Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2005-10-23

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:02 Juerd buu: Hm?
00:03 Juerd wolverian: You can use the mail server on feather if you wish
00:03 Juerd wolverian: If it's temporary
00:03 buu Juerd: You are freaky.
00:04 Juerd wolverian: ssh -L 2525:127.0.0.1:25 feather.perl6.nl, then use localhost:2525 while the ssh connection lasts
00:04 Juerd buu: Why?
00:06 wolverian Juerd, nah, it'll pass, I think. I'm too tired to start doing weird stuff now. :) I'm just wondering when postfix will pick it up again from deferred...
00:07 Juerd wolverian: weird?
00:07 buu Juerd: 'oliebol'
00:07 wolverian Juerd, as in, 'things I haven't done before'
00:07 Juerd wolverian: It's a port forward. ssh listens locally (-L), and connects on the remote host
00:07 Juerd wolverian: And the rest of ssh you probably did use before. Or so I hope.
00:07 wolverian Juerd, oh, right - I don't have to configure anything locally?
00:07 Juerd wolverian: Indeed
00:08 Juerd wolverian: Well, your MTA or MUA, to use the forwarded connection (localhost:2525)
00:08 wolverian right
00:11 stevan_ has joined #perl6
00:15 Juerd buu: Oh, that's a dutch old/new year's delecasy (tastes like a sponge, though)
00:15 Juerd buu: The fun is that you can type 7083170 on a calculator, rotate it 180, and see this word.
00:15 buu Juerd: Fascinating!
00:15 wolverian hmm.
00:15 Juerd buu: Likewise, lol + lol results in hihi. "lol" is Dutch for "fun", "hihi" sounds like "heehee", giggling.
00:16 Juerd buu: Even better: "heleboel" (73083734), which means "a great many"
00:16 Juerd Which, for a number, is very meaningful
00:16 wolverian shouldn't a bounced message come back to me?
00:17 Juerd wolverian: Yes, but very often the "me" isn't so clear.
00:17 wolverian right.
00:17 Juerd wolverian: Are you using feather now?
00:17 wolverian no. I just think I've misconfigured the envelope address again here.
00:17 Juerd I can have a look in the logs if you want
00:17 Juerd Oh, ok
00:17 wolverian I forgot what to do with it.
00:17 Juerd Ah,Ah
00:17 Juerd s/Ah,//
00:17 wolverian and it's bouncing to the e-mail address that this server does _not_ deliver for
00:17 Juerd The envelope from is important, yes :)
00:18 buu holy fucking shit
00:18 wolverian how did I set that up, again?
00:18 wolverian sorry to be such a bother
00:18 Juerd How should I know? I don't remember all that stuff :)
00:18 wolverian at least this time I figured what's wrong myself
00:18 wolverian hehe :)
00:18 Juerd buu: Hm? :)
00:18 buu Juerd: It's saturday =[
00:19 Juerd wolverian: On an average day, I help out four to five people on IRC. I really do not remember much of it afterwards.
00:19 r0nny has quit IRC ("need of sleep ;P")
00:19 wolverian :)
00:19 buu I thought it was still friday
00:19 buu Holy shit!
00:19 wolverian okay, man 5 postconf helps. thanks
00:19 Juerd buu: It's Sunday here.
00:19 buu Juerd: I'm actually at work!
00:19 Juerd buu: So was I, an hour ago.
00:20 buu Juerd: I shouldn't be!
00:20 Juerd For personal matters, but still
00:20 wolverian hmm.
00:20 Juerd I want a sheet of orange reflector plastic.
00:20 Juerd Why is that so hard to find?
00:20 wolverian what should I put in as the envelope from?
00:20 wolverian wolverian@localhost? :)
00:20 Juerd wolverian: The address you want bounces delivered to.
00:20 wolverian well
00:21 wolverian that's actually fine as it is now
00:21 Juerd wolverian: And preferably, the same address you use in the From: header, if you care (I have it set to something different on purpose)
00:21 wolverian it's just that when my postfix can't connect to the relay, it's bouncing things to an address it can't deliver to
00:21 Juerd wolverian: @localhost not. It must be externally deliverable.
00:21 wolverian (since it would have to go through the relay)
00:21 wolverian which is weird. I would have thought the canonical mapping would have kicked in
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00:22 Juerd wolverian: Ah, the relay is the server that also happens to handle mail for the envelope from domain?
00:22 Juerd wolverian: 'cause that's a classic example of why that shouldn't be the same :)
00:22 wolverian Juerd, no, it's not. :)
00:22 Juerd (It very commonly is, though)
00:22 Juerd I don't know postfix. Last time I tried, I found it way too complex.
00:23 wolverian Juerd, the server postfix runs on is non-deliverable (it uses fetchmail). it fetches mail from helsinki.fi, and relays to mail.inet.fi
00:23 Juerd I know the protocol in detail, I know how many unix things work, but that wasn't enough to grok postfix.
00:23 wolverian if mail.inet.fi bounces, postfix tries to send through it again, to my helsinki.fi address
00:23 wolverian which is obviously retarded.
00:23 wolverian Juerd, right.
00:23 Juerd I prefer qmail :)
00:24 wolverian I tried to make it play nice with the university relay as well
00:24 wolverian but I just could not make the SSL auth work.
00:24 Juerd wolverian: Why is that retarded? I fail to see the obviousness.
00:24 wolverian Juerd, oh. it's retarded because the relay is itself broken
00:24 wolverian Juerd, I guess it can't know that.
00:24 wolverian s,it,postfix,
00:24 Juerd wolverian: That has nothing to do with the other configuration though :)
00:24 Juerd wolverian: You should have multiple relays :)
00:24 wolverian right.
00:25 Juerd Not that that is possible for most people
00:25 wolverian I'd use the university one if postfix would just connect to it
00:25 wolverian but I get a VERY unhelpful "Connection closed."
00:25 Juerd Use a proxy
00:25 Juerd And listen locally, unencrypted
00:25 Juerd Move the SSL out of the complex beast into something you can debug.
00:26 wolverian argh. :)
00:26 wolverian I don't know the protocol well enough yet
00:26 wolverian to feel safe doing that
00:26 wolverian albeit I guess CPAN has something to do exactly that
00:27 Juerd it goes like helo, 2xx, mail from: <sender@example.com>, 2xx, rcpt to: <recipient@example.com>, 2xx, data, Subject: Hello, World\n\nHi!\n.\n
00:27 wolverian auth?
00:27 Juerd 2xx
00:27 Juerd wolverian: Oh, you need authentication. That sucks :)
00:27 wolverian I _think_ I do.
00:28 Juerd Don't think before trying
00:28 wolverian I don't know what SASL is and if I need that, or just SSL, or if they are the same thing
00:28 Juerd Hm
00:28 Juerd Usually I give opposite advice.
00:28 wolverian hehe. ;)
00:28 Juerd But in this case trying won't hurt
00:28 wolverian right
00:28 Juerd SASL is smtp auth.
00:28 Juerd Not related to SSL
00:28 Juerd Except for spelling
00:30 wolverian ah. thanks
00:31 wolverian I need TLS, I think.
00:31 Juerd TLS is SSL, practically
00:31 Juerd It's newer.
00:31 Juerd Very often, when people say SSL, they mean TLS
00:31 wolverian yeah, knew that. I just think I tried it already
00:31 wolverian maybe my ISP doesn't like :25 though
00:31 wolverian (sucks)
00:32 Juerd I have a so much easier setup
00:32 Juerd An always-connected, always-on box that's entirely publicly reachable.
00:32 wolverian but you have a host that is deliverable, right? :)
00:32 wolverian right. :)
00:32 wolverian I would use the university server and run mutt there, but it's SunOS and entirely fucked up.
00:32 Juerd I get to ssh to it and read my mail from anywhere
00:32 wolverian its procmail is from 1995, or something like that.
00:33 Juerd 1995 didn't have enough spam for procmail to be designed for it :)
00:33 Juerd Same for sendmail
00:34 Juerd Be big, fork a lot, use memory, be generally inefficient? Sure, why not?
00:34 wolverian wait, I also need to authenticate
00:34 Juerd Oh, and security? Why'd you waste your time on that.
00:34 wolverian is that SASL?
00:34 Juerd Very probably
00:34 wolverian argh.
00:34 Juerd Authentication on a relay. I've never used that.
00:35 Juerd I'm used to IP-based authorization on relays.
00:35 wolverian it's for the intraweb only, outsiders have to auth
00:35 wolverian intranet, rather
00:36 Juerd That's the common setup, yes
00:39 wolverian this is so ridiculously complex compared to just using, say, Evolution
00:39 wolverian I'm a sucker for using mutt.
00:39 wolverian :)
00:40 wolverian s,using mutt,following the unix
00:40 wolverian mail principles,
00:40 wolverian thankyou enter.
00:46 Juerd Trying to follow unix mail principles in a very limited environment
00:46 wolverian true enough
00:46 Juerd Unix is nice, but it doesn't cope very well with being disconnected
00:46 wolverian I just want to see my mail whenever I screen -r :)
00:47 Juerd Of course!
00:47 Juerd Best advice I can give you is to get a shell account on a well connected box somewhere.
00:48 wolverian like feather? :)
00:48 Juerd Yes, but not like feather in that feather is for Perl 6 stuff only
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00:49 wolverian yeah. it's not that my box isn't connected - it just doesn't have a name
00:49 wolverian (that others could see :)
00:49 Juerd Then get a hostname.
00:49 Juerd There are a million ways to do this.
00:49 Cryptic_K has joined #perl6
00:49 Juerd Including a few dozen free dynamic dns services
00:49 wolverian I'm a poor student etc. yeah, I will.
00:50 Juerd More important is that you can receive connections on port 25
00:50 Juerd Many ISPs block this
00:50 Juerd That's because most servers are by default open relays.
00:50 wolverian oh, but if I want the box to be deliverable, dyndns isn't enough, is it?
00:50 Juerd dyndns would be enough, provided that ingress port 25 is not blocked.
00:51 wolverian it is not
00:51 Juerd When mail is delivered, the MX record is checked first
00:51 Juerd If there is no MX record, the A record is used.
00:51 wolverian and I do have a dynamic address
00:51 Juerd feather.perl6.nl has no MX record. It doesn't need any, because the same box handles mail.
00:51 Juerd What's the address?
00:51 wolverian chronoa.dy.fi
00:52 Juerd Remote host said: 554 <wolverian@chronoa.dy.fi>: Relay access denied
00:52 Juerd Okay, now start accepting mail for it :)
00:52 wolverian heh.
00:52 wolverian dy.fi also allows me to set an MX record
00:52 wolverian which isn't needed, I guess.
00:52 Juerd You don't need any
00:53 wolverian right.
00:53 Juerd That's for when the mail server is ANOTHER host
00:53 wolverian I think I'd only use [email@hidden.address] as the envelope from, though
00:53 wolverian hm.
00:53 Juerd That's very possible
00:53 Juerd And possibly a good idea
00:53 Juerd I use a different envelope from because I want to kill all bounces that are sent to other addresses :)
00:53 wolverian right
00:54 Juerd (This prevents lots of spam and spam bounces)
00:54 wolverian it also prevents from bounces being bounced back because there's only one relay
00:54 Juerd Lots in my case being a few hundred messages per day, on peak days
00:54 wolverian (which is broken)
00:54 Juerd It's still not accepting mail ;)
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00:55 wolverian heh.
00:55 wolverian I'm still thinking about this
00:55 wolverian because, for me, it only fixes the particular situation that the relay is broken
00:55 wolverian it might be better to just find more relays
00:55 Juerd It also makes bounces more reliable
00:56 Juerd Because there's a step less.
00:56 wolverian true
00:56 Juerd It makes bounces be push, rather than pull
00:56 Juerd Which means you get them sooner. Which means you can react quicker, and waste less of other people's time.
00:57 Juerd And it makes local configuration mistakes not travel to your provider, only to find out that this doesn't work either :)
00:57 Juerd In other words: debug info! :)
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01:11 Juerd Good night
01:19 Cryptic_K has joined #perl6
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01:21 Blicero does pugs do threading yet
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02:36 Cryptic_K dinner
02:36 Cryptic_K bbl
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03:11 wolverian Juerd, it accepts mail now.
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04:19 SplinterFL Does anyone in here travel from 'The West to the East' aka a 'traveling man'?
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05:23 woog 98,16,16,16,16why?
05:23 woog 98,16,16,16,16who is online?
05:24 * woog 98,16,16,16,16pp
05:28 * woog 98,16,16,16,16ÀÊÉù˵µÀ: "½ñ·¬Á¼Îî, ºÀÐ˲»Ç³, ËûÈÕ½­ºþÏà·ê, ÔÙµ±±­¾ÆÑÔ»¶. ÔÛÃǾʹ˱ð¹ý." ˵×ÅÅÛÐäÒ»·÷, ƮȻÀ뿪 #perl6
05:28 woog has left
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05:43 dduncan wha?
05:44 dduncan woog, use the utf8 encoding on your IRC client ... it works better
05:45 QtPlatypus I don't think he is here.
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07:33 autrijus good morning!
07:33 autrijus http://dirtsimple.org/2005/10/​children-of-lesser-python.html # nice read about PyPy
07:38 clkao i heard they are targetting js as well
07:38 clkao from the python lightning talks
07:40 Aankhen`` has joined #perl6
07:40 autrijus I think that is wonderful.
07:40 autrijus dynamic languages has long eschewed compiler technologies
07:41 autrijus but that is unavoidable if they are to go "mainstream".
07:41 autrijus (as in, survive in a static, IDE-dominated, heterogenous environment)
07:43 clkao we should get heterogenous source control working
07:45 obra good morning, autrikus
07:45 obra Where are you?
07:45 xerox Let me find an url about type inference in pypy, it's sort of a reverse Hindley-Milner :-)
07:46 xerox http://codespeak.net/pypy/dist/pypy/doc/​draft-dynamic-language-translation.html
07:50 autrijus obra: first row
07:52 Khisanth ?eval "A".."C" ¥ 1
07:52 evalbot_7700 Error:  unexpected "\\" expecting operator, "does", "but", "is", "^..^", "cmp", "<=>", "^..", "..^", "..", postfix conditional, postfix loop, postfix iteration, ";" or end of input
07:54 obra autrijus: ahh. exactly hidden behind borup
07:54 xerox Khisanth: what does ¥ do?
07:55 Khisanth zip :)
07:55 Khisanth ¥ looks like a zipper :P
07:55 xerox A zipper, or Haskell's zip?
07:55 xerox ahaha, I see what you mean.
07:55 spinclad rafl: installation report: pugs* install, libghc6-pugs-dev fails in post-install.
07:55 Khisanth I think both zip does the same
07:56 xerox ?eval ("A","B","C") ¥ (1,2,3)
07:56 spinclad rafl:   Setting up libghc6-pugs-dev (6.2.10-2) ...
07:56 evalbot_7700 Error:  unexpected "\\" expecting operator, postfix conditional, postfix loop, postfix iteration, ";" or end of input
07:56 spinclad rafl:   /var/lib/dpkg/info/libghc6-pugs-dev.postinst: line 8: /usr/lib/ghc-6.4/bin/ghc-pkg: No such file or directory
07:56 Khisanth what \?!
07:56 spinclad rafl:   dpkg: error processing libghc6-pugs-dev (--configure):
07:56 spinclad rafl:    subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 127
07:57 Khisanth ?eval "A".."C" »¥« 1
07:57 evalbot_7700 Error:  unexpected "\\" expecting operator, "does", "but", "is", "^..^", "cmp", "<=>", "^..", "..^", "..", postfix conditional, postfix loop, postfix iteration, ";" or end of input
07:57 xerox Khisanth: doesn't zip take two lists?  I'm a perl6-too-much-newbie :)
07:57 spinclad rafl: (end of install log segment)
07:57 autrijus network still spotty :/
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07:57 Khisanth xerox: I could have sworn that what you wrote used  to work :)
07:57 xerox Woot.
07:57 xerox Khisanth: »foo« ‽
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07:58 Khisanth »op« :)
07:58 xerox Still obscure.
07:58 xerox A-la `op` ?
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08:01 xerox pugs> ("A","B","C") ¥ (1,2,3)
08:01 xerox ("A", 1, "B", 2, "C", 3)
08:02 xerox Version: 6.2.10 (r7636)
08:02 xerox bbl
08:03 Khisanth xerox: the »op« is the "hyper" version of op
08:03 xerox ...that is... ?
08:03 Khisanth (or at least it was assuming someone didn't change their mind -_-)
08:03 spinclad rafl: i upgraded ghc and related packages to 6.4.1-1 and such, so that i could install pugs* 6.2.10-2;
08:04 xerox »¥« does not work in my pugs
08:04 Khisanth hmm it probably shouldn't
08:04 xerox What does "hyper" means, anyway?
08:04 xerox mean, even
08:04 Khisanth ?eval (1..3) »+« 1
08:04 evalbot_7700 Error:  unexpected "\\" expecting operator, postfix conditional, postfix loop, postfix iteration, ";" or end of input
08:04 sky_ ?eval quit
08:04 evalbot_7700 Error: No compatible subroutine found: "&quit"
08:04 Khisanth ok so the bot appears broken
08:05 autrijus the bot's utf8 handling is indeed quite broken
08:05 spinclad rafl: but libghc6-pugs-dev still refers to /usr/lib/ghc-6.4/... .
08:05 sky_ ?eval exit
08:05 evalbot_7700 Error: No compatible subroutine found: "&exit"
08:05 autrijus ?eval (1..3) >>+<< 1
08:05 obra ?eval die
08:05 evalbot_7700 (2, 3, 4)
08:05 evalbot_7700 Error: Died
08:05 sky_ ?eval CORE::exit
08:05 evalbot_7700 Error: No compatible subroutine found: "&CORE::exit"
08:05 autrijus ?eval %ENV
08:05 evalbot_7700 \undef
08:05 autrijus ;)
08:06 xerox (1..10) »+« 1  works, cool.
08:06 sky_ ?eval eval "sub foo { exit(1) }"
08:06 evalbot_7700 Error: No compatible subroutine found: "&exit"
08:06 xerox How does it differ from a 'map' ?
08:06 sky_ evil
08:08 spinclad xerox: @a >>binop<< @b  maps over both lists:
08:08 spinclad ?eval ("a", "b", "c") >>Y<< (1, 2, 3)
08:08 evalbot_7700 Error:  unexpected ">" expecting operator, postfix conditional, postfix loop, postfix iteration, ";" or end of input
08:08 xerox like lisp, in some sense
08:08 autrijus spinclad: Y is listfix not infix
08:08 autrijus so isn't subject to >><<
08:08 spinclad yes, sorry
08:09 xerox ?eval (1..10) >>+<< (10..1)
08:09 evalbot_7700 (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10)
08:09 * autrijus chuckles
08:09 autrijus ?eval 10..1
08:09 evalbot_7700 pugs: Prelude.tail: empty list
08:09 Khisanth ?eval (1..10) Y (1)
08:09 evalbot_7700 (1, 1, 2, undef, 3, undef, 4, undef, 5, undef, 6, undef, 7, undef, 8, undef, 9, undef, 10, undef)
08:09 xerox autrijus: what does listfix mean?
08:09 autrijus thanks, that's a bug. fixing
08:09 spinclad ?eval ("a", "b", "c") >>~<< ('1', '2', '3')
08:09 evalbot_7700 ("a1", "b2", "c3")
08:09 autrijus xerox: it means that "foo Y bar Y baz" evalutes the entire foo/bar/baz at once
08:10 autrijus xerox: instead of being left or right biased
08:10 autrijus i.e. (a Y b Y c) is not ((a Y b) Y c)
08:10 xerox ?eval ("a", "b") >>~<< ('1', '2') >>~<< ('x', 'y')
08:10 evalbot_7700 ("a1x", "b2y")
08:10 autrijus neiter is it (a Y (b Y c))
08:10 xerox fold rejecting its r or l :)
08:11 * xerox &
08:14 Khisanth didn't the bot's unicode handling used to work or was that just svnbot6?
08:16 spinclad how about  ((1, 2), (3, 4)) >>Y<< (('a',), ('b', 'c'))  # => ((1, 'a', 2), (3, 'b', 4, 'c'))  ?
08:17 autrijus Khisanth: that's just svnbot
08:17 * spinclad hallucinates >>listop<< is listop
08:18 autrijus I have no idea :)
08:18 sky_ make perl5-test?
08:18 autrijus make smoke-perl5
08:18 autrijus make test-perl5
08:19 sky_ oki
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08:42 sky_ ERROR from evaluation of /Users/sky/Documents/Hack/pugs/ext/La​nguage-AttributeGrammar/Makefile.PL: syntax error at ./Makefile.PL line 7, near "'Attribute grammars for computations over trees';"
08:42 sky_ svn head
08:44 autrijus sky_: fix it? :)
08:44 sky_ hahaha
08:44 sky_ :)
08:44 autrijus I think you can fix it in no time
08:44 Khisanth "you report it, you fix it!"
08:44 sky_ autrijus: if you go on http://evakitty.evaair.com/ with me
08:44 autrijus that will also motivate you to add your name to AUTHORS
08:44 sky_ :p
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08:47 autrijus oh well, I fixed it :) r7701
08:47 sky_ crap, I was trying to :)
08:49 autrijus sorry for my impatience :)
08:50 * sky_ tries pushing
08:50 * xerox wants more glyph-operators :-)
08:50 svnbot6 r7701 | autrijus++ | * Fix Makefile.PL for Language::AttributeGrammar (missing right parens),
08:50 svnbot6 r7701 | autrijus++ |   as reported by Arthur "sky" Bergman.
08:50 svnbot6 r7701 | autrijus++ | * Add sky to AUTHORS.
08:50 Khisanth xerox: there are already too many!
08:50 xerox But I do not know them!
08:50 sky_ crap
08:51 autrijus sky_: sowwie... I can revert my change!
08:51 sky_ don't
08:51 autrijus cool
08:51 xerox sky_: are you the same #haskell #scheme sky? :)
08:51 sky_ my login details aren't working
08:51 sky_ xerox: no
08:51 autrijus sky_: mm, we can fix it over lunch
08:51 xerox kay.
08:51 autrijus xerox: that's ski
08:51 evalbot_7700 has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
08:51 autrijus ski != sky
08:51 xerox Whoops.
08:51 xerox S K I :-)
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09:41 xerox Still playing with Â¥... how can I get its type?  I tried with ref but I couldn't succeed.
09:42 Khisanth not sure if that sort of thing has been "specced" yet :)
09:42 xerox Woot.
09:43 xerox That's why it works both on '0' and '(0)' ?
09:43 Khisanth not sure what you mean by that
09:43 xerox Isn't  0 :: Int and  (0) :: list of Ints ?
09:43 integral is there a difference between 0 and (0) as rvalues?
09:44 Khisanth 0 and (0) are both a list one item :)
09:44 xerox Hm.
09:44 integral () isn't a list constructor, xerox.  That's more ,'s job
09:44 xerox Ah.
09:44 integral but OTOH on a left-hand side (where context comes from) () can sometimes make the context jump from item to list afaik
09:45 xerox And a string is not a list, too?
09:45 integral of course not ;-)
09:45 xerox :-|
09:46 integral and list in perl doesn't really mean cons-list like in scheme/haskell
09:46 xerox Sadly :-)
09:46 integral hmm, I'm not sure.   I prefer to hide it's structual recursion inside map/fold, which is just like using for/map in perl
09:48 xerox What's the most common/used data structure in perl6?
09:48 Khisanth hash, array and scalar? ;)
09:48 xerox Hmm, it probably could sound as a stupid question - but I mean like how lists are heavily used in Haskell programs, or such.
09:49 xerox Ooh-kay.
09:49 xerox I just can't find something to play with :-)
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10:07 xerox Is there a way to do .pod => whatever_looks_nice_enough ?
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10:10 rafl spinclad: Thanks for the report
10:11 scook0 xerox: trying to read PODs?
10:11 scook0 I usually use pod2man or pod2html
10:13 integral perldoc does the normal manpage type viewing of pod
10:13 xerox scook0: Yes, I am.  I'll try, thanks.
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10:45 rafl Is there a way to tag something using svk without using the normal trunk/, tags/ layout of subversion?
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10:48 integral sure, just make up a work which isn't trunk, tags, etc.  I just copy stuff into my own //branches/foobar
10:53 rafl integral: Well, that's only local then, isn't it?
10:53 integral sure
10:54 rafl Well, that doesn't help me.
10:54 integral but as another answer, you can use a copy from anywhere to anywhere to "tag" something. you don't need the standard layout
10:55 rafl Yes, of course.
10:55 nothingmuch has joined #perl6
10:55 integral Well both of those things answer you question...
10:57 gilimanjaro has left
10:57 rafl Yes, thought I could avoid copying and therfor changing the layout.
10:57 integral I suppose you could write down revision numbers on a piece of paper ;-)
10:58 rafl I suppose I can't. I don't even have a pen.. :-)
10:58 integral heh
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11:57 svnbot6 r7702 | clkao++ | Don't build (stalled) perl5/ directories that doesn't have
11:57 svnbot6 r7702 | clkao++ | Makefile.PL.
11:59 rafl clkao: Just a "do the right thing" fix, right? There isn't a directory without a Makefile.PL there..
11:59 clkao ya, because i have a stalled blondie directory
11:59 obra clkao: poke sky?
12:00 clkao it was moved, but i already have some file built before, so svk didn't remove it for me
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12:18 clkao man, that's bad:
12:18 clkao clkao:~/work/pugs clkao$ time ./pugs  -B Perl5 -e 'say "OK"'
12:18 clkao Use of uninitialized value in string at /Users/clkao/work/pugs/perl5​/PIL-Run/lib/PIL/Run/ApiX.pm line 59.
12:18 clkao Use of uninitialized value in string at /Users/clkao/work/pugs/perl5​/PIL-Run/lib/PIL/Run/ApiX.pm line 59.
12:18 clkao OKundefundef
12:18 clkao real    4m2.446s
12:18 clkao 4 min to say hello world :~
12:20 clkao and it's telling me additional undef!
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14:36 petykoo has joined #perl6
14:36 petykoo hi
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14:39 petykoo is this perl6.2.10 "stable", or just development yet?
14:40 wolverian development.
14:40 wolverian there is no perl6.2.10, only pugs 6.2.10
14:40 wolverian see http://www.pugscode.org
14:41 petykoo ok
14:41 petykoo and is it known when will be the 6.0.0 perl?
14:41 petykoo or a roadmap or sg like that?
14:42 wolverian the pugs roadmap is on pugscode.org
14:43 petykoo coz there were interesting perfomances on the 1st hungarian perl conf, and i want to learn perl, but decided to wait till 6, coz it will be much different from the current 5
14:48 petykoo or is it usable now?
14:48 wolverian it'll be a while before the stable release of perl6. in the meantime, you can use pugs, which is not complete but does run many perl6 programs already.
14:49 petykoo ok
14:49 moskvax i was thinking about that sort of thing actually
14:49 petykoo i think i can wait...
14:50 moskvax i guess it isn't really worth starting to learn perl 5 now when much of it will change
14:50 Juerd It is
14:50 moskvax but i can't find anything written about perl 6 towards someone who knows no perl 5
14:50 Juerd It'll take quite some time before 6 is out
14:51 Juerd And knowing 5 will help you understand 6
14:51 petykoo hmm
14:51 Juerd The first books released will probably focus on people moving from 5 to 6
14:51 petykoo but if i start to learn perl5 and regex and stuff, i can drop almost the half of my knowledge...
14:52 petykoo i'll have to, i mean
14:52 Juerd No
14:52 khisanth_ has joined #perl6
14:52 Juerd You'll have skills. And skills have nothing to do with the language in question
14:52 Juerd The ways of writing things change, the underlying principles and ideas do not
14:53 QtPlatypus petykoo: No perl5 regexes are more or less a subset of perl6 rules
14:53 petykoo yea?
14:53 Juerd Yep
14:53 Juerd Notation changes
14:53 Juerd What you can do, and how you do that, does not
14:53 Juerd Except, of course, that in Perl 6 you can do a lot more
14:54 stevan_ autrijus: ping
14:54 petykoo hmm...
14:54 stevan_ is now known as stevan
14:54 Juerd petykoo: It will only get more readable.
14:54 petykoo maybe i'll should try out anyway..
14:54 Juerd petykoo: /(?=foo)/ changes to /<before foo>/
14:55 Juerd petykoo: http://learn.perl.org/library/beginning_perl/ is a good book for beginners.
14:55 petykoo thanks, i gotta go, but i'll be back in minutes
14:56 moskvax Juerd: thanks for the information
14:56 svnbot6 r7703 | stevan++ | Perl6::MetaModel -
14:56 svnbot6 r7703 | stevan++ | * keeping Chaos-unoptimized up to date
14:56 svnbot6 r7703 | stevan++ | * very very very rough sketch of the Object Space, this needs
14:56 svnbot6 r7703 | stevan++ |   much more work and thought
14:57 autrijus stevan: pong
14:57 autrijus freshly off lightning talk #1
14:57 autrijus #2 about to be on
14:57 stevan autrijus: nice
14:57 stevan autrijus: so i assume you dont have a moment
14:57 evalbot_7702 has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
14:57 autrijus you can type away
14:58 autrijus but I'll be able to properly respond only when I'm back to hotel
14:58 autrijus which is ~1hr from now
14:58 evalbot_7703 has joined #perl6
14:58 autrijus sorry about those conferences :/
14:58 nothingmuch has joined #perl6
14:58 stevan I am composing a p6c email, I think that will be a better forum :)
14:58 autrijus (but I try to remedy by signing on new committers)
14:58 autrijus good, we should use p6c more :)
14:58 stevan autrijus: don't apologize,.. you are our spokesman
14:58 Juerd autrijus++  # propagates ideas and wisdom IRL
14:58 petykoo i'm back
14:58 stevan hey nothingmuch
14:59 autrijus turns out I'm speaking again in copenhagen this thursday
14:59 * autrijus is feeling like Damian
14:59 nothingmuch hi ho
14:59 petykoo Juerd: so, you say perl6 will be more speaky?:)
14:59 nothingmuch like damian?
14:59 Juerd petykoo: Perl 6 rules will certainly be
14:59 petykoo OK
14:59 stevan autrijus: if only you could get paid (well) for all these speaking engagements
14:59 Juerd petykoo: Perl 6 for the rest of the language will be in some points, and be more concise in others
15:00 autrijus stevan: nah, it's all outofpocket
15:00 autrijus stevan: I'm getting good at travelling cheap :)
15:00 * stevan thinks maybe we should divert pugs resources to write a TPF grant
15:00 nothingmuch so what's been up this week?
15:00 stevan or even better
15:00 * nothingmuch has had a big deadline and has been giving his spare time to catalyst lately
15:01 autrijus nothingmuch: I talked with kane about policy files and multiversioning
15:01 nothingmuch policy files?
15:01 autrijus synced with obra about bringing it back and proto in p5
15:01 stevan if we can figure out how perl6 can fight terrorism, then we can get a DARPA US gov grant
15:01 autrijus and talked with sky about -BPerl5Optimized
15:01 Juerd stevan: Give terrorists committer bits; that'll keep 'em off the streets! :)
15:01 autrijus nothingmuch: policy files are what you use to decide which DBI to use out of the 16,384 DBIs instealled
15:01 nothingmuch ah
15:02 autrijus mm, "instealled". nice typo
15:02 nothingmuch -BPerl5Optimized sounds interesting
15:02 autrijus nothingmuch: yeah, involve handcrafted OPs
15:02 nothingmuch perl 5 ops for PIL?
15:02 autrijus yes
15:02 autrijus goal being keeping p5 a "Production" VM for p6
15:02 nothingmuch woot!
15:02 Juerd I still thinks that different modules with the same name will not work too great, if only for discussion
15:02 autrijus instead of just a "good to have backcompat"
15:03 Juerd Imagine #perlhelp. "Okay, nice, but before we can help you. Please answer these questions: What DBI is that? Which CGI module do you use? Is that LWP's HTTP::Headers, and if so: which LWP?"
15:04 autrijus "the CPAN one, of course!"
15:04 * stevan goes to compose some p6c ramblings
15:05 stevan &
15:05 autrijus Juerd: I think most people will use the default policy file shipped with perl.
15:05 autrijus which would prefer cpan:
15:05 autrijus I hope, at least.
15:05 Juerd I think and hope all will
15:05 Juerd Which defeats the entire purpose
15:05 autrijus nope
15:06 autrijus good by default, customizable if needed
15:06 Juerd It's never needed
15:06 Juerd Because you can load any module with any alias
15:06 autrijus I think that's where people differ :)
15:06 Juerd use MyDBI as DBI
15:06 Juerd Whichever the spelling of 'as' will be.
15:06 autrijus use perl5:DBI as DBI;
15:06 autrijus yeah, true
15:08 autrijus Juerd: I think having the ability to install DBI 1.46 and DBI 1.99 makes sense.
15:08 Juerd So do I
15:08 petykoo thanks, bye
15:08 Juerd But those are the versions of the same module
15:08 Juerd Rather than different modules having the same name
15:08 Juerd Anyway
15:09 Juerd afk  # bathroom's free. MY TURN! WOOOO.
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15:09 petykoo has quit IRC ("Bye everyone, if i missed. May the Unix be with you.")
15:09 * xerox feels Juerd
15:12 autrijus Juerd: I think DBI-1.34-cpan:AUTRIJUS and DBI-1.56-cpan:JUERD can be safely thought of versions of the same module too.
15:12 justatheory has joined #perl6
15:12 autrijus in my mind it's simply that the versionspec is now namespaced.
15:12 autrijus but they still need to mean, "conceptually", "the same thing"
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15:27 Liz has joined #perl6
15:29 autrijus hey Liz!
15:29 Liz hi Autrijus
15:30 autrijus I'm about to go on NPW lightning talk in 1 min :)
15:30 Liz thought I'd come and have a look...  ;-)
15:30 autrijus (will be back in a bit)
15:30 autrijus sure!
15:30 Liz ok
15:30 Liz have fun!
15:30 autrijus ?eval 'Liz++' xx 10
15:30 evalbot_7703 ("Liz++", "Liz++", "Liz++", "Liz++", "Liz++", "Liz++", "Liz++", "Liz++", "Liz++", "Liz++")
15:30 xerox haha
15:30 xerox ?eval "foo" x 2
15:30 evalbot_7703 "foofoo"
15:30 xerox ooooh.
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15:46 glasser ?eval "foo" xxx 3
15:46 evalbot_7703 Error:  unexpected "x" expecting operator, postfix conditional, postfix loop, postfix iteration, ";" or end of input
15:49 xerox hah
15:49 xerox powersets? :P
15:52 glasser that, or porn.
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16:25 Juerd Hi Liz
16:25 Liz hi Juerd...
16:25 Juerd Good to see you here :)
16:25 Liz yep... good to be here...
16:26 Liz don't expect too much from me though...  ;-)
16:26 Juerd I have no expectations
16:26 Juerd I think people mostly see what they do here as fun, not as work.
16:26 Juerd Or at least fun work
16:26 Liz well, then you expect fun, don't you?
16:27 Liz ;-)
16:27 Juerd Hm
16:27 Juerd Well, I expect conditionally :)
16:27 Juerd IF you do stuff, it better be fun to you.
16:27 Liz true...
16:27 integral ?eval my $n = 0;  sub hello_thread { async { say "hello #" ~ $n++ } } for 1..4 { hello_thread };
16:27 evalbot_7703 hello #0 hello #1 hello #2 undef
16:28 Liz hmmm...
16:28 Juerd There's a thread missing :)
16:28 integral I think it just doesn't get a chance to run
16:28 dduncan has joined #perl6
16:29 integral and no sleep in evalbot
16:29 Juerd integral: Try a sleep then
16:29 Juerd Oh.
16:29 Juerd Then a commodore 64 like sleep: "" for 1..15000 :)
16:29 Juerd Though 15000 may be a bit too much for pugs; I don't know
16:29 integral heh, we need an optimizer to spoil that trick
16:30 Juerd And since there is no optimizer :)
16:30 integral although I don't think that particular optimisation is that hard a one
16:32 Juerd I think it's a pointless thing to waste optimizer time on
16:32 Juerd It's not something you write on purpose without the purpose.
16:33 integral Juerd: hmm, well it's just constant in void context -> noop (perl5 does this), and then eliminating a loop with a empty loop body
16:34 stevan autrijus: p6c Object Space post is off,.. please respond with your comments :)
16:35 Juerd integral: The loop with the empty body elimination is what I think is pointless :)
16:35 * Aankhen`` goes to sleep.
16:35 Aankhen`` G'night.
16:35 Aankhen`` has quit IRC ("Melted M&M's on keyboard: delete children? (Y/N) [Time wasted online: 8hrs 55mins 29secs]")
16:35 Juerd integral: OTOH, for (1..much) { if (known to be false) { ... } } to be optimized away would be nice
16:35 integral hmm, yeah, I can't think of a case where you'd get an empty loop body after some other optimisation
16:35 Juerd integral: Forget I said anything
16:35 integral ah, that's a good one!
16:36 Juerd But!
16:36 Juerd We should discuss whether infinite and could-be-infinite loops should be optimized away.
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16:36 Juerd Or perhaps an infinite empty loop should just die
16:36 integral ah, yes, that's a nasty one.  I suppose the middle ground is ... yeah that
16:37 Juerd We have sleep for that.
16:37 integral but when should it die?  as early as possible or as late as possible?
16:37 Juerd At optimization time.
16:37 Juerd i.e. as early as possible
16:37 Juerd Certain death must always be asap
16:38 Juerd There's no point in executing the program if you know there will be a fatal exception later on.
16:38 integral should that rule be applied to typechecking too?  like if you've got: my $a = 5; $a.bark(); # should this die as early-as-possible?
16:38 Juerd And doing so would unnecessarily execute potential impurity
16:38 integral Juerd: there's the if (0) { while (1) { } } case, should that die when detected?
16:39 integral and that one might even depend on the order of the two optimisations
16:39 Juerd Yes, but "as early as possible", in the case of types, is still runtime.
16:39 Juerd (Unless you specify the pragma that promises you're not going to change types)
16:39 integral Juerd: ah, well I'd perfer it to be speced using words liek "as early as possible" so that when typechecking appears, people aren't surprised
16:39 integral hrm
16:40 Juerd integral: No. If there's an explicit if (0) { ... }, always count that as meant to be a temporary multiline comment
16:40 integral Juerd: and if (SOME_CONSTANT) { ... }?
16:41 Juerd integral: Dubious, but throw away the body for different reasons: looking through all of it, just to find warnings is a waste of time.
16:41 integral hmm, maybe there would be a "lint" flag to the compiler, which would do more extensive tests like this
16:42 Juerd The optimizer pass must be very quick, or optimization makes the program slower than without.
16:42 integral eg.  if SOME_CONSTANT is predicated on platform, you can catch it all on your dev machine, without testing it on all platforms
16:42 Juerd That is a nice idea
16:42 Juerd It could just be a standard test though
16:43 integral maybe this is perl6's equivalent of use strict, or use warnings/-w
16:43 Juerd No, those two shouldn't have great effect on processing time.
16:44 Juerd All of Perl is modular. A test can access the parser and the optimizer. Add a flag to the optimizer call, and have this be a t/stupidity.t
16:44 integral hmm, maybe the spec shouldn't say "as early as possible", but instead "the compiler is allowed to die earlier than runtime, if it feels like it"
16:44 Juerd No
16:45 Juerd "as early as possible" is precise
16:45 Juerd "it feels like it" is very imprecise
16:45 integral yes, intentionally
16:45 integral then you can vary whether infinite loops die at optimiser time, if you're doing batch compilation, or run-time if you're compiling just before running
16:45 Juerd This makes every bug a "it felt like it" case
16:46 Juerd I don't like vague specs
16:46 Juerd Or, as I prefer to call them: anti
16:46 integral what would be a bug?
16:46 Juerd Or, as I prefer to call them: anti-specs
16:46 integral the spec still says that it must die, rather than do something undefined
16:46 Juerd Then when it dies must also be clear
16:46 integral or should the spec say "this should die at compile time in batch mode, and run time in interpretive mode"?
16:47 Juerd The point of determination ("when possible") is not always predictable. But at least it's defined.
16:47 integral is it?
16:47 Juerd Never talk to me about batch versus interactive.
16:47 Juerd It's a programming language, not a shell. I find this a very weak thing in Python.
16:48 integral I didn't say interactive.
16:48 Juerd stdin must not be treated differently depending on such things
16:48 integral I said "interpretive", maybe I should have said JIT?
16:48 Juerd In that case: what is your definition of "batch mode"?
16:48 integral I have no idea.  that's a big hole in my suggestion
16:48 integral But what's your definition of "where possible"?
16:49 Juerd *when* possible
16:49 integral so that means I don't have to die if I don't feel it's possible?
16:49 Juerd That's the point at which all factors in making the decision are constant.
16:49 Juerd But if any of the conditions could still change, it's not possible to die yet.
16:50 integral hmm
16:50 Juerd As soon as the last condition turns to certainty, die immediately. This may be during optimization time, or during runtime. It could even be parse time or compile time.
16:51 integral hmm, yeah.
16:51 Juerd But when you know for sure that it's going to die, don't waste any bit or nanosecond
16:51 Juerd This excludes explicit dies, of course :)
16:51 Juerd You wouldn't want "print 'foo'; die;" to die during compile time
16:52 Juerd "Death imminent, not waiting around at - line 1" :)
16:52 integral hmm, I guess that's another lint only one
16:52 Juerd ?
16:53 integral like dieing on finding infinite loops inside unreachable if branches
16:53 Juerd unconditional death isn't a mistake
16:53 Juerd afk  # food
16:56 integral & food for me too
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17:00 ingy seen autrijus
17:00 jabbot ingy: autrijus was seen 1 hours 30 minutes 24 seconds ago
17:01 stevan ingy: he was giving a lightning talk a little while ago
17:01 stevan he said he would be back online when he got to the hotel
17:01 ingy stevan: thanks
17:02 stevan ingy: your welcome :)
17:14 Alias_ has joined #perl6
17:14 Alias_ autrijus: ping?
17:15 Alias_ Anyone familiar with the pugs subversion repository?
17:19 stevan Alias_: what do you need to know?
17:19 Alias_ Do you use the whole trunk/branches/tags/etc model?
17:19 stevan nope
17:19 Alias_ Under that situation, what is the protocol for doing branches?
17:19 stevan I am not sure why though, but it was like that when i got here
17:20 Alias_ Or haven't they been needed
17:20 stevan use svk :)
17:20 Alias_ So all branches are one person private branches?
17:20 stevan svk makes local branches easy, then if it works, you merge it into the trunk
17:20 stevan all done locally
17:20 stevan yeah
17:20 Alias_ hmm
17:20 stevan it works for Pugs,.. I am not sure it is a universally good technique though
17:21 Alias_ I am probably going to need multi-person branches
17:21 Alias_ You don't use tags either do you?
17:21 Alias_ tag-via-copy seems to suck extremely hard
17:21 stevan I believe (and people can correct me if I am wrong) but you can serve  your svk branch from your machine if need be
17:21 Alias_ You should be able to, they are just svn repos
17:22 Alias_ with some extra metadata
17:22 stevan yup
17:22 ingy hi Alias_
17:22 Alias_ hiya
17:22 stevan never tried it myself, but like i said, it *should* work
17:24 Alias_ ingy: So, has the Kwiki::Publish itch been scratched yet? :)
17:25 ingy Alias_: I realized later that basically you were saying about YAML, "The way that I interpret what YAML claims to do is not possible", which is likely true ;)
17:25 ingy Alias_: not yet, RSN!
17:25 ingy it's a good itch
17:25 Alias_ ingy: Well, my complaints about YAML are two things
17:26 ingy and I am planning on coming into a windfall of tuits in a few weeks
17:26 Alias_ One is that generalised cross-platform object serialize/deserialize isn't possible
17:26 Alias_ And two that you claim you can
17:26 Alias_ :)
17:27 ingy this is true. but yaml doesn't claim generalised cross-platform object serialization
17:27 ingy you are reading way to far into a simple summary
17:27 Alias_ Except that it seperately claims 1) To be cross platform, and 2) To serialize/deserialize objects
17:27 ingy s/to/too/
17:27 ingy again...
17:27 Alias_ Well, it claims to be cross-platform, that much is clear
17:27 ingy you are reading way too far into a simple summary
17:27 ingy even that is not clear
17:28 ingy it attempts to be reasonably good for reasonable language
17:28 Alias_ "YAML interacts well with scripting languages"
17:28 Alias_ plural...
17:29 ingy and if two people on two platforms can agree on a schema, then YAML can be a good choice
17:29 Alias_ Sure, but in the mean time you allow non-schema objects very badly
17:29 ingy it is always the case that there needs to be a contract of communication between to communicating entities
17:30 Alias_ blessing into non-existant classes for one
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17:30 ingy ok, so you are talking about yaml.pm and not yaml at this point
17:31 Alias_ I treat YAML as a non-broken implementation of YAML, yes
17:31 Alias_ Perhaps the reference implementation even
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17:31 Alias_ err YAML.pm
17:32 Alias_ If every implementation of a parser for a language is broken, is the language broken by design?
17:32 ingy good question
17:32 ingy I have no answer for that
17:32 ingy but I am working currently on new YAML tools for Perl
17:33 Alias_ Then can I make some suggestions?
17:33 ingy including a YAML::Simple module
17:33 ingy sure
17:33 ingy but not here
17:33 Alias_ #channel?
17:33 ingy #yaml is fine by me
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18:08 integral Alias_: I hope you don't mind me asking, but what do you need a multi-person branch of pugs for?
18:08 Alias_ not pugs, openopenoffice
18:08 integral ah
18:08 Alias_ But I hate the whole branches/tags thing, and I was curious how pugs deals with it
18:09 Alias_ since I'm trying to do this as much like an -Ofun project as I can
18:11 Alias_ wow, the US border fence doesn't go very far offshore... how many people a year try to swim around?
18:11 Alias_ wrong channel
18:11 integral hmm, I suppose cases where we could have used a branch was for things like changing run cores around (eg. introducting PIL),  but pugs instead just has all the run cores in parallel.
18:11 Alias_ yeah, in my case I need to deal with client and server halves being built by totally different teams
18:12 Alias_ Perl for the server, C#/.NET/Office for the client
18:12 integral ah, so you want the server team to have a known working client to test with while the client team break stuff
18:12 Alias_ So if we do an overhaul of the SOAP interface, both sides need to play
18:12 integral well, another thing that's done in pugs, is if you change an interface since everything is together, you can also just change everything that uses it too
18:13 Alias_ yeah
18:13 Alias_ But since I have two very different skillsets, that's not really an option
18:13 Alias_ Some of these guys literally won't be able to set up the environment to edit in
18:13 stevan has quit IRC ("This computer has gone to sleep")
18:13 Alias_ To hack the client you probably need WinXP, Visual Studio and Office installed
18:14 Alias_ And the server people are mostly linux
18:14 integral hmm, sounds like you really need two duplicate trees, and then have someone who does smerges between them
18:14 Alias_ All I really need is a well defined SOAP interface
18:14 Alias_ But if that should change, I want it to change on a branch
18:14 Alias_ So that all parties have time to adapt before merging
18:15 integral hmm, breaking everything has the advantage that things have to adapt
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18:29 Alias_ Which is not the effect I want if a million clueless Office users are running the plugin
18:29 integral that's what releases are for...
18:29 Alias_ My project is likely to be significantly lacking in PhDs
18:29 Alias_ Also, one it is widespread, I'll probably need to do release branches
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18:30 Alias_ So we can have small security/compatibility fixes/patches while having major new versions
18:30 lisppaste3 has joined #perl6
18:32 integral sounds way more organised than pugs
18:32 Alias_ It needs to be, unfortunately
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21:11 sky_ does haskell have a graph storage engine?
21:12 xerox If you want there is a delimited-continuations-powered zipper-navigated referentially-transparent monadic filesystem :-)
21:12 Alias_ define graph
21:12 Alias_ math or chart
21:12 SamB sky_: not built in, but I'm sure you can make one ;-)
21:12 sky_ Alias_: if I meant chart I would say chart :)(
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21:17 ingy hi sky_
21:18 Alias_ has left "Leaving"
21:18 Juerd What are your greatest Perl 6 fears?
21:18 ingy Is this a poll?
21:19 xerox Being not able to fully understand it at a certain point.
21:19 integral that people will try to do logic programming with junctions,  and store junctions in lots of variables, and pass them to other people's modules and classes.
21:19 ingy that it is the final version of Perl
21:20 * ingy looks forward to Perl 7
21:20 sky_ ingy: two things
21:21 sky_ ingy: foor boojum http://www.unfare.org/unfare/​2005/10/hello_kitty_air.html
21:21 sky_ ingy: I AM MOVING TO THE CITY STATE OF SAN FRANCISCO
21:21 justatheory has quit IRC ()
21:21 Juerd ingy: Sort of.
21:21 feDe__ has joined #perl6
21:22 Juerd integral: Can this be shortened to: that junctions will be abused?
21:22 feDe__ anybody, a little help for a tiny script...?
21:22 integral Juerd: yes.  I think junctions are only good for easily saying things like: if (1|2|3 == $x) { ... }.
21:22 feDe__ $pid = `egrep "^GEN_KEY_ID" $CONFDIR/sk_install.conf | sed -r 's/^.*=([-]?[0-9]*)/\1/'`; kill($pid);
21:23 ingy sky_: fantastic and fantastic
21:23 feDe__ $pid should've the process id that i want to kill..
21:23 sky_ ingy: I am going on the hello kitty flight
21:23 integral feDe__: err, that seems to be mostly egrep and sed, not perl.  Why not just write it as a shell script and use the kill program?
21:23 feDe__ but, it doesn't... (the shell part works perfectly! :S)
21:24 ingy sky_: when?
21:24 feDe__ because i need it to be a perl script :S:S
21:24 sky_ ingy: over christmas
21:24 sky_ business class is like 450 USD
21:25 feDe__ egrep "^GEN_KEY_ID" $CONFDIR/sk_install.conf | sed -r 's/^.*=([-]?[0-9]*)/\1/'   ---------> here, in my beauty bash, it echoes the pid that i'm looking 4..
21:25 Juerd sky_: Do you have any Perl 6 fears?
21:25 sky_ no
21:25 sky_ why would I
21:26 ingy sky_: check msg
21:26 ingy grr
21:27 Blicero does pugs do threading yet?
21:27 Juerd sky_: Many people do
21:27 ingy sky_: are you on irc.perl.org?
21:28 integral Blicero: yep
21:28 Juerd typing 'svk add fears' feels funny.
21:28 svnbot6 r7704 | juerd++ | Assorted fears
21:28 integral ?eval async { print "hello "; print "blicero" } say "goodbye"
21:28 evalbot_7703 Error:  unexpected "s" expecting term postfix, operator, postfix conditional, postfix loop, postfix iteration, ";" or end of input
21:28 sky_ ingy: yes
21:28 ingy I need to msg you but this fricking freenode needs me to do something
21:28 integral ?eval async { print "hello "; print "blicero" }; say "goodbye"
21:28 evalbot_7703 hello blicerogoodbye bool::true
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21:29 Blicero why's it called async
21:29 integral because it does things asynchronously?
21:30 integral although, note that until GHC 6.5's smp support arrives, these are only simulated threads
21:31 SamB they are green threads, useful for doing asynchronous processing and I/O (as long as you don't use FFI, anyway...)
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21:34 svnbot6 r7705 | juerd++ | One more
21:40 svnbot6 r7706 | juerd++ | A few more
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21:44 Juerd evalbot_7706: You be stupid.
21:44 Liz Juerd: don't insult the bots  ;-)
21:45 Juerd evalbot_7706: Sorry 'bout that. Your killing is stupid.
21:45 Juerd It doesn't kill itself, it seems.
21:46 Juerd Does Pugs have *any* IPC yet?
21:46 Juerd Of course it does. It has sockets. What am I mumbling.
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22:16 dolmen seen autrijus
22:16 jabbot dolmen: autrijus was seen 6 hours 45 minutes 57 seconds ago
22:17 Liz he said he'd be back after the lightning talk at NPW
22:17 Liz guess he got sidetracked by some scandinavians...  ;-)
22:18 dolmen thx Liz
22:19 Jooon I didn't see him after the lighthning talks. he said he was going for a short nap and then join the rest of us later (the sidetracky beer drinking scandinavians)
22:19 hlen has quit IRC (Connection timed out)
22:19 Liz I guess the nap got extended...
22:20 Liz he looked pretty exhausted already at the Amsterdam PM Social Meeting...
22:21 Jooon I still wonder where he gets his energy :) All his talks were very fun, especially the visual basic rocketh lightning talk which was like a normal talk, just much much faster :)
22:22 Liz yes, that was fun... and scary...  ;-)
22:22 dolmen It's past midnight in Stockholm... The nap may last for a few hours :)
22:22 Liz same here...
22:22 dolmen and her :)
22:22 dolmen s/her/here/
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23:41 svnbot6 r7707 | Ovid++ | Slight update to recipe.  Testing commit access
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