Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2005-12-08

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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00:15 rafl kane-xs: ping
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00:53 fridim hi
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00:58 rafl Hello fridim
01:03 rafl autrijus: Your svnbot is b0rked.
01:13 meppl gute nacht
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01:44 Juerd rafl: What's pbuilder used for on feather, and does it have to use >800 MB of storage?
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01:55 Khisanth Juerd: probably not cleaning up after building the packages?
01:55 Juerd I dunno
01:56 Juerd I'm looking for options to make backups for feather
01:56 Juerd I always want full system backups
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01:56 Juerd For several reasons, which I do not wish to discuss
01:56 Juerd However, this does mean that badly compressing data has to be carfully considered :)
01:57 Khisanth sudden catastrophic failure seems like a good enough reason :)
01:57 Juerd Khisanth: Well, one could argue that caches are unimportant to backup.
01:57 Juerd But I disagree, and want full system backups.
01:58 Juerd This does mean the size of the cache should be limited as much as is reasonable :)
01:58 Khisanth hrm you are also backing up things that were generated from other things that are also backed up?
01:58 Khisanth (and yes that was a horribly formed sentence)
01:59 Juerd If it can't shrink, then so be it. If it could, but would slow down things a lot, it's a silly sacrifice. But if data can be deleted without annoying side-effects, it should be done
01:59 Juerd Khisanth: By full system backup, I mean tar -z for each filesystem.
02:00 Juerd If something, like a database, cannot stand a backup, then it'll be dumped first. But both the live data and the dump are backed up.
02:01 Juerd This has been useful some times already.
02:02 Juerd Time for zzzzzzz
02:02 Juerd Bye
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02:53 dduncan question: do we have the entire month of december and more to get things into Pugs 6.28.0, or is there a desire to release sooner than that?
02:54 stevan dduncan: 6.28.0 is a major milestone, so it may take a little while
02:54 stevan although a good amount has been done (in prototype form) already
02:54 dduncan sounds good to me
02:55 dduncan I just wanted to have enough time to do my database stuff before it went out ... my main concern is if it was going out too early
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07:39 Alias_ Dear #perl6, everything Autrijus says about how I'm mistreating him is a lie
07:39 Alias_ That is all
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07:40 obra That only makes me believe it more
07:43 autrijus I'm not saying anything like that
07:44 obra :)
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08:21 pearl hi
08:31 autrijus pearl: hi!
08:32 dduncan hi
08:34 autrijus dduncan: hey :)
08:34 autrijus I'm just committing support code for "has $!foo"
08:35 dduncan okay
08:35 dduncan I'm about to go to bed, but can test that first
08:38 dduncan is it already committed or pending?
08:39 autrijus it is
08:39 autrijus I think r8106
08:41 dduncan got it ... now on 'make'
08:41 autrijus you should see a compiler warning; ignore it
08:41 autrijus a fix is in in 8107 (not functional changes)
08:42 dduncan if you mean "Pattern match(es) are non-exhaustive", then yes I saw it
08:42 dduncan but I downloaded 8107
08:43 dduncan making that ...
08:44 * dduncan brb
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08:47 dduncan done make ... now trying perl 6 compile test
08:48 dduncan it appears the problem is only half fixed ...
08:48 dduncan citing Cipher.pm as an example ...
08:49 dduncan It uses the form $self!method ...
08:49 dduncan eg, line 305 says: return $self!stringify($self.finish());
08:52 dduncan did you mean to be talking about private methods when you said r8106 had it?
08:53 dduncan by contrast, private attributes, "has $!foo", had already been parsing for awhile now
08:53 autrijus (it doesn't do anything though)
08:53 autrijus it didn't do anything, that is
08:53 autrijus doing $self!method now
08:54 dduncan I don't know ... Locale::KeyedText used "has $!foo" for the last month, and that aspect of it also executed correctly for the last month
08:54 dduncan or were those treated like public attributes before?
08:55 dduncan maybe some aspect of private attrs that I wasn't using is what you fixed?
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08:57 autrijus it was treated like publics
08:58 dduncan I understand now
08:58 autrijus self!bar support coming in
08:59 autrijus a sec
08:59 wolverian heh, self!bar is so ugly :)
09:00 dduncan on the other hand, it looks like self.bar but with an extra vertical line above the .
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09:01 wolverian yeah.
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09:06 autrijus r8109
09:06 autrijus bbiab
09:08 Khisanth easily mistaken for self|bar!
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09:08 Khisanth hmm self!bar selfibar
09:09 Khisanth ¦and| would probably be more fun ;)
09:11 dduncan now making 8109
09:18 dduncan hey, that seems to have done it ...
09:18 dduncan or Cipher.pm and most of its dependents compile now
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09:34 GeJ !pn skype
09:34 GeJ oops
09:34 GeJ sorry, my bad
09:38 meppl guten morgen
09:38 GeJ servus
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09:59 dduncan pray tell, what does the "+<<" operator do?  ... pugs doesn't parse it
10:00 dduncan bit shifting I think
10:00 dduncan but it still doesn't parse
10:00 dduncan Cipher::TEA uses that op a bunch of times, and +>> too
10:01 dduncan and others
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10:02 dduncan anyway, I fixed a bunch of apparent syntax errors in TEA.pm, but it won't compile due to these and related ops not parsing
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10:15 dduncan okay, I think I found the problem ...
10:15 dduncan the +<< should be +<, etc
10:17 dduncan that did it ... TEA.pm now compiles
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10:23 dduncan revision 8110 contains 17 lines of fixes to Cipher::TEA, so that module now compiles
10:23 dduncan more ext/ fixes another day
10:23 dduncan now I'm going to bed ... 2:23am
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11:16 rafl Juerd: Are 106M OK?
11:23 * frodo72 is away: I'll be back...
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11:48 Juerd rafl: Yes
11:48 Juerd rafl: The current 800 are too, iff they are needed :)
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13:32 rafl Juerd: I already remove most stuff I don't need.
13:34 Juerd Thanks!
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13:50 rafl kane_: ping
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13:56 kane-xs ralf pn0g
13:56 kane-xs rafl even
14:02 rafl kane-xs: I have some problems with the test suite.
14:02 kane-xs rafl: ok.. like what? :)
14:02 rafl t/011_JIB-Source..........ok 1/0rm: cannot chdir from `root-p5-b-1-cpan+KANE/p5-b-1-cpan+KANE/_jib' to `build': Permission denied
14:02 rafl [ERROR] 256
14:02 rafl t/011_JIB-Source..........NOK 12
14:03 kane-xs and that's from a clean pull?
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14:04 kane-xs i broke the config yesterday, but i didn't check that part in.. making a clean pull to check myself
14:06 kane-xs rafl: from a clean pull, all tests pass for me
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14:24 rafl kane-xs: I just pulled and it fails.
14:25 rafl kane-xs: I'll investigate in 30 mins. Smoking and eating break.
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14:44 rafl kane-xs: OK, works now.
14:46 kane-xs did youa ctualyl change anything rafl?
14:47 rafl I removed some stale dirs
14:49 kane-xs hmm... interesting
14:49 rafl kane-xs: We should have a language tag in the MEFA.info.
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14:49 kane-xs the conf.pl actualy tosses out stuff to begin with
14:49 rafl kane-xs: It was a root-* dir.
14:49 kane-xs rafl: those too :)
14:50 rafl No idea.
14:50 kane-xs rafl: sure, we can add that... currently there's no logic that validates them or anything.. it's a TODO for JIB::Meta
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14:52 rafl kane-xs: Would you please do so? I'd like to have the repository grouped by name, author and language, but there's no way to get the language currently. I only rely on META.info stuff.
14:52 kane-xs rafl: just add a language: tag to a meta.info
14:52 kane-xs and there will be a ->language() accessor
14:52 kane-xs it's magic!
14:53 kane-xs there's no validator for those yet or sanity checks
14:53 kane-xs but for your purposes, good enough
14:53 rafl Thank you.
14:58 rafl kane-xs: What's your oppinion about the current JIB::Repo code?
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14:58 kane-xs i haven't been able to look at it proper tbh -- not too many docs/comments and no tests
14:58 kane-xs hard to see what it does
15:00 rafl You're actually right. I'll improve the docs.
15:01 kane-xs oh, and a minor pet peeve -- mind word wrapping on 80 chars? fits nicer on most screens ;)
15:01 kane-xs but judging from the sub names, it creates a repository + index
15:01 kane-xs so that's Good Functionality we definately need
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15:11 rafl I actually like longer lines because most of my screen is empty otherwise. But OK..
15:12 kane-xs most developers use 80 char wide terminals or editors.. it's become a bit of an informal standard
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15:16 rafl Done.
15:16 kane-xs cheers
15:17 rafl Maybe you can improve the recursive sub that generates the list of index files that refer to a given package a bit.
15:18 kane-xs just mark it with a bit XXX and point out what needs improving
15:18 rafl It's actually ugly and not very fast.
15:19 rafl Did you already push the META.info with the language tag?
15:19 kane-xs no... i said you could add it if you felt like it :)
15:19 kane-xs it's just a one line addition, i'm sure you can manage ;)
15:20 rafl But it's kind of stupid. We already have that info in the prefix (p5)
15:21 kane-xs yeah.. i thought of htat.. /but/ p5 and p6 is both perl
15:21 kane-xs anc c_lib, c_header are both c
15:21 kane-xs maybe the unify makes sense.. maybe not
15:22 rafl Do we want to group the archive by p5, p6, c_header, .. or perl, c, java?
15:22 kane-xs good question
15:22 kane-xs i'm not sure
15:22 rafl I'd prefer the former.
15:23 kane-xs then we can skip the language tag
15:23 kane-xs as indeed it's implicit from the prefix
15:23 rafl Good. But how to get it from the meta object without creating a JIB::Package?
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15:27 kane-xs depends.. what are you starting with? a .info? a .jib?
15:29 rafl I have a JIB::Package and call $pkg->meta->$key where key is a keyword given in the config. Currently name and author.
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15:31 kane-xs $pkg->prefix would tell you
15:33 rafl Of course. But I don't want to hard code different keys. (if ($key eq 'language') { ... $pkg->prefix } elsif ($key eq 'name') { .. $pkg->meta->name } ...
15:34 kane-xs sub JIB::Package::language { shift->prefix } ?
15:34 kane-xs and it's not really a 'language'
15:34 kane-xs it's more a 'type'
15:34 rafl Then JIB::Package should also have JIB::Package::$meta { shift->meta->$meta }
15:35 rafl Yes, but it doesn't make a difference if you call it different.
15:35 kane-xs well, if we make indexes by prefix, why not call it prefix?
15:36 kane-xs it's a human understandable token you're looking for, not different functionality
15:36 rafl Prefix is good. But it doesn't solve the problem that some of the keys are properties of $pkg->meta and some or properties of $pkg
15:36 kane-xs meta has the prefix in it i think
15:37 kane-xs or otherwise, we can make it so
15:38 rafl That would be duplicated information.
15:39 rafl But well. that would consistent.
15:39 kane-xs make meta.pm understand ->prefix then
15:39 kane-xs many ways to make it work
15:39 rafl We have authority, version and name. prefix is missing to get the full name.
15:40 kane-xs then let's add prefix
15:40 rafl OK.
15:41 rafl Can you rebuild the .jib in t/src/? I'm a bit to lame to see how JIB::Package::Source works. :-)
15:41 kane-xs hah
15:42 rafl Also we have one jib with .tar.gz files and one with .tgz files. in t/src/
15:42 kane-xs fixing config.pm, but i'll fix it
15:42 rafl One of them is wrong.
15:42 kane-xs yeah, they should both be .tgz
15:42 kane-xs i'll fix that too
15:42 kane-xs just use $pkg->prefix for now and XXX it it
15:42 kane-xs so you can move on and not have to wait for me
15:43 rafl Well, I'll use tar to repack the .jib ;-)
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15:55 rafl OK, the repository stuff works pretty well now.
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16:00 kane-xs rafl: nice
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16:00 kane-xs i'm fixing config.pm to be dynamic so if you change the root, all other dirs change too
16:00 rafl kane-xs: OK
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16:11 kane-xs getting a lot of svk conflicts on this pussh
16:11 * frodo72 is back (gone 04:48:08)
16:11 kane-xs weeeird
16:12 kane-xs it's grabbing totally wrong versions ;(
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16:14 kane-xs hmm, will have to tackle this tomorrow
16:16 hexmode helo?
16:16 hexmode oops, wrong chan
16:18 * frodo72 is away: I'll be back...
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18:38 r0nny hoi
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21:25 dduncan seen svnbot
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21:36 fglock svnbot is down - so I'll write this myself :)
21:36 fglock misc/Parser-Mini/pil2_json_emit_p6.p6 - Perl 6 code emitter
21:37 fglock compiles ' say "hello" ' into '(&say("hello"));'
21:37 fglock with a few modifications, it could be used to transform p6->forth
21:38 Khisanth heh
21:38 Khisanth bring it back up?
21:38 fglock I was actually trying to emit Parrot, but p6 is easier to start with
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23:17 xinming ?eval  role A { method t ( *@a ) { @a }}; class B does A; class C does A { has B $.b; method BUILD { $.b = B.new; $.b.t( 'haha','hehe','xixi');}} C.new
23:17 evalbot_8098 is now known as evalbot_8118
23:17 evalbot_8118 Error: No such method: "&t"
23:17 xinming bug?
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23:52 autrijus yes, fixing.
23:53 xinming autrijus: :-)
23:54 xinming autrijus: fixing will introduce new bugs. :-P
23:54 obra heh
23:55 autrijus xinming: no... they are a leftover of yesterday's fix
23:55 autrijus ingy_: ping
23:55 autrijus obra: sanity check this plan
23:55 autrijus instead of Perl6::Bible
23:55 autrijus have P6Doc::Spec::03_Operators
23:56 autrijus P6Doc::Spec::12_Objects
23:56 autrijus and again, P6Doc::Design, P6Doc::Tutorial, etc.
23:56 autrijus use sensible section names instead of numbers
23:56 autrijus and Spec instead of Synopses
23:56 obra would Spec:: contain Syn,Apo and Sum?
23:56 autrijus and move over relevant bits from A* and E*
23:57 autrijus and ditch them altogether
23:57 autrijus as they are really confusing to start reading
23:57 obra Hm. I'd probably still ship the normative docs as separate items
23:57 autrijus lots of untruths annotated with corrections in parens
23:57 xinming autrijus: how about the default behaviour of ("s1","s2","s3") turn into a string?
23:57 xinming ?eval ("s1","s2","s3").say
23:57 evalbot_8118 is now known as evalbot_8119
23:57 evalbot_8119 OUTPUT[s1s2s3 ] bool::true
23:58 autrijus what's wrong with that?
23:58 autrijus oh wait, that's wrong
23:58 autrijus it should say "s1 s2 s3"
23:58 xinming autrijus: hmm, No, autrijus
23:58 xinming I think This is right
23:58 obra I'd probably go with Perl6::Doc::{Design,Tutorials,Operators,Concurrency} and Perl6::Spec::....
23:58 xinming otherwise, for slurp the input handle,
23:58 obra and stick the crazy stuff from @larry in ::Spec::
23:59 xinming It will add an extra space before each line except the firstline.
23:59 xinming autrijus: It's "s1 s2 s3" yesterday. so I think It is a bug
23:59 autrijus obra: Perl6::Doc is okay but Perl6:: on CPAN is sorta limited to things that emulate p6 programatically
23:59 autrijus obra: and you think it's okay to ditch section numbering also? I thought they imply reading sequence

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