Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2005-11-14

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
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00:37 luqui for anybody who knows: where is the "\^J" etc syntax documented
00:38 luqui Now that ^ is a sigil, this causes problems with escaping
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00:50 leo luqui: sorry for the dumb question: what should "\^J" mean?  
00:50 leo escape-wise
00:57 leo luqui: did you mean "\cJ" perhaps?
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01:07 luqui oh, a control character
01:07 luqui currently implemented in pugs
01:09 leo the \^ would be really overkill then, I'd drop that (nothing against TIMTOWTDI, but ...)
01:10 luqui ahh, \c would be a much better choice for that
01:10 luqui I'll look at the docs
01:10 leo well perldoc perlre ;-)
01:11 luqui but is that also in strings?
01:11 leo as a side note - this pod isn't the proper place to explain perl5 string escapes, but it does
01:12 luqui it appears so
01:12 leo that sayeth the text
01:12 leo and it works iirc
01:13 leo there are about 5 working constructs to escape non-ascii, I never heard of "\^J"
01:14 luqui yeah, I hadn't either
01:14 luqui just changed it to \c
01:15 leo parrot supports:
01:15 leo             \xhh        1..2 hex digits
01:15 leo             \ooo        1..3 oct digits
01:15 leo             \cX         control char X
01:15 leo             \x{h..h}    1..8 hex digits
01:15 leo             \uhhhh      4 hex digits
01:15 leo             \Uhhhhhhhh  8 hex digits
01:15 leo             \a, \b, \t, \n, \v, \f, \r, \e
01:15 leo enuff I think ;-)
01:16 luqui :-)
01:17 * leo was pondering /N{foo} too, when reading perlre
01:18 luqui is ^A traditional ASCII 0 or 1?
01:18 leo because of cross-compilation - the "parser" or/and the runtime has to support it
01:19 * luqui doesn't see why...
01:19 leo ^A = 1 ; ^@ = 0
01:20 luqui aa soo
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01:22 leo I don't know how fit haskell/pugs is WRT unicode, but parrot supports it (or supports more unicode), *if* the ICU lib is installed
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01:29 luqui ?eval "foo".substr:1
01:29 evalbot_7950 Error: Unimplemented 3-ary op: substr
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02:19 svnbot6 r7951 | luqui++ | Delete Language::AttributeGrammar.  I'll resurrect it at some point.
02:19 svnbot6 r7952 | luqui++ | Added mandatoryWhiteSpace combinator (needs cleanup).
02:19 svnbot6 r7952 | luqui++ | Changed \^X control char to \cX, as per spec.  Also fixed math so that
02:19 svnbot6 r7952 | luqui++ | \cA refers to char 1 rather than 0 (where \c@ refers to 0).
02:19 svnbot6 r7952 | luqui++ | Implemented method-call listop form:  $obj.method: arg1, arg2.
02:19 svnbot6 r7953 | luqui++ | Added some tests for these changes.  The listop method needs
02:19 svnbot6 r7953 | luqui++ | many many more, though.
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02:34 luqui ?eval "check it out".substr: 4, 6
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02:34 evalbot_7953 \"k it o"
02:34 luqui woot and whatnot
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02:45 Alias_ autrijus: ping?
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05:21 dduncan I have yet to track it down, but there seems to be a problem with pugs smoke that started to manifest after I switched to svk ... the smoke report doesn't mention a pugs revision number in it, while otherwise seeming to generate correctly, and after uploading it to the server, the server ignores it / doesn't display it, perhaps since undef is lower than the last highest versions ...
05:21 dduncan I uploaded two repository / darwin over the last few days, one just now, that don't show up
05:22 dduncan is anyone else successfully uploading smokes and using svk?
05:25 gaal dduncan: please fix in util/yaml_harness.pl around line 196
05:26 gaal also possibly add an early error/warning in smoke-client against reports with missing r numbers
05:26 dduncan will have a look ...
05:26 gaal dduncan++
05:26 gaal $work &
05:26 dduncan may have to wait for tomorrow, as I must sleep
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05:27 gaal do you know what the svk command is to get the right upstream r number?
05:29 dduncan no, but the 'make' process is able to get it when building pugs itself I think, so I can try looking there ... I know it involves invoking svk
05:29 dduncan as in, seeing how make does it
05:29 gaal of course :) well, i really have to go now, so good luck
05:29 dduncan right ... I'll try to do this tomorrow ... but doesn't look too complicated
05:30 dduncan if all goes well, should checkin it in about 12 hours from now
05:30 gaal cool.
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06:02 autrijus gaal: I'm still stuck at $work, will checkback tonight (in 6hrs), but excellent article :)
06:02 svnbot6 r7954 | autrijus++ | * Trivial copyediting over gaal++'s excellent tpr article.
06:02 svnbot6 r7954 | autrijus++ | * Update animals.p6 to use more elegant (and less misleading)
06:02 svnbot6 r7954 | autrijus++ |   given/when clauses.
06:02 Alias_ autrijus: ping
06:02 autrijus Alias_: yes?
06:02 autrijus (yes I had not booked ticket nor applied for visa -- later today)
06:03 Alias_ If I were to nudge brisbane.pm about having a meeting, would you be interested in taking a drive up there one evening to talk?
06:03 autrijus of course yes
06:03 Alias_ Probably in the trolltech offices there
06:03 autrijus sure. if they all went to osdc I may need to think of something new though
06:03 Alias_ I'm note sure how many will be
06:03 autrijus if not, then I'll just repeat my osdc talk, which would be least effort
06:03 Alias_ Coverage isn't great
06:03 autrijus try inquire a bit
06:04 Alias_ brisbane.pm is one of those sometimes alive, sometimes dead groups :)
06:04 autrijus . o O (Weremongers)
06:04 obra    hi
06:05 autrijus greetings obra-san.
06:05 obra autrijus: how's .tw?
06:05 autrijus busy. too many forgotten previously arranged meetings and deadlines
06:05 autrijus some 1283 unread mails
06:05 autrijus but that's all part of course :)
06:05 obra heh
06:06 autrijus I'm doing fine though and finally beat jetlag, which is a definite improvement
06:06 autrijus can't do much creative things under jetlag
06:07 autrijus (gotta run)
06:07 autrijus bbiab :) &
06:07 obra later
06:07 obra understood
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07:46 gaal autrijus: thanks! I'm at $work myself and the article has been pushed to another issue, so there's no rush.
07:47 gaal also, when ({}) Just Works now that ~~ CODE has been implemented, so I don't need direct help with that (though I'm still *very much* interested in more general pointers about tracing Parsec parsers!)
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09:50 clkao it seems dduncan and i have exclusive timezone
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10:44 gaal "underlapping schedules" is my term for that kind of thing
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13:09 nothingmuch who runs the log bot?
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13:13 Juerd The logbotmaster!
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15:24 robkinyon Anyone here understand math at a high level?
15:24 robkinyon blazar just threw me a curveball and I want to discuss w/someone before I reply
15:25 robkinyon particularly in terms of sets, iterators, type inferencing, and the like
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17:47 dduncan I'm back
17:47 dduncan so will now look at that yaml harness thing and hopefully have a fix in an hour
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18:30 dduncan seen gaal
18:30 jabbot dduncan: gaal was seen 7 hours 46 minutes 2 seconds ago
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18:37 gaal hi dduncan
18:37 dduncan hello
18:37 dduncan I seem to have tracked the problem and determined a solutin
18:37 gaal great!
18:38 dduncan it appears to be more widespread than I though too
18:38 dduncan ./pugs -v doesn't work either
18:38 dduncan so what I will do is ...
18:38 gaal so PugsConfig.pm is broken too?
18:38 gaal there must be 'svn info's sprinkled around
18:39 dduncan update version_h.pl to work with svk correctly, it doesn't, so pugs own internal version is 0 when under svk
18:39 gaal my Q#1 is whether svk can get the upstream r number w/o talking over the wire
18:39 dduncan and update the harness to use the same pugs_version.h which that makes and that pugs' build uses
18:39 gaal my Q#2 is if it's correct to put in an r number at all if there are loca changes
18:40 dduncan gaal, I've determined that for #1 yes, but you have to invoke it twice
18:40 dduncan at least, for a standard setup of a svk user having a remote mirror and a local copy ...
18:40 gaal yes i don't think we need to worry about pugs forks at this point ;-)
18:41 dduncan the first 'svk info' will give us the local rev #, not the remote one, but also the name of the local mirror
18:41 dduncan using that, we call svk info again with the name of the local mirror, and that gives us the rev of the remote one
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18:41 gaal brb, something's up with my cat
18:42 dduncan in any event, I noticed that the test harness is redoing (differently) the work in version_h, rather than reusing its output
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18:44 gaal i'm not actually sure which came first :)
18:45 gaal but by all means, unify!
18:45 dduncan the current version_h is naive, assuming a plain 'svk info' on the cwd has the right info, but it doesn't in many cases, so result = 0
18:45 dduncan the test harness ignores svk entirely, with a todo item
18:46 dduncan thanks for pointing me in the right direction, though, as I never used the 'info' command before
18:46 dduncan which the test harness you pointed me to did
18:47 gaal re: which svk to use, that could be controlled by config.yml
18:47 dduncan I notice even the handling of svn is different in the two files ... version_h looks at the .svn files, the harness does a shell call to svn info
18:47 gaal yeah
18:48 gaal peeking at .svn is both better and worse.
18:49 dduncan I should point out that the output of svn/k info contains enough info, or seems to, that we can autodetect the user's setup enough to get version, I think
18:49 gaal in any case: the harness probably shouldn't do this at all, but get the version from pugs (or version_h)
18:49 gaal okay, go for it :)
18:49 dduncan true ... if pugs is fixed to work, the harness can use that
18:50 dduncan so I'll fix this in 2 steps, first just get pugs to contain the version always, and separately the smoke
18:50 gaal sounds good to me
18:50 gaal dduncan++
18:50 gaal bbiab &
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19:26 theorbtw1 BTW: When you upgrade any of that, check the case where svk is installed but has never been used.
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19:28 theorbtwo I rewrote version_h (IIRC) to fix that case.
19:29 r0nny yo
19:29 dduncan hello
19:29 dduncan well, commit it ... then I won't have to fix it
19:30 dduncan otherwise I'm prepared to, right now
19:30 theorbtwo dduncan: I did -- several months ago.
19:30 dduncan well, the current version has a problem
19:30 dduncan the problems I describe are the current version
19:30 dduncan so unless someone undid your changes ...
19:31 * dduncan back in 15 mins
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20:36 xinming anyone here know about haskell?
20:39 nothingmuch xinming: sort of
20:39 nothingmuch but the people on #haskell know much better
20:39 nothingmuch and they're nice
20:39 xinming nothingmuch: hmm, But i am too new, might be bothersome to them. :-/
20:39 nothingmuch nonesense, they're nice
20:39 nothingmuch but i am willing to help first here
20:40 nothingmuch if you feel more comfortable
20:41 xinming hmm, how to make a lambda contain another lambda?
20:44 xinming hmm, well, I don't mean the normal lambda, I mean the lambda contain the pattern match
20:45 integral you use a case-of
20:45 integral \x -> case x of ...
20:46 SamB newbies not considered harmful
20:46 xinming (\a -> case x of [] -> 0; case x of (x:y) -> x + "outer lambda" )
20:46 xinming oops
20:47 SamB though I guess if we don't understand your questions it won't be very useful for you to come to #haskell...
20:47 xinming SamB: I saw your in haskell, But I wish to ask more complex question there. :-)
20:48 xinming I was attracted by the example Lemmih show me
20:48 SamB usually when your lambdas get that complicated you try to stick the function in a "let" or a "where"
20:49 integral I don't like those since I can't then test the function individually from ghci;  but then it can't close either *sigh*
20:50 xinming SamB: haskell interpreter can't define the function on the fly... that's why I feel lambda more confortable.
20:50 SamB well, if it is self-contained, you could just stick a "let" in front and paste it, then test it
20:50 SamB in GHCi
20:50 SamB not hugs though
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20:52 SamB er, well, I guess not unless you use ; and put it all on one line...
20:53 xinming (\a -> case a of [] -> 0; case a of (x:y) -> x + y )[2,3]
20:53 * SamB usually tries to put functions so complicated he wants to test them interactively at the top level
20:53 integral xinming: I gave you can example in #haskell
20:53 xinming integral: Ok
20:53 integral you mean: (\a -> case a of { [] -> 0; [x,y] -> x + y; _ -> error "oops") [2,3]
20:56 pawel Juerd: Are you there?
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21:38 pmurias a bit OT:Are there any plans to extend a haskell compiler to generate pasm/pir/pil/?
21:41 SamB why would you want any of those?
21:41 SamB GHC generates C-- internally
21:41 integral pmurias: you should feel free to grab a copy of something like jhc and hack away :)
21:41 SamB when it isn't compiling to bytecode, that is
21:43 pmurias i suppose it would improve the integration of haskell libs with parrot..
21:45 dduncan okay, first part of fix is committed
21:46 pmurias and make writing hybrid haskell/tcl-or-pir-or-perl6 easier
21:46 dduncan now pugs revision is properly gathered when client is svk
21:46 dduncan so pugs -V actually works
21:46 integral golly, that bit of code is nothing but hassle :)
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21:47 jdv79 seen stevan
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21:48 svnbot6 r7955 | Darren_Duncan++ |  r832@Darren-Duncans-Computer:  darrenduncan | 2005-11-14 13:44:49 -0800
21:48 svnbot6 r7955 | Darren_Duncan++ |  updated util/version_h.pl so that 'make' updates /src/Pugs/pugs_version.h properly when svk is configured with the standard //svk/trunk and //svk/local duality ... it now looks up the version from the trunk referred to by the local, and not just the local
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22:04 dduncan the second fix is done, and I'm doing a smoke to test that that works ... will commit in an hour or so
22:04 dduncan yaml_harness now gets its revision from pugs itself, rather than svn
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23:10 j0sephi http://picasa.hu ;-) :)
23:13 theorbtwo Nifty.
23:13 theorbtwo (And not always SFW.)
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23:30 svnbot6 r7956 | Darren_Duncan++ |  r834@Darren-Duncans-Computer:  darrenduncan | 2005-11-14 15:29:29 -0800
23:30 svnbot6 r7956 | Darren_Duncan++ |  update util/yaml_harness.pl so get_revision() gets revision from pugs itself rather than from svn ... so it works with svk too
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23:52 quicksilver stevan: ping
23:58 quicksilver stevan: when you have a moment come to irc.perl.org#dbix-class, mst + I have some thoughts about class::C3
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