Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2005-11-30

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
00:03 luqui where'd svnbot6 go?
00:03 luqui 8023 happneed half an hour ago
00:06 robkinyon luqui: Apparently, svnbot6 has been somewhat tardy in its updates to the channel
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00:21 buu Heh
00:21 buu It's telling #buubot
00:22 buu 19:09 < svnbot6> r8024 | luqui++ | Added the introduction to theory.pod version 2, called the "type metatheory of
00:22 buu Oh duh
00:22 buu I have ops.
00:23 buu It should work now.
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01:33 * stu7 is looking, but not finding anywhere to download a working perl6 ?
01:33 wolverian it has not been released yet. see pugscode.org
01:34 stu7 okey, thx wolverian
01:34 wolverian if you're on windows, you can install http://www.pxperl.com/?pxperl
01:35 wolverian (which includes pugs compiled ready for you :)
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06:06 dduncan hey, CPAN's mirroring is working again ... we can now see the new stuff on the mirrors
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08:14 meppl guten morgen
08:22 dduncan ?eval my $foo = [4,5]; $foo.perl;
08:22 evalbot_8024 "[4, 5]"
08:23 dduncan ?eval my $foo = [4=>7,{5=>8}]; $foo.perl;
08:23 evalbot_8024 "[(4 => 7), \{(\"5\" => 8),}]"
08:23 dduncan question: is a Pair key supposed to be stringified like a hash key?
08:24 luqui not in general
08:25 luqui A Pair[a,b] is just a tuple of two things.  The *standard* hash is constructed by Pair[Str,b].
08:25 luqui (As are named arguments)
08:25 dduncan I see ...
08:25 dduncan and I suppose that an array is constructed by Pair[Int,b]
08:25 luqui I suppose so
08:26 luqui In fact, noticing that symmetry, we might not want to call hashes that are keyed by non-strings hashes.
08:27 luqui Maybe:  Array[b] : Pair[Int,b] :: Hash[b] : Pair[Str,b] :: Map[a,b] : Pair[a,b]
08:27 luqui (like an SAT analogy)
08:27 dduncan ?eval my $foo = ['4'=>7,{5=>8}]; $foo.perl;
08:27 evalbot_8024 "[(\"4\" => 7), \{(\"5\" => 8),}]"
08:27 dduncan well that works when I'm explicit, at least
08:29 dduncan still, the main thing I was checking for tonight is that .perl works ... which is good, then I can use it soon
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08:44 nothingmuch dduncan: someone was looking for you on #catalyst the other day
08:44 nothingmuch i think it was LTjake
08:44 nothingmuch wrt Locale::Maketext
08:44 dduncan hello
08:44 nothingmuch hola =)
08:44 dduncan fyi, I've never been on #catalyst in my life
08:45 dduncan will probably change over the next month, though
08:45 dduncan do you know why?
08:46 dduncan besides #perl6, I regularly hang out on just #tangram and #dbix-class, currently ... the latter one or two sometimes mention catalyst
08:47 nothingmuch hmm
08:47 nothingmuch i don't know why
08:47 nothingmuch but i advised him to seek you out
08:47 dduncan also, Maketext isn't my module, but Keyedtext is
08:47 nothingmuch h
08:47 nothingmuch oh
08:47 nothingmuch oops =)
08:47 nothingmuch in that case I caused much confusion over nothing at all
08:48 dduncan well, if someone contacts me, I'll set them straight ... as can you if you're back there
08:49 dduncan oh, if you're game, I welcome feedback on the revised Overview.pod and TODO.pod under the Rosetta-Incubator docs ... the former has already been edited by one person
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08:50 dduncan suffice it to say that if my time doesn't get used up by other things, we should have a working database under pugs in less than 2 weeks
08:51 dduncan maybe in time for the 6.28.0 release
08:52 nothingmuch sorry, back
08:52 nothingmuch err, /me punts for now
08:52 nothingmuch $work is drowning me
08:52 dduncan no problem, I'm about to go to bed anyway
08:52 dduncan almost 1am here
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16:35 robkinyon anyone here know anything about PDFlib or where I can find a channel on IRC where such people live?
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17:22 r0nny re
17:25 j0sephi http://picasa.hu/1133365646-pic04031.jpg ;-))) :)
17:26 r0nny darn
17:26 r0nny there is still a problem with method dispatching
17:29 r0nny is there a way, to make each method to tell debug stuff ?
17:34 rafl r0nny: The current sixpan prototype will be in svn today, I guess.
17:34 r0nny rafl: sweet :)
17:36 stevan luqui: pong
17:39 r0nny darn
17:40 r0nny its in a loop somewhere, but there is no way, to have a loop
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17:53 gaal will that j0 guy stop spamming us?
18:04 robkinyon seen autrijus
18:04 robkinyon of course - jabbot is here
18:05 robkinyon s/is/isn't/
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19:14 * Aankhen`` goes to sleep.
19:14 Aankhen`` G'night.
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19:30 gaal Jesus fish! I quote: "if ($caller[1] =~ m/[.]pm \z/xms) {" <-scary to think of a module name with newlines in it, or that someone was paranoid enough to consider it
19:33 r0nny re
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20:12 gaal why does ruleStandaloneBlock exist?
20:14 gaal or rather, why must "the closing brace [...] be the last meaningful character on it line" ?
20:16 gaal and, on another topic, is there any insight about the name clash between the "fail" builtin and Test::fail?
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20:21 ingy_ seen autrijus
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20:41 robkinyon ingy_: jabbot isn't here
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20:47 ingy_ robkinyon: ok
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21:16 geoffb gaal, re: "scary to think of a module name" ... that regex ugliness brought to you by PBP.
21:17 geoffb (In which it is suggested to use \z and /xms on every regex, regardless of actual need.)
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22:00 DesreveR anyone ?
22:00 DesreveR got a problem with a member var - for some reason it wants to call a method instead of getting the vaule
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22:17 rafl Where shall I check in the sixpan tools prototype
22:17 rafl s/$/?/
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22:18 raptorXXX why almost everything i try from here : http://pleac.sourceforge.net/pleac_haskell/index.html
22:19 raptorXXX does not work, any idea (i'm not talking about regex wich as stated need additional module , seems outdated)
22:19 raptorXXX ghc 6.4
22:21 raptorXXX specificly "dot" notation..
22:21 DesreveR rafl: maybe contrib ?
22:21 raptorXXX oops i see
22:21 raptorXXX sorry
22:21 raptorXXX there is Helpers and there is module
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22:24 rafl DesreveR: I'd say misc.
22:25 geoffb .oO( Debugging interpreters *bites* )
22:26 rafl s/interpreters//
22:30 svnbot6 r8025 | rafl++ |  r22538@ata:  rafl | 2005-11-30 23:26:25 +0100
22:30 svnbot6 r8025 | rafl++ |  * Added the the current prototype for the sixpan tools. It's very proof of
22:30 svnbot6 r8025 | rafl++ |    concept but shows pretty well what it will be.
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22:37 geoffb rafl, *chuckle*
22:38 rafl geoffb: Err?
22:38 geoffb rafl: s/interpreters//
22:39 * Juerd_ yawns as feather leeches from the debian mirror at "only" 50 Mbit/s
22:39 raptorXXX has left
22:39 geoffb Still, nothing like having to write a decompiler just so you can figure out what's wrong with your compiler . . . .
22:39 geoffb Juerd_, yow.  Very nice
22:39 Juerd_ . . . ! :)
22:39 geoffb Same data center?
22:39 Juerd_ nafaik
22:40 Juerd_ Nope
22:40 geoffb I knew .nl had decent connectivity, but that's damned impressive.
22:40 rafl Juerd_: Do you (or a script) do a killall apache from time to time on feather?
22:41 rafl Juerd_: I actually don't like sixpan.perl6.nl being down every week or so.
22:41 Juerd_ geoffb: Within the same datacentre, I'd expect to get the full 100 Mbit/s
22:41 Juerd_ geoffb: Or damn close to it :)
22:41 Juerd_ rafl: No
22:41 Juerd_ rafl: Not that I know of, at least
22:42 geoffb Assuming the NIC and switch aren't in disagreement about duplex
22:42 Juerd_ rafl: What does your apache log as the shutdown reason?
22:42 Juerd_ geoffb: Sure, assuming all kinds of good settings :)
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22:42 Juerd_ geoffb: If someone screws their settings, of course you won't reach optimal speeds
22:43 Juerd_ geoffb: Actually, in an environment like this, there is no question about duplex. It's either full duplex, or not at all :)
22:43 Juerd_ geoffb: And in this kind of setup, one is usually very careful with autoneg enabled versus disabled.
22:43 geoffb nodnod
22:43 Juerd_ We have it disabled where possible, as that helps an extra few percent in performance.
22:44 Juerd_ Most of this is fixed at 100basetx-fd :)
22:44 geoffb Turning off negotiation gives better performance?  That doesn't say much about the negotiation.
22:44 Juerd_ Indeed.
22:44 rafl Juerd_: caught SIGTERM, shutting down
22:44 Juerd_ rafl: Hmmm
22:44 Juerd_ rafl: At what time?
22:45 rafl geoffb: Well, Am I wrong about that?
22:45 rafl Juerd_: unregulary
22:45 Juerd_ rafl: Weird, then
22:45 geoffb rafl, well, no . . . .
22:45 Juerd_ rafl: Can you name me the most recent?
22:45 Juerd_ rafl: It'll have to be done through sudo or cron, both of which are logged.
22:46 Juerd_ Also, I'm going home in 2 minutes :)
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22:47 rafl Juerd_:  Nov  4 23:56:00 2005 for example
22:48 rafl Juerd_: Any news about 22c3, btw?
22:48 Juerd_ rafl: Logs don't go back that much
22:49 Juerd_ rafl: Well, as it is right now, I'm more than out of cash
22:49 Juerd_ rafl: BUT - one client owes me 8000, and should have paid it by yesterday.
22:49 Juerd_ So I'm in a weird and uncertain situation right now.
22:50 PerlJam In america your path would be clear: sue for payment!  ;)
22:50 rafl Juerd_: Well.. shall I organize something to sleep for you in Berlin or not?
22:51 Juerd_ Theoretically, I have enough to pay bills and food for a few months, but practically, I can't travel much more than 500km because I'm out of gas and already using petrol...
22:51 Juerd_ rafl: If it's no big problem if I cancel last-minute, yes, please do arrange something.
22:51 Juerd_ I do *plan* on coming, but I'm not entirely sure I'll be able to
22:51 obra Juerd_: has the client given an excuse?
22:51 rafl Juerd_: It would only be unkind, I guess.
22:52 Juerd_ obra: No - but the invoice was due yesterday, so I haven't sent reminders yet.
22:52 rafl Juerd_: Well, so maybe you can send a mail to [email@hidden.address] and explain your situation? (and mention you know me)
22:52 Juerd_ obra: It's considered highly inpolite here, to send reminders before an invoice is due :(
22:52 Juerd_ rafl: Will do
22:53 rafl Juerd_: Thank you. Nice regards from me! :-)
22:53 obra Juerd_: but now that it's overdue, is it implite to call?
22:53 Juerd_ obra: Sort of. The expectation pattern is two paper reminders, then a call
22:54 obra two paper reminders after it's overdue?
22:54 obra wow.
22:54 obra That's...special.
22:54 obra And unthinkably tolerant here. Especially with a small vendor
22:54 Juerd_ obra: It's no exception to have to wait over 60 days to get your money.
22:54 pdcawley Um... I know perl 6 has 'gather', does it have an attendant 'scatter' or am I just confused?
22:54 obra Juerd_: right. but that's what PO terms are for.
22:54 obra If they negotiate net 60, they get net 60.
22:55 obra If they just fail to pay you, that's not ok.
22:55 Juerd_ obra: It's what they're for, but the economic climate doesn't allow strict enforcement.
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22:55 Juerd_ obra: This is the biggest problem in the micro-economic Netherlands...
22:55 obra Do you do contracts as some percentage up front?
22:56 Juerd_ Yes, but this wasn't work.
22:56 Juerd_ These are goods. Well, sort of.
22:56 obra heh
22:56 Juerd_ Domain names...
22:56 Juerd_ And because this is a very good customer, I have been less strict than usual with prepayment.
22:56 obra *nod*
22:57 Juerd_ And then shit happened in several areas simultaneously.
22:57 obra "Was a very good customer"
22:57 Juerd_ It's nice to sell a big bunch of domain names and make good profit
22:57 Juerd_ And they wanted this within a day, because they were planning on releasing their new commercial name to the public.
22:58 Juerd_ Now, I do expect to get paid soon
22:58 Juerd_ But I'd be lying if I said I was certain.
23:01 obra Best luck :)
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23:05 Juerd_ rafl: Sent
23:05 Juerd_ rafl: And I can't find any killall calls through sudo
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23:07 Juerd_ I'm going home now
23:07 Juerd_ afk
23:07 rafl Juerd_: OK. Doesn't matter.
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23:36 j0sephi http://picasa.hu/1133393718-1011_de4.jpg ;-) :)
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23:50 geoffb Someone who can op themselves in this channel, please kickban j0*

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