter bring
12:27 wolverian snow, different (more) clothes, coldness
12:27 QtPlatypus Sad wolverian in snow?
12:29 wolverian no, happy.
12:30 kolibrie wolverian: I just realized your nick is not wolverine
12:30 kolibrie which syllable does the stress go on
12:30 joao wolverian, note that I talk about my experience (some may contest...)
12:30 wolverian I have no idea. I have only spoken it in finnish and there the stress is always on the first syllable. it also doesn't mean anything.
12:30 nothingmuch drat and fsck
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12:31 joao I hope it rains here, too
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12:42 misc hi
12:43 nothingmuch hi misc
12:43 gaal remoose
12:45 kolibrie so, I missed the 'moose' thing, and now I am beginning to feel uneducated
12:46 nothingmuch kolibrie: moose is gaal's word
12:46 misc is the smart match operator described in exegis 4 implanted in the latest version of pugs ? i was trying to use it on 6.2.9, but it doesn't seems to work like it should..
12:46 nothingmuch it's just moose
12:46 nothingmuch misc: do you have any specific behhavior you'd like to be fixed?
12:46 nothingmuch it's at least partly implemented
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12:47 kolibrie nothingmuch: okay
12:47 nothingmuch if you like, you can edit t/operators/smartmatch.t to add new failing tests
12:47 nothingmuch and I can give you coommit bit
12:47 kolibrie gaal: you're weird :)
12:47 misc nothingmuch: if ( @multi =~ $value ) {, to check if "$value" is in @multi
12:47 nothingmuch hmm
12:47 nothingmuch i think that's spelled (if ($value ~~ @many) { }
12:47 nothingmuch ?eval 1 ~~ [1, 2, 3]
12:47 evalbot_7382 bool::false
12:47 nothingmuch ?eval (1 ~~ [1, 2, 3])
12:47 evalbot_7382 bool::false
12:48 nothingmuch ?eval (1 ~~ (1, 2, 3))
12:48 evalbot_7382 bool::false
12:49 nothingmuch ?eval ([1 , 2, 3 ] ~~ 1 )
12:49 evalbot_7382 bool::false
12:50 nothingmuch in s04 i see:   Array   Num       array contains number    match if any($_) == $x
12:50 nothingmuch { #L<<S04/"Smart matching" /\QArray\s+Num\s+array\s+contains\s+number\s+match\s+if\s+any(\$_)\s+==\s+\$x/>>
12:50 nothingmuch    ok(((1, 2) ~~ 1), "(1, 2) contains 1", :todo);
12:50 nothingmuch    ok(!((3, 4, 5) ~~ 2), "(3, 4, 5) doesn't contain 2");
12:50 nothingmuch };
12:50 nothingmuch misc: you can try to fix it if you like
12:51 misc nothingmuch: i doubt, but at least, i can try to understand
12:52 nothingmuch misc: first off, can you coimmit to the pugs repo?
12:52 misc nothingmuch: no
12:52 misc nothingmuch: i do not even know haskell or anything :)
12:52 nothingmuch in that case, if you give me an email i can invite you
12:52 nothingmuch we can walk you through
12:52 gaal remoose again
12:52 gaal kolibrie: http://forum2.org/moose/
12:52 misc i do not fear i will have enough time to spare for this :/
12:53 misc nothingmuch: if i have something to commit, i will come back to you
12:54 nothingmuch misc: okay
12:55 nothingmuch gaal: that moose is 1/2 of the cat from alice, right?
12:56 gaal )
12:57 gaal or rather, })
12:57 nothingmuch ?
12:57 dudley_ antlers and a smile...
12:57 gaal well, to answer your question, yes, it is
12:57 nothingmuch dudley_: aye, but that didn't answer my question =)
12:57 gaal it's just the smile (and the antlers)
12:57 nothingmuch =)
12:58 nothingmuch some rules.t tests are *so* broken
12:59 nothingmuch it's hard to convert a linearization back to multidimensional group spec
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13:12 nothingmuch bah
13:13 nothingmuch is(("b" ~~ /(a)|(b)/ && $/[1].from), 0, 're_tests 360/2 (#470)');
13:13 nothingmuch is that test correct?
13:13 nothingmuch wait
13:13 nothingmuch yes it is
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13:22 svnbot6 r7383 | rafl++ | * Proper Makefile.PL for PIL-Run.
13:22 svnbot6 r7383 | rafl++ | * Deleted empty lib6/disabled.
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13:25 kolibrie gaal: thanks for the link })
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13:32 rafl_ is now known as rafl
13:33 svnbot6 r7384 | rafl++ | * New Makefile.PL for Perl6-MetaModel.
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13:34 rafl Only the PIL2JS stuff is missing now. Then we'll be able to install perl5/ properly.
13:36 nothingmuch yummy
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13:40 rafl Are there some policies on how to install JS libraries system-wide? I can't find a good example..
13:40 nothingmuch hmm
13:40 nothingmuch what libraries are we installing?
13:41 rafl Perl6.MetaModel needed by PIL2JS.
13:41 nothingmuch ah
13:41 rafl It could be into PIL2JS/libjs as well, if you ask me.
13:42 nothingmuch i think that makes sense
13:42 nothingmuch maybe you should ask on #javascript or #json first though
13:42 rafl Hrm, why?
13:42 rafl I'm pretty sure it'll work with the MM in PIL2JS/libjs.
13:42 nothingmuch there might be a standard we dunno about?
13:43 rafl I'll need to ask there anyway because if it's in PIL2JS I'll still need to write a Makefile to install it.
13:43 rafl Alright. Let's ask #javascript.
13:46 rafl They don't seem to be lucky with my question. Where's that #json you talked about?
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13:52 nothingmuch err, jsan
13:52 nothingmuch not json, sorry
13:57 svnbot6 r7385 | nothingmuch++ | minor fixes
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14:02 svnbot6 r7386 | rafl++ | * Moved the JS MetaModel into PIL2JS.
14:02 svnbot6 r7386 | rafl++ | * Adjusted paths in the tests so they run again.
14:02 svnbot6 r7386 | rafl++ | * Removed empty perl5/Perl6.MetaModel.
14:02 svnbot6 r7386 | rafl++ | * Praised Anarchism, again.
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14:03 rafl OK, one Makefile missing.
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14:14 svnbot6 r7387 | rafl++ | * Makefile.PL for PIL2JS.
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14:15 rafl Can someone confirm that the cabalized pugs build is broken currently?
14:15 rafl "Could not find module `readline'" seem's to be the first error.
14:16 eric256 i can.if you tell me how to test it ;)
14:16 rafl perl Makefile.PL; make :-)
14:17 nothingmuch rafl: worked for me about an hour go
14:17 nothingmuch ago
14:17 eric256 thought so but wanted to check
14:17 eric256 ;)
14:18 rafl Hrm. Where are the lamda hackers? I don't really get those ghc errors.
14:18 eric256 hmmm....make finished...but way to fast.  says "Failed to load interface for 'Pugs':
14:18 nothingmuch rafl: nopaste it all?
14:18 nothingmuch module readline is ghc-pkg related
14:19 nothingmuch try ghc-pkg list readline
14:19 rafl ghc-pkg describe readline works.
14:19 nothingmuch hmm
14:19 rafl list not, of course. It doesn't take an argument.
14:19 svnbot6 r7388 | iblech++ | * Usual svn props, also updated svn:ignore of / to contain "Setup" etc.
14:19 svnbot6 r7388 | iblech++ | * PIL2JS: PIL2JS.pm: Unbreak PIL2JS by adjusting the path to the JS metamodel.
14:19 svnbot6 r7388 | iblech++ |   rafl++ for cleaning the perl5/ mess!
14:19 nothingmuch it works for me
14:20 nothingmuch what ghc are you using?
14:20 eric256 hmmm make is failing on feather
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14:20 rafl http://feather.perl6.nl/~rafl/pugs_build.log
14:21 rafl eric256: My assumption is that this problem is Debian related somehow.
14:21 pasteling "eric256" at 66.102.136.70 pasted "Failing Make" (13 lines, 939B) at http://sial.org/pbot/13517
14:21 eric256 your trying to make on feather too?
14:22 rafl No, on a local debian installation.
14:22 nothingmuch is Unicode.c autogenerated?
14:22 nothingmuch rafl: this may sound dumb, but does 'ld -lreadline' work?
14:24 rafl No. ld: warning: cannot find entry symbol _start; not setting start address - but I don't thin this is supposed to work. libreadline is installed nevertheless.
14:24 nothingmuch hmm
14:24 stevan wow,.. lots of files have moved around :)
14:25 stevan morning all
14:25 rafl nothingmuch: Yes, UnicodeC.c is autogenerated.
14:25 rafl Morning stevan
14:25 stevan rafl++ # doing the job no one else wanted to do :)
14:25 eric256 hmm wasn't there somethine where you had to create a fake pugs file to convince it to compile?
14:25 stevan rafl++ # you deserve a couple ++ for this actually
14:25 nothingmuch what about me? i've been doing rules.t for three days
14:26 * nothingmuch never gets enough credit around here
14:26 nothingmuch i want a divorce, stevan
14:26 stevan nothingmuch++ # for doing something... uhm.. yeah that stuff
14:26 rafl nothingmuch: Fix my build failure first!
14:26 stevan nothingmuch: you already have the house,. the kids,.. the car,.. WTF,..
14:26 nothingmuch rafl: i doubt I can
14:26 nothingmuch damnit
14:26 rafl nothingmuch: Any further ideas where to start debuging?
14:27 nothingmuch i hate it when tests don't check that failure is failure for the right reasons
14:27 nothingmuch ok(not(....))
14:27 nothingmuch beh
14:27 nothingmuch rafl: nope =(
14:27 rafl Duh.. I can't do the perl5-installing stuff if pugs doesn't build :-(
14:28 eric256 its looking for a Unicode.c file, but all i have are UnicodeC.c files
14:28 eric256 andi have Unicode.hs  ....just in case this meeans anything to someone else ;)
14:29 rafl eric256: I think I found it.
14:30 rafl Commited.
14:30 svnbot6 r7389 | rafl++ | * Fixed typo that made the build fail.
14:30 eric256 rafl++ for having all of the most recent commits. lol
14:31 rafl Yeah, stupidly moving files around gives you a lot of commits. :-)
14:31 eric256 one step closer
14:32 pasteling "eric256" at 66.102.136.70 pasted "Pugs Build Fail" (17 lines, 1.1K) at http://sial.org/pbot/13519
14:35 rafl It should be syck_parse(p), IMHO.
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14:36 nothingmuch bah!
14:36 nothingmuch for the record i think that rules.t is not good enough to be a test
14:36 nothingmuch the tests rely too much on bad behavior
14:37 nothingmuch and are not accurate enough
14:37 rafl Err, no.
14:37 nothingmuch but i've got stuff almost passing 100% via Parrot::Test::PGE
14:38 rafl eric256: I'm not too sure. Maybe including gram.c helps.
14:39 eric256 i wouldn't know.   ;)
14:39 eric256 i can try something localy if you have an idea though
14:41 rafl Yes. Try #include "gram.c" in syck.c. I'm not to optimistic, though. Including .c files isn't a good Idea normally.
14:41 ods15_ has joined #perl6
14:41 eric256 i put it right below #include "syck.h"
14:42 rafl Sounds good.
14:42 eos has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
14:43 pasteling "eric256" at 66.102.136.70 pasted "Same error i think" (18 lines, 1.2K) at http://sial.org/pbot/13520
14:43 eric256 could it be that the make clean isn't cleaning well enough?
14:44 rafl I don't know. Sorry.
14:44 eric256 thats okay.
14:44 * Limbic_Region is getting a different Win32 build error
14:45 rafl Well, it should AFAIK. You could try to make realclean and then remove all object files and auto-generated stuff by-hand.
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14:52 eric256 hmmm....irc client didn't like me
14:52 eric256 could "/usr/bin/ar: dist/build/src/Data/Yaml/Syck_stub.o: No such file or directory"  be the real heart of th matter?
14:52 eric256 in that directory i have Syck.o but no Syck_stub.o
14:54 svnbot6 r7390 | nothingmuch++ | All failures are due to PGE now
14:54 pasteling "Limbic_Region" at 129.33.119.12 pasted "Win32 Compile failure" (62 lines, 2.8K) at http://sial.org/pbot/13521
14:55 ods15 has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
14:55 Limbic_Region and don't let the "Cygwin" in the path fool you, that is Active State Perl
14:55 bpalmer has left "ERC Version 4.0 $Revision: 1.719 $ (IRC client for Emacs)"
14:55 eric256 hey thats the same error i'm getting L~R  ;) (on feather) now i don't feel so alone
14:56 Limbic_Region ok - but this is on a winbugs box
14:56 eric256 yea. so its definitly/maybe something to do with Syck_stub.o ?
14:57 Limbic_Region dunno - I don't do much with Pugs these days other than verify that it compiles and runs the code that I have previously written
14:58 pasteling "nothingmuch" at 82.81.247.180 pasted "converted rules.t output" (23 lines, 1.3K) at http://sial.org/pbot/13522
14:59 nothingmuch does anybody know whither pmichaud?
14:59 nothingmuch jabbot: seen pmichaud?
14:59 jabbot nothingmuch: pmichaud was seen 99 days 19 hours 41 minutes 28 seconds ago
14:59 eric256 line 81 of build_pugs.pl seems of interest..
14:59 nothingmuch blech
14:59 * Limbic_Region wanders off to a meeting but will try again later
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15:03 rafl eric256: Can you pase a full build log? Maybe the error is above.
15:03 joao has quit IRC ("This computer has gone to sleep")
15:03 eric256 easiest way to do that?
15:04 rafl copy&paste? make >pugs_build.log 2>&1 ?
15:04 eric256 thanks
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15:09 joao has joined #perl6
15:12 nothingmuch blah
15:14 elmex has quit IRC ("leaving")
15:14 nothingmuch enough unfun for one day
15:16 evalbot_7390 has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
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15:18 svnbot6 r7391 | nothingmuch++ | remove pointless diagnosis
15:20 rafl What's in the "Chasing modules from:"-line when building pugs for the people who can currently build pugs?
15:24 svnbot6 r7392 | rafl++ | * Moved ext/XML-SAX to misc/.
15:24 svnbot6 r7393 | rafl++ | * Clean Setup{,.hi} and Pugs.cabal properly.
15:24 kolibrie my build from yesterday or so says: Chasing modules from: src/Main.hs
15:25 rafl kolibrie: Could you please rebuild HEAD?
15:26 kolibrie rafl: yikes!  # want me to break everything :)
15:26 kolibrie rafl: sure
15:26 rafl make a copy of a working version! :-)
15:26 evalbot_7391 has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
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15:27 * kolibrie waits while svk pulls in yesterdays changes
15:28 rafl There were a lot, yes.
15:28 kolibrie make realclean first?
15:29 rafl Why not? :-)
15:30 rafl Hurry.. I'll leave in a few minutes. :-)
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15:31 kolibrie I'm trying first without realclean... that's faster
15:32 iblech has joined #perl6
15:32 kolibrie so far so good
15:32 kolibrie the Chasing modules line had LOTS of files
15:32 gaal failsforme on win32
15:33 gaal w ghc-6.4
15:33 pasteling "iblech" at 62.216.197.14 pasted "rafl: "Chasing modules from"" (1 line, 1.1K) at http://sial.org/pbot/13523
15:33 iblech (successful build)
15:33 gaal still the Failed to load interface for `Pugs' error here.
15:34 iblech Here too.
15:35 * iblech cleans and tries again, just to be sure
15:36 * Limbic_Region is in the middle of a realclean now
15:38 Limbic_Region running nmake
15:39 Amnesiac has quit IRC ("Leaving")
15:40 pasteling "Limbic_Region" at 129.33.119.12 pasted "Total output of nmake up to and including failure" (221 lines, 14.3K) at http://sial.org/pbot/13524
15:42 Limbic_Region preceeding nmake was nmake realclean; svn up; perl Makefile.PL
15:43 iblech rafl: Now the build failed, but same "Chasing modules from" line. Also it couldn't find dist/build/src/Data/Yaml/Syck_stub.o
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16:15 autrijus back
16:15 autrijus sorry, the fix is in
16:15 autrijus finally got network.
16:17 evalbot_7393 has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
16:17 autrijus so, please rebuild; it should Work Now (tm)
16:17 svnbot6 r7394 | autrijus++ | * build fixes.
16:19 autrijus however, not yet tested with ghc 6.4
16:19 autrijus testing that now
16:21 * Limbic_Region tries
16:23 nothingmuch has quit IRC (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
16:26 Limbic_Region autrijus - same failure - ghc 6.4 btw
16:26 autrijus ok, I still need 8min to download 6.4
16:26 autrijus have you rerun makefile.pl btw?
16:27 yinjieh has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
16:27 Limbic_Region yes - every time
16:27 Limbic_Region nmake realclean; svn up; perl Makefile.pl; nmake
16:27 Limbic_Region fwiw - the error isn't exactly the same as before but it is in the same place
16:28 Limbic_Region it suggests I run setup configure
16:28 autrijus I got the fix
16:28 Limbic_Region ok
16:29 elmex has joined #perl6
16:29 autrijus r7395
16:30 * Limbic_Region tries
16:32 pasteling "iblech" at 62.216.197.14 pasted "build failure with r7395" (17 lines, 1.1K) at http://sial.org/pbot/13525
16:32 Limbic_Region running nmkae now
16:32 Limbic_Region nmake even
16:33 autrijus iblech:
16:33 autrijus /usr/bin/ar: dist/build/src/Data/Yaml/Syck_stub.o: Datei oder Verzeichnis nicht gefunden
16:33 autrijus iblech: where is Syck_stub.o then?
16:33 autrijus (a critical stage in util/build_pugs.pl is to add that stub back to .a)
16:33 iblech ./dist/build/src/Syck_stub.o
16:33 autrijus in line 98
16:33 Limbic_Region same error autrijus
16:34 autrijus Limbic_Region: ok, win32 ghc 6.4?
16:34 svnbot6 r7395 | autrijus++ | * GHC 6.4 has no 'Win32' package, so skipping those.
16:34 autrijus iblech: excellent, more variable locations. can you hack build_pugs?
16:34 Limbic_Region yes - just a sec
16:34 autrijus in line 91, accomodate for more candidate positions
16:34 autrijus alternatively, hunt for one using File::Find ;)
16:35 iblech autrijus: works! committing
16:35 pasteling "Limbic_Region" at 129.33.119.12 pasted "Win32, AS Perl, GHC 6.4, r7395" (73 lines, 3.8K) at http://sial.org/pbot/13526
16:35 autrijus nice
16:35 autrijus iblech++
16:36 * Limbic_Region whines
16:37 Limbic_Region so what about me
16:37 autrijus Limbic_Region: r7397
16:37 svnbot6 r7396 | iblech++ | * Usual svn props.
16:37 svnbot6 r7396 | iblech++ | * util/build_pugs.pl: cp dist/build/src/Syck_stub.o
16:37 svnbot6 r7396 | iblech++ |   dist/build/src/Data/Yaml/Syck_stub.o, to fix the build (at least) on Gentoo
16:37 svnbot6 r7396 | iblech++ |   Linux x86 GHC 6.4.
16:37 autrijus Limbic_Region++
16:37 Limbic_Region Win32 are people too you know
16:37 Limbic_Region ;-)
16:37 ods15_ has joined #perl6
16:37 autrijus I'm on win32 at this moment :)
16:37 svnbot6 r7397 | autrijus++ | * ditto for the 'depends' line for ghc 6.4-win32
16:37 svnbot6 r7396 | iblech++ | * Usual svn props.
16:37 svnbot6 r7396 | iblech++ | * util/build_pugs.pl: cp dist/build/src/Syck_stub.o
16:37 svnbot6 r7396 | iblech++ |   dist/build/src/Data/Yaml/Syck_stub.o, to fix the build (at least) on Gentoo
16:37 svnbot6 r7396 | iblech++ |   Linux x86 GHC 6.4.
16:38 Limbic_Region ok, trying r7397
16:39 iblech food &
16:39 Limbic_Region autrijus - no dice
16:40 Limbic_Region should I nopaste the entire nmake output?
16:41 pasteling "Limbic_Region" at 129.33.119.12 pasted "entire Win32 perl Makefile.PL and nmake output" (244 lines, 13.1K) at http://sial.org/pbot/13527
16:43 * autrijus pouts
16:43 autrijus wait, I'm installing ghc now
16:43 GeJ has quit IRC ("Client exiting")
16:47 misc the pod from Net/IRC.pm is wrong, it talk of $bot<add_command_handler> while this no longer exist ( all other examples are good, but i decided to read doc instead of source code, just to see )
16:48 autrijus misc: please fix away.
16:48 autrijus Limbic_Region: I'm fixing
16:49 Limbic_Region I'm Joshua, nice to meet you fixing
16:49 autrijus rofl.
16:50 misc mhh, no, it was already correted in trunk, sorry
16:50 autrijus k
16:50 Limbic_Region try now?
16:51 Limbic_Region oh, nevermind
16:51 Limbic_Region you were addressing misc
16:52 ods15 has quit IRC (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
16:53 autrijus Limbic_Region: erase .setup-config
16:53 autrijus it should be added to clean_files (if you got tuits please add it to Makefile.PL)
16:54 Limbic_Region ok - will attempt both
16:55 autrijus and I fixed the other bug... committing
16:55 Limbic_Region autrijus - there is no .setup-config ???
16:56 Limbic_Region does that happen after perl Makefile.PL ?
16:56 autrijus no, after an attempted build
16:56 autrijus please just fix Makefile.PL
16:57 Limbic_Region but what I am saying is that there isn't now, nor do I have any reason to believe I have ever had a .setup-config file
16:57 Limbic_Region I will add it to the Makefile.PL though for you
16:57 autrijus yes, because configure failed
16:57 autrijus and you should get much farther with r7398.
16:57 autrijus (and at which time you would have one.)
16:57 Limbic_Region ok
16:58 Limbic_Region and .setup-config should be in the root?
16:58 autrijus yup
17:00 Limbic_Region checking in now
17:00 svnbot6 r7398 | autrijus++ | * proper fix for GHC6.4+win32, for real!
17:01 Limbic_Region but I screwed up
17:01 Amnesiac has joined #perl6
17:02 Limbic_Region re-checking in
17:03 Limbic_Region hey - I just came across this JS link on closures http://jibbering.com/faq/faq_notes/closures.html
17:04 Limbic_Region might be interesting to those working on the JS backend
17:06 autrijus Limbic_Region: so build works?
17:06 svnbot6 r7399 | Limbic_Region++ | Added .setup-config to clean_files in Makefile.PL per request from autrijus
17:06 svnbot6 r7400 | Limbic_Region++ | Added .setup-config properly to clean_files in Makefile.PL per request from autrijus
17:06 Limbic_Region autrijus - don't know if it works
17:06 Limbic_Region but it certainly is making it further
17:06 Limbic_Region it takes a LONG time to build on this machine
17:07 autrijus "nmake unoptimised"?
17:08 Limbic_Region but I don't ever run unoptimized so it really doesn't do "me" any good
17:08 autrijus k.
17:12 eric256 is the build for pugs fixed now?
17:13 autrijus eric256: I believe so. try it?
17:13 autrijus sorry for leaving it burning.
17:13 eric256 trying riight now
17:13 * eric256 crosses fingers ;)
17:15 pasteling "eric256" at 66.102.136.70 pasted "Still gives these warnigns, but appears to be working" (4 lines, 220B) at http://sial.org/pbot/13528
17:16 iblech FYI, same warnings here
17:16 eric256 of course as far as i know it always gave those warnings. ;)
17:19 autrijus woot.
17:19 autrijus adding some prototype should fix those
17:19 autrijus but not priority for me now.
17:23 * geoffb pulls to try a build also
17:25 geoffb I'm doing a no-embed build . . . but are embed builds a priority before 6.2.10?
17:26 brentdax Interesting...165 text messages/second = no voice service in Manhattan.
17:26 autrijus geoffb: it should not regress, but that's all
17:27 geoffb Yesterday, P5 embed was dead.  After this build, I'll try again
17:27 Juerd eric256: pong, 2nd attempt :)
17:27 geoffb brentdax, huh?
17:28 brentdax If you can send 165 text messages a second to that area, it ties up the control frequencies so voice calls can't get through.
17:28 geoffb interesting!
17:28 geoffb Where did you learn that?
17:28 Juerd And... of course we can :)
17:29 brentdax Bruce Schneier linked to it from his blog.
17:29 geoffb I'm honestly a little surprised that doesn't happen all the time
17:29 * geoffb goes to check BS blog
17:29 Juerd The single most important reason that they don't get ddossed all the time is that sending these messages is expensive :)
17:30 brentdax Not if you use the e-mail gateway, which conveniently enough is connected to the Internet, where automated attacks are easy...
17:30 Juerd Is that a free service?
17:31 brentdax Free to the sender.
17:31 Juerd We have email to sms thingies here too, but they're still expensive
17:31 Juerd Of course
17:31 theorbtwo Hm, those are rather unfortunate initials.
17:31 Juerd I don't think this service will even allow this many message :)
17:31 Juerd s
17:31 Limbic_Region autrijus - so far so good, which means I am guessing it is fixed
17:32 geoffb SMP++
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17:36 autrijus Limbic_Region: woot.
17:37 geoffb BTW, autrijus, can ghc compiles use SMP?  Right now I'm just happy that my X is still responsive while I build
17:37 geoffb Looks like it built!
17:38 geoffb now to nuke a pile of stuff in /usr/local and see if the install target is sane
17:38 saorge has joined #perl6
17:38 pasteling "gaal" at 192.115.25.249 pasted "still no luck, 6.4/win32" (16 lines, 941B) at http://sial.org/pbot/13530
17:39 gaal trying with 6.4.1...
17:41 eric256 has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
17:42 gaal in irssi, how do i set PgUp/PgDn to scroll a full screenful rather than half a page each time? this is giving me contextual anxiety.
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17:43 iblech gaal: Adding an appropriate copy() call to util/build_pugs.pl:91 fixed the problem here (copy("where/ever/Syck_stub.o/is", "dist/build/src/Data/Yaml/Syck_stub.o"))
17:44 gaal iblech: thanks! so far so good on 6.4.1.
17:44 brentdax Heh...non-programmer friend of mine who follows Perl 6 stuff points out that 'Japanese "ofun" can be read as "honorable part (of something)".'
17:44 autrijus iblech: I think we need a File::Find hunt
17:44 autrijus can you take a stab at it? I need to reboot and bbiab.
17:44 gaal to hunt for what, autrijus?
17:45 autrijus geoffb: Syck_stub.o in its myriad of places in build_pugs
17:45 autrijus er
17:45 autrijus s/geoffb/gaal/
17:45 autrijus brentdax: good, we are having honorable fun
17:45 gaal iblech/autrijus, dynamically or is this a one time fix?
17:46 autrijus dynamically (I think)
17:46 gaal eeerk, hit a Strange Object ghc crash. trying again with optimizations on :)
17:47 geoffb Good lord, my /usr/local was littered.  OK, time to try make install
17:47 orafu_ has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
17:48 geoffb Is "make register" now manditory, or just for Haskell hackers wanting to embed pugs?
17:49 autrijus geoffb: latter.
17:50 geoffb ok, then I'll leave that undone so that I can catch it becoming accidently mandatory at some point
17:50 geoffb make install still litters /usr/local, but not as badly, thanks rafl and autrijus
17:50 geoffb Still a lot of .t's though
17:51 autrijus the perl5 bit?
17:52 ods15_ is now known as ods15
17:52 frodo72 has joined #perl6
17:52 geoffb Hmmm, I see this in the install logs:
17:52 geoffb Registering Pugs-6.2.10...
17:52 geoffb Is it both registering and warning that the user needs to?
17:53 geoffb autrijus, yeah, looks like the perl5 stuff.
17:53 geoffb Are the .hi file still needed in the install dir?
17:54 autrijus not at all
17:54 autrijus they are needed in GHC install
17:54 autrijus not in perl6
17:55 autrijus huh, how is it registering? where's the log?
17:56 geoffb /usr/local/lib/Pugs-6.2.10 is where I see all the .hi, along with HSPugs-6.2.10.o and libHSPugs-6.2.10.a
17:56 geoffb I thought the latter two files made the .hi unneeded?  or just the other .o's?
17:56 autrijus just the o
17:56 Shillo has joined #perl6
17:56 autrijus .a is just an ar of o
17:56 geoffb I just saw that registering line when I scrolled back
17:56 Shillo Hullo, folks!
17:56 autrijus hi is the equiv of h
17:57 autrijus so still need to be around
17:57 geoffb autrijus, ah, OK, got it
17:57 geoffb It's the equiv of /usr/local/include
17:57 autrijus yeah. haskell does not have special .h form
17:57 autrijus its .hi is derived from the .hs
17:57 autrijus to put an interface on top of the otherwise nonselfdescript .o files
17:57 svnbot6 r7401 | autrijus++ | * do not install test files from perl5/*.  geoffb++ for noticing it.
17:58 geoffb Hmmm, I built 7400, but /usr/bin/pugs -v shows 7362 still.
17:58 geoffb I wonder if the install didn't do so
17:58 * geoffb rm's /usr/bin/pugs and reruns install
17:59 geoffb WTF?
17:59 autrijus hrmph?
17:59 svnbot6 r7402 | iblech++ | util/build_pugs.pl: First stab at trying to locate Syck_stub.o using
17:59 svnbot6 r7402 | iblech++ | File::Find to work around a Cabal bug -- works here fine.
18:00 geoffb Dammit, it's reinstalling 7362.
18:00 autrijus hm, wtf indeed
18:00 geoffb I made realclean before this latest run, so I'm mystified
18:00 geoffb bad realclean?
18:01 joao has joined #perl6
18:01 autrijus most likely
18:01 * joao says hello
18:01 autrijus add dist/ to realclean?
18:01 autrijus greetings joao.
18:01 joao :)
18:02 geoffb autrijus, is that clean_files in Makefile.PL?
18:02 autrijus yup
18:03 geoffb Does it rm -rf?  IOW, can I just add dist/ and it will recurse properly?
18:04 * geoffb tries it
18:04 orafu has joined #perl6
18:04 autrijus geoffb: it's rmrf
18:04 geoffb seems to nuked it
18:04 geoffb now trying pull and rebuild
18:04 autrijus geoffb: also, most of the existing clean_files can iirc go away
18:05 autrijus as there will no longer be any .o and .hi in src/
18:05 geoffb One change per test.  :-)
18:05 autrijus geoffb++ # commendable discipline
18:06 autrijus but "svk ci --interactive" will cure you of that :)
18:06 gaal win32 6.4.1 - r7400 works
18:06 autrijus gaal: excellent
18:06 autrijus 6.4?
18:06 geoffb What is --interactive?
18:06 autrijus geoffb: aka darcs.
18:06 gaal in think not, let me see.
18:06 autrijus navigate chunks and choose which to commit.
18:06 gaal (takes a while because unoptimized barfs here)
18:06 * geoffb only uses a few SVK features, and has not done a darcs push, only a darcs get
18:06 geoffb autrijus, ah, interesting
18:07 autrijus most of the time a bit annoying
18:07 autrijus sometimes very useful.
18:07 geoffb diff-chunk at a time, so multiple times per file even?
18:07 autrijus yes.
18:07 geoffb ah, yeah, I can see that being both annoying and really useful
18:07 autrijus you can choose "a" to apply all chunks.
18:07 autrijus so it's not that bad
18:07 autrijus but still a few more keystrokes.
18:07 gaal darcs has something like that too, no?
18:07 geoffb keystrokes--
18:08 autrijus gaal: svk only steals from the best
18:08 geoffb .oO( Copied from darcs? )
18:08 autrijus ;)
18:08 gaal or is it that you just choose diffsets to apply there?
18:08 * Shillo is *HAPPY* RL. Bought myself a new toy... :)
18:08 gaal hee :)
18:08 autrijus Shillo: ooh toy
18:08 geoffb Shillo, what is it?
18:08 Shillo Archos PMA 400
18:09 Shillo Linux/Qtopia PDA, with 30 gigs HD and WiFi. :>
18:09 autrijus oooh I want one
18:09 geoffb I saw someone playing with one of those at OSCON.  Very schweet
18:09 joao sounds nice, how much? :)
18:09 svnbot6 r7403 | geoffb++ | Added dist dir to clean_files in Makefile.PL
18:09 Shillo Yep! :)
18:09 autrijus it's billed as "portable mp3 player", eh?
18:10 geoffb autrijus, from what the OSCON guy said, that's a massive understatement
18:10 Shillo Yeah. Need to install Emacs, Common LISP and Haskell on it, in that order. :)
18:10 autrijus indeed.
18:10 Shillo And yes, it is.
18:10 Shillo It's really a laptop. :>
18:10 joao Shillo, and pugs :)
18:10 Shillo Will it fit 64 megs RAM?
18:10 autrijus hm no keyboard?
18:10 Shillo Actually I know it will. Mmmm.... :>
18:10 geoffb Shillo, I forget, does it have 802.11 or bluetooth?
18:10 Shillo Can take USB keyboards. :>
18:10 Shillo 802.11
18:11 geoffb gut
18:11 gaal http://www.archos.com/products/overview/pma_400_tech_specs.html?sid=j223y224bj22co2bfcjyy4
18:11 Shillo Lack of bluetooth is the only thing I have against it. :)
18:11 Shillo I can live with that, though.
18:11 * geoffb hates bluetooth for security reasons
18:11 geoffb Not that 802.11 is a shining example of secure design . . . .
18:11 gaal lol
18:12 Shillo It does support WEP. :)
18:12 * geoffb rolls his eyes painfully
18:12 Shillo And they toll about it so much that you just -feel- like turning it on. :)
18:12 Shillo But yeah. Crackable.
18:12 Shillo Still, BT is a *LOT* worse.
18:13 geoffb Anyone designing a security protocol to be rolled out to everybody worldwide should be forced to take it to at least Schneier before committing to it . . . .
18:13 geoffb Shillo, nodnod
18:13 svnbot6 r7404 | iblech++ | * Added ".installed-pkg-config" to /'s svn:ignore.
18:13 svnbot6 r7404 | iblech++ | * util/build_pugs.pl: Extremely minor refactor.
18:16 theorbtwo Reminds me, I need to get around to WEP-protecting my 802.11 setup.
18:16 Shillo geoffb: 'sides, there is the Ultimate Security Override with both 802.11 and BT:
18:16 Shillo geoffb: Walk away. :>
18:16 geoffb :-)
18:16 Shillo theorbtwo: *gasp*
18:16 theorbtwo I wish I could just ipsec it, but that'll probably be as much work as getting it working in the first place was.
18:17 theorbtwo Shillo, indeed.
18:17 Shillo Hmm... So many things to try with this toy... And what do I do? Irc. And MUD.
18:17 * geoffb has purchased a bag of 802.11 hardware, but refuses to even plug it in until he knows how to lock it down like Alcatraz
18:17 Shillo (well, from my PC, not from the toy)
18:18 theorbtwo I just got it working a couple days ago, and the laptop and server haven't been in the same room since.
18:19 * geoffb tries make install without doing any deletions first
18:19 Juerd geoffb: The best way is to have the network itself be relatively open, but as separate as possible. Then use an encrypted VPN to connect to your real network.
18:19 geoffb r7403.  Much better
18:20 geoffb Juerd, more detail please . . .
18:20 svnbot6 r7405 | iblech++ | * src/Pugs.hs: Pass --pugs=$*EXECUTABLE_NAME to jspugs.pl.
18:20 svnbot6 r7405 | iblech++ | * PIL2JS: jspugs.pl: Ignore -BJS (needed to silence the warning the change to
18:20 svnbot6 r7405 | iblech++ |   Pugs.hs causes).
18:20 svnbot6 r7405 | iblech++ | * This means pugs -BJS works now even if pugs had been installed and
18:20 svnbot6 r7405 | iblech++ |   $sourcedir/perl5 has been rm-rfed.
18:20 Juerd geoffb: Run a linux box that is connected to both the wifi and the real network
18:20 Juerd geoffb: Run openvpn server on it
18:20 geoffb I might be able to get away with having only linux systems connected wireless, but I also might be forced to allow windows, so supporting that would be nice
18:20 Juerd geoffb: Use openvpn clients on the wifi clients
18:21 Juerd Generate and spread around some keys
18:21 penk has left
18:21 geoffb What is the best way to test that you did not screw up and leave a gaping hole in the security?
18:21 Juerd An open network doesn't attract crackers
18:21 Juerd And a VPN is much more secure than WEP or WPA
18:22 * geoffb knows how to secure a wired firewall . . . a wireless access point, not so much
18:22 Juerd The best way is to hire an experienced cracker.
18:22 geoffb Juerd, makes sense
18:22 Juerd An access point (without router) is nothing more than a wireless hub
18:24 Juerd Or, well, switch, even though you can still sniff everything :)
18:24 Juerd Many access points have built in routers. It's easiest to disable that.
18:24 Juerd Now, if you have a GOOD router/access point, you're in luck
18:24 Juerd Because good ones let you run openwrt
18:24 Juerd And openwrt solves the need for a separate vpn server box
18:24 geoffb sorry, AP/switch/router
18:24 geoffb netgear, IIRC
18:24 theorbtwo I don't think that's quite true.
18:24 theorbtwo An access point also advertises itself differently.
18:24 theorbtwo But possibly from the standpoint of network security...
18:25 * Shillo is now shopping for a suitable keyboard...
18:25 Juerd theorbtwo: What exactly? (not true)
18:25 Shillo :)
18:25 geoffb I learned about OpenWRT a week after buying the hardware.  :-)
18:25 gaal whee! r7403 builds fine here with 6.4 too.
18:26 Shillo geoffb: BTW, exactly how crackable is WEP?
18:26 Juerd Shillo: Very.
18:26 geoffb Shillo, as Juerd said
18:26 Juerd I do use WEP, though
18:26 theorbtwo Juerd, not quite sure -- you probably know more then I do.
18:26 Juerd In fact, at my office, currently the network is entirely open
18:26 geoffb Like "click button, watch progress bar, wait a rather short while"
18:26 Shillo :) :) :)
18:27 Juerd theorbtwo: What exactly? (you don't think is true)
18:27 * theorbtwo hides.
18:27 Juerd theorbtwo: What's wrong with you?
18:27 * autrijus rolls eyes
18:27 autrijus ... I rolled a 11!
18:27 Juerd theorbtwo: You say you don't think something is quite true, and then you won't say what you're referring to, when asked.
18:28 Juerd theorbtwo: That's weird.
18:28 geoffb autrijus hits and does 432 points of damage
18:28 theorbtwo Juerd, I'm rather depressed and unsure of my knowladge in this subject.
18:28 gaal autrijus hits!--more--
18:28 Juerd theorbtwo: This leaves very little room for me to confirm your thinking...
18:28 Juerd Your knowledge won't grow this way...
18:29 theorbtwo An access point is distingished from a normal 802.11 NIC not by what it does with the packets once it gets them, but by how it advertises itself.
18:29 theorbtwo Thus some NICs having infrastructure, ad-hoc, and HostAP modes.
18:30 Juerd Oh, certainly
18:30 Juerd But that's at an entirely different level
18:30 Juerd Eventually, the access point just bridges it with the cabled ethernet network
18:31 Juerd It could do so in ad-hoc mode if it (and its creators) wanted.
18:31 theorbtwo That's actually what I'm doing now -- I've got my NIC in ad-hoc mode, bridged with the ethernet.
18:31 Juerd hostap isn't a mode, it's the name for a project that enables a "normal computer" (whatever that is) to be an access point
18:32 Juerd infrastructure uses the modes Master and Managed
18:32 Juerd ad-hoc uses Ad-Hoc
18:32 theorbtwo Ah.
18:32 Juerd an access point or hostap interface is Master
18:32 Juerd clients are Managed
18:32 theorbtwo OK.
18:32 justatheory has quit IRC ()
18:33 Juerd The names are weird because hostap came later. Otherwise it'd probably have been Master/Slave
18:33 Juerd Note that this is all linux lingo
18:33 Juerd It may or may not be applicable to other systems
18:33 theorbtwo In that case, with the new terminology, APs are in Master mode; some desktop-style NICs can only be in Managed or Ad-Hoc and not Master.
18:33 Juerd Also, it's wireless-tools, not wlan-ng
18:34 Juerd theorbtwo: Yes, except when the desktop-style nic is actually capable of being a Master too.
18:34 Juerd theorbtwo: Some use the hostap driver for this.
18:34 autrijus gaal: did I miss your ghc6.4/win32 build failuare?
18:34 theorbtwo Ah.  Now I begin to understand.
18:34 rantanplan_ has quit IRC ("Leaving")
18:36 gaal autrijus: you missed my success ;)
18:37 autrijus gaal: woot :)
18:37 autrijus all clear then
18:37 gaal smoke running.
18:37 autrijus good. I'll go back to embedding.
18:37 autrijus are you still up to cleanup ext/ fest tails?
18:37 gaal just what i was about to suggest. :)
18:37 autrijus I mean, test fails. mmm dyslexia.
18:38 Shillo Going. Later, folks! :)
18:38 gaal "Our Lord is a shoving leopard" -- Rev. Spooner
18:38 Shillo has quit IRC ("Leaving")
18:39 Amnesiac has quit IRC (Connection timed out)
18:39 michael has joined #perl6
18:48 geoffb OK, deleted all install files (I hope . . . I at least cleaned /usr/local/... and /usr/bin/pugs*)
18:48 geoffb Now to try a build with P5 embed
18:59 geoffb Go boom
19:00 autrijus nopaste?
19:00 geoffb Looks like it compiled the src/*Perl5* files OK (delta a couple warnings that don't look too bad)
19:00 geoffb perlbot, nopaste
19:00 perlbot Paste your code here and #<channel> will be able to view it: http://sial.org/pbot/<channel>
19:01 pasteling "geoffb" at 69.110.115.185 pasted "Last lines of Perl 5 Embed death" (359 lines, 27.7K) at http://sial.org/pbot/13531
19:01 geoffb Sorry, forgot to increase scrollback buffer size, so that's just the last few hundred lines
19:04 geoffb Nice, Gnome bug . . . can't change the scrollback settings without some config thingie exploding
19:04 autrijus okay, I fixed the death
19:04 autrijus retesting
19:05 geoffb do I need to realclean first?
19:05 geoffb oh, not committed yet
19:11 geoffb I normally just 'svk co <remote_url>' . . . what should I do to get the same thing, but in a new local depot (I'd like to have the parrot mirror depot separate from my other mirrors, which share a depot)?
19:13 autrijus svk co <remote_url> too
19:13 autrijus but when asked, instead of saying
19:13 autrijus //mirror/pugs
19:13 autrijus say
19:13 autrijus /foo/pugs
19:13 autrijus where "foo" is the depot name
19:14 autrijus you you may wish to establish it first with "svk depot"
19:14 geoffb Will I need to do some depotmap magic first?
19:14 geoffb Ah, I guess so
19:14 autrijus I don't know if my autovivivicatoion code is that clever
19:15 autrijus try and see... patches welcome
19:15 geoffb OK, will try.  :-)
19:17 geoffb nope, autoviv fails -- in fact, it just loops back and gives the whole depot path blurb and question again
19:17 gaal new smoke up (win32 snapshot, '03)
19:21 gaal there's some trouble over at ext/libwww-perl/t/base/headers-util, it crashes but the pos is wrong
19:22 autrijus I'm still hair deep in -lperl, sorry
19:22 eric256 has joined #perl6
19:22 gaal k
19:23 * eric256 begins the process of installing all his tools on a new computer after his old one died..(realy died, badly)
19:23 eric256 anyone have a favorite windows editor for perl?
19:24 autrijus eric256: eclipse?
19:24 autrijus scite?
19:24 autrijus *gasp* visual perl?
19:25 autrijus nah. s/visual perl/komodo/ if you feel compelled that way
19:25 eric256 i like free tools...i'm a mucher that way. ;)
19:25 eric256 has left
19:26 eric256 has joined #perl6
19:26 eric256 opps
19:27 Ash eric256: XEmacs on windows is grate
19:27 dduncan has joined #perl6
19:28 gaal eric256: i use vim from cygnus.
19:29 Ash there's a gvim for win32 as well
19:29 autrijus most of the time I use that too.
19:29 autrijus more used to it than gvim.
19:29 autrijus but sometimes eclipse is nice.
19:29 gaal to make the terminal not suck completely, i use a clever hacked version of putty that connects to cygnus.
19:29 autrijus (with epic)
19:29 autrijus gaal: oooh. url?
19:30 gaal autrijus: http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/
19:30 gaal only problem is that it's not up to date with mainstream putty
19:30 eric256 hehe. well this is the place to ask for ideas...  excluding vim and emac....ecplipse is good?
19:31 autrijus it's good if you have the prerequisite amount of ram.
19:31 geoffb & # lunch -- autrijus, ping me if you get perl 5 embed in a testable state again, and I'll try when I'm bak
19:31 gaal so with my real putty i get real BiDi -- i mean, wow, i never wrote a Hebrew email on linux in my life, and now i can, without HTML mail in mutt.
19:31 autrijus geoffb: I got it, but I want to make sure it works in both threaded and non-
19:31 autrijus geoffb: enjoy yer lunch
19:31 geoffb k
19:32 theorbtwo Cool, gaal.
19:32 gaal ooh, they updated their stuff to putty's version. neat.
19:32 gaal oh wait no, did i send you to the main site? oops :)
19:33 gaal ah, here we go. http://gecko.gc.maricopa.edu/~medgar/puttycyg/
19:33 gaal oh, and!
19:34 gaal for a totally sicksessful experience, you want to run that with GNU screen too
19:34 gaal which you get here
19:34 gaal http://gecko.gc.maricopa.edu/~medgar/screen.html
19:35 gaal but be warned, no detach/resume
19:35 dduncan does this error during 'make' of pugs look more like a pugs error, or problem with my system?  (GHC 6.4.1 final):
19:36 Blicero_ has joined #perl6
19:36 Blicero has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
19:36 dduncan Compiling Data.Yaml.Syck   ( src/Data/Yaml/Syck.hs, dist/build/src/Data/Yaml/Syck.o )
19:36 dduncan Setup: waitForProcess: interrupted (Interrupted system call)
19:36 dduncan Build failed: 256 at util/build_pugs.pl line 84.
19:36 dduncan make: *** [pugs] Error 2
19:36 dduncan it happened on 2 attempts
19:37 svnbot6 r7406 | iblech++ | New t/pugsbugs/t/pugsbugs/passing_the_pair_class_to_a_sub.t (:todo<bug>eds):
19:37 svnbot6 r7406 | iblech++ | Passing ::Pair to a sub fails (this is the reason for
19:37 svnbot6 r7406 | iblech++ | ext/Perl6-Container-Array/t/array-operations.t and
19:37 svnbot6 r7406 | iblech++ | ext/Perl6-Container-Array/t/array-fetch-store.t not passing).
19:37 eric256 is there a standard putty site?  searching for it returns quite a few sites
19:37 autrijus dduncan: so it always stop on the same Syck?
19:38 dduncan yes
19:38 gaal eric256: top google hit
19:38 autrijus dduncan: weird...
19:38 eric256 http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/ ??
19:38 gaal putty++, and (its author)++ also for writing that nice piece about coroutines in c.
19:38 dduncan more pertinent question is whether this happens to anyone else
19:39 gaal eric256: yes
19:39 dduncan who here has upgraded to GHC 6.4.1, and who hasn't?
19:39 gaal dduncan: as 7403, pugs builds on my win32 with either version of ghc.
19:39 eric256 gaal thanks...it didnt' realy look offical.;) i could jsut see someone posting a hacked version that collected server addressses and passwords too.
19:40 dduncan I was on 7405 ... try that one
19:40 gaal eric256: that apparently happened! but that is the site :)
19:40 bigh23 has joined #perl6
19:41 * eric256 tries to remember what other tools he is missing....hmm how about perl...;)
19:42 dduncan has left
19:42 bigh23 Is there a release date for perl 6?
19:42 eric256 later than today
19:42 eric256 early than never
19:42 bigh23 eric256: Anything more specific?
19:43 bigh23 I googled for it, but with no success.
19:44 QtPlatypus bigh23: A release date for perl6 has not been set.
19:44 bigh23 Is there any estimate? half a year? year?
19:44 bigh23 I want to know if I should get "lerning perl" which discusses perl 5.8.
19:46 eric256 yes. 6 will not replace 5.8 in the near future ;)
19:46 autrijus but 5.10 will, for some value of near.
19:47 offby1 has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
19:47 eric256 5.x and 6.x will probably coexist for a very long time. ;)
19:47 gaal is the "Expected:" string in verbose output officially part of TAP?
19:47 bigh23 eric256: OK, thanks, I will give it a try.
19:48 pjcj gaal: I believe so, shich
19:49 pjcj which is why Got can't be changed to something better
19:49 pjcj or the order swapped
19:49 iblech [FYI] New JS smoke up, 90.89% ok
19:49 eric256 wow
19:49 dduncan has joined #perl6
19:50 gaal pjcj: this is too bad, because it means that isnt(1, 2)
19:50 saorge has quit IRC ("Leaving")
19:50 gaal no, isnt(1, 1)
19:50 gaal proclaims "Expected: 1, Got: 1"
19:50 gaal which can be confusing.
19:50 saorge has joined #perl6
19:51 pjcj yes, it confuses me
19:52 pjcj don't take my word as gospel in thus matter though
19:52 dduncan well, I got the compilation to continue on past the YAML
19:52 gaal it's extremely tempting to fix, but i don't know what i'd break if i do :(
19:53 dduncan now there's a different problem
19:53 dduncan more like what I reported yesterday
19:54 gaal hahahaah! if you look at a smoke you'll notice red on ext/Set/t/overload.t
19:54 justatheory has joined #perl6
19:54 dduncan when/following 'Skipping Pugs', it gives a warning in gram.c about syckparse
19:54 gaal but looking at the failing tests you'll see they are TODOed
19:54 eric256 whats the feather servers domain name?  
19:54 pjcj gaal: why do you get that output from isnt(1, 1) ?
19:55 iblech gaal: I fixed that. The test descriptions contained "#", causing the harness to not recognize the TODO bug
19:55 gaal the reason: the desc contains a #, and the code that picks the # TODO up is confused :)
19:55 gaal yes
19:55 iblech d'oh, but I forgot to ci
19:55 gaal pjcj: you get it because the test fails
19:56 gaal iblech: i'm working on TODOing ext myself, so let's divide and conquer.
19:56 pjcj doh!  it's been a long week
19:57 iblech gaal: ext/Perl6-* will be fixed as sonn as t/pugsbugs/passing_the_pair_class_to_a_sub.t is fixed
19:57 dduncan the last few make failure lines say:
19:57 dduncan ld: archive: dist/build/libHSPugs-6.2.10.a has no table of contents, add one with ranlib(1) (can't load from it)
19:57 dduncan Build failed: 256 at util/build_pugs.pl line 135.
19:57 dduncan make: *** [pugs] Error 2
19:58 svnbot6 r7407 | iblech++ | ext/Set: t/overload.t: Fixed test description to not include #, so the test
19:58 svnbot6 r7407 | iblech++ | harness doesn't get confused.
19:58 svnbot6 r7408 | iblech++ | util/version_h.pl: The location of the .hi and .o files changed because of the
19:58 svnbot6 r7408 | iblech++ | Cabalization, thus Version.hs didn't get rebuilt. Fixed.
20:01 rafl iblech: For me the first item is readline.
20:01 rafl geoffb: Thought /usr/local is the default prefix.
20:03 wolverian eric256, feather.perl6.nl
20:03 eric256 thanks...it was among the numerous other things lost.../me mourns the loss of his old friend
20:03 Juerd eric256: You pinged me?
20:04 eric256 way long ago...now i don't have time but it was mentioned to me that you were looking for someone to run the automated scripts on feather
20:04 iblech rafl: Hm? You mean the readline bug from a few days ago?
20:04 eric256 just wanted to volunteer if you needed anything
20:04 Juerd eric256: That is true
20:04 Juerd eric256: Good; thanks
20:04 Juerd eric256: I'll copy the stuff over to your homedir soon
20:04 Juerd eric256: You can then do with it what you think is best
20:05 rafl iblech: Dunno. I'll try current HEAD now.
20:05 eric256 alright
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20:07 svnbot6 r7409 | iblech++ | Fixed ext/FindBin/lib/FindBin.pm, ext/Config-Tiny/t/basic.t, and
20:07 svnbot6 r7409 | iblech++ | ext/Config-Tiny/lib/Config/Tiny.pm WRT "use fatal" being in effect by default
20:07 svnbot6 r7409 | iblech++ | (at least in current Pugs).
20:08 rafl iblech: Same error..
20:08 iblech gaal: FYI, r7409 will be my last fix in ext/ for today
20:08 Juerd eric256: done
20:08 rafl iblech: Working on Config-Tiny? Please give me a method to read from strings and fhs. And maybe use proper OO.. :-)
20:08 iblech rafl: Could you give me some failing code?
20:08 rafl iblech: Yes.
20:08 Juerd eric256: It's in ~/auto
20:08 rafl iblech: Hold on, it's being uploaded to feather.
20:08 Juerd eric256: See also crontab -e
20:09 rafl iblech: http://feather.perl6.nl/~rafl/pugs_build.log
20:10 eric256 so every 15 minutes it rebuilds pugs on feather?
20:10 iblech rafl: I've already ported Config::Tiny to real OO, but it's hosted on FreePAN, as Pugs was not nearly ready for OO at the time I ported it. Limbic_Region then ported it to fake OO. So we might be able to just copy my OO Config::Tiny port to ext/
20:10 eric256 and parrot it would seem
20:10 Juerd It's funny that so much time and effort is spent by so many programmers and system administrators all over the world, just to enable nice prompts...
20:10 Juerd eric256: Yes, but only if they have updates available
20:10 geoffb rafl, yes /usr/local is right.  My complaints were that way too much was in /usr/local, and also in too many different subdirs of /usr/local.
20:10 geoffb It's getting better.
20:10 rafl iblech: Yeah, please!
20:10 iblech rafl: Ah, this error (I thought you were referring to P6 &readline). Sorry, no idea...
20:10 geoffb Thanks to you and autrijus.  :-)
20:10 rafl geoffb: --verbose please. What directories don't you like?
20:11 rafl autrijus: Please take a look: r7409 fails to build for me: 7409
20:11 rafl autrijus: Please take a look: r7409 fails to build for me: http://feather.perl6.nl/~rafl/pugs_build.log
20:11 geoffb Can't give detail right now, because I deleted everything before starting my embed build/install test, which failed to build
20:11 geoffb I will post details next successful install.
20:11 rafl autrijus: libreadline and the haskell readline package are installed.
20:12 rafl geoffb: Yeah, just highlight me.
20:12 eric256 was there anything specific that needs fixed? or am i just in charge of it incase something breakes?
20:12 geoffb rafl, will do (I assume using your nick is enough)
20:12 gaal iblech: ACK, thanks.
20:12 rafl geoffb: of course.
20:13 autrijus rafl: ack
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20:14 rafl rafl: Not reproduceable on feather, which is also a debian box, though.
20:16 dduncan I'm going to try isolating whether the GHC upgrade broke anything ...
20:16 Qiang has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
20:16 rafl Which ghc upgrade?
20:16 dduncan to 6.4.1 from 6.4.0
20:17 geoffb autrijus, how is p5 embed coming?
20:17 rafl feather still has 6.4.0.
20:17 autrijus geoffb: I ran into some Cabal-1.0 bugs.
20:17 rafl It works there.
20:17 autrijus I can commit what I have and let you test
20:17 geoffb autrijus, bleah
20:17 geoffb ok, do
20:18 dduncan I did both a GHC upgrade and applied some system security patches between when Pugs last compiled and when it failed
20:18 Qiang has joined #perl6
20:18 eric256 Juerd  the script fails because its trying to cd to your directories
20:18 dduncan right now, I'm going to start off with trying to compile the Pugs 6.2.9 off CPAN, and a fresh checkout of the repository also, under the newer GHC and system
20:19 eric256 i'' change to cd to mine...just didn't know if there is something else you need to change
20:19 autrijus geoffb: done.
20:19 dduncan if those fail, I'll try reverting GHC to 6.4.0
20:19 Juerd eric256: I have no idea, really.
20:19 geoffb autrijus, OK, making
20:19 rafl dduncan: I also have 6.4.0.
20:19 svnbot6 r7410 | autrijus++ | * various weird voodoo to get perl5 embedding working. work in progress.
20:19 autrijus can you put one .a file into another?
20:20 pjcj gaal: See I think it may not be part of TAP per se, but see http://www.mail-archive.com/perl-qa@perl.org/msg03999.html, especially chromatic's reply
20:20 * autrijus tries and see
20:20 eric256 Juerd: well you tell me...i don't even know what you are expecting me to do with it. ;)  
20:21 eric256 hey you changed the file in my directory....spooky
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20:23 dduncan I just discovered something else ... as of Pugs 6.2.9 ... having space characters in your current path causes 'make' to fail before it starts:
20:23 dduncan Darren-Duncans-Computer:/Volumes/Programming160/Parrot and Pugs distro archives/Perl6-Pugs-6.2.9 darrenduncan$ make
20:23 dduncan Makefile:449: *** target file `/Volumes/Programming160/Parrot' has both : and :: entries.  Stop.
20:24 rafl Can't someone reproduce the 'readline'-problem I run into?
20:24 dduncan I can work around this easily, but it doesn't look like something a script should have a problem with ... it should escape as necessary
20:24 rafl autrijus: Maybe I can provide you some debugging info now? I'll be offline in about 5 to 10 minutes.
20:25 svnbot6 r7411 | gaal++ | avoid readlink on MSWin32
20:26 tcliou has joined #perl6
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20:27 autrijus rafl: try commenting away line 130, among other lines, in build_pugs.pl
20:29 geoffb perlbot nopaste
20:29 perlbot Paste your code here and #<channel> will be able to view it: http://sial.org/pbot/<channel>
20:30 pasteling "geoffb" at 69.110.115.185 pasted "p5 embed dead again" (215 lines, 14.3K) at http://sial.org/pbot/13532
20:30 rafl autrijus: 132? (the one mentioning readline) - I commented it out. Still doesn't work.
20:31 geoffb autrijus, see new paste -- seems to complain more now
20:32 autrijus geoffb: yeah, I think I nailed it
20:32 autrijus rafl: :-(
20:32 autrijus rafl: I can't reproduce.
20:32 rafl autrijus: Hrm.. no way. I'll need to go now unfortunately.
20:33 rafl autrijus: I can give you shell access tomorrow, if you want.
20:33 rafl Bye!
20:33 geoffb bye, rafl
20:33 autrijus rafl: ok. bye!
20:35 autrijus geoffb: committing
20:35 geoffb pulling and making after realclean
20:35 svnbot6 r7412 | autrijus++ | * link against perl5 embed. it would work for static perl5
20:36 geoffb And it's off . . .
20:36 geoffb (sounds of steeplechase . . . )
20:37 geoffb afk for a few while this builds
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20:44 eric256 any svn gurus out there?  since i'm starting fresh i was hoping to svn most everythign i work with ....is there a quick way to create an empty repository and ilnk a directory to it?  seems like svn wants me to create, import, and then check out....which seems kind of silly
20:45 Juerd eric256: Root isn't spooky :)
20:45 autrijus eric256: svk import --to-checkout
20:45 elmex has quit IRC ("leaving")
20:46 eric256 autrijus do you have stock in svk or something? ;)
20:46 b6s has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
20:46 autrijus eric256: I happen to be its second committer :)
20:47 eric256 ahh ;)  website?
20:47 svnbot6 r7413 | autrijus++ | * rename perl5.[ch] into p5embed.[ch] to avoid silly
20:47 svnbot6 r7413 | autrijus++ |   case-insensitive filesystems.
20:47 autrijus svk.elixus.org
20:48 eric256 if i have many different projects (from random scripts to websites) are they better each in there own repository? or one repository for everything?  
20:48 michael autrijus, so it's possible to use svk with a vanilla svn (remote) repository, right?
20:48 autrijus michael: sure yes
20:48 autrijus it's just a client.
20:49 autrijus eric256: I prefer one repo for everything, but immv.
20:49 autrijus s/immv/ymmv/
20:49 eric256 http://svk.elixus.org/?SVKWin32 :(
20:49 b6s has joined #perl6
20:49 michael autrijus: do you happen to know whether it works with clients like TortoiseSVN or RapidSVN?
20:50 autrijus michael: it does.
20:50 michael very cool.
20:50 michael one more reason to convince $work to switch to subversion :-)
20:50 michael (from CVS, that is)
20:50 eric256 nm...page finaly came up after giving me errors several times
20:50 michael (I fear darcs is no option as they live and die with Eclipse's "Synchronise" feature, whatever that is)
20:51 gaal pjcj: i decided it's okay to change, and i made note of the lexical advice there.
20:51 pjcj gaal: will you change the order too?
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20:52 gaal no, wasn't convinced that's important. :)
20:52 svnbot6 r7414 | gaal++ | when `isnt(1,1)' fails, don't say you expected 1 (you expected anything but 1)
20:52 pjcj as you wish, but I'd prefer the expected first ;-)
20:53 gaal oh oops
20:53 gaal the expected already is first :)
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20:57 pjcj aha!
20:57 gaal dduncan: for when your build works: two tests in LKT are failing, please have a look
20:57 gaal i'm off to bed, i think we're pretty close to all green.
20:57 svnbot6 r7415 | putter++ | STATUS: p5 backend correction
20:58 autrijus gaal++
20:58 putter has joined #perl6
20:58 gaal i barely changed anything today :)
20:58 putter briefy...
20:58 * eric256 still odesn't have enough memory to compile pugs on windows... jeez
20:58 autrijus geoffb: how's the build?
20:59 autrijus eric256: hm? not at all, or just need to restart twice?
20:59 eric256 not at all.  750mb right now...gonna see if i can rearrange sticks and get a full gigi in here
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21:00 gaal ext\libwww-perl\t\base\headers-util.t is weird, but i'm too tired to track down the failure now
21:01 gaal good night!
21:01 autrijus eric256: this is very strange as I only have 768m.
21:01 autrijus eric256: what is the err?
21:01 autrijus gaal: night!
21:01 * autrijus turns to parrot embed
21:01 evalbot_7416 has joined #perl6
21:01 leo__ autrijus: don't forget to make realclean after svn up
21:02 autrijus noted.
21:03 autrijus but I'm testing 0.3.0 first :)
21:03 svnbot6 r7416 | autrijus++ | * dynamic perlembed _should_ work now.
21:04 eric256 rebooting and reorganizing right now...i'll let you know when i get back to the error though
21:04 leo__ okie - but realclean applies to 0.3.0 as well as trunk head r9400 - and any witsching between these versions
21:04 autrijus ok
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21:10 geoffb autrijus, sorry, afk for longer than expected.  Looks like it failed again, though.
21:10 geoffb Pasting . . .
21:11 pasteling "geoffb" at 69.110.115.185 pasted "P5 embed failure #3" (29 lines, 6.9K) at http://sial.org/pbot/13536
21:12 autrijus geoffb: r7417
21:13 geoffb OK, realclean, pull, build . . .
21:13 * autrijus hands geoffb "unoptimised"
21:13 geoffb Should I stop the opt build?
21:13 svnbot6 r7417 | autrijus++ | * first step toward parrotbedding.
21:14 * geoffb trying to minimize variables during debugging
21:14 autrijus well, go ahead then, it's valuable
21:14 autrijus seeing that I did not make clean
21:14 * geoffb doing 'make realclean; svk pull; perl Makefile.PL; make' each time
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21:19 geoffb Putter, I saw you changed Perl 5 backend STATUS to <50% . . . but the smokeserve said like 52% last time I checked.  What happened?
21:19 geoffb er, putter
21:19 autrijus geoffb: note the number of tests run.
21:20 geoffb yep, and that's why I'd said "of main tests (no ext/)"
21:20 geoffb :-)
21:20 geoffb Because otherwise it wouldn't match the way iblech counts PIL2JS quality
21:20 autrijus ah. well then
21:20 autrijus I think it's 52%.
21:21 geoffb & # brb, build still in progress
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21:31 geoffb ooh, looks like success
21:31 svnbot6 r7418 | autrijus++ | * parrot embedding cabalized. I think.
21:31 geoffb installing
21:31 autrijus good!
21:31 autrijus whew.
21:31 geoffb Are you ready for me to try a dual-embed?
21:31 geoffb w00t: Version: 6.2.9 (r7417)
21:31 autrijus goahead
21:31 autrijus woot
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21:32 eric256 the svk.elixus.org server doesn't seem very stable...
21:32 evalbot_7418 has joined #perl6
21:32 * eric256 means the web server...as i keep getting proxy errors
21:32 eric256 and i'm not behind a proxy
21:33 Juerd Proxies can be used on both ends
21:33 geoffb oh, btw, looking at /usr/local . . . the tests for PIL2JS are getting installed, presumably because they are .t.html
21:33 Juerd It can be very useful to cache your own website.
21:33 autrijus geoffb: yeah, but I don't think we need to do much about it now
21:33 Juerd Or to balance the load using a proxy
21:33 geoffb nah, just fyi
21:34 autrijus geoffb: unless you feel strongly, in which case go hack util/src_to_blib.pl :)
21:34 Juerd Or to integrate several different kinds of web server software on a single hostname
21:34 rafl has joined #perl6
21:34 geoffb Bah, it's been about 2000 revs since I built parrot.  What's the standard thing?
21:34 geoffb ah Configure.pl
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21:36 dduncan hello again
21:37 * geoffb hears The Cars in his mind
21:37 dduncan ping gaal
21:37 geoffb er, that was really fast . . . does parrot normally build in like a minute or two?
21:37 dduncan I've known about those failures for a few days ... they are related to hashes-and-arrays/pairs.t not working
21:37 dduncan when pairs.t works, LKT should work
21:38 Juerd Fuck.
21:38 Juerd It's not good to type "halt" in a remote shell.
21:38 Juerd Good thing this box is connected to an IP power switch.
21:38 autrijus Juerd: indeed
21:38 * Juerd should learn to use the power button instead of commands.
21:38 dduncan or, I could be wrong ... will look into LKT again
21:39 autrijus geoffb: yes, what a refreshing change from pugs.
21:39 geoffb autrijus, wow, impressive
21:39 Juerd ACPI works very well. IFF you use it.
21:39 autrijus geoffb: but not if you throw ICU in
21:39 dduncan fyi, Pugs 6.2.9 seems to 'make' fine under my current system
21:39 autrijus which is considerably longer than pugs.
21:39 dduncan will try a fresh checkout next
21:39 geoffb autrijus, ah.
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21:44 geoffb What should be in PARROT_PATH?  I used the root of my parrot checkout, with trailing slash . . . but Makefile.PL spewed several 'Can't exec "parrot"' warnings
21:44 autrijus geoffb: have you built it?
21:44 geoffb nod, and installed
21:44 autrijus geoffb: please chase Makefile.PL
21:44 autrijus in parrot_config
21:45 autrijus that needs to be fixed
21:45 geoffb nodnod, I just wanted to make sure I had the expected dir in PARROT_PATH,
21:45 geoffb before assuming the code was wrong
21:48 dduncan fyi, I'm currently on 'make' of a fresh checkout
21:50 eric256 is there some reason that GHC wont use the pagefile while compiling? i mean if its gonig to be a memory hog...why isn't it nice about it?
21:51 eric256 autrijus i'm just about to start a new make, then i'll have the error for you
21:53 autrijus eric256: cool
21:53 dduncan on a side-track, I have a question about semantics concerning whether a Perl 6 module goes in /ext or /misc ...
21:53 * geoffb smacks his forehead
21:54 geoffb Duh, it's for lack of ./ -- OK, can I add that and not break Win32?
21:54 dduncan if a module doesn't work "today" but it is expected to work by the time of the next Pugs release, can it go in /ext right away, or should it stay away until it works "today"?
21:54 autrijus dduncan: go into ext/ with failing tests.
21:54 * eric256 hands geoffb a giant pillow (with a 2x4 hidden in the middle)....here this will hurt less
21:55 geoffb thanks, eric256
21:55 autrijus back... was hacking install logic in parrot's build system
21:56 leo__ autrijus: thanks
21:56 eric256 geoffb its always the little things that drive us nuts (spent 2 hours fighting with an upload script the other day only to find a typo in the actual HTML...;) )
21:56 geoffb ouch
21:57 eric256 perlbot nopaset
21:57 eric256 perlbot nopaste
21:57 perlbot Paste your code here and #<channel> will be able to view it: http://sial.org/pbot/<channel>
21:58 pasteling "eric256" at 66.102.136.66 pasted "Memory Error" (7 lines, 393B) at http://sial.org/pbot/13537
21:58 eric256 ehh... i just realized that isn't the same error i was getting before
21:58 geoffb OK, committed (and some SVK DWIM), off for another build
21:58 svnbot6 r7419 | geoffb++ | Makefile.PL: SVK-friendly DWIM for parrot dir, plus exec ./parrot rather than just parrot
21:58 eric256 still don't know what it means though
22:00 autrijus geoffb: cool. so it built?
22:00 autrijus ah, still building
22:01 geoffb autrijus, yeah, still building
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22:03 * eric256 only now realizes that the evalbot includes the rev number in its now. ;)
22:03 eric256 autrijus any idea what causes that error?
22:05 iblechbot has quit IRC (Connection timed out)
22:06 j0sephi has joined #perl6
22:06 autrijus sorry, a sec
22:07 geoffb OK, dual-embed failed.
22:08 geoffb Pasting
22:09 pasteling "geoffb" at 69.110.115.185 pasted "Dual-embed failure" (268 lines, 29.8K) at http://sial.org/pbot/13538
22:09 eric256 ?eval $?VERSION
22:09 evalbot_7419 Error: Undeclared variable: "$?VERSION"
22:10 geoffb ?eval $?PUGS_VERSION
22:10 evalbot_7419 \'Perl6 User\'s Golfing System, version 6.2.9, August 3, 2005 (r7419)'
22:10 eric256 ahhh
22:10 eric256 i was suprised it managed to get the new version compiled and restart itself in 4 minutes. pretty impressive
22:12 autrijus eric256: this is defintely not memory related
22:12 autrijus eric256: ghc 6.4.1 unoptimised?
22:12 eric256 yea
22:12 autrijus try optimised
22:13 autrijus geoffb: fixed
22:13 geoffb committed?
22:14 * geoffb building as of 7420
22:14 svnbot6 r7420 | autrijus++ | * parrot embedding, try #142857.
22:15 geoffb autrijus, at least you don't have to do *everything* yourself.  Just the hard part.  :-)
22:15 autrijus lol.
22:16 dduncan fyi, the clean checkout had a failure under my current setup, whereas the clean 6.2.9 worked fine ... both at 'make' time
22:16 dduncan ld: archive: dist/build/libHSPugs-6.2.10.a has no table of contents, add one with ranlib(1) (can't load from it)
22:16 dduncan Build failed: 256 at util/build_pugs.pl line 165.
22:16 wilx You are missing Template Haskell support it seems.
22:16 wilx Forgot to bootstrap GHC?
22:17 wilx Or maybe not.
22:17 dduncan I didn't do anything special, just installed GHC
22:17 dduncan just a minute ...
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22:18 SamB dduncan: were you the guy who came to #haskell with that problem?
22:18 dduncan I never went to #haskell at all
22:19 dduncan I only mentioned any issues on #perl6
22:19 dduncan if Template Haskell is a separate install from the normal GHC, then I don't have it
22:20 rep it's not
22:20 rep afaik, at least
22:20 SamB dduncan: I think someone mentioned a similar problem in #haskell. maybe ask there?
22:22 autrijus dduncan: how did you install ghc?
22:22 dduncan in a minute ...
22:23 dduncan I downloaded this: http://www.uni-graz.at/imawww/haskell/GHC-6.4.1.pkg.zip
22:23 dduncan it had an installer, which I ran
22:23 SamB dduncan: in fact, I believe they figured out what was causing it...
22:23 eric256 yea!!! it worked
22:23 dduncan my make failure does mention template haskell
22:23 eric256 thansk autrijus
22:24 dduncan before the error line I reported, it said: *** Building: /usr/local/bin/ghc -package stm -package network -package mtl -package template-haskell -package base -package unix -idist/build -Ldist/build -idist/build/src -Ldist/build/src -o pugs src/Main.hs -lHSPugs-6.2.10 -L. -Lsrc -Lsrc/syck -Lsrc/pcre
22:24 autrijus eric256: cool
22:24 dduncan but SamB, as you were saying ...
22:25 autrijus dduncan: hm, it seems OSX wants ranlib
22:25 geoffb autrijus, same error at 7420
22:25 eric256 any ideas why opimized failed? and should we add a note to that effect somwhere?
22:25 autrijus dduncan: what if you run ranlib with it?
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22:25 autrijus geoffb: yow. sec
22:25 autrijus eric256: you mean "unoptimised" failed?
22:25 geoffb k
22:25 eric256 ehhh...yea
22:25 autrijus eric256: no, no idea why, must be perlbug
22:25 SamB I think I heard something about cabal not using libtool...
22:25 autrijus er I mean ghcpug
22:26 autrijus sigh I mean ghcbug.
22:26 autrijus (guess that shows how ingrained p5 is to me)
22:26 autrijus eric256: and gaal could reproduce it, so it's not your setup
22:26 autrijus somehow I can't though.
22:26 autrijus hm.
22:27 rafl OK, what causes my build failure (that readline thingy) is that ./Setup calls ghc with '-DPUGS_HAS_READLINE=1 readline' instead of '-DPUGS_HAS_READLINE=1 -package readline'.
22:27 autrijus eric256: it may worth documenting, but I don't know how -- in INSTALL perhaps
22:27 rafl I suspect it's a Cabal bug, isn't it?
22:27 autrijus rafl: ooh.
22:27 dduncan autrijus, there is a 'ranlib' on my system, but I don't immediately know what to do with it
22:27 rafl Cabal-1.0 as shiped by ghc 6.4.0.
22:27 dduncan I'm not an expert with the C side of things
22:27 autrijus dduncan: just run
22:27 autrijus ranlib dist/build/libHSblahblah.a
22:27 geoffb .oO( Why, after half a century of programming, are build systems still such a bloody pain? )
22:27 autrijus where the blahblah is tab completed
22:28 rafl autrijus: "ooh", what? :-)
22:28 autrijus rafl: look at your Pugs.cabal
22:28 SamB geoffb: because they either don't abstract enough or the abstractions don't cover enough
22:28 autrijus see where readline occurs
22:28 dduncan I'm svn-up again ...
22:29 rafl autrijus: -package readline.
22:29 autrijus rafl: so something is fishy.
22:30 autrijus rafl: try removing the two occurences of readline, each at a time, ./Setup configure and ./Setup build
22:30 autrijus and see if things improve.
22:30 rafl The define as well?
22:31 autrijus the readline -any
22:31 autrijus in build-depends
22:33 rafl Removing the build-dependency doesn't improve things. Removing the -DFOO -package readline does. Not sure if it will work as it is finished, though.
22:34 dduncan okay, I did a: ranlib dist/build/libHSPugs-6.2.10.a
22:34 dduncan but a subsequent 'make' gave the same error
22:34 dduncan will try Makefile.PL again ...
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22:36 autrijus rafl: I wonder if adding the -DFOO in will help
22:37 autrijus dduncan: a sec
22:37 dduncan btw, template haskell 1.0 is in my system, according to the makefile/make output
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22:40 dduncan autrijus, I'll wait to see what you come up with ... my other tries failed
22:40 autrijus dduncan: up and try again
22:41 svnbot6 r7421 | autrijus++ | * do a ranlib for OSX, prompted by dduncan.
22:41 autrijus just straight "make"
22:42 dduncan seems to be doing something right ...
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22:44 geoffb autrijus, ping me if you want me to try a dual-embed build again, my attention is mostly on $work right now
22:44 autrijus geoffb: yeah, I'm will fiddling with this on my laptop
22:44 geoffb k
22:45 dduncan still working ...
22:45 dduncan autrijus, your change got 'make' to continue on and generate the prelude ... now its on the second compile pass, working on Pugs.Run ... taking awhile
22:46 autrijus it would
22:46 autrijus but I think it works
22:46 dduncan I'll announce when something else happens
22:47 dduncan right, 'make' is done!
22:48 dduncan now trying a smoke
22:49 dduncan thanks for that ... good to have experts around!
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23:03 rafl autrijus: OK, compilation succeeded.
23:03 rafl autrijus: However, there's no pugs executable.
23:04 rafl autrijus: So what's going wrong here? There's -package readline in Pugs.cabal but ./Setup omit's the -package when calling ghc? Seems to be a Cabal bug to me.
23:06 autrijus rafl: hm, "compilation"?
23:06 autrijus ./Setup build
23:06 autrijus does not build executable
23:07 autrijus rafl: it may be a Cabal bug, but we don't need that extra -package anyway in the ghc cmdline
23:07 autrijus so maybe we can safely omit it.
23:07 rafl autrijus: OK, will you do the according changes? My development box doesn't have a connection ATM.
23:07 autrijus I'll do so
23:09 rafl Would be nice to put the diff somewhere on the net so I can do the same changes locally without needing to use websvn *brrr*..
23:10 leo__ autrijus: parrot embed/install is ok?
23:10 autrijus leo__: yes
23:10 leo__ woot - super
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23:10 autrijus geoffb: fixed (I think.)
23:11 geoffb r#?
23:11 autrijus still building here but got past the bogus point
23:11 autrijus 7422
23:12 geoffb OK, making 7422 after realclean
23:13 autrijus gawd
23:13 autrijus one remaining problem
23:13 autrijus src/global_setup.c:34: undefined reference to `parrot_get_config_string'
23:13 autrijus leo__: what should I link against?
23:14 leo__ installed exec?
23:14 autrijus ah, need to put ./src/parrot_config.o
23:14 evalbot_7421 has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
23:14 autrijus right?
23:14 evalbot_7422 has joined #perl6
23:15 autrijus hm weird, parrot_config.o is in the .a already
23:15 svnbot6 r7422 | autrijus++ | * remove the redundant "-package readline" from ghc-options at
23:15 svnbot6 r7422 | autrijus++ |   rafl's suggestion to work around yet more Cabal-1.0 bug.
23:15 svnbot6 r7422 | autrijus++ | * also, normalize the -D flags to not use =1.
23:15 autrijus I don't get it. :-/
23:16 autrijus it should've been caught by build_pugs line 126
23:16 leo__ $(SRC_DIR)/install_config$(O) \
23:16 leo__ after 'make install' in parrote
23:16 autrijus leo__: right, it's just linking against parrot by its own is no problem
23:16 autrijus somehow parrot+perl5 fails
23:16 autrijus however, I need to find food and (maybe) nap a bit
23:17 leo__ parrot_config is the uninstalled parrot
23:17 autrijus yeah, I'm linking against the uninstalled one
23:17 autrijus for this build
23:17 leo__ install_config knows about --prefix, to find it's libs
23:17 autrijus yup
23:17 autrijus the thing is why doing p5+parrot fails
23:18 autrijus yet parrot and p5 by their own succeeds
23:18 autrijus geoffb: I'll bbiab
23:18 autrijus but please see if you run into the same bug.
23:18 geoffb autrijus, OK, I'll paste the result
23:18 autrijus geoffb++
23:18 geoffb (when it comes)
23:18 geoffb autrijus++ # persistence in the face of adversity
23:20 * leo__ thinks that pugs install could just build install_config.o as the parrot Makefile does, then continue install
23:23 larsen has quit IRC ("later")
23:24 pasteling "geoffb" at 69.110.115.185 pasted "Latest dual-embed failure" (268 lines, 29.9K) at http://sial.org/pbot/13543
23:24 geoffb autrijus, latest failure pasted
23:24 geoffb (that was 7422, opt dual-embed, for those in the peanut gallery)
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