Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2006-02-20

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

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01:54 stevan_ audreyt: two papers on traits in C#,.. looks like there might some good stuff for Roles, including a flattening calculus
01:54 stevan_ http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~scg/cgi-bin/scgbib.cgi?query=stefan+reichhart+traits
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03:37 ingy while (NaN != NaN) { x++ }
03:38 hcchien ingy!
03:38 ingy hola hcchien
03:39 hcchien ingy: what is your talk in YAPC::Asia?
03:39 ingy I forget. ask miyagawa :p
03:40 ingy I think I have 3
03:40 hcchien then what do you want to talk in OSDC.tw?
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04:03 ingy hcchien: Jemplate and Wikiwyg
04:03 ingy :)
04:09 hcchien ingy: 2 sessions? :)
04:09 * hcchien have no idea about Jemplate. :p
04:49 miyagawa Wikiwyg, Perldoc and Jemplate
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05:18 svnbot6 r9068 | audreyt++ | * Amazingly, DrIFT.YAML's Bool instance loaded "1" as False,
05:18 svnbot6 r9068 | audreyt++ |   "0" as True, thus disrupting the very fabric of universe
05:18 svnbot6 r9068 | audreyt++ |   (in particular, prevented applying Prelude functions due
05:18 svnbot6 r9068 | audreyt++ |    to reversed parameter flags.)  Mea culpa.
05:21 svnbot6 r9069 | audreyt++ | * Makefile.PL: repair "make ghci" by building the syck/pcre/etc
05:21 svnbot6 r9069 | audreyt++ |   dependencies first.
05:24 svnbot6 r9070 | audreyt++ | * Prim.Yaml: &code.yaml and other non-array, non-hash
05:24 svnbot6 r9070 | audreyt++ |   elements is now serialized by simply calling to DrIFT.
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07:33 azuroth you remind me of my mother when you do that
07:48 gaal_ audreyt: so, the general precomp loading case (and Test.pm in particular) need a way to call the exporter
07:48 gaal_ you also mentioned something about closures there
07:48 gaal_ oh, of course, to solve the "my over state" issue
07:48 gaal_ is now known as gaal
07:54 audreyt yup
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08:14 gaal luqui had some thoughts about how to expose the exporter on the list sometime
08:14 gaal or maybe just that it ought to be exposed on the language level
08:15 gaal that implies an accessible scope object if I remember his mail correctly.
08:20 audreyt nod, which is part of an accessible Code object
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10:04 blm Can anyone here tell me what Punie is? It is something Allison Randall is working on.
10:05 Arathorn perl1 running on ponie
10:06 blm oh ok So it isnt perl6 related?
10:06 arcady a perl1 compiler written in parrot
10:06 Arathorn gah, parrot
10:06 * Arathorn applies coffee
10:06 arcady compiling to parrot
10:07 arcady not really perl6 related
10:07 arcady though presumably the official perl 6 compiler will be written with the same tools
10:07 blm PGE is perl6 related?
10:07 arcady I'm fairly sure that it is
10:08 broquaint It's what Perl6 rules will almost certainly be bassed on, blm.
10:08 blm I think it is Perl6 Grammar Engine for regular expressions but I am not sure
10:09 Arathorn parrot grammar engine, iirc
10:09 blm Oh ok thanks :-)
10:10 arcady speaking of ponie, is it still alive?
10:10 blm I beleive so but they havent found a replacement pumpking yet :-(
10:10 bsb and kicking :)
10:12 arcady but the real question is: whom?
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10:15 blm whom?
10:17 Arathorn to who?
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12:42 Alias_ audreyt: ping?
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13:21 rafl audreyt: ping
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13:33 svnbot6 r9071 | fglock++ | iterator_engine.pl - finished coro-like engine; started a
13:33 svnbot6 r9071 | fglock++ | small p6-rule parser to test it
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14:15 svnbot6 r9072 | fglock++ | iterator_engine.pl - successfully compiles '<word>'
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14:20 Alias_ rafl: You know, I think she just hides these days :)
14:22 rafl Alias_: Which is really bad.
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14:43 svnbot6 r9073 | fglock++ | iterator_engine.pl - greedy match implemented using recursive match
14:43 gaal she's resting, in fact
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14:50 Alias_ oh right, israel... timezone change
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14:50 Alias_ just make sure to ban laptop usage in the car and while walking and make her socialise a little :)
15:01 gaal Alias_: huh? she fixed four bugs in the car yesterday after we picked up larry from the airport
15:01 Alias_ heh
15:01 Alias_ Well maybe the first intro period..
15:01 audreyt rehi
15:02 Arathorn talk of the devil :)
15:02 audreyt no, I'm not hiding, I'm just spending some time in this "outdoor" thing, now that I actually can see it
15:02 gaal and taste it
15:05 audreyt oy, indeed
15:05 Alias_ heh
15:05 Alias_ audreyt: ok, next set of questions
15:05 Alias_ audreyt: today it's recursion in MI
15:06 Alias_ What was the deal with CPAN.pm >= 1.83 before, and why has it stopped now and just goes off and uses CPANPLUS again
15:07 audreyt the deal was about sudo support I believe
15:07 audreyt and CPANPLUS was always preferred if it's installed, IIRC.
15:07 Alias_ ah, ok
15:07 Alias_ that's bad
15:08 Alias_ well, from an algorithmic point of view at least
15:08 Alias_ Also, lots of people seem to hate CPANPLUS (on a pure perception level)
15:08 audreyt feel free to revert it, but do note that 1)CPANPLUS-going-into-core is still the plan and 2)it won't affect existing modules
15:08 audreyt Alias_: I wonder what CPANPLUS is doing in their hard disk then.
15:09 Alias_ It's a "they try it, and it breaks" or "needed for $thing" thing
15:09 audreyt I can see an environment variable,or a prompt,or something
15:09 audreyt that denotes the preference
15:09 Alias_ I know about going core, but I think the preference needs to be first to use the SAME as what's already running
15:10 Alias_ So that the recursion logic and skip logic and such is consistent
15:10 audreyt ah. very good solid idea.
15:10 audreyt yes. I should've thunk of that
15:10 audreyt Alias_++
15:10 Alias_ Also, memory
15:10 audreyt already agreed :)
15:10 Alias_ oh, and cache files
15:10 Alias_ and double indexing
15:10 Alias_ :)
15:10 audreyt already agreed :) :)
15:10 * Alias_ rubs it in
15:11 Alias_ Fortunately, CPANPLUS leaves an environment variable
15:11 audreyt yup
15:11 audreyt and CPAN.pm leaves a lock
15:11 Alias_ (resisting rewriting AutoInstall as a plugin)
15:11 Alias_ because you can't make the newer features integrate
15:11 audreyt there is M::I::AI
15:11 rafl audreyt: Do you already know if you can appear at the GPW? Can you tell me how much about Perl 6, the language, you will tell in your Pugs talk?
15:12 audreyt rafl: greetings.
15:12 rafl Hello!
15:12 audreyt rafl: only this noon, that is 5 hours ago, did I learn that yes, I'll appear at the GPW.
15:13 rafl Great :-)
15:13 audreyt rafl: as for the language part, I note a certain rafl will cover it right after my talk
15:14 audreyt so my answer would be "as much and as few as rafl want it to be"
15:15 audreyt rafl: oh, however, I'll be forced to miss the 1st day of GPW
15:15 audreyt my flight lands at Dusseldorf at 9:20pm, March 1
15:15 theorbtwo Right /after/?  That seems like bad scheduling.
15:15 Alias_ audreyt: looking at the code in AutoInstall I'm not sure I understand it enough to change it (yet). Can you deal with this?
15:15 audreyt theorbtwo: and they don't even have flights on the night of 82th
15:16 audreyt 28th even
15:16 rafl audreyt: Unfortunately I didn't found time get the talk done yet. So I can't tell which things I'll cover which not. :-)
15:16 audreyt rafl: we can work it out over the nxt wk
15:16 rafl audreyt: That would be great.
15:17 rafl audreyt: I need an hour to get my Debian talk for the GPW done and then we can start if you have some tuits.
15:17 audreyt sure
15:17 audreyt gobby perhaps
15:18 rafl audreyt: Re 1st day: No problemo.. I'm almost sure I'll miss at least a part of the 3rd day. I need to go to the Chemnitzer Linux-Tage, which I partly organize.
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15:21 Alias_ aaahh...
15:21 * Alias_ finally understands why he had files that couldn't be removed
15:21 Alias_ So CPAN.pm runs sudo make?
15:21 Alias_ that's kind of bad
15:21 Alias_ Because it leaves files hanging around owned by root :/
15:24 audreyt Alias_: I committed the "fix" (though it's untested) r104
15:24 audreyt the idea should be obvious though from the diff
15:24 audreyt enjoy
15:24 Alias_ You needed to specifically say it's untested?
15:24 Alias_ Is anything tested?
15:25 audreyt most things are tested informally, that is locally
15:25 Alias_ Also, testing this thing is going to suck
15:25 audreyt I didn't mean unit testing.
15:25 audreyt but just sanity-check testing
15:26 svnbot6 r9074 | gaal++ | * DrIFT.RuleYAML - some minor readability fixes
15:26 svnbot6 r9074 | gaal++ | * redrift .hs files with cosmetic change
15:26 Alias_ are you sure just deleting that line is all we need?
15:26 Arathorn apt-get install avahi-client
15:26 Arathorn meh
15:27 audreyt Alias_: I also changed one line
15:27 audreyt Alias_: I'm reasonably sure, but not 100%.
15:27 Alias_ ok
15:27 Alias_ I'll leave it in
15:27 Alias_ There's so many changes I think I need to do a devel release or five first anyway
15:29 audreyt five sounds good
15:29 audreyt and impressive
15:29 Alias_ two would be so cliche
15:30 audreyt hm, I'll miss the "Was stimmt mit Parrot und Perl 6 nicht?" talk
15:30 Alias_ Actually, I really just want to put the entire Perl toolchain on hold till PITA works
15:30 audreyt pity, I'd really like to learn was stimmt nicht
15:30 audreyt Alias_: *nod*
15:30 Alias_ getting closer too
15:30 audreyt though "devel release" for M::I is really oxymoronic
15:30 Alias_ I just discovered Andreas' APC :)
15:31 Alias_ heh, yeah :)
15:31 Alias_ oh, and something to ponder
15:31 Alias_ You don't have a way of saying a module's dep is "latest" do you
15:32 audreyt "0.0"
15:32 audreyt no?
15:32 audreyt oh wait
15:32 Alias_ Because I've been thinking over some of the algorithmic issues relating to tool chain development and bundles and such, and have some way of saying Module => -1 would be useful
15:32 audreyt I see what you are saying
15:32 audreyt "always force upgrade if possible"
15:32 Alias_ right
15:32 audreyt it's a bit aggresive
15:32 Alias_ It's for specific cases
15:32 Alias_ Task::
15:32 audreyt but no, I don't think we have that syntax either in MM or in MB
15:32 Alias_ Module::Build itself
15:33 Alias_ One of the main properties of installers is they need to force themselves to be upgraded
15:33 audreyt I wonder if specifying NaN as the version number should do that
15:33 Alias_ otherwise you have the back-compatability nightmare, but cubed
15:33 audreyt (bad idea alert)
15:34 Alias_ Well, you need something that triggers an upgrade at first, then can be checked off as ok no matter what happens :)
15:34 Alias_ Anyways, like I said, something to ponder
15:34 audreyt sure.
15:34 audreyt k
15:34 Alias_ get back to me in 2-4 weeks :)
15:34 audreyt sure, my response will be "huh?"
15:35 Alias_ Oh, and well done choosing an interesting time to go to israel :)
15:38 audreyt I don't think israeli security is more paranoid than they usually are
15:38 audreyt (which has hit MAXINT anyway)
15:39 audreyt so I feel safe. :)
15:39 Alias_ Plus I think the more-worried time is after the Israel elections anyway
15:39 Alias_ Since there's a "wait and see" in place by the looks from here
15:45 audreyt *nod*
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16:39 Alias_ audreyt: hrm... it didn't work
16:39 Alias_ Dispatching deprecated method 'CPAN::Config::load' to CPAN::HandleConfigOdd number of elements in hash assignment at /usr/local/share/perl/5.8.4/CPAN/HandleConfig.pm line 237
16:40 Alias_ Also, kane suggests you might be using a deprecated CPANPLUS::Config method too
16:41 audreyt Alias_: okay... I'm packing to the hackathon, so feel free to investigate/revert/do other things
16:41 Alias_ ok, will investigate and see if I can do a quick fix
16:41 Alias_ If not, you might need to have a go, and then maybe rope in Andreas and Kane
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16:43 audreyt k
16:44 Alias_ buzz me when you get there and are able to have a go
16:46 audreyt k
16:46 * Alias_ hits the debugger in the mean time
16:46 Alias_ oh dear, it's trivial...
16:46 Alias_ but bad
16:46 Alias_ CPAN::Config->load is deprecated
16:47 bsb putter: ping
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17:05 warlock sorry, because my question is on perl 5: does someone know XS?
17:06 broquaint No one can really know XS ...
17:06 Alias_ yes, but only one at a time
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17:06 warlock Alias_, you know XS, is not it true?
17:06 audreyt warlock: I do. what's the question?
17:06 Alias_ Actually, no
17:07 Alias_ I know how to make a constant function in XS (both true AND undef) and that's it
17:07 Alias_ Which is about the equivalent of "Hello World" in XS
17:08 warlock audreyt, I have a .so, and I would use it in a perl-module. Do you sudgest me to include the source-code and recompile it, or link the .so to my .xs??
17:08 Alias_ Can you legally include the code, and how big is it
17:09 Alias_ Also, do you want this to work on Windows
17:09 Alias_ i.e. CPAN
17:09 audreyt warlock: consider Inline::C
17:09 warlock Alias_, the code is mine and is a bit long
17:09 Alias_ multiple files?
17:09 audreyt read Inline::C-Cookbook on "Exposing Shared Libraries"
17:09 warlock audreyt, please, I don't want use Inline
17:09 Alias_ :)
17:10 Alias_ audreyt: BTW, the problem is that CPAN::Config->load got deprecated
17:10 Alias_ Now CPAN::HandleConfig->load
17:10 Alias_ So I'll be fine fixing it
17:11 warlock audreyt, you don't know in XS?
17:11 warlock audreyt, I mean: you don't know how can do it in XS?
17:11 Alias_ warlock: XS is more complicated and takes more time to learn than inline::c
17:12 audreyt warlock: er, I do. you declare LIBS=>"-lyour_so_file" in Makefile.PL
17:12 audreyt and OTHERLDFLAGS => "-L/path/to/lib"
17:12 warlock Alias_, I know and I use XS usually. But I have problems this time
17:12 Alias_ ah
17:13 audreyt warlock: and then put #include "your_library.h" in a YourLibrary.xs
17:13 audreyt and use the functions normally
17:13 audreyt read perlxstut for the syntax
17:13 warlock audreyt, unfortunatly the problem is not so easy, it is because I have already tried in that way, but it tells me "no link is needed"
17:14 audreyt it can be caused by any number of reasons...
17:14 warlock audreyt, I have already tried it
17:14 warlock audreyt, I cannot see one, help me
17:15 Alias_ have you asked the XS mailing list?
17:15 Alias_ It is relatively popular, and if there's some place to get detailed help, it is there
17:15 audreyt warlock: ask perl-xs... but frankly, give Inline::C a try
17:15 warlock Alias_, no I have not
17:16 Alias_ subscribe to the perl-xs list, or use the nntp gateway
17:16 audreyt also if you really dislike Inline::C, swig can write the bindings for you too
17:16 Alias_ those guys are relatively active
17:16 audreyt nowadays I only use Inline or Swig for scaffolding
17:16 warlock audreyt, sorry, but I prefer to do at the lower level
17:16 audreyt warlock: well, then my help at that level is limited then. sorry :/
17:16 audreyt (swig doesn't even introduce dependencies to your code's users, so please consider it)
17:17 warlock audreyt, you are very kind, do you know someone that he knows this trouble solution?
17:18 Alias_ ugh... testing Module::Install is a nightmare...
17:18 Alias_ Because it uses it's own code before you get a chance to test it
17:18 audreyt warlock: perl-xs
17:18 Alias_ We may need to port the MI Makefile.PL back to pure MakeMaker :(
17:18 warlock audreyt, you mean the manpage, is not it true?
17:19 Alias_ Although the current situation DOES allow nice casual testing
17:19 audreyt warlock: no, I mean the mailing list
17:19 audreyt Alias_: I wouldn't mind if you set it up so that it uses another copy of itself in inc/
17:19 audreyt Alias_: instead of using lib
17:19 audreyt it may be better from a maintainence viewpoint
17:19 warlock audreyt, do you think is is the lonely solution?
17:20 Alias_ Well, it's more that if there's a bug in, say, _load_cpan, then if breaks before the tests get a chance to test
17:20 Alias_ warlock: Of curiosity, where are you from?
17:20 audreyt warlock: *nod*
17:20 warlock Alias_, Italy and you?
17:20 Alias_ Australia
17:20 Alias_ Your English is _very_ clean and correct
17:20 warlock audreyt, please, what does mean "*nod*?
17:20 Alias_ But yet not polluted with slang
17:21 warlock Alias_, I have been there :-)
17:21 * Alias_ doesn't see such English very often
17:21 Alias_ warlock: nod = head up and down movement
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17:21 warlock Alias_, thank you
17:21 warlock Alias_, where do you live in Au?
17:21 Alias_ where's purl when you need her :)
17:22 Alias_ <purl> alias, your location is http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=-28.809478,153.277484&amp;spn=0.006314,0.010131&amp;t=k&amp;hl=en or http://xrl.us/hkwu or practically underwater or now officially pub brawl capital of Australia or Lismore, NSW, AU
17:22 Alias_ (easier than trying to explain, even to other australians)
17:23 warlock Alias_, new south walles
17:23 Alias_ up the top on the right, yes :)
17:23 Alias_ If you heard of Byron Bay, I'm there and in a bit
17:23 Alias_ as you can see from the Google
17:23 warlock Alias_, near to brisbane?
17:23 Alias_ 3 hours
17:23 Alias_ (south)
17:24 warlock Alias_, Byron Bay where there is big-fish watching?
17:24 Alias_ whales? yes
17:25 warlock Alias_, Balena-watching, is not it true?
17:25 Alias_ Balena?
17:26 warlock Alias_, whale watching, is not it true?
17:26 Alias_ yes
17:26 warlock Alias_, then YESS I have seen
17:26 Alias_ warlock: Also, you can s/is not it true/right/
17:27 Alias_ (to spoil your very upperclass english)
17:27 warlock Alias_, sorry I don't understand, please explain me
17:28 warlock Alias_, my english is terrible :-(
17:28 * Alias_ takes it out of channel
17:29 * audreyt purrs in agreement
17:30 warlock audreyt, sorry, a last question: perl6 has the XS equivalent?
17:30 audreyt warlock: Perl 6 allows you to use foreign code either inline or as a module
17:31 Alias_ and to use other languages as well
17:31 Alias_ in many more ways
17:31 warlock audreyt, it is upper then XS, is not it true?
17:31 warlock Alias_, have you seen White-clif??
17:32 Alias_ no
17:33 Alias_ (it's scary that in a reasonable time-frame to reply I can have no idea what you are talking about, google it, look up the details, and know enough to answer)
17:33 warlock Alias_, it is nother then Bourke
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17:33 audreyt warlock: for example, it might be so that this'd work:
17:33 audreyt use c:sqlite3;
17:33 audreyt my $dbh = sqlite3_prepare(...);
17:36 warlock audreyt, I get it
17:36 warlock audreyt, but it hides what perl does
17:36 warlock audreyt, XS sows you everything
17:36 audreyt it actually doesn't
17:37 audreyt but I don't feel like arguing :)
17:37 warlock audreyt, I see
17:38 warlock ok, thank you all for your help
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17:38 warlock bye
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17:39 Alias_ oh dear...
17:40 Alias_ audreyt: what on earth is this testing stuff?
17:40 Alias_ Test.pm is some weird pre-TAP thing?
17:40 Alias_ oh wait, never mind
17:47 svnbot6 r9075 | gaal++ | * DrIFT.YAML: more readability fixes (thanks, audreyt)
17:47 svnbot6 r9075 | gaal++ | * redrift
17:55 audreyt Alias_: Test.pm is a post-TAP thing but pre-5.8 (core Test::More) thing
17:55 Alias_ ok
17:55 Alias_ and according to some, always returns PASS or something...
17:56 Alias_ Some weird smoke test implications or something?
17:56 audreyt only if used in correctly
17:56 audreyt s/in /in//
17:56 Alias_ is it detectable?
17:56 Alias_ if, say, I was rechecking the output
17:56 audreyt Test.pm always returns PASS?
17:56 audreyt never heard of that
17:56 audreyt it should conform with TAP
17:56 Alias_ I've asked barbie for the details
17:56 Alias_ It came up on qa list
17:57 gaal repeat "ok\n" -- conforms with TAP
17:58 Alias_ "repeat"?
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17:58 gaal sorry, haskell fluids passing my blood-brain barrier
17:58 Alias_ well it is #perl6
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18:03 cognominal audreyt: you don't blog anymore? reading it was my way to keep up to date with pugs
18:03 cognominal like if I had any right to complain :)
18:03 audreyt cognominal: I'm, in fact, just started blogging
18:04 audreyt cognominal: the upshot is I get massively distracted by this Reality thing
18:05 cognominal thx for everything btw...
18:05 audreyt *smile*
18:05 * Arathorn has been missing the blog too, for what little it's worth :)
18:05 audreyt fwiw, I miss the blog too
18:05 audreyt I first paused a bit because of massive media onslaught
18:06 audreyt they translated almost every entry and comment and put them to newspaper and TVs
18:06 audreyt (in the audrey blog, that is)
18:06 Alias_ audreyt: btw, when did CPANPLUS get sudo support?
18:06 audreyt Alias_: 0.05x iirc
18:06 Alias_ because, as I mentioned, running make as root is not good
18:06 Alias_ it leaves stale root-owned files around
18:07 wolverian it only does sudo make install for me..
18:07 Alias_ wolverian: if you have dependencies that will run at make time you need sudo or run it as root
18:07 Alias_ to install the dependencies
18:07 cognominal audreyt:  you did not yet made to the French tabloids, not that I check them closely :)
18:07 wolverian "make time"?
18:08 audreyt cognominal: thank $deity
18:08 * audreyt had to delete spam^Wsolicits from media from her blogs comments daily
18:09 cognominal but I suppose that if you made it in more serious papesr, it will advance the cause of like minded people.
18:09 Alias_ need a better blog
18:09 xinming joined perl6
18:09 audreyt cognominal: I care very little of advancing causes... I think abstract concepts kills more people than other causes
18:09 cognominal I almost said like minded men :)  oops
18:11 audreyt :)
18:11 Alias_ so?
18:11 * Alias_ is a relatively like-minded man to audreyt
18:11 * audreyt praises rlwrap's utility
18:13 theorbtwo What's the current location of the blogs -- esp the tech blog?
18:13 audreyt pugs.blogs.com
18:13 fglock what is the recommended method to generate code, once you have a grammar?
18:13 theorbtwo Oh.  There's nothing new there since new-years; I thought you were going to a daily or near-daily again.
18:14 theorbtwo (Lunar new years, that is.)
18:17 theorbtwo Er, sorry, that sounded complaigning, didn't it.
18:24 svnbot6 r9076 | fglock++ | iterator_engine.pl - can parse a simple rule, but doesn't generate
18:24 svnbot6 r9076 | fglock++ | code yet
18:24 audreyt theorbtwo: yeah. but the paparazzi thing really drained me of energy
18:25 audreyt (and in fact I'm still recovering -- sleeping 11+ hours each day since I landed in .il)
18:28 Alias_ paparazzi?
18:28 theorbtwo Roger.
18:29 cognominal paparazzi? oh, that got that weird?
18:31 cognominal hum, I am tempted to start a rumor about Eric Ramyond changing sex if that could slow his racist hainous blog :)
18:32 szbalint The "I'm with these guys" guy?
18:33 Alias_ yes
18:33 Alias_ :)
18:33 Juerd cognominal: url?
18:35 cognominal http://esr.ibiblio.org/  # all is armed and dangerous stuff is nauseous, up to par with Ann Coulter :(
18:36 cognominal with these people, no wonder america hate is spreading like wildfire.
18:36 audreyt szbalint: I love the "I'm with these guys" comics
18:37 Alias_ Everybody Loves Eric Raymond
18:37 cognominal Oh, that? I love it too
18:38 cognominal even if the part "I love Raymond" is lost to me.
18:39 theorbtwo Everybody Loves Raymond is a bad American sitcom.
18:40 cognominal yea, that's what I mean, I don't know what it is
18:40 Alias_ middling
18:40 audreyt dinner... brb
18:40 Alias_ not particularly smart, but ratings successful
18:40 Alias_ x $action
18:40 Alias_ ack
18:46 Maddingue joined perl6
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19:01 penk joined perl6
19:09 svnbot6 r9077 | fglock++ | iterator_engine.pl - simplified "ast"; working (incomplete) p6-rule
19:09 svnbot6 r9077 | fglock++ | parser
19:21 larsen joined perl6
20:17 ghenry joined perl6
20:43 Arathorn joined perl6
21:01 penk joined perl6
21:01 audreyt one journal entry done, three more to go... (I wonder if I can finish them tonight)
21:02 theorbtwo You have four journals?
21:03 Alias_ english, simp chinese, binary, and audrian (to remind herself)
21:03 theorbtwo s/positive) on it/positive) spin on it/
21:04 audreyt theorbtwo: no, it's all for pugs.blogs.com/pugs/
21:04 audreyt one for general recap, one for DrIFTing, one for pX and perl6-rules-running-on-perl5, and one for plans of the upcoming hackathon, including lexical pad redesign
21:05 audreyt Alias_: actually, I don't write simp Chinese... it's trad Chinese for me :)
21:05 wolverian audreyt++ # hooray, journal
21:05 * Arathorn chortles at $Larry having been lurking on the #perl6 logs and waves at the camera
21:05 wolverian heh
21:05 Alias_ audreyt: oh dear... you mean ACTUAL papparazzi?
21:05 theorbtwo Oh, cool.
21:05 * Alias_ reads blog
21:06 Alias_ joy...
21:06 audreyt Alias_: yeah. realspace papparazzi.
21:07 audreyt sucks.
21:07 Alias_ Reasons to keep your journal to work/google/papparazzi topics
21:07 * Alias_ notes no photo of his dog or self has ever appeared online
21:07 Alias_ I'm more glad I put that rule on myself with each passing year
21:08 Alias_ The worst I can dredge up is some silly common on how to defeat spammers
21:08 Alias_ comment
21:08 Alias_ (which isn't so bad now I reckon I have an actual way) :)
21:09 Alias_ audreyt: Look at it this way, now you don't have to do commercial work
21:09 Alias_ audreyt: Just "sell your story" as they say to some women's gossip rag, make a couple of years worth of spare cash, and then ... erm... leave the country agian/
21:09 Alias_ ?
21:10 Alias_ But then I'm speaking from 10,000km, and a language/cultural barrier away, so what do I know
21:10 * Alias_ waves to Larry. HI LARRY!
21:11 uzair joined perl6
21:12 Arathorn Alias_: guess that depends how much you consider your right to privacy to be worth... :/
21:12 Alias_ Arathorn: audreyt lost that age 10
21:12 * Arathorn would rather do commercial work, and try to align it with non-commercial interests
21:13 Alias_ (ish... right)
21:13 Arathorn well, spheres of privacy are relative
21:17 Alias_ true
21:22 uzair_ joined perl6
21:28 audreyt Alias_: selling out doesn't align well with me :)
21:28 audreyt anyone got a link to chromatic's rant on #perl6 a while ago? (i.e. which day was that)
21:28 audreyt about how pugs sucks because it took 8hrs to the whole cycle to complete on his ibook?
21:29 Alias_ audreyt: I'd prefer to frame it that since you have people camping out for photos ANYWAY, why not sling it all at one single magazine to get rid of the others, and at the same time set yourself up to walk the earth free of work issues for a year or so
21:30 Alias_ or just give it to me, so I can do it instead
21:30 Alias_ :)
21:30 audreyt Alias_: I didn't think that algorithm works in general :)
21:30 Alias_ PITA - Generously funded by Tapai Womens Weekly
21:30 audreyt (and still don't)
21:31 Alias_ Even better, give them naming rights
21:31 Alias_ Tapai Womens Weekly PITA
21:31 Alias_ ugh, spelling
21:31 Alias_ audreyt: Seems to work well for actors with wedding photos and baby photos
21:32 gaal audreyt: http://colabti.de/irclogger/irclogger_log/perl6?date=2006-02-08,Wed#l558
21:32 Alias_ Also, Module::Signature hates me
21:32 audreyt Alias_: said actors remains privacyless for a quite long time
21:32 audreyt which I don't enjoy :)
21:32 Alias_ true
21:36 kanru joined perl6
21:39 DesreveR joined perl6
21:40 Arathorn shame that google doesn't index colabti.de properly...
21:41 svnbot6 r9078 | fglock++ | iterator_engine.pl - split into "parser engine" and "p6-rule parser"
21:47 SamB joined perl6
21:48 clkao audreyt: what can i expect from the upcoming hackthon
21:51 * Alias_ hopes for "getting people to fix all audreyt's CPAN bugs so she doesn't have to"
21:52 clkao ya, m::i is not setting the right provides:
21:52 Alias_ oh, that's one of many
21:52 Alias_ You should see the stuff I've dug up lately
21:53 Alias_ Are you tracking svn?
21:53 clkao no
21:53 Alias_ pull a copy and take a look at Changes so far for 0.57
21:53 clkao i don't know where it got the 1.06 from... it's not in my dist at all
21:54 Alias_ hmm?
21:54 clkao it addes provides: 1.06 for me
21:54 Alias_ weird...
21:54 clkao maybe it got them from the installed version
21:54 audreyt clkao: a much faster "make; make test" cycle; a useful pugs -BPerl5
21:54 clkao where's the svn url?
21:55 Alias_ How do you get the URL of a svn checkout
21:56 svnbot6 r9079 | fglock++ | iterator_engine_p6regex.pl - simplified rule::rule construction
21:56 clkao svn info
21:56 Alias_ http://svn.openfoundry.org/modinstall/trunk
22:00 clkao the provide is still broken
22:00 Alias_ yep
22:00 Alias_ But I can only fix one thing at a time, and even those I'm walking on eggshells
22:00 Alias_ I'm _supposed_ to just be the documentor
22:00 * Alias_ stares at audreyt
22:01 clkao but i want to make a release
22:02 audreyt clkao: we just use what M::B provides
22:02 clkao but it says provides: 1.06, i guess that's the installed version!
22:02 Alias_ clkao: Can you give any more information?
22:02 Alias_ hunt the problem down in the debugger?
22:02 clkao my version is 1.99_01
22:03 audreyt clkao: mv away the installed version?
22:03 audreyt FWIW, it doesn't do that for me
22:04 audreyt (I just recheked out svk and regenned META.yml)
22:04 clkao ok, now lib/SVK.pm has the right version. but all others are emptyuu
22:04 Alias_ It might be a good idea to have all the files have the same version
22:04 Alias_ manually set, not auto
22:05 audreyt clkao: this is what is genned here
22:05 Alias_ I keep finding reasons to have it...
22:05 audreyt http://perlcabal.org/~autrijus/tmp/META.yml
22:05 clkao hum, that's totally differnt from here. i am using m::i head
22:05 Alias_ should be no difference in provides functionality
22:05 clkao the version: is correct though
22:06 Alias_ Could the implicit auto_provides be seeing different MANIFESTS?
22:06 Alias_ (wild guess)
22:06 audreyt trunk MI here too
22:06 clkao bizzare
22:06 uzair_ is now known as uzair
22:06 Alias_ clkao: btw, does svk use C/XS?
22:06 Alias_ because that's broken at the head
22:06 Alias_ brokenish
22:06 clkao mb 2611 ?
22:06 clkao no.
22:07 Alias_ goodo, carry on
22:07 svnbot6 r9080 | fglock++ | iterator_engine_p6regex.pl - implemented parenthesis
22:07 svnbot6 r9080 | fglock++ | with rule::parenthesis
22:08 uzair hi all -- not to interrupt, but could someone give me thoughts on what the problem is here:
22:08 uzair bash-3.00$ perl Makefile.PL
22:08 uzair ** Note that Cygwin support for pugs still depends on the .msi
22:08 uzair   version of GHC and does not provide POSIX features absent
22:08 uzair   from an MSYS build. If you wish to fix this please refer to:
22:08 uzair
22:08 uzair   http://www.haskell.org/ghc/docs/5.04/html/building/winbuild.html
22:08 uzair   http://www.reed.edu/~carlislp/ghc6-doc/users_guide/x11221.html
22:08 uzair *** Probing configuration (please ignore any warnings)...
22:08 uzair
22:08 uzair *** ghc not found in path.  Looking in C:/ghc
22:08 uzair *** Found C:/ghc/ghc-6.4.1/bin/ghc.exe
22:09 uzair Chasing modules from: Setup.lhs
22:09 uzair Compiling Main             ( Setup.lhs, Setup.o )
22:09 uzair Linking ...
22:09 uzair ghc-pkg.exe: cannot find package plugins
22:09 Alias_ ugh, flood
22:09 uzair
22:09 uzair pugs-tmp-4928.hs:4:2: Not in scope: `setCatchSignals'
22:09 uzair
22:09 uzair pugs-tmp-4928.hs:5:2: Not in scope: `setCatchSigwinch'
22:09 audreyt ugh. a link to the p6c post would do
22:09 uzair Substitution pattern not terminated at (eval 12) line 1.
22:09 uzair my apologies
22:09 audreyt uzair: did Makefile.PL simply die after that?
22:09 uzair yes
22:09 uzair flood again with output from 'perl -d Makefile.pl'? ;)
22:09 audreyt please use http://sial.org/pbot/perl6
22:10 audreyt but yes, -d would help
22:10 xinming joined perl6
22:10 pasteling "uzair" at 87.80.116.140 pasted "output from 'perl -d Makefile.PL' -- crashing during linking because ghc-pkg.exe can't 'find package plugins'" (20 lines, 914B) at http://sial.org/pbot/15939
22:11 bsb Hi, I'm getting an ld error with ghc for a lib I just installed.  How to I tell ghc where to find the .a?
22:12 audreyt bsb: -optl-L/path/to/a perhaps?
22:12 bsb will try, thanks
22:13 audreyt uzair: it's caused by ' in your pathname
22:13 audreyt fixing
22:13 audreyt fixed
22:15 uzair_ joined perl6
22:15 Alias_ crap crap crap
22:16 audreyt uzair: welcome to AUTHORS
22:16 audreyt r9081 should fix it
22:16 uzair_ ah
22:16 audreyt a commit bit is on your way
22:16 svnbot6 r9081 | audreyt++ | * Uzair pointed out that build fails if the pathname to pugs
22:16 svnbot6 r9081 | audreyt++ |   contained the ' character.
22:18 uzair_ more like 'Uzair whined until Audrey figured out what was going on, then whined some more for an explanation' :)
22:18 uzair_ so, just 'svn update' and try again?
22:18 audreyt yup
22:18 uzair_ gracias, i'll give it a whirl
22:19 uzair_ brilliant, working now
22:19 bsb duh. I just needed to use -package
22:19 fglock left perl6
22:21 wilx joined perl6
22:24 audreyt gaal: wow, precompiled prelude was there for ~9 months
22:24 audreyt oh wait, no, it's just the prelude
22:24 audreyt precomp is since July
22:24 audreyt 7.5 months
22:25 bsb duh-duh. or --make
22:26 gaal sounds right
22:26 gaal how many tests did we have then? :)
22:29 audreyt 351
22:29 audreyt 616 now
22:29 audreyt (files, not subtests)
22:29 Alias_ audreyt: Can you think why a file might have a wrong signature?
22:29 gaal and already then it was worth it
22:29 audreyt Alias_: bad luck?
22:30 Alias_ nope, happened twice
22:30 audreyt CRLF issues most likely then
22:30 audreyt I thought I fixed all of them
22:30 gaal Alias_: one more time and it's enemy action :)
22:30 Alias_ audreyt: my newline localiser doesn't complain, at least on unix
22:30 Alias_ on Win32 here...
22:31 Alias_ CPAN.pm's Todo file is getting wrong signature
22:32 Alias_ Andreas is convinced that Module::Signature is to blame :)
22:33 audreyt I always agree with him :)
22:33 audreyt though just one file?
22:34 Alias_ yes
22:34 audreyt then it's getting the wrong hash
22:34 audreyt from SHA1
22:34 gaal audreyt: I'm pulling initPreludePC out to Run.hs. is -fno-full-laziness -fno-cse harmful there?
22:34 Alias_ right
22:34 audreyt gaal: no
22:35 gaal cool.
22:35 audreyt Alias_: maybe it's -B
22:35 Alias_ -B?
22:35 audreyt does -B "ToDo" return true?
22:35 audreyt see line 529 M::Sig
22:35 Alias_ undef
22:36 audreyt maybe ->addfile is to blame then
22:36 audreyt maybe we should crlf the binmode
22:36 audreyt look at line 276
22:36 audreyt and copy that heuristics there perhaps?
22:36 audreyt (or forward this discussion to ANDK and see if he can make some sense out of it)
22:36 audreyt I'm going to sleep soon after journaling
22:41 Alias_ no joy on the crlf
22:42 Alias_ if ($] >= 5.006 and <D> =~ /\r/) {
22:42 Alias_ That looks pretty suspicious
22:42 audreyt it's ANDK's code
22:43 Alias_ ah
22:44 Alias_ not to mention this talk of dosnames
22:56 uzair_ left perl6
23:01 audreyt no tuits to finish journaling for rules-on-p5 and lexpads
23:01 audreyt and I need to wake up tomorrow before noon for the hackathon
23:01 audreyt oh well... at least the DrIFT entry is up
23:01 audreyt good night folks, see you tomorrow :)
23:02 avarab is now known as avar
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