Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2005-12-13

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
00:00 gaal I seem to recall $Larry said something rulingy about my $x; my $x. But I don't remember what it was, and ruleVarDeclaration doesn't seem to treat dupes
00:00 gaal oh, it can't!
00:00 gaal if there is dupe treatment it has to be in Eval
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00:01 audreyt yup
00:01 gaal holy moly, findSub is long.
00:01 audreyt gaal: the idea is simply to take something akin to envInitDat and translate the "use" node into a Pad node
00:01 audreyt gaal: findSub is the #1 reason why I'm doing this new minimal baselayer runtime ;)
00:02 gaal :)
00:02 audreyt gaal: anyway. if you turn ruleUsePerlPackage so it yields a Pad
00:02 audreyt just like the one in ruleVarDescl
00:02 audreyt s/Descl/Declaration/
00:02 audreyt mergeStmts will automagically introduce it lexically to the following block statements
00:02 audreyt s/block statements/statements in the lexical block/
00:02 gaal ...then that's most of the way, but not all
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00:03 gaal because @?PRAGMA needs to see what essentially was @?OUTER::PRAGMA
00:03 Khisanth gaal: that is not a warning anymore?
00:03 audreyt gaal: I'd say it's all... if you want error detection, you can do it in mergeStmts
00:03 gaal it's not all, I think
00:03 audreyt gaal: right, but you can get that by setRuleEnv/getRuleEnv
00:04 gaal { use moose; { # use moose in effect. } }
00:04 audreyt yes, but you already have envPragmas
00:04 audreyt just use that
00:04 audreyt setRuleEnv with something augmented with envPragmas
00:04 gaal yup, ok
00:04 gaal Khisanth: maybe!
00:06 gaal brb
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00:11 audreyt I'll brb also
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00:27 gaal hmmm. how would importation specs be implemented? ruleSubDeclaration assumes 'is export' means always to export immediatey, upon parse.
00:30 gaal maybe I should wait till tomorrow for this :/
00:30 clkao svk sucks
00:30 clkao svk st is too slow
00:34 ingy svk rocks!
00:34 rafl Indeed.
00:34 ingy at least that's what I hear
00:34 ingy on #svk...
00:34 ingy hi clkao
00:34 ingy coming home soon?
00:39 clkao in about a week
00:39 clkao but i am busy for the first week
00:40 Odin-LAP clkao: You keep declaring that svk sucks. Why don't you just stop using it?
00:40 Odin-LAP *grin*
00:40 * obra snickers
00:42 clkao Odin-LAP: it's not like you can find anything better you know... but it's still software
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00:48 gaal yup, i'm out. night...
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01:00 stevan_ audreyt: ping
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01:09 lisppaste3 stevan pasted "Factorial in core runtime mini-language" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/14581
01:09 stevan_ audreyt: is that correct syntax?
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01:11 lisppaste3 stevan annotated #14581 with "Forgot a .call()" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/14581#1
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02:07 stevan Andy: more pugs http://floraspetproject.org/Olliepug.JPG
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02:25 audreyt stevan: yo
02:27 audreyt stevan: I think lazy .or and .and doesn't work really
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02:27 pengo did you know a baby echidna is called a puggle?
02:28 q[Skud] pengo: wtf?
02:28 q[Skud] a puggle is a toy.
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02:29 q[Skud] albeit a toy that looks like a baby echidna.
02:34 pengo mmm.. makes you think, eh?
02:41 audreyt stevan: I'll rename them to .or_do and .and_do respectively
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02:44 audreyt stevan_: a sec... I think I can make it work in a few mins
02:46 q[Skud] audreyt: ok, i'm sitting at hte office with a quietish afternoon ahead of me.  what do i need to do to get pugs up and running?  i'm on ubuntu.
02:47 rafl apt-get install pugs?
02:47 q[Skud] no such package.
02:47 rafl It's in dapper/universe.
02:47 q[Skud] hang on, lemme do a dist-upgrade.
02:48 q[Skud] i am behind.
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02:51 audreyt q[Skud]: what rafl said. also after dist-upgrade, install subversion
02:51 audreyt and check out http://svn.openfoundry.org/pugs/
02:51 audreyt also, I'm thinking about the idea of handing out metacommitter bits (i.e. let people invite more people) to anyone I've met in realworld
02:51 audreyt does it sound sane?
02:52 rafl Why only those who you met in realworld? :-)
02:53 rafl audreyt: And why check it out using svn if there are precompiled binaries if you only want to play with it?
02:55 audreyt rafl: skud is helping out doc reorg; she'd need the latest docs tree and commit it
02:56 rafl audreyt: Oh, OK then.
02:56 q[Skud] ok.
02:56 audreyt rafl: I think I'd accept OpenPGP trust model as an alternative
02:57 audreyt rafl: but I'd like to at least have some idea of how to find someone :)
02:57 rafl audreyt: We don't have a trust path nor did we met so far (I think we will in march, though) and I am metacommiter nevertheless.
02:57 rafl audreyt: How about the #perl6 regulars at first?
02:58 rafl Or the regular commiters.
02:58 rafl s/regular/most active/
02:59 q[Skud] how about just whoever audreyt trusts, for whatever definition she happens to use?  why over-specify it?
03:00 obra has there been a problem with new committers having trouble getting bits, audreyt?
03:00 audreyt rafl: I think my idea was just "extending the metacommitter bit a bit" :)
03:00 audreyt obra: I think so, yes. they had to come to #perl6
03:00 obra larry didn't come to #perl6. nor guido ;)
03:01 audreyt and that's exactly why I'm extending the metacommitter base :)
03:01 clkao no biscuits
03:01 audreyt because then ingy can run to oscon and hand out bits to them.
03:01 obra That's a good reason to give ingy bits
03:02 * q[Skud] ponders ingy's bits
03:02 audreyt and ingy is not currently metacommitter :)
03:02 obra so that should get fixed.
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03:02 obra Anyway, I'd go with "anybody audreyt trusts" over "anybody audreyt has met"
03:02 obra which is a fine line ;)
03:02 audreyt yeah, and extremely blurry :)
03:02 audreyt but ok, I'll go ahead and do that :)
03:03 obra blurry lines are good :)
03:03 obra it means people don't get too hung up on the line itself
03:03 audreyt yup.
03:03 rafl audreyt: Is there a policy for giving comit bits, btw? I'd like to give some to two interested people as well. And I'll do a perl 6 workshop on GPW next march and interested auditors could get a commit bit as well as a feather account there.
03:03 * obra remembers he should get more tea
03:04 meppl gute nacht
03:04 clkao s/tea/sleep
03:04 q[Skud] audreyt: is there somewhere on the web that i can look at this docs tree while i wait for my dist-upgrade?
03:05 clkao wget -r -np?
03:05 audreyt rafl: yes... the policy is that you trust that person is willing to communicate (eg. come to #perl6 or write to p6c) and is not intentionally destructive :)
03:05 audreyt q[Skud]: http://svn.openfoundry.org/pugs/
03:05 audreyt q[Skud]: svn repos are also websites :)
03:05 q[Skud] thanks.
03:05 q[Skud] this'll be good for me. i need to get exposed to svn.
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03:06 ingy audreyt: can I be a metacommitter?
03:06 audreyt ingy: you are one now :)
03:06 rafl audreyt: OK. I'll try to comply that requirements.
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03:07 q[Skud] audreyt: straight off, i can see a need for a p6intro as well as a p5-to-p6 transition cheatsheet
03:08 audreyt q[Skud]: some relevant bits: docs/articles/tpr.pod docs/other/porting_howto
03:08 q[Skud] ok
03:08 audreyt I think what we can do is feed you pointers to raw data, and what we'd need is some sense of organization
03:08 audreyt also, docs/README
03:09 q[Skud] yeah, i started at docs/README
03:10 q[Skud] i think i'd be most comfortable starting with writing p6intro.pod and branching off into more detailed .pod files as required. basically treat it like the p5 docs for now, but in the knowledge that we can rearrange and make it work for us as we go
03:10 q[Skud] and have some naming consistency
03:10 blm To contribute to pugs is it kind of too late if you don't know Haskell fluently?
03:10 audreyt blm: nope... 70%+ of our committers probably doesn't know haskell fluently
03:11 obra I know no haskell
03:11 audreyt blm: and haskell's role in pugs, while important, is gradually decreasing as more bits are written in perl6 itself (and perl5 and javascript and whatnot)
03:11 q[Skud] audreyt: did you say you had Perl6::Doc reserved?
03:12 SamB why javascript?
03:12 SamB what possible use could javascript be to this project?
03:12 blm So pugs is to get to perl6 which allows perl6 interpreter/compiler to be written in perl6?
03:13 q[Skud] audreyt: and also, how do you see people reading perl6 docs?  perldoc Perl6::Doc::Intro and so on?
03:13 audreyt q[Skud]: not yet at the moment. I'm still wondering whether Perl6::Doc::* is better, or just Perl6::Spec::*, Perl6::Tutorial::*, etc
03:13 q[Skud] i can see Perl6::Doc being handy as a working documentation set that may grow into the p6 distribution's docs
03:13 blm I am sorry.  I should be reading on the www instead.
03:13 q[Skud] i don't see any point in breaking out tutorials etc
03:14 audreyt q[Skud]: there is a Perl6::Bible on CPAN under ingy's name that offers the "p6bible" cmdline tool. I wonder if we can extend it to "p6doc"
03:14 audreyt q[Skud]: but for now, perldoc Perl6::Doc::Intro is perhaps the most straightforward.
03:14 q[Skud] yeah
03:14 q[Skud] i'm just thinking, making a hierarchy of docs sounds bloody useful
03:14 q[Skud] the p5 doc space is flat
03:14 audreyt indeed
03:15 q[Skud] but having Perl6::Doc::Tutorials::* and Perl6::Doc::Data::* could be handy
03:15 obra Data?
03:15 audreyt I'd call ::Data as ::Reference </bikeshed>
03:15 obra Also, Tutorials or Tutorial?
03:15 q[Skud] oh, i'm just riffing off docs/data
03:15 q[Skud] well, we can figure that out.
03:15 audreyt indeed
03:15 q[Skud] i'm just saying that hte hierarchy would be handy
03:15 audreyt very true
03:15 obra agreed
03:16 q[Skud] i wonder whether it makes sense to make the upper level by type of document and the next level by topic, or vice versa?
03:16 audreyt q[Skud]: alias and I brainstormed a bit about P6Doc::Tutorial::* P6Doc::Spec::* etc
03:16 q[Skud] like, Perl6::Doc::Object::Tutorial or Perl6::Doc::Tutorial::Objects
03:17 q[Skud] yeah, i think type of document uppermost makes a bit more sense
03:17 audreyt but if you think Perl6::Doc is clearer and easier to grok, I have no problem with that
03:17 q[Skud] with Reference, Tutorial, Spec
03:17 audreyt P6Doc has the advantage of Perl6::* modules on CPAN is mostly perl6 emulators
03:17 obra Except for the Bible?
03:18 audreyt except for the bible, which we are refactoring now
03:18 q[Skud] i think Perl6::Doc would be more acceptable to the PAUSE crowd
03:18 audreyt well, alias and I are both pause admins :)
03:18 q[Skud] the entire Perl6 namespace will be obsoleted when p6 itself is released, presumably.  for the meantime, makes sense to keep it all together.
03:18 q[Skud] so am i.
03:19 q[Skud] an inactive one, though ;)
03:19 audreyt yup.
03:19 q[Skud] ok, so, here's what i see
03:20 q[Skud] Perl6::Doc as the top level. beneath it, sections based on types of documentation.  Reference and Tutorial are two that I'd probably start on early on.  and a p6doc command line tool where p6doc Foo::Bar is equivalent to perldoc Perl6::Doc::Foo::Bar
03:21 audreyt totally agreed.
03:21 audreyt I've sent the namespace req to modules@.
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03:21 q[Skud] ok, i just foresaw another problem
03:21 gugod has joined #perl6
03:21 q[Skud] oh no. never mind.
03:21 q[Skud] i'm an idiot :)
03:21 audreyt I love self cancelling problems :)
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03:22 q[Skud] the best kind.
03:22 q[Skud] audreyt: ok, so i can make a docs/p6doc directory or something and work in there?
03:23 audreyt q[Skud]: sure!
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03:23 audreyt be sure to put a README there -- that's probably the only convention for new subproject dirs
03:23 q[Skud] yeah.
03:23 ingy hi skuq
03:24 q[Skud] inpy!
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03:34 svnbot6 r8193 | autrijus++ | * PIL.Native: add $block.(1,2,3) form to replace the .call form, eg:
03:34 svnbot6 r8193 | autrijus++ |     ->{3}.()
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03:37 audreyt blm: to answer your earlier question, yes, pugs's goal is to make perl6 self host.
03:37 lisppaste3 has joined #perl6
03:38 rafl Isn't fun the goal? :-)
03:38 blm audreyt: Thanks
03:38 q[Skud] wait! i was told there were piles of cash and that i'd get groupies!
03:39 audreyt rafl: no, fun is what we're optimizing for. :)
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03:39 obra q[Skud]: the cash is in a gift-economy currency.
03:40 obra It's called "respect". Sadly, you only get to spend it on things like "why the hell won't this kernel build?"
03:42 q[Skud] bugger.
03:42 q[Skud] grah. i think i should go buy one of those wrist brace support thingies.
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03:44 q[Skud] by the time i get back the dist-upgrade might be done :)
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04:01 svnbot6 r8194 | autrijus++ | * PIL.Native.Eval: functional application works.
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04:26 audreyt stevan_: factorial runs.
04:28 svnbot6 r8195 | autrijus++ | * PIL.Native: "make pil" now produces a executable that can be run
04:28 svnbot6 r8195 | autrijus++ |   with a file as argument.
04:28 svnbot6 r8195 | autrijus++ | * PIL.Native: implement BIT.cond that takes two blocks for if/else
04:28 svnbot6 r8195 | autrijus++ |   respectively.  This example from stevan++ now runs:
04:28 svnbot6 r8195 | autrijus++ |     # Mini-Language Factorial
04:28 svnbot6 r8195 | autrijus++ |     (-> $n { (-> &fact { &fact.(&fact, $n) })
04:28 svnbot6 r8195 | autrijus++ |         .(-> &f, $x {
04:28 svnbot6 r8195 | autrijus++ |             $x.eq(0).cond(
04:28 svnbot6 r8195 | autrijus++ |                 -> { 1 },
04:28 svnbot6 r8195 | autrijus++ |                 -> { $x.multiply( &f.(&f, $x.subtract(1)) ) })
04:28 svnbot6 r8195 | autrijus++ |         });
04:29 svnbot6 r8195 | autrijus++ |     }).(10);
04:31 audreyt stevan_: I'll go offline and work on bootsrapping the rest of container types... bbiab
04:31 audreyt &
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04:40 stevan audreyt: ping
04:40 audreyt stevan: pong
04:40 stevan hey
04:41 stevan I am backlogging right now
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04:41 stevan factorial runs :)
04:42 stevan Y combinator ++
04:43 audreyt stevan: yup :) you still up for documenting the structure of PIL.Native?
04:43 stevan so make pil will produce a "pugs" executable? or  "pil" executable
04:43 audreyt I'm working out PIL.MM right now
04:43 audreyt a "pil" executable
04:43 stevan audreyt: of course, I just need to get an executable so I can test my assumptions ;)
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04:48 stevan audreyt: can I ask some questions? or are you busy atm?
04:48 svnbot6 r8196 | autrijus++ | * remove bits of old PIL.* that doesn't do anything.
04:48 svnbot6 r8196 | autrijus++ |   (rerun "perl Makefile.PL" if you'd like to "make pil".)
04:48 audreyt sure, please do
04:48 stevan mkCall in Coerce.hs, this is method calls?
04:52 stevan oh I see, in Types, it is a NativeLanguageExpression
04:53 stevan so all the Native* things are the Haskell side implementations?
04:54 audreyt sorry, was afk
04:54 audreyt yes.
04:54 stevan no problem
04:55 stevan and Prim is the mapping to our mini-lang
04:55 audreyt yes.
04:55 stevan I am not seeing cond()
04:55 audreyt the pure part of it, anyway
04:55 audreyt yeah, because it's sideeffectful
04:55 stevan why?
04:55 audreyt because the blocks may perform side effects
04:55 stevan oh,.. in the MM part then
04:55 stevan I see
04:56 audreyt so it's hardcoded in Eval
04:56 audreyt (currently)
04:56 stevan ok
04:56 audreyt bit.cond() and block.() are currently hardcoded
04:57 stevan so was my understanding of the scoping correct?
04:57 stevan that everything must be wrapped in a block to be named
05:02 stevan ok, I think I have enough to go on now
05:02 stevan hmmm that wasnt very many questions :)
05:02 stevan You will have to review for correctness after I commit
05:05 audreyt ok
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05:07 audreyt array expression desugaring is in. I don't yet see a need for hash expression sugar for MM bootstrap
05:07 svnbot6 r8197 | autrijus++ | * PIL.Native: add support for array expressions in addition to literals:
05:07 svnbot6 r8197 | autrijus++ |     [1,2,3.add(4)]
05:07 svnbot6 r8197 | autrijus++ |   is desugared into:
05:07 svnbot6 r8197 | autrijus++ |     [].push(1,2,3.add(4))
05:08 audreyt so I'll punt on that and go back to Instance
05:08 stevan I kind of like the desugared arrays :)
05:09 audreyt in any case, I think [].push is better than Array.new :)
05:09 audreyt or Seq.new
05:09 stevan yes
05:11 xgl audreyt, did you see my question about the ambiguous parse?
05:11 audreyt xgl: try asking on the channel next time :)
05:12 xgl i've got a question about an ambiguous parse ...
05:12 audreyt (and yeah, I answered it)
05:12 xgl "if foo(1,2){bar(3)}" could be either illegal (i.e. conditional without body, if we're returning a hash from foo) or legal?
05:13 xgl sorry, i might have missed the answer somehow
05:13 audreyt it's illegal if you don't follow it with the body
05:13 audreyt ?eval if hash(1,2){3} { 4 }
05:13 xgl but if foo doesn't return a hash, but an int, say, it would be legal?
05:14 evalbot_8169 is now known as evalbot_8197
05:14 evalbot_8197 undef
05:14 xgl the parser would have to figure that out?
05:14 audreyt no, it's illegal no matter what, I think... you need whitespaces around conditionals in paren-free if
05:14 audreyt ?eval  if hash(1,2){3}{ 4 }
05:14 evalbot_8197 Error:  unexpected "i" expecting program reserved word
05:15 audreyt (and yes, that means whitespace is significant here)
05:15 xgl ah, ok, and hash subscripts can't have white space before them?
05:15 audreyt correct. you need to say .{} if you want whitespace
05:15 audreyt ?eval hash(1,2){1}
05:15 evalbot_8197 \2
05:15 audreyt ?eval hash(1,2)    .{1}
05:15 evalbot_8197 \2
05:15 xgl cool, thanx!
05:15 audreyt like that.
05:15 audreyt np :)
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05:17 audreyt stevan: ping
05:18 audreyt stevan: you don't distinguish between "is rw" and "is ro" attrs in an opaque
05:18 audreyt is it intentional?
05:18 stevan audreyt: pong
05:18 audreyt for example, if I autobox NativeInt into Instance
05:19 stevan audreyt: I assumed that access will be mediated elsewhere
05:19 audreyt it wouldn't make sense to set_attr it, would it
05:19 stevan hmm, no it wont
05:19 q[Skud] ok. i finished that dist-upgrade, and "apt-get install pugs" still doesn't work.  is pugs *known* to be in the ubuntu deb repositories?  what repository specifically?  what do i need in my /etc/apt/sources.list to get it?
05:19 audreyt q[Skud]: you need to pull in universe, I think
05:20 audreyt (note I know nothing about how to do that)
05:20 q[Skud] got universe
05:20 audreyt mm
05:20 q[Skud] hang on. apt-get install pugs, right?
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05:20 q[Skud] not, like, pugs-something or something-pugs or anything?
05:20 audreyt I do see pugs in /pub/mirrors/ubuntu/pool/universe/p/pugs
05:20 audreyt aye
05:20 stevan audreyt: actually weren't the "is rw" and "is ro" just related to the autogenerated accessors?
05:21 stevan when in the "has $:foo is ro" form
05:21 q[Skud] apt-cache search pugs gives me nothing
05:21 blm http://mirror.isp.net.au/ftp/pub/ubuntu/pool/universe/p/pugs/
05:21 blm ?
05:21 stevan because the class still needs access to them too, if they are ro inside the Instance type, how would you ever assign to them?
05:22 q[Skud] what do people have in their /etc/apt/sources.list?
05:22 audreyt stevan: I'm thinking maybe you don't assign to an "ro" attribute at all
05:22 audreyt even internally
05:22 q[Skud] i have:
05:22 q[Skud] deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu breezy universe
05:22 q[Skud] deb-src http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu breezy universe
05:22 q[Skud] note to self: use .au mirror
05:22 stevan audreyt: you are thinking for autoboxed types?
05:23 audreyt stevan: that, and instances declared as ro (which is default)
05:23 blm q[Skud]: Not at home so I am limited in the help I can give
05:23 stevan instances as ro?
05:23 audreyt q[Skud]: I do see http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/p/pugs/
05:24 stevan audreyt: I am not sure I agree with you on this one :\
05:24 audreyt stevan: hm, so it's always rw internally?
05:25 stevan the core instance type should always be rw, the methods should mediate  access
05:25 audreyt nvm, you are absolutely correct
05:25 q[Skud] blm: do you use breezy?
05:25 audreyt so you should be able to do
05:26 audreyt class Int is extended { method reset { $!val = 0 } }
05:26 blm q[Skud]: Yes I think so. 5.10.  Breezy is the latest? I got my CD at OSDC conference
05:26 q[Skud] yes.
05:26 q[Skud] bizarre.
05:26 audreyt and violate encapsulation happily?
05:26 audreyt that sounds very perlish.
05:26 stevan audreyt: open unless explicity closed :)
05:26 audreyt right. so you think that "extended" form above makes sense?
05:27 audreyt assuming $!val is the internal name for int box
05:27 stevan it makes sense, I dont think it is wise :)
05:27 blm q[Skud]: au mirror is http://au.archive.ubuntu.com/
05:27 audreyt eh right, I was asking whether it makes sense for the MM to support it
05:27 * stevan ponders finalized classes ....
05:28 stevan MM to support the is extended form?
05:28 blm q[Skud]: works out to be mirrors.uwa.edu.au
05:28 * audreyt concludes autoboxing will be much slower
05:28 audreyt stevan: no, the explicit set of unboxed value inside a box
05:28 audreyt it's almost like saying "1 = 2"
05:28 stevan hmm
05:29 audreyt and "1" everywhere will become "2"... fun
05:29 blm q[Skud]: pugs is on that mirror too http://au.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/p/pugs/
05:29 stevan ok, maybe that is too much fun
05:29 audreyt so maybe set_attr on autoboxed stuff is just error
05:30 stevan well it really depends on how we handle the autoboxing
05:30 stevan but yes, that is probably wise
05:30 audreyt mm.
05:30 stevan afterall the unboxed value is not a user-lang type
05:31 stevan 2 in userland is Int.new(2) right?
05:31 audreyt nope. it's unbox 2
05:31 stevan hmm
05:32 stevan what if the boxed types were finalized classes?
05:32 audreyt that way you can't say "0 but true".
05:32 q[Skud] ah, i think i need multiverse not universe.  sorry, new ubuntu user here.
05:32 stevan cannot be extended, or subclassed
05:32 audreyt oh wait, it wouldn't be "int" anymore
05:32 audreyt but it's still "Int"
05:32 stevan yes
05:33 audreyt I think I got it... I'll see if I can come up with something saneish.
05:33 stevan ok
05:33 stevan are the core boxed types supposed to be extendable? is that written anywehre?
05:33 q[Skud] no. gah. i'm still stuck.  yes, i can see it on the website.  no, i can't see it with apt-search/apt-get
05:34 audreyt q[Skud]: have you refreshed cache?
05:35 audreyt stevan: according to S12 everything is open.
05:35 stevan then maybe 1=2 should be possible?
05:35 q[Skud] audreyt: yes. apt-get update.
05:36 stevan silly and unwise, but possible
05:36 audreyt stevan: for some reason it fills me with distaste... I'd much rather if $!val is not in the attr slot
05:36 audreyt and just delegated to the underlying unboxed NativeInt
05:36 audreyt so you can't access it as a member variable in extended code
05:37 stevan so class Int is extended { method add_one { $!val + 1 }} is okay
05:37 audreyt nope. you need
05:37 audreyt self + 1
05:37 stevan but class Int is extended { method reset { $!val = 0 } } is not
05:37 audreyt there's no $!val anywhere, that's my proposal
05:37 stevan ah yeah
05:38 stevan hmm
05:38 blm q[Skud]: Why do you think it is multiverse that you need?
05:38 audreyt and "&self" is not rw, so we are safe.
05:38 stevan so the Instance is a thin opaque wreapper on the unboxed type
05:38 audreyt yup
05:38 stevan I like that
05:38 stevan thats feels better
05:38 q[Skud] blm: oh, i was confused and wrong. never mind that. i retract that statement.
05:38 blm q[Skud]: np
05:39 audreyt stevan: glad we don't disagree anymore :D
05:39 stevan yes, that was an ugly 5 minutes :)
05:39 audreyt *smile*
05:40 q[Skud] ok, well, dpkg to the rescue.  sigh.
05:40 * stevan is suprised at how much seems to fall into place with this approach
05:41 audreyt :)
05:41 stevan since all reasonable operations on self will already be defined
05:41 audreyt yup.
05:42 blm q[Skud]: Want me to help when I get home?
05:42 q[Skud] ok, now there are dependency problems.  pugs requires ghc 6.4.1 specificlaly, but breezy's current version is 6.4-4.1ubuntu an it gets all confused
05:42 q[Skud] blm: if i haven't got it sorted yet, that'd be great.
05:43 stevan audreyt: BTW - I am trying to manage getting to the hackathon.il
05:43 q[Skud] ok, i think i may have faked it out
05:43 audreyt q[Skud]: I see http://packages.ubuntu.com/dapper/devel/ghc6
05:43 q[Skud] i now have a pugs thing.
05:44 audreyt ooh, Skud++
05:44 q[Skud] and i have it running.
05:44 audreyt wow.
05:44 q[Skud] show me how to do hello world, so i can feel good.
05:44 audreyt stevan: excellent!
05:44 blm q[Skud]: Good stuff :-)
05:44 stevan I assume you are not going to attend YAPC::NA 06
05:44 audreyt ./pugs -e 'say "Hello, World"'
05:44 audreyt er, I mean
05:44 audreyt pugs -e 'say "Hello, world"'
05:45 q[Skud] hurrah!
05:45 stevan pugs -e '"Hello, world".say' :)
05:45 q[Skud] *happy dance*
05:45 audreyt :))
05:45 audreyt q[Skud]: write down your command history to http://pugs.kwiki.org/?PugsDownload before it disappears?
05:45 audreyt (or alternatively document it into docs/)
05:45 q[Skud] audreyt: good lord. it's terrifying.
05:45 q[Skud] audreyt: um. i'm not sure i want to inflict it on anyone else.
05:46 q[Skud] like, it uses a lot of --force-blah
05:46 audreyt q[Skud]: I imagine there may be ubuntu users who'd need this help
05:46 revdiablo q[Skud]: If you put up what you did, someone may either fix the problems you encountered or come up with an easier way to do it
05:46 audreyt if you feel uncomfortable with it in the pugs tree, put it in the wiki, or just nopaste it :)
05:46 q[Skud] well, ok
05:46 audreyt Skud++
05:46 audreyt stevan: when and were is that?
05:47 stevan Chicago late June
05:47 audreyt ah... then maybe not
05:47 stevan you ban still has 3 years left in office ;)
05:48 stevan s/ban/boycot/
05:48 audreyt stevan: I'll reevaluate if needed... but doesn't look terribly good at this moment either
05:49 * stevan would rather go to il than chicago himself :)
05:49 audreyt stevan: anyway. your "core" list and hash can also hold Instance
05:49 audreyt bug? feature?
05:49 stevan hmm
05:49 stevan yes, they will need to be able to
05:50 audreyt that causes a level interdependency
05:50 stevan true
05:50 audreyt so is Instance after all a core native type? :)
05:51 audreyt or we just declare it a interdependency
05:51 audreyt the code can deal with it
05:51 stevan well the Core and MM seperation was somewhat arbitrary anyway
05:51 audreyt yeah, so I think we lose it
05:51 stevan ok
05:51 stevan I have no problem with that
05:52 * audreyt does a type-directed coding
05:52 audreyt (changing the type for NativeMap and fix all type errors)
05:53 q[Skud] ok, wikid it
05:53 q[Skud] someone read it and tell me if it makes sufficient sense?
05:54 q[Skud] ok, so i should check out the pugs code i guess
05:55 obra Is there a pugs wiki?
05:55 q[Skud] apparently so.
05:55 q[Skud] pugs.kwiki.org
05:55 audreyt apparently our /topic is obscure :)
05:55 audreyt q[Skud]: I fixed your formatting
05:55 audreyt looks sane, thanks!
05:55 obra audreyt: there are too many urls
05:55 audreyt indeed
05:55 obra and there's no wiki on pugscode.org
05:56 q[Skud] gah, now i can't apt-get install svn ... definitely something borked in ubuntu here
05:56 audreyt obra: nod. that's very much intentional
05:56 audreyt q[Skud]: s/svn/subversion/?
05:56 q[Skud] oh, it's called subversion
05:56 q[Skud] yes.
05:56 q[Skud] *headdesk*
05:56 obra audreyt: that's..unfortunate :/
05:57 stevan has quit IRC ("Lost terminal")
05:58 audreyt obra: *nod* but I'd like it to be strictly a scratchpad for lambdacamels. all reusable docs should be in the svn tree (and now Perl6::Doc)
05:58 q[Skud] svn-- # man pages, people! they exist for a reason!
05:58 obra audreyt: ah. ok. that's quite reasonable.
05:58 audreyt q[Skud]: svn co http://svn.openfoundry.org/pugs
05:59 q[Skud] yup, got it.
05:59 q[Skud] had to go look at webpages.  sigh.
05:59 q[Skud] how do i tell it who i am?
05:59 audreyt you do it on your first checkin
05:59 audreyt svn ci
06:00 q[Skud] ahhh.
06:00 q[Skud] it asks me?
06:00 audreyt yup.
06:00 q[Skud] ok, np.
06:00 audreyt sanity and all
06:00 q[Skud] wheee.
06:01 * obra updates the wiki to add audrey's clarificiation of its purpose
06:03 audreyt obra++
06:03 audreyt stevan_: is change_class ever exposed to userland in any way?
06:03 audreyt i.e. is there a code path that leads there?
06:04 audreyt i.e. can you rebless in perl6?
06:04 stevan_ audreyt: change_class is probably not exposed to userlang
06:04 audreyt (I don't see one, hence the question)
06:04 audreyt good. then it can go. :)
06:04 stevan_ it is only used in the Eigenclasses
06:05 audreyt but we can make them nondestructive.
06:05 audreyt i.e. essentially make another Instance that share the Opaque
06:05 stevan_ ok
06:05 stevan_ that works
06:05 stevan_ I use it also in the bootstrap though
06:05 stevan_ so that Class is an instance of Class
06:06 audreyt $::CLASS = $::CLASS.update_class_with($::CLASS)
06:06 stevan_ ok
06:06 audreyt hm, that doesn't quite work.
06:07 audreyt anyway, I'll deal.
06:07 stevan_ it is the same as change_class really
06:07 q[Skud] there. committed a README
06:07 audreyt Skud++
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06:08 r0nny yo
06:08 svnbot6 r8198 | skud++ | Initial rough outline of how p6doc will work.
06:10 audreyt stevan_: what is 1.id?
06:10 stevan_ good question :)
06:11 audreyt I think it will be whatever the previous 1.id is
06:11 audreyt and if it's the first call to 1.id, then current count of objects + 1
06:11 stevan_ previous 1.id?
06:11 audreyt i.e. boxing increments the id.
06:11 stevan_ wouldnt calling .id cause it to autobox?
06:11 audreyt to me it's the most intuitive of all.
06:11 audreyt sure would
06:11 stevan_ oh I see
06:12 * audreyt checks irb and confirms that it's ruby's behaviour
06:12 stevan_ well I would assume that we cache 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, etc so they are singletons
06:12 audreyt they are
06:12 audreyt but still their .id can't be predetermined
06:12 audreyt see: diagonal
06:12 stevan_ yes, thats fine
06:12 audreyt cool :)
06:13 stevan_ as long as 1.id returns the same value always
06:13 audreyt aye
06:13 stevan_ I dont think the value it produces is as important as the values uniqueness
06:14 audreyt nodnod.
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06:17 audreyt I'll bbiab -- need to be offline in order to complete the bootstrap :) &
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06:33 q[Skud] what's a good name for a document for users coming from perl 5, which assumes familiarity with perl 5 and just describes the differences?
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06:33 q[Skud] Perl6::Doc::Perl5Differences
06:37 stevan_ audreyt: just commited the first docs for PIL.Native, please review them when you have time
06:37 svnbot6 r8199 | stevan++ | PIL.Native.*
06:37 svnbot6 r8199 | stevan++ | - first attempt at documenting the PIL.Native.* modules, mostly
06:37 svnbot6 r8199 | stevan++ |   just rough sketches for now, will rework later (and use proper
06:37 svnbot6 r8199 | stevan++ |   Haddock markup as well)
06:38 stevan_ time for bed now, I will try and do some more tomorrow, $work permitting
06:38 stevan_ adios &
06:40 svnbot6 r8200 | skud++ | Roughed in a couple of introductory bits.  Not sure about the name for Perl5Differences
06:40 svnbot6 r8200 | skud++ | but it'll do for now -- I need somewhere to stick things as I notice them.
06:41 q[Skud] karma skud
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07:07 q[Skud] ok, hometime.
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07:17 svnbot6 r8201 | Darren_Duncan++ |  r1274@Darren-Duncans-Computer:  darrenduncan | 2005-12-12 23:15:03 -0800
07:17 svnbot6 r8201 | Darren_Duncan++ |  /ext/Rosetta-Incubator : added a brand new, never before seen, c150 line SYNOPSIS pod to Rosetta.pm, having a faux example of its use
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07:37 ingy audreyt: thanks for the bit
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07:48 PJF D'oh.  Looked like I missed Skud just in time to suggest 'perldelta' as the traditional place to look for changes.
07:50 GeJ greetings all
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08:04 dduncan audreyt, ditto
08:05 dduncan but I'm not sure what it allows me to do that I couldn't do before ... give bits to others, perhaps?
08:07 Aankhen`` Your status was changed too?
08:07 dduncan mine was ... an hour or three ago
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08:13 svnbot6 r8202 | pjf++ | 'make clean' now removes 'create_this_file' and 'create_this_file2'.  These
08:13 svnbot6 r8202 | pjf++ | files may be left in the top-level directory if a 'make test' is
08:13 svnbot6 r8202 | pjf++ | interrupted or fails.
08:17 Skud pjf: back now. good point, only i think it's a faintly dumb name
08:17 Skud pjf: i mean, yes, that's what it was in p5, but i don't think it was a particularly obvious name.
08:18 Skud OTOH, since it's aimed at people coming from earlier versions... they might expect that.
08:19 PJF Skud: Welcome back!
08:20 PJF 'perldoc perldelta' would be the first thing I'd type in with a fresh new install.  Having said that, it doesn't normally document everything that's changed between two major releases.  So 'perldelta6' may be a pointer to your new file.
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08:24 Skud pjf: you missed the bit earlier about naming
08:25 Skud we're going to go hierarchical.  the flat namespace in perl 5's perldoc is a total mess
08:25 Skud docs will be named Perl6::Doc::Doctype::Topic
08:25 Skud eg Perl6::Doc::Tutorial::Objects
08:25 PJF Skud: I just spotted that.  I'm reading through the docs now.  And yes, I agree that perl5's perldoc does need some layers.
08:25 Skud so you'd do something like p6doc Tutorial::Objects
08:28 svnbot6 r8203 | autrijus++ | * Switch to the much much faster Data.Sequence implementation
08:28 svnbot6 r8203 | autrijus++ |   as part of upcoming GHC 6.5.
08:29 PJF Skud: Are you planning on keeping the existing 'perldoc -f' and 'perldoc -q' semantics, to search in Perl6::Doc::Functioins:: and Perl6::Doc::FAQ:: respectively?
08:30 gaal hi.
08:31 PJF Good localtime, gaal!
08:34 svnbot6 r8204 | autrijus++ | * Add the runSIO form to MonadSTM to make sure that
08:34 svnbot6 r8204 | autrijus++ |   "atomically" works right this time in minilang.
08:34 Skud pjf: hey, check this out... http://nla.gov.au/nla.mus-vn3118296-s1-v.jpg
08:35 Skud pjf: mostly right now i'm just writing docs
08:35 Skud pjf: i figure someone who cares about the tools can deal with that
08:35 gaal hi :) lots of backlog this localmorning
08:36 PJF pjf: Scary, Skud.  Looks almost like something you'd find on a Sydney beach.  ;(
08:36 Skud pjf: quite. presumably that one dates to the trade-unions-vs-kanaka-labour thing from 1900ish
08:38 gaal audreyt: so, should I fix 'is export' first? oh and also: is sub exportation also lexical by default?
08:38 PJF Skud: Took me a while to spot the date.  I thought it read '1980' for a moment.
08:38 Skud the mustaches didn't give it away?
08:41 Skud ok, well, i've had about as much catching up with the news as i can stand
08:41 dduncan Skud, haven't seen that before
08:41 Skud looks like we'll get some rain tonight, which might quieten things down a little
08:42 Skud right now, i feel the desparate urge to curl up with a trashy novel and some chocolate.  i'll be back tomorrow.
08:42 PJF Skud: I sincerely hope that things do quieten down.  The news has been most depressing.
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08:43 webmind depressing ?
08:43 Skud webmind; the sydney riots
08:43 svnbot6 r8205 | autrijus++ | * PIL bootstrapping #1 -- only opaque::send left to do
08:43 svnbot6 r8205 | autrijus++ |   before we can run the boostrap code!
08:43 svnbot6 r8205 | autrijus++ | * Also introduce the idea of an "ObjectSpace" that the user
08:43 svnbot6 r8205 | autrijus++ |   can dump at end of program (which may have holes in it
08:43 svnbot6 r8205 | autrijus++ |   due to GC) and introspect from.
08:43 GeJ PJF: got that on the news... well, it was in german, so I got only the half of it. What started the all thing?
08:43 webmind ah haven't read about those
08:43 webmind was trying to follow the CIA coverup
08:43 Skud webmind: http://smh.com.au/
08:45 PJF GeJ: Bloody-minded intolerance started the whole thing.  Although that's probably not the answery you're looking for.
08:45 svnbot6 r8206 | autrijus++ | * add the missing PIL.Native.Objects
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08:46 Skud some kid on tv said it was because the "lebs kicked soccer balls at hte lifeguards and stole people's towels"
08:46 Skud which is just fucking bizarre
08:46 Skud http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Cronulla_race_riot
08:49 gaal audreyt: so what I was having in mind was that every exportation, including ruleSubDeclaration etc., should make a note instead of pushing the symbol immediately, and then do the actual symbol push via the InitDat thing in the rule for use.
08:51 gaal data InitDat = { symbols :: [(Pad -> Pad)], pragmas :: [Pragma] }
08:52 gaal this is assuming a module has *no* control over the scope of a symbol it exports, and the calling module always gets to determine that; is this correct?
08:52 gaal (doesn't sound very Perlish to me...!)
08:54 gaal also probably Pad -> Pad needs a type, right? :)
08:56 gaal type PadMutator = (Pad -> Pad) ? Or a better name? Or not at all?
08:59 gaal Also, I'm not sure I understand how many pads an Env has. in mkEnv it looks like there's only one pad, envLexical. But looking at Scope suggests there's a Pad for every kind of scope. Does that work because there's also an Env for every scope!?
09:03 dduncan here's something different, by the Writers Guild of America: http://www.productinvasion.com/
09:04 dduncan related is http://www.wga.org/subpage_newsevents.aspx?id=1422
09:05 dduncan related, http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,69775,00.html?tw=wn_tophead_3
09:05 dduncan that is all
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10:25 svnbot6 r8207 | gaal++ | * minor refactoring: type PadMutator = (Pad -> Pad)
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10:51 audreyt stevan_: ping
10:52 audreyt gaal: all "scopes" are in envLexical
10:52 audreyt (or envGlobal)
10:52 audreyt stevan_: I've bootstrapped get_method
10:57 gaal hey audreyt. but where is, for example, the pad for SState?
10:57 gaal envLexical is only SMy, right?
10:58 PJF Night all.  I'm going to try and get some sleep tonight.  Happy hacking.
10:58 PJF has left
10:59 audreyt gaal: also in envLexical
10:59 audreyt but it's not cleared upon reentry -- see reducePad in Eval
11:04 gaal so envLexical holds the concatenation of all pads, and when reentering (reducing again), each new pad is unioned correctly by its type?
11:07 gaal a Pad node in Exp, then, can be thought of as a bunch of pad update requests to a certain scope
11:08 gaal (is it really a bunch? can the parser group several items in this pad? looking....)
11:13 audreyt yes, a bunch
11:13 audreyt because it's unionPad'ed with the existing pad
11:13 audreyt so you can throw in a bunch of pads at once
11:14 gaal I'm still trying to see where this would happen
11:14 gaal my ($x, $y, $z)  ?
11:18 gaal ah, I think I see: eg. ruleVarDeclaration second choice
11:18 gaal (decl, lhs) <- choice ..... do names <- parens . (`sepEndBy` ruleComma) ...
11:18 audreyt good that you see it, because my brain is fried again... it's 10pm, been working nonstop all night :)
11:19 svnbot6 r8208 | autrijus++ | * bootstrapping of ::Class.isa(::Class) is complete.
11:19 svnbot6 r8208 | autrijus++ |   try these in pil shell:
11:19 svnbot6 r8208 | autrijus++ |     ::Class.get_method('get_method')
11:19 svnbot6 r8208 | autrijus++ |     ::Class.add_method('foo', -> $x { self.get_method($x) })
11:19 svnbot6 r8208 | autrijus++ |     ::Class.foo('foo')
11:19 gaal This is starting to click... but I'm pretty sure the spec is going to change (see post to p6l)
11:20 gaal make pil => src/syck/syck_st.c:5:23: error: ghcconfig.h: No such file or directory
11:20 svnbot6 r8209 | autrijus++ | * make SIO a subclass of Functor to save some typing.
11:20 gaal do I need a -dev package?
11:21 audreyt no... a sec
11:22 audreyt hm, maybe you do. do you have something like /usr/local/lib/ghc-6.4.1/include/ghcconfig.h ?
11:22 audreyt I thought ghc will come with a -dev already
11:23 gaal i have it in /usr/lib, not /usr/local/lib
11:23 gaal (debian)
11:23 audreyt nod... that should do
11:24 gaal um, but the include says
11:24 gaal #include "ghcconfig.h"
11:24 audreyt probably a missing -I line
11:24 gaal yeah
11:24 audreyt the main pugs works though?
11:24 gaal yeah
11:24 gaal don't worry about it, i'll chase it
11:25 audreyt ... but I fixed it
11:26 gaal "some definition of fastest" etc. :)
11:26 audreyt try r8210 :)
11:27 gugod___ is now known as gugod
11:27 svnbot6 r8210 | autrijus++ | * pil doesn't depend on syck, so don't pull in syck.
11:27 svnbot6 r8210 | autrijus++ |   reported by gaal++
11:28 gaal same error :(
11:29 gaal I think I may need make clean though. sec
11:30 audreyt perl Makefile.PL again
11:30 audreyt also r8211 :)
11:31 audreyt stevan_: I need help with transcribing the s-exp model or the MetaModel::Bootstrap to the minilang
11:31 svnbot6 r8211 | autrijus++ | * "remember" command history in PIL shell by replaying all previous commands.
11:32 audreyt stevan_: please see src/PIL/Native/Eval.hs line 42
11:32 audreyt addClassMethods
11:32 audreyt that's where the boot code belongs
11:33 audreyt so... any help in transcribing the various stages of boot code into minilang form is appreciated -- once that runs we'll finish boostrapping tomorrow
11:33 audreyt I'll check back ~8hrs from now. good night :)
11:36 gaal night audreyt
11:36 audreyt *wave* &
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12:38 svnbot6 r8212 | gaal++ | * fix `pil' and `pili' targets.
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12:44 fglock what is the status of 'listfix:' for comma and zip operators? it was suggested, but not official, I think
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12:49 meppl guten morgen
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13:02 svnbot6 r8213 | autrijus++ | * Support for closures in Minilang:
13:02 svnbot6 r8213 | autrijus++ |     (-> $x {-> $y {$x.add($y)}}).(3).(4)
13:02 svnbot6 r8213 | autrijus++ | * Also the implicit Y-combinator form of &?SUB:
13:02 svnbot6 r8213 | autrijus++ |     (-> $n {-> &f {
13:02 svnbot6 r8213 | autrijus++ |         $n.eq(0).cond(
13:02 svnbot6 r8213 | autrijus++ |             ->{1},
13:02 svnbot6 r8213 | autrijus++ |             ->{$n.multiply(&f.($n.subtract(1)))}
13:02 svnbot6 r8213 | autrijus++ |         )
13:02 svnbot6 r8213 | autrijus++ |     }.(&?SUB)}).(10)
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13:02 wolverian well, that blew my mind.
13:03 clkao mmm yum
13:04 Alias_ Oh yeah, because anyone understands THAT commit :)
13:04 gaal audreyt: still around? I'm thinking we need a new Scope, SExported
13:04 gaal a module is parsed once, but used many times
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13:04 gaal so currently exporting must be broken
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13:11 gaal Yes it indeed is.
13:11 blm Alias_: Are you there?
13:11 gaal ./pugs -e 'use Ex; say f; package B; use Ex; say f' <= where Ex.pm has 'sub f is export { 42 }'
13:11 audreyt it is broken, and yes I agree (or cache the Export symbols in %INC? anyway a new structure is needed)
13:11 Alias_ yep
13:11 Alias_ (testing, 1, 2, 3)
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13:12 blm Alias_: can you /msg me?
13:12 gaal %INC is interesting... but won't that cause reference counting troubles?
13:13 audreyt gaal: no, because we are not reference counting anymore :) also because the time it's queried in the compiler
13:13 Alias_ did you get that?>
13:13 audreyt not in the runtime
13:13 audreyt so it doesn't affect the runtime behaviour (please keep in mind the separate compilation model)
13:13 blm Alias_: no. Arrghh. This is driving me mad.
13:14 Alias_ What client are you using?
13:14 blm Alias_: Never had a problem with irc before :-(
13:14 blm Using irssi on debian
13:14 audreyt Alias_: you may need to register your nick on freenode
13:14 audreyt /msg nickserv register
13:15 audreyt they banned all /msg for unregistered people
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13:15 gaal mindborne. so just add a "exports" element in the %INC element for this module?
13:15 Alias_ ah
13:15 Alias_ Stupid freenode
13:15 audreyt gaal: prolly, yeah
13:16 gaal okay, I'll see how that works out. weren't you going to sleep? :)
13:16 xern___ has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
13:17 Alias_ ok, and if you forget your nickserv password?
13:17 blm You have to convince an op that you registered the nick.  You can get on with a diff nick
13:17 gaal Alias_: you /msg lilo and ask for it to be reset
13:17 Alias_ God what an ugly system
13:18 audreyt gaal: right, but I started dreaming about static analysis of minilang and discovered I forgot to hack in closure support
13:19 gaal I hate it when that happens :)
13:19 audreyt :)
13:19 Alias_ audreyt: Got that 5-10 minutes?
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13:20 audreyt Alias_: go ahead - I've seen File::sharedir
13:20 Alias_ 2 questions actually
13:20 gaal anyone here vim-savvy? why does :map <F3>   :cn<CR> not work? It does something like ~~~ instead of what I want it to do.
13:20 Alias_ Firstly, what's with dist vs module auto dirs
13:21 Alias_ It would seem that dist share Foo-Bar is the same as module share Foo::Bar
13:21 audreyt yes and it is intentional
13:22 wolverian gaal, worksforme
13:22 Alias_ It is?
13:22 audreyt dist split with '-' and module split with '::' are conflated into the same hierarchy
13:22 Alias_ Well that just plain sucks
13:22 Alias_ Since dist name and module names are supposed to be orthogonal
13:23 audreyt why? is it not conventional that people use the same name for main module and dist?
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13:23 audreyt I don't think it's part of perl 5 module system's design that they are orthogonal
13:24 audreyt (I agree they _should_ be orthogonal, but hindsight is 20/20 etc.)
13:24 Alias_ It's convention, but it's not meant to be related
13:24 Alias_ For example, "bioperl"...
13:25 audreyt if you really want to solve this, introduce an auto/share/ hierarchy
13:25 audreyt for per-module autos
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13:25 audreyt and keep original per-dist ones in place with packlist etc
13:25 gaal wolverian: what does?
13:25 wolverian gaal, :map <F3> :cn<CR>
13:26 * audreyt remembers she's got a plane to catch tomorrow noon
13:26 audreyt Alias_: what's the other question? be quick. :)
13:26 gaal wolverian: oh. the maddening thing is that it *used to* work. maybe putty's screwing it up?
13:26 wolverian gaal, probably
13:27 Alias_ audreyt: Redesigning the <request> part of the PITA-XML to handle multiple languages and install sequences
13:27 audreyt goodie
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13:27 Alias_ So I need to deal with requests in terms of schemes and authorities now/
13:27 Alias_ ?
13:27 Alias_ p5, p6 etc
13:27 fglock audreyt: will 'listfix:Y' replace 'infix:Y'?
13:28 fglock (zip operator)
13:28 gaal yay! changing the Keyboard settings there did the trick :-)
13:28 Alias_ audreyt: Got a URL for the full C<use> format?
13:28 audreyt fglock: no... infix:Y is assoc<list>
13:29 fglock ah, ok
13:29 audreyt Alias_: http://svn.perl.org/perl6/doc/trunk/design/syn/S11.pod
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13:31 Alias_ <request><scheme>p5.makefile</scheme><filename>...</filename><md5sum>...</md5sum><authority>CPAN</authority><authpath>...</authpath></request>
13:31 gaal wolverian: as thanks, take also 'map <S-F3> :cp<CR>' and ':mksession' if you don't know them already :)
13:32 Alias_ I figure something along those general lines
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13:33 audreyt Alias_: sure, that worksforme... I'd probably split into <scheme> and <subscheme> instead of a dot, but it's all bikeshed
13:34 gaal what do you say to finally throwing away the %*INC key = relative filename cruft?
13:34 Alias_ audreyt: From what I can tell, the dot is part of the URI scheme format
13:34 Alias_ audreyt: Like z39.50s, z39.50r, etc
13:35 Alias_ Raw "p5" would do the "use Makefile.PL or Build.PL as you want" and the . dictates a specific installer
13:35 gaal %*INC<My::Module> = { relative_path => 'My/Module.pm', loaded_resource => '/usr/lib/..../My/Module.pm', exports => { '&frob' => ... } }
13:36 audreyt Alias_: oh, you are actually using URI scheme format... sure then, RFC 2396 is your friend
13:36 Alias_ Well, you said "scheme"...
13:36 Alias_ So of course I just assumed ... :)
13:36 audreyt the assumption would be correct :)
13:36 audreyt gaal: I say it makes sense, go ahead :)
13:36 gaal or even go all the way and stipulate a class for this in the Prelude
13:36 Alias_ in which case the . should be fine
13:37 gaal only problem is that it must be tightly coupled with pugs
13:37 gaal so it isn't really wholly defined in the prelude.
13:37 audreyt gaal: sure, but what methods would you throw to it?
13:37 audreyt yeah
13:37 audreyt just keep it a struct for now
13:37 audreyt Alias_: yup.
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13:37 audreyt ingy: I'll release Perl6::Bible. is it okay for me to assume comaintainership?
13:38 gaal ok. (wanted to put it in the prelude so that the prelude can easily define pragmatic modules without undue %*INC hackery)
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13:39 audreyt oh, right, we need support for reexportation
13:39 audreyt use CGI is export;
13:39 audreyt that way Prelude can be decomposed to a number of .pms
13:39 audreyt and is generally sane anyway
13:40 gaal whoa, that's cool. I did horrible hacks to get halfway facades in P5
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13:48 Alias_ audreyt: hmm... S11 is very... conversational.
13:48 stevan_ audreyt: I am grabbing the latest version right now ...
13:49 audreyt stevan_: hey, cool... let me know if it makes sense to you :)
13:49 stevan_ audreyt: I will
13:49 audreyt Alias_: verily, which is why we want a ::Spec instead of a ::SynopsisPlusRanting
13:49 stevan_ shouldnt you be sleeping?
13:49 Alias_ ah
13:49 Alias_ So in brief... the default scheme is "perl5", and the default authority is "cpan" ?
13:50 audreyt for perl5, maybe, but otherwise it's "perl6" :)
13:50 Alias_ right
13:50 Alias_ oh yeah... ok
13:50 Alias_ Maybe my question should then have been, scheme "perl5" and "perl6", and the authority is "cpan"
13:50 audreyt yup
13:51 Alias_ But how does the authority differ per scheme
13:51 stevan_ audreyt: when I "make pil" I am getting this -> src/cbits/fpstring.h:1:19: error: HsFFI.h: No such file or directory
13:51 stevan_ do I need to "make" first?
13:52 audreyt hm, what's your system?
13:52 stevan_ OS X Tiger
13:52 stevan_ I found the file in /usr/local/lib/ghc-6.4.1/include/HsFFI.h
13:52 audreyt gaal reported the same bug
13:52 stevan_ wasnt gaal's the ghcconfig.h?
13:53 audreyt yeah, but same thing
13:53 audreyt I removed syck so you are seeing HsFFI instead
13:54 audreyt fixing
13:57 gaal pil doesn't need cbits either?
13:58 audreyt fixed
13:58 Alias_ audreyt: So is the authority per-scheme?
13:58 audreyt gaal: it does need
13:58 gaal uh, how do I spell s,::,/,g in Haskell?
13:59 gaal without Parsec :-)
14:00 audreyt intersperse "/" . split "::"
14:00 gaal yay, thanks.
14:00 audreyt err, prepend it by (concat .)
14:01 audreyt np :)
14:01 audreyt stevan_: try r8214
14:01 svnbot6 r8214 | autrijus++ | * build syck and cbits with GHC, not with perl.
14:01 svnbot6 r8214 | autrijus++ |   Reported by: gaal++, stevan++
14:02 stevan_ trying right now
14:03 audreyt ingy: let me know if I can make myself comaint of Perl6::Bible, or you'd make me comaint, or release the svn trunk version :)
14:03 stevan_ audreyt: PIL.Native.Object seems to make sense, but i am still drinking my first cup of coffee,.. so I can't be sure ;)
14:03 audreyt ahh... gotta love the timezones.
14:04 gaal gotta love the coffee, too
14:04 xinming has joined #perl6
14:04 * audreyt waves &
14:04 stevan_ (-> $coffee { $coffee.increment().increment() }).()
14:04 audreyt stevan_: good night... hopefully this time for real
14:05 stevan_ audreyt: good night ...close the laptop,.. that might help
14:05 gaal audreyt splits, gaal splits and intersperses
14:05 audreyt stevan_: you can translate the code and assume that &NEW_OPAQUE and &WALKMETH etc is there
14:05 stevan_ ok
14:05 audreyt will try to get it all done before I board the plane tomorrow
14:05 * audreyt waves &
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14:29 trym *yawn*Æ
14:33 gaal yay. vim users, http://haskell.org/hawiki/Vim (the errorformat there is useful)
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14:52 clkao http://nopaste.snit.ch:8001/5851
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14:57 gaal clkao: latest r? I think that was fixed...
14:57 gaal just delete http://nopaste.snit.ch:8001/5851
14:58 gaal and er
14:58 gaal delete src/Pugs/PreludePC.hs that is
14:58 gaal and build again.
14:58 clkao latest. cheers
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15:08 svnbot6 r8215 | kane++ |  r315@coke:  kane | 2005-12-07 13:29:42 +0100
15:08 svnbot6 r8215 | kane++ |  * add alternatives code
15:08 svnbot6 r8215 | kane++ |  * add tests for it
15:08 svnbot6 r8215 | kane++ |  * move the linking section to Installation.pm
15:08 svnbot6 r8215 | kane++ |  * add a test .jib for this purpose
15:08 svnbot6 r8215 | kane++ |  r316@coke:  kane | 2005-12-07 15:35:01 +0100
15:08 svnbot6 r8215 | kane++ |  * change the way package.pm works:
15:08 svnbot6 r8215 | kane++ |      * it now delegates to Package::Source (the old package.pm),
15:08 svnbot6 r8215 | kane++ |          package::binary and package::installed to represent the
15:08 svnbot6 r8215 | kane++ |          3 types of packages we know
15:08 svnbot6 r8215 | kane++ |      * package->new will figure out which type of package is intended
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15:08 svnbot6 r8215 | kane++ |          and build the right object, and set up inheritance
15:08 svnbot6 r8215 | kane++ |      * Installation.pm will return Installed objects
15:08 svnbot6 r8215 | kane++ |  r317@coke:  kane | 2005-12-07 16:50:45 +0100
15:08 svnbot6 r8215 | kane++ |  * make multiple installation dirs work
15:08 svnbot6 r8215 | kane++ |  * add a dir() accessors to Installation.pm
15:08 svnbot6 r8215 | kane++ |  * make Path::Class not export it's damn dir() function all over hte place
15:08 svnbot6 r8215 | kane++ |  * update tests to match
15:08 svnbot6 r8215 | kane++ |  r341@coke:  kane | 2005-12-08 16:04:22 +0100
15:08 svnbot6 r8215 | kane++ |  * add constants for object types
15:08 svnbot6 r8215 | kane++ |  r342@coke:  kane | 2005-12-08 16:10:49 +0100
15:08 svnbot6 r8215 | kane++ |  * use constatns for allow() check
15:08 svnbot6 r8215 | kane++ |  r343@coke:  kane | 2005-12-08 17:05:23 +0100
15:08 kane-xs_ wee
15:09 svnbot6 r8215 | kane++ |  * submit new style config that can deal with dynamic paths
15:09 kane-xs_ clkao++ # defuckifying svk issues
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15:14 gaal argh! what's wrong with this?
15:14 gaal Couldn't match `Exp' against `Val'
15:14 gaal In the expression: VStr $ (decodeUTF8 pathName)
15:15 gaal why's VStr expecting Exp?
15:15 gaal (those parens are redundant, I know)
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15:30 svnbot6 r8216 | fglock++ | * misc/Parser-Mini - rename pil2_* to pil1_*
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15:59 gaal ouch, running make clean instead of make just now really hurt :-( did I mention I wanted ccache for ghc?
16:01 gaal hey, come to think of it if I install a systemwide ccache that should just work!
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16:38 kane-xs_ seen audreyt
16:38 jabbot kane-xs_: I havn't seen audreyt, kane-xs_
16:38 kane-xs_ pff, liar
16:52 gaal kane-xs_: about 3h ago, I think.
16:52 kane-xs_ gaal: and sleeping i assume
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17:03 svnbot6 r8217 | kane++ |  r450@coke:  kane | 2005-12-13 17:59:14 +0100
17:03 svnbot6 r8217 | kane++ |  * fix meta_dir to be an absoulte path -- this will need to be changed to support multiple installations
17:03 svnbot6 r8217 | kane++ |  * fix order issue in meta.info accessor
17:03 svnbot6 r8216 | fglock++ | * misc/Parser-Mini - rename pil2_* to pil1_*
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17:05 svnbot6 r8218 | kane++ |  r451@coke:  kane | 2005-12-13 18:00:02 +0100
17:05 svnbot6 r8218 | kane++ |  * use constants for allow() handling
17:05 svnbot6 r8218 | kane++ |  * update $inst->available upon registration
17:05 svnbot6 r8219 | kane++ |  r452@coke:  kane | 2005-12-13 18:00:49 +0100
17:05 svnbot6 r8219 | kane++ |  * use constants for allow handling
17:05 svnbot6 r8219 | kane++ |  * use new style config paths
17:05 svnbot6 r8219 | kane++ |  * fill in basic uninstall() with podded out code from prototype
17:05 svnbot6 r8220 | kane++ |  r453@coke:  kane | 2005-12-13 18:01:36 +0100
17:05 svnbot6 r8220 | kane++ |  * make install() return a package::installed
17:05 svnbot6 r8220 | kane++ |  * fix silly typo
17:05 svnbot6 r8221 | kane++ |  r454@coke:  kane | 2005-12-13 18:02:01 +0100
17:05 svnbot6 r8221 | kane++ |  * let JIB::Package accept arbitrary arguments to pass on to underlying classes* let JIB::Package accept arbitrary arguments to pass on to underlying classes* let JIB::Package accept arbitrary arguments to pass on to underlying classes* let JIB::Package accept arbitrary arguments to pass on to underlying classes* let JIB::Package accept arbitrary arguments to pass on to underlying classes* let JIB::Package accept arbitrary arguments to p
17:08 fglock "repeat something over and over again until it becomes true"
17:08 svnbot6 r8222 | kane++ |  r455@coke:  kane | 2005-12-13 18:02:38 +0100
17:08 svnbot6 r8222 | kane++ |  * prefix got added by someone to the sample .info file -- this broke the test
17:08 svnbot6 r8223 | kane++ |  r456@coke:  kane | 2005-12-13 18:02:58 +0100
17:08 svnbot6 r8223 | kane++ |  * better installed() tests
17:08 svnbot6 r8224 | kane++ |  r457@coke:  kane | 2005-12-13 18:03:11 +0100
17:08 svnbot6 r8224 | kane++ |  * use new style config paths
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17:16 fglock ?eval Array.new.push(1)
17:16 evalbot_8197 is now known as evalbot_8224
17:16 evalbot_8224 Error: Can't modify constant item: VUndef
17:17 fglock what's wrong with this?
17:19 fglock ?eval [].push(3,4)
17:19 evalbot_8224 2
17:20 fglock this is weird too - it doesn't return a list, even in list context '@a=...'
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17:21 wolverian in perl5 it returns the array's new size.
17:21 wolverian in list context, too :)
17:21 wolverian (I don't know how that's in any way useful.)
17:29 xinming fglock: hmm, for slurp stdin, the "perfect" version is `** $*IN.slurp` :-)
17:29 svnbot6 r8225 | yiyihu++ | Change slurp stdin /~list($*IN)/ or /~$*IN.slurp/ to /** $*IN.slurp/, Since ** operator is implemented.
17:30 fglock xinming: thanks!
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17:30 fglock xinming: I guess stringification forces ** context, since strings are non-lazy by default
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17:31 xinming fglock: as, said in synopsis, in string context, each element in list will add a space before the next one,
17:31 fglock xinming: right
17:32 xinming fglock: though, we can use ~list($*IN).as("%s", '');
17:32 xinming fglock: But the problem here is, It might take more cpu circle. :-/
17:34 xinming slurp happens lazilly
17:34 xinming so ** will force flat the list
17:34 xinming All list contexts are lazy by default. They still flatten eventually, but only when forced to. You have to use unary ** to get a non-lazy flattening list context (that is, to flatten immediately like Perl 5).
17:34 xinming in synopsis 9
17:36 fglock but how this changes the addition of spaces?
17:38 xinming fglock: this are in two context, slurp happens lazilly, and return a string, So, we force slurp to eval immediately.
17:38 fglock audreyt: re minilanguage - '[].push(3,4)' doesn't return a list in pugs
17:38 fglock xinming: such that it returns a single string?
17:38 xinming fglock: yes
17:39 xinming but need **
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18:07 fglock xinming: ./pugs -e ' my $s = ~ $*IN.slurp; print $s ' - reads a line and prints it, like if the string was lazy?
18:08 fglock ./pugs -e ' my $s = ~ $*IN.slurp; print "[$s]" ' - confirms this: it only prints "]" after ctrl-d
18:10 fglock and it doesn't add spaces
18:14 fglock so we have some kind of lazy string here
18:27 gaal could someone with a built latest pugs please run t/data_types/flattening.t and tell me if it dies?
18:28 gaal or t/builtins/want.t
18:28 ingy audreyt: go ahead on p6b
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18:31 fglock gaal: 'not ok 4 - scalar is not implicitly array # TODO bug'
18:31 fglock r8090
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18:38 gaal fglock: there've been a few commits since :-)
18:39 gaal I'm getting crashes on missing .elem, .splice, etc. on all sorts of tests, and I want to know if it's my fault since I've been hacking exportation a bit.
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18:44 fglock gaal: I'm recompiling - it should be ready in a few mins
18:47 stevan_ fglock: the mini-language is not the same as pugs
18:47 stevan_ you have to make pili to get the mini-lang repl
18:48 stevan_ (at least I think so, cause I have not yet been able to get it to complie)
18:49 fglock stevan: yes, but it would be nice if it would be valid p6
18:49 fglock and it is not far from that
18:50 fglock and if it would be easily parsed, we could have a parrot compiler soon
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18:52 stevan_ fglock: I am not sure it matters if it is valid p6 or not
18:53 stevan_ it is meant to be embedded deep within, and not relevant outside of it's own context
18:53 fglock gaal: No such method: "&elems", using r8225
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18:56 stevan_ fglock: the idea is that if you can implement the peices needed for the mini-lang, then the mini-lang source can be shared
18:56 stevan_ so we would not target parrot so much as Parrot would be the host for htis
18:57 * stevan_ needs to write this stuff down somewhere
18:58 fglock stevan_: there are some advantages of making it a subset of p6
18:59 fglock you will be able to use the p6 debugger when it's available :)
19:01 stevan_ fglock: true
19:01 stevan_ well I know audreyt is trying to keep it "pure" ,.. so maybe it will end up being Featherweight P6
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19:05 fglock re '[].push(3,4)' returning a scalar in pugs - maybe it should return an Array when in list context
19:06 stevan_ fglock: that syntax exists mostly because we have no variables and no constructors
19:06 stevan_ it is not ideal
19:07 stevan_ I think audreyt hacked in a [3, 4] version recently too
19:07 stevan_ ?eval Array.new().push(3, 4)
19:07 evalbot_8224 is now known as evalbot_8225
19:07 evalbot_8225 Error: Can't modify constant item: VUndef
19:08 stevan_ ?eval [].push(3, 4)
19:08 evalbot_8225 2
19:08 stevan_ ?eval [].push(3, 4, 5)
19:08 evalbot_8225 3
19:08 stevan_ ?eval ().push(3, 4, 5)
19:08 evalbot_8225 Error: Can't modify constant item: VUndef
19:09 stevan_ ?eval Array.new
19:09 evalbot_8225 Array.new()
19:09 stevan_ ?eval my @x = Array.new;
19:09 evalbot_8225 [Array.new(),]
19:09 gaal rehi
19:09 stevan_ hey gaal :)
19:09 gaal fglock: thanks v much!
19:09 stevan_ is now known as stevan
19:09 fglock np
19:10 gaal stevan: that stevan_ guy was just here. i followed your advice and didn't talk to him.
19:10 stevan gaal: yes, best to ignore him :P
19:10 stevan although I think he is catching on,.. he seems to disapear when you arrive
19:11 gaal i'll ci my subversive %*INC change once i finish this divine falafel.
19:11 * stevan wants a falafel too
19:11 fglock mmm falafel
19:12 * fglock does his own falafel
19:12 fglock it is hard to find falafel here
19:12 gaal stevan: tell your wife there's falafel right around the corner where I live :-)
19:12 stevan that will do her no good :)
19:12 stevan but I will try
19:13 stevan I almost got her to say maybe last night
19:14 gaal data YAPC = Maybe Falafel
19:14 stevan is that a lazy falafel??
19:14 gaal actually it's a type error, this is not Just some falafel you know.
19:15 stevan :)
19:15 stevan as long as yuval doesnt set us all ablaze cooking it,..
19:15 gaal uh oh, boiling oil...!
19:16 stevan we will let him handle the tahini... thats pretty safe :)
19:16 gaal yeah, can't threaten us with too much garlic
19:16 stevan :)
19:36 svnbot6 r8226 | gaal++ | * Make %*INC more useful. Keys are now Perlish names, not relative paths
19:36 svnbot6 r8226 | gaal++ |   to filesystem resources. Values are (for now) a simple hash with
19:36 svnbot6 r8226 | gaal++ |   reasonable memebers (the relative and absolute paths); this will
19:36 svnbot6 r8226 | gaal++ |   eventually evolve to a Module description object of some sort. This
19:36 svnbot6 r8226 | gaal++ |   change needs to be specced.
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21:58 audreyt gaal: it may make sense to implement this protocol: http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/view/926
22:07 Skud morning, audrey.  just heading into the office.  see you in an hour... i had documentation dreams last night, argh!
22:08 audreyt hopefully it was still an enjoyable dream?
22:08 kane_ has quit IRC ()
22:08 audreyt I had serializable continuation dreams last night.
22:11 lisppaste3 has joined #perl6
22:12 obra audreyt: oo
22:12 obra I really like them. they make life better.
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22:13 svnbot6 r8227 | clkao++ | Initial import of my jsperl hacks.
22:14 gaal morning audrey! I am just going to bed :)
22:14 * clkao grins
22:16 kolibrie has quit IRC ("leaving")
22:16 audreyt gaal: hey :) did you figure out the VStr problem?
22:17 gaal I think GHC was giving me a wrong line number -- I wasn't casting correctly the *next* line
22:17 gaal it was one of those "couldn't be!" bugs
22:17 gaal so I switched the order of the lines
22:18 gaal and got the compiler error on the same line, this time the right one, that is to say the one with the wrong code
22:18 gaal fixed the code, then it compiled.
22:18 gaal then I extracted the silly cast to a function :-)
22:19 gaal I think I'll put off reading that ltu link for tomorrow. too bad there's $work though :)
22:21 gaal Also I'm hoping @Larry respond to my p6l query because I bet there'll be some changes there eventually. The sooner the better as far as I'm concerned...
22:21 hexmode has joined #perl6
22:21 gaal anymoose, gaal gaals. &
22:24 audreyt cool
22:24 audreyt sweet dreams, gaal
22:26 clkao ./pugs -CJS -e 'my @a = (1,2,3,4); pop @a; say +@a'
22:26 clkao i wonder why this doesn't work. is it pil problem?
22:26 clkao 2 more parameters passed to sub &JS::Root::pop than expected (2)
22:35 audreyt it worksforme.
22:36 audreyt [audrey]~/work/pugs$ ./pugs -BJS -e 'my @a = (1,2,3,4); pop @a; sa
22:36 audreyt 3
22:37 * audreyt goes packing
22:38 DesreveR has quit IRC ("sleeping")
22:39 clkao hmmm
22:43 justatheory has joined #perl6
22:48 stevan audreyt: ping
22:48 svnbot6 r8228 | clkao++ | clkao:~/work/pugs/perl5/PIL2JS clkao$ ./runjs.pl --js=util/jsperl -e 'say $*OS'
22:48 svnbot6 r8228 | clkao++ | darwin
22:48 * clkao grins
22:48 clkao it's no longer 'browser'!!!
22:49 audreyt stevan: pong
22:49 stevan audreyt: still cannot get make pil to work
22:49 audreyt stevan: what's the err?
22:49 stevan this time it is FastPacked String giving issues
22:50 stevan /tmp/ghc1693.hc:8:22: error: fpstring.h: No such file or directory
22:50 stevan fpstring.h is in /src/cbits/
22:50 audreyt fixing
22:50 stevan horray !!!!
22:50 audreyt fixed
22:51 audreyt try again?
22:51 stevan trying ...
22:52 stevan while I am waiting for this to retry,..
22:52 svnbot6 r8229 | autrijus++ | * fix build problem for Data.FastPackedCString by pulling in src/cbits
22:52 stevan how can I test the mini-lang?
22:53 stevan Test.pm in the mini-lang is not possible (well, not without serious amount of effort)
22:54 tewk_ How about a Test.pm that feeds expressions into pili and compares the result?
22:54 audreyt that's certainly a good idea
22:54 stevan tewk_: yes, that is probably the right approach
22:54 audreyt currently we can't bind $*OUT there
22:54 stevan like Parrot::Test does with PIR tests
22:55 audreyt as the bootstrap is not yet complete
22:55 stevan audreyt++ # we have PIL>
22:55 tewk_ I'll take a stab at it.
22:55 audreyt another idea is to add a .say to each value
22:55 stevan tewk_++
22:55 audreyt or .dump
22:56 audreyt or .trace
22:56 stevan .dump is good
22:56 * clkao implements opendir
22:57 audreyt ooh, io in javascript
22:57 clkao YES
22:58 clkao see my last commit :) $*OS
22:59 tewk_ Is there a Perl6::Test?
22:59 audreyt implemented
23:00 stevan ok, I must run for dinner, but I will be back later this evening
23:00 * stevan &
23:02 clkao compiling prelude is too slow
23:02 clkao how do i do development?
23:03 clkao SyntaxError: syntax error at line 34409: )
23:03 clkao great, how to debug?
23:05 tewk_ audreyt: make pili gives  /usr/lib/libpthread.so: invalid ELF header
23:05 tewk_ because it's a ldconfig script on some platforms
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23:07 audreyt fixing
23:07 tewk_ linking it to /lib/tls/libpthread.so.0 fixes, is there some way around that?
23:07 tewk_ Loading object (dynamic) pthread ... failed.
23:07 tewk_ same thing for libc
23:07 tewk_ is now known as tewk
23:08 audreyt stevan: I think the .trace form is good enough for harness outside the minilang
23:09 audreyt tewk: there's no Perl6::Test afaics... we've been self hosting the tests using ext/Test
23:09 svnbot6 r8230 | autrijus++ | * PIL: support for "./pil -e code" to facilitate testing.
23:09 svnbot6 r8230 | autrijus++ | * PIL.Native.Eval: support for "$obj.trace()" form that returns the $obj
23:09 svnbot6 r8230 | autrijus++ |   but meanwhile prettyprints itself (and any arguments) to output.
23:09 audreyt tewk: see if r8231 worksforyou
23:09 audreyt do whatever needed to work around it in Makefile.PL... I'll check back from airport :)
23:09 * audreyt waves
23:10 obra  later
23:10 svnbot6 r8231 | autrijus++ | * try to fix "pili"
23:10 q[Skud] ok. back.
23:10 q[Skud] i'm not sure if this is a downside or an upside to moving desks... i get far more random perl questions at work now.
23:12 audreyt tewk: I've added some canonization to r8233; that should work for harness (I hope)
23:12 svnbot6 r8232 | autrijus++ | * in trace output, replace lines with spaces.
23:12 svnbot6 r8233 | autrijus++ | * also squash whitespaces in .trace forms.  Try this:
23:12 svnbot6 r8233 | autrijus++ |     ./pil -e '::Class.trace; nil'
23:12 audreyt &
23:19 tewk audreyt: thanks
23:23 Alias_ has joined #perl6
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23:26 * Alias_ starts the heavy exhaustive testing process
23:26 Alias_ parsing 70 character random strings, 90,000 iterations
23:26 Alias_ ugh
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23:32 Alias_ # Looks like you failed 1 test of 90002.
23:32 Alias_ DAMN IT! FOILED AGAIN!
23:36 audreyt it's nice to see that PPI is adopting QuickCheck :)
23:36 Alias_ of course, debugging is an issue
23:36 Alias_ # '/gV1 [[f_]^{$!~=wc Vy$\nW^<0:)&::'z[f?=\n9+xV^{f.$:+;&{,c=z8]:),W|rc\t:_\\': Tokenizer returned an error
23:36 wilx Hehe.
23:36 wilx Nice :)
23:36 audreyt QuickCheck has a "shorten"
23:37 audreyt you can cut down substrings from both sides
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23:37 Alias_ QuickCheck?
23:37 audreyt until it exhibits the error with shortest substring
23:37 Alias_ how interesting
23:37 audreyt Alias_: haskell's random-input-based testing
23:37 Alias_ yes yes, what an interesting idea
23:37 audreyt Test::LectroTest on CPAN does something like it.
23:38 * audreyt runs to airport -- see ya! &
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