Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2005-12-14

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:02 clkao seen ibleach
00:02 jabbot clkao: I havn't seen ibleach, clkao
00:03 rafl clkao: Do you mean iblech?
00:03 clkao ya
00:03 rafl clkao: aka Ingo Blechschmidt.
00:03 rafl clkao: He's not that active on IRC but he answers mails in <24h normally.
00:03 clkao ok, thansk
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00:04 clkao trying to find out how jsbackend returns a perl6 object
00:05 rafl iblech is the right person to ask that, indeed.
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00:12 q[Skud] what's perl6's equivalent for $#array?
00:13 Alias_ @array.something
00:13 q[Skud] i got that far :)
00:13 Alias_ ah
00:14 q[Skud] it's not length, that's string-only
00:14 integral eval: my @a = (1, 2, 3); $#a;
00:14 integral ?eval my @a = (1, 2, 3); $#a;
00:14 q[Skud] and i can't find anything in S29
00:14 evalbot_8225 is now known as evalbot_8233
00:14 evalbot_8233 Error:  unexpected "#" expecting "::"
00:14 buu ?eval @x=1..4; @x.length
00:14 evalbot_8233 Error: Undeclared variable: "@x"
00:14 buu ?eval my @x=1..4; @x.length
00:14 evalbot_8233 Error: No such method: "&length"
00:14 buu ?eval my @x=1..4; @x.keys
00:14 evalbot_8233 (0, 1, 2, 3)
00:14 buu heh
00:14 rafl elems?
00:14 buu ?eval my @x=1..4; @x.elems
00:14 evalbot_8233 4
00:14 rafl yay!
00:14 buu eval: 1
00:15 buu hrm
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00:15 buu Yay!
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00:15 integral ?eval my @a = (1, 2, 3); @a.end
00:15 evalbot_8233 2
00:15 integral (the trick is to grep ../src/Pugs/Prim.hs for elems, then go up one line...)
00:16 stevan_ ?eval my @a = (1, 2, 3); +@a;
00:16 evalbot_8233 3
00:16 q[Skud] ok, elems it is.
00:16 integral q[Skud]: umm, that's not the same as $#a, @a.end is the same as $#a.
00:16 q[Skud] oh, right.
00:16 q[Skud] sorry. i am not quite awake here
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00:19 q[Skud] huh.
00:19 q[Skud] here's a slightly wacky thing.
00:20 q[Skud] say "Sorted: ", @animals.sort;
00:20 q[Skud] say "Reversed: ", @animals.reverse;
00:20 q[Skud] Sorted: aardvark bat bear cow dog zebra
00:20 q[Skud] Reversed: zebraaardvarkcowdogbatbear
00:20 integral heh
00:21 q[Skud] i presume that's not meant to happen.
00:21 integral it's something todo with arrays vs. lists
00:22 integral the sort seems to be working with an array, but the reverse with a list
00:22 q[Skud] yeah.
00:24 integral curiously, ~@a.sort and ~@a.reverse produce a spaced string each
00:26 q[Skud] ok, you'll have to excuse me if i kind of blink and go "duhhhh..." like i'm a bit short on neural function here, because i only started playing with this yesterday.
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00:26 integral np :-)
00:27 q[Skud] just kinda starting as a "dumb user" and working through perlintro trying to figure out what each thing there is, in perl 6 idiom.
00:28 q[Skud] errrr. how do i declare a hash and access one of the elements?  like, in perl5, it would be $days{'February'}
00:29 q[Skud] ah, got it
00:29 q[Skud] i hadn't quoted the key
00:31 integral yeah, {} doesn't autoquote now.  You need to use <> or <<>> to get that: %hash<<$interpolated>>, %hash<notinterpolated>
00:31 integral (<> and <<>> are like the old qw)
00:32 q[Skud] ok, but i can still say %days{'February'}
00:34 integral yes.
00:34 integral it's so that {} is always more like a closure
00:37 * clkao implmemented slurp
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00:45 buu Is there an ioctl function in pugs?
00:46 buu ?eval ioctl
00:46 evalbot_8233 Error: No such sub: "&ioctl"
00:46 rafl buu: No. Not yet.
00:47 integral if it's in System.POSIX, it should be a trivial exercise to add :-)  I think there was a tutorial on the wiki at one point
00:47 buu Bummer =[
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00:59 clkao runjs is printing 1..0 for some reason
00:59 clkao that looks like skipall
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01:07 svnbot6 r8234 | skud++ | Some new stuff I encountered.
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01:09 svnbot6 r8235 | skud++ | Errr, lots of new stuff.  Intro embiggened.  Differences likewise.  Moved p5 stuff into a
01:09 svnbot6 r8235 | skud++ | subdir.
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01:14 clkao http://nopaste.snit.ch:8001/5868
01:14 * clkao grins
01:14 svnbot6 r8236 | clkao++ | Implement slurp() with Perl5/IO::File.
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01:57 svnbot6 r8237 | clkao++ | * Add --run to runjs.pl, supporting js, jspm, jssm.
01:57 svnbot6 r8237 | clkao++ | * Add --perl5 to runjs.pl, which initialises perl5 related
01:57 svnbot6 r8237 | clkao++ |   functions for jspm.
01:57 svnbot6 r8237 | clkao++ | * Move stuff from jsperl to PIL2JS/JSPM.
02:23 tewk Does pugs support here docs?  can someone point me to a synopsis or test example?
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02:43 meppl gute nacht
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02:45 buu Stupid perl5
02:45 buu Scary fucking vodoo magic.
02:45 sili_ what
02:46 meppl its technic
02:46 meppl no voodoo
02:46 buu Lies.
02:46 sili_ just wait until i finish this parrot lisp.
02:46 buu meppl: I'm trying to make C use perl file handles.
02:47 meppl hm
02:47 meppl i would like xs for perl6
02:47 meppl have
02:48 meppl but im very patient
02:50 meppl for c++
02:51 meppl *sleeping*
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03:32 Andy obra: I can't /msg you becaue I'm not registered.  See AIM.
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05:28 sri_ audreyt: please increment the version of Module::Install::Admin in the next release, Catalyst has a prereq on M::I
05:29 gaal morning all...
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06:12 blm morning gaal
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06:14 avar pugs -e 'my Num @a = 0..Inf; say @a[100]' takes forever;/
06:14 blm Does perl 6 use lazy evaluation like Haskell?
06:15 blm Sorry is it supposed to do lazy evaluation?
06:17 avar it is
06:17 avar which is why it shouldn't take forever
06:17 avar (last I read the specs)
06:21 sili__ there was talk about laziness and Inf on the lists recently
06:21 sili__ i'm not sure how/what was implemented in pugs
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06:44 blm Is audrey around?
06:45 Alias_ Goddam it... PPI still leaking despite %PARENT hash being cleaned up properly
06:45 blm Hi Alias_
06:45 Alias_ heya
06:45 blm Is Audrey en route?
06:45 Alias_ hmmm about 20 megabytes per 25,000 documents
06:45 Alias_ Probably
06:46 blm Do you know Module::Install?
06:46 Alias_ yep
06:47 blm Trying to install it from CPAN and it seems to depend on Module::Scandeps.  When I try to install Module::Scandeps it seems to find the old version of M::I and bombs out "Can't locate method "_top" via package "PACK001"
06:48 Alias_ hmm... dunno
06:48 blm at Module::Insall::Base line 52
06:48 Alias_ The system one or the bundled one
06:48 blm Might move old Module::Install out of way.
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06:50 blm Get this error! says /usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl​/5.8.7/Module/Install/Base.pm line 52 and there is no dir /usr/local/lib/perl5.
06:50 blm I don't like cygwin :-(
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06:51 Alias_ Personally I'm putting my bets on PXPerl being sane
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06:52 blm What is PXPerl? (excuse my ignorance :-) )
06:52 Alias_ An attempt to write a sane Windows Perl install
06:52 blm Excellent!
06:52 Alias_ One that doesn't rely on a proprietary PPM package
06:53 blm You on win32 much?
06:53 Alias_ Win32 desktop, Linux server
06:53 avar how do I access <obj:Time::Local> in perl6? doing pugs -e 'say for localtime'
06:53 blm Does par work?
06:54 avar perl -le 'print for localtime' would work
06:54 Alias_ Reasonably well for bundling applications
06:54 blm Includes dependancies?
06:54 Alias_ I think so...
06:54 blm Cool
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07:32 svnbot6 r8238 | tewk++ | Simple perl6 test harness for pil.
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07:47 avar how can I see which rfc's got accepted?
07:48 avar http://dev.perl.org/perl6/rfc/39.html <- I like this one for example, but I don't think it got accepted;/
07:49 nothingmuch avar: every apocalypse
07:49 nothingmuch they list the RFCs which got considered
07:49 nothingmuch as rejected or accepted
07:50 nothingmuch but most RFCs were munged
07:50 nothingmuch IMHO 'say' is much more parsable than >foo<, too
07:50 nothingmuch and that mixes up with hyper operators and stuff
07:50 avar select STDERR;
07:50 nothingmuch you can define it though:
07:50 avar say >"goes to -err and -out"<;
07:51 avar I just thought it was neat as an inverse of <>
07:51 nothingmuch &circumfix:{'>', '<'} ::= say;
07:52 avar does that work in pugs?
07:57 nothingmuch let's try
07:57 nothingmuch ?eval &circumfix:{'>', '<'} ::= &say; >
07:57 nothingmuch ?eval &circumfix:{'>', '<'} ::= &say; >"foo"<;
07:57 nothingmuch ?eval "foo"
07:57 nothingmuch hmm... i think it's dead
07:57 evalbot_8233 is now known as evalbot_8238
07:57 evalbot_8238 Error:  unexpected ">" expecting ";", statements or end of input
07:57 evalbot_8238 Error:  unexpected ">" expecting ";", statements or end of input
07:57 * nothingmuch is not really in touch with pugs lately
07:57 evalbot_8238 "foo"
07:57 nothingmuch been having a "useful" phase (as opposed to an "interesting" phase) - lots of Catalyst work
07:58 avar nothingmuch: I tried, it was more of a "should it work or did I fuck anything up?" question;)
07:59 nothingmuch avar: i guess the grammar isn't dynamic yet
07:59 nothingmuch but it will work
07:59 nothingmuch we have an internals lecture at work
07:59 nothingmuch see you
07:59 avar cya
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08:12 Skud evening pjf
08:12 PJF Good evening Skud!  How are you this fine day?
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08:13 svnbot6 r8239 | yiyihu++ | Renew the broken links in series of `01Overview.html`.
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08:26 PJF Good day, blm.
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09:37 PJF Skud:  Wow!  Lots more documentation.
09:38 Alias_ PPI 1.07 is uploaded!
09:38 Alias_ Now it can parse line noise!
09:38 wolverian yay :) Alias++
09:39 Alias_ I leaks a bit still...
09:39 Alias_ 1k per document I think
09:39 Alias_ But I can certainly confirm it isn't me leaking circulars now
09:39 Alias_ So it's now someone else's problem
09:41 PJF Congrats, Alias.
09:41 Alias_ At least it's editor-compatible now
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10:05 Alias_ Which takes a surprisingly large load off my mind
10:07 wolverian editor-compatible?
10:07 Alias_ As in you can type any old shit and it won't crash the parser
10:07 wolverian oh, okay. I think I see.
10:07 wolverian right. :)
10:07 Alias_ Which is a big step
10:07 wolverian so, where's the vim plugin?
10:08 Alias_ My queue now is basically, 1. Wait for PXPerl to release 2. Get PCE actually running 3. Write Perl::Editor 4. Then you can write a vim plugin
10:08 Alias_ The parser in it's standalone is surprisingly useless :)
10:08 wolverian PCE?
10:08 Alias_ Editors need the next layer of support infrastructure too, caching and metrics and transforms, oh my!
10:09 Alias_ The cross platform pure Perl Wx+Scintilla Perl editor
10:09 Alias_ Which has some pretty big issues, but I'm helping the author to work through them, then I'm going to use it as my base platform for the refactoring Perl editor grant
10:09 Alias_ Anyways
10:09 * Alias_ home
10:10 Alias_ (It also means you can now parse Perl 5 into pugs btw)
10:10 Alias_ audreyt: You want 1.107. It's over to you now.
10:11 wolverian right. this is exciting :) Alias++
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10:38 rafl Is there a freenode server that listens to a port != 6667? My ISP seems to block that port..
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10:46 avar does perl6 have some quick way to create accessors like ruby?
10:48 wolverian has $.foo;
10:48 wolverian see S12
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10:57 kane_ rafl: cgi:irc installations would work.. like this one: http://webchat.xs4all.nl/cgi-bin/ircnet/irc.cgi
10:58 integral feather already runs a CGI:IRC :)
10:58 rafl kane_: I actually don't want to use CGI:IRC but irssi and not on feather but on my host :-)
10:58 integral rafl: most freenode boxes listen on a few ports around 6667, something like 6665-9 I think
10:59 rafl integral: OK, I'll try that.
10:59 kane_ rafl: yeah, this was more 'last resort'
10:59 kane_ you could tunnel it via feather too btw
11:00 rafl kane_: That's what came to my mind as well. But I'll try using IPv6 first.
11:00 kane_ bbl, off to the office
11:00 integral 6to4++
11:02 rafl integral: Do you know a good tunnel provider? sixx maybe?
11:03 integral I don't.   I have decent 6to4 access so I just use that
11:12 avar how do I call my own method within a class, self.mehod() doesn't work (as seen in S12)
11:13 wolverian self.method or just .method if $_ =:= self (as is the default in methods)
11:14 wolverian ?eval class Foo { method bar { "hi" } method baz { .bar } } Foo.new.baz
11:14 evalbot_8238 is now known as evalbot_8239
11:14 evalbot_8239 "hi"
11:15 PJF ?eval class Foo { method bar {"hi"} method baz { self.bar } } Foo.new.baz
11:15 evalbot_8239 "hi"
11:15 PJF ?eval class Foo { method bar {"hi"} method baz { self.bar() } } Foo.new.baz
11:15 evalbot_8239 "hi"
11:16 PJF Good.  You had me worried for a moment there, avar. ;)
11:17 svnbot6 r8240 | asavige++ | Evil documentation plan (first cut based on Audrey caffeine free coke brain-dump)
11:18 avar ?eval role P {method lang { "poo" }} class AE does P {method hello() { self.lang }} AE.new.hello
11:18 evalbot_8239 Error: No compatible subrountine found: "&lang"
11:18 avar ?eval class P {method lang { "poo" }} class AE is P {method hello() { self.lang }} AE.new.hello
11:18 evalbot_8239 Error: No compatible subrountine found: "&lang"
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11:19 avar ?eval class AE is P {method lang() { "poo"} method hello() { self.lang }} AE.new.hello
11:19 evalbot_8239 Can't exec "./pugs": Permission denied at examples/network/evalbot//evalhelper.p5 line 46.
11:19 avar ?eval class AE is P {method lang() { "poo"} method hello() { self.lang }} AE.new.helloo
11:19 evalbot_8239 Can't exec "./pugs": Permission denied at examples/network/evalbot//evalhelper.p5 line 46.
11:19 PJF Oh my god!  You killed evalbot!
11:19 avar ?eval class AE is P {method lang() { "poo"} method hello() { self.lang }} say AE.new.lang
11:19 evalbot_8239 is now known as evalbot_8240
11:19 evalbot_8240 OUTPUT[poo ] bool::true
11:21 pasteling "avar" at 212.30.222.56 pasted "woo" (26 lines, 550B) at http://sial.org/pbot/14952
11:21 avar *** No compatible subroutine found: "&self""
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11:31 rafl avar: my $langs = self.langs; looks wrong.
11:32 rafl Huh.. no. It doesn't.
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11:47 PJF Good evening Andrew.
11:48 asavige hi PJF Audrey left Sydney at 1:00 pm on China Airlines flight C152
11:48 asavige should have just arrived in taipei about now
11:48 PJF I have no doubt we'll see her active on IRC again shortly then. ;)
11:49 asavige wow, skud has hit this channel like a ... skud missile ;-)
11:49 integral and written lots of documentation!
11:49 asavige she is putting me to shame (though I just uploaded Audrey's brain-dump evil plan)
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12:00 PJF Night all.  I seem to have landed myself with real work for the next couple of weeks, and have to sleep at awkward times as a result.  Happy hacking.
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12:09 Odin-LAP avar: Hmm. Ertu að elta mig? :p
12:10 avar maður mætti spurja þig af því sama!
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12:10 Odin-LAP avar: Ég kom á undan. ;)
12:11 avar viss? Ég hef ekki verið hérna í einhvern tíma
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12:11 avar ég mun hinsvegar aldrei elta þig á #emacs ;)
12:11 Odin-LAP Haha.
12:11 Odin-LAP Viss?
12:12 avar haha
12:12 avar já
12:16 avar haha
12:17 avar $ pugs -CParrot -e 'say "foo"'|wc -l
12:17 avar 355
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12:17 avar 3558
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12:43 meppl guten morgen
12:43 GeJ servus
12:46 clkao nothingmuch: did you mention there's a tapmatrix diff util or something like tha?
13:03 meppl good morning gej
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13:57 nothingmuch clkao: ?
13:57 nothingmuch oh
13:57 nothingmuch yes
13:57 nothingmuch i have that
13:57 nothingmuch i'll talk to you about it when I get home
13:57 nothingmuch http://nothingmuch.wooblin​g.org/Test-TAP-HTMLMatrix
13:57 nothingmuch http://nothingmuch.woobling.org/Test-TAP-Model
13:57 nothingmuch get those darcs repos
13:57 nothingmuch they have working code
13:58 nothingmuch (example.pl has dummy failures)
13:59 nothingmuch i have to go pick up my mom from the univ
13:59 nothingmuch ciao!
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14:03 xinming how to get a line from stdin, and process it, and get another line?
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14:17 * pd clocks pugs at less than 2000x slower than perl5, woo hoo!
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15:20 avar 1 for =<>; ?
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15:30 gaal process(=$*IN); $next = =$*IN;
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15:30 gaal process($^line) for =$*IN;
15:30 lisppaste3 has joined #perl6
15:31 xinming try it in pugs first please
15:32 gaal ./pugs -e 'print ">>> $_" for =$*IN'
15:32 gaal this works
15:32 gaal but you may be Suffering from Buffering <tm>.
15:33 xinming for =$*IN -> $line { print "myline: " ~ $line;}
15:33 Khisanth that works
15:33 Khisanth too :P
15:34 xinming the problem is, It will hold all input in a "temperary" list, and after you enter EOF, it then process the list
15:34 Khisanth eh?
15:34 xinming Khisanth: You can save it in a file, and run it
15:34 Khisanth well I guess laziness isn't implemented yet?
15:34 gaal yes, IO buffering.
15:35 xinming gaal: How to get rid out of this?
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15:35 gaal eval '$| = 1', :lang<perl5>
15:35 gaal just kidding :-)
15:36 gaal good question. I wonder if getContents or whatsits name can be configured to work in line buffered mode; I but it can, but there's a chance that requires POSIX :-(
15:36 Khisanth mumbled $*OUT is autoflushed; ? :P
15:37 gaal uh, the immediate answer for you though is, sorry I don't know.
15:37 pd on perl5: "Perl does not support truly unbuffered output (except insofar as you can syswrite(OUT, $char, 1))." Heh.
15:39 gaal pd, in this case linebuffered mode would be sufficient.
15:39 xinming So, It's the problem of haskell. :-)
15:39 fglock xinming: it's not a problem with buffering - this works: for 1..10 { print "myline: " ~ =$*IN }
15:40 gaal fglock: what is the problem then?
15:40 gaal xinming: it's not Haskell's fault, probably, if that what's you mean.
15:40 fglock I think it is a problem with laziness not being implemented yet - it is trying to construct the full =IN list before using it
15:41 gaal ah, wonderful: http://haskell.org/ghc/docs/latest/h​tml/libraries/base/System-IO.html#12
15:41 gaal there are buffering operators including linemode in non-posix haskell io.
15:41 gaal Oh. :-/
15:42 gaal that is unfortunate. :(
15:42 avar ?eval say​"boo"​if​1
15:42 evalbot_8240 OUTPUT[boo ] bool::true
15:42 avar harhar
15:43 gaal if anyone wants to add simple buffering, btw, it's a nice and easy addition.
15:43 avar ?eval say"boo"if1
15:43 evalbot_8240 Error:  unexpected "1" or "i" expecting term postfix, operator, ":", ",", postfix conditional, postfix loop, postfix iteration, ";" or end of input
15:43 avar >;)
15:43 xinming fglock: for your example, you have to write exit the for loop yourself
15:45 fglock xinming: yes. I'll try with -Bperl5
15:46 avar ?eval say​​1
15:46 evalbot_8240 OUTPUT[1 ] bool::true
15:46 avar ?eval say​1
15:46 evalbot_8240 OUTPUT[1 ] bool::true
15:46 avar ?eval say1
15:46 evalbot_8240 Error: No such sub: "&say1"
15:47 gaal parsefail if rand > .5; # wtf
15:47 pd heh.
15:47 avar doesn't that bot take ?eval in query?
15:48 gaal hmm?
15:48 Khisanth don't think so
15:48 gaal fwiw I have an old r6995 lying about that doesn't exhibit this interesting behavior.
15:48 xinming why the first `?eval say1` doesn't fail?
15:48 Khisanth probably to avoid having people abuse it for various purposes
15:49 avar xinming: because it's magical;)
15:49 gaal avar: are you asking if eval works? yes, for p6 eval. not for other :langs.
15:49 gaal ?eval say eval "hola"
15:49 evalbot_8240 OUTPUT[ ] bool::true
15:49 gaal ahem.
15:50 gaal ?eval eval "hola"
15:50 evalbot_8240 undef
15:50 gaal er, yes i should learn perl.
15:50 Khisanth heh
15:50 gaal ?eval say eval "'hola'"
15:50 avar is there anything in place to secure that bot?
15:50 evalbot_8240 OUTPUT[hola ] bool::true
15:50 avar ?eval "foo"
15:50 evalbot_8240 "foo"
15:50 gaal avar: yes, look into safe mode.
15:51 gaal there are both pugs-specific and OS measures.
15:51 gaal some prims are marked as "unsafe" so you can't do them from the bot:
15:51 gaal ?eval open "/etc/passwd"
15:51 evalbot_8240 Error: No such sub: "&Pugs::Internals::openFile"
15:51 xinming ?eval $*IN
15:51 avar ?eval fork while fork
15:51 evalbot_8240 \undef
15:51 evalbot_8240 Error: No such sub: "&fork"
15:52 gaal and the thing that dispatches pugs in the bot uses a limit on CPU and time:
15:52 xinming ?eval my $a = =$*IN
15:52 evalbot_8240 Error: Can't use readline() or getc() in safemode.
15:52 gaal ?eval 1 while 1
15:52 evalbot_8240 (no output)
15:52 gaal also, there are limits on output size and RAM.
15:52 xinming ?eval sub x { y }; sub y { x }; y
15:52 evalbot_8240 pugs: out of memory (requested 1048576 bytes)
15:52 xinming gaal: I think so
15:53 gaal to which please join me in saying, iblech++ :-)
15:53 xinming ?eval system "free"
15:53 evalbot_8240 Error: No such method: "&system"
15:54 gaal please see examples/network/evalbot/README.pod
15:54 xinming ?eval say1
15:54 evalbot_8240 Error: No such sub: "&say1"
15:54 avar ?eval $x = 1; $x *= 2 while 0..Inf
15:54 evalbot_8240 Error: Undeclared variable: "$x"
15:54 gaal say "my".
15:54 avar ?eval my $x = 1; $x *= 2 while 0..Inf
15:54 evalbot_8240 pugs: out of memory (requested 1048576 bytes)
15:54 * xinming wonders why avar's example works
15:54 gaal xinming: he said "my".
15:55 avar ?eval my $x = 1; $x *= 2 while 1
15:55 evalbot_8240 (no output)
15:55 xinming avar ?eval say​​1
15:55 xinming evalbot_8240 OUTPUT[1 ] bool::true
15:55 xinming is there a "my" ? :-/
15:55 pd ?eval say "what";
15:55 evalbot_8240 OUTPUT[what ] bool::true
15:56 xinming ?eval say"what"
15:56 evalbot_8240 OUTPUT[what ] bool::true
15:56 xinming ?eval say1
15:56 evalbot_8240 Error: No such sub: "&say1"
15:56 avar xinming: see, magic;)
15:56 pd ?eval say 1;
15:56 avar actually, it's not magic
15:56 evalbot_8240 OUTPUT[1 ] bool::true
15:56 avar you can use any unicode whitespace in perl6 to delimit tokens, including zero-width unicode whitespace
15:56 gaal pfff
15:57 avar (this should result in lots of clever code)
15:57 avar "clever"
15:57 gaal remind me to hack that out of the parser :-)
15:57 pd ?eval sub say1 { say "what"; }; say1;
15:57 evalbot_8240 OUTPUT[what ] bool::true
15:57 Khisanth but it won't lower your golf score!
15:57 avar Khisanth: maybe,
15:57 avar Khisanth: not if you count it by bytes
15:57 avar but if you count by characters...
15:57 avar it'll be the same
15:58 avar but less understandable
15:58 gaal the possibilities for ACME::Bleach are interesting.
15:58 pd Remind me to store data in UNICODE characters then.
15:58 gaal *Anything* becomes a one-liner.
15:58 Khisanth Acme::Onliner?
15:59 gaal At least, I propose Acme::Bleach::Unary
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15:59 gaal which encodes your program in zero-width chars
15:59 gaal the number of chars is a unary representation of the data
15:59 fglock xinming: '=$*IN' is not implemented in -Bperl5 yet, so I can't test it
15:59 gaal so the module needs not use pesky tabs, spaces, and newlines
16:00 gaal and create programs that truly fit on one line!
16:01 gaal I'm racing against myself here, see, because I fully intend to disallow this. I just don't know what I'll get to first.
16:01 xinming the console need to be utf-8 compatible. :-)
16:02 gaal brb
16:02 avar gaal: acc. to the synopsis it's there on purpose
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16:17 avar ?eval 1<2
16:17 evalbot_8240 bool::true
16:17 avar ?eval 1>2
16:17 evalbot_8240 bool::false
16:18 avar ?eval my $x = "foo"; my $y := $x; $y = "bar; $x
16:19 evalbot_8240 Error:  unexpected "b" expecting block, "\\", "$/", "$", "$!", "\"", word character, "::", ".", ":", "=", subroutine name, array subscript, hash subscript or code subscript
16:19 avar ?eval my $x = "foo"; my $y := $x; $y = "bar"; $x
16:19 evalbot_8240 \"bar"
16:19 avar ?eval my $x = "foo"; my $y ::= $x; $y = "bar"; $x
16:19 evalbot_8240 \"bar"
16:19 avar ?eval my $x = "foo"; my $y ::= $x; $y = "bar"; \$x
16:19 evalbot_8240 \"bar"
16:19 avar ?eval my $x = "foo"; my $y ::= $x; $y = "bar"; $x =:= $y
16:19 evalbot_8240 bool::true
16:20 avar ?eval my $x = "foo"; my $y ::= $x; $y = "bar"; my $z = "bar"; $x =:= $z
16:20 evalbot_8240 bool::true
16:23 avar I have ¥ on my ibook keyboard somewhere, I just can't find where..
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16:30 gaal avar: Y works wherever ¥ does
16:30 svnbot6 r8241 | kane++ |  r484@coke:  kane | 2005-12-14 13:28:31 +0100
16:30 svnbot6 r8241 | kane++ |  * eliminate the use of one global $Obj for the config
16:30 svnbot6 r8241 | kane++ |  * it's still a singleton though
16:30 svnbot6 r8242 | kane++ |  r485@coke:  kane | 2005-12-14 17:29:25 +0100
16:30 svnbot6 r8242 | kane++ |  * make the installation variables in config.pm private
16:30 svnbot6 r8242 | kane++ |      * they are wrapped from Installation.pm
16:30 svnbot6 r8242 | kane++ |  * add ls_all_accessors that returns private accessors as well in config.pm
16:30 svnbot6 r8242 | kane++ |  * try and use path::class everywhere
16:31 svnbot6 r8242 | kane++ |      * every dir/file returned by config.pm is a p::c object
16:31 svnbot6 r8242 | kane++ |  * rewrite all code to use the new installation wrappers rather than
16:31 svnbot6 r8242 | kane++ |      the old config.pm accessors
16:39 rafl kane++; #using Path::Class everywhere.
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17:20 fglock re minilang.subset(p6) - http://codespeak.net/pypy/extr​adoc/talk/oscon2003-paper.html - about the pypy project
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18:02 avar ?eval "x" x 3
18:02 evalbot_8240 is now known as evalbot_8242
18:02 evalbot_8242 "xxx"
18:02 avar ?eval "x" xx 3
18:02 evalbot_8242 ("x", "x", "x")
18:02 avar ?eval "x" xx 3 ~ "x"
18:02 evalbot_8242 "x x xx"
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18:03 avar ?eval ("x" xx 3) ~ "x"
18:03 evalbot_8242 "x x xx"
18:03 avar ?eval scalar "x" xx 3
18:03 evalbot_8242 Error: No such method: "&scalar"
18:03 avar ?eval scalar ("x" xx 3)
18:03 evalbot_8242 Error: No such method: "&scalar"
18:03 avar oh my
18:10 avar ?eval scalar str("x" xx 3)
18:10 evalbot_8242 Error: No such method: "&scalar"
18:10 avar ?eval str("x" xx 3)
18:10 evalbot_8242 Error: No such method: "&str"
18:10 avar ?eval (str)("x" xx 3)
18:10 evalbot_8242 Error: No such sub: "&str"
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18:27 xinming avar: In perl 6, I think scalar context is splited into Number context and String context
18:28 gaal ?eval ~("x" xx 3)
18:28 evalbot_8242 "x x x"
18:28 gaal ?eval +("x" xx 3)
18:28 evalbot_8242 3
18:28 gaal rehi btw
18:28 xinming so, you can use ~ to force it into string context, and use + to force it into numberic context
18:28 gaal ?eval ?("x" xx 3)
18:28 evalbot_8242 bool::true
18:28 gaal and boolean context :)
18:28 xinming by the way, anyone here knows about m4?
18:29 xinming how to supress the #!/usr/bin/m4 line if chmod a .m4 file into executable
18:31 integral under linux you might be able to fiddle with binfmt_misc I suppose
18:31 integral but a shebang line is standard to invoke a script
18:31 * integral misses the point, oops
18:32 avar xinming; gaal: thx;)
18:32 avar I mostly know perl5, just typing stuff into pugs & evalbot while reading dev.perl.org
18:32 xinming integral: yes, But the problem is, for m4, it will print the shebang line
18:33 integral to be honest I didn't even know you could access @ARGV in m4 :)
18:34 xinming #!/usr/bin/m4
18:34 xinming foo here
18:34 xinming xinming@Laptop:~/tmp$ cat asdf.m4
18:34 xinming #!/usr/bin/m4
18:34 xinming define(`foo', ``foo' here')
18:34 xinming foo
18:34 xinming I'd think using m4 as a cgi script would be fun. :-P
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18:55 avar ?eval reverse <a b c>
18:55 evalbot_8242 "c b a"
18:55 avar ?eval reverse ~(<a b c>)
18:55 evalbot_8242 "c b a"
18:56 avar ?eval reverse "abc"
18:56 evalbot_8242 "cba"
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19:06 gaal avar: at this point please run your own pugs locally :-)
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19:21 j0sephi http://picasa.hu/1134587387-al.kaida.xmas.jpg ahaha idiots :):):) :)
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19:42 gaal oh, someone kick j0sephi already
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19:45 svnbot6 r8243 | gaal++ | * docs/p6doc/ - a few small fixes to skud++'s notes
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19:50 stevan__ fglock: the Object Space is very much inspired by PyPy (hell we even took their name :)
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19:52 tewk stevan__: I've got a very simple test harness, I'll paste a diff and get your comments
19:56 stevan__ tewk: did you commit it?
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19:56 tewk I'm about too.  An old version is in t/pil/simple.t   ./pugs t/pil/simple.t
19:56 tewk I'
19:57 tewk I've factored out the code to ext/Test/lib/TestPil.pm, but I don't know what to do with the build process.
19:57 tewk I've been copying ext/Test/lib/TestPil.pm to blib6/lib manually.
19:58 tewk I've also got a t/pil/bit.t ready to go.
19:58 stevan__ is it in p6? or p5?
19:58 stevan__ tewk: cool!
19:58 stevan__ is now known as stevan
19:59 tewk p6, but I can make it p5. The p6 stuff took me a while to come up to speed on, so I kept it simple to start.
19:59 stevan tewk: simple is good, and p6 is good too
19:59 stevan self-hosting++
19:59 tewk so is t/pil a good place for tests, and do you have any guidance about the build process and what I need to do there?
20:00 tewk If not I'll check in and ask for build process help.
20:00 stevan t/pil is good yes
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20:00 stevan I think maybe it should be Test::Pil though, not TestPil
20:00 stevan but thats a detail
20:00 stevan we can easily change if we want too
20:01 tewk Test::Pil I agree, I'm just getting comfortable with the pugs tree there are so many exts, blibs, libs, I'm a little lost.
20:01 tewk Here it comes
20:02 stevan tewk: ext is where this should go,.. and when people run the Makefile.PL it should get copied to the blib dir
20:02 tewk That what I though, I just haven't got it to work how I expect yet.
20:03 stevan you can also do ./pugs -I ext/Test/lib t/pil/bit.t
20:04 fglock has left
20:04 svnbot6 r8244 | tewk++ | pil test code factored out to it's own module.
20:04 svnbot6 r8244 | tewk++ | tests for NativeBit not, and, and or operations
20:04 gaal or export PERL6LIB=blib6/lib
20:05 gaal hey stevan
20:05 stevan hey gaal
20:06 tewk I found this on hack.pod at pugscode.org and have been using it,  export HARNESS_PERL=./pugs export PERL6LIB=blib6/lib
20:07 tewk Where is the HARNESS_PERL used?
20:08 stevan tewk++ # very nice stuff
20:08 gaal by prove
20:08 tewk ahh
20:08 gaal tewk: prove is a p5 tool, but it can use pugs to generate TAP data
20:09 gaal did anyone write a TAP module for other languages alredy? Java, C# etc?
20:09 gaal *already
20:09 gaal should be just a few days work, and then they can benefit from the matrix etc.
20:10 tewk ?paste
20:10 gaal perlbot nopaste
20:10 perlbot Paste your code here and #<channel> will be able to view it: http://sial.org/pbot/<channel>
20:11 gaal why isn't perlbot clever enough to s/<channel>/$channel/? :-)
20:11 stevan gaal: I think there are some other TAP modules out there, there is a JS one I know, and IIRC someone on perl-qa mentioned a C/C++ one
20:11 gaal whoa, a c one could have helped me a while ago
20:11 tewk thanks, I have an idea for test descriptions, but I'm have p6 woes :) I'll paste in a minute
20:12 gaal sure
20:12 gaal c is hardly a language where TDD is fun though :)
20:13 * stevan wonders what about C is fun at all :P
20:13 * gaal finds it hard to express
20:13 gaal certainly not strings :)
20:14 gaal but some of the time I find a great elegance in it.
20:14 gaal some of the time it's plain ridiculous though :)
20:15 gaal GLib has some beautiful c.
20:15 stevan I haven't had the benefit of a CS education, so the low level stuff you need to fiddle with in C is just frustrating to me
20:15 stevan I much more prefer higher level abstractions :)
20:16 stevan I do see some beauty in C though
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20:16 stevan I used to read a lot of books on hard-real-time systems, and the C code written for that stuff is (usually) really nice compact and elegant code
20:17 stevan I guess I can appreciate it, but can't ever see writing it :)
20:17 gaal funny, I don't have a CS education either, and abstractions are often difficult for me. at least the first couple of years :)
20:17 * stevan was a painting major, abstract painting mostly :)
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20:18 stevan I "see" code in my head visually, and I never could "see" C very well
20:18 * gaal has a rothke reproduction he likes in the living room
20:18 * stevan does too :)
20:19 stevan gaal: which one?
20:19 gaal it's not titled. Red, from 1956.
20:19 * stevan wonders if we have the same one :)
20:20 gaal :)
20:20 gaal heh, i mixed him up with the poet
20:21 gaal http://www.prints4all.com/cgi-bin/comm​erce.cgi?preadd=action&amp;key=IMA3918
20:23 stevan nope.... different ones
20:23 stevan mine has more browns in it
20:23 stevan have you ever seen his work in person
20:23 stevan amazing stuff
20:23 stevan I have gotten yelled at by many a MoMA guards for standing too close :)
20:24 gaal Distinctly I remember a very magical half-hour in the Tate :-)
20:25 gaal Might have been less. Anyway... we're spamming the channel :-)
20:26 * stevan prefers to think of it as educating the masses,.. but okay ;)
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20:30 pasteling "tewk" at 71.32.232.64 pasted "Ugly Test::Pil, syntatic errors, but it has my ideas for test descriptions" (44 lines, 1.4K) at http://sial.org/pbot/14958
20:30 tewk Now to try to get it to work :)
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20:32 stevan tewk: what is the need for generating the description?
20:32 stevan as opposed to writing it with the test itself?
20:34 tewk I have the benefit of a CS education, which has taught me to write dozens of lines to code to avoid typing a description for each test :)
20:35 stevan LOL
20:35 tewk I'm just trying to get up to speed on Perl6 and I'm laxy.
20:35 stevan tewk: I am not sure we have lexical subs yet
20:36 tewk Ah
20:36 stevan although it should work anyway
20:36 stevan just not define it lexically
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20:37 tewk Well that was what I was trying to do, I'll keep playing with it.  Maybe I should get back to writing test for PIL. :)
20:37 * gaal giggles <for at by> tewk's benefit
20:37 tewk I think I will just add an optional description arg and call it good. On to tests.  By the way how do you make an arg optional in Perl6?
20:38 gaal sub X ($arg?)
20:38 gaal sub X ($arg? = "default val")
20:38 tewk thanx
20:39 tewk gaal: your much faster then greping through docs and synopsis :)
20:39 gaal #perl6 is a kind of an optimized grep
20:39 stevan gaal is a storehouse of p6 knowledge... aka.. its an in-memory search :)
20:40 gaal you give me waaay too much credit folks :)
20:40 sili__ has joined #perl6
20:40 gaal Juerd & luqui are our resident perldocs
20:40 gaal and I will NOT get into a drawing contest with audrey :)
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20:42 tewk stevan: Being CS educated, I'm very interested in the native mini-language and bootstrapping the ObjectModel.  I've got to run, but what are he next small tasks that need done.
20:43 stevan tewk: mostly it is implementing the object meta-model using the mini-language,..
20:43 stevan this is all based on the work in perl5/Perl6-ObjectSpace
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20:44 tewk I'll continue improveing TestPil.  Can I just move it to ext/Test/lib/Test/Pil.pm and change TestPil to Test::Pil ?
20:44 stevan sure
20:44 stevan I will probably add some tests later tonight myself
20:44 gaal tewk: svn mv, in case you don't know it
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20:46 tewk thanks gaal: My perl5/6/haskell is pretty pretty pathetic :) but I know svn, C, etc
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20:49 gaal cool :) no offence I hope... impossible to tell what people know and don't know these days :)
20:50 tewk No I appreciate the help, if fact I learn fast and I like suggestions, especially in reguards to my perl.
20:51 gaal learning haskell is hard (for me) but extremely enjoyable when things click
20:53 tewk I've played with python, ruby, scheme, haskell, etc.  So I get a lot of the concepts.  I just don't know perlism syntax very well, so I revert to evil C style syntax in perl, which usually gets the job done.  I want to learn though.
20:54 gaal oh, in that case you're in luck cause learning perl is loads of fun :-)
20:56 sili__ tewk: just avoid c-style for loops and you'll be ok
20:56 sili__ cause those are the worstestest.
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20:58 * xinming thinks learning haskell is the biggest pain he ever encountered.
20:58 xinming especially the moand, takes me 3 days to understand what the monads is.
20:58 svnbot6 r8245 | tewk++ | TestPil becomes Test::Pil
20:59 gaal xinming: you are in great shape :-) It's taking me nine *months* and counting
20:59 xinming frustrating me
21:00 xinming gaal: I just understand what it is, But the problem is, I can't write without the the example. :-/
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21:54 svnbot6 r8246 | stevan++ | ::Class.get_method_list should have no parameters ;)
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22:33 gaal where are the shiftTs that relate to the resetT in opEval (Pugs.Prim.Eval)?
22:49 iblechbot has quit IRC (Success)
22:49 gaal why is position information omitted in failed evals? because $! isn't fully specced?
22:49 gaal ?eval eval "asdfadf"; $!
22:49 evalbot_8242 is now known as evalbot_8246
22:49 evalbot_8246 \undef
22:49 gaal ?eval eval "asdfadf"; say $!
22:49 evalbot_8246 OUTPUT[No such sub: "&asdfadf" ] bool::true
22:49 gaal contrast:
22:50 gaal ?eval asdf
22:50 evalbot_8246 Error: No such sub: "&asdf"
22:50 gaal heh.
22:50 gaal well on non-evalbot, that also prints coordinates.
22:50 gaal but retEvalResult does only
22:51 gaal err@(VError e _) -> do writeRef errSV e
22:52 gaal ... on a different note:
22:52 gaal opRequire, when a module was found in %*INC already:
22:52 gaal opEval style pathName ""
22:53 gaal why? why the call to opEval, just to possibly reset $!   ?
22:53 * stevan wonders who gaal is talking to :)
22:53 svnbot6 r8247 | stevan++ | PIL.Native.*
22:53 svnbot6 r8247 | stevan++ | - changed attribute names in PIL/Native/Eval.hs to include the
22:53 svnbot6 r8247 | stevan++ |   twigils (%methods becomes %:methods, etc)
22:53 svnbot6 r8247 | stevan++ | - added src/PIL/Native/Bootstrap.pil, this is the skeleton of the
22:53 svnbot6 r8247 | stevan++ |   meta-model bootstrap code, it needs a /LOT/ of work :)
22:53 svnbot6 r8247 | stevan++ | Perl6::ObjectSpace
22:53 svnbot6 r8247 | stevan++ | - misc scribbles in the API_sketch.pod, nothing interesting really
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22:55 stevan audreyt: we need to chat when you get back online
22:55 * stevan dinner &
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23:17 gaal what does "VControl $ ControlEnv env" mean?
23:17 gaal what does 'Syn "env" []' do?
23:18 gaal eg. EvalResultEnv -> (`mergeStmts` Syn "env" [])
23:19 gaal zzZZ &
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