Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2005-12-09

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 autrijus xinming: huh? it was always like that in pugs
00:00 autrijus ?eval (1,2,3).say
00:00 evalbot_8119 OUTPUT[123 ] bool::true
00:00 autrijus ?eval [1,2,3].say
00:00 evalbot_8119 OUTPUT[123 ] bool::true
00:00 autrijus wait... it is "1 2 3" on my terminal
00:00 obra autrijus: different sequences make sense for different people
00:00 autrijus something's not right
00:01 obra perldoc Perl6::Doc should suggest sequences
00:01 autrijus xinming: I'll look into it in a minute.
00:01 autrijus obra: okay, that works for me... so you think Perl6::Doc is better than P6Doc:: ?
00:01 obra P6Doc is obscure.
00:01 xinming autrijus: make a file to test. :-)
00:01 autrijus Perl6::Spec::Operators # what about this?
00:01 xinming xinming@HomePc:~/tmp$ cat asdf.p6
00:01 xinming #!/usr/bin/pugs
00:01 xinming my $a = ~list( =$*IN );
00:01 xinming print $a;
00:01 autrijus xinming: how about you do that and I'll use the test :)
00:02 xinming :-)
00:02 obra autrijus: what would be in ::Operators? for numbered docs (like the existing specs), I sort of like the numbers...but they make them harder to find
00:02 xinming and run that file, You will get what It shouldn't be. :-P
00:02 obra of course, if the specs ARE hard to understand, making them harder to get at than the ::Doc is a win
00:03 autrijus obra: I'm more oriented in moving AES into a single Spec
00:03 autrijus because it's very hard to chase AE as they are
00:04 obra are you going to try to get @larry to bless it as normative?
00:04 autrijus I'm probably only going to rename Perl6::Bible at this moment
00:04 * obra wants to understand intent
00:04 autrijus the intent is to make python people who want to learn about perl 6 actually able to start learning it with minimum distraction.
00:05 obra the equivalent docs in perl5 are perldoc perl*?
00:05 autrijus the immediate thing is to make irrelevant documents out of the way, and name the relevant documents sensibly (i.e. by name)
00:05 autrijus yes. perl*is divided into: Overview, Tutorial, Reference, Internals, Platform
00:05 autrijus and FAQ
00:06 autrijus and I think the Reference part sorta matches Synopses
00:06 obra ok. then yeah. I'd rename Perl6::Bible as Perl6::Spec
00:06 autrijus and ::Spec is maybe better than ::Reference (more normative sounding)
00:06 xinming autrijus: hmm, did you try that?
00:06 obra and then start cannibalizing content from them into Perl6::Doc::{O,T,R,I,P}
00:07 autrijus xinming: yes, it joins the list with spaces for me
00:07 xinming autrijus: So, I don't think this should be happen
00:08 autrijus xinming: what do you think should happen?
00:08 xinming though, list( ... ).as("%s", '') will resolve the problem, But for default behaviour. It shouldn't add extra space.
00:08 autrijus it's not unlike the p5:
00:08 autrijus $a = "@{[<STDIN>]}";
00:08 autrijus print $a;
00:09 xinming don't add space, what it slurped, should be printed as the same as what It get.
00:09 autrijus S02: In string contexts container references automatically dereference to appropri?
00:09 autrijus ate (white?space separated) string values.
00:10 autrijus xinming: but you can do
00:10 autrijus @a = list(...);
00:10 autrijus say @a
00:10 autrijus which won't add spaces
00:11 xinming autrijus: hmm, In fact, this is what fglock asked yesterday, "how to slurp stdin",
00:11 xinming autrijus: I think it's not a bug now. :-/
00:12 autrijus xinming: you do it like
00:12 autrijus my $a = $*IN.slurp;
00:12 autrijus or slurp($*IN)
00:13 xinming autrijus: hmm, I tried this, but It will print each line after you press enter
00:13 xinming instead of slurp.
00:14 autrijus xinming: yeah because slurp is lazy...
00:15 autrijus xinming: what's wrong with that though :)
00:15 xinming for $a, you won't slurpy all the input.
00:16 autrijus but it's slurping all the input...
00:16 autrijus just not all at once
00:16 xinming hmm, what I mean is, It will slurp oneline, and process it, then slurp another line,
00:17 autrijus yes
00:17 autrijus but try this
00:17 autrijus my $a = $*IN.slurp;
00:17 autrijus say substr($a, 0, -1);
00:21 xinming what does -1 mean here? :-/
00:21 autrijus never mind...
00:21 autrijus it means (end of string)
00:21 autrijus so try
00:21 autrijus my $a = substr($*IN.slurp, 0);
00:22 autrijus which forces evaluation until end of slurp
00:22 autrijus there should be better ways to do this.
00:22 xinming maybe a force... :-)
00:22 autrijus nod
00:22 autrijus or make slurp strict by default. I'm not sure.
00:22 autrijus it's p6l domain :)
00:26 xinming my $a = {$*IN.slurp};
00:26 xinming print $a();
00:26 xinming :-P
00:26 * xinming don't wish the () here.
00:28 autrijus *nod* and it's bogus anyway... once we get lazy arrays it will also be lazy
00:28 autrijus so the real problem is .slurp's laziness.
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00:31 Khisanth lazy slurp? isn't that contradictory?
00:35 xinming autrijus: doesn't pugs implemented the ** operator?
00:35 xinming You have to use unary ** to get a non-lazy flattening list context (that is, to flatten immediately like Perl 5).
00:35 xinming from S02
00:35 xinming if so, then, I think we can use **$*IN.slurp
00:41 autrijus ok
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00:44 autrijus impliementing it
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01:01 autrijus asavige: hi!
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01:03 asavige hi autrijus! just got the coke in a brown bottle from supermarket as specified in VICTUALS
01:03 asavige but what do you eat for breakfast?
01:04 autrijus carbonhydates and protein
01:05 autrijus with some water
01:05 autrijus (i.e. anything goes)
01:05 autrijus bread is fine, cereal is fine... :)
01:06 clkao autrijus
01:06 asavige ok, thanks, no need to buy fruit loops or anything. might get some quiona in honour of Schwern (never tried it myself)
01:06 autrijus k.
01:06 obra Coke in a brown bottle?
01:06 autrijus obra: caffeine free coke
01:06 clkao i've got piljs's runjs.pl using perl5-capable js
01:07 asavige here in australia the diet caffeine free coke (as specified in VICTUALS) comes in a brown bottle
01:07 autrijus asavige: also, just recently (during OSDC) I came out under the new real-world name Audrey (autrijus is still around as a net handle), and I'd prefer female pronouns if that's okay with you :)
01:07 asavige no worries mate
01:07 clkao now i can implmeent preludes for io-ish stuff using perl5 for js backend
01:07 autrijus cool :)
01:08 autrijus clkao: yay, that will give iblech some more tests to pass
01:08 clkao r:D
01:08 clkao tell me i am insane
01:08 autrijus clkao: you are insane
01:08 autrijus xinming: **... is implemented. committing
01:08 clkao XD
01:08 autrijus my $a = **($*IN.slurp);
01:08 autrijus print $a;
01:08 autrijus this now works
01:09 clkao ??
01:09 clkao what's ** doing?
01:09 autrijus clkao: force deep sequential eager evaluation
01:09 autrijus deepSeq in haskell
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01:17 autrijus it's in as r8695
01:17 autrijus I'm going to revive svnbot6 in a sec
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01:34 xinming autrijus: :-) Sorry, I was out for breakfast.
01:35 xinming autrijus: how about the $?CLASS bug? :-P does it have to be fixed after the meta-model finished?
01:36 autrijus xinming: it will be automagically fixed with objspace, which I'm working on at this moment
01:38 xinming bbl
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02:20 meppl gute nacht
02:21 xinming has joined #perl6
02:21 autrijus gute nacht, meppl :)
02:22 autrijus xinming: so my Chinese name is now finally public information :)
02:23 xinming autrijus: :-/ Sorry, I still don't know.
02:25 svnbot6 r8122 | autrijus++ | * Update the AUTHORS file by running util/fixauthors.pl.
02:27 autrijus xinming: it's in the AUTHORS files... also http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%94%90%E9%B3%B3
02:28 * autrijus goes back to objspace
02:28 PJF Strange.  Compiling Pugs.Parser croaks with a q{GHC's heap exhausted...} error, but when I remake it handles it fine.  Does GHC do something special like dynamically allocate heap based upon memory size?
02:29 autrijus PJF: yes I think
02:29 autrijus I sometimes needed incremental build  too
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02:30 PJF Everything seems to be running smoothly so far.  The only changes I've had to do is patch ExtUtils::MM_Cygwin, manually run 'setup configure', and restart make after an out-of-heap error.
02:30 svnbot6 r8123 | autrijus++ | * s/Autrijus Tang/Audrey Tang/g in all places that may have legal
02:30 svnbot6 r8123 | autrijus++ |   meanings (copyrights, author names, etc.)
02:31 meppl ;)
02:31 autrijus wait... Imention "patch" ;)
02:31 autrijus s/I//
02:31 autrijus what's the patch about?
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02:31 PJF https://rt.cpan.org/NoAuth/Bug.html?id=16375
02:31 PJF MM_Cygwin doesn't seem to think that anything in /cygdrive/* is executable.  So maybe_command fails to identify my ghc.
02:32 * autrijus looks at the paatch
02:32 PJF It's not a patch to pugs, but it does allow it to install on my cygwin laptop, which has GHC installed in 'c:/ghc/..'
02:33 PJF Or /cygdrive/c/ghc/... from Cygwin space.
02:34 xinming autrijus: wikipedia is banned here. :-/
02:35 hcchien ......
02:35 xinming Most people knows this in China,
02:36 xinming autrijus: but I wish to know, if that character is 凤 in Simplified Chinese.
02:37 Alias_ has joined #perl6
02:37 autrijus Alias: http://svn.openfoundry.org/pugs/docs/AES/S22draft.pod
02:37 Alias_ ta
02:37 autrijus xinming: yes it is
02:38 autrijus PJF: I promoted it to a patch to pugs anyway
02:40 autrijus PJF: welcome to AUTHORS file -- a commit bit is on your way
02:40 * PJF laughs!
02:40 PJF Thanks Audrey. ;)  Clearly my mumble at OSDc wasn't enough to dodge the commit bit. ;)
02:40 autrijus actually, why not commit yourself to the AUTHORS file
02:41 PJF I will once I've got a real patch.  Pugs is giving me some silly error about not being able to find Test.pm.  I'm investigating why.
02:42 autrijus okay then
02:45 svnbot6 r8124 | autrijus++ | * add PJF to AUTHORS file for the cygwin patch.
02:46 PJF Hey, that's not letting me add myself. ;)
02:48 Alias_ Then remove the J before you become known as an initialled person
02:48 autrijus the jfdi policy mandates that if something needs to be done and some other committer is delaying, other people just go ahead :)
02:49 Alias_ The brian_d_foy problem
02:50 PJF I believe that brian_d_foy quite likes his name that way, provided you use the right font.
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03:00 Alias_ Nope
03:00 Alias_ He's decided it was folly, and now wishing to be only known as Brian Foy
03:00 Alias_ Mainly because people were continuing having thinkos of "de Foy"
03:00 Alias_ i.e. a french-like version
03:01 * PJF laughs.
03:01 PJF Well, I don't mind PJF.  I've been enjoying it for about twelve years now.
03:02 * PJF discovers that pugs doesn't like cygwin absolute paths, quite probably because his ghc lives in windows land.
03:05 autrijus aye.
03:06 svnbot6 r8125 | autrijus++ | * refresh M::I to 0.40
03:06 autrijus I think it boils down to that need cygpath support
03:06 PJF I'm currently looking at PugsConfig::add_path to try and kludge something in to run the tests.  Is there a better place I should be looking?
03:07 autrijus no I think it's the right place
03:07 autrijus for some value of right place
03:08 PJF Thanks!
03:08 PJF (AFK a bit)
03:08 autrijus thank _you_ :)
03:09 svnbot6 r8126 | autrijus++ | * bring more stuff forward from M::I 0.40.
03:09 autrijus anyone running native win32 here?
03:09 autrijus (non cygwin)
03:11 autrijus would be cool to test the last few changes re Makefile.PL
03:11 autrijus (should still all work)
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03:13 Alias_ PJF: I meant more Paul J Fenwick :)
03:13 diotalevi_ has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
03:13 Alias_ autrijus: Silly, I'm 4 feet away and running native Win32
03:13 Alias_ of course, I write this knowing he's just left the room :/
03:16 PJF I'm back, Adam W.D. Kennedy.
03:18 autrijus lol
03:18 * autrijus goes to lunch w/ Alias &
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04:24 * PJF discovers that OSSF doesn't seem to remember project invites if the invitee decides to use a different address to register.
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04:32 ingy_ autrijus: hola
04:36 ingy_ is now known as ingy
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05:43 autrijus ingy: still there?
05:43 autrijus PJF: right. you have another account now?
05:44 PJF Welcome back, Audrey A. Tang.  I registered [email@hidden.address] not [email@hidden.address]
05:44 PJF The username is still 'pjf', but it doesn't recognise the invite because I used a different e-mail address.
05:44 PJF But I now have tests under cygwin running happily.  Working on getting the smoke kit installed.
05:45 PJF I hope Adam W. D. Kennedy provided you with a nice lunch.
05:45 ingy autrijus: yo
05:46 autrijus ingy: so I have this idea that makes Perl6::Spec::Operators instead of Perl6::Bible::S03 happen
05:47 autrijus ingy: do you think it's sane(ish)? and if yes, are you willing to hack on it, or mark me as comaintainer of Perl6::Bible so I can refactor the things away, and let me know where the repo for that is? or should we just move the spec fetcher into pugs/docs/? (which may be better)?
05:55 xah autrijus: are there many hackers in taiwan?
05:57 autrijus xah: plenty of, I think
05:58 xah i went back to taiwan for 6 months in 2003...
05:58 xah didn't have much opportunity to meet any...
05:58 xah and apparently didn't come across them in my US IT industry life
05:59 xah them -> programers of Taiwan
05:59 xah in fact, you are the only one i know.
05:59 xah and a celebrity too.
06:00 autrijus xah: well... there's plenty of them in IRCNet
06:00 autrijus #bsdchat, #dot, #perl.tw, etc etc
06:00 xah mmm...
06:01 xah would that be ircnet.org?
06:01 autrijus irc.seed.net.tw if you are in taiwan
06:01 autrijus irc.xs4all.nl in .eu
06:01 autrijus not sure about other places
06:02 PJF Do we have many cygwin pugs hackers?  I'm happy to tweak the build process to improve cygwin support, but if we have anyone else who's been working on that I'd like to coordinate efforts.
06:02 autrijus PJF: welcome aboard :)
06:02 autrijus PJF: no, I think cygwin was never fully working.
06:02 autrijus (you should be able to commit now)
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06:04 PJF Oh good (regarding both cygwin and commits).  All the problems I've hit so far with cygwin have been dealing with cygwin paths vs windows paths.
06:04 autrijus I reckon it'd be the case.
06:05 PJF It's not hard to win32ify the paths for pugs under cygwin, which is quick and ugly, but seems to be working.  In theory I'd expect it all to work with a cygwin-native build of Haskell, which I haven't looked for yet.
06:09 autrijus not sure there is one.
06:09 svnbot6 r8127 | pjf++ | Pugs doesn't yet deal nicely with absolute paths under cygwin.  This
06:09 svnbot6 r8127 | pjf++ | kludge allows the test suite to run by also providing win32ified paths
06:09 svnbot6 r8127 | pjf++ | under cygwin.
06:09 svnbot6 r8127 | pjf++ | This does not fix general cygwin pathing issues. It only helps the
06:09 svnbot6 r8127 | pjf++ | test suite.
06:09 autrijus ooh, a Real Commit
06:10 obra heh
06:10 obra pjf++ # More/Eaiser testing is always a win
06:11 PJF Thanks obra.  I've still got a few tweaks to make before the smoke framework runs happily.
06:11 svnbot6 r8128 | pjf++ | Corrected speeling of 'PJF'.
06:11 obra PJF, sorry ;)
06:11 Alias_ W. D. Kennedy?
06:11 Alias_ Like WD40?
06:11 PJF Currently we still require 'setup' to be run manually during the build process under cygwin.  That shouldn't be hard to correct.
06:11 PJF W.D. as in "World Domination"
06:12 Alias_ ah
06:13 Alias_ I prefer just D for Danger
06:13 Alias_ Especially when registering for conferences
06:13 dduncan well, openfoundry is back online ... if anyone noticed it was down a half-hour ago
06:14 autrijus it was, I restarted apache
06:14 dduncan that's a little different ... as I recall you used to have to wait for someone else to fix that server
06:16 autrijus well, the machine wasn't down, that helped :)
06:16 autrijus I can't physically reboot the machine from abroad
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06:22 dduncan autrijus, why change your name? ... or is there an explanation posted somewhere?
06:22 autrijus dduncan: nah... I'll journal about it sometime somewhere, probably.
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06:23 autrijus dduncan: in short, my gender role did not match my self image (and how my brain was wired since birth) for a very long time; I couldn't go on living like this so had to make the change.
06:23 dduncan so the old name didn't describe you then
06:24 autrijus the english one is sorta okay. the Chinese one totally doesn't work.
06:24 svnbot6 r8129 | pjf++ | Under Cygwin with a Win32-native GHC we find ourselves with a 'setup' that
06:24 svnbot6 r8129 | pjf++ | doesn't understand cygwin-flavoured paths.  This patch turns '/cygdrive/x/'
06:24 svnbot6 r8129 | pjf++ | style paths into 'x:/' paths on cygwin systems, causing setup to run cleanly
06:24 svnbot6 r8129 | pjf++ | under cygwin.
06:25 dduncan okay
06:26 * PJF goes AFK while he runs 'make smoke'.  Happy hacking.
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06:28 wolverian for some reason, Audrey reminds me of The Neverending Story.
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06:29 autrijus wolverian: good, because it's the origin of the "autrijus" name too :)
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06:31 wolverian autrijus, yeah, maybe I'm thinking of that, really, not Audrey. but the Childlike Empress was played by Audrey Gardiner..
06:31 dduncan do you plan to update your account names with cpan and perl.org etc as well, and IRC handles, etc?
06:31 dduncan if the former are possible
06:32 autrijus dduncan: no... I'm fine with the net handle "autrijus"
06:32 autrijus half of the people in AUTHORS has net handles that bears no relationship with their passport name
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06:32 * obra waves
06:32 autrijus yeah, like this obra here
06:32 * obra doesn't really ever use 'obra' off IRC
06:33 obra Except with a set of friends who know me primarily from online
06:33 autrijus and that's how I plan to use 'autrijus'
06:33 dduncan sounds good to me
06:35 xah i think online handles are a plague
06:36 ingy autrijus: let's discuss when we meet next. the repo is http://svn.kwiki.org/ingy/Perl6-Bible/ iirc
06:36 ingy I can give you update access
06:37 obra xah: why?
06:37 xah no offense, but they are vestiges of childish behavior
06:37 xah think of teens and script kiddies
06:37 ingy autrijus: access granted (to all my code)
06:37 obra xah: I disagree
06:38 obra a handle is a persona.
06:38 obra They don't have to be childish personas
06:38 autrijus ingy: cool
06:38 * Alias_ waves as well
06:38 obra Also, they tend to more uniquely identify individuals
06:38 Alias_ except in my case... :)
06:38 obra There are other Jesse's involved in perl.
06:38 obra But no other obra ;)
06:38 ingy autrijus: hsinchu is lovely today. wish you were here :p
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06:39 PJF *click*  Oh!  Hi Jesse!
06:39 GeJ morgen
06:39 * Alias_ thinks about other curtises
06:39 obra Also, there are some cases, like "autrijus" and "clkao" where a handle is shared by a team of 20 or 30 hackers
06:39 obra Hi PJF. Do I know you?
06:39 autrijus not "team"
06:39 autrijus the term is "consortium"
06:39 obra apologies
06:39 obra was typing too fast ;)
06:39 autrijus like the "unicode" handle which is also shared by a consortium
06:39 Khisanth there are 20 or 30 autrijuses hoping around the world?
06:40 xah online handles are a side-effect of tech-geeking
06:40 Khisanth (that would explain a lot actually)
06:40 autrijus Khisanth: it's an old joke, on the same vein as Mark Jason-Dominus is actually an infinite amount of monkeys who also keep octopus as pets.
06:40 PJF obra: Only in passing, and through other people.  I'm that crazy guy who runs Perl Training Australia.
06:40 obra PJF: ah. Hi :)
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06:41 xah few simple indicators:
06:41 xah * the younger they are, the more wild is their handle
06:41 xah * the more tech geeker they are, the more arcane is their handle
06:41 PJF obra: We know each other primarily through Skud and Robert Spier.
06:41 obra Ahh. Ok :)
06:42 xah * the more renowned, reputable, professional aperson is, the less his assumes a handle
06:42 xah * the more sincere a person is, the less he'll use a handle
06:42 autrijus xah: on the other hand... people didn't choose their name either.
06:42 xah that's some general, worldly, all encompasing, indicators.
06:42 obra xah: I respectfully disagree
06:43 Khisanth autrijus: only till we figure out this time travel business!
06:43 PJF Xah: So an old, sincere, tech-savvy person should change their name?  ;)
06:43 PJF I've always wanted to be known as "Bogomip Fenwick".
06:43 GeJ I never met the guy, but chromatic doesn't seem to match all the criterias
06:43 xah autrijus: not clear about your point.
06:43 obra GeJ: 'chromatic' isn't a handle ;)
06:43 xah as for name change, yes. If people wanted to change their name, many do, and actually do so legally.
06:44 GeJ obra:  would you care to elaborate? is it his _real_ name?
06:44 GeJ ;)
06:44 obra It's what he goes by pretty much universally. It appears on his book
06:45 Khisanth now would be a good time to quote Shakespeare :)
06:47 autrijus xah: the point is that for some people (like me) who started using computer at 8 and internet at 12, we can't really change our realworld name
06:47 autrijus but yet we didn't choose it ourselves
06:47 autrijus so something that aligns more with my self image is actually a form of sincerity
06:47 * obra coughs at audrey
06:48 obra "CAn't really change our realworld name"
06:48 autrijus obra: at age 12?
06:48 xah autrijus: that may be so. But look at the world, history, perspectives.
06:48 obra Oh. parsefail.
06:48 autrijus obra: so my point is that people usually do when they got the chance, but there are circumstances where it may not be feasible for some time.
06:49 * obra nods
06:49 xah autrijus: that's right. The point i'm making about online handles is that, it is special affinity to tech geeking.
06:49 obra xah: it's also common with artists
06:49 xah for instance, there's are pennames, pseudonyms etc.,
06:49 obra and musicians
06:50 xah each are used for a purpose. But,
06:50 obra DJs
06:50 xah they are different than online handles.,
06:50 obra howso?
06:50 dduncan xah, personally I find handles do lead to more things one has to remember, so I just use my real name or abbreviation thereof online ... never invented a handle
06:50 dduncan never plan to
06:51 xah dduncan: good point.
06:51 xah dduncan: and a point for my point. :)
06:52 obra xah: What's your real name?
06:52 xah heh. Xah. :D
06:52 dduncan I'll also say ... both ways ... I know for a fact that people of all ages use handles, but they seem more common the younger someone is
06:52 dduncan I thought that
06:53 dduncan also, the use of handles I find more common in the groups I talk to about fiction, eg X-Men, whereas programming forums there is a much greater fraction that use real names and eschew handles ...
06:53 xah dduncan: exactly.
06:53 dduncan I consider it more "professional" to use your real name
06:54 dduncan I also consider it more professional to have your own domain name, rather than having your email at geocities or hotmail etc
06:54 * autrijus seriously ponders /nick audrey
06:54 * autrijus goes back hacking objspace
06:54 xah not that online handles are intrinsically bad, or indicate some bad about it's user, it's just that by the nature of things it's things tech geekers or teens would do.
06:54 dduncan and I practice what I preach
06:55 dduncan yes, they're not a bad thing, but you will look more professional ... to the general public anyway ... using real names
06:56 xah it's like dress code, a person's mannerism, his diction... gives an indicate of what the person is or is like. Online handles is just a indicator of the million.
06:56 dduncan that's more the case if people looking at you are strangers ... it matters less if they know you
06:56 xah yes.
06:56 xah online handles can give a hint of geekdom, for instance,
06:57 dduncan for example, around here I know you guys enough to know you are pros, so having nicks doesn't speak unprofessional to me
06:57 xah and if it some batman or vampire, then you know its author is perhaps young, or in a jesting mood.
06:57 dduncan that's a good point ...
06:57 xah and of course there are exception geeks who stick with fancy handles.
06:57 dduncan *what* people use for nicks says a lot about them
06:57 xah exception -> exceptional.
06:58 dduncan you can identify young children easily by nicks based on stories that mainly pre-teens would like
06:58 obra Like the neverending story?
06:58 xah hey, we make a rap duo.
06:58 * obra ducks
06:58 xah :)
06:58 autrijus obra: not sure it's a preteen book :)
06:59 autrijus a preteen movie perhaps.
06:59 obra Fair enough
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06:59 * obra admits to not having read the book, just seen the movie
06:59 autrijus fglock++ # speccing corner cases meticulously in docs/notes/laziness.txt
07:00 dduncan what I mean is ...
07:00 dduncan you can identify young children as they use CURRENT FADS as nicks
07:00 dduncan and fads change every few years
07:00 xah ninja turtle!
07:01 dduncan exactly ... but that's a decade out of date
07:01 dduncan plus
07:01 dduncan 15 years ago
07:01 dduncan now its like pokemon and such
07:01 xah umm.. pokemon!
07:01 PJF is now known as UberChu
07:02 dduncan or in an X-Men fan group, the younger ones are more likely to be limited to a few fad-hyped characters like Wolvie
07:02 wolverian I would like to state at this point that my nick has nothing to do with x-men :)
07:02 dduncan older people would probably use chars that have been around for awhile and aren't the most hyped ... and there are a thousand to choose from
07:02 dduncan actually, I wasn't thinking of you
07:03 dduncan about half of the lists I'm on are X-Men related, and the other half Perl related
07:03 autrijus wolverian: I didn't make the link before you made the connectino to wolverine :)
07:03 UberChu is now known as WolverChu
07:03 GeJ So you're telling me that leo@#parrot used to run in the streets with a blue mask when he was a boy? naaah. I don't buy it
07:03 wolverian agh! stupid me :)
07:03 autrijus GeJ: Leo is actually named Leo.
07:03 autrijus (sort for Leopold)
07:05 GeJ I knew... I just had to say to something. It was either some stupid/fun comment or "Does anyone live in Virginia and is skilled enough tou build an explosive device cause I could use some help..."
07:05 GeJ :)
07:05 dduncan fyi, if you want a sampling of X-Men fan nicknames, look no further than: http://xday.info/archives/xday2003/default.pl/view_prtcp
07:06 dduncan some are real names (including mine), some not
07:06 GeJ if you ever consider changing your job. DO NOT EVER go to work for a company that registers domains.
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07:06 GeJ worst... job... ever...
07:06 WolverChu is now known as PJF
07:06 * PJF wonders if ext/FA-DFA/t/DFA.t is supposed to take a very very long time.
07:07 dduncan fyi, getting the coding done for xday2004 is the main thing competing with my time to work on Rosetta et al
07:07 dduncan yes, I'm that far behind
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07:09 dduncan oh, one more X-Men related thing ...
07:10 dduncan http://darren duncan. net / xmen 3 funeral. jpg
07:10 dduncan remove the spaces, then go there (spaces added so google doesn't index it from irc archives)
07:11 dduncan I may have mentioned on IRC that I got a bit part; well I'm in that scene
07:12 dduncan those of you who saw me at OSCON may be able to pick me out ... for the rest, I'll defer adding an arrow until the movie comes out, to be on the safe side
07:12 dduncan one hint: left side
07:13 dduncan that clip came from the trailer, released 2 days ago
07:13 GeJ Ha! gotcha! the guy with the blue face? ;)
07:13 * GeJ ducks
07:13 dduncan no, that's the Kelsey Grammar guy
07:14 dduncan I'm in the second row; all the main cast are in the first row, or standing
07:14 dduncan or should I say 'a' second row
07:15 dduncan anyway, that was just a fun little thing to do ... my career aspirations are entirely in the computer field
07:16 Alias_ second row on the left, 4 people in?
07:18 dduncan if you must know, in the left most group, second row, closest to the isle shared by the second left most group
07:18 dduncan I'm 27
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07:18 dduncan soon to be 28
07:19 Alias_ next to the lady sitting down right?
07:20 Alias_ Thought so
07:20 Alias_ (only one with glasses I could spot actually)
07:20 dduncan Alias_, yes
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07:21 dduncan so then, I guess that for those of you that haven't met me, you know a bit of what I look like
07:26 Aankhen`` LMAO... http://go.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=oddlyEnoughNews&amp;storyID=10528873&amp;src=rss/oddlyEnoughNews
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07:50 PJF Compiling Pugs.Parser      ( src/Pugs/Parser.hs, dist\build\src/Pugs/Parser.o )
07:50 PJF GHC's heap exhausted: current limit is 268435456 bytes;
07:50 PJF Use the `-M<size>' option to increase the total heap size.
07:50 PJF Build failed: 64256 at util/build_pugs.pl line 87.
07:50 PJF Should I be passing -M to ghc when it compiles setup, or does setup understand the -M switch?
07:50 PJF I'm suspecting the former.
07:50 autrijus line 32 config.yml
07:51 PJF Oh!  That's very easy, thank-you.
07:51 autrijus were you using unoptimized?
07:51 autrijus no prob... but we should intelligiently incrementally rebuild and/or extend heap size
07:51 autrijus ("make unoptimized" that is)
07:51 PJF Nope.  Just a plain "make smoke"
07:52 PJF However I expect that we want smoke to run happily without the user having to change any options.  Am I correct in that expectation?
07:53 autrijus yes.
07:53 autrijus definitely
07:53 autrijus and so far only win32 ha
07:53 autrijus s the heap flow problem
07:54 PJF So we may want to conditionally increase heap memory based upon us having a win32 ghc?
07:55 PJF I have noticed that restarting setup (without increasing heap size) causes it to complete the process.  So it looks like it's not completely releasing the heap in between each file compilation.  It certainly compiles a lot of files before getting to Parser.hs
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08:01 PJF Changing the heap size for Win32/Cygwin looks very easy, and it can still be overridden using the configuration file.   Audrey, are you happy for me to increase the default heap for building pugs under Win32/Cygwin?
08:02 autrijus sure.
08:03 autrijus I think heap problems are getting better for ghc 6.4.2
08:03 autrijus but for the time being, adjust it as neccessary for 6.4.1
08:03 autrijus (as 6.4.2 is still some time away)
08:03 PJF Okay!
08:04 autrijus PJF++
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08:13 svnbot6 r8130 | pjf++ | Win32/CygWin GHC is a memory hog.  This change gives it a memory sty.
08:13 svnbot6 r8130 | pjf++ | config.yml continues to be respected if ghc_heap_size is set.
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08:22 svnbot6 r8131 | pjf++ | Fixed Win32 GHC memory adjustment commited in 8130
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08:40 gaal hello!
08:42 autrijus greetings gaal!
08:43 Alias_ Hail Baal!
08:43 Alias_ oh wait...
08:43 gaal hoezzit?
08:43 gaal s/e/w/; mwahaha();
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08:43 autrijus gaal: excellent weather and getting lotsa things done
08:44 gaal great!
08:44 gaal when'd be a good time to revisit prag stuff?
08:44 autrijus Alias_: no chance of us getting net access tonight in $home?
08:44 mjl69 has quit IRC ()
08:45 autrijus (also, I thought we should be heading home for christmas tree and stuff)
08:45 Alias_ erm...
08:45 Alias_ You went out today and bought a switch during business hours right?
08:45 Alias_ WRONG!
08:45 Alias_ </chewbacca>
08:45 autrijus aw.
08:45 autrijus gaal: so, tomorrow morning.
08:45 Alias_ I mean, you have net access on THAT computer
08:45 Alias_ Which has X-Chat I imagine
08:45 * Alias_ chuckles
08:45 autrijus eh...
08:46 Alias_ So the english channels you can have
08:46 autrijus Alias_: do we have an extra realtek network card?
08:46 autrijus random PCI ethernet card
08:46 Alias_ We aren't changing the hardware of my parent's computer :)
08:46 autrijus well, we are already typing away on IRC when we are at arm's length from each other
08:46 Alias_ But then security won't care about us until 2am
08:46 Alias_ I figured you wanted others to evesdrop
08:46 gaal autrijus: great
08:47 autrijus no... it's just my interpersonal skills needs work
08:47 Alias_ ah
08:47 autrijus gaal: anyway, so 15 hours from now
08:48 gaal that's a little early on my timezone, will you be free a little later that day?
08:50 gaal by this rate, it might be ready for yapc :-
08:51 gaal {/)(}
08:51 autrijus sure, I'll be around for ~10hrs from that on
08:51 gaal okay :)
08:52 PJF Gaal, you with with Alias, I take it?
08:52 autrijus I'm so happy to be back to regularly-scheduled hacking :)
08:52 PJF s/with/work with/;
08:52 Alias_ no
08:53 Alias_ If he did, he wouldn't need to be scheduling with autrijus in IRC :)
08:53 PJF Sorry misparsed.  I shouldn't try multitasking so much.
08:53 PJF I dunno.  Audrey and yourself seem to be doing a lot of communication via IRC. ;)
08:54 Alias_ Only for your benefit
08:54 PJF Mind you, I do exactly the same with jarich.  I've usually got noise-reduction headphones and thumping techno on.
08:54 * Alias_ finally parses the meaning from "jarich"
08:54 Alias_ eep
08:55 PJF Sorry.  Jarich = jacinta_a_richardson.  It's french.
08:55 PJF Like Brian de'Foy. ;)
08:55 Alias_ You listen to techno...
08:56 Alias_ I really should have transfered the 30gig of it I had on my laptop while I was at your house
08:56 Alias_ oh well...
08:57 PJF Mind you, I'm much too lazy to actually pick songs myself.  I usually listen to di.fm.
08:57 Alias_ Ditto, but with a disk dump on :)
09:00 PJF Goodness me!  The RIAA may not appreciate that.  Perhaps we'll need to give you a pirate name, like PeuceBeard.
09:00 PJF Although wikipedia tells me that Puece is an island located near the Danube river, so obviously my spelling is poor today.
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09:05 autrijus bbiab... will be back after dinner (I think)
09:05 gaal PJF: oops, sorry, missed you. Nope, I'm in .il.
09:05 PJF What's our recommended way of altering tests that seem to tickle endless loops in bugs?
09:05 PJF I've found that FA-DFA/t/DFA.t appears to churn on 100% cpu after the first test.
09:06 PJF I want to get this smoke report finished.  I guess I can tweak it locally to a SKIP...
09:06 gaal ideally fix the harness to portably catch that from without :-)
09:06 gaal but yeah - skip is what we do today.
09:07 PJF So use Acme::HaltingProblem to determine if the code supplied will halt, and then skip it if we know that it doesn't?
09:07 gaal heh, no, use some kind of timer or OS limit
09:07 gaal demo of the idea:
09:07 gaal ?eval 1..
09:07 evalbot_8119 is now known as evalbot_8131
09:07 evalbot_8131 Error:  unexpected end of input expecting end of input or term
09:07 gaal ?eval 1..Inf
09:07 evalbot_8131 pugs: out of memory (requested 1048576 bytes)
09:08 gaal ?eval 1 while 1
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09:08 evalbot_8131 (no output)
09:09 gaal if the harness could do that (on all platforms), swell.
09:09 PJF Well, on *nix systems we can use ulimit to impose a limit on each test.
09:09 gaal yes
09:10 PJF On Windows systems I'm not quite as sure.  We can use alarm() to schedule a signal, although that could cause some tests to fail on slow systems.
09:11 gaal if you want to impose a wall clock limit you always face that problem.
09:11 xinming1983 ?eval role A { method t ( *@a ) { @a }}; class B does A; class C does A { has B $.b; method BUILD { $.b = B.new; $.b.t( 'haha','hehe','xixi');}} C.new
09:11 evalbot_8131 Error: No such method: "&t"
09:11 gaal (and you do)
09:11 PJF So far nobody's objected to me tweaking the build system.  I'll fiddle a bit and see if I get any complaints from altering test.
09:11 gaal ?eval sleep 60*60*24
09:11 evalbot_8131 Error: No such method: "&sleep"
09:11 gaal grrr, it's unsafe. but if it weren't, evalbot would not wait forever.
09:11 gaal although obviously cpu time is very low for that computation.
09:12 gaal PJF: that's the spirit :-)
09:13 * gaal frustratingly can't think of a topic for a talk for YAPC
09:13 PJF How long are the YAPC slots?
09:13 gaal "variable"
09:13 gaal from lightning to 3 hours, if I want.
09:13 PJF That should make it much easier then.
09:14 gaal I'm just out of ideas :(
09:15 PJF I recently gave a lightning talk at OSDc on using a few Win32 modules to automatically play minesweeper.  There seems to be an absence of good information on Win32 GUI testing, so that's something that could easily be expanded outwards.
09:15 gaal two areas I don't particularly like. :-)
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09:16 PJF Minesweeper and testing?
09:16 gaal though the talk must have been plenty fun
09:16 gaal heh. no, gui and win32.
09:16 gaal minesweeper's not that hot as distractions go, either
09:16 PJF The talk was fantastic, although I probably did too many lightning talks at OSDc.
09:17 PJF Although I think some people are expecting me to automate solitaire now. :/
09:18 gaal :)
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09:22 gaal afk
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09:52 * PJF finds it amusing that set-infinite-recurrence.t appears to have hit an infinite loop during his smoke test. ;)
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10:10 r0nny yo
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10:47 rafl Huh.. why  s/Autrijus Tang/Audrey Tang/g?
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11:51 PJF Gaal: I note that you were working with a demo version of alarm() some time ago.  Did that make it ever near pugs?
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13:07 gaal PJF: Not really. For sure we need %*SIG, but while we're at it a variant of alarm that doesn't use signals (and is possibly thread-specific) would be nice to have.
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13:08 gaal %*SIG btw would be a little hard to get on win32, because the usual GHC there doesn't have the posix libs.
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13:19 PJF Gaal: Thanks Gaal.  I didn't think it was in PUGS yet, but thought it best I check.
13:20 PJF Looks like compiling a POSIX-flavoured GHC is reasonably easy with Cygwin, but I've put the  code away for the evening.  No doubt I'll have a little more of a play tomorrow.
13:21 PJF I'll probably end up writing some wrapper that terminates tests that are running too long.  At least on my system, some of the infinitely lazy tests seem to evaluate code that's infinitely eager.
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13:31 gaal PJF: If you do a real cygwin port (then, great!) some refactoring of Compat.hs will be necessary
13:32 gaal PJF++; # POSIX stuff on win32 would rock
13:32 wilx Hnnm.
13:33 PJF I don't have a cygwin port of GHC yet.  However I do have a cygwin environment, and from glancing over the GHC docs it used to be built with cygwin.
13:33 wilx I was not able to build GHC 6.4.1 out of the box with Cygwin.
13:33 PJF It appears they stopped to provide compatibility across all systems, not just those with cygwin installed.
13:33 PJF wilx: I haven't tried yet.  I'm expecting there to be some hiccups.
13:33 wilx I tried that unregistered or whatever it is called build.
13:34 gaal PJF: I meant pugs' Compat.hs, which kinda assumes you're either on unix or on native win32.
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13:34 PJF I've got pugs working under cygwin with a win32 ghc.  However it acts more or less like it's on a win32 platform.
13:35 PJF There's a bunch of patches I added today to fix up some pathing oddities.  All I really want is to be able to run a smoke to completion. ;)
13:36 gaal PJF: yes, cygwin as a work environment with natve win32 tools worked most of the time and broke occasionally.
13:37 gaal I'm talking about pugs' internals though, which provide compat functions for things GHC doesn't provide on Windows, eg stuff to access the environment.
13:37 gaal Corion wrote most of the compat code I think
13:37 gaal see src/Pugs/Compat.hs
13:38 gaal that file is under PUGS_HAVE_POSIX, which with luck will be true on your build; but still some things may need to be taken from there.
13:38 gaal (I imagine.)
13:45 meppl guten morgen
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14:25 rafl kane_: ping
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14:27 rafl kane_: I'm about to buy a new root server and it still needs a domain. How about sixpan.org?
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14:31 PJF Thanks Gaal!  I'll be sure to check Compat.hs in the morning. ;)
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15:52 nemux hi all
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16:09 svnbot6 r8132 | fglock++ | * misc/Parser-Mini/pil2_json_emit_p6.p6 - it can now compile small programs,
16:09 svnbot6 r8132 | fglock++ |   except for a few syntax errors like:
16:09 svnbot6 r8132 | fglock++ |   '($x,$y)=(1,2);' compiles to
16:09 svnbot6 r8132 | fglock++ |   '(&infix:<,>($x, $y)) = (&infix:<,>(1, 2));'
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16:26 fglock autrijus: isn't this supposed to work? '(&infix:<,>($x, $y)) = (&infix:<,>(1, 2));'
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16:28 fglock btw, how about: '&assign((&infix:<,>($x, $y)), (&infix:<,>(1, 2)));'
16:30 fglock or better: '&infix:<=>((&infix:<,>($x, $y)), (&infix:<,>(1, 2)));'
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16:48 * fglock wishes more of pugs was implemented in the Prelude
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17:17 fglock PJF: re set-infinite-recurrence.t - something is seriously broken - even ext/Span t/span.t enters an infinite loop. It looks like there is a problem with autogenerated methods vs. actual methods
17:27 Khisanth so ... we were having an argument about writing code in multiple languages and this came up
17:27 Khisanth <Khisanth> ParityBit: it only starts being fun when you mix ltr and rtl languages ;)
17:27 Khisanth how does perl6 handle that?
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17:29 integral Khisanth++
17:31 Khisanth sure that isn't likely to happen but Perl hackers seems to like doing things just because Perl allows them to :P
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17:46 PerlJam Khisanth: it does some really good guessing about where the end "blocks" should be and allows you to say "parse this way for the following block"
17:46 PerlJam Khisanth: as far as the actual rtl part, that's just an implementation detail  ;)
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17:54 jez Anyone here good at Sudoku? :-)
17:55 Dazhbog depends what is good ;)
17:56 jez http://www.game-point.net/misc/puzzle.pdf
17:56 jez how does the system determine that that's 9?
17:56 jez i can see 9 or 8
17:57 Dazhbog well you see the 9 has to be in either two squares in the left?
17:57 Dazhbog then if you look at the leftmost vertical line..
17:58 Dazhbog it is missing 2,7,8,9
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17:58 Dazhbog so there has to be a 9 in some of the 4 empty squares
17:58 jez ohh
17:58 jez how did i miss that
17:58 jez damn
17:59 Dazhbog it happens =)
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18:05 jez here's another i cant figure out
18:05 jez http://www.game-point.net/misc/puzzle.pdf
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18:05 jez why does 5 have to go there
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18:08 * eric256 wonders what suduko is. and guesses that one labeled VERY HARD probably isn't the place to start. ;)
18:08 integral the hardness is just a measure of how much backtracking you have to do
18:08 jez ive been playing it a while now
18:08 jez still cant get this
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18:10 jez there doesnt seem to be a logical way of getting that number there
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18:10 jez eyt there must be as that computer system doesnt do guesses/trial and error
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18:10 eric256 hmmm rules seem simple enough.
18:12 eric256 possibles for that square are 3,4,5 right?
18:14 jez apparently only 5
18:14 jez they're the obvious only possibilities
18:15 pd http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudoku <-- they go through some reasoning and algorithms here
18:16 eric256 i would guess you need to work out more of the board to get the point wher eyou find out why that has to be five.  i know the first two after the 1 in that row can't be 3 ;) so proud of myself. ;)
18:16 eric256 seems like you could get a long ways on a board only to find out you have an impossible setup and have to back track.
18:17 pd that was implied in one of the pages I saw... apparently at some point you try out a number and see where it goes, and sometimes you hit a dead end etc.
18:18 eric256 jez why so caught up on that specific spot? or are you just curious?
18:19 jez eric@ eh?
18:20 jez eric: no, that's a hint given to me by an online puzzle
18:20 jez it should be possible to figure out the red number from the black numbersw, logically
18:20 jez without revealing any more numbers
18:20 eric256 right. then you can't expect to know all the reasons behind the hint until you finish more of the puzzle.
18:20 jez eric: that's why you never guess or use backtracking
18:20 jez erm
18:20 jez yes you can
18:21 eric256 sure. if you can hold all your conclusions in your head.
18:21 eric256 the number in each square is affected by the numbers in its row, col, square whether they are given or not, so you will have to deduce some other locations before the reasoning behind that one becomes apparent
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18:26 jez yeah, i've tried
18:26 jez :-)
18:26 jez i cant figure it out
18:26 jez i was hoping someone more clever could
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18:27 eric256 the only other square in that colum that can be five is the second from the top, so i would assume there is some relation that means it can't be 5
18:32 jez i wouldnt assume that
18:33 jez there's a ton of ways of determining a number, the most ostensively easy isnt always the way
18:33 Dazhbog jez: it's a "bit" hard but yes it can be determined from that
18:33 eric256 i didn't assume anything. well i assumed that the 5 is chosen because it is the only possiblye sqyare in that col/row that can be five.
18:34 Dazhbog want me to explain that? =)
18:34 eric256 of course it could be something different, but then jez thats what i was saying that you would have to solve more of the puzzle before it became apparent
18:35 jez dazh: sorry?
18:35 jez care to explain how?
18:35 Dazhbog you don't have to solve any number for sure
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18:36 jez even "what if?" doesnt solve it
18:36 Dazhbog jez: you can deduce that in that column where the number 5 is..
18:36 jez that would allow 4
18:36 jez #
18:36 Dazhbog jez: the top empty squares must be populated by 2 and 9
18:37 Dazhbog you don't know for sure which one is in which but you don't there must be 2 and 9 in them
18:37 Dazhbog hrm.. second don't = know
18:37 Dazhbog still with me?
18:37 jez hmm yes i see
18:37 jez i'd only marked up 2 for those top ones
18:37 jez not done a comprehensive markup
18:38 jez starts to get very messy if you do markups for everything :-)_
18:38 Dazhbog well if you mark that 2 and 9 have to be in either.. then you know there can't be any others
18:38 eric256 shit. dashog is a genius ;)
18:38 jez there's no reasonably easy way to determine that
18:38 jez i guess when i get stuck it's time to start comprehensiuvely marking up EVERY damn cell
18:38 jez and it's gonna get messy
18:38 Dazhbog no..
18:38 jez but it's the only way
18:38 eric256 so the five can't be the second from the top, therefore the five is below (and my assumption holds)
18:39 Dazhbog yes.. the five which is missing in that vertical row.. can't be in either of the top two
18:39 jez yeah
18:39 Dazhbog it cannot be in the middle bigger square because there is a 5 already
18:39 jez yeah if i'd comprehensively marked those 2 up i'd have fiogured it out
18:40 jez but i dont do that for all cells as it gets very messy
18:40 jez heh
18:40 Dazhbog um I did it in my head =)
18:40 jez yes, but you knew which cell to concentrate on
18:40 Dazhbog sure
18:40 jez remember at this point i had the whole board and that red 5 wasnt there
18:40 jez i got the computer to give a hint
18:40 jez :-)
18:40 Dazhbog well.. you asked why =)
18:40 jez yeah
18:40 jez thanks
18:40 Dazhbog no problem =)
18:40 jez i'd call it "very hard" or "very messy"
18:40 jez one of the two
18:41 jez doing that in your head is extremely tough
18:42 eric256 jez. why would you do it in your head? thats why man invinvted the pencil. and yes you have ot pick a square at random to start working on. I would probably pick one that had the most givens in its col/row or square
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18:44 jez eric: im working on this generally on a bumpy train :-)
18:44 jez that's why
18:44 jez :-)
18:45 Dazhbog heh
18:46 eric256 then build your self a perl program that you can type the numbers into ;)  or just let it solve them .haha
18:46 Dazhbog get a little pda or console ;)
18:46 Dazhbog like gp2x =)
18:46 jez eric: http://www.dailysudoku.co.uk/cgi-bin/sudoku/transcribe.pl
18:48 eric256 using someone elses, and making your own are different prospects ;)
18:49 jez bugger it
18:49 jez if i cant figure out 1 cell in half an hour i just throw it away
18:49 eric256 lol. i think you are missing the patiences gene ;) them japanese and there damn puzzles of patience. ;)
18:50 jez the paper i get (free) is a bugger because they dont tell you the puzzle difficulty beforehand
18:50 jez :-)
18:50 jez they just sometimes have tough and sometimes very easy
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18:50 eric256 so go pick one of those books full of them
18:50 jez it's not as fun when you cant solve it in 30 mins
18:51 jez you just end up thinking 'what a fucking waste of time, i could've done something more productive'
18:51 jez or your journey ends
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19:01 * Limbic_Region idly wonders if there are any hackathons planned for the Philippines in the next 3 weeks
19:01 Limbic_Region otherwise - everyone who observes a holiday in this time frame - happy holidays
19:04 Khisanth you are in the Philippines?
19:06 fglock autrijus: would it be possible to emit <quoted> subroutine names in PIL2-JSON? It would fix cases like 'infix:<:>', which is output like "&infix::"
19:08 fglock nevermind, I found a workaroud
19:08 fglock (around)
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19:12 fglock oops - the workaround didn't work
19:13 Khisanth my $workaround is lazy; # :P
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19:13 fglock I tried this: '$s ~~ s:perl5{\&(.+fix:)([^:].*)}{&$0:<$1>}'
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19:14 Khisanth isn't that greedy match a bit dangerous?
19:14 Khisanth err those
19:15 fglock the problem is that it doesn't mix well with names that contain a namespace spec (::)
19:16 Khisanth what sort of thing are you trying to match?
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19:17 fglock I'm trying to fix "&infix::", which is how pugs compile 'infix:<:>'. This is a worst-case situation - other cases work ok
19:18 Limbic_Region fglock - no, I will be soon though
19:20 fglock Limbic_Region: I guess you are talking to Khisanth
19:21 Limbic_Region um no
19:21 Limbic_Region I was talking to you but I should have been talking to Khisanth
19:21 fglock :)
19:21 Limbic_Region my mind is already on vacation I guess
19:21 Khisanth fglock: so everything after the first : is the operator?
19:22 fglock happy holidays to you too - I'll be on vacation on dec-19 :)
19:22 fglock Khisanth: yes, unless you have ::, which means it is a namespace
19:23 Khisanth but that would mean infix:: is completely ambigous!
19:23 fglock &main::infix:x is a valid name too
19:24 fglock I guess &infix::infix:infix is valid too :)
19:24 Khisanth so /&[^:]+fix:(?!:).+/ ?
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19:25 Khisanth or does foo:infix:x mean something too?
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19:45 stevan__ is now known as stevan
19:45 stevan autrijus: ping
19:47 fglock Khisanth: sorry, I had a long phone call - I'll test your regex now
19:47 fglock hi stevan!
19:47 stevan hey fglock
19:48 fglock I'm working on p6->p6 conversion - it would be nice to test this with MM
19:48 fglock it compiles to "baby p6"
19:48 stevan p6->p6??
19:48 fglock which is closer to the native thing
19:49 stevan fglock: where are the files located?
19:49 fglock which means, all calls are function calls - there are no predefined primitives
19:49 r0nny yo
19:49 fglock see misc/Parser-Mini/pil2_json_emit_p6.p6
19:49 r0nny i got a problem with pugs  6.2.10 (r8093)
19:50 r0nny i call a new method in a BUILD submethod, should pass a object, but instead it saves the ref to the new method
19:51 fglock stevan: please try this: ../../pugs -Cpil2-json -e 'say "hi"' | ../../pugs pil2_json_emit_p6.p6
19:51 stevan fglock: cant, I dont have a recent compile of pugs
19:51 stevan but I am looking over hte source
19:51 * stevan suddenly remembers feather :)
19:53 r0nny anyone got an idea what to do ? ome rev'S earlyer it worked fine
19:54 stevan fglock: very interesting
19:54 stevan I assume that is the PIL2 tree
19:55 fglock your version have a long set of comments in the beginning? (the version in svn may be a bit old now)
19:56 fglock s/have/emit/
19:56 gaal hey all
19:56 stevan yes it has a long set of comment at the begining
19:56 stevan he gall
19:56 stevan hey gaal
19:56 fglock ok, I'll commit a new one in a while
19:56 gaal yo stevan
19:57 r0nny darn
19:57 stevan so fglock, is the purpose of this just to round trip p6? or do you have a more sinister purpose in mind ;)
19:58 fglock ok, comitted
19:58 r0nny im allways shocked, a few days incrase the rev by 39
19:58 svnbot6 r8133 | fglock++ | * misc/Parser-Mini/pil2_json_emit_p6.p6 - minor fixes; debugging turned off by default
19:59 fglock the new version is easily retargettable - I want to emit Parrot, but it can be used for other languages (Forth comes to mind)
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20:01 stevan fglock: very nice
20:01 stevan how would you want to integrate the MM into this?
20:03 fglock it can be integrated by writing the Prelude in p6, and then using it as the infrastructure for Classes (maybe precompiling it to PIL) - so that pugs's Classes are not used at runtime
20:04 stevan_ has joined #perl6
20:04 fglock it means that MM will be available to naive runtimes which don't implement objects
20:04 fglock and we can work out some of the ideas in Blondie, maybe
20:04 stevan_ hmm
20:05 stevan_ this is very similar to the work on the object space
20:05 stevan_ and what autrijus is doing currently
20:06 stevan_ so you want to have the mm bootstrapping to be inside the prelude
20:06 stevan_ so that your generated p6 uses the metamodel,.,. and not native (aka pugs) classes
20:06 stevan_ right?
20:06 fglock yes
20:07 stevan_ very nice
20:07 stevan_ you are bringing it around full circle :)
20:07 stevan_ p6 on p6 :)
20:09 fglock this is a short program - I think it can even be integrated with pugs itself, such that the classes used at compile time can be written in p6!
20:09 stevan_ fglock: check in with autrijus about this
20:10 stevan_ I think maybe he will want to get the objspace in HS first
20:10 stevan_ but this sounds like a fairly logical next step after that
20:10 fglock I was just thinking aloud :)
20:11 stevan_ fglock: that is always a good thing :)
20:11 * stevan_ has to get back to $work ... cursed $client wants me to work on friday ;)
20:11 fglock bye stevan
20:12 stevan_ later fglock
20:12 * stevan_ &
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20:17 r0nny submethod BUILD()
20:17 r0nny {$.populator=new Builder::Populators::Simple::Compiled;}
20:18 r0nny fails
20:20 svnbot6 r8134 | fglock++ | * misc/Parser-Mini/pil2_json_emit_p6.p6 - fixed some corner cases of subroutine name quoting
20:20 fglock Khisanth: thanks for the help. I ended up using 3 separate regexes, but it worked
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20:21 r0nny omg
20:21 r0nny i just realized something awfull
20:23 r0nny its not a problem with refs, but a problem with inheritance - and i tihnk i just made it whorse
20:23 r0nny darn the output of the perl method :/
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20:38 r0nny found a serious issue
20:39 r0nny while the perl method returns \Builder::Builders::Simple::Compiled.new(("populator" => Builder::Populators::Simple::Compiled.new()),) the defined sub returns false
20:40 r0nny (for the attr populator)
20:41 r0nny anyone got an idea ?
20:51 fglock r0nny: sorry, no
20:52 r0nny darn it
20:53 r0nny also it fails on sone other stuff again (like the endless loops on method dispatch to undef)
20:55 fglock I'm getting infinite loops too, in Span.pm and other places
20:55 fglock which used to work
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20:58 r0nny darn it :/
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21:59 fglock autrijus++ re PIL2: 'Class x { has .$a }' compiles to '(&Class((&postcircumfix:<{}>((&has(($a())))))));'
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21:59 fglock err, '(&Class((&postcircumfix:<{}>((&has($a))))));'
22:06 fglock 'Class x { method b { 1 } }' doesn't emit code correctly yet - I'll check this later
22:06 fglock &
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22:13 Alias_ I have kidnapped your leader
22:13 Alias_ He is now trapped in my volcano lair
22:14 Alias_ If you want him back, it will cost you one MEEEEEEEEEEEELLION dollars!
22:18 cognominal has joined #perl6
22:19 Alias_ And for your more important leader, well... she will cost one BIIIIIIILION dollars!
22:20 autrijus any rumour of my hostage situation is greatly exaggerated.
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22:21 Alias_ YOU ESCAPED!
22:21 Alias_ RELEASE THE FLYING MONKEYS!
22:23 obra Alias_: one meelion australian? I have that in my couch
22:23 Alias_ hahahahah
22:23 Alias_ Well it is a very very large couch
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22:58 autrijus stevan_: ping
22:58 autrijus kane-xs_: ping
22:58 autrijus gaal: ping
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23:05 stevan_ autrijus: pong
23:05 autrijus stevan_: yay
23:05 stevan_ can't talk really,.. just wanted to see how objspace is going
23:05 autrijus stevan_: okay, a whole slew of questions...
23:05 autrijus aw. :/
23:05 stevan_ doh
23:05 stevan_ hmm
23:05 stevan_ how long will you be awake?
23:05 autrijus it's doing fine but had some design questions :) when's your next slice of time?
23:05 autrijus 10hr from now on
23:06 stevan_ you will be awake for 10 hours? or awake again in 10 hours
23:06 Alias_ She'll vanish in about 2-3 hours for 1-2 hours, but otherwise around for next 12+ hours
23:07 stevan_ ah
23:07 Alias_ Having escaped the volcano lair, I must relocate to my rainforest lair
23:07 stevan_ :)
23:07 * stevan_ always suspected Alias_ was the type to have a "lair" or two
23:08 Alias_ When one tries to take over the world, one has to deal with this sort of thing
23:08 Alias_ And do you have any idea how complex occupational health and safety issues are in regards to lairs?
23:08 Alias_ The shark tank alone! :(
23:08 stevan_ a true evil genious would ignore OSHA regulations
23:08 stevan_ :P
23:09 stevan_ autrijus: I need to disappear to meatspace for about 2 hours,.. but after that I will be around
23:09 Alias_ stevan_: That's a stereotypical view of evil geniuses!
23:10 autrijus stevan_: ok, got it
23:10 stevan_ Alias_: you got me there,.. I suppose you are the kindler gentler evil genius type :)
23:10 * stevan_ has gotta go before he gets in trouble &
23:10 Alias_ stevan_: Think of it as smart evil... knowing who not to mess with ( OH&S Inspectors)
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23:45 PJF Morning everyone.
23:46 PJF I'm trying to determine my expectation for some tests in pugs.  ext/FA-DFA/t/DFA.t appears to go into an infinite loop after the first test.  Is my system special, or is anyone else able to reproduce this?
23:46 mjl69 has quit IRC ()
23:48 autrijus I can reproduce this.
23:48 autrijus sec.
23:50 PJF Thanks Audrey.  How should I respond to infinitely-looping tests?  Obviously I should fix them when possible, or mark them to be skipped.  However should I be submitting code that causes tests to be skipped?  I'm sure we want the test suite to run without human intervention, but I feel quite uneasy committing code that would effectively remove tests.
23:51 autrijus PJF: first report them here. then put a flunk() in place of the test
23:51 autrijus comment out that test
23:51 PJF What I really want is something that zaps tests after they've been running for a specified period without any output.  I just haven't had the time to write something that will work in a cross-platform fashion.
23:51 autrijus and say fluck("infinite loop")
23:51 autrijus s/fluck/flunk/
23:51 PJF And commit the flunk?
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23:51 autrijus yes.
23:52 PJF Thanks Audrey.  Shall do.
23:53 autrijus I'll bbiab... gotta get objspace running to a respectable degree today
23:53 autrijus &
23:54 * luqui is going to use fluck as his new expletive
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