Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2005-11-16

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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04:27 Alias_ autrijus: ping?
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10:00 svnbot6 r7957 | luqui++ | Changed "is lazy" (which is used nowhere) to reflect the semantics
10:00 svnbot6 r7957 | luqui++ | I recently proposed on p6l, hoping that that's the way it ends up.
10:00 svnbot6 r7957 | luqui++ | Well... almost; it doesn't cache the value.  Maybe that's a good thing
10:00 svnbot6 r7957 | luqui++ | (how else would you implement infix:<for>?).
10:01 luqui ?eval sub infix:<myfor> ($exp is lazy, @list) { for @list { $exp() } }    say "hi" for 1..10
10:01 evalbot_7956 is now known as evalbot_7957
10:01 evalbot_7957 OUTPUT[hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi ] undef
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10:02 luqui hmm, still need to handle $_ somehow...
10:04 luqui ?eval sub bind (*@list, *&code) { @list.map:&code }   bind 1,2,3 { $_, $_+1 }
10:04 evalbot_7957 Error:  unexpected ":" expecting term postfix, operator, postfix conditional, postfix loop, postfix iteration, ";" or "}"
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10:04 luqui ?eval sub bind (*@list, *&code) { @list.map:&code }   bind 1,2,3, { $_, $_+1 }
10:04 evalbot_7957 Error:  unexpected ":" expecting term postfix, operator, postfix conditional, postfix loop, postfix iteration, ";" or "}"
10:04 luqui ?eval sub bind (*@list, *&code) { @list.map(&code) }   bind 1,2,3, { $_, $_+1 }
10:04 evalbot_7957 Error: Slurpy array followed by slurpy scalar: MkParam {isInvocant = False, isOptional = False, isNamed = False, isLValue = True, isWritable = False, isLazy = False, paramName = "&code", paramContext = CxtSlurpy (mkType "Code"), paramDefault = Noop}
10:04 luqui hmm
10:05 luqui ?eval sub bind (*@list) { my &code = @list.pop; @list.map(&code) }   bind 1,2,3, { $_, $_+1 }
10:05 evalbot_7957 Error: cannot cast from VCode (MkCode {isMulti = False, subName = "<anon>", subType = SubBlock, subEnv = Just (MkEnv {envContext = CxtSlurpy (mkType "Any"), envLValue = False, envLexical = MkPad (padToList [("$?1",[(<ref>,<ref>)]),("$_",[(<ref>,<ref>)]),("$__evalbot_print",[(<ref>,<ref>)]),("$code",[(<ref>,<ref>)]),("$lang",[(<ref>,<ref>)]),("&?BLOCK_EXIT",[(<ref>,<ref>),(<ref>,<ref>),(<ref>,<ref>),(<ref>,<ref>),(<ref>,<ref>),(<ref>,<ref>)]),("&bre
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10:05 luqui ?eval sub bind (*@list) { my &code = @list.pop; @list.map:{ &code($_) } }   bind 1,2,3, { $_, $_+1 }
10:05 evalbot_7957 Error: cannot cast from VCode (MkCode {isMulti = False, subName = "<anon>", subType = SubBlock, subEnv = Just (MkEnv {envContext = CxtSlurpy (mkType "Any"), envLValue = False, envLexical = MkPad (padToList [("$?1",[(<ref>,<ref>)]),("$_",[(<ref>,<ref>)]),("$__evalbot_print",[(<ref>,<ref>)]),("$code",[(<ref>,<ref>)]),("$lang",[(<ref>,<ref>)]),("&?BLOCK_EXIT",[(<ref>,<ref>),(<ref>,<ref>),(<ref>,<ref>),(<ref>,<ref>),(<ref>,<ref>),(<ref>,<ref>)]),("&bre
10:06 luqui ?eval sub bind (*@list) { my $code = @list.pop; @list.map:{ $code($_) } }   bind 1,2,3, { $_, $_+1 }
10:06 evalbot_7957 Error: cannot cast from VCode (MkCode {isMulti = False, subName = "<anon>", subType = SubBlock, subEnv = Just (MkEnv {envContext = CxtSlurpy (mkType "Any"), envLValue = False, envLexical = MkPad (padToList [("$?1",[(<ref>,<ref>)]),("$_",[(<ref>,<ref>)]),("$__evalbot_print",[(<ref>,<ref>)]),("$code",[(<ref>,<ref>)]),("$lang",[(<ref>,<ref>)]),("&?BLOCK_EXIT",[(<ref>,<ref>),(<ref>,<ref>),(<ref>,<ref>),(<ref>,<ref>),(<ref>,<ref>),(<ref>,<ref>)]),("&bre
10:06 luqui grr
10:15 x86 whoa
10:15 x86 perl6 has real objects? heh
10:16 x86 where you can call a method on a variable using . ?
10:16 luqui x86 what do you mean "where"?
10:16 luqui oh
10:16 luqui that wasn't a question
10:16 x86 ?eval my $test = "hello"; $test.print;
10:16 evalbot_7957 OUTPUT[hello] bool::true
10:16 luqui it was a followup
10:16 x86 whoa, cool!
10:16 luqui new to the perl6 world eh?
10:16 x86 like java and so forth
10:17 x86 yeah lol
10:17 x86 all i know is that it uses parrot ;)
10:17 x86 and pugs
10:17 x86 what does the : operator do?
10:17 luqui it appends an "adverb" to a method call
10:18 x86 adverb?
10:18 luqui it was introduced to get rid of those ugly parens in:  @list.map({ ... })
10:18 luqui er, long story
10:18 x86 ah i see
10:18 x86 makes sense
10:19 x86 now can you still do the oldschool way like print $variable ?
10:19 luqui turns out that that adverb block is the same block that is given to the "for" function (which you can now define yourself)
10:19 luqui certainly
10:19 x86 or do you have to do $variable.print ?
10:19 luqui ?eval print "hello, world"
10:19 evalbot_7957 OUTPUT[hello, world] bool::true
10:19 x86 hehe i hope perl6 maintains perl5 compatibility for a while ;)
10:19 luqui hehe, nope
10:19 x86 no?
10:20 luqui the point of the project was to break perl5 compatibility
10:20 luqui because perl5 is full
10:20 x86 there is no perl5.pm?
10:20 x86 "full" ?
10:20 luqui there's no more syntax we can add to it
10:20 x86 why?
10:20 luqui just about every string of characters already has a valid interpretation :-)
10:21 x86 so how does perl6 fix that?
10:21 luqui oh, but you mean the ability to use eg. perl5 modules in perl6 programs?
10:21 x86 right
10:21 luqui oh yeah, we're working on that
10:21 luqui you can do it in pugs (with caveats)
10:21 x86 "we're" ?
10:21 luqui use perl5:DBI;
10:21 luqui design team.  Nicholas Clark mostly
10:22 x86 working with larry wall?
10:22 luqui uh huh
10:22 x86 you know him?
10:22 luqui uh huh :-)
10:22 x86 in real life?
10:22 * luqui visited the japanese garden with him and Gloria
10:22 x86 gloria?
10:22 luqui his wife
10:22 x86 japanese garden?
10:22 luqui in portland, during OSCON
10:22 x86 cool :)
10:23 x86 i hear he hates IRC :P
10:23 x86 is that true?
10:23 luqui yeah, he says he wastes enough time on email
10:23 x86 hehe
10:23 x86 prolly true
10:23 x86 so what's his dayjob?
10:24 luqui he finally got hired somewhere
10:24 luqui I don't remember though
10:24 luqui some sort of consulting I think
10:24 luqui he was employed only by TPF grants for a while...
10:27 luqui play with perl 6.  you'll like it  (well, probably not without learning some of it you won't, but hey)
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10:35 wolverian how I love 1000+kB/s connections
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10:43 luqui somebody who knows the pugs internals: ping
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10:52 tewk ll
10:52 luqui SS
10:57 x86 tt
10:59 tewk So how is the object stuff in per6 going?  and compiling to parrot?  
10:59 luqui no idea
11:00 luqui IIRC, according to autrijus's journal, compiling to parrot is working nicely
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13:04 svnbot6 r7958 | luqui++ |  r717@jabberwock:  luqui | 2005-11-16 06:01:01 +0000
13:04 svnbot6 r7958 | luqui++ |  Made the name of an operator being defined visible within the sub.  This
13:04 svnbot6 r7958 | luqui++ |  is important for unary ops and operator definitions.
13:04 svnbot6 r7958 | luqui++ |  Also made it possible to take new operator names (say, @@) as parameters,
13:04 svnbot6 r7958 | luqui++ |  not already-parsing ones.
13:11 luqui ?eval product 1..10
13:11 evalbot_7957 is now known as evalbot_7958
13:11 evalbot_7958 Error: No compatible subroutine found: "&product"
13:11 luqui ?eval [*] 1..10
13:11 evalbot_7958 3628800
13:11 luqui ?eval sub postfix:<!> ($x) { [*] 1..$x }   3!
13:11 evalbot_7958 6
13:11 luqui ?eval sub postfix:<!> ($x) { [*] 1..$x }   4!
13:11 evalbot_7958 24
13:12 luqui ?eval sub postfix:<!> ($x) { $x ?? $x * ($x-1)! !! 1 }   4!
13:12 evalbot_7958 Error:  unexpected "!" expecting term postfix, operator, ">>xx<<", ">>+&<<", ">>+<<<", ">>+><<", ">>~&<<", ">>~<<<", ">>~><<", ">>*<<", ">>/<<", ">>%<<", ">>x<<", "\187xx\171", "\187+&\171", "\187+<\171", "\187+>\171", "\187~&\171", "\187~<\171", "\187~>\171", "\187*\171", "\187/\171", "\187%\171", "\187x\171", "xx", "+&", "+<", "+>", "~&", "~<", "~>", "*", "/", "%", "x" or "!!"
13:12 luqui ?eval sub postfix:<!> ($x) { $x ?? $x * (($x-1)!) !! 1 }   4!
13:12 evalbot_7958 Error:  unexpected "!" expecting term postfix, operator or ")"
13:12 luqui ?eval sub postfix:<!> ($x) { [*] 1..$x }   5!
13:12 evalbot_7958 120
13:12 luqui ?eval sub postfix:<!> ($x) { [*] 1..$x }   (5+1)!
13:12 evalbot_7958 720
13:13 luqui ?eval sub postfix:<!> ($x) { if $x == 0 { 1 } else { $x * (($x-1)!) } }
13:13 evalbot_7958 Error:  unexpected "i" expecting ";", statements or "}" reserved word
13:13 wolverian that looks rather broken :)
13:15 luqui ?eval sub postfix:<@@> ($x, $y) { if $y == 0 { $x } else { $y @@ $x % $y } }   6 @@ 9
13:15 evalbot_7958 Error:  unexpected "i" expecting ";", statements or "}" reserved word
13:15 luqui sonofa!
13:15 luqui I thought I just fixed that
13:15 luqui ?eval sub infix:<@@> ($x, $y) { if $y == 0 { $x } else { $y @@ $x % $y } }   6 @@ 9
13:15 evalbot_7958 \3
13:16 luqui oh, I did, but apparently just for infix
13:16 luqui ?eval sub postfix:<!> ($x) { say $x; ($x-1)! }
13:16 evalbot_7958 Error:  unexpected "!" expecting term postfix, operator, postfix conditional, postfix loop, postfix iteration, ";" or "}"
13:16 luqui ?eval sub postfix:<``> ($x) { say $x; ``($x-1) }
13:16 evalbot_7958 Error:  unexpected "`" expecting ";", statements or "}"
13:16 luqui ?eval sub prefix:<``> ($x) { say $x; ``($x-1) }
13:17 evalbot_7958 Error:  unexpected "`" expecting ";", statements or "}"
13:17 luqui geez
13:17 luqui ?eval sub postfixfix:<``> ($x) { say $x; ($x-1)`` }
13:17 evalbot_7958 Error:  unexpected ":" expecting word character, "::", bare trait, subroutine parameters, trait or block
13:17 luqui heh
13:17 luqui ?eval sub postfix:<``> ($x) { say $x; ($x-1)`` }
13:17 evalbot_7958 Error:  unexpected "`" expecting term postfix, operator, postfix conditional, postfix loop, postfix iteration, ";" or "}"
13:17 luqui ?eval sub postfix:<@@> ($x) { say $x; ($x-1)@@ }
13:17 evalbot_7958 Error:  unexpected "@" expecting term postfix, operator, postfix conditional, postfix loop, postfix iteration, ";" or "}"
13:17 luqui okay fine, it doesn't work
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13:50 r0nny yo
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15:22 robkinyon autrijus: ping
15:23 liz6 seen autrijus
15:23 jabbot liz6: autrijus was seen 2 days 9 hours 16 minutes 2 seconds ago
15:23 robkinyon gack
15:23 robkinyon anyone else here good w/svk?
15:24 robkinyon I can't seem to get SVN::Core installed, even though I've recompiled svn w/swig bindings
15:25 broquaint You might want to try clkao, robkinyon.
15:25 robkinyon seen clkao
15:25 jabbot robkinyon: clkao was seen 4 hours 50 minutes 58 seconds ago
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15:25 robkinyon grr
15:26 robkinyon clkao: ping
15:26 robkinyon (for whenever)
15:27 clkao hi
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15:31 robkinyon clkao: I installed swig, then compiled svn, but SVN::Core doesn't seem to be installed
15:31 robkinyon what am I doing wrong?
15:32 clkao did you do make check-swig-pl and install-swig-pl ?
15:32 robkinyon no ... was that documented somewhere?
15:32 robkinyon I installed swig off of CPAN, so I though it would install the Perl bindings
15:33 robkinyon or is that for SVN?
15:34 clkao yes, last line of subversion's INSTALL
15:35 robkinyon clkao: thanks
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16:03 pawel ping
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16:27 pmurias does anyone know how to make ghc emit C--?
16:31 ajs_ C--?
16:32 ajs_ As in the GTK bindings for C++?
16:33 SamB pmurias: hmm.
16:33 SamB ajs_: thats GTK--
16:33 theorbtwo C-- is a language closer to portable assembler then C.
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16:34 theorbtwo www.cminusminus.org
16:34 SamB pmurias: you'd need to hack it, it looks like
16:34 SamB pmurias: or at least use a more recent version of GHC than 6.4
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16:35 SamB pmurias: it shouldn't be too hard though
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16:41 svnbot6 r7959 | luqui++ | Ugh.  Rolled back my two most recent changes, as they cause
16:41 svnbot6 r7959 | luqui++ | the Precompiled Prelude generation to hang.  Don't have time
16:41 svnbot6 r7959 | luqui++ | to "fix" it right now, so I'll just leave it in a working state.
16:46 pmurias Is it possible and how do you manipulate haskell data structures from perl6?
16:49 pmurias Would a i have to inline haskell code?
16:50 SamB pmurias: its not even really possible from C...
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17:16 pmurias are there any parts of pugs which are untested? I could write some tests if they are needed.
17:18 xinming pmurias: There are many, But you have to find it yourself. ;-)
17:18 Alias_ First, write a Devel::Cover equivalent
17:25 theorbtwo You might want to start by looking at hat: http://www.cs.york.ac.uk/fp/hat/
17:31 sapper has quit IRC ("Leaving")
17:31 r0nny yo
17:31 r0nny is there a exclusive exteonsion for perl6 modules ?
17:31 r0nny want to change the vim autosyntax stuff
17:33 autrijus .p6 I think
17:33 autrijus oh you mean modules
17:33 autrijus no, probably not
17:33 autrijus and .p6 is just transitional anyway
17:34 autrijus but modules usually begin with "module" or "class"
17:34 autrijus or "role"
17:34 geoffb autrijus!!
17:34 autrijus greetings!
17:34 geoffb Good Day!
17:34 autrijus I survived! (was abducted by another book after Unicode Demystified)
17:35 autrijus but it's worth the abduction.
17:35 geoffb oh, which book?
17:35 autrijus Code Complete 2nd Edition (cc2e.com)
17:35 autrijus I...wish I had this book 10 years ago ;)
17:36 * autrijus is tempted to add it to READTHEM
17:36 geoffb I was wondering if that was worth picking up . . .
17:36 autrijus oh, totally totally worth it.
17:37 Alias_ Unicode Demystified?
17:37 Alias_ Must be a VERY big book
17:37 autrijus Alias_: it is.
17:37 autrijus but Code Complete is bigger
17:37 autrijus and more relevant, anyway
17:37 geoffb I tend to pick books by going to a bookstore, finding likely titles, paging through them and reading random bits.  If there's something new in there, I pick it up.  It may have been bad luck, but CC failed that test last time.
17:37 ntgrl _Code Complete_ is definately a good one :)  lots of lovely experimental results
17:38 autrijus CC is really not for random access :)
17:38 geoffb OK, fair enough.
17:38 geoffb >> reading-pile
17:38 autrijus it's almost completely sequential and would only make sense that way
17:38 autrijus imvvho
17:39 geoffb nodnod
17:39 Alias_ ugh... I hate when you are getting distracted from your distractions to fix code that is need by ... etc...
17:39 Alias_ The worst bit is when you fix the very most distracted thing and then forget how you got to where you are
17:40 geoffb Alias_, you have just discovered the joy of yak shaving
17:40 Alias_ it has a name?
17:40 geoffb yup
17:41 autrijus and reading CC is definitely yakshaving for perl6/pugs :)
17:41 Alias_ yep, I'm most definitely yak shaving
17:42 Alias_ Actually, I managed to stop myself from refactoring Template Toolkit
17:42 geoffb oh my
17:42 geoffb good save
17:42 Alias_ Which would have been where I got a bit too close to the Yak's ass for comfort
17:42 geoffb lol
17:42 Alias_ codegen is just one big excuse for yak shaving
17:42 saorge has quit IRC (Connection timed out)
17:43 Alias_ "... hmm... but I could solve this in the generic case by ..."
17:43 Alias_ "... and I'd never have to solve this problem in any application ever again if..."
17:43 Alias_ 50% of my modules are probably due to it too
17:43 geoffb Go ahead, Alias_, be the "unreasonable man" -- you know you want to
17:43 geoffb heh
17:44 ntgrl Is there a module yet for doing nicely indented/prettified output?
17:44 theorbtwo Data::Dump::Streamer?
17:44 Alias_ This time around it's "you know, with a Template filter I'd never have to work out which forms needed enctype="multipart/form-data"
17:44 geoffb Nice -- the specs page on the C-- site is 403
17:44 ntgrl theorbtwo: umm, but I'm not outputting perl code...
17:45 geoffb ntgrl, are you asking about Perl 5?  Or Perl 6?
17:45 saorge has joined #perl6
17:45 ntgrl geoffb: either.  I was thinking something like Text.PrettyPrint.HughesPJ
17:45 geoffb ah
17:46 theorbtwo Oh.
17:46 * theorbtwo suddenly notices that this isn't #london.pm
17:48 Alias_ aha! I finally remember where I was
17:48 theorbtwo Ugh!  The current version of hat in debian is from 2003!
17:49 autrijus ...and wouldn't work with GHC anyway
17:49 ingy has joined #perl6
17:50 geoffb $time, ingy
17:50 * theorbtwo wonders if he wants current-release or CVS.
17:51 theorbtwo Well, since 2.04 doesn't even get past it's make system, let's try CVS.
17:52 autrijus ingy: yo
17:52 autrijus Alias_: no matter what I did on rex.com it always bails with "internal system error"
17:52 autrijus what's wrong with that site?
17:52 theorbtwo Whee: detects that I don't have hmake, and tries to use it anyway.
17:52 Alias_ It's COMPLETELY fucked
17:53 Alias_ I wrote a huge rant to the company
17:53 theorbtwo This does not bode well to the usability of the code.
17:53 Alias_ autrijus: You pretty much need to change browsers
17:53 Alias_ I think it's the sessions getting screwed
17:53 autrijus wtf :(
17:53 Alias_ So maybe flush cookies or something
17:53 Alias_ I needed three browsers to get through
17:53 autrijus so what worked?
17:54 Alias_ They all work, you just can't date leave the most direct line
17:54 Alias_ dare
17:54 Alias_ So flush everything, then search, select, book, pay immediately
17:54 Alias_ Don't let the session get stale
17:54 Alias_ It's that bad
17:54 autrijus I see.
17:55 autrijus yup, that's it.
17:55 * geoffb ponders what to do with day: write overdue O'Reilly blog, hack gjbforth, hack PIGGE, fall asleep with eyes open and hands at kb . . . .
17:55 Alias_ I'm going to ring in the morning
17:55 autrijus how very retarded.
17:55 autrijus Alias_: so, conf ends 7th @ melbourne. are you going to osdc, and how/when are you flying back if so?
17:56 Alias_ I'm going, I haven't booked flights yet
17:56 autrijus I need to give a talk on 12th in sydney, no other engagements
17:56 Alias_ hmm
17:56 Alias_ Let me see if anyone does Ballina to Melbourne direct
17:56 Alias_ That might be a better option
17:57 stevan hey autrijus :)
17:57 Alias_ but I don't think they do
17:57 autrijus anyway, the plan is to fly back with you whenever your flight is
17:57 Alias_ ok
17:57 Alias_ I'll let you know the flight to book
17:57 autrijus stevan: hey! CC2e totally r0x0rz
17:57 autrijus Alias_: good, because it will just be two roundtrips for me
17:57 autrijus sydney<->melbourne and then sydney<->lismore
17:58 * stevan hasn't read that, but has been told to by many people
17:58 autrijus maybe more reasonable than sydney->melbounre->ballina->lismore->sydney
17:58 * stevan is currently reading The Stars My Destination, by (Alfred Bester)++
17:58 Alias_ oh, we'd drive from ballina
17:58 Alias_ half an hour
17:58 Alias_ oh wait, I see
17:59 Alias_ So you get into Syd and someone is paying Syd<->Mel
17:59 hlen has quit IRC ("freezing window manager =/")
17:59 Alias_ But they haven't booked specific flights?
18:00 stevan autrijus: I had/am-having a crazy idea about introducing SML-like module signatures into the Perl6::Core::
18:01 stevan then the metamodel can program to the signatures,.. and the core:: then can be easily swapped out
18:01 autrijus stevan: good, been thinking about the same
18:01 Alias_ SML?
18:01 stevan and instead of wrapping the metamodel,... we can do something which maps Roles to module sigs
18:01 autrijus sexp is a bit too dyn
18:01 stevan Alias_: Standard ML
18:01 stevan autrijus: sexp is mostly just for fun :)
18:02 autrijus well, luqui's idea has always been that functor (module sigs) becomes theories
18:02 autrijus so that may be that "something"
18:02 stevan yeah it maps nicely to theories :)
18:03 stevan in fact.,.. theory.pod suddenly made much more sense when I re-read the Functor chapter in my ML book
18:04 GeJ has joined #perl6
18:05 autrijus right, because I believe it originated from Scala and Scala took heavily from there
18:07 ruz has quit IRC ("Leaving")
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18:08 Alias_ autrijus: OK, there is no combination of flights that can get us from Melbourne to Lismore on the night of the 7th
18:08 Alias_ autrijus: So whoever is hosting you, plan to stay the night of the 7th
18:09 autrijus ack
18:09 autrijus so we fly 8th and I fly again on 13th
18:10 Alias_ we fly the 8th... I have no idea what you do on the 13th :)
18:10 autrijus er wait
18:10 autrijus I mean 11th ;)
18:10 Alias_ where and when is your Sydney commitment
18:10 Alias_ specifically
18:10 autrijus unsw, 12 morning
18:11 Alias_ ouch
18:11 Alias_ hmm
18:12 * autrijus ponders if Alias_ can also fly to unsw for more fun
18:12 Alias_ Maybe, but probably not
18:12 Alias_ I'm a bit overcommitted at the moment
18:12 * clkao giggles at autrijus
18:12 autrijus k... just tell me the times then
18:12 Alias_ It would be nice to go back to unsw though
18:13 Alias_ ok then, so looking at flight times, we have to take rex on the Lis<->Syd legs
18:13 Alias_ Nothing else can match the schedule
18:14 Alias_ Which means flight ZL338 departing Sydney 3:10pm
18:15 Alias_ on the 8th
18:15 Alias_ This app is SO fucked
18:15 autrijus okie, ack.
18:17 Alias_ and for you, return flight ZL319 departing 8:55am on the 11th
18:17 Alias_ which gives you time to grab a taxi to UNSW
18:17 Alias_ with about half an hour spare :)
18:17 autrijus that... is a bit mean
18:18 Alias_ oh this is FUCKED
18:18 autrijus it's 12th morning
18:18 Alias_ what?
18:18 autrijus not 12 noon morning
18:18 autrijus misparse, sorry for bogus input
18:18 autrijus (take this to /msg) ?
18:20 xern has joined #perl6
18:20 autrijus sorry for the flooding :)
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19:33 stevan autrijus: ping
19:33 autrijus pong
19:34 stevan hey,.. got time to chat about the module signature idea/
19:34 autrijus I'm very sorry but no, it's already way past bedtime :/
19:34 stevan ah,.. ok,.. :)
19:34 autrijus I'm back at an unfortunate time zone  ;)
19:34 autrijus 3:34am here
19:34 stevan 2:33 pm, here :)
19:35 Bit-Man has joined #perl6
19:35 autrijus almost maximally wrong, sigh
19:35 stevan ok,.. so maybe tomorrow morning my time/evening your time?
19:35 stevan or maybe talk late night tonight for me,,.. early morning tomorrow for you?
19:35 stevan whenever you have some time basically :)
19:36 autrijus write it down first, then?
19:36 stevan good idea,,.. i will do that
19:36 autrijus I'll have plenty of time starting tomorrow
19:36 autrijus but net connectivity might be limited
19:36 stevan ok
19:36 obra where you headed?
19:36 autrijus I'm discovering this Reality thing isn't that bad after all and am coding things up in hot springs etc.
19:36 autrijus obra: random pleasant place nearby
19:37 autrijus s/place/places/
19:37 obra nice
19:41 azuroth has joined #perl6
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19:49 Bit-Man has quit IRC ("Chatzilla 0.9.68.5.1 [Firefox 1.0.7/20050915]")
19:50 liz6 autri: yes, but you don't see me...
19:55 * autrijus mumbles something about nickserv and freenode
19:55 * liz6 mumbles utters something back
19:56 autrijus oh well. I'll mail instead and sleep. *wave*
19:56 * liz6 waves back
20:01 * xinming won't stop waving until autrijus got asleep...
20:01 xinming He might get a sleepless night if I do so. ;-)
20:10 rep has joined #perl6
20:11 r0nny_ *back*
20:11 r0nny_ can anyone here have a better vim file then the actual one ?
20:12 r0nny_ s/can/does/
20:12 PerlJam "better vim file"?
20:12 r0nny_ u know - syntax highlighting
20:12 PerlJam If the syntax highlighter is borked, fix it!
20:12 foxbox has joined #perl6
20:12 liz6 has left
20:13 r0nny_ the perl6 syntax file scared me away
20:14 r0nny_ think i found what broke the module name-highlighting
20:18 Mitar has joined #perl6
20:18 Mitar would it be possible to implement haskell under parrot?
20:18 Mitar so are there any structural limits for implementing running haskell under parrot?
20:19 Mitar like that parrot does not support anything what would haskell need?
20:19 Mitar i know that everyhing could be simulated, but this would give perfomance penalty
20:19 xinming 0,8,24,48,80,120 what's next number please?
20:19 Mitar 42
20:19 xinming a maths question. :-/
20:19 Mitar :-)
20:19 Mitar it could be any number
20:20 ntgrl 0*8, 1*8, 3*8, 6*8, 10*8, etc
20:20 Mitar mathematically
20:20 xinming ....
20:20 Mitar but you could ask which is the next number the author of the sequence thinks of
20:20 xinming and found the relation between 0 1 3 6 10.
20:20 ntgrl which is good ol' triangular numbess
20:20 r0nny_ im to lazy for finding the rule
20:21 ntgrl 1/2*n*(n+1)(8
20:21 ntgrl 4*n*(n+1)
20:21 xinming I am poor at maths :'(
20:21 PerlJam I think the correct solution here is to write a perl6 program that finds the next number  ;-)
20:22 ntgrl xinming: you can draw out 0, 1, 3, 6, 10 as little patterns of dots and put those into triangles
20:23 xinming ?eval my @a = [0,8,24,48,80,120]; { $_.say } for @a; my @b = [1..10]; { $_.say } for @b;
20:23 evalbot_7958 is now known as evalbot_7959
20:23 evalbot_7959 undef
20:23 xinming :-P
20:23 qwr try to subtract following numbers ;)
20:25 dduncan has joined #perl6
20:25 Mitar so does anybody knows an answer to my question?
20:25 qwr 120?
20:26 PerlJam Mitar: parrot could implement haskell, yes.
20:26 xinming Mitar: It will have one. :-)
20:26 Mitar is there some info on that?
20:26 xinming qwr: Yes, the answer is 120, But I feel regret for my poor maths in the school.
20:27 PerlJam I thought 120 was in the given set?
20:27 ntgrl the next number is 168, qwr
20:27 xinming the next is 168
20:27 xinming :-/
20:27 PerlJam the next numbers would be 168, 224, 288  (I think)
20:28 xinming PerlJam: Exactly
20:28 ntgrl then it's 360.
20:28 Mitar PerlJam?
20:28 PerlJam ntgrl: then 440
20:29 xinming ...
20:29 ntgrl and eventually 1002000
20:29 PerlJam heh
20:29 PerlJam ntgrl: and at some point it will be 1600080000
20:30 PerlJam There's an interesting pattern there.  Not sure if it's "real" or not though
20:30 ntgrl what?  that they're approximately the squares? :P
20:31 PerlJam Why would anyone want to multiply triangluar numbers by 8 anyway?
20:31 qwr (n^2 - 1) * 8
20:31 ntgrl qwr: umm, no
20:31 Mitar has left
20:31 theorbtwo To annoy math students, PJ.
20:31 ntgrl 4*(n^2 + n)
20:31 xinming ...
20:32 * xinming wish to go back to school and learn maths.
20:32 qwr that is, when guess by looking some middle numbers ;)
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22:43 svnbot6 r7960 | lwall++ | Could create -I options without an argument.
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22:46 ntgrl *blink* lwall!
22:48 SamB has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22:48 * Alias_ blinks too
22:49 SamB has joined #perl6
22:50 cp5 has joined #perl6
22:50 ntgrl hmm, not a bad patch as patches go
22:51 cp5 is now known as samy
22:54 ingy seen autrijus
22:54 jabbot ingy: autrijus was seen 2 hours 58 minutes 27 seconds ago
22:54 ingy hi samy
22:54 ingy long time
22:54 samy hey ingy
22:54 samy yeah, how are you?
22:55 ingy fine
22:55 joepurl has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:55 samy what are you doing these days
22:55 ingy heading to Taiwan for a couple months
22:55 * liz6 has waved autri to sleep
22:55 ingy hi liz6
22:55 samy wow
22:55 ingy long time
22:55 liz6 indeed......   trying to catch up...
22:56 liz6 in the midst of $work++
23:02 liz6 has left
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23:19 svnbot6 r7961 | lwall++ | range.t didn't test 'z'..'aa' carry, and was confused about 3..2ish things.
23:21 cognominal_ has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
23:24 stevan horray for our new committer lwall :)
23:25 foxbox has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:28 cognominal_ has joined #perl6
23:29 dduncan hey, it had to happen sooner or later
23:29 leo recently nearby at #perl6: 00:19 < svnbot6> r7961 | lwall ...range.t didn't test 'z'..'aa' carry, and was confused about 3..2ish
23:29 leo                 things.
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23:31 leo oops  pasted into wrong channel
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23:39 dbrock how would I make hyphens synonymous to underscores in identifiers, and does Pugs support this?
23:40 dduncan do you mean that you want to use a hyphen as part of an identifier?
23:40 dbrock yes
23:41 dbrock I also want to be able to call `foo_bar' by typing `foo-bar'
23:41 dduncan I think you do it like ('foo')
23:41 dbrock I don't understand
23:41 dduncan at least, package name references can contain variables, such as ...
23:41 luqui has joined #perl6
23:42 SamB dbrock: #lisp called. they want their hyphens back.
23:42 dduncan $text = &::($module_name)::get_text_by_key( $msg_key );
23:43 dduncan in that case, part of an identifier is in a variable ... I suspect that in this usage the identifier can contain any characters ... not sure though
23:44 dduncan my example meant &::('foo')::bar(), for example
23:44 dbrock SamB: hey, lots of people, not only Lisp weenies, use hyphens instead of underscores
23:44 dduncan or, Pkg::('foo-bar')()
23:44 dbrock dduncan: okay... well, I don't want my code to look like that
23:44 SamB dbrock: in what?
23:45 dbrock dduncan: although that is cool
23:45 Bit-Man has joined #perl6
23:45 dduncan I don't know if that would work, but I think that is how it would look if it did
23:45 dbrock SamB: take CSS, for example
23:45 dduncan fyi, my quoted example with $text actually does work
23:46 dduncan also, the paren notation works when specifying the version part of a module, for example, ...
23:46 luqui SamB, also, it is canonical for BNFs
23:46 dduncan use Foo-(0.0.2..0.1.3);
23:46 dduncan versus
23:46 dbrock I don't want my code to look like $text = &('get-text-by-key')($('msg-key'));
23:46 dduncan use Foo-0.3.0;
23:47 theorbtwo Feel free to warp the parser.
23:47 dduncan maybe the & isn't necessary ...
23:47 dbrock I want it to look like $text = get-text-by-key($msg-key);
23:47 theorbtwo But note that then you can no longer say time-3600 to mean time()-3600.
23:47 theorbtwo There are quite likely other conflicts as well.
23:47 dduncan the key thing is that if you have parens inside an identifier, they seem to interpolate any variable
23:47 dbrock theorbtwo: yes, obviously I can't do that
23:47 theorbtwo dduncan: I think it's only ::().
23:48 dduncan perhaps... that's only where I've seen it work
23:48 dbrock I would write "time - 3600" anyway
23:48 dbrock theorbtwo: how do I warp the parser?
23:48 dduncan I think that if we're going to start allowing '-' as part of identifiers, we should allow any characters, and require them to be delimited
23:49 dduncan this is how SQL works, fyi
23:49 dduncan an identifier can contain anything, even spaces, if it is double-quote delimited
23:49 dbrock but I don't want to double-quote my identifiers
23:49 theorbtwo In present-day pugs, by hacking haskell code.  In perl6 as specced... well, don't know, but you can do it without hacking anything but rules.
23:49 dduncan then don't use funny characters in them
23:50 dbrock dduncan: the hyphen is not a "funny character"; it is roughly as common as the underscore as word-separator in identifiers
23:51 dduncan well, I suppose that if any use of subtraction requires spaces to be around the -, it could work
23:51 dduncan but only in that case
23:51 dbrock yes, and I think that is desirable
23:52 theorbtwo I don't.
23:52 dduncan personally, I wouldn't want to use a - in identifiers, though
23:52 theorbtwo It's often a good idea, but sometimes not.
23:53 dbrock why do you think it's not a good idea in this case?
23:53 dduncan dbrock, if you want to be able to have hyphens in identifiers, make your case on perl6-language
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23:55 dduncan on that note, while perl 6 is highly about blazing new trails and finding a better way, even if no one else has done something before, what existing languages do you know of that allow hyphens in bareword identifiers?
23:55 * luqui likes hyphens
23:56 dduncan bareword meaning non-delimited
23:56 luqui dbrock, however, can you give another example to back up your claim that hyphens are about as common as underscores?
23:56 dduncan in the context I'm referring to
23:57 dbrock luqui: I think the fact that all Lisp-derived languages use hyphens is enough to put it in the same ballpark
23:57 dbrock that includes languages like Dylan
23:58 luqui dbrock, yeah, but they also use many other characters in identifiers
23:58 luqui ',*,?,!,etc.
23:58 dbrock luqui: sure, they also allow underscores, but noone uses them
23:59 SamB the lexical syntax allows them, but the community would lynch you...
23:59 luqui dbrock, there is one problem I have with allowing hyphens
23:59 dbrock signal names in GObject allow both hyphens and underscores and treat them as synonyms --- I think this is the way to go if you want to appeal to Lispers and Unix people equally
23:59 luqui but it's not the hyphen in particular that I'm opposed to
23:59 luqui it's the possibility of having both hyphens and underscores

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