| Time |
S |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:00 |
|
theorbtwo |
G'night, laz. |
| 00:00 |
|
theorbtwo |
liz. |
| 00:00 |
|
liz6 |
g'night theorbthree ;-) |
| 00:01 |
|
leo |
and four me g.night 2 |
| 00:01 |
|
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| 00:01 |
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| 00:16 |
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| 00:16 |
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| 00:16 |
|
svnbot6 |
r7912 | stevan++ | Perl6::ObjectSpace - |
| 00:16 |
|
svnbot6 |
r7912 | stevan++ | * all methods in Bootstrap now have a checked return type :) |
| 00:17 |
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| 05:06 |
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| 05:16 |
|
gaal |
dduncan: I won't have time to hack .hs myself in the coming week or so, so by all means go for it if you want. |
| 05:17 |
|
gaal |
rafl: does what work for me? |
| 05:17 |
|
rafl |
gaal: pge support. You said it doesn't work on feather. |
| 05:18 |
|
gaal |
SamB: er, of course. Did I imply that you can somewhere? :) The sourcy macos package "uses a binary bootstrap compiler" |
| 05:18 |
|
gaal |
rafl: sec. |
| 05:19 |
|
rafl |
Does someone know under what license autrijus talks are? I want to give a Perl 6/Pugs talk on friday and would like to steal excessive from him.. :-) |
| 05:19 |
|
pasteling |
"gaal" at 192.115.25.249 pasted "pge not working" (3 lines, 143B) at http://sial.org/pbot/14193 |
| 05:20 |
|
rafl |
Try to use /usr/bin/pugs? |
| 05:21 |
|
gaal |
long as the flight from .ch to .hk may be, i'm pretty sure he'll be landing by then :) |
| 05:22 |
|
pasteling |
"gaal" at 192.115.25.249 pasted "no go with system pugs either" (4 lines, 264B) at http://sial.org/pbot/14194 |
| 05:22 |
|
rafl |
Hm. The system pugs error confueses me. |
| 05:23 |
|
rafl |
Doesn't it work on feather only? |
| 05:23 |
|
rafl |
Read as: Is there someone who has this running? |
| 05:24 |
|
gaal |
rafl: let me test on my colinux |
| 05:24 |
|
gaal |
but wait, are you doing parrot now too? wow |
| 05:25 |
|
rafl |
Noone else wants to, as it seems. |
| 05:25 |
|
rafl |
There has been a request for a Debian package for months and no one felt responsible, so I did. |
| 05:26 |
|
gaal |
i think there's at least one other way to put that, but rafl++ nonetheless :) |
| 05:26 |
|
rafl |
What's the other way? :-) |
| 05:26 |
|
gaal |
so i should just dpkg -i everything from ~rafl/public_html/debian/ ? |
| 05:27 |
|
rafl |
gaal: Not libghc6-* -- it's broken from SVN currently. |
| 05:28 |
|
gaal |
s/responsible/capable/, for one. or knowledgeful of debian. or temporally able. |
| 05:28 |
|
gaal |
ok |
| 05:28 |
|
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| 05:29 |
|
rafl |
Well. It's not that much work currently. One release a month isn't that much. |
| 05:30 |
|
gaal |
isn't it kind of an asymptotic thing? huge inital overhead, gets easier the more frequent releases are? |
| 05:30 |
|
rafl |
If you packaged it once you'll only need to bump up versions in some places and everything works again. Nothing that you need really deep Debian knowledge for. |
| 05:31 |
|
rafl |
The initial overhead wasn't that huge. I thought that first so I hestiated to do a parrot package for some weeks. I also started to do it in a branch so I could not break anything because I thought there were some major changes to the build system needed. |
| 05:31 |
|
rafl |
But in fact it was done in only some hours and I merged the branch directly back some hours after creating it. :-) |
| 05:32 |
|
gaal |
i meant the whole debian gig. |
| 05:32 |
|
rafl |
I don't get you then. |
| 05:33 |
|
gaal |
part of the overhead is learning debian packaging, getting to know/be known by the other debian people. |
| 05:33 |
|
gaal |
if i had to package something once a year in debian, that once a year would be very hard |
| 05:34 |
|
gaal |
if i did it every week, it'd be crazy at first but then sorta ease out. no? |
| 05:34 |
|
rafl |
I guess that's right. |
| 05:35 |
|
gaal |
fwiw: on my test machine, PGE fails in the same way it did with eric's autobuild |
| 05:35 |
|
gaal |
not in the way /usr/bin/pugs failed on feather. |
| 05:35 |
|
rafl |
It usually takes me less around 5 minutes to make a Debian package of an average cpan module now. When I started it took hours and others still had to complain about it.. |
| 05:35 |
|
rafl |
gaal: I've no idea then. |
| 05:35 |
|
gaal |
in any case i doubt the problem is in the package itself. |
| 05:36 |
|
rafl |
The problem with /usr/bin/pugs on feather maybe is. I'm not sure though. |
| 05:36 |
|
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| 10:05 |
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| 10:19 |
|
buu |
?eval { 1 } |
| 10:19 |
|
evalbot_7912 |
1 |
| 10:19 |
|
buu |
?eval { 1 }->() |
| 10:19 |
|
evalbot_7912 |
Error: unexpected ">" or "-" expecting term postfix, operator, postfix conditional, postfix loop, postfix iteration, ";" or end of input |
| 10:19 |
|
buu |
?eval sub { 1 } |
| 10:19 |
|
evalbot_7912 |
sub {...} |
| 10:21 |
|
buu |
?eval x => {1} |
| 10:21 |
|
evalbot_7912 |
("x" => sub {...}) |
| 10:23 |
|
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| 10:25 |
|
azuroth |
?eval { 1 }.() |
| 10:25 |
|
evalbot_7912 |
1 |
| 10:25 |
|
azuroth |
?eval -> $a { $a }.(5) |
| 10:25 |
|
evalbot_7912 |
\5 |
| 10:25 |
|
azuroth |
slash five, eh? |
| 10:28 |
|
theorbtwo |
azuroth: evalbot, for reasons that I've never quite understood, often gives one level of enreferencing beyond what you'd expect to see. |
| 10:29 |
|
azuroth |
ahh |
| 10:29 |
|
azuroth |
I don't think I've noticed before |
| 10:30 |
|
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| 10:31 |
|
buu |
eval: 1 |
| 10:31 |
|
buubot |
buu: Return: 1 |
| 10:36 |
|
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| 10:53 |
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| 10:58 |
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| 11:02 |
|
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| 11:02 |
|
love_ANGEL |
selam k0131zlar benimle tan0131015fmak isteyen varm0131yd0131 |
| 11:02 |
|
love_ANGEL |
? |
| 11:03 |
|
love_ANGEL |
alo kimse yokmu dur |
| 11:03 |
|
love_ANGEL |
be |
| 11:03 |
|
love_ANGEL |
sizi bekliyorum ama ben |
| 11:03 |
|
love_ANGEL |
? |
| 11:03 |
|
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| 11:04 |
|
azuroth |
saluttt les pdddd, love angel! |
| 11:04 |
|
* azuroth |
wonders whether "for @foo -> $x, $y, $x" is a mistake in the quickref |
| 11:07 |
|
|
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| 11:10 |
|
azuroth |
I'm going to assume it is, and change the last x to z. take that! |
| 11:10 |
|
theorbtwo |
Looks like a typo to me. |
| 11:17 |
|
svnbot6 |
r7913 | azuroth++ | Changed quickref's control so that |
| 11:17 |
|
svnbot6 |
r7913 | azuroth++ | for @foo -> $x, $y, $x |
| 11:17 |
|
svnbot6 |
r7913 | azuroth++ | is now |
| 11:17 |
|
svnbot6 |
r7913 | azuroth++ | for @foo -> $x, $y, $z |
| 11:18 |
|
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| 12:15 |
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| 12:24 |
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| 12:25 |
|
azuroth |
"the list ctoring comma operator supplies this list context: sub *infix:<*> (*@things) { ... }" - should that be *infix:<,> ? |
| 12:26 |
|
theorbtwo |
Quite likely. prefix:<*> also makes some sense, but not much. |
| 12:27 |
|
azuroth |
I also noticed it didn't mention * providing list context (but did mention ~, +, and ?) and thought that was a bit peculiar |
| 12:29 |
|
rafl |
Well, $x, $y, $x could also be useful. Even if there could be a better way like @foo -> undef, $y, $x or @foo -> _, $y, $x |
| 12:30 |
|
azuroth |
I think it actually assigned x to the first value it saw. but yeah, it _could_ be useful |
| 12:30 |
|
azuroth |
it's a peculiar and confusing case for being in the quickref though, in my opinion |
| 12:31 |
|
rafl |
Indeed. |
| 12:31 |
|
theorbtwo |
I don't think we want obfu cases in our quickref. |
| 12:32 |
|
rafl |
Don't we? Ooo :-( |
| 12:32 |
|
theorbtwo |
Putting "_ = foo() # Explicitly ignore the return of foo." in might be useful. |
| 12:34 |
|
rafl |
Is _ really perl 6? Where is it described? |
| 12:34 |
|
theorbtwo |
Donno; just seen it alluded to on the chan. |
| 12:35 |
|
rafl |
But I thing _ = foo() is ugly. foo() in void context does the same. |
| 12:35 |
|
rafl |
Well, I think the _ is stolen from haskell. |
| 12:35 |
|
theorbtwo |
But it's a simple example. |
| 12:35 |
|
theorbtwo |
(_, $x, $y) = foo() would be an actually useful one. |
| 12:36 |
|
rafl |
I think undef is Perl 6's _ |
| 12:36 |
|
rafl |
Just like in Perl 5. |
| 12:43 |
|
azuroth |
good night, everyone |
| 12:44 |
|
liz6 |
night, azuroth! |
| 12:45 |
|
gaal |
liz6: hi |
| 12:45 |
|
liz6 |
gaal: hi! |
| 12:46 |
|
gaal |
thanks for the notes. :) |
| 12:46 |
|
gaal |
what did you mean by best practices in regard to the function call examples? |
| 12:47 |
|
theorbtwo |
Hi, liz. |
| 12:47 |
|
theorbtwo |
And gaal. |
| 12:47 |
|
gaal |
hey :) |
| 12:47 |
|
liz6 |
foo( $a ) as opposed to foo ($a) ? |
| 12:48 |
|
gaal |
is that in PBP? I don't like it. |
| 12:48 |
|
liz6 |
I think it is... |
| 12:48 |
|
liz6 |
someone pls correct me if I'm wrong... ;-) |
| 12:49 |
|
theorbtwo |
I wouldn't put a space between the name and the beginning of the arg list, because you shouldn't try to call perl 6 subs that way. |
| 12:49 |
|
xinming |
liz6: foo( $a ) = foo $a; but != foo ( $a ); |
| 12:50 |
|
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| 12:50 |
|
xinming |
foo ($a) is become a bit like, foo list( $a ); |
| 12:50 |
|
liz6 |
that's why I put a question mark in my comments... |
| 12:50 |
|
liz6 |
so, please treat it as a slippo of my fingers.. |
| 12:59 |
|
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| 13:14 |
|
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| 13:23 |
|
wolverian |
rafl, tentatively, ? (I think) and ! mean optional and required params that are ignored, in signature lists. |
| 13:23 |
|
wolverian |
rafl, the same could apply to any binding. |
| 13:27 |
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| 13:48 |
|
gaal |
sorry, was whisked away by $work |
| 13:49 |
|
gaal |
I think I've settled on `sub foo (args)` in signatures and `foo(args)` in calls. `( args )` looks weird to my eyes. |
| 13:50 |
|
theorbtwo |
To mine too, gaal. |
| 13:50 |
|
gaal |
though in Perl 5 I often said things like for (@{ $listref }) { ... } |
| 13:50 |
|
theorbtwo |
OTOH, I don't like that calling a sub like you write the signature will silently do the wrong thing in many cases. |
| 13:54 |
|
gaal |
significant whitespace is teh weird, yeah. can't say it isn't useful at times, though! |
| 13:58 |
|
rafl |
autrijus: ping |
| 14:00 |
|
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| 14:03 |
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| 14:04 |
|
Limbic_Region |
salutations all |
| 14:05 |
|
kolibrie |
good morning, Limbic_Region |
| 14:06 |
|
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| 14:06 |
|
liz6 |
rafl: I think autri is en route from helsinki to taipei right now... |
| 14:06 |
|
rafl |
liz6: Ah, OK. ETA? |
| 14:07 |
|
liz6 |
not sure: I wouldn't expect anything from autri in the next 24 hours... |
| 14:07 |
|
* Limbic_Region |
wouldn't bet on that |
| 14:07 |
|
liz6 |
;-) |
| 14:07 |
|
liz6 |
seen autrijus |
| 14:07 |
|
jabbot |
liz6: autrijus was seen 23 hours 50 minutes 40 seconds ago |
| 14:08 |
|
liz6 |
L~R: I guess that would be a record, no? 48 hours? ;-) |
| 14:09 |
|
Limbic_Region |
liz6 - there have been times where he wasn't around in IRC but was still checking in to svn |
| 14:09 |
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| 14:09 |
|
Limbic_Region |
meant to ask you about your coroutine specs |
| 14:09 |
|
Limbic_Region |
if I create a coroutine and have a yield in the body of the loop, does the coroutine work like a full-body continuation? |
| 14:10 |
|
Limbic_Region |
and not like a p5 fancy goto? |
| 14:10 |
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| 14:10 |
|
liz6 |
it's my understanding that execution will continue after the yield() at the next invocation |
| 14:10 |
|
Limbic_Region |
IOW - can I resume inside a loop requiring initialization where in p5 (simulating coroutines with fancy goto tricks) you could not |
| 14:10 |
|
liz6 |
regardless of where that is... |
| 14:11 |
|
Limbic_Region |
ok - cool |
| 14:11 |
|
* liz6 |
off to do some shopping and then back to $work |
| 14:17 |
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| 14:59 |
|
robkinyon |
What's the difference between Ruby's coros and what is planned for P6? |
| 14:59 |
|
Limbic_Region |
read S17 |
| 14:59 |
|
robkinyon |
thx |
| 14:59 |
|
Limbic_Region |
rather - read S17 that's in the Pugs repository |
| 15:00 |
|
Limbic_Region |
keeping in mind it was specced by liz and autrijus (with some influence by wendy) |
| 15:00 |
|
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| 15:00 |
|
Limbic_Region |
IOW - it is a draft that @larry needs to stamp |
| 15:00 |
|
robkinyon |
wendy? |
| 15:01 |
|
liz6 |
my spouse... |
| 15:02 |
|
r0nny |
yo |
| 15:03 |
|
Limbic_Region |
in any case, Parrot has got the goods - the decision on the p6 side is how much/little to use |
| 15:03 |
|
Limbic_Region |
and how to handle things like parameters |
| 15:03 |
|
Limbic_Region |
which can go several different ways with strong supporting arguments for each |
| 15:04 |
|
robkinyon |
liz6: Oh - I didn't know you were married. :-) |
| 15:04 |
|
robkinyon |
limbic_region: Hmmm ... I'm liking Ruby's coros a lot |
| 15:05 |
|
Limbic_Region |
robkinyon - I am Ruby ignorant, mind giving me an example? |
| 15:05 |
|
svnbot6 |
r7914 | iblech++ | docs/quickref/data: Fixed somewhat critical typo, spotted by azuroth++. |
| 15:05 |
|
|
evalbot_7913 has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection) |
| 15:05 |
|
robkinyon |
one sec |
| 15:05 |
|
Limbic_Region |
and have you read Dan's "What the heck is a coroutine" blog? |
| 15:05 |
|
|
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| 15:05 |
|
robkinyon |
LR: Yeah, I've read it |
| 15:06 |
|
robkinyon |
i need to reread it after having learned Ruby, though |
| 15:06 |
|
Limbic_Region |
http://www.sidhe.org/~dan/blog[…]hives/000178.html |
| 15:06 |
|
robkinyon |
my eyes glazed a bit cause i didn't have any experience. :-) |
| 15:06 |
|
Limbic_Region |
yeah - fortunately for me, I was in #parrot at the time and got some real time explanations |
| 15:07 |
|
Limbic_Region |
understanding how continuations and coroutines differed really solidified things for me |
| 15:07 |
|
Limbic_Region |
but I would be happy to see how coroutines work in Ruby |
| 15:07 |
|
Limbic_Region |
unfortunately - all implementations of coroutines that I know about are still just emulations of Knuth's original brain child |
| 15:08 |
|
lisppaste3 |
robkinyon pasted "Ruby coros" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/13367 |
| 15:08 |
|
robkinyon |
That's from my port of Tree.pm to Ruby - it gives traverse() both implements and uses coros |
| 15:09 |
|
Limbic_Region |
the case statement isn't required though right |
| 15:09 |
|
robkinyon |
I use the case statement to determine which traversal method I'm supposed to do |
| 15:09 |
|
Limbic_Region |
the yields could just as easily have been outside? |
| 15:09 |
|
robkinyon |
yeah |
| 15:10 |
|
Limbic_Region |
I don't see anything there that would lead me to believe there will be undesireable differences |
| 15:11 |
|
robkinyon |
well, you mentioned a number of different WTDI |
| 15:11 |
|
Limbic_Region |
1 thing you have there is just what I was confirming with liz - that coroutines can yield and resume inside a construct requring initialization |
| 15:11 |
|
robkinyon |
"construct requiring initialization"? |
| 15:11 |
|
Limbic_Region |
in p5 speak, gotos can't jump inside a loop or a subroutine |
| 15:11 |
|
robkinyon |
ah |
| 15:12 |
|
robkinyon |
gotos can't enter a scope? |
| 15:12 |
|
Limbic_Region |
they can as long as initialization isn't required |
| 15:12 |
|
liz6 |
from Dan's blog: |
| 15:12 |
|
liz6 |
"One thing to remember is that you can yield out of a coroutine no matter how deeply you're into it. Our examples are really simple, but you could be nested ten or twenty levels of scope deep in a coroutine and still yield out--when you re-invoke the coroutine you'll be dropped back where you were, ten or twenty levels deep, with all your lexicals put back in place." |
| 15:12 |
|
robkinyon |
That's how Ruby's coros work |
| 15:13 |
|
robkinyon |
plus, you can pass in a Proc object that has a completely different scope and yield to it |
| 15:13 |
|
Limbic_Region |
in any even robkinyon, that's not the issue with different WTDI |
| 15:13 |
|
robkinyon |
(which is important) |
| 15:13 |
|
Limbic_Region |
the issue is with parameters |
| 15:13 |
|
robkinyon |
ok ... ? |
| 15:13 |
|
Limbic_Region |
let me nopaste |
| 15:13 |
|
robkinyon |
k |
| 15:13 |
|
Limbic_Region |
perlbot nopaste |
| 15:13 |
|
perlbot |
Paste your code here and #<channel> will be able to view it: http://sial.org/pbot/<channel> |
| 15:16 |
|
pasteling |
"Limbic_Region" at 129.33.119.12 pasted "coroutines and parameter binding" (24 lines, 356B) at http://sial.org/pbot/14202 |
| 15:16 |
|
Limbic_Region |
sorry - was filling in commentary |
| 15:17 |
|
robkinyon |
huh |
| 15:17 |
|
Limbic_Region |
what huh? |
| 15:18 |
|
robkinyon |
lemme see what ruby does |
| 15:18 |
|
robkinyon |
ok - ruby has a strict type signature |
| 15:19 |
|
robkinyon |
so, "def foo ( a )" requires that there's a parameter every time |
| 15:19 |
|
robkinyon |
Also, yield will only yield to the associated block |
| 15:19 |
|
robkinyon |
So, you cannot yield to your caller - you only yield to the coro that you've been handed to |
| 15:20 |
|
Limbic_Region |
hmmm - not sure I understand that last statement, but before you explain |
| 15:21 |
|
Limbic_Region |
does changing the parameter affect how that parameter is bound |
| 15:21 |
|
Limbic_Region |
for instance - does calling foo(3) where the yield is returning the parameter change |
| 15:21 |
|
Limbic_Region |
if you subsequently invoke with foo(5) |
| 15:21 |
|
Limbic_Region |
? |
| 15:22 |
|
robkinyon |
yield doesn't yield to the caller |
| 15:22 |
|
robkinyon |
it yields to the associated Proc object |
| 15:22 |
|
Limbic_Region |
*shrug* - I guess I need to understand Ruby to understand that distinction |
| 15:22 |
|
robkinyon |
So, if you had "def foo ( a ) yield a", you would call it as "foo(3) { |x| print a }" |
| 15:23 |
|
robkinyon |
You associate a block with the method that has a yield in it |
| 15:23 |
|
Limbic_Region |
oh, I get it |
| 15:23 |
|
Limbic_Region |
hmmm |
| 15:23 |
|
robkinyon |
the caller isn't involved, save to potentially provide scope to the associated block |
| 15:23 |
|
Limbic_Region |
would definately have to defer you to liz, autrijus, etc on that one |
| 15:23 |
|
robkinyon |
heh |
| 15:23 |
|
robkinyon |
I like ruby's coros |
| 15:23 |
|
robkinyon |
they're very neat and clean |
| 15:24 |
|
Limbic_Region |
while I can conceptually understand it - I have no idea about Parrot's implementation and therefore Perl6's ability to bend that implementation to your will ;-) |
| 15:24 |
|
robkinyon |
hmm |
| 15:25 |
|
robkinyon |
coros, as I think you're understanding them, allow the function to yield to the caller, then resume functioning where the yield occurred the next time it's called? |
| 15:25 |
|
Limbic_Region |
yes |
| 15:25 |
|
Limbic_Region |
where as a continuation can be resumed anywhere |
| 15:25 |
|
robkinyon |
ok - in ruby, coros are primarily used to implement iterators |
| 15:25 |
|
SamB |
Limbic_Region: Parrot is a VM -- what difference does the implementation make? |
| 15:25 |
|
robkinyon |
for example, foo.each { |x| ... } |
| 15:26 |
|
Limbic_Region |
SamB - a matter of emulation (or how much work it takes to get the job done) |
| 15:26 |
|
Limbic_Region |
SamB - in p5, you can simulate coroutines - but only to a certain extent |
| 15:26 |
|
robkinyon |
LR: You could implement them fully, but you would have to maintain all the state yourself within the coro |
| 15:26 |
|
Limbic_Region |
for instance - goto's can't jump inside constructs requiring inialization |
| 15:26 |
|
robkinyon |
You'd practically have to implement a VM within each coro |
| 15:27 |
|
SamB |
Limbic_Region: maybe you meant Parrot's specification? |
| 15:27 |
|
robkinyon |
you'd have to unroll everything. :-) |
| 15:27 |
|
Limbic_Region |
SamB - right |
| 15:27 |
|
Limbic_Region |
thanks for clarification |
| 15:27 |
|
liz6 |
isn't that what continuattions are about? |
| 15:27 |
|
Limbic_Region |
yes liz6 |
| 15:28 |
|
Limbic_Region |
but to make robkinyon's Ruby syntax work in perl6 likely requires some manipulation |
| 15:28 |
|
Limbic_Region |
and I don't know how much or where to start |
| 15:28 |
|
liz6 |
ah, ok, in that sense... |
| 15:28 |
|
Limbic_Region |
which is why I deferred |
| 15:28 |
|
SamB |
now if we were talking about, say, Python's VM, it would be "implementation", because there is no spec for that. |
| 15:28 |
|
Limbic_Region |
and you would definately know |
| 15:29 |
|
Limbic_Region |
so WRT my earlier statement, I should have said spec and subsequent implementation of that spec (as there are no guarantees the implemenation matches the documentation) |
| 15:29 |
|
robkinyon |
well, it actually doesn't take much |
| 15:29 |
|
* Limbic_Region |
wanders off for a sec |
| 15:30 |
|
|
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| 15:30 |
|
robkinyon |
In essence, Ruby's coros are more syntactical sugar for P5's & prototype that happens to be at the end instead of the beginning |
| 15:30 |
|
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| 15:31 |
|
robkinyon |
And, you get a keyword for calling that subref called "yield [ARGS]" instead of doing $subref->([ARGS]) yourself. |
| 15:31 |
|
robkinyon |
Look at http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=506753 for a few different implementations of Ruby's Array.partition() in Perl |
| 15:32 |
|
robkinyon |
In Ruby, the block is at the end where it's in the beginning in Perl5 |
| 15:32 |
|
robkinyon |
You could easily do this in P6 with a method signature |
| 15:32 |
|
Limbic_Region |
liz6 - has S17 been handed off to @larry for their perusal? |
| 15:33 |
|
robkinyon |
The only thing in Ruby is that you don't have to know about the block - it's just there for you unless you need to pass it along, as I did in my nopaste |
| 15:33 |
|
Limbic_Region |
if so, perhaps robkinyon wants to post a question to p6.l as food for thought when they are considering it |
| 15:33 |
|
liz6 |
L~R: nope, still working on it, while $work is piling up... |
| 15:34 |
|
liz6 |
;-( |
| 15:34 |
|
Limbic_Region |
oh, well then I will shut up and let you get back to it |
| 15:34 |
|
liz6 |
suggestions / patches welcome! |
| 15:34 |
|
robkinyon |
I'll wait until it's posted to ask my question |
| 15:34 |
|
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| 15:38 |
|
* kolibrie |
just saved several minutes by using pugs to do some number crunching on a YAML file |
| 15:38 |
|
kolibrie |
(pugs)++ (Perl 6)++ |
| 15:38 |
|
r0nny |
(black perlvodoo)++ ;P |
| 15:40 |
|
dada |
<<pugs perl6>>^++ |
| 15:41 |
|
dada |
?eval <<pugs perl6>> |
| 15:41 |
|
evalbot_7914 |
("pugs", "perl6") |
| 15:41 |
|
dada |
?eval my $x = 1; my $y = 2; ($x, $y)^++ |
| 15:41 |
|
evalbot_7914 |
Error: unexpected end of input expecting term |
| 15:41 |
|
dada |
oops |
| 15:42 |
|
dada |
my perl6 is rusty already |
| 15:42 |
|
robkinyon |
?eval <<pugs perl6>>^++ |
| 15:42 |
|
evalbot_7914 |
Error: unexpected end of input expecting term |
| 15:42 |
|
|
thei0s has left |
| 15:42 |
|
robkinyon |
?eval <<pugs perl6>>^++; |
| 15:42 |
|
evalbot_7914 |
Error: unexpected ";" expecting term |
| 15:43 |
|
robkinyon |
?eval <<pugs perl6>>^+ 1 |
| 15:43 |
|
evalbot_7914 |
1 |
| 15:43 |
|
robkinyon |
?eval <<pugs perl6>> ^+ 1 |
| 15:43 |
|
evalbot_7914 |
1 |
| 15:43 |
|
dada |
?eval <<1 2>> ^+ 1 |
| 15:43 |
|
evalbot_7914 |
1 |
| 15:43 |
|
dada |
?eval my @a = (1,2); @a^++; @a; |
| 15:43 |
|
evalbot_7914 |
Error: unexpected ";" expecting term |
| 15:44 |
|
dada |
?eval my @a = (1,2); @a^+=1; @a; |
| 15:44 |
|
evalbot_7914 |
Error: unexpected "=" expecting "0", digit or fraction |
| 15:44 |
|
dada |
?eval my @a = (1,2); @a>>+=1; @a; |
| 15:44 |
|
evalbot_7914 |
Error: unexpected ">" expecting word character, "::", term postfix, operator, postfix conditional, postfix loop, postfix iteration, ";" or end of input |
| 15:44 |
|
dada |
don't remember |
| 15:45 |
|
dada |
?eval (1,2)>>+<<(2,3) |
| 15:45 |
|
evalbot_7914 |
(3, 5) |
| 15:45 |
|
dada |
?eval (1,2)>>+1 |
| 15:45 |
|
evalbot_7914 |
Error: unexpected ">" expecting term postfix, operator, postfix conditional, postfix loop, postfix iteration, ";" or end of input |
| 15:45 |
|
dada |
?eval (1,2)>>+ 1 |
| 15:45 |
|
evalbot_7914 |
Error: unexpected ">" expecting term postfix, operator, postfix conditional, postfix loop, postfix iteration, ";" or end of input |
| 15:46 |
|
dada |
isn't this a bug? |
| 15:46 |
|
dada |
?eval (1,2)>>+<<1 |
| 15:46 |
|
evalbot_7914 |
(2, 3) |
| 15:46 |
|
dada |
?eval (1,2)>>++<< |
| 15:46 |
|
evalbot_7914 |
Error: unexpected "<" or ">" expecting term postfix, operator, postfix conditional, postfix loop, postfix iteration, ";" or end of input |
| 15:47 |
|
|
liz6 has quit IRC ("User disconnected") |
| 15:48 |
|
dada |
?eval <<pugs perl6>> >>+<< <<perl6 pugs>> |
| 15:48 |
|
evalbot_7914 |
(0.0, 0.0) |
| 15:48 |
|
dada |
?eval <<pugs perl6>>>>+<<<<perl6 pugs>> |
| 15:48 |
|
evalbot_7914 |
Error: unexpected "<" or ">" expecting term postfix, operator, postfix conditional, postfix loop, postfix iteration, ";" or end of input |
| 15:48 |
|
dada |
heh |
| 15:52 |
|
dada |
?eval <<1 2>> >>+<< <<2 3>> |
| 15:52 |
|
evalbot_7914 |
(3.0, 5.0) |
| 15:56 |
|
Limbic_Region |
?eval (1, 2) >>+<< (2, 3) |
| 15:56 |
|
evalbot_7914 |
(3, 5) |
| 15:59 |
|
Limbic_Region |
?eval(1, 2, 3) >>+<< (4, 2) |
| 15:59 |
|
evalbot_7914 |
(5, 4, 3) |
| 16:03 |
|
dada |
?eval <<j p 6>> >>~<< <<a h>> |
| 16:03 |
|
evalbot_7914 |
("ja", "ph", "6") |
| 16:03 |
|
dada |
?eval [~] <<j p 6>> >>~<< <<a h>> |
| 16:03 |
|
evalbot_7914 |
"japh6" |
| 16:03 |
|
dada |
yippee!! :-) |
| 16:03 |
|
robkinyon |
?eval <<pugs perl6>> >>++ |
| 16:03 |
|
evalbot_7914 |
Error: Can't modify constant item: VStr "pugs" |
| 16:03 |
|
theorbtwo |
Hm, [~] <<j p 6>>»~«<<a h>> |
| 16:03 |
|
robkinyon |
?eval <"pugs" "perl6"> >>++ |
| 16:03 |
|
evalbot_7914 |
Error: Can't modify constant item: VStr "\"pugs\"" |
| 16:03 |
|
|
gbel has joined #perl6 |
| 16:04 |
|
theorbtwo |
?eval [~] <<j p 6>>»~«<<a h>> |
| 16:04 |
|
evalbot_7914 |
Error: unexpected "\\" expecting term postfix, operator, ":", ",", postfix conditional, postfix loop, postfix iteration, ";" or end of input |
| 16:04 |
|
robkinyon |
?eval <$x="pugs" $y="perl6"> >>++ |
| 16:04 |
|
evalbot_7914 |
Error: Can't modify constant item: VStr "$x=\"pugs\"" |
| 16:04 |
|
robkinyon |
?eval $x='pugs';$y='perl6';<$x $y> >>++ |
| 16:04 |
|
evalbot_7914 |
Error: Undeclared variable: "$x" |
| 16:04 |
|
robkinyon |
?eval my$x='pugs';my$y='perl6';<$x $y> >>++ |
| 16:04 |
|
evalbot_7914 |
Error: Can't modify constant item: VStr "$x" |
| 16:04 |
|
robkinyon |
Gack! |
| 16:04 |
|
robkinyon |
?eval my$x='pugs';my$y='perl6';($x $y) >>++ |
| 16:04 |
|
evalbot_7914 |
Error: unexpected "$" expecting operator or ")" |
| 16:04 |
|
robkinyon |
?eval my$x='pugs';my$y='perl6';($x, $y) >>++ |
| 16:04 |
|
evalbot_7914 |
Error: Can't modify constant item: VStr "pugs" |
| 16:05 |
|
robkinyon |
?eval my$x="pugs";my$y="perl6";($x, $y) >>++ |
| 16:05 |
|
evalbot_7914 |
Error: Can't modify constant item: VStr "pugs" |
| 16:05 |
|
dada |
it doesn't do ++ on strings yet, maybe |
| 16:05 |
|
robkinyon |
feh |
| 16:05 |
|
dada |
?eval my $x=1; my $y = 2; ($x, $y) >>++ |
| 16:05 |
|
evalbot_7914 |
Error: Can't modify constant item: VInt 1 |
| 16:05 |
|
dada |
no, it's something deeper |
| 16:05 |
|
dada |
?eval my $x=1; my $y = 2; ($x, $y) >>+<< 1 |
| 16:05 |
|
evalbot_7914 |
(2, 3) |
| 16:06 |
|
dada |
?eval my $x=1; my $y = 2; ($x++, $y++) |
| 16:06 |
|
evalbot_7914 |
(1, 2) |
| 16:06 |
|
dada |
that's unorthogonal |
| 16:07 |
|
robkinyon |
?eval my $x=1; my $y=2;(++$x, ++$y) |
| 16:07 |
|
evalbot_7914 |
(2, 3) |
| 16:07 |
|
robkinyon |
?eval (2,3) >>++ |
| 16:07 |
|
evalbot_7914 |
Error: Can't modify constant item: VInt 2 |
| 16:07 |
|
dada |
?eval 2++ |
| 16:07 |
|
evalbot_7914 |
Error: Can't modify constant item: VInt 2 |
| 16:07 |
|
robkinyon |
yeah |
| 16:07 |
|
dada |
that's orthogonal |
| 16:07 |
|
robkinyon |
LOL |
| 16:09 |
|
robkinyon |
it's orthogonal to itself, but doesn't look very spec-ish |
| 16:09 |
|
dada |
no no |
| 16:09 |
|
dada |
it's unorthogonal |
| 16:10 |
|
theorbtwo |
my $x=1; my $y = 2; ($x, $y) >>++ not working doesn't make sense to me. The rest do. |
| 16:10 |
|
theorbtwo |
?eval my $x=1; my $y = 2; ($x, $y)>>++ |
| 16:10 |
|
evalbot_7914 |
Error: Can't modify constant item: VInt 1 |
| 16:10 |
|
theorbtwo |
Just making sure. |
| 16:10 |
|
dada |
you can't do 2++ and you can't do (2,3) >>++ |
| 16:10 |
|
dada |
but you can do ($x++, $y++) and you can't do ($x, $y) >>++ |
| 16:10 |
|
dada |
that's unorthogonal |
| 16:11 |
|
robkinyon |
or, rather ++$x,++$Y |
| 16:11 |
|
dada |
well, the result doesn't matter |
| 16:11 |
|
dada |
the fact is that ($x, $y) >>++ should be perfectly equivalent to ($x++, $y++) |
| 16:11 |
|
PerlJam |
dada: depends on if () created a tuple (ala python) or not. |
| 16:11 |
|
PerlJam |
if ($x,$y) is a tuple, then it's immutable. |
| 16:12 |
|
PerlJam |
no lvalue there, only rvalue |
| 16:12 |
|
dada |
nope |
| 16:12 |
|
dada |
?eval my($x, $y) = (2,3); ($x, $y) |
| 16:12 |
|
evalbot_7914 |
(\2, \3) |
| 16:12 |
|
dada |
ouch |
| 16:13 |
|
dada |
?eval my $x = 2; $x |
| 16:13 |
|
evalbot_7914 |
\2 |
| 16:13 |
|
dada |
you see? it's orthogonal |
| 16:13 |
|
dada |
no tuple here |
| 16:14 |
|
theorbtwo |
dada: I think you are using orthogonal in non-useful ways. |
| 16:14 |
|
theorbtwo |
The problem is that the ($a,$b) that >>++ is trying to apply to needs to work somewhat differently from a random list-forming ($a, $b). |
| 16:15 |
|
theorbtwo |
It needs to act as the argument list to >>++, and get bound with :is rw, instead of :is copy or :is ro. |
| 16:15 |
|
dada |
mmm |
| 16:15 |
|
dada |
?eval my @a = (1,2); @a >>++; @a |
| 16:15 |
|
evalbot_7914 |
Error: Can't modify constant item: VInt 1 |
| 16:15 |
|
theorbtwo |
OK. |
| 16:15 |
|
theorbtwo |
Now I don't know WTF is going on. |
| 16:15 |
|
dada |
it's the same, I guess |
| 16:16 |
|
dada |
?eval my @a = (1,2); @a++; @a |
| 16:16 |
|
evalbot_7914 |
[3,] |
| 16:16 |
|
dada |
!!! |
| 16:16 |
|
theorbtwo |
@a is taken in scalar context, get 2, ++ that, assign it back to @a. |
| 16:17 |
|
|
SamB has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 16:17 |
|
dada |
yes, right |
| 16:17 |
|
theorbtwo |
?eval my @a = (1,1); @a++; @a |
| 16:17 |
|
evalbot_7914 |
[3,] |
| 16:17 |
|
dada |
?eval my @a = (1,2,3,4); @a++; @a |
| 16:17 |
|
evalbot_7914 |
[5,] |
| 16:17 |
|
dada |
ok |
| 16:18 |
|
theorbtwo |
I'm not real sure that's what it should do, but I can't think of anything saner for it to do. |
| 16:18 |
|
broquaint |
It should die. Loudly. |
| 16:19 |
|
dada |
1; |
| 16:19 |
|
theorbtwo |
"Die loudly" seems like a fairly good option, but how does it do that without making +@a or @a=3 not DTRT? |
| 16:20 |
|
dada |
mmm |
| 16:20 |
|
dada |
@a=3 ? |
| 16:20 |
|
broquaint |
Surely it would just be: method postfix:<++>() { die "Don't do that" }, or am I missing something? |
| 16:20 |
|
dada |
shouldn't that be interpreted as @a=(3) ? |
| 16:21 |
|
dada |
?eval @a = 3; @a |
| 16:21 |
|
evalbot_7914 |
Error: Undeclared variable: "@a" |
| 16:21 |
|
dada |
?eval my @a = 3; @a |
| 16:21 |
|
evalbot_7914 |
[3,] |
| 16:21 |
|
dada |
?eval my @a = (3); @a |
| 16:21 |
|
evalbot_7914 |
[3,] |
| 16:21 |
|
dada |
it's a different thing |
| 16:21 |
|
dada |
err, no, wait, it's not that different |
| 16:22 |
|
broquaint |
Calling a scalar mutator on an array shouldn't work (unless it's overloaded, of course). |
| 16:23 |
|
|
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| 16:23 |
|
dada |
?eval my @a = (42, 43, 44); @a += 1; @a |
| 16:23 |
|
evalbot_7914 |
[4.0,] |
| 16:24 |
|
|
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| 16:24 |
|
broquaint |
Odd that it converted to a float. |
| 16:24 |
|
dada |
?eval +"1" |
| 16:24 |
|
evalbot_7914 |
1.0 |
| 16:25 |
|
broquaint |
Wacky. |
| 16:25 |
|
dada |
numification works with floats, it seems |
| 16:25 |
|
dada |
anyway, the >>++ problem croaking about constant items is a bug, IMHO |
| 16:26 |
|
broquaint |
Yeah, I thought I'd marked that up in a test before. Maybe I never got around to it. |
| 16:26 |
|
broquaint |
Or figured it'd be fixed RSN. |
| 16:26 |
|
* eric256 |
tries feathers web chat...this is cool |
| 16:27 |
|
eric256 |
?eval (+"1").ref |
| 16:27 |
|
evalbot_7914 |
::Num |
| 16:27 |
|
dada |
?eval (1).ref |
| 16:27 |
|
evalbot_7914 |
::Int |
| 16:27 |
|
dada |
?eval (+"1.2").ref |
| 16:27 |
|
evalbot_7914 |
::Num |
| 16:27 |
|
theorbtwo |
(+1.ref) |
| 16:27 |
|
broquaint |
?eval 0.1.ref |
| 16:27 |
|
evalbot_7914 |
::Rat |
| 16:27 |
|
theorbtwo |
?eval (+1.ref) |
| 16:27 |
|
evalbot_7914 |
Error: cannot cast from VType (mkType "Int") to Double (VNum) |
| 16:28 |
|
theorbtwo |
?eval (+1).ref |
| 16:28 |
|
evalbot_7914 |
::Int |
| 16:28 |
|
dada |
?eval (1.2).ref |
| 16:28 |
|
evalbot_7914 |
::Rat |
| 16:28 |
|
dada |
mmm? |
| 16:28 |
|
dada |
?eval +(1.2).ref |
| 16:28 |
|
evalbot_7914 |
Error: cannot cast from VType (mkType "Rat") to Double (VNum) |
| 16:28 |
|
theorbtwo |
Whew. If the + operator changed the type on things that were already numeric, then I'd be worried. |
| 16:28 |
|
eric256 |
pugs has a couple fo number types ;) |
| 16:29 |
|
theorbtwo |
Int for integers, Num for floats, Rat for rationals. |
| 16:29 |
|
dada |
?eval (+(1.2)).ref |
| 16:29 |
|
evalbot_7914 |
::Rat |
| 16:29 |
|
dada |
?eval my $x = 1.2; $x.ref |
| 16:29 |
|
evalbot_7914 |
::Rat |
| 16:29 |
|
theorbtwo |
?eval (1/3.14).ref |
| 16:29 |
|
evalbot_7914 |
::Rat |
| 16:29 |
|
* Limbic_Region |
would still love to have a B&D way of declaring non-mutable datatypes that would blow up with prejudice at compile time if anything tries to cast them otherwise |
| 16:29 |
|
theorbtwo |
Odd; I expected that to be a Num. |
| 16:29 |
|
|
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| 16:30 |
|
broquaint |
use SML; |
| 16:30 |
|
Limbic_Region |
;-) |
| 16:31 |
|
broquaint |
Or perhaps some fancy perl6 way: use lang :SML; # Mmm, non-backward-compatible. |
| 16:31 |
|
theorbtwo |
use SML sounds right to me... not that I know what SML is... |
| 16:31 |
|
Limbic_Region |
99% of the time, I am not going to care that I have lost a few optimization possibilities to have flexibility in my programs |
| 16:32 |
|
|
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| 16:32 |
|
Limbic_Region |
actually - it is probably closer to 99.95% |
| 16:32 |
|
broquaint |
Standard ML, the language MJD bangs on about in his Strong Typing article. |
| 16:32 |
|
dada |
perl6 -pedantic -wall |
| 16:34 |
|
|
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| 16:36 |
|
|
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| 16:41 |
|
|
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| 16:41 |
|
svnbot6 |
r7915 | kane++ | r123@coke: kane | 2005-11-09 17:39:55 +0100 |
| 16:41 |
|
svnbot6 |
r7915 | kane++ | * update S22 with kane's work in progress.. starting small with metadata -> package creation |
| 16:41 |
|
svnbot6 |
r7915 | kane++ | * describe what we have and where we should go |
| 16:41 |
|
svnbot6 |
r7915 | kane++ | * note the p4 prototype2 dir where live code can be found |
| 16:41 |
|
svnbot6 |
r7915 | kane++ | * move all previous notes to the header: |
| 16:41 |
|
svnbot6 |
r7915 | kane++ | =head1 Past Rantings/Notes/Etc |
| 16:41 |
|
|
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| 16:45 |
|
r0nny |
yo |
| 16:45 |
|
xinming |
hmm, who wrote the cperl-mode.el for Emacs please? |
| 16:46 |
|
Limbic_Region |
xinming - if it is in the Pugs repository - use blame |
| 16:47 |
|
|
geoffb has joined #perl6 |
| 16:47 |
|
theorbtwo |
Limbic, cperl-mode is for perl 5 code. |
| 16:48 |
|
theorbtwo |
I seem to recall it being updated by somebody on p5p lately, though. |
| 16:49 |
|
autrijus |
it's since adopted p6-fu |
| 16:49 |
|
Limbic_Region |
ok - but it appears that renormalist is responsible for putting it in the Pugs repository |
| 16:49 |
|
autrijus |
using a (defun cperl-looks-like-perl6) |
| 16:49 |
|
* Limbic_Region |
wins the bet |
| 16:49 |
|
Limbic_Region |
hey autrijus |
| 16:49 |
|
autrijus |
greetings. just back to .tw and the net |
| 16:50 |
|
Limbic_Region |
right - liz6 suggested another 24 hours, I said don't bet on it |
| 16:50 |
|
autrijus |
finished the book jhi gave me during the plane trip |
| 16:50 |
|
Limbic_Region |
xinming - Steffen "renormalist" Schwigon (SCHWIGON) is the one that apparently put the file in the Pugs repository |
| 16:50 |
|
autrijus |
"Unicode Demystified" - a mere 900 pages |
| 16:50 |
|
autrijus |
my eyes hurt ;) |
| 16:50 |
|
theorbtwo |
900! |
| 16:51 |
|
* theorbtwo |
didn't know Unicode was that Mysterous in the first place. |
| 16:51 |
|
PerlJam |
theorbtwo: depends on which end you're looking at it from. |
| 16:51 |
|
autrijus |
I learned all about Hangul layout, Arabic shaping, BiDi and vertical, Han character composition forms, diacritical stacks, etc. |
| 16:51 |
|
xinming |
Limbic_Region: hmm, thanks, But It seems, the file has problem working with cvs version of Emacs. |
| 16:52 |
|
xinming |
Limbic_Region: there will be a message while loading the file. :-/ |
| 16:53 |
|
Limbic_Region |
*shrug*, I use a real editor - vi |
| 16:53 |
|
* Limbic_Region |
ducks |
| 16:53 |
|
* eric256 |
pictures purl six written vertiacly. hmmm |
| 16:53 |
|
Limbic_Region |
autrijus - I speak a bit of Hangul |
| 16:53 |
|
* autrijus |
wonders who to charge with maintaining S15 |
| 16:53 |
|
autrijus |
(Unicode) |
| 16:53 |
|
Limbic_Region |
it is one of the most scientific written languages ever created |
| 16:54 |
|
xinming |
by the way, anyone here knows why .p6 is chosen instead of .pl6 as extension.? it seems that .pl6 be more suitable. |
| 16:54 |
|
autrijus |
Limbic_Region: ooh, cool. yeah, it's very computational |
| 16:54 |
|
PerlJam |
autrijus: clearly you are the best choice! ;-) |
| 16:54 |
|
Limbic_Region |
which happened only about 500 years ago |
| 16:54 |
|
PerlJam |
xinming: no way! |
| 16:54 |
|
autrijus |
PerlJam: clearly I'm not ;) dan kogai maybe |
| 16:54 |
|
xinming |
PerlJam: Why? |
| 16:54 |
|
Limbic_Region |
the spoken language (much older) was previously written in chinese and only the very affluent could read/write |
| 16:54 |
|
PerlJam |
autrijus: oh, Dan would be an excellent choice. |
| 16:54 |
|
eric256 |
xinming: .pl, .pm, .p6 (all two letters. don't break the pattern!) |
| 16:55 |
|
autrijus |
xinming: I think extensions are somewhat bogus, and you can certainly call perl6 programs .pl |
| 16:55 |
|
theorbtwo |
Yeah, so far I've simply gotten away with ignoring non-latin-based languages, and ignoring the actually putting characters on the screen bit. (The former being hard since I don't know any, and the later being somebody else's problem.) |
| 16:55 |
|
Limbic_Region |
then came the 3rd king (his older two brothers abdicated so he could take the thrown) got all the countries bad @$$ linguists/scientists together to create a written language accessible to everyone |
| 16:55 |
|
xinming |
eric256: well, this makes sense. :-) |
| 16:55 |
|
PerlJam |
xinming: .pl6 is aesthetically displeasing for a variety of reasons |
| 16:56 |
|
PerlJam |
xinming: besides .pl has a troubled history |
| 16:56 |
|
theorbtwo |
So: Unicode isn't mysterious if you ignore the hard parts. |
| 16:57 |
|
eric256 |
although if we use pl6 we could rename the languag plsix pronounced pel-ix ;) |
| 16:58 |
|
PerlJam |
eric256: plsix == please icks |
| 16:58 |
|
|
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| 16:59 |
|
* Limbic_Region |
plans on compiling all of his p6 programs to byte code so the .pbc extension makes sense ;-) |
| 17:00 |
|
autrijus |
Limbic_Region: as soon as lexpad is there we can have -CPIR.PBC :) |
| 17:00 |
|
xinming |
autrijus: hmm, I know, on Os which determines the file is executable is by an attribute. But On Os which isn't, the extension is used. that's why I think .pl and .pl6 is better, as some program will generate .p1 .p2 .p3 for packages(though there isn't one), hmm, IIRC, winrar use this scheme if you compress a large file and divide them into small part. |
| 17:00 |
|
autrijus |
or should it be -CParrot.PBC |
| 17:00 |
|
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| 17:00 |
|
autrijus |
xinming: I don't think winrar uses .p1 etc... or I might be wrong |
| 17:01 |
|
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| 17:01 |
|
LimbicRegion |
grrr - I hate when that happens |
| 17:01 |
|
|
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| 17:01 |
|
theorbtwo |
No, it uses r?? -- rar and r00, r01... |
| 17:01 |
|
xinming |
autrijus: winrar don't use .p1 or .p2. It use r01 r02 r03... |
| 17:01 |
|
autrijus |
right |
| 17:02 |
|
LimbicRegion |
autrijus - jhorwitz showed up in #parrot today asking about the state of Pugs/Parrot interopability (specifically with objects) |
| 17:02 |
|
LimbicRegion |
I mentioned the "awaiting lex implementation" |
| 17:02 |
|
LimbicRegion |
and pointed him to your "day before parrot release" journal entry |
| 17:02 |
|
xinming |
hmm, why choose p6, In my opinion, It might be for the compiled byte-code. |
| 17:02 |
|
|
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| 17:02 |
|
autrijus |
the bytecode would be .pbc for the parrot runtime |
| 17:03 |
|
autrijus |
LimbicRegion: oh nice |
| 17:03 |
|
PerlJam |
xinming: Are .pl and .pl6 files for Perl Libraries and Perl 6 Libraries respectively? |
| 17:03 |
|
|
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| 17:03 |
|
* Limbic_Region |
was only joking about compiling everything to bytecode though |
| 17:03 |
|
|
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| 17:04 |
|
PerlJam |
xinming: and what about .plx files? |
| 17:04 |
|
xinming |
PerlJam: .pl is stand for the "current" version of perl(maybe perl 5, maybe perl 6), and .pl6 for specified version of perl, for perl 6 |
| 17:04 |
|
PerlJam |
the trouble with having a good memory is that you don't forget stuff ;) |
| 17:05 |
|
Limbic_Region |
PerlJam - the problem with having a good memory with bad recall is that you feel even more stupid that you hadn't forgot something but needed someone else point it out to you |
| 17:06 |
|
geoffb |
[OT] Anyone happen to know a decent free tool that can easily diagram relationships in a SQL DB? $client is allergic to ASCII art, I'm allergic to MS Access, and the sooner this gets dealt with, the sooner I can be a Perl 6 Playa again . . . :-) |
| 17:06 |
|
xinming |
PerlJam: It doesn't conflict with .pl? scheme. :-) |
| 17:06 |
|
* Limbic_Region |
wonders if there is a test that can actually measure memory without the limitations of recall |
| 17:07 |
|
Limbic_Region |
geoffb - you lost me at "free" |
| 17:07 |
|
geoffb |
sigh |
| 17:07 |
|
geoffb |
Time to relearn PIC . . . . |
| 17:07 |
|
theorbtwo |
You could try dia, I hear good things about it. |
| 17:07 |
|
theorbtwo |
Of course, that'd be nonautomated. |
| 17:08 |
|
|
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| 17:08 |
|
autrijus |
geoffb: SQL::Translator::Producer::GraphViz |
| 17:08 |
|
Limbic_Region |
geoffb - http://www.databaseanswers.com[…]delling_tools.htm |
| 17:08 |
|
autrijus |
(iirc.) |
| 17:08 |
|
Limbic_Region |
google is your friend |
| 17:09 |
|
geoffb |
theorbtwo, no problem, it's only 10 tables, half of which are just audit versions of the other half, with absolutely trivial relationships . . . but $client just hates doing things the easy way . . . |
| 17:09 |
|
geoffb |
Limbic_Region, point taken |
| 17:09 |
|
geoffb |
autrijus, hmmm, thanks for the idea |
| 17:09 |
|
* Limbic_Region |
didn't realize there were so many free options out there |
| 17:10 |
|
* Limbic_Region |
wonders if he should have fought the purchase of Erwin a little harder now |
| 17:10 |
|
* Limbic_Region |
wanders off for lunch |
| 17:12 |
|
stevan |
hullo autrijus :) |
| 17:14 |
|
autrijus |
greetings stevan |
| 17:14 |
|
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| 17:14 |
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| 17:21 |
|
robkinyon |
autrijus: I have a question re: single-pass interpreters (like Ruby/Perl5), if you don't mind |
| 17:21 |
|
autrijus |
sure |
| 17:22 |
|
robkinyon |
I was looking at Ruby's source to see if I could add in user-defined lexically-scoped syntax |
| 17:22 |
|
robkinyon |
The way it's written, the keyword and ops lists are both static and the lexer is hard-coded |
| 17:22 |
|
PerlJam |
perl5 is single pass? I've always thought of it more like a 2-steps-forward-one-step-back kind of compiler :) |
| 17:23 |
|
robkinyon |
Shouldn't it be possible to have a table of funcps that respond to the longest-match lexeme, with context thrown in there for good measure, calling the top funcp on the stack (to provide user-defined capabilities) ? |
| 17:23 |
|
eric256 |
perljam...i think i heard its a two pass, but the second pass progrresses right behind the first pass. that ameka any sense? ;) |
| 17:23 |
|
robkinyon |
And, that, in theory, shouldn't be too much slower than the current switch table |
| 17:24 |
|
autrijus |
robkinyon: I think you just described perl6 macros. |
| 17:24 |
|
robkinyon |
Oh |
| 17:24 |
|
robkinyon |
:-) |
| 17:24 |
|
robkinyon |
In theory, that's not too hard to implement (assuming a strong graps of C which I had and lost) |
| 17:25 |
|
* PerlJam |
gives robkinyon a strong graps so that he can apply it to C |
| 17:26 |
|
robkinyon |
The only part I'm finding problematic in my mental model is how to determine which lexemes are legal where. For example, within the condition of an if-statement, certain things are legal that aren't legal outside it, and vice-versa |
| 17:26 |
|
robkinyon |
So, one would associate a lexeme within a given context to a given funcp ... ? |
| 17:27 |
|
robkinyon |
Or, am I off base? |
| 17:27 |
|
autrijus |
robkinyon: yes. the context is called grammatical category |
| 17:27 |
|
robkinyon |
ahhh |
| 17:27 |
|
autrijus |
the lexeme is parsed using "is parsed" specification |
| 17:27 |
|
* robkinyon |
wasn't lucky enough to take compiler theory in college |
| 17:27 |
|
|
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| 17:27 |
|
autrijus |
the funcp is the macro |
| 17:28 |
|
robkinyon |
"is parsed" specification? |
| 17:28 |
|
autrijus |
and it's not comp theory, it's perl6 :) |
| 17:28 |
|
robkinyon |
heh |
| 17:28 |
|
robkinyon |
hmm |
| 17:29 |
|
autrijus |
for some bit about macros, see S06 (and A06 for fun) |
| 17:29 |
|
autrijus |
for grammatical categories, see S12 |
| 17:29 |
|
robkinyon |
I was thinking about hacking this into the Ruby executable |
| 17:29 |
|
robkinyon |
seeing as ruby's codebase is significantly easier to work with than Perl's |
| 17:30 |
|
autrijus |
I'm not too sure about that :) |
| 17:30 |
|
autrijus |
you may have better luck with yc/yarv... maybe |
| 17:30 |
|
robkinyon |
yc/yarv? |
| 17:30 |
|
autrijus |
the nextgen ruby runtime |
| 17:30 |
|
autrijus |
yarv is ruby's parrot |
| 17:31 |
|
autrijus |
see this http://www.atdot.net/yc/compile |
| 17:31 |
|
autrijus |
also http://www.atdot.net/yarv/ |
| 17:31 |
|
stevan |
YARV++ |
| 17:31 |
|
robkinyon |
I want to avoid working with Parrot until I see Parrot actually implement a full range of stuff |
| 17:31 |
|
robkinyon |
Plus, I like how everything in Ruby is an object, including the runtime |
| 17:31 |
|
stevan |
robkinyon: not parrot,.. its an unrelated project |
| 17:32 |
|
robkinyon |
Oh - so ruby won't be targeting parrot? |
| 17:32 |
|
stevan |
robkinyon: who knows,. but that is not what YARV is :) |
| 17:32 |
|
stevan |
robkinyon: see the inst table http://www.atdot.net/yarv/insnstbl.html |
| 17:33 |
|
stevan |
the first 50 are all you really need,..everything after that is an optimization |
| 17:33 |
|
stevan |
#26 newrange |
| 17:33 |
|
stevan |
autrijus: speaking of bad-ass language runtimes :) |
| 17:34 |
|
stevan |
autrijus: any more thoughts/work on the sendmsg stuff? |
| 17:34 |
|
autrijus |
stevan: you saw that I'm converting the entire PIL special forms into sendmsgs |
| 17:35 |
|
stevan |
autrijus: no I didnt,.. where? |
| 17:35 |
|
autrijus |
next step is introduce Arglist and Siglist objs |
| 17:35 |
|
autrijus |
to replace even more special forms |
| 17:35 |
|
stevan |
nice |
| 17:35 |
|
stevan |
did you see I added a closure::signature last night |
| 17:35 |
|
autrijus |
stevan: see http://use.perl.org/~autrijus/journal/27490 on Apply, Bind and Assign |
| 17:35 |
|
autrijus |
yeah I saw that |
| 17:35 |
|
stevan |
so that is supports return type checking :) |
| 17:36 |
|
theorbtwo |
Oh, speaking of, did you see... |
| 17:36 |
|
autrijus |
very nice |
| 17:36 |
|
theorbtwo |
?eval my ($a, $b) = (1,2); ($a, $b)>>++; |
| 17:36 |
|
evalbot_7915 |
Error: Can't modify constant item: VInt 1 |
| 17:36 |
|
rafl |
autrijus: I want to give a talk about perl6/pugs on friday. I'd like to steak something from your pugs talks. How are they licensed? Am I allowed to steal? |
| 17:37 |
|
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| 17:37 |
|
theorbtwo |
AFAICS, that's getting treated as j-random-list, and not like an arglist. |
| 17:37 |
|
autrijus |
rafl: I hereby release it in the Microsoft Permissive License ;) |
| 17:38 |
|
autrijus |
rafl: or SQLite "license", or CC-by-2.0, or BSD3, or whatever |
| 17:38 |
|
rafl |
autrijus: I interpret that as a "Yes" :-) |
| 17:38 |
|
autrijus |
that interpretation would be correct. |
| 17:38 |
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sili |
charge royalties |
| 17:40 |
|
rafl |
autrijus: I'm also happy to hear your Pugs and Haskell talks in march :-) |
| 17:41 |
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robkinyon |
autrijus: Thanks |
| 17:42 |
|
autrijus |
rafl: :D |
| 17:45 |
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rafl |
I'm still in doubt about the visual basic talk, though. |
| 17:47 |
|
rafl |
autrijus: Hey! Stop making new talks or updating them.. I get a mail every time! ;-) |
| 17:50 |
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| 18:00 |
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autrijus |
couldn't quite bring myself to journal... tomorrow then |
| 18:00 |
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autrijus |
good night folks :) & |
| 18:00 |
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geoffb |
good night, autrijus |
| 18:09 |
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Simonff |
Hi - can anyone help me with a Pugs compilation error? |
| 18:09 |
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geoffb |
Simonff, nopaste it |
| 18:10 |
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Simonff |
geoffb: http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/IY7AkL50.html |
| 18:11 |
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geoffb |
Hmmm, someone got this a day or two ago . . . I don't recall the answer, but it should be in the IRC logs (see pugscode.org -> IRC logs in the left menu) |
| 18:14 |
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Simonff |
That was me, on Sunday. I was told to try the SVN version, but the problem persists. |
| 18:14 |
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geoffb |
oh. |
| 18:14 |
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geoffb |
sorry about that |
| 18:14 |
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Simonff |
np :) |
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svnbot6 |
r7916 | asavige++ | added golfex.t misc golf examples |
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svnbot6 |
r7917 | asavige++ | fixed comments in golfex.t |
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| 19:10 |
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robkinyon |
In #ruby-lang, someone just asked "How do I write a function that accepts a single array containing two numbers?" |
| 19:10 |
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robkinyon |
I'm curious - what would the P6 signature for that look like? |
| 19:12 |
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iblech |
robkinyon: my sub foo ([$first_elem, $second_elem]) {...} IIRC |
| 19:12 |
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iblech |
(Which will, of course, work with both foo @array and foo $arrayref) |
| 19:13 |
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robkinyon |
my sub foo ([Int $width, Int $height]) { ... } ? |
| 19:13 |
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iblech |
Yep. |
| 19:13 |
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iblech |
see http://dev.perl.org/perl6/doc/design/syn/S06.html, "Unpacking array parameters" |
| 19:14 |
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robkinyon |
What about: my sub foo ([Int $width, Int $height], $other_param) { ... } ? |
| 19:14 |
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iblech |
Works too |
| 19:14 |
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robkinyon |
when is this going to be released again? |
| 19:14 |
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iblech |
You can even say things like ([Int $width, Int $height = $default_height, Int ?$optional_depth]) |
| 19:14 |
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theorbtwo |
When it's ready. |
| 19:14 |
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iblech |
:) |
| 19:15 |
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robkinyon |
theorbtwo: *sighs* |
| 19:28 |
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nothingmuch |
if it's an array taking two params it might as well be a tuple |
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cognominal_ |
this is a form pattern matching (in the haskell sens). I wonder why perl6 does not go the whole way and does not explicitely support algebraic types |
| 19:59 |
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cognominal_ |
s/form/form of/ |
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robkinyon |
Question: Will there be an analog to Ruby's :foo? |
| 20:04 |
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robkinyon |
That creates a singleton symbol called :foo that can be used everywhere |
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| 21:53 |
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mugwump |
?eval "RT"++ |
| 21:53 |
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evalbot_7917 |
Error: Can't modify constant item: VStr "RT" |
| 21:53 |
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mugwump |
:) |
| 21:53 |
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mugwump |
?eval ($x="RT")++ |
| 21:53 |
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evalbot_7917 |
Error: Undeclared variable: "$x" |
| 21:53 |
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mugwump |
?eval (mr $x="RT")++ |
| 21:53 |
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evalbot_7917 |
Error: No compatible subroutine found: "&mr" |
| 21:53 |
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mugwump |
?eval (my $x="RT")++ |
| 21:53 |
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evalbot_7917 |
Error: No compatible subroutine found: "&my" |
| 21:53 |
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mugwump |
?eval my $x ="RT"; $x++ |
| 21:53 |
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evalbot_7917 |
"RT" |
| 21:54 |
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mugwump |
There you go, obra - RT++ is still RT |
| 21:55 |
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obra |
:) |
| 21:57 |
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| 22:05 |
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coral |
interesting. it's ok to modify an instance of a constant but not the constant itself? |
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| 22:36 |
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cognominal_ |
?eval say (0..)[0] |
| 22:36 |
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evalbot_7917 |
Error: unexpected "(" expecting block construct, ":", term, term postfix, operator, postfix conditional, postfix loop, postfix iteration, ";" or end of input |
| 22:36 |
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obra |
seen autrijus |
| 22:36 |
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jabbot |
obra: autrijus was seen 4 hours 36 minutes 10 seconds ago |
| 22:36 |
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cognominal_ |
?eval say (qw(a) )[0] |
| 22:36 |
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evalbot_7917 |
Error: unexpected "(" expecting block construct, ":", operator, ")", term postfix, postfix conditional, postfix loop, postfix iteration, ";" or end of input |
| 22:36 |
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| 22:36 |
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cognominal_ |
say qw(a) |
| 22:37 |
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cognominal_ |
?eval say qw(a) |
| 22:37 |
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evalbot_7917 |
a bool::true |
| 22:37 |
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wolverian |
?eval say (0...)[0] |
| 22:37 |
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evalbot_7917 |
0 bool::true |
| 22:37 |
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wolverian |
cognominal_, you missed one . |
| 22:37 |
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cognominal_ |
thx |
| 22:37 |
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cognominal_ |
sub take(Int $n, Code &f) { (1..$n).map:{ f() } } |
| 22:38 |
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cognominal_ |
my $compteur = coro { for 1... -> $i { yield $i; } }; |
| 22:38 |
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cognominal_ |
my @a; |
| 22:38 |
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cognominal_ |
say ( @a = take 10, $compteur ) while @a[0] <20; |
| 22:39 |
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cognominal_ |
apparently 1.. is not lazy because it loops without returning anything |
| 22:40 |
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cognominal_ |
if I give an finitie integer as upper bound everything is fine |
| 22:57 |
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eric256 |
opps...don't hit F5 in the web based IRC chat ;) |
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cognominal_ |
encore une de ces conneries de la nasa pour eviter une collision d'un asteroid avec la terre sur /. |
| 23:35 |
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cognominal_ |
ils doivent vraiment avoir du mal a justifier leur budget. |
| 23:43 |
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| 23:49 |
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buu |
?eval say +(0..)[2] |
| 23:49 |
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evalbot_7917 |
Error: unexpected ")" expecting term |
| 23:49 |
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buu |
Eh? |
| 23:50 |
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buu |
?eval say (0..) |
| 23:50 |
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evalbot_7917 |
Error: unexpected "(" expecting block construct, ":", term, term postfix, operator, postfix conditional, postfix loop, postfix iteration, ";" or end of input |
| 23:50 |
|
buu |
?eval my @x = (0..); say @x |
| 23:50 |
|
evalbot_7917 |
Error: unexpected ")" expecting term |
| 23:50 |
|
buu |
Wtf? |
| 23:50 |
|
buu |
?eval my @x = 0..; say @x |
| 23:50 |
|
evalbot_7917 |
Error: unexpected ";" expecting term |
| 23:50 |
|
wolverian |
... |
| 23:50 |
|
wolverian |
not .. |
| 23:50 |
|
buu |
?eval my @x = 0...; say @x |
| 23:50 |
|
evalbot_7917 |
pugs: out of memory (requested 1048576 bytes) |
| 23:50 |
|
buu |
heh |
| 23:50 |
|
buu |
So much for 'lazy' |
| 23:51 |
|
buu |
?eval say (0...)[0] |
| 23:51 |
|
evalbot_7917 |
0 bool::true |
| 23:51 |
|
buu |
?eval say (0...)[3] |
| 23:51 |
|
evalbot_7917 |
3 bool::true |
| 23:51 |
|
buu |
?eval say (0...)[180] |
| 23:51 |
|
evalbot_7917 |
180 bool::true |
| 23:51 |
|
buu |
Interesting. |
| 23:57 |
|
sili |
eh? what is that? |
| 23:57 |
|
sili |
infinity? |
| 23:58 |
|
mugwump |
?eval say (0...)[-1] |
| 23:58 |
|
evalbot_7917 |
pugs: out of memory (requested 1048576 bytes) |
| 23:58 |
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| 23:58 |
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sili |
i think that means yes. |
| 23:58 |
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mugwump |
should be inf! :) |
