Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2006-02-07

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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02:34 ingy hola
02:39 stevan_ heya ingy
02:52 ingy hi stevan_
02:53 ingy stevan_: I just ported tt2 to js
02:53 stevan_ tt2? Template Toolkit??
02:53 ingy yeah
02:53 stevan_ thats cool,.. totally nuts,.. but cool :)
02:53 ingy Jemplate
02:54 stevan_ is this for Kwiki?
02:54 ingy no it's totally sane
02:54 ingy it uses tt's parser
02:54 ingy with a JS backend
02:54 stevan_ Ajax?
02:54 ingy nope
02:55 * stevan_ is confused
02:55 ingy you compile all your TT2 templates into a single foo.js
02:55 ingy and then there is a small Jemplate.js
02:55 stevan_ oh
02:55 ingy EOS
02:55 stevan_ that is insane
02:55 ingy QED
02:55 ingy etc
02:55 ingy insane but simple
02:56 stevan_ so how does it get displayed?
02:56 stevan_ does the browser handle it all?
02:57 ingy =head1 SYNOPSIS
02:57 ingy var data = fetchSomeJsonResult(); var elem = document.getElementById('some-div'); elem.innerHTML = Jemplate.process('my-template.html', data);
02:57 ingy hmm, that messed up
02:58 ingy http://rafb.net/paste/results/Qcy1mR77.txt
02:58 stevan_ that is completely insane :)
02:59 stevan_ totally cool,.. but totally nuts :)
02:59 ingy thanks
02:59 ingy now I need to finish it ;)
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03:19 svnbot6 r8955 | yiyihu++ | Add a test for a bug which cause pugs "hang".
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04:52 meppl guten morgen
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06:06 Supaplex elo meppl
06:08 Supaplex I just finished off a 32oz glass of dreamy chocolate milk *mmm*
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07:41 meppl good morning supaplex
07:41 meppl i take a shower now
07:47 nothingmuch wow
07:47 nothingmuch http://www.mountainwerks.o​rg/cma/2003/ptarmigan.htm
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08:01 dduncan ooooo  pritty!
08:11 wolverian make clean didn't fix the weird make test errors on fbsd
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08:17 wolverian heh, "lambdacamel combinators".
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08:41 gaal wolverian: where? :)
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08:45 wolverian gaal, larry's post in the quasiquoting thread
08:45 wolverian IIRC
08:45 wolverian (my memory spans about ten minute)
08:45 wolverian s
08:46 gaal wolverian: thanks :)
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09:21 svnbot6 r8956 | Darren_Duncan++ |  r2375@darren-duncans-power-mac-g4:  darrenduncan | 2006-02-07 01:16:38 -0800
09:21 svnbot6 r8956 | Darren_Duncan++ |  /ext/Rosetta : begun rewrite of Language.pod; renamed Rosetta's native language from 'IRL' to 'Rosetta D' (it will now officially implement The Third Manifesto)
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09:30 * rafl reads some computer-oriented programming lectures slides to prepare himself for an exam
09:30 rafl recursive c program: public void (...)
09:30 rafl D'OH!
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09:35 rafl Hi kane_
09:35 kane_ morning rafl
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09:41 dduncan good morning to y'all also
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11:07 Juerd rafl: Recursion is possible using globals, you know ;)
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11:52 rafl Juerd: I already heared from a thing called stack. This sounds really dangerous.. always setting up a stack frame and so on.
11:52 rafl Juerd: Therefor globals seem to be much more sane!
11:53 Juerd Yeah
11:53 Juerd Exactly
11:53 Juerd Though I'd use a single global, a struct named stack :)
11:56 KingDiamond|away is now known as KingDiamond
12:02 gaal Interesting talk: http://www.st.cs.uni-sb.de/edu/semin​are/2005/advanced-fp/docs/sweeny.pdf
12:07 gaal # "The Next Mainstream Programming Languages: A Game Developer's Perspective"
12:08 wolverian reading it.. interesting
12:10 rafl What will be the next mainstream programming language?
12:11 lypie python!
12:11 * lypie chuckles evilly
12:11 Juerd I don't get what people like in Python.
12:12 rafl Cool libraries like pygame for example.
12:13 wolverian heh it talks about stm too :) so exciting.
12:16 lypie Juerd: nor i
12:16 wolverian what the heck is lenient evaluation?
12:16 azuroth Juerd: I like python because I can convince my classmates to use it, and it's not ...well... C++
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12:18 azuroth or to clarify, it's almost perl and ruby's mutually recursive baby
12:24 Juerd Huh?
12:24 Juerd No. Perl and Ruby rock, Python sucks. There can't be a connection, especially not a natural one.
12:24 theorbtwo That was supposed to be /clearer/?
12:25 azuroth :-)
12:25 Aankhen`` I detest forced whitespace, but I like pretty much everything else (that I've seen) of Python.
12:25 azuroth what's so bad about python?
12:27 azuroth I haven't done much, and what I've seen does suck in comparison, but when it's C++ or python, I'm willing to give it a shot
12:28 * lypie would prefer c++ honestly
12:28 lypie Aankhen``: yeah. its the forced whitespace that made me in the 1.5.1 give the **** up on the langage
12:28 lypie yoyo chris2
12:29 azuroth I have to admit though, that I'm likely only tainted by using wxwidgets and win32 API for GUIs.
12:32 chris2 hi lypie
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14:17 audreyt yo
14:17 wolverian evening
14:18 audreyt sorry I was away... $job, cyclic dependencies in visa application (had to choose betwen .il and .de/.at but not both)
14:18 audreyt and fighting with mainstream media
14:18 audreyt to try to not get misrepresented
14:18 wolverian no reason to be sorry, it's your life :)
14:18 audreyt but I'm not enjoying this ;)
14:18 wolverian right.. :) I'm sorry it's been hard for you
14:18 audreyt so it's like, I feel sorry for myself :p
14:18 wolverian what media?
14:18 audreyt some random newspaper
14:18 audreyt pretty major one though
14:19 wolverian what country?
14:19 audreyt .tw, my native country
14:19 wolverian right. well, media sucks, in general :)
14:19 audreyt indeed :)
14:20 wolverian random observation: when using the mouse with your other hand, the cursor seems to be the wrong way around
14:20 audreyt indeed
14:20 webmind wolverian, intresting :)
14:21 audreyt gaal: .il denied me multi entry, citing that I didn't have the .de visa
14:21 wolverian I absolutely adore nipple mice though - it's easy to use even with my left hand.
14:21 wolverian (s/nipple/clit/, maybe)
14:21 audreyt gaal: and .de wouldn't grant me visa without a visa in my midpoint country, .il
14:21 wolverian ouch
14:21 audreyt isn't bootstrapping fun :)
14:21 webmind wolverian, can't say I have that problem.. but it might be that I don't use both my eyes at the same time
14:21 szbalint hey audreyt
14:21 wolverian webmind, the cursor thing
14:21 wolverian ?
14:21 webmind byes
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14:21 audreyt szbalint: yo
14:21 webmind -b
14:23 Juerd audreyt: Does the mainstream media thing have to do with Pugs?
14:24 audreyt Juerd: not at all.
14:24 Juerd I see
14:25 Juerd wolverian: Feel free to call them "G spots"
14:26 Juerd wolverian: Though I don't know if that's related to the QWERTY configuration's G location, or to some other thing :)
14:26 wolverian I'm not that friendly with my thinkpad.. yet..
14:26 Juerd Oh, I am
14:26 wolverian :)
14:26 gaal audreyt: aahhhhhh!!!!
14:26 Juerd With my own thinkpad, just for the record :)
14:26 * szbalint adds dvorak to his todo list
14:26 szbalint I always wanted to learn to use that kind of keyboard :)
14:26 Juerd .oO( interesting greeting there, gaal )
14:27 Juerd szbalint: Use dvorak.nl, authored by yours truly
14:27 Juerd szbalint: And feel free to ask for advice or support during your training
14:27 obra 'morning
14:27 Juerd Hi, obra
14:27 gaal how about single entry .il, get a .de visa here? pressured :(
14:27 gaal and the way back remains unresolved
14:28 * szbalint looks
14:28 lypie hey audreyt :)
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14:31 lypie Juerd: thats pretty damn cool (dvorak.nl)
14:31 Juerd Thanks
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14:33 audreyt gaal: indeed, I'd need two visas
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14:33 audreyt gaal: two additional ones done in .il -- actually three if you consider .at
14:33 audreyt (but schengen should cover me there) but in any case this is too tight :/ we'll talk about it in realspace
14:33 Juerd visa--
14:34 wolverian one good aspect of eu (schengen)..
14:34 gaal audreyt: still time to secure the single-entry .il visa, I hope?
14:34 Juerd wolverian: It's pathetic that it's needed, really
14:34 gaal Visa.hs-boot
14:34 xinming audreyt: hmm, will utf-8 support being added after perl 6 boot-straped?
14:34 wolverian Juerd, yes. people suck
14:36 xinming audreyt: pugs now can't handle the utf-8 file. :-(
14:36 gaal xinming: huh? i thought it could *only* hadnle utf-8
14:37 wolverian maybe he means that it doesn't handle » etc
14:37 xinming audreyt: and It was really amazing that how much the rule pugs supports. :-) Have lots of fun trying rules. :-)
14:37 xinming gaal: No, It won't, hmm, at least, It won't handle the Chinese utf-8 character correctly.
14:38 xinming wolverian: No, I mean Chinese character. Today, I try to slurp a text file, It goes unreadable.
14:49 audreyt xinming: hmm, utf8 in source file should be fine
14:49 xinming audreyt: Yes. but not in external file.
14:49 audreyt gaal: yeah, Iconsidered calling my journal title Visa.hs-boot just this hour
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15:23 stevan_ hey audreyt :)
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15:23 stevan_ hey nothingmuch
15:24 audreyt stevan_: yo
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15:28 audreyt stevan_: I'm going to sleep now...
15:28 stevan_ audreyt: sweet dreams
15:28 * stevan_ is drowning in $work anyway ,.. just saying hello
15:30 * stevan_ curses incomplete @data, and $clients who insist the UI should Just Work when encountering it
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15:41 Aankhen`` stennie: just_work()
15:44 stennie aankhen``: eh?
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15:47 Aankhen`` Er, sorry, badly aimed Tab.
15:47 Aankhen`` That was meant for stevan_.
15:49 stennie heh, np ;)
15:50 stevan_ Stevan.stops_whining() & Stevan.just_works()   :)
15:50 Aankhen`` Heh.
15:51 Aankhen`` Actually, I meant s/Just Work/just_work()/ to stay in the spirit of the thing.
15:53 stevan_ UI.just_work() || die;
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18:57 * Limbic_Region has a bit of a favor to ask
18:57 * Limbic_Region is a Dad as of Sunday evening
18:57 Aankhen`` No.
18:57 Aankhen`` Never.
18:57 Aankhen`` Wow, congrats!
18:58 Limbic_Region a little girl, Jasmine,
18:58 Limbic_Region unfortunately, I used perlmonk.org (which has been done for some time now) to host my web page
18:58 Limbic_Region my family is a thousand miles away and my wife's is even further
18:58 Limbic_Region I was wondering if anyone wouldn't mind hosting a static HTML page for me and a handful of pictures
18:58 Limbic_Region ?
18:59 Limbic_Region thanks Aankhen
19:03 avar how large?
19:03 avar & how long?
19:03 Limbic_Region 6 pounds 15 1/2 ounces
19:03 Limbic_Region 19 1/2 inches
19:03 avar no, the web page
19:03 Khisanth heh
19:04 avar or is this some .us measurement of file sizes & time?;)
19:05 Limbic_Region static HTML will be only a couple dozen bytes and the pics would be circa a couple of meg
19:05 Limbic_Region would need it hosted for a solid 2 weeks
19:05 avar sure, I'll host it
19:05 Limbic_Region thanks!!!!!
19:05 Limbic_Region let me build the page and size the images and when I am ready to upload I will /msg you?
19:06 avar sure
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19:48 szbalint Congrats Limbic_Region.
19:49 szbalint (I see your hosting is sorted :)
19:53 Limbic_Region yep
19:53 Limbic_Region thanks
19:54 kolibrie szbalint: I used Juerd's dvorak.nl tutor - works great
19:58 szbalint kolibrie: Yeah, It seems great.
19:59 * kolibrie has been typing dvorak for about three months now
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20:43 lypanov Limbic_Region: congratz!
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21:29 nothingmuch kolibrie: how's it going?
21:30 * nothingmuch spammed perl 6 language bigtime
21:30 nothingmuch with flame bait, too
21:30 kolibrie nothingmuch: not bad at the moment.  finishing up one work project, then maybe I can relax a little bit and get back to pugs
21:31 * kolibrie wants to talk about data extraction using grammars sometime
21:34 * nothingmuch wishes he had time for pugs
21:34 * nothingmuch wishes he had time period
21:34 nothingmuch talk at a conf or something?
21:35 kolibrie no, figure out how they work
21:36 kolibrie of course, once I figure it out a little more, I wouldn't mind sharing at a conference
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21:37 * kolibrie decides that would definitely be fun
21:38 Limbic_Region thanks lypanov
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21:40 nothingmuch kolibrie: btw, did you consider coming to OSDC::IL::2006?
21:41 obra  nothingmuch that's quite an email
21:41 nothingmuch obra: aye
21:41 nothingmuch i hope it's not too yucky
21:42 * nothingmuch expects to get some bad feedback for it
21:42 obra It's a little unclear how much you mean "pugs" when you say "perl6"
21:42 obra and how much you mean "parrot, ponie and pge"
21:42 nothingmuch i discuss pugs later
21:42 integral oh, I said that kind of stuff once here, no one seemed interested *sigh*
21:42 nothingmuch parrot is less
21:42 nothingmuch but still in there
21:43 nothingmuch pge is part of the "making it faster"
21:43 nothingmuch we are at "making it work"
21:43 nothingmuch i think we need "making it work right"
21:43 nothingmuch and then "making it faster"
21:43 integral hmm, some of your pugs comments are about the direction pugs is moving anyway with PIR and layers
21:43 nothingmuch as I see it "making it work right" is difficult to achieve if we don't concentrate specifics
21:43 nothingmuch integral: ofcourse
21:43 obra Well, there are basically two parallel implementations. Parrot/PGE and "Pugs which embraces everything"
21:44 nothingmuch it's noting new
21:44 integral it's just that you don't make clear that pugs is already doing this
21:44 nothingmuch obra: pugs is a testbed, as I see it
21:44 nothingmuch and a bootstrapping tool
21:44 nothingmuch and everything at the moment
21:44 nothingmuch parrot and pge are IMHO too low level to be useful right now
21:44 nothingmuch but it's good that they're being developed because they save time later
21:45 nothingmuch anyway, please read fully
21:45 nothingmuch i think i touch on most of these issues in a way
21:45 * integral doesn't think much will come of it
21:46 nothingmuch i think the most crucial parts are much lower though
21:46 nothingmuch in that Perl 6 is just too big to get it all done
21:46 integral I predict that someone will point out that pmichaud is already taking submissions to update the synopses as things get decided,  and there will be a big argument about how to split it into layers
21:46 dduncan nothingmuch, I just saw your p6l post
21:46 kolibrie nothingmuch: no, I'm taking my family to the Netherlands in March, so that uses up all vacation time and 'extra' money
21:46 nothingmuch kolibrie: ah
21:46 nothingmuch is it already too late for them to smoke weed there?
21:47 dduncan I will withhold comments for the moment, as I haven't thought the matters through
21:47 kolibrie nothingmuch: we don't do that!
21:47 nothingmuch kolibrie: but it's the netherlands ;-)
21:47 kolibrie nothingmuch: true, a lot of stuff goes there
21:49 stevan_ is now known as stevan
21:49 nothingmuch anyway, i'm off to bed, i think
21:49 kolibrie nothingmuch: good night
21:49 stevan so,.. just toss a big one over the fence and go to sleep
21:49 stevan *sigh* kids
21:49 nothingmuch =)
21:49 obra heh
21:50 * stevan tosses it back over at nothingmuch
21:50 nothingmuch it's not polite to wake people up by throwing cows at them
21:51 kolibrie stevan: maybe you want to fund kolibrie's conference fund
21:51 * stevan enjoys a game of cow vollyball with nothingmuch
21:51 stevan kolibrie: if you fund mine,.. I will fund yours
21:51 kolibrie stevan: sounds like a plan
21:52 nothingmuch kolibrie: what about getting $work to do it?
21:52 * stevan starts to make plans for a worldwide conference tour funded by kolibrie Inc.
21:52 DesreveR is now known as r0nny
21:53 kolibrie nothingmuch: right, it was tricky enough getting to YAPC::NA
21:53 nothingmuch anyway
21:54 nothingmuch off to bed fo real
21:54 nothingmuch *for
21:54 stevan kolibrie: I will call up, pretend to be your client in chicago and tell your boss I need you there pronto! or I will take my business elsewhere
21:54 stevan by the time they realize,.. you will be on a plane
21:54 kolibrie stevan: awesome
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22:45 dduncan question ...
22:45 dduncan in Perl 5, the use of back-tick string delimiters indicated a system command to run
22:46 dduncan in Perl 6, I don't think this exists anymore
22:46 dduncan are back-ticks currently used for anything in Perl 6?
22:46 obra Does larry say it doesn't exist in perl6 explicitly?
22:46 obra Because if not, it does
22:46 dduncan I meant, does a back-tick delimited string have any special meaning right now?
22:47 dduncan I'm not aware of that being the case, but thought I would check
22:48 dduncan I thought that invoking the shell like that was something excised from the core language like formats and put in a module instead
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23:36 dduncan ?eval my $::<x y> = 3; say $::<x y>;
23:36 evalbot_8954 is now known as evalbot_8956
23:36 evalbot_8956 Error:  unexpected ":" expecting "$!"
23:38 dduncan ?eval my $foo = 3; say $::<foo>;
23:38 evalbot_8956 Error:  unexpected "$" expecting block construct, ":", "(", "!", "/", "^", "*", "?", ".", "+", ";", word character, term postfix, operator, postfix conditional, postfix loop, postfix iteration or end of input
23:38 dduncan hmm, this still needs implementing, it seems
23:39 dduncan I'll see if a test exists ...
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23:44 xinming what's the difference between `sub foo( $n, &block ) { ... };' and `sub foo( $n, *&block ) { ... }' ?
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