Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2005-12-29

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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08:01 gaal every once in a while I encounter the word "taguri" in the context of yaml or syck and it keeps taking me the same amount of time to figure out who this Japanese version of some Tagore fellow is.
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09:56 anatolyv anyone on who can help with a login problem on openfoundry? :)
09:57 gaal hey anatolyv. everybody's asleep it seems :(
09:58 * anatolyv nods.
09:59 anatolyv mmm, sleep. can't blame them!
10:00 gaal :)  got any other cool features you want to implement?
10:01 anatolyv not at the moment, probably :) I'd better focus a bit on learning more haskell and reading some code.
10:01 gaal Pugs.Prim is a fair place to start
10:02 gaal some of the things there are relatively pure haskell
10:04 anatolyv relatively, eh?
10:06 gaal :) there's the issue of packing and unpacking pugsy Vals, but other than that some ops are simple.
10:07 gaal btw, there's also a junctive meaning for ^, but I ran your code against t/junction/misc_junctions.t and nothing broke.
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11:42 Cryptic_K gotta go
11:42 Cryptic_K laters.
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13:57 gaal so, where is everybody today?
13:58 * anatolyv is right here
14:13 * nnunley is over there.
14:13 * Alias_ is EVERYWHERE
14:14 gaal "you said, 'I am as constant as the Northern Star' / I said, 'constantly in the dark, where's that at?'"
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17:18 azuroth sha perl six
17:20 svnbot6 r8499 | audreyt++ | * backtracking, error-correction-suggesting,
17:20 svnbot6 r8499 | audreyt++ |   happier-than-parsec, PGE-match-structure-compatible,
17:20 svnbot6 r8499 | audreyt++ |   all-singing all-dancing partial rewrite of PArrow
17:20 svnbot6 r8499 | audreyt++ |   and Text.Parser.Rule.
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17:26 robkinyon stevan: Yes?
17:26 stevan__ is now known as stevan
17:27 stevan robkinyon: so, p6 "use"
17:27 robkinyon well, the p6 use semantics
17:28 robkinyon I was actually figuring out how to implement rubygems in Perl
17:28 stevan :)
17:28 robkinyon then, i realized it wasn't a big step to get to p6 use
17:28 stevan a p5 prototype would be a good thing of course
17:28 robkinyon so, everyone understands how we trap the require statement to do arbitrary things (use won't work)
17:28 robkinyon The filesystem part isn't that hard
17:29 stevan there are two things which I htink are important to consider
17:29 robkinyon we just have a DBM::Deep file
17:29 robkinyon that acts as the DB
17:29 stevan the filesystem layout, and the possibility of compiled modules mixed with source modules
17:29 robkinyon my initial plan was to do nothing more than be another site_perl
17:29 stevan yup
17:29 stevan any way we can avoid a DB?
17:29 robkinyon no
17:30 stevan what about some convoluted directory scheme
17:30 robkinyon nonono
17:30 robkinyon "use" still has to work
17:30 stevan well for a prototype it doesnt :)
17:31 gaal context?
17:31 stevan for a "use in the real world" it does
17:31 gaal sounds interesting what you're talking about, guys.
17:31 stevan hey gaal :)
17:31 robkinyon well, i want to release this as an alternative to cpan(plus)
17:31 stevan gaal: we are discussing p6 use sematics being implemented in p5
17:31 robkinyon i'm writing perlgems
17:31 robkinyon if it also implements p6 semantics, that's cool
17:32 stevan robkinyon: I think it might make sense to do a throw-away prototype of the "correct" p6 behavior, then map it to a real-world-usable solution
17:32 robkinyon and, i want it to work with the current CPAN
17:32 robkinyon maybe
17:32 robkinyon i don't have a strategy yet
17:32 gaal robkinyon: you know about kane and rafl's JIB yes?
17:32 stevan I am thinking we could knock out a prototype in a day or two,.. then learn from it
17:32 robkinyon ?
17:32 gaal (I don't know gems, no idea how close that is)
17:33 robkinyon what's JIB?
17:33 gaal robkinyon: afaik it's a packaging+dep+etc system based on the .deb format
17:33 stevan I think it is a package manager, but I havent been following the development much
17:34 robkinyon oh, o
17:34 robkinyon ok
17:34 gaal robkinyon: misc/sixpan/JIB
17:34 robkinyon rubygems is this - it allows you to install multiple versions of the same distro, then specify which one you want when you load it
17:34 robkinyon it also does deps and all that other good stuff
17:35 gaal rings a bell or two :)
17:36 robkinyon in ruby, you have to use a new keyword called requiregem
17:36 robkinyon but, new keywords in ruby are easy
17:36 gaal they're easy in p6 too :)
17:36 chris2 it's not a keyword, just a method
17:36 robkinyon in perl, just put an interceptor in @INC, but you have to use BEGIN { require "...."; } instead of use "..." because use needs a bareword
17:36 svnbot6 r8500 | audreyt++ | * Completed multi-positional error reporting.  To wit:
17:36 svnbot6 r8500 | audreyt++ |     $ ghc --make -main-is Text.Parser.Rule.main -isrc src/Text/Parser/Rule.hs src/cbits/fpstring.ou
17:36 svnbot6 r8500 | audreyt++ |     $ ./a.out '.abc|def' 'xyz'
17:36 svnbot6 r8500 | audreyt++ |     Expecting: 'def' at column 1
17:36 svnbot6 r8500 | audreyt++ |            or: 'abc' at column 2
17:37 gaal audreyt: ping
17:37 robkinyon chris2: a "keyword" as a perler understands it is a method in kernel or module
17:37 audreyt gaal: hey
17:37 chris2 and please dont copy rubygems without talking to packagers first...
17:37 chris2 robkinyon: oh, okay
17:37 audreyt just checking back right before sleep
17:37 robkinyon i'm not implementing a p6 item
17:37 audreyt thank $deity that $job day is over and tomorrow I can actually IRC
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17:38 gaal audreyt: openfoundry's login/new user system is somewhat borked
17:38 robkinyon chris2: I'm implementing a p5 package installer
17:38 audreyt gaal: session expiry problems?
17:38 robkinyon it just so happens that i'll probably implement a lot of the p6 semantics
17:38 gaal we have a patch pending from new committer anatolyv but he couldn't auth
17:38 audreyt weird
17:38 chris2 robkinyon: and you want it to be like gems?
17:38 gaal he can login to the web site, but not svn.
17:38 audreyt is he listed in the project members?
17:38 gaal unfortunately he's offline now.
17:38 robkinyon chris2: That was my initial inspiration, yes
17:39 chris2 robkinyon: you may want to read http://rpa-base.rubyforge.org
17:39 robkinyon ok, thanks!
17:39 gaal audreyt: hmm, no.
17:39 chris2 robkinyon: rubygems has some problems
17:39 gaal but he did receive the invitation and reply to it (and log in, etc.)
17:39 robkinyon chris2: Gah!
17:40 robkinyon i want to write another CPAN installer, not another CPAN
17:40 audreyt gaal: so add the list manually?
17:40 chris2 then you only need a half of rpa :)
17:40 audreyt it could happen if (say) he somehow registered manually
17:40 audreyt without carrying the invitation letter sessionid
17:41 robkinyon LOL
17:41 robkinyon actually, i'm not going to use much of rubygems's architecture at all
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17:41 chris2 perl probably deals differently with the problems of gems already...
17:42 chris2 but stuff like one-directory is one package is obviously bad
17:42 robkinyon Perl doesn't solve the problems gems solves, which is why i want to write something
17:42 gaal oh: I have him as "member unregistered". how do I change that manually?
17:42 robkinyon which actually creates several big problems in Perl, like how to have mod_perl1 and mod_perl2 installed at the same time
17:44 gaal ...I don't see a way of doing that.
17:44 stevan audreyt: what is needed for container support in PIL^N?
17:44 robkinyon brb
17:44 audreyt stevan: some of my timeslice tomorrow :)
17:44 stevan ah
17:44 audreyt stevan: I only had 1.5hr to hack today...
17:44 stevan are you writing it in PIL^N or in Haskell?
17:44 audreyt and I was very tired from $job, so I cloned PGE instead
17:45 stevan :D
17:45 audreyt all methods in PIL^N but with haskell-side wrapper types
17:45 stevan ok
17:45 audreyt not unlike (say) autoboxing Haskell.Integer into Perl6.Int
17:45 audreyt gaal: hm... "avar"?
17:46 audreyt gaal: if you know the email addr, try matching against that in "Edit Staff"
17:46 stevan I was thinking about boxed types lately (dreaming about them last night actually), so I thought I might try to put together the list of methods and (sub|super)class relationships needed for them
17:46 gaal audreyt: no avorobey @ ...
17:46 * avar waves!
17:47 gaal avar: hey :)
17:47 audreyt avar: hey
17:47 avar ;)
17:47 audreyt avar: so you can login to the web?
17:47 avar to that pugs thing?
17:47 audreyt yeah
17:47 audreyt rt.openfoundry.org
17:47 avar last I checked
17:47 audreyt what's your userid there again?
17:47 avar avar
17:47 gaal nono, avar ne anatolyv
17:48 audreyt very confusing
17:48 avar ?eval "avar" ne "anatolyv"
17:48 evalbot_8498 is now known as evalbot_8500
17:48 evalbot_8500 bool::true
17:48 avar perl confirms it
17:48 avar ;)
17:48 audreyt in any case, I need to crash now... :-/ approach LCamel_, gugod and/or tcliou here for troubleshooting... if they are not around now, maybe ~6hrs later. if it's not fixed when I wake up, I'll handle it tomorrow
17:49 gaal okay, thanks :)
17:49 audreyt stevan: excellent! please put it to Perl6-ObjectSpace or anywhere else you see fit
17:49 stevan I was going to prototype in p5 firtst,.. so probably there yes
17:49 stevan (plus I can use the p5 based class visualizer :)
17:50 audreyt cool... see you tomorrow when my brain is with me :)
17:50 * audreyt waves &
17:50 stevan excellent,.. have a good sleep
17:50 * stevan wanders off too &
17:51 nothingmuch audreyt++
17:51 avar karma audreyt
17:51 jabbot avar: audreyt  has neutral karma
17:51 avar karma ++audreyt
17:51 jabbot avar: ++audreyt  has neutral karma
17:51 avar ;)
17:52 hcchien avar: can you try to login to openfoundry again to check if yoou are listed in member.
17:52 hcchien I just add you as the project member.
17:53 avar just logged in again
17:53 avar pugs is in "my projects"
17:55 gaal hcchien: can you please do the same for new user "anatolyv"?
17:55 hcchien gaal: let me try it
17:57 hcchien gaal: I can't find the user. does he register?
17:57 svnbot6 r8501 | audreyt++ | * treat the input as a long "line" for now.
17:58 gaal hcchien: he had weird problems registering. he logged in and accepted the TOS etc, and got a message everything was successful, but the next thing he tried to do on the web told him he needed to log in again.
17:59 gaal his email shows up as a "member, unregistered"
18:04 hcchien gugod:
18:04 hcchien gugod: around?
18:07 gaal afk &
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18:31 gugod hcchien: yes sir?
18:32 hcchien gugod: gaal said the user "anatolyv" finished the register on openfoundry. but we still see the user in status 'unregister'. if you can help us to check it?
18:36 gugod hcchien: I don't really know how to deal with problem like that. but it seemes to be a known bug which is really difficult to reproduce, and I'll fix that bug in the future. But for this case, I'll just delegate to lcamel to just set the registration state of user anatolyv
18:37 hcchien oh, ok. since it's a known bug. :p
18:40 gugod yes. but it happened only 2 or 3 times last year
18:41 gugod in fact, we didn't know how to reproduce that yet
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19:12 particle_ seen juerd?
19:12 jabbot particle_: juerd was seen 71 days 19 hours 32 minutes 59 seconds ago
19:14 rep what's your opinion on prolog?
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19:15 azuroth morning
19:15 azuroth morning
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19:17 rep morning
19:18 azuroth err. whoops.
19:18 azuroth hullo rep
19:19 azuroth I'm looking for a video clip but seem to have misplaced it
19:22 azuroth prolog, rep? I've tried to grok it a bit, but never really...
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20:29 gaal hcchien, gugod: thanks
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20:43 azuroth heh heh heh
20:43 azuroth take it
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20:44 nothingmuch particle_: don't trust jabbot, it's been away for a while
20:47 Khisanth you could use seenserv
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20:55 particle_ seenserv?
20:56 particle_ thanks for the info, nm. found what i needed without juerd this time :)
20:59 Khisanth you can do /msg seenserv seen particle_
20:59 nothingmuch what are the servs available?
20:59 nothingmuch nickserv, memoserv, seenserv, chanserv
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21:48 Khisanth nothingmuch: well some places have a hostserv too
21:49 nothingmuch what's that?
21:50 azuroth my friend is reading out this story, "six inches." it's interesting.
21:50 Khisanth it does things similar to the freenode cloaks
21:52 wolverian six inches certainly sounds interesting..
21:53 azuroth ever heard of an author, charles bukowski?
21:53 azuroth it's entirely not what you'd expect from both him and the story's name
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22:04 wolverian azuroth, I dimly remember hearing the name. I'll check it out later, thanks!
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22:11 azuroth he's an alcoholic, but it's very amusing
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22:34 azuroth A witch shrinks her boyfriend to 6 inches, and fucks herself with her ;)
22:34 azuroth him, not her
22:34 azuroth etc
22:36 azuroth Don't we all fantasise about that???
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23:25 Khisanth only the suicidal ones
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23:45 Juerd 22:02 < particle_> thanks for the info, nm. found what i needed without juerd this time :)
23:45 Juerd particle: yay :)
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