Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2006-02-05

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

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04:57 Supaplex hey folks =)
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05:48 gaal are we going to have a printf == print sprintf builtin?
05:48 svnbot6 r8954 | gaal++ | PPT printf.p6 - implementation
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08:25 nothingmuch help
08:25 nothingmuch i have a writer's block
08:26 nothingmuch http://www.osdc.org.il/talk.html?id=7
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10:55 azuroth ?eval $a = [1,2,3]; $a .= [1]; say $a
10:55 evalbot_8949 is now known as evalbot_8954
10:55 evalbot_8954 Error:  unexpected "." expecting operator, postfix conditional, postfix loop, postfix iteration, ";" or end of input
10:56 azuroth ?eval $a = "a" say $a.upper
10:56 evalbot_8954 Error:  unexpected "s" expecting operator, ">>=><<", "\187=>\171", "=>", "::=", "**=", "xx=", "||=", "&&=", "//=", "^^=", "+&=", "+|=", "+^=", "~&=", "~|=", "~^=", "?|=", "?^=", ":=", "~=", "+=", "-=", "*=", "/=", "%=", "x=", "Y=", "\165=", "|=", "^=", "&=", "=", postfix conditional, postfix loop, postfix iteration, ";" or end of input
10:57 azuroth whoops :-)
10:57 azuroth ?eval $a = "a"; say $a.upper
10:57 evalbot_8954 Error: Undeclared variable: "$a"
10:57 azuroth ?eval my $a = "a"; say $a.upper
10:57 evalbot_8954 Error: No such method in class Str: "&upper"
10:57 azuroth ?eval my $a = "a"; say $a.toUpper
10:57 evalbot_8954 Error: No such method in class Str: "&toUpper"
10:59 azuroth ?eval my $a = "a"; say $a.toupper
10:59 evalbot_8954 Error: No such method in class Str: "&toupper"
10:59 azuroth ?eval my $a = "ab"; say $a.chomp
10:59 evalbot_8954 OUTPUT[ab ] bool::true
11:00 azuroth ?eval my $a = "ab"; say $a.chop
11:00 evalbot_8954 OUTPUT[a ] bool::true
11:00 azuroth ?eval my $a = "ab"; $a .= chop; say $a
11:01 evalbot_8954 OUTPUT[a ] bool::true
11:01 azuroth ?eval my $a = "ab"; $a .= [0]; say $a
11:01 evalbot_8954 Error:  unexpected "." expecting operator, postfix conditional, postfix loop, postfix iteration, ";" or end of input
11:01 azuroth ?eval my $a = "ab"; $a .= ([]) 0; say $a
11:01 evalbot_8954 Error:  unexpected "." expecting operator, postfix conditional, postfix loop, postfix iteration, ";" or end of input
11:03 azuroth ?eval my $a = "ab"; $a .= substr 1; say $a
11:03 evalbot_8954 Error:  unexpected "1" expecting operator, postfix conditional, postfix loop, postfix iteration, ";" or end of input
11:03 azuroth I should be using pugs, shouldn't I?
11:07 xinming azuroth: You are not using haskell definitely. :-)
11:07 xinming my $a = "ABCDEFG"; $a.lc.say;
11:07 xinming ?eval my $a = "ABCDEFG"; $a.lc.say;
11:07 azuroth aha
11:07 evalbot_8954 OUTPUT[abcdefg ] bool::true
11:08 xinming ?eval $a = "abcdefg"; $a.uc;
11:08 xinming ;-)
11:08 evalbot_8954 Error: Undeclared variable: "$a"
11:08 azuroth [] is a method though, so maybe  .= [1] should work?
11:08 xinming ?eval my$a = "abcdefg"; $a.uc;
11:08 xinming ?eval my $a = "abcdefg"; $a.uc;
11:08 evalbot_8954 "ABCDEFG"
11:08 azuroth I'm not sure whether it's in the synopses or not though, to be honest
11:08 evalbot_8954 "ABCDEFG"
11:09 azuroth is there a tc? title case? ;-p
11:11 xinming ?eval sub tc ($s is copy) { $s ~~ s/./{uc $/}/; $s }; (tc "abcdef").say
11:11 xinming :-)
11:11 xinming :-P
11:11 evalbot_8954 OUTPUT[Abcdef ] bool::true
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11:13 azuroth sneaky :-p
11:17 theorbtwo Careful: In some languages, titlecase and uppercase aren't the same thing.
11:17 theorbtwo (I don't know /what/ languages...)
11:17 nothingmuch seen audreyt?
11:17 jabbot nothingmuch: audreyt was seen 1 days 5 hours 53 minutes 30 seconds ago
11:18 xinming theorbtwo: hmm, are you free? I've got a problem in debugging, I don't know if it is a bug in pugs, But I really can't catch it.
11:18 azuroth hmm. I guess that makes sense, theorb
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12:18 nothingmuch i have a yucky problem with C++ here
12:18 azuroth oh?
12:18 nothingmuch i'd like to see how well it could be resolved in Perl
12:18 nothingmuch (6)
12:18 nothingmuch i have an object
12:19 nothingmuch and I need to add an interface to it
12:19 nothingmuch send/receive (serializability to a filehandle)
12:19 nothingmuch first of all i see that send/receive themselves will be much simpler due to introspection
12:20 nothingmuch i could just iterate the attributes
12:20 nothingmuch second, decorating the class with this interface automaticallly
12:20 nothingmuch third, applying the send/receive interface to all the classes within my class's members
12:20 nothingmuch (automatically)
12:21 nothingmuch lastly, getting compile time errors if a member in my class is not sendable/receivable, because it's a filehandle or something like that
12:21 nothingmuch as I see it this is duck typing
12:21 nothingmuch err
12:21 nothingmuch a problem for duck typing
12:21 nothingmuch if I just treat my class as if it does that
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12:21 nothingmuch then it tries to apply send/receive to that class
12:22 nothingmuch food for thought
12:22 nothingmuch maybe I should p6l
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12:25 azuroth maybe something like... for each member, ~~ Serializable { $obj.send($fh); } ~~ Int { ... } ~~ String { ... } but no
12:26 azuroth what do you mean by automatically decorating the class?
12:26 nothingmuch well
12:26 nothingmuch i declare the serializable interface
12:26 nothingmuch in one place
12:26 nothingmuch and if i demand this interface in another place
12:26 nothingmuch from any class
12:26 nothingmuch then that class automatically gets it
12:26 nothingmuch think of it as a universal role
12:28 azuroth what... $a = Monkey.new(); $a.serialize($fh) # $a now does Serializable ?
12:28 scook0 nothingmuch: sounds like deep magic
12:28 scook0 were you thinking of this taking place at compile-time, or run-time?
12:28 nothingmuch azuroth: err, yes =)
12:28 nothingmuch except perhbaps i need to declare my Serializable $a = Monkey.new;
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12:31 nothingmuch stevan: ping
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12:40 nothingmuch sent
12:40 azuroth to p6l?
12:41 nothingmuch yes
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12:54 scook0 nothingmuch: incidentally, I'm pretty sure "inference" only has one 'r'
12:54 nothingmuch scook0: i always do that =)
12:54 nothingmuch sorry
12:56 scook0 I remember intending to correct you on the same thing quite a while ago, and always forgetting to actually do so :)
13:00 nothingmuch )
13:00 nothingmuch =)
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13:55 nothingmuch http://www.oooms.nl/
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15:19 Juerd Hm
15:19 Juerd Once upon a time, feather built pugs automatically, and typing "pugs" would start a very recent revision
15:20 Juerd Now, it uses a debian package, which updates at release interval.
15:20 Juerd And the automatic building is broken even.
15:20 Juerd What have I missed?
15:20 * Juerd prefers the old situation (pre-october)
15:21 Juerd I now finally understand some of the complaints.
15:21 Juerd (People don't all want to build their own pugses and parrots, many people just want to test drive Perl 6)
15:22 Juerd I guess I'll do the automatic stuff myself again.
15:22 gaal sneaky little pugses and parrotses
15:23 Juerd Hell, the script that did the automatic builds no longer even exists, it seems.
15:24 gaal it doesn't? look in ~eric256 ?
15:25 Juerd All there's left is automatic smoking.
15:26 Juerd Which wasn't the point of the automatic builds. It's certainly nice to have, but accessible pugs was the primary reason to have automatic building.
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15:42 gaal for me autosmokes are an immense benefit
15:43 gaal because I don't have to remember to do one half of the regression test :-)
15:43 gaal how does it do autosmoking if it doesn't do autobuilding? :)
15:44 gaal you can probably prepend eric's directory to your path and get a recent pugs
15:45 Juerd No, it's not about me.
15:45 Juerd I don't care if I have to build pugs myself.
15:45 Juerd It's for the users of feather. It's a service I once provided, and then handed over to eric256.
15:45 Juerd I never installed the debian package.
15:45 Juerd So things happened without me being aware, and as you may know, I don't like monitoring what other people do.
15:45 Juerd So I'm just going to do it myself again
15:46 Juerd People should be able to login and run pugs, and test some things to see if they're supported yet.
15:47 Juerd The most recent pugs I can find in ~eric256/auto is from December
15:48 Juerd eric256 hasn't logged in for a while
15:49 Juerd Last login Nov 15
15:50 gaal i thought i saw recent linux smokes? who submits those?
15:50 Juerd From the looks of it, eric's autosmoke has been broken since December
15:50 Juerd An svk locking issue
15:50 gaal I may have been wrong. In any case, I encourage you to also put smokes into the cycle, if you take back autobuild.
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15:51 Juerd I'll probably do that. I have been under the impression that eric256 did these things.
15:51 Juerd gaal: Whereto are these smokes submitted?
15:51 * gaal hopes eric has not been eaten by a grue
15:51 gaal Juerd: smoke.pugscode.org
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15:52 gaal you can have that automatically after 'make smoke' by adding one line to config.yml
15:52 Juerd Nice
15:53 gaal very.
15:53 Juerd http://feather.perl6.nl/~eric256/t_index/ is updated often, but as far as I can tell, it's been operating on the same revision for months :)
15:54 gaal :)
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15:56 nothingmuch_ fucking guy!
15:56 nothingmuch_ seen audreyt?
15:56 jabbot nothingmuch_: audreyt was seen 1 days 10 hours 31 minutes 41 seconds ago
15:56 * nothingmuch_ hates the cable carrier
15:56 nothingmuch_ HATE HAT HATE
15:57 nothingmuch_ is now known as nothingmuch
16:00 Juerd For a moment I thought "hey, that eric256 guy IS logged in, and he's even watching top..."
16:00 Juerd But then I realised "Oh, that's me, still working under his uid"
16:01 gaal $$.head.bonk
16:02 * gaal goes home &
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16:22 Juerd It appears that "make smoke" is part of debian/rules binary.
16:22 Juerd Weird, but useful in this case.
16:22 Juerd It does take quite a while.
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16:43 gaal still less than GHC :)
16:43 gaal Juerd, is feather SMP by any chance?
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19:34 Juerd gaal: No
19:34 Juerd gaal: Though if you happen to have hardware to donate... :)
19:49 Juerd windows--  # learn to multitask
19:53 Juerd I'll try autobuilding again later.
19:53 Juerd Things don't currently debian-compile out of the box.
19:53 Juerd Next attempt will be debless, to see if that will work.
19:57 Juerd Thank you. An email will be sent to you with the URL for the requested download.
19:57 Juerd No, fuckers, I want it NOW.
19:58 Juerd Ah, there it is.
19:58 Juerd Another minute wasted.
19:58 Juerd Grr.
19:58 Juerd Just in case you also want it, don't bother with the form, http://bits.xensource.com/ISO/latest/xen-3.0-demo-livecd-3.0.iso
19:58 obra can Xen run unmodded windows these days?
19:59 szbalint Heh. It blows the mind that someone wants an email address for a download.
19:59 obra szbalint: why? It's pretty standard in the "and we want to talk to you later, and maybe sell you stuff" sense.
19:59 obra (Assuming it's optional)
20:00 szbalint Yeah, the emphasis is on optional. :)
20:00 obra Sure. non-optional makes me squick. But I expect RT will have such an (optional) thing within a couple months if my sales person has something to say about it
20:00 Juerd obra: Only with special inter CPUs supporting some kind of virtualization technology.
20:01 obra ah :/
20:01 Juerd obra: It wasn't optional in this case.
20:01 obra eit
20:01 Juerd obra: To get this GPL'ed software, I had to give my address.
20:01 Juerd That's highly unusual, and deeply disturbs me.
20:01 obra There's nothing preventing them from doing that.
20:01 Juerd That is entirely correct.
20:01 obra I've seen it before. But yes, now you're free to redist it
20:02 Juerd However, I do happen to hate those forms.
20:02 Juerd And I don't wish to associate such negative feelings with open source software, that generally is distributed in a user friendlier way.
20:02 leo_____ is now known as LeTo
20:04 Juerd obra: Re optional fields: I generally do leave my address
20:05 Juerd But: I want to continue to download directly, and not have to wait for mail.
20:05 Juerd I expected the same here :|
20:25 gaal so, has anyone done some design work on embedding haskell in p6? we have eval :lang<haskell>, but that looks like an interpreter, and you can't seem to import modules from there.
20:26 gaal I see we aren't squeezing everything we could out of System.Eval.eval_
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23:34 wolverian hm, STATUS needs updating

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