Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #perl6, 2005-11-09

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo | Niecza | Specs

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 theorbtwo G'night, laz.
00:00 theorbtwo liz.
00:00 liz6 g'night theorbthree  ;-)
00:01 leo and four me g.night 2
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00:16 svnbot6 r7912 | stevan++ | Perl6::ObjectSpace -
00:16 svnbot6 r7912 | stevan++ | * all methods in Bootstrap now have a checked return type :)
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05:16 gaal dduncan: I won't have time to hack .hs myself in the coming week or so, so by all means go for it if you want.
05:17 gaal rafl: does what work for me?
05:17 rafl gaal: pge support. You said it doesn't work on feather.
05:18 gaal SamB: er, of course. Did I imply that you can somewhere? :) The sourcy macos package "uses a binary bootstrap compiler"
05:18 gaal rafl: sec.
05:19 rafl Does someone know under what license autrijus talks are? I want to give a Perl 6/Pugs talk on friday and would like to steal excessive from him.. :-)
05:19 pasteling "gaal" at 192.115.25.249 pasted "pge not working" (3 lines, 143B) at http://sial.org/pbot/14193
05:20 rafl Try to use /usr/bin/pugs?
05:21 gaal long as the flight from .ch to .hk may be, i'm pretty sure he'll be landing by then :)
05:22 pasteling "gaal" at 192.115.25.249 pasted "no go with system pugs either" (4 lines, 264B) at http://sial.org/pbot/14194
05:22 rafl Hm. The system pugs error confueses me.
05:23 rafl Doesn't it work on feather only?
05:23 rafl Read as: Is there someone who has this running?
05:24 gaal rafl: let me test on my colinux
05:24 gaal but wait, are you doing parrot now too? wow
05:25 rafl Noone else wants to, as it seems.
05:25 rafl There has been a request for a Debian package for months and no one felt responsible, so I did.
05:26 gaal i think there's at least one other way to put that, but rafl++ nonetheless :)
05:26 rafl What's the other way? :-)
05:26 gaal so i should just dpkg -i everything from ~rafl/public_html/debian/ ?
05:27 rafl gaal: Not libghc6-* -- it's broken from SVN currently.
05:28 gaal s/responsible/capable/, for one. or knowledgeful of debian. or temporally able.
05:28 gaal ok
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05:29 rafl Well. It's not that much work currently. One release a month isn't that much.
05:30 gaal isn't it kind of an asymptotic thing? huge inital overhead, gets easier the more frequent releases are?
05:30 rafl If you packaged it once you'll only need to bump up versions in some places and everything works again. Nothing that you need really deep Debian knowledge for.
05:31 rafl The initial overhead wasn't that huge. I thought that first so I hestiated to do a parrot package for some weeks. I also started to do it in a branch so I could not break anything because I thought there were some major changes to the build system needed.
05:31 rafl But in fact it was done in only some hours and I merged the branch directly back some hours after creating it. :-)
05:32 gaal i meant the whole debian gig.
05:32 rafl I don't get you then.
05:33 gaal part of the overhead is learning debian packaging, getting to know/be known by the other debian people.
05:33 gaal if i had to package something once a year in debian, that once a year would be very hard
05:34 gaal if i did it every week, it'd be crazy at first but then sorta ease out. no?
05:34 rafl I guess that's right.
05:35 gaal fwiw: on my test machine, PGE fails in the same way it did with eric's autobuild
05:35 gaal not in the way /usr/bin/pugs failed on feather.
05:35 rafl It usually takes me less around 5 minutes to make a Debian package of an average cpan module now. When I started it took hours and others still had to complain about it..
05:35 rafl gaal: I've no idea then.
05:35 gaal in any case i doubt the problem is in the package itself.
05:36 rafl The problem with /usr/bin/pugs on feather maybe is. I'm not sure though.
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10:19 buu ?eval { 1 }
10:19 evalbot_7912 1
10:19 buu ?eval { 1 }->()
10:19 evalbot_7912 Error:  unexpected ">" or "-" expecting term postfix, operator, postfix conditional, postfix loop, postfix iteration, ";" or end of input
10:19 buu ?eval sub { 1 }
10:19 evalbot_7912 sub {...}
10:21 buu ?eval x => {1}
10:21 evalbot_7912 ("x" => sub {...})
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10:25 azuroth ?eval { 1 }.()
10:25 evalbot_7912 1
10:25 azuroth ?eval -> $a { $a }.(5)
10:25 evalbot_7912 \5
10:25 azuroth slash five, eh?
10:28 theorbtwo azuroth: evalbot, for reasons that I've never quite understood, often gives one level of enreferencing beyond what you'd expect to see.
10:29 azuroth ahh
10:29 azuroth I don't think I've noticed before
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10:31 buu eval: 1
10:31 buubot buu: Return: 1
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11:02 love_ANGEL has joined #perl6
11:02 love_ANGEL selam k0131zlar benimle tan0131015fmak isteyen varm0131yd0131
11:02 love_ANGEL ?
11:03 love_ANGEL alo kimse yokmu dur
11:03 love_ANGEL be
11:03 love_ANGEL sizi bekliyorum ama ben
11:03 love_ANGEL ?
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11:04 azuroth saluttt les pdddd, love angel!
11:04 * azuroth wonders whether "for @foo -> $x, $y, $x" is a mistake in the quickref
11:07 nnunley_ is now known as nnunley
11:10 azuroth I'm going to assume it is, and change the last x to z. take that!
11:10 theorbtwo Looks like a typo to me.
11:17 svnbot6 r7913 | azuroth++ | Changed quickref's control so that
11:17 svnbot6 r7913 | azuroth++ | for @foo -> $x, $y, $x
11:17 svnbot6 r7913 | azuroth++ | is now
11:17 svnbot6 r7913 | azuroth++ | for @foo -> $x, $y, $z
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12:25 azuroth "the list ctoring comma operator supplies this list context: sub *infix:<*> (*@things) { ... }" - should that be *infix:<,> ?
12:26 theorbtwo Quite likely.  prefix:<*> also makes some sense, but not much.
12:27 azuroth I also noticed it didn't mention * providing list context (but did mention ~, +, and ?) and thought that was a bit peculiar
12:29 rafl Well, $x, $y, $x could also be useful. Even if there could be a better way like @foo -> undef, $y, $x or @foo -> _, $y, $x
12:30 azuroth I think it actually assigned x to the first value it saw. but yeah, it _could_ be useful
12:30 azuroth it's a peculiar and confusing case for being in the quickref though, in my opinion
12:31 rafl Indeed.
12:31 theorbtwo I don't think we want obfu cases in our quickref.
12:32 rafl Don't we? Ooo :-(
12:32 theorbtwo Putting "_ = foo() # Explicitly ignore the return of foo." in might be useful.
12:34 rafl Is _ really perl 6? Where is it described?
12:34 theorbtwo Donno; just seen it alluded to on the chan.
12:35 rafl But I thing _ = foo() is ugly. foo() in void context does the same.
12:35 rafl Well, I think the _ is stolen from haskell.
12:35 theorbtwo But it's a simple example.
12:35 theorbtwo (_, $x, $y) = foo() would be an actually useful one.
12:36 rafl I think undef is Perl 6's _
12:36 rafl Just like in Perl 5.
12:43 azuroth good night, everyone
12:44 liz6 night, azuroth!
12:45 gaal liz6: hi
12:45 liz6 gaal: hi!
12:46 gaal thanks for the notes. :)
12:46 gaal what did you mean by best practices in regard to the function call examples?
12:47 theorbtwo Hi, liz.
12:47 theorbtwo And gaal.
12:47 gaal hey :)
12:47 liz6 foo( $a ) as opposed to foo ($a) ?
12:48 gaal is that in PBP? I don't like it.
12:48 liz6 I think it is...
12:48 liz6 someone pls correct me if I'm wrong...  ;-)
12:49 theorbtwo I wouldn't put a space between the name and the beginning of the arg list, because you shouldn't try to call perl 6 subs that way.
12:49 xinming liz6: foo( $a ) = foo $a; but != foo ( $a );
12:50 iblechbot has quit IRC (Connection timed out)
12:50 xinming foo ($a) is become a bit like, foo list( $a );
12:50 liz6 that's why I put a question mark in my comments...
12:50 liz6 so, please treat it as a slippo of my fingers..
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13:23 wolverian rafl, tentatively, ? (I think) and ! mean optional and required params that are ignored, in signature lists.
13:23 wolverian rafl, the same could apply to any binding.
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13:48 gaal sorry, was whisked away by $work
13:49 gaal I think I've settled on `sub foo (args)` in signatures and `foo(args)` in calls. `( args )` looks weird to my eyes.
13:50 theorbtwo To mine too, gaal.
13:50 gaal though in Perl 5 I often said things like for (@{ $listref }) { ... }
13:50 theorbtwo OTOH, I don't like that calling a sub like you write the signature will silently do the wrong thing in many cases.
13:54 gaal significant whitespace is teh weird, yeah. can't say it isn't useful at times, though!
13:58 rafl autrijus: ping
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14:04 Limbic_Region salutations all
14:05 kolibrie good morning, Limbic_Region
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14:06 liz6 rafl: I think autri is en route from helsinki to taipei right now...
14:06 rafl liz6: Ah, OK. ETA?
14:07 liz6 not sure: I wouldn't expect anything from autri in the next 24 hours...
14:07 * Limbic_Region wouldn't bet on that
14:07 liz6 ;-)
14:07 liz6 seen autrijus
14:07 jabbot liz6: autrijus was seen 23 hours 50 minutes 40 seconds ago
14:08 liz6 L~R: I guess that would be a record, no? 48 hours?   ;-)
14:09 Limbic_Region liz6 - there have been times where he wasn't around in IRC but was still checking in to svn
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14:09 Limbic_Region meant to ask you about your coroutine specs
14:09 Limbic_Region if I create a coroutine and have a yield in the body of the loop, does the coroutine work like a full-body continuation?
14:10 Limbic_Region and not like a p5 fancy goto?
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14:10 liz6 it's my understanding that execution will continue after the yield() at the next invocation
14:10 Limbic_Region IOW - can I resume inside a loop requiring initialization where in p5 (simulating coroutines with fancy goto tricks) you could not
14:10 liz6 regardless of where that is...
14:11 Limbic_Region ok - cool
14:11 * liz6 off to do some shopping and then back to $work
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14:59 robkinyon What's the difference between Ruby's coros and what is planned for P6?
14:59 Limbic_Region read S17
14:59 robkinyon thx
14:59 Limbic_Region rather - read S17 that's in the Pugs repository
15:00 Limbic_Region keeping in mind it was specced by liz and autrijus (with some influence by wendy)
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15:00 Limbic_Region IOW - it is a draft that @larry needs to stamp
15:00 robkinyon wendy?
15:01 liz6 my spouse...
15:02 r0nny yo
15:03 Limbic_Region in any case, Parrot has got the goods - the decision on the p6 side is how much/little to use
15:03 Limbic_Region and how to handle things like parameters
15:03 Limbic_Region which can go several different ways with strong supporting arguments for each
15:04 robkinyon liz6: Oh - I didn't know you were married. :-)
15:04 robkinyon limbic_region: Hmmm ... I'm liking Ruby's coros a lot
15:05 Limbic_Region robkinyon - I am Ruby ignorant, mind giving me an example?
15:05 svnbot6 r7914 | iblech++ | docs/quickref/data: Fixed somewhat critical typo, spotted by azuroth++.
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15:05 robkinyon one sec
15:05 Limbic_Region and have you read Dan's "What the heck is a coroutine" blog?
15:05 evalbot_7914 has joined #perl6
15:05 robkinyon LR: Yeah, I've read it
15:06 robkinyon i need to reread it after having learned Ruby, though
15:06 Limbic_Region http://www.sidhe.org/~dan/​blog/archives/000178.html
15:06 robkinyon my eyes glazed a bit cause i didn't have any experience. :-)
15:06 Limbic_Region yeah - fortunately for me, I was in #parrot at the time and got some real time explanations
15:07 Limbic_Region understanding how continuations and coroutines differed really solidified things for me
15:07 Limbic_Region but I would be happy to see how coroutines work in Ruby
15:07 Limbic_Region unfortunately - all implementations of coroutines that I know about are still just emulations of Knuth's original brain child
15:08 lisppaste3 robkinyon pasted "Ruby coros" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/13367
15:08 robkinyon That's from my port of Tree.pm to Ruby - it gives traverse() both implements and uses coros
15:09 Limbic_Region the case statement isn't required though right
15:09 robkinyon I use the case statement to determine which traversal method I'm supposed to do
15:09 Limbic_Region the yields could just as easily have been outside?
15:09 robkinyon yeah
15:10 Limbic_Region I don't see anything there that would lead me to believe there will be undesireable differences
15:11 robkinyon well, you mentioned a number of different WTDI
15:11 Limbic_Region 1 thing you have there is just what I was confirming with liz - that coroutines can yield and resume inside a construct requring initialization
15:11 robkinyon "construct requiring initialization"?
15:11 Limbic_Region in p5 speak, gotos can't jump inside a loop or a subroutine
15:11 robkinyon ah
15:12 robkinyon gotos can't enter a scope?
15:12 Limbic_Region they can as long as initialization isn't required
15:12 liz6 from Dan's blog:
15:12 liz6 "One thing to remember is that you can yield out of a coroutine no matter how deeply you're into it. Our examples are really simple, but you could be nested ten or twenty levels of scope deep in a coroutine and still yield out--when you re-invoke the coroutine you'll be dropped back where you were, ten or twenty levels deep, with all your lexicals put back in place."
15:12 robkinyon That's how Ruby's coros work
15:13 robkinyon plus, you can pass in a Proc object that has a completely different scope and yield to it
15:13 Limbic_Region in any even robkinyon, that's not the issue with different WTDI
15:13 robkinyon (which is important)
15:13 Limbic_Region the issue is with parameters
15:13 robkinyon ok ... ?
15:13 Limbic_Region let me nopaste
15:13 robkinyon k
15:13 Limbic_Region perlbot nopaste
15:13 perlbot Paste your code here and #<channel> will be able to view it: http://sial.org/pbot/<channel>
15:16 pasteling "Limbic_Region" at 129.33.119.12 pasted "coroutines and parameter binding" (24 lines, 356B) at http://sial.org/pbot/14202
15:16 Limbic_Region sorry - was filling in commentary
15:17 robkinyon huh
15:17 Limbic_Region what huh?
15:18 robkinyon lemme see what ruby does
15:18 robkinyon ok - ruby has a strict type signature
15:19 robkinyon so, "def foo ( a )" requires that there's a parameter every time
15:19 robkinyon Also, yield will only yield to the associated block
15:19 robkinyon So, you cannot yield to your caller - you only yield to the coro that you've been handed to
15:20 Limbic_Region hmmm - not sure I understand that last statement, but before you explain
15:21 Limbic_Region does changing the parameter affect how that parameter is bound
15:21 Limbic_Region for instance - does calling foo(3) where the yield is returning the parameter change
15:21 Limbic_Region if you subsequently invoke with foo(5)
15:21 Limbic_Region ?
15:22 robkinyon yield doesn't yield to the caller
15:22 robkinyon it yields to the associated Proc object
15:22 Limbic_Region *shrug* - I guess I need to understand Ruby to understand that distinction
15:22 robkinyon So, if you had "def foo ( a ) yield a", you would call it as "foo(3) { |x| print a }"
15:23 robkinyon You associate a block with the method that has a yield in it
15:23 Limbic_Region oh, I get it
15:23 Limbic_Region hmmm
15:23 robkinyon the caller isn't involved, save to potentially provide scope to the associated block
15:23 Limbic_Region would definately have to defer you to liz, autrijus, etc on that one
15:23 robkinyon heh
15:23 robkinyon I like ruby's coros
15:23 robkinyon they're very neat and clean
15:24 Limbic_Region while I can conceptually understand it - I have no idea about Parrot's implementation and therefore Perl6's ability to bend that implementation to your will ;-)
15:24 robkinyon hmm
15:25 robkinyon coros, as I think you're understanding them, allow the function to yield to the caller, then resume functioning where the yield occurred the next time it's called?
15:25 Limbic_Region yes
15:25 Limbic_Region where as a continuation can be resumed anywhere
15:25 robkinyon ok - in ruby, coros are primarily used to implement iterators
15:25 SamB Limbic_Region: Parrot is a VM -- what difference does the implementation make?
15:25 robkinyon for example, foo.each { |x| ... }
15:26 Limbic_Region SamB - a matter of emulation (or how much work it takes to get the job done)
15:26 Limbic_Region SamB - in p5, you can simulate coroutines - but only to a certain extent
15:26 robkinyon LR: You could implement them fully, but you would have to maintain all the state yourself within the coro
15:26 Limbic_Region for instance - goto's can't jump inside constructs requiring inialization
15:26 robkinyon You'd practically have to implement a VM within each coro
15:27 SamB Limbic_Region: maybe you meant Parrot's specification?
15:27 robkinyon you'd have to unroll everything. :-)
15:27 Limbic_Region SamB - right
15:27 Limbic_Region thanks for clarification
15:27 liz6 isn't that what continuattions are about?
15:27 Limbic_Region yes liz6
15:28 Limbic_Region but to make robkinyon's Ruby syntax work in perl6 likely requires some manipulation
15:28 Limbic_Region and I don't know how much or where to start
15:28 liz6 ah, ok, in that sense...
15:28 Limbic_Region which is why I deferred
15:28 SamB now if we were talking about, say, Python's VM, it would be "implementation", because there is no spec for that.
15:28 Limbic_Region and you would definately know
15:29 Limbic_Region so WRT my earlier statement, I should have said spec and subsequent implementation of that spec (as there are no guarantees the implemenation matches the documentation)
15:29 robkinyon well, it actually doesn't take much
15:29 * Limbic_Region wanders off for a sec
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15:30 robkinyon In essence, Ruby's coros are more syntactical sugar for P5's & prototype that happens to be at the end instead of the beginning
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15:31 robkinyon And, you get a keyword for calling that subref called "yield [ARGS]" instead of doing $subref->([ARGS]) yourself.
15:31 robkinyon Look at http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=506753 for a few different implementations of Ruby's Array.partition() in Perl
15:32 robkinyon In Ruby, the block is at the end where it's in the beginning in Perl5
15:32 robkinyon You could easily do this in P6 with a method signature
15:32 Limbic_Region liz6 - has S17 been handed off to @larry for their perusal?
15:33 robkinyon The only thing in Ruby is that you don't have to know about the block - it's just there for you unless you need to pass it along, as I did in my nopaste
15:33 Limbic_Region if so, perhaps robkinyon wants to post a question to p6.l as food for thought when they are considering it
15:33 liz6 L~R: nope, still working on it, while $work is piling up...
15:34 liz6 ;-(
15:34 Limbic_Region oh, well then I will shut up and let you get back to it
15:34 liz6 suggestions / patches welcome!
15:34 robkinyon I'll wait until it's posted to ask my question
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15:38 * kolibrie just saved several minutes by using pugs to do some number crunching on a YAML file
15:38 kolibrie (pugs)++ (Perl 6)++
15:38 r0nny (black perlvodoo)++ ;P
15:40 dada <<pugs perl6>>^++
15:41 dada ?eval <<pugs perl6>>
15:41 evalbot_7914 ("pugs", "perl6")
15:41 dada ?eval my $x = 1; my $y = 2; ($x, $y)^++
15:41 evalbot_7914 Error:  unexpected end of input expecting term
15:41 dada oops
15:42 dada my perl6 is rusty already
15:42 robkinyon ?eval <<pugs perl6>>^++
15:42 evalbot_7914 Error:  unexpected end of input expecting term
15:42 thei0s has left
15:42 robkinyon ?eval <<pugs perl6>>^++;
15:42 evalbot_7914 Error:  unexpected ";" expecting term
15:43 robkinyon ?eval <<pugs perl6>>^+ 1
15:43 evalbot_7914 1
15:43 robkinyon ?eval <<pugs perl6>> ^+ 1
15:43 evalbot_7914 1
15:43 dada ?eval <<1 2>> ^+ 1
15:43 evalbot_7914 1
15:43 dada ?eval my @a = (1,2); @a^++; @a;
15:43 evalbot_7914 Error:  unexpected ";" expecting term
15:44 dada ?eval my @a = (1,2); @a^+=1; @a;
15:44 evalbot_7914 Error:  unexpected "=" expecting "0", digit or fraction
15:44 dada ?eval my @a = (1,2); @a>>+=1; @a;
15:44 evalbot_7914 Error:  unexpected ">" expecting word character, "::", term postfix, operator, postfix conditional, postfix loop, postfix iteration, ";" or end of input
15:44 dada don't remember
15:45 dada ?eval (1,2)>>+<<(2,3)
15:45 evalbot_7914 (3, 5)
15:45 dada ?eval (1,2)>>+1
15:45 evalbot_7914 Error:  unexpected ">" expecting term postfix, operator, postfix conditional, postfix loop, postfix iteration, ";" or end of input
15:45 dada ?eval (1,2)>>+ 1
15:45 evalbot_7914 Error:  unexpected ">" expecting term postfix, operator, postfix conditional, postfix loop, postfix iteration, ";" or end of input
15:46 dada isn't this a bug?
15:46 dada ?eval (1,2)>>+<<1
15:46 evalbot_7914 (2, 3)
15:46 dada ?eval (1,2)>>++<<
15:46 evalbot_7914 Error:  unexpected "<" or ">" expecting term postfix, operator, postfix conditional, postfix loop, postfix iteration, ";" or end of input
15:47 liz6 has quit IRC ("User disconnected")
15:48 dada ?eval <<pugs perl6>> >>+<< <<perl6 pugs>>
15:48 evalbot_7914 (0.0, 0.0)
15:48 dada ?eval <<pugs perl6>>>>+<<<<perl6 pugs>>
15:48 evalbot_7914 Error:  unexpected "<" or ">" expecting term postfix, operator, postfix conditional, postfix loop, postfix iteration, ";" or end of input
15:48 dada heh
15:52 dada ?eval <<1 2>> >>+<< <<2 3>>
15:52 evalbot_7914 (3.0, 5.0)
15:56 Limbic_Region ?eval (1, 2) >>+<< (2, 3)
15:56 evalbot_7914 (3, 5)
15:59 Limbic_Region ?eval(1, 2, 3) >>+<< (4, 2)
15:59 evalbot_7914 (5, 4, 3)
16:03 dada ?eval <<j p 6>> >>~<< <<a h>>
16:03 evalbot_7914 ("ja", "ph", "6")
16:03 dada ?eval [~] <<j p 6>> >>~<< <<a h>>
16:03 evalbot_7914 "japh6"
16:03 dada yippee!! :-)
16:03 robkinyon ?eval <<pugs perl6>> >>++
16:03 evalbot_7914 Error: Can't modify constant item: VStr "pugs"
16:03 theorbtwo Hm, [~] <<j p 6>>»~«<<a h>>
16:03 robkinyon ?eval <"pugs" "perl6"> >>++
16:03 evalbot_7914 Error: Can't modify constant item: VStr "\"pugs\""
16:03 gbel has joined #perl6
16:04 theorbtwo ?eval [~] <<j p 6>>»~«<<a h>>
16:04 evalbot_7914 Error:  unexpected "\\" expecting term postfix, operator, ":", ",", postfix conditional, postfix loop, postfix iteration, ";" or end of input
16:04 robkinyon ?eval <$x="pugs" $y="perl6"> >>++
16:04 evalbot_7914 Error: Can't modify constant item: VStr "$x=\"pugs\""
16:04 robkinyon ?eval $x='pugs';$y='perl6';<$x $y> >>++
16:04 evalbot_7914 Error: Undeclared variable: "$x"
16:04 robkinyon ?eval my$x='pugs';my$y='perl6';<$x $y> >>++
16:04 evalbot_7914 Error: Can't modify constant item: VStr "$x"
16:04 robkinyon Gack!
16:04 robkinyon ?eval my$x='pugs';my$y='perl6';($x $y) >>++
16:04 evalbot_7914 Error:  unexpected "$" expecting operator or ")"
16:04 robkinyon ?eval my$x='pugs';my$y='perl6';($x, $y) >>++
16:04 evalbot_7914 Error: Can't modify constant item: VStr "pugs"
16:05 robkinyon ?eval my$x="pugs";my$y="perl6";($x, $y) >>++
16:05 evalbot_7914 Error: Can't modify constant item: VStr "pugs"
16:05 dada it doesn't do ++ on strings yet, maybe
16:05 robkinyon feh
16:05 dada ?eval my $x=1; my $y = 2; ($x, $y) >>++
16:05 evalbot_7914 Error: Can't modify constant item: VInt 1
16:05 dada no, it's something deeper
16:05 dada ?eval my $x=1; my $y = 2; ($x, $y) >>+<< 1
16:05 evalbot_7914 (2, 3)
16:06 dada ?eval my $x=1; my $y = 2; ($x++, $y++)
16:06 evalbot_7914 (1, 2)
16:06 dada that's unorthogonal
16:07 robkinyon ?eval my $x=1; my $y=2;(++$x, ++$y)
16:07 evalbot_7914 (2, 3)
16:07 robkinyon ?eval (2,3) >>++
16:07 evalbot_7914 Error: Can't modify constant item: VInt 2
16:07 dada ?eval 2++
16:07 evalbot_7914 Error: Can't modify constant item: VInt 2
16:07 robkinyon yeah
16:07 dada that's orthogonal
16:07 robkinyon LOL
16:09 robkinyon it's orthogonal to itself, but doesn't look very spec-ish
16:09 dada no no
16:09 dada it's unorthogonal
16:10 theorbtwo my $x=1; my $y = 2; ($x, $y) >>++ not working doesn't make sense to me.  The rest do.
16:10 theorbtwo ?eval my $x=1; my $y = 2; ($x, $y)>>++
16:10 evalbot_7914 Error: Can't modify constant item: VInt 1
16:10 theorbtwo Just making sure.
16:10 dada you can't do 2++ and you can't do (2,3) >>++
16:10 dada but you can do ($x++, $y++) and you can't do ($x, $y) >>++
16:10 dada that's unorthogonal
16:11 robkinyon or, rather ++$x,++$Y
16:11 dada well, the result doesn't matter
16:11 dada the fact is that ($x, $y) >>++ should be perfectly equivalent to ($x++, $y++)
16:11 PerlJam dada: depends on if () created a tuple (ala python) or not.
16:11 PerlJam if ($x,$y) is a tuple, then it's immutable.
16:12 PerlJam no lvalue there, only rvalue
16:12 dada nope
16:12 dada ?eval my($x, $y) = (2,3); ($x, $y)
16:12 evalbot_7914 (\2, \3)
16:12 dada ouch
16:13 dada ?eval my $x = 2; $x
16:13 evalbot_7914 \2
16:13 dada you see? it's orthogonal
16:13 dada no tuple here
16:14 theorbtwo dada: I think you are using orthogonal in non-useful ways.
16:14 theorbtwo The problem is that the ($a,$b) that >>++ is trying to apply to needs to work somewhat differently from a random list-forming ($a, $b).
16:15 theorbtwo It needs to act as the argument list to >>++, and get bound with :is rw, instead of :is copy or :is ro.
16:15 dada mmm
16:15 dada ?eval my @a = (1,2); @a >>++; @a
16:15 evalbot_7914 Error: Can't modify constant item: VInt 1
16:15 theorbtwo OK.
16:15 theorbtwo Now I don't know WTF is going on.
16:15 dada it's the same, I guess
16:16 dada ?eval my @a = (1,2); @a++; @a
16:16 evalbot_7914 [3,]
16:16 dada !!!
16:16 theorbtwo @a is taken in scalar context, get 2, ++ that, assign it back to @a.
16:17 SamB has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
16:17 dada yes, right
16:17 theorbtwo ?eval my @a = (1,1); @a++; @a
16:17 evalbot_7914 [3,]
16:17 dada ?eval my @a = (1,2,3,4); @a++; @a
16:17 evalbot_7914 [5,]
16:17 dada ok
16:18 theorbtwo I'm not real sure that's what it should do, but I can't think of anything saner for it to do.
16:18 broquaint It should die. Loudly.
16:19 dada 1;
16:19 theorbtwo "Die loudly" seems like a fairly good option, but how does it do that without making +@a or @a=3 not DTRT?
16:20 dada mmm
16:20 dada @a=3 ?
16:20 broquaint Surely it would just be: method postfix:<++>() { die "Don't do that" }, or am I missing something?
16:20 dada shouldn't that be interpreted as @a=(3) ?
16:21 dada ?eval @a = 3; @a
16:21 evalbot_7914 Error: Undeclared variable: "@a"
16:21 dada ?eval my @a = 3; @a
16:21 evalbot_7914 [3,]
16:21 dada ?eval my @a = (3); @a
16:21 evalbot_7914 [3,]
16:21 dada it's a different thing
16:21 dada err, no, wait, it's not that different
16:22 broquaint Calling a scalar mutator on an array shouldn't work (unless it's overloaded, of course).
16:23 SamB has joined #perl6
16:23 dada ?eval my @a = (42, 43, 44); @a += 1; @a
16:23 evalbot_7914 [4.0,]
16:24 eric256 has joined #perl6
16:24 broquaint Odd that it converted to a float.
16:24 dada ?eval +"1"
16:24 evalbot_7914 1.0
16:25 broquaint Wacky.
16:25 dada numification works with floats, it seems
16:25 dada anyway, the >>++ problem croaking about constant items is a bug, IMHO
16:26 broquaint Yeah, I thought I'd marked that up in a test before. Maybe I never got around to it.
16:26 broquaint Or figured it'd be fixed RSN.
16:26 * eric256 tries feathers web chat...this is cool
16:27 eric256 ?eval (+"1").ref
16:27 evalbot_7914 ::Num
16:27 dada ?eval (1).ref
16:27 evalbot_7914 ::Int
16:27 dada ?eval (+"1.2").ref
16:27 evalbot_7914 ::Num
16:27 theorbtwo (+1.ref)
16:27 broquaint ?eval 0.1.ref
16:27 evalbot_7914 ::Rat
16:27 theorbtwo ?eval (+1.ref)
16:27 evalbot_7914 Error: cannot cast from VType (mkType "Int") to Double (VNum)
16:28 theorbtwo ?eval (+1).ref
16:28 evalbot_7914 ::Int
16:28 dada ?eval (1.2).ref
16:28 evalbot_7914 ::Rat
16:28 dada mmm?
16:28 dada ?eval +(1.2).ref
16:28 evalbot_7914 Error: cannot cast from VType (mkType "Rat") to Double (VNum)
16:28 theorbtwo Whew.  If the + operator changed the type on things that were already numeric, then I'd be worried.
16:28 eric256 pugs has a couple fo number types ;)
16:29 theorbtwo Int for integers, Num for floats, Rat for rationals.
16:29 dada ?eval (+(1.2)).ref
16:29 evalbot_7914 ::Rat
16:29 dada ?eval my $x = 1.2; $x.ref
16:29 evalbot_7914 ::Rat
16:29 theorbtwo ?eval (1/3.14).ref
16:29 evalbot_7914 ::Rat
16:29 * Limbic_Region would still love to have a B&D way of declaring non-mutable datatypes that would blow up with prejudice at compile time if anything tries to cast them otherwise
16:29 theorbtwo Odd; I expected that to be a Num.
16:29 geoffb has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
16:30 broquaint use SML;
16:30 Limbic_Region ;-)
16:31 broquaint Or perhaps some fancy perl6 way: use lang :SML; # Mmm, non-backward-compatible.
16:31 theorbtwo use SML sounds right to me... not that I know what SML is...
16:31 Limbic_Region 99% of the time, I am not going to care that I have lost a few optimization possibilities to have flexibility in my programs
16:32 hlen has quit IRC ("removing dvd drive")
16:32 Limbic_Region actually - it is probably closer to 99.95%
16:32 broquaint Standard ML, the language MJD bangs on about in his Strong Typing article.
16:32 dada perl6 -pedantic -wall
16:34 justatheory has quit IRC ()
16:36 iblech has joined #perl6
16:41 evalbot_7914 has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
16:41 svnbot6 r7915 | kane++ |  r123@coke:  kane | 2005-11-09 17:39:55 +0100
16:41 svnbot6 r7915 | kane++ |  * update S22 with kane's work in progress.. starting small with metadata -> package creation
16:41 svnbot6 r7915 | kane++ |  * describe what we have and where we should go
16:41 svnbot6 r7915 | kane++ |  * note the p4 prototype2 dir where live code can be found
16:41 svnbot6 r7915 | kane++ |  * move all previous notes to the header:
16:41 svnbot6 r7915 | kane++ |      =head1 Past Rantings/Notes/Etc
16:41 evalbot_7915 has joined #perl6
16:45 r0nny yo
16:45 xinming hmm, who wrote the cperl-mode.el for Emacs please?
16:46 Limbic_Region xinming - if it is in the Pugs repository - use blame
16:47 geoffb has joined #perl6
16:47 theorbtwo Limbic, cperl-mode is for perl 5 code.
16:48 theorbtwo I seem to recall it being updated by somebody on p5p lately, though.
16:49 autrijus it's since adopted p6-fu
16:49 Limbic_Region ok - but it appears that renormalist is responsible for putting it in the Pugs repository
16:49 autrijus using a (defun cperl-looks-like-perl6)
16:49 * Limbic_Region wins the bet
16:49 Limbic_Region hey autrijus
16:49 autrijus greetings. just back to .tw and the net
16:50 Limbic_Region right - liz6 suggested another 24 hours, I said don't bet on it
16:50 autrijus finished the book jhi gave me during the plane trip
16:50 Limbic_Region xinming - Steffen "renormalist" Schwigon   (SCHWIGON) is the one that apparently put the file in the Pugs repository
16:50 autrijus "Unicode Demystified" - a mere 900 pages
16:50 autrijus my eyes hurt ;)
16:50 theorbtwo 900!
16:51 * theorbtwo didn't know Unicode was that Mysterous in the first place.
16:51 PerlJam theorbtwo: depends on which end you're looking at it from.
16:51 autrijus I learned all about Hangul layout, Arabic shaping, BiDi and vertical, Han character composition forms, diacritical stacks, etc.
16:51 xinming Limbic_Region: hmm, thanks, But It seems, the file has problem working with cvs version of Emacs.
16:52 xinming Limbic_Region: there will be a message while loading the file. :-/
16:53 Limbic_Region *shrug*, I use a real editor - vi
16:53 * Limbic_Region ducks
16:53 * eric256 pictures purl six written vertiacly. hmmm
16:53 Limbic_Region autrijus - I speak a bit of Hangul
16:53 * autrijus wonders who to charge with maintaining S15
16:53 autrijus (Unicode)
16:53 Limbic_Region it is one of the most scientific written languages ever created
16:54 xinming by the way, anyone here knows why .p6 is chosen instead of .pl6 as extension.? it seems that .pl6 be more suitable.
16:54 autrijus Limbic_Region: ooh, cool. yeah, it's very computational
16:54 PerlJam autrijus: clearly you are the best choice!  ;-)
16:54 Limbic_Region which happened only about 500 years ago
16:54 PerlJam xinming: no way!
16:54 autrijus PerlJam: clearly I'm not ;) dan kogai maybe
16:54 xinming PerlJam: Why?
16:54 Limbic_Region the spoken language (much older) was previously written in chinese and only the very affluent could read/write
16:54 PerlJam autrijus: oh, Dan would be an excellent choice.
16:54 eric256 xinming:  .pl, .pm, .p6  (all two letters. don't break the pattern!)
16:55 autrijus xinming: I think extensions are somewhat bogus, and you can certainly call perl6 programs .pl
16:55 theorbtwo Yeah, so far I've simply gotten away with ignoring non-latin-based languages, and ignoring the actually putting characters on the screen bit.  (The former being hard since I don't know any, and the later being somebody else's problem.)
16:55 Limbic_Region then came the 3rd king (his older two brothers abdicated so he could take the thrown) got all the countries bad @$$ linguists/scientists together to create a written language accessible to everyone
16:55 xinming eric256: well, this makes sense. :-)
16:55 PerlJam xinming: .pl6 is aesthetically displeasing for a variety of reasons
16:56 PerlJam xinming: besides .pl has a troubled history
16:56 theorbtwo So: Unicode isn't mysterious if you ignore the hard parts.
16:57 eric256 although if we use pl6 we could rename the languag plsix pronounced pel-ix ;)
16:58 PerlJam eric256: plsix == please icks
16:58 hlen has joined #perl6
16:59 * Limbic_Region plans on compiling all of his p6 programs to byte code so the .pbc extension makes sense ;-)
17:00 autrijus Limbic_Region: as soon as lexpad is there we can have -CPIR.PBC :)
17:00 xinming autrijus: hmm, I know, on Os which determines the file is executable is by an attribute. But On Os which isn't, the extension is used. that's why I think .pl and .pl6 is better, as some program will generate .p1 .p2 .p3 for packages(though there isn't one), hmm, IIRC, winrar use this scheme if you compress a large file and divide them into small part.
17:00 autrijus or should it be -CParrot.PBC
17:00 Limbic_Region has quit IRC ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
17:00 autrijus xinming: I don't think winrar uses .p1 etc... or I might be wrong
17:01 LimbicRegion has joined #perl6
17:01 LimbicRegion grrr - I hate when that happens
17:01 mtve has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
17:01 theorbtwo No, it uses r?? -- rar and r00, r01...
17:01 xinming autrijus: winrar don't use .p1 or .p2. It use r01 r02 r03...
17:01 autrijus right
17:02 LimbicRegion autrijus - jhorwitz showed up in #parrot today asking about the state of Pugs/Parrot interopability (specifically with objects)
17:02 LimbicRegion I mentioned the "awaiting lex implementation"
17:02 LimbicRegion and pointed him to your "day before parrot release" journal entry
17:02 xinming hmm, why choose p6, In my opinion, It might be for the compiled byte-code.
17:02 Limbic_Region has joined #perl6
17:02 autrijus the bytecode would be .pbc for the parrot runtime
17:03 autrijus LimbicRegion: oh nice
17:03 PerlJam xinming: Are .pl and .pl6 files for Perl Libraries and Perl 6 Libraries respectively?
17:03 hlen has quit IRC ("use vim")
17:03 * Limbic_Region was only joking about compiling everything to bytecode though
17:03 LimbicRegion has quit IRC (Client Quit)
17:04 PerlJam xinming: and what about .plx files?
17:04 xinming PerlJam: .pl is stand for the "current" version of perl(maybe perl 5, maybe perl 6), and .pl6 for specified version of perl, for perl 6
17:04 PerlJam the trouble with having a good memory is that you don't forget stuff ;)
17:05 Limbic_Region PerlJam - the problem with having a good memory with bad recall is that you feel even more stupid that you hadn't forgot something but needed someone else point it out to you
17:06 geoffb [OT] Anyone happen to know a decent free tool that can easily diagram relationships in a SQL DB?  $client is allergic to ASCII art, I'm allergic to MS Access, and the sooner this gets dealt with, the sooner I can be a Perl 6 Playa again . . . :-)
17:06 xinming PerlJam: It doesn't conflict with .pl? scheme. :-)
17:06 * Limbic_Region wonders if there is a test that can actually measure memory without the limitations of recall
17:07 Limbic_Region geoffb - you lost me at "free"
17:07 geoffb sigh
17:07 geoffb Time to relearn PIC . . . .
17:07 theorbtwo You could try dia, I hear good things about it.
17:07 theorbtwo Of course, that'd be nonautomated.
17:08 DaGo has quit IRC ()
17:08 autrijus geoffb: SQL::Translator::Producer::GraphViz
17:08 Limbic_Region geoffb - http://www.databaseanswers.com/modelling_tools.htm
17:08 autrijus (iirc.)
17:08 Limbic_Region google is your friend
17:09 geoffb theorbtwo, no problem, it's only 10 tables, half of which are just audit versions of the other half, with absolutely trivial relationships . . . but $client just hates doing things the easy way . . .
17:09 geoffb Limbic_Region, point taken
17:09 geoffb autrijus, hmmm, thanks for the idea
17:09 * Limbic_Region didn't realize there were so many free options out there
17:10 * Limbic_Region wonders if he should have fought the purchase of Erwin a little harder now
17:10 * Limbic_Region wanders off for lunch
17:12 stevan hullo autrijus :)
17:14 autrijus greetings stevan
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17:21 robkinyon autrijus: I have a question re: single-pass interpreters (like Ruby/Perl5), if you don't mind
17:21 autrijus sure
17:22 robkinyon I was looking at Ruby's source to see if I could add in user-defined lexically-scoped syntax
17:22 robkinyon The way it's written, the keyword and ops lists are both static and the lexer is hard-coded
17:22 PerlJam perl5 is single pass?  I've always thought of it more like a 2-steps-forward-one-step-back kind of compiler  :)
17:23 robkinyon Shouldn't it be possible to have a table of funcps that respond to the longest-match lexeme, with context thrown in there for good measure, calling the top funcp on the stack (to provide user-defined capabilities) ?
17:23 eric256 perljam...i think i heard its a two pass, but the second pass progrresses right behind the first pass.  that ameka any sense? ;)
17:23 robkinyon And, that, in theory, shouldn't be too much slower than the current switch table
17:24 autrijus robkinyon: I think you just described perl6 macros.
17:24 robkinyon Oh
17:24 robkinyon :-)
17:24 robkinyon In theory, that's not too hard to implement (assuming a strong graps of C which I had and lost)
17:25 * PerlJam gives robkinyon a strong graps so that he can apply it to C
17:26 robkinyon The only part I'm finding problematic in my mental model is how to determine which lexemes are legal where. For example, within the condition of an if-statement, certain things are legal that aren't legal outside it, and vice-versa
17:26 robkinyon So, one would associate a lexeme within a given context to a given funcp ... ?
17:27 robkinyon Or, am I off base?
17:27 autrijus robkinyon: yes. the context is called grammatical category
17:27 robkinyon ahhh
17:27 autrijus the lexeme is parsed using "is parsed" specification
17:27 * robkinyon wasn't lucky enough to take compiler theory in college
17:27 eric256 has quit IRC ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
17:27 autrijus the funcp is the macro
17:28 robkinyon "is parsed" specification?
17:28 autrijus and it's not comp theory, it's perl6 :)
17:28 robkinyon heh
17:28 robkinyon hmm
17:29 autrijus for some bit about macros, see S06 (and A06 for fun)
17:29 autrijus for grammatical categories, see S12
17:29 robkinyon I was thinking about hacking this into the Ruby executable
17:29 robkinyon seeing as ruby's codebase is significantly easier to work with than Perl's
17:30 autrijus I'm not too sure about that :)
17:30 autrijus you may have better luck with yc/yarv... maybe
17:30 robkinyon yc/yarv?
17:30 autrijus the nextgen ruby runtime
17:30 autrijus yarv is ruby's parrot
17:31 autrijus see this http://www.atdot.net/yc/compile
17:31 autrijus also http://www.atdot.net/yarv/
17:31 stevan YARV++
17:31 robkinyon I want to avoid working with Parrot until I see Parrot actually implement a full range of stuff
17:31 robkinyon Plus, I like how everything in Ruby is an object, including the runtime
17:31 stevan robkinyon: not parrot,.. its an unrelated project
17:32 robkinyon Oh - so ruby won't be targeting parrot?
17:32 stevan robkinyon: who knows,. but that is not what YARV is :)
17:32 stevan robkinyon: see the inst table http://www.atdot.net/yarv/insnstbl.html
17:33 stevan the first 50 are all you really need,..everything after that is an optimization
17:33 stevan #26 newrange
17:33 stevan autrijus: speaking of bad-ass language runtimes :)
17:34 stevan autrijus: any more thoughts/work on the sendmsg stuff?
17:34 autrijus stevan: you saw that I'm converting the entire PIL special forms into sendmsgs
17:35 stevan autrijus: no I didnt,.. where?
17:35 autrijus next step is introduce Arglist and Siglist objs
17:35 autrijus to replace even more special forms
17:35 stevan nice
17:35 stevan did you see I added a closure::signature last night
17:35 autrijus stevan: see http://use.perl.org/~autrijus/journal/27490 on Apply, Bind and Assign
17:35 autrijus yeah I saw that
17:35 stevan so that is supports return type checking :)
17:36 theorbtwo Oh, speaking of, did you see...
17:36 autrijus very nice
17:36 theorbtwo ?eval my ($a, $b) = (1,2); ($a, $b)>>++;
17:36 evalbot_7915 Error: Can't modify constant item: VInt 1
17:36 rafl autrijus: I want to give a talk about perl6/pugs on friday. I'd like to steak something from your pugs talks. How are they licensed? Am I allowed to steal?
17:37 hlen has joined #perl6
17:37 theorbtwo AFAICS, that's getting treated as j-random-list, and not like an arglist.
17:37 autrijus rafl: I hereby release it in the Microsoft Permissive License ;)
17:38 autrijus rafl: or SQLite "license", or CC-by-2.0, or BSD3, or whatever
17:38 rafl autrijus: I interpret that as a "Yes" :-)
17:38 autrijus that interpretation would be correct.
17:38 sili charge royalties
17:40 rafl autrijus: I'm also happy to hear your Pugs and Haskell talks in march :-)
17:41 robkinyon autrijus: Thanks
17:42 autrijus rafl: :D
17:45 rafl I'm still in doubt about the visual basic talk, though.
17:47 rafl autrijus: Hey! Stop making new talks or updating them.. I get a mail every time! ;-)
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18:00 autrijus couldn't quite bring myself to journal... tomorrow then
18:00 autrijus good night folks :) &
18:00 geoffb good night, autrijus
18:09 Simonff Hi - can anyone help me with a Pugs compilation error?
18:09 geoffb Simonff, nopaste it
18:10 Simonff geoffb: http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/IY7AkL50.html
18:11 geoffb Hmmm, someone got this a day or two ago . . . I don't recall the answer, but it should be in the IRC logs (see pugscode.org -> IRC logs in the left menu)
18:14 Simonff That was me, on Sunday. I was told to try the SVN version, but the problem persists.
18:14 geoffb oh.
18:14 geoffb sorry about that
18:14 Simonff np :)
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18:30 svnbot6 r7916 | asavige++ | added golfex.t misc golf examples
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18:48 svnbot6 r7917 | asavige++ | fixed comments in golfex.t
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19:10 robkinyon In #ruby-lang, someone just asked "How do I write a function that accepts a single array containing two numbers?"
19:10 robkinyon I'm curious - what would the P6 signature for that look like?
19:12 iblech robkinyon: my sub foo ([$first_elem, $second_elem]) {...} IIRC
19:12 iblech (Which will, of course, work with both foo @array and foo $arrayref)
19:13 robkinyon my sub foo ([Int $width, Int $height]) { ... } ?
19:13 iblech Yep.
19:13 iblech see http://dev.perl.org/perl6/doc/design/syn/S06.html, "Unpacking array parameters"
19:14 robkinyon What about: my sub foo ([Int $width, Int $height], $other_param) { ... } ?
19:14 iblech Works too
19:14 robkinyon when is this going to be released again?
19:14 iblech You can even say things like ([Int $width, Int $height = $default_height, Int ?$optional_depth])
19:14 theorbtwo When it's ready.
19:14 iblech :)
19:15 robkinyon theorbtwo: *sighs*
19:28 nothingmuch if it's an array taking two params it might as well be a tuple
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19:59 cognominal_ this is a form pattern matching (in the haskell sens). I wonder why perl6 does not go the whole way and does not explicitely support algebraic types
19:59 cognominal_ s/form/form of/
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20:04 robkinyon Question: Will there be an analog to Ruby's :foo?
20:04 robkinyon That creates a singleton symbol called :foo that can be used everywhere
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21:53 mugwump ?eval "RT"++
21:53 evalbot_7917 Error: Can't modify constant item: VStr "RT"
21:53 mugwump :)
21:53 mugwump ?eval ($x="RT")++
21:53 evalbot_7917 Error: Undeclared variable: "$x"
21:53 mugwump ?eval (mr $x="RT")++
21:53 evalbot_7917 Error: No compatible subroutine found: "&mr"
21:53 mugwump ?eval (my $x="RT")++
21:53 evalbot_7917 Error: No compatible subroutine found: "&my"
21:53 mugwump ?eval my $x ="RT"; $x++
21:53 evalbot_7917 "RT"
21:54 mugwump There you go, obra - RT++ is still RT
21:55 obra :)
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22:05 coral interesting. it's ok to modify an instance of a constant but not the constant itself?
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22:36 cognominal_ ?eval  say (0..)[0]
22:36 evalbot_7917 Error:  unexpected "(" expecting block construct, ":", term, term postfix, operator, postfix conditional, postfix loop, postfix iteration, ";" or end of input
22:36 obra seen autrijus
22:36 jabbot obra: autrijus was seen 4 hours 36 minutes 10 seconds ago
22:36 cognominal_ ?eval  say (qw(a) )[0]
22:36 evalbot_7917 Error:  unexpected "(" expecting block construct, ":", operator, ")", term postfix, postfix conditional, postfix loop, postfix iteration, ";" or end of input
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22:36 cognominal_ say qw(a)
22:37 cognominal_ ?eval say qw(a)
22:37 evalbot_7917 a bool::true
22:37 wolverian ?eval say (0...)[0]
22:37 evalbot_7917 0 bool::true
22:37 wolverian cognominal_, you missed one .
22:37 cognominal_ thx
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22:38 cognominal_ sub take(Int $n, Code &f) { (1..$n).map:{ f() } }
22:38 cognominal_ my $compteur = coro {   for  1...  -> $i {    yield $i; } };
22:38 cognominal_ my @a;
22:38 cognominal_ say ( @a = take 10, $compteur ) while @a[0] <20;
22:39 cognominal_ apparently 1.. is not lazy because it loops without returning anything
22:40 cognominal_ if I give an finitie integer as upper bound everything is fine
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23:06 eric256 opps...don't hit F5 in the web based IRC chat ;)
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23:34 cognominal_ encore une de ces conneries de la nasa pour eviter une collision d'un asteroid avec la terre sur /.
23:35 cognominal_ ils doivent vraiment avoir du mal a justifier leur budget.
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23:49 buu ?eval say +(0..)[2]
23:49 evalbot_7917 Error:  unexpected ")" expecting term
23:49 buu Eh?
23:50 buu ?eval say (0..)
23:50 evalbot_7917 Error:  unexpected "(" expecting block construct, ":", term, term postfix, operator, postfix conditional, postfix loop, postfix iteration, ";" or end of input
23:50 buu ?eval my @x = (0..); say @x
23:50 evalbot_7917 Error:  unexpected ")" expecting term
23:50 buu Wtf?
23:50 buu ?eval my @x = 0..; say @x
23:50 evalbot_7917 Error:  unexpected ";" expecting term
23:50 wolverian ...
23:50 wolverian not ..
23:50 buu ?eval my @x = 0...; say @x
23:50 evalbot_7917 pugs: out of memory (requested 1048576 bytes)
23:50 buu heh
23:50 buu So much for 'lazy'
23:51 buu ?eval say (0...)[0]
23:51 evalbot_7917 0 bool::true
23:51 buu ?eval say (0...)[3]
23:51 evalbot_7917 3 bool::true
23:51 buu ?eval say (0...)[180]
23:51 evalbot_7917 180 bool::true
23:51 buu Interesting.
23:57 sili eh? what is that?
23:57 sili infinity?
23:58 mugwump ?eval say (0...)[-1]
23:58 evalbot_7917 pugs: out of memory (requested 1048576 bytes)
23:58 brother has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:58 sili i think that means yes.
23:58 mugwump should be inf!  :)

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