Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2006-01-10

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 dduncan I think audreyt said that there would be one this weekend, due to new work demands pushing it from 48 hours since yesterday
00:01 rafl OK, thanks.
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00:09 meppl guten morgen
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00:31 dduncan guten abend
00:31 dduncan I think that's "afternoon"
00:31 tewk ~[6~[6~[B[6~[5~[6~
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00:35 theorbtwo nachmittags is afternoon.  Abend is evening.
00:36 dduncan oh, right
00:36 dduncan still, its 4:36pm here, and its getting dark
00:36 dduncan so both could still work
00:37 dduncan just looking at the sun, evening is very appropriate
00:37 dduncan or dusk
00:37 mlh abend is ABnormal END in mainframe talk
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03:19 clkao mmm pil2js is totally broken
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03:32 dduncan okay, large file reorg commit in a minute or three (all in 'ext')
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03:35 dduncan pushing now
03:37 dduncan done
03:37 svnbot6 r8631 | Darren_Duncan++ |  r1879@Darren-Duncans-Computer:  darrenduncan | 2006-01-09 19:34:56 -0800
03:37 svnbot6 r8631 | Darren_Duncan++ |  split up /ext/Rosetta-Incubator 4 ways, into itself, /ext/Locale-KeyedText, /ext/Rosetta, /ext/Rosetta-Engine-Native; the latter 3 will be completed first, and anything left in Rosetta-Incubator is deferred indefinitely
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03:37 dduncan now to move the remainder out of ext ...
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03:38 cdxreaper is there some module that allows a perl program to recieve events from the X11 server?
03:38 dduncan there is in perl 5, dunno about perl 6
03:41 dduncan in perl 5, look at the ControlX10::* modules, Device::SerialPort, and the separate "MisterHouse" program
03:41 dduncan cdxreaper
03:42 clkao 28046 pugs        13.2%  7:09.16   1    13  1047   736M+  608K   167M+ 1.04G+
03:42 clkao pugs
03:42 clkao pus-- # compiling js prelude halts the machine
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03:55 svnbot6 r8632 | Darren_Duncan++ |  r1881@Darren-Duncans-Computer:  darrenduncan | 2006-01-09 19:52:58 -0800
03:55 svnbot6 r8632 | Darren_Duncan++ |  moved remainder of /ext/Rosetta-Incubator to /misc/Rosetta-Incubator ... where the same folder was in Pugs release 6.2.10
04:01 dduncan main moves done ... just file editing next
04:09 clkao audreyt: so i added 54 operators, and pugs is very unable compiling the prelude
04:09 clkao s/unable/unhappy
04:09 clkao those are assigning with curry'ed sub from an eval.
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05:50 gaal $morning
05:51 gaal There are two open issues I won't have a chance to work on in the next ~12 hours:
05:51 gaal 1. continue r8630 and fix exportation of multi subs
05:52 gaal 2. Rule yaml deserialization: find why they're tripping a segfault when applied
05:53 gaal 3. (BEGIN { s/two/three/ above }) workaround "use_ok" in test suite
05:53 gaal #2 is probably easiest but is lowest priority :)
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06:17 rep http://www.ehowa.com/showpictur​e.shtml?image=momoftheyear.jpg
06:41 svnbot6 r8633 | Darren_Duncan++ |  r1887@Darren-Duncans-Computer:  darrenduncan | 2006-01-09 22:39:45 -0800
06:41 svnbot6 r8633 | Darren_Duncan++ |  /ext/[Loc-KT,Ros,Ros-E-N],/misc/Ros-I : updated the Makefile.PL and the t/*.t files to be correct for these split apart distros
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07:03 GeJ greetings all
07:04 dduncan grreetings
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07:14 buu Hello australia.
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07:21 svnbot6 r8634 | Darren_Duncan++ |  r1889@Darren-Duncans-Computer:  darrenduncan | 2006-01-09 23:17:10 -0800
07:21 svnbot6 r8634 | Darren_Duncan++ |  /ext|/misc : added several explicit LKT dependencies
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07:34 cognominal what is TGE?
08:00 dduncan it stands for Tree Grammar Engine, apparently
08:00 svnbot6 r8635 | Darren_Duncan++ |  r1893@Darren-Duncans-Computer:  darrenduncan | 2006-01-09 23:57:54 -0800
08:00 svnbot6 r8635 | Darren_Duncan++ |  updated the ChangeLog with a summary of my changes
08:01 dduncan enter "TGE perl" for a variety of related answers
08:01 dduncan into Google that is
08:01 dduncan cognomial
08:01 dduncan I mean, cognominal
08:20 cognominal thx, what is the relationship with PGE?
08:23 cognominal EACRONYMOVERFLOW
08:25 cognominal seems to be some attribute grammar stuff on top of PGE
08:27 dduncan as I said, try entering "TGE perl" into Google ... first hits are about that relationship
08:48 svnbot6 r8636 | clkao++ | test curry'ed function with named argument invocation, which
08:48 svnbot6 r8636 | clkao++ | pil2js fails to recognize.
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09:24 audreyt yo
09:25 GeJ greetings audreyt
09:25 * audreyt backlogeth
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09:30 wolverian wow, nice YAML progress.
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11:01 audreyt Grrrr: YAML::Syck 0.15 should fix the NAN problem. thanks!
11:02 clkao whoot
11:02 audreyt it doesn't affect svk because svk is 5.8 only anyway ;)
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11:29 xinming audreyt: ping.
11:30 xinming She is also known for internationalization and localization contributions to several Free Software programs
11:30 xinming audreyt: Should you change She into He? :-/
11:31 audreyt xinming: no, I'm a woman now :) see http://pugs.blogs.com/audrey/​2005/12/runtime_typecas.html
11:37 xinming audreyt: Oh, Ok, hmm, I would use she for you in the future. :-)
11:37 audreyt thanks!
11:38 nothingmuch =)
11:38 nothingmuch this is almost quoteworthy
11:38 Odin- 'almost'?
11:38 nothingmuch i like the way the community is so non-bigotty
11:38 nothingmuch people just accept things
11:38 nothingmuch realizing it doesn't really make a difference
11:39 audreyt *nod*
11:42 xinming hmm, The truth is, Everything is reasonable, And we just need to accept it after we know the reason. :-)
11:43 Grrrr audreyt  \o/
11:45 nothingmuch xinming: my grudge, and possibly the reason why i broke up any romantic relationships i've had up to now, is exactly people's inability to do just that
11:45 nothingmuch (what I meant is - it was always a barrier for me)
11:46 nothingmuch basically, when you are trying to get someone to accept/agree/learn/try something
11:46 nothingmuch and they refuse to do so
11:46 nothingmuch for a reason that is completely besides the point
11:46 nothingmuch refusing to conquer dogma, or groundless fear
11:46 nothingmuch it really really gets to me
11:46 nothingmuch and this has been very uncommon here
11:46 nothingmuch people genuwinely listen
11:46 GeJ if I may, the only problem I have with this is that I used to advertise autrijus as "_Teh_ Man" around me while telling my friends about pugs and parrot... now I've got to change all the badges, flyers and such and work on a new campaign...
11:47 GeJ but I'm working on it
11:47 nothingmuch and either they change your mind, or you change their mind, or you just maturely disagree
11:47 theorbtwo GeJ: Or just consider "_Teh_ Man" a gender-neutral term.
11:49 theorbtwo Should probably fix the WP article to actually mention not just both sets of names, but the reasoning.
11:50 theorbtwo (On the theory that the genders of the names might not be obvious to people for whom neither chinese nor english are native languages, and that it's better to be obvious then indirect.)
11:50 xinming nothingmuch: Things will change, Hmm, People here will also think this isn't right compare to tradition, But you can just throw it behind... It's the same as me. I was playing with computer all day. And I don't have a girl friend for now... The rumour from my neighbours are all saying that there is something wrong with me...
11:51 nothingmuch hehe
11:51 nothingmuch i hope you're right
11:51 xinming hmm, though, I know I am a boy. I don't care much about the rumour.
11:51 * Odin-LAP suggests there most likely is ... but then again, there's something wrong with most everyone.
11:52 nothingmuch the way things are headed with russia, the us, iran and all that, it seems that everyone is going the other way though
11:52 theorbtwo I generally find it amuzing, rather then horrible, when people assume "theorbtwo" is a feminine nick.
11:52 Odin-LAP And you rarely, if ever, manage to guess what it is. ;)
11:52 * nothingmuch suspects the nicest places to live will be venezuela and bolivia in ~10-15 years, if they keep it up
11:52 nothingmuch theorbtwo: when I was bored i used to name myself 'Natural Blond - Naturally Dumb'
11:53 nothingmuch people would bug me all the time
11:53 nothingmuch not realizing i was kidding
11:53 nothingmuch i would play along, and then call them icky or something when they made suggestive comments
11:53 xinming No matter what they says, Just go with your own way, I don't hurt other people, and I just wish to play with computer...that's all, So for now, I am not as nervous as before... hmm, maybe I should say angry.
11:53 nothingmuch it provided amusement in 5 minute slices
11:53 nothingmuch but then again, i was ~14
11:53 nothingmuch so i thought that stuff was much funnier
11:53 Odin-LAP nothingmuch: Dunno. The 'Bolivarian revolution' is a different authoritarian slice than bolshevism, but I understand it's no picnic disagreeing with Chavez...
11:54 nothingmuch Odin-LAP: i'll take your word for it
11:54 nothingmuch i only vaguely heard about it
11:55 nothingmuch but from what I've heard i'm at least optimistic
11:55 * theorbtwo decides to skip it, on the theory that it'd involve writing large passages of sensical English.
11:55 theorbtwo ...and that I've got enough damn projects already.
11:56 * xinming is out for supper.
11:56 audreyt miyagawa++ # pushing me to merge YAML::Syck codebase to JSON::Syck
11:56 Odin-LAP nothingmuch: I do think it's something to be optimistic about. The least it does is to show that neoliberal economics aren't the only reality. :p
11:56 audreyt now we also have a damn fast JSON module ;)
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11:59 nothingmuch audreyt++
11:59 nothingmuch miyagawa++
11:59 nothingmuch brb
12:14 nothingmuch oreilly should publish a book called 'Toilet Hacks'
12:15 theorbtwo No, it really shouldn't.
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12:16 nothingmuch you could learn things like
12:16 Debolaz What mascot would they use for that?
12:16 nothingmuch "coat your bowl with teflon to prevent clogs"
12:17 nothingmuch Debolaz: http://burgerlog.blogspot.c​om/2005/12/tammy-turd.html
12:17 Debolaz I suspect I shouldn't click on that.. :|
12:17 nothingmuch it's work safe
12:17 Debolaz :)
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12:23 audreyt miyagawa: http://perlcabal.org/~autrijus/tmp/01_json.t
12:24 audreyt miyagawa: svn up from my tree and it should Just Work
12:24 audreyt (r85)
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12:31 * audreyt goes catching bus back to taipei
12:33 miyagawa JSON::Syck 0.01 released
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14:03 Alias_ seen audreyt?
14:03 jabbot Alias_: audreyt was seen 1 hours 39 minutes 42 seconds ago
14:04 Alias_ audreyt: ping?
14:07 bsb Alias_: the last message was "audreytgoes catching bus back to taipei"
14:07 Alias_ ah, thanks
14:07 Alias_ Will lurk and catch her later
14:07 Alias_ Although I imagine she'll be sleeping soon anyway
14:08 bsb Shouldn't you be? 1am there no?
14:08 Alias_ My body clock is weirded out ATM
14:08 Alias_ I got up at 6pm
14:09 Alias_ Got into an ugly pattern of sleeping 12-14 hours every 2 days
14:09 Alias_ Mainly duy to holidays PITA hacking
14:09 Alias_ due
14:10 bsb Mmmm, sleep
14:16 Debolaz And burgers.. delicious hamburglers.
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17:41 gaal rehi
17:42 sub_chick hiya
17:47 gaal mmm JSON::Syck :)
17:57 Alias_ JSON::OnA::Styck
17:59 theorbtwo URaLL::Syck
18:01 miyagawa hwh
18:01 miyagawa heh
18:05 theorbtwo BTW, what does JSON::Syck do when it gets functions?
18:05 theorbtwo If the answer is anything but "cough and die", then I have an evil plan.
18:06 clkao of course it uses b::deparse
18:07 theorbtwo No, the question is when it gets javascript functions.
18:07 theorbtwo ...on read, not on write.
18:12 * Limbic_Region wonder if theorbtwo is applying for pinky's job or the brain's
18:12 theorbtwo Hm.  Pinky seems to have a lot more fun.
18:36 gaal what introspection do we have now? ::Foo.package doesn't include installed subs; is there soemthing that does?
18:36 gaal ?eval package Foo; ::Foo.perl
18:37 gaal ?eval package Foo; sub xxx {} ::Foo.perl
18:37 gaal where's evalbot? :(
18:53 gaal where is MMD implemented?
18:54 gaal I think the problem may be that the exporter isn't requalifting the subName field
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19:19 Alias_ WTF, spam
19:21 gaal on the *internet*? no!
19:21 Alias_ on IRC
19:22 Alias_ opers promoting open source products
19:23 gaal oh, i hardly ever look at window 1 in irssi :)
19:23 Alias_ I get it in whatever the current one is
19:24 gaal arghhhh! my symbol *is* installed as a multi
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19:24 gaal but dispatch still doesn't work
19:25 gaal hmmmm though: in the original module, the name installed to is fully qualified. trying that...
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22:23 dduncan here's a funny little vid: http://www.apple.com/intel/ads/
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22:30 stevan dduncan: :)
22:32 dduncan I'm gonna get me one of those ... yes I am ...
22:32 * stevan ponders the same
22:32 dduncan the portable specifically
22:32 dduncan or I'll wait a few months for the iBook successor having intel, which is cheaper
22:32 * stevan agrees :)
22:33 stevan dduncan: although with apple it is usually good to wait a few months after the first ones are out,.. just so they get the kinks out
22:33 dduncan sure
22:33 dduncan though I generally wanted to be among the early adopters ... first models ... barring something really awful
22:34 dduncan will watch for reports on macfixit and such places
22:34 xah i got my imac in 2005 Oct
22:35 xah now i felt like being ripped off
22:35 xah the new imac is all the same, same price, but 2 or 3 times faster.
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22:39 * stevan sees lawsuits in dduncan's future (http://www.apple.com/rosetta/) :P
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22:43 xah huh?
22:46 dduncan steven, I doubt there will be any lawsuits
22:46 dduncan first of all, that's a very generic word
22:46 dduncan second, I announced publically I would be using that name in jan/feb of 2003; Apple did it in june of 2005, so I was first
22:47 dduncan I have no intention to sue them, and they have no right to sue me
22:47 dduncan jan/feb 2003 is when I officially registered 'Rosetta' with the perl 5 module list, fyi
22:48 dduncan in any event, while I have considered changing the name of my module, it won't be because of Apple, but because 'Rosetta' is very generic
22:49 dduncan but if I do that, it won't be any time soon
22:50 stevan dduncan: you should call it Cocoa to get back at Steve Jobs :P
22:51 dduncan any new name has to be either descriptive of purpose, or unique to be branded
22:51 stevan iDBI :P
22:51 dduncan besides, Apple is only using "Rosetta" as an "under the hood" type name, like they used "Altivec"; they don't use it for any public brand
22:52 dduncan actually, plain "DBI" is a good name, but Tim Bunce is already using it
22:52 dduncan oh, I just put up a new smoke, following my file rearrangements
22:53 dduncan r8580, Normal runcore, darwin
22:55 dduncan all the tests of my components in ext cleanly pass
22:55 stevan dduncan: do  you know if the intel version of OS X runs on vanilla Intel machine?
22:55 dduncan yes and no
22:56 stevan explain please
22:56 dduncan some enterprising third parties have gotten X 10.4.1 and 10.4.2 to work on vanilla intel, but it's not a trivially easy task
22:57 dduncan Apple has built Mac OS X to check for certain hardware signitures that would be in its own hardware, and refuse to run if not there ...
22:57 dduncan or just refuse to install
22:57 stevan yeah I would expect something like that
22:57 dduncan Apple's official policy is that Mac OS X is for their own hardware only
22:57 stevan after all Apple is a hardware company first
22:58 dduncan doubtless, third parties will get it to work on other hardware, but Apple just wants to make this difficult enough that few people will actually do it
22:58 dduncan on the other side of the coin, Apple has no problems with people running other operating systems, Windows et al, on their Mac hardware, but they also will provide no support for this
22:59 dduncan and some sites I read said that vanilla Windows did run on their Intel Mac test boxen
22:59 dduncan as for Linux, well it already runs on everything
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23:26 xinming But the problem is, If the signature is a Bios-like thing, or, It is in fact stored in Bios. then, I believe people can break this protection in at most half a year. :-)
23:26 xinming hmm, I don't mean patch the OS.
23:27 xinming Windows Xp is a good example.
23:30 SamB windows XP is supposed to run on everything
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23:31 xinming hmm, Yes, I mean for the OEM version of Windows Xp, Some people download the oem version of windows, and change a signature in Bios to install the OEM version.
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