Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2006-02-23

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 * theorbtwo is multipragmatic, but often prefers functional to OO.
00:00 * TimToady notices it's 2am here, and he is still recuperating from a cold, so maybe he ought to crawl off to bed...
00:00 theorbtwo (I really hate it when modules force me to subclass them; I'd much prefer to provide them subrefs much of the time.)
00:01 Juerd TimToady: Good night
00:01 theorbtwo G'night.
00:01 cognominal G'night
00:01 TimToady thx -oo-
00:01 Juerd theorbtwo: Forced subclassing becomes much less of a problem when we have first class classes, that can be non-global.
00:02 Juerd Though I think that forced does-ing will become more popular, which would make it nicely what you want
00:03 Juerd Because you can then have things per-object
00:03 Juerd (More easily, anyway)
00:03 theorbtwo I know.
00:03 Juerd Oh my, this is one of those moments when you start to realise how hard choosing an interface will be :(
00:03 theorbtwo I like this idea.  Objects I'm only ever going to have one of annoy me.
00:03 putter in that context, the question is "what to do with pos?".  you don't want a one-to-one relationship with string objects.  you'd like to be able to choose here I'm using this pos, and their I'm using some other.  simultaneously, without interference effects.  you could do that in the... "high sugar" regexp approach, because in $_.pos, the $_ neednt really be the string, but rather a parser state wrapper.  but that
00:03 Juerd It used to be: wrap or subclass...
00:03 putter gets less appealing as the layer of sugar thins.
00:04 Juerd Now, the options are almost infinite.
00:04 putter good night hackathon team &
00:05 theorbtwo It would seem that we want a regex operation that says "this assertation must be at this position".
00:05 theorbtwo (Having it as a builtin will let it be optimized the hell out of.)
00:05 Juerd I'm off too
00:05 Juerd Good night
00:06 putter Juerd: &
00:07 putter theorbtwo: so $str.pos+=1  is a unit error? ;)  one needs $str.pos += 1 graph;
00:08 theorbtwo Exactly, putter.  It's all about units.
00:08 theorbtwo The hard bit is that the relation between the units depends on the quantity being measured.
00:09 theorbtwo Well, $str.pos+=1 is a unit error unless you're OK with implicit units (which should probably be a lexical pragma).
00:10 theorbtwo (5`inches)+1 == 6`inches is probably OK in -e code.
00:10 putter does pos have multiple tracks, so it can be at pos 2 small unit, but instead of that being 1/2 big unit, in big units it looks like 0?  or 1?  or not? ;)
00:10 Juerd 5" should be possible, parse-wise :)
00:10 Juerd But I'm sleeping
00:10 Juerd afk
00:10 theorbtwo Yeah, I think it's time for me to do that too.
00:11 putter "inches"?  what are these "inches" of which you speak? ;)
00:12 putter but that still leaves the issue of associating a $str with multiple pos'es.
00:12 putter theorbtwo: good night :)
00:12 Juerd Oh my... .pos in inches.
00:12 putter picas!
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00:13 Juerd Which enables theorbtwo's "directly under" for any font...
00:13 Juerd Scary.
00:13 theorbtwo I don't think it's really an issue.  I'm wondering why anybody wants to only associate it with one.
00:13 Juerd Okay, I will turn my monitor off now.
00:13 putter rather #scary
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00:13 theorbtwo Perhaps I just need to backlog more.
00:13 theorbtwo ...but not right now.  Right now is time for bed.
00:14 theorbtwo ...even though it's not 2am here.
00:14 putter theorbtwo: the desire is to have a "zero"-context .pos.   ie, for  pugs -e '"a".pos'  to be meaningful, even if the object returned by .pos is opaque.
00:15 putter I'm not sure anyone is arguing there *should* only be one.  just havent found a nice way to say $str.pos and have it not be.
00:17 audreyt sigh... ETOOMANYSUBPROJECTSGOINGON
00:17 audreyt there's no way I can finish journaling them
00:17 putter audreyt: a simplification: time to sleep. :)
00:17 audreyt at least not tonight
00:18 audreyt but I did post something just 5 minutes ago :)
00:18 audreyt have fun... see you tomorrow :) &
00:18 putter btw, I hope you guys don't get _too_ sucked into #irc.  it's so much less efficient than one-on-one in person.  which is of course the real value of where you're at.
00:18 putter bye &
00:19 audreyt putter: don't worry, we are all in the same cabin
00:19 audreyt and there's always 4+ voice channels that goes on
00:20 putter ok
00:20 putter sleep well &
00:20 audreyt oh, btw, & means "runs in the background", so it's usually (at least in #perl where I learned it) only used by the person who is about to disappear :)
00:20 audreyt but otoh, it can also mean "succubus"
00:20 audreyt or any other demon NPC
00:21 audreyt which can appear anywhere in the dungeon.
00:21 putter hmm... thought it was "wave"... ah well...
00:21 audreyt (clearly I'm out of my mind and needs to sleep. good night. :))
00:21 audreyt &
00:22 obra sleep well
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00:38 putter re "because switching packages in the middle of a file is disallowed", ouch.
00:40 putter err, so " $x=1; package Foo; $y=1; " is no longer legal?  because the $x is in Main, and the $y in Foo...
00:45 putter "use v6;  package Foo;" has use() run in Main.  only allowed to _explicitly_ switch packages _once_?  And only from Main?  and can't get back?  (without using package Foo {...})   maybe I'm missing something.  this would also mean source files can't be join("package main;")'ed any more.
00:47 putter ah well.  motion, movement, activity, yay :)
00:48 Kattana yay~~
00:52 putter sigh.  xml is nicely nested and all, and great for hierarchical structures, but line oriented work can be soo much simpler and more convenient, not having to worry about closing all those "}"^H^H^H "</foo>"s.
00:55 ingy audreyt, putter et al: what is the best books to buy w/ my $200 amazon gift certificate
00:56 ingy I have tapl, atapl and hop so far
00:56 putter :)
00:56 ingy I assume they are good
00:56 ingy is there a killer Haskell book?
00:57 * putter isn't a good person to ask about buying books...
00:57 putter did you check pugs's READTHEM?
00:58 * anatoly likes YAHT so far.
00:58 ingy gaal, nothingmuch: ^^
00:58 ingy putter: good idea
00:59 putter you can even use   svn blame  to see who suggested it....:)
01:04 putter maybe search LtU (though I'm not turning up as much as I anticipated)
01:09 putter The Reasoned Schemer, maybe?
01:09 ingy I think my cart overfloweth
01:11 putter Practical Common Lisp?
01:11 putter ;)
01:15 putter if there is a killer Haskell book, it doesnt seem to be on http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Books
01:20 avar hey
01:21 avar since you guys seem to know p5 better than #perl people;)
01:21 avar what is my Fooshizzle $x = 5; supposed to do in Perl 5?
01:21 avar I've read the code and it just checks if Fooshizzle exists as a package in the current scope (i.e. has been parsed)
01:21 avar but that doesn't seem very useful
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01:43 Khisanth avar: the perldocs already tell you what they are for
01:43 avar which one?
01:44 Khisanth perldoc -f my and the other ones it refers to
01:45 avar bah, didn't look there, thanks;)
01:47 anatoly perldoc fields is especially useful, avar
01:48 anatoly my Fooshizzle $x will tell perl that $x is to be bound to the Fooshizzle package, and you won't be able to set keys in the $x hash that aren't declared as valid fields in that package.
01:49 avar as declared in use fields..
01:49 avar nice
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07:39 GeJ 'morning everyone.
07:40 gaal yo
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07:48 svnbot6 r9125 | lwall++ | * S29draft has now been declared the "official" S29 (with more tweaks/guesses)
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08:19 dduncan seen ingy
08:19 jabbot dduncan: ingy was seen 7 hours 9 minutes 44 seconds ago
08:19 dduncan ingy, do you have any plans to fix your only.pm module so that it passes its own test suite?
08:20 dduncan I'm trying to use it as a dependency in my own modules (as per PBP recommendation) and the CPAN testers aren't testing my modules, possibly because yours aren't passing their tests
08:21 dduncan but regardless of CPAN testers issues, failing tests look bad
08:21 dduncan fyi ...
08:21 dduncan the module still works correctly for me, despite the test issues
08:22 dduncan but I'm only using it to assert that the correct version of a module is loaded, not to manage multiple versions
08:22 dduncan thank you in advance for your help in this longstanding problem ... which affects other people too
08:23 dduncan see also http://rt.cpan.org/Public/D​ist/Display.html?Name=only , all items of which are marked 'new'
08:23 dduncan still
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08:29 dduncan oh yeah ...
08:29 dduncan if I'm around, I can test any prelaunch tarballs on my machine before you upload to cpan
08:30 dduncan note that one comment on rt says problems may be related to the presence of version.pm on a system, and I do have that on mine
08:31 dduncan but that's a standard module now and compatability with it is essential
08:31 dduncan thank you
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08:51 Alias_ audreyt: ping?
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09:31 rafl Juerd: Uhm.. why?
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12:01 rafl audreyt: ping
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12:08 Juerd rafl: Context?
12:14 broquaint Is this valid perl6: sub atest( Code $f = { say "I'm a default" } ) { $f() } # As it currently doesn't work in pugs.
12:16 Juerd Regardless of validity, I want to point out that I think the lack of space between sub name and signature is bad.
12:17 Juerd It looks like valid stuff, by the way. Why do you use "Code $f", and not &f directly?
12:17 broquaint Bad or ugly?
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12:17 broquaint Habit, just cribbing from existing code.
12:17 Juerd Both bad and ugly.
12:17 broquaint I'm guessing it should work as it used to run ok.
12:17 broquaint How is it bad?
12:17 Juerd Bad, because it makes it look like a *call*, which it is not.
12:18 Juerd foo(), foo[], foo{}, foo<>, in a Perl 6 expression is always short for foo.(), foo.[], foo.{}, foo.<>
12:19 Juerd While sub atest.(...) would be invalid.
12:19 broquaint I'm just used to it from C and pretty much every other language with similiar prototypes.
12:19 Juerd Exactly how similar are these prototypes?
12:19 broquaint PHP
12:20 Juerd In PHP, the parens are required.
12:20 broquaint Ruby.
12:20 broquaint Maybe Python.
12:21 Juerd I don't know Ruby and Python well enough.
12:21 broquaint I'm pretty sure parens are required for most language's prototypes.
12:21 Juerd Note that the prototypes being similar or different isn't an argument for or against whitespace, by the way, I'm just curious.
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12:22 broquaint Anyhow, it's broke. Which is odd.
12:22 webmind +n
12:22 broquaint What's the best way to run a single test unit?
12:22 broquaint For pugs that is.
12:23 azuroth perl -Llib/... t/blah/blah.t or something?
12:23 rafl Juerd: Re: sleep inyour office.
12:23 broquaint Hrm, default parameters don't seem to work. Weird.
12:23 Juerd broquaint: I don't know if it's the BEST way, but pugs -Iblib6/lib t/foo.t
12:23 Juerd rafl: If I ask people, I force them to think about it.
12:24 Juerd rafl: Which is something many people here aren't good at. They'll predict trouble where none exists.
12:24 Juerd I've slept here with 6 people for 3 nights, 2 times. It's no problem.
12:25 Juerd But there may be people who are surprised to see sleeping gear.
12:25 azuroth three nights, two times?
12:25 Juerd azuroth: Yes. With one year in between.
12:25 azuroth ahh. I think.
12:37 broquaint Shouldn't the version of pugs on feather be 6.2.11, Juerd?
12:38 broquaint Or have the automated builds stopped?
12:49 Juerd broquaint: Automated builds have stopped, and since I've been trying to get it working again, there hasn't been any working Pugs build at the times I tried :)
12:50 Juerd broquaint: And because of the *long* compilation cycle, there are days in between tries.
12:50 Juerd broquaint: And someone installed debian packages on feather, which makes people expect things (like that libraries are installed), which I'll have to handle.
12:51 Juerd broquaint: But parrot doesn't compile into a Debian package out of the box, so that route is blocked early.
12:51 Juerd broquaint: I lack tuits to work around these things.
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12:51 Juerd broquaint: So for the time being, feather's parrot and pugs lag behind as much as Debian Sid does.
12:51 broquaint Ok, fair enough :)
12:55 nothingmuch_ TimToady: http://perlmonks.org/?node=335547
12:57 nothingmuch_ is now known as nothingmuch
12:57 * azuroth needs a better monitor. 60hz is no good at all
13:00 nothingmuch no it isn't =(
13:01 * nothingmuch has a headache with under 80Hz
13:01 nothingmuch but nowadays I only use LCDs so i forgot all about that
13:01 nothingmuch well, an LCD
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13:11 azuroth yeah. hopefully I can get myself an LCD very soon now
13:15 nothingmuch ping pong moose
13:16 azuroth alligator
13:18 nothingmuch joined perl6
13:24 nothingmuch ping foo?
13:25 nothingmuch moose?
13:25 azuroth nothingmuch: ?
13:25 nothingmuch just testing if the wifi died again
13:25 azuroth ahh. I wasn't sure if you were looking for a specific moose
13:26 nothingmuch well, yes, always
13:26 nothingmuch but regardless it's also *the* metasyntactical noun/verb/adjective
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13:36 svnbot6 r9126 | bsb++ |  Link unconditionally with zlib and for yml.gz decompression.
13:36 svnbot6 r9126 | bsb++ |  FastPackedString defined USE_ZLIB tests removed.
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14:03 fglock anyone knows why: perl -e ' @m = "aaadaac" =~ /^(:?(a)|(ad))*(c)$/g; print "@m\n"; ' prints: 'a a ad c' instead of 'a a ad a a c' ?
14:04 Juerd Because every set of caputuring parens has ONE result.
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14:04 Juerd Assuming you meant ?: instead of :?,
14:05 Juerd Oh, you didn't.
14:05 Juerd Assuming not,
14:05 Juerd /^(:?(a)|(ad))*(c)$/
14:05 Juerd /^(:?(a)|(ad))*(c)$/
14:05 Juerd  ^  ^   ^     ^
14:06 Juerd  $1 $2  $3    $4
14:06 Juerd So, you cannot get 5 elements back.
14:06 Juerd The * does not change that in Perl 5.
14:06 fglock Juers: thanks!
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14:19 fglock s/Juers/Juerd/
14:20 rafl Juerd: Just bought my tickets to Bruxelles.
14:20 rafl Juerd: trains are expensive. :-(
14:21 rafl Juerd: I'll arrive 15.32 with ICE 14 in Bruxelles Agglo. I hope you can pick me up there?
14:23 rafl Juerd: Hm.. one paper says Bruxelles Agglo, the other one says Bruxxeles-Midi.
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14:40 Juerd rafl: Find out which one it is, please. With only 30 minutes in between, we don't have time for detours :)
14:43 rafl Juerd: Do you know how the stations there are called?
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14:43 Juerd rafl: Nope
14:45 svnbot6 r9127 | fglock++ | iterator_engine.pl - better algorithm for '+?'
14:45 svnbot6 r9128 | bsb++ |  Further notes on recursive macro possibilities
14:45 svnbot6 r9128 | bsb++ |  Revert 594 and 595 MissingH additions now that zlib is used
14:48 Juerd rafl: Can't find anything about any Agglo.
14:48 rafl Juerd: Can you find Midi?
14:49 Juerd Yes
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15:09 svnbot6 r9129 | fglock++ | * iterator_engine - started 'p6rule_grammar.p6' - a 'rule' grammar written using
15:09 svnbot6 r9129 | fglock++ |   the small subset of Perl6 compiler that is already implemented.
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15:12 rafl Juerd: Should be Midi then.
15:13 gaal joined perl6
15:24 Juerd rafl: Okay
15:25 rafl Juerd: ICE 14, 3.32pm.
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15:48 svnbot6 r9130 | lumi++ | Move the DrIFT-generated instances to separate files
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16:21 rafl Juerd: Your phone number, please.
16:21 rafl audreyt: How about switching our Perl 6 talks on GPW?
16:21 rafl audreyt: I think Perl 6, the language, makes more sense before Perl 6, the implementation.
16:22 theorbtwo Makes a lot of sense to me.
16:22 Juerd rafl: +31 6 19 18 49 89 until I switch to +31 6 47 91 27 15 sometime tomorrow.
16:22 * theorbtwo wonders if it's too late to go.
16:22 Juerd theorbtwo: Why would it be too late?
16:23 rafl Juerd: Thanks. Mine is +49 176 22521114
16:23 Juerd Oh, heh, I hadn't registered yet for GPW.
16:23 Juerd Let's do so
16:23 theorbtwo Because it's next week, and I'd have to figure out how to get there, get Jess off work...
16:24 Juerd theorbtwo: Right, it's *next* week. So you still have time to figure things out and arrange thinghs.
16:24 Juerd s/hs/s/
16:24 rafl Juerd: I haven't payed. D'UH..
16:24 Juerd Doesn't payment happen on site?
16:26 rafl Juerd: No.
16:26 Juerd rafl: Will we participate in the wednesday dinner?
16:26 rafl Juerd: I'd like to.
16:26 Juerd ok
16:26 rafl Juerd: Shall we participate in the preparations on feb 28th?
16:27 Juerd rafl: Nice idea!
16:28 theorbtwo Oh.  Anyway, certianly can't go.  Jess already has off...
16:28 theorbtwo ...because my parents are visiting the country.
16:28 * Juerd is considering bringing his beamer for movie watching in the hostels...
16:28 rafl Juerd: I feel some sarcasm.
16:28 rafl Juerd++
16:28 Juerd rafl: No sarcasm intended...
16:28 Juerd rafl: If you bring movies, I'll bring a beamer :)
16:28 rafl Juerd: Aye. I'll mail wsorga then.
16:28 rafl Juerd: When will we be there on the 28th?
16:28 rafl Juerd: I'll do so.
16:29 Juerd Let's hope for white walls, and roommates who like movies :)
16:29 Juerd If there are roommates.
16:29 rafl Juerd: I hope you don't mind if they're partially german.
16:29 Juerd Which is always a surprise.
16:29 Juerd Depends how partial.
16:29 Juerd I have no planning for the 28th
16:29 rafl Some english, some german movies.
16:29 Juerd Except driving from .be to .de :)
16:29 rafl Juerd: Lets plan to be there in the early afternoon?
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16:30 rafl Juerd: 1 or 2 pm maybe?
16:30 Juerd rafl: My German isn't great, as you know. But it's better than no movie :)
16:30 Juerd rafl: Okay.
16:30 Juerd rafl: At what time do we have to check in at the hostel?
16:30 rafl Juerd: Before 8pm
16:30 Juerd Oh, that's nice and late :)
16:33 * rafl wants audreyt to be back. So I could put everything into a single mail to wsorga.. :-(
16:33 svnbot6 r9131 | gaal++ |  r9130@sike:  roo | 2006-02-23 13:44:13 +0200
16:33 svnbot6 r9131 | gaal++ |  * Pugs.Prim: Pugs::Internals::emit_yaml prim to dump some AST
16:33 svnbot6 r9131 | gaal++ |    programmatically, analogously to pugs -CParse-YAML
16:33 Juerd What/who is wsorga?
16:33 rafl And I'm afraid. I'll need to get up at 5.30 tomorrow to get my train/ I fear I can't do that.
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16:34 rafl Juerd: The WorkShop Organisation team wsorga@perl-workshop.de
16:34 Juerd Ah
16:34 Juerd 5:30? Holy crap :)
16:34 svnbot6 r9132 | gaal++ |  r9131@sike:  roo | 2006-02-23 13:44:47 +0200
16:34 svnbot6 r9132 | gaal++ |  * Precompile Test.pm before running smoke tests
16:34 svnbot6 r9133 | gaal++ |  r9132@sike:  audreyt | 2006-02-23 13:54:00 +0200
16:34 svnbot6 r9133 | gaal++ |  * s/Pugs-YAML/Parse-YAML/
16:34 rafl Juerd: As an alternative to watching movies I could offer preparing my Perl 6 Talk for GPW. :-)
16:35 Juerd rafl: That too could use a beamer :)
16:35 Juerd rafl: Don't forget we have a full free day in between FOSDEM and GPW to fill :)
16:35 rafl Juerd: My eyes aren't that bad!
16:35 svnbot6 r9134 | gaal++ |  r9133@sike:  roo | 2006-02-23 16:44:55 +0200
16:35 svnbot6 r9134 | gaal++ |  broken renaming of %*INC<MyMod><exports> to %MyMod::EXPORTS
16:35 svnbot6 r9135 | gaal++ |  r9134@sike:  audreyt | 2006-02-23 17:32:06 +0200
16:35 svnbot6 r9135 | gaal++ |  * Parser: export now works again.
16:35 Juerd rafl: Awh, no private test presentation? :)
16:36 rafl Juerd: Well. Preparations for GPW and hanging around with the others.. :-)
16:36 svnbot6 r9136 | gaal++ |  r9135@sike:  roo | 2006-02-23 17:44:26 +0200
16:36 svnbot6 r9136 | gaal++ |  * Precompile Test.pm before make smoke and make test
16:36 svnbot6 r9137 | gaal++ |  r9136@sike:  audreyt | 2006-02-23 17:45:45 +0200
16:36 svnbot6 r9137 | gaal++ |  * retab
16:36 svnbot6 r9138 | gaal++ |  r9137@sike:  audreyt | 2006-02-23 18:31:22 +0200
16:36 svnbot6 r9138 | gaal++ |  * getopt spec draft
16:37 rafl Juerd: OK.. a test presentation would be cool. A talk to present would be cool as well.
16:37 Juerd rafl: Well, we'll still be in Belgium that day.
16:37 rafl Juerd: Right.. there's the 27th. Forgot that..
16:37 Juerd rafl: We could film the entire talk beforehand, and play it at GPW... You could be your own audience! :)
16:38 rafl Impressive..
16:38 Juerd Imagine the unique opportunity to ask yourself questions.
16:38 Juerd *in public*
16:39 webmind Juerd, you never ask yourself questions in public? :)
16:39 rafl That would look like cheating. Obviously the lecturer already knew the question before the talk was given..
16:39 webmind unless you've learned something in the meanwhile? :)
16:40 Juerd rafl: Hm, indeed. You'd better swap with the virtual rafl anyway, because the virtual rafl won't be able to answer other questions... :)
16:40 Juerd So the virtual rafl can ask the physical rafl questions
16:40 rafl Juerd: We can record a "403 Permanently moved" pointing to the real rafl.
16:40 Juerd It's all entirely doable, if there are two beamers :P
16:40 rafl :-)
16:43 rafl Juerd: As you're a Debian user.. could you please help me? Attach my screen session on feather.
16:44 Juerd Done
16:52 Juerd rafl: Try apt again
16:53 rafl WTF.. why is backward search gone?
16:54 Juerd ?
16:54 Juerd (no pun intended; I meant "huh?")
16:54 rafl Oh.. I somehow killed screen.
16:54 svnbot6 r9139 | lumi++ | Proofread (and illuminated by nothingmuch)
16:54 rafl Could you reattach it?
16:55 Juerd Yes.
16:55 rafl How to search backwards in copy mode?
16:56 Juerd ?
16:56 rafl is foreward, but ^O ? is the help screen
16:56 Juerd Not ^O ?, just ?.
16:56 Juerd shift+/
16:59 * rafl will be back in a few minutes.
17:04 svnbot6 r9140 | lumi++ | Fixed include paths when generating DrIFT
17:04 szbalint joined perl6
17:08 cdpruden joined perl6
17:08 svnbot6 r9141 | lumi++ | Pregenerated instances for the DrIFT files.
17:39 orafu joined perl6
17:52 Khisanth joined perl6
17:54 Juerd I hate <<""
18:00 Amnesiac heredocs?
18:03 theorbtwo The syntax of the beginning, or the whole feature?
18:07 Juerd Heredocs with empty line endings.
18:07 Juerd I hate heredocs only in Perl <6 :)
18:07 Juerd And I don't entirely like them in Perl 6 either. I like to indent my string one level more than the end marker.
18:08 Juerd But I can live with this compromise
18:08 rafl Juerd: OK.. what now? I have no clue what's going wrong and I'd like to have parrot 0.4.2 in Debian. :-(
18:08 Juerd And there's a dutch company called ComPromise. How stupid can one be? :)
18:08 rafl audreyt: ping, again.
18:08 rafl Heh :-)
18:08 Juerd rafl: I'll look around a bit
18:13 rafl Juerd: Thanks
18:14 Juerd What command caused this again? Start it in screen please
18:15 rafl Juerd: Done
18:17 rafl Juerd: Stop making my screen bell! :-P
18:18 Juerd rafl: ^O^G
18:20 rafl Juerd: It still alerts the other screen the screen on feather is running in. Oh well..
18:24 avar joined perl6
18:25 Juerd Hehe
18:25 Juerd That's funny.
18:25 sili hoho
18:25 Juerd The problem stems from a duplicate entry in the tarball.
18:25 sili it's not a singleton?
18:25 Juerd Apparently not!
18:25 sili heh.
18:26 Juerd Whoever said that filenames are unique, was wrong!
18:57 ghenry joined perl6
19:04 avar joined perl6
19:22 beppu joined perl6
19:33 stennie joined perl6
19:36 svnbot6 r9142 | fglock++ | iterator_engine - implemented captures - iterator_engine_p6grammar.pl is broken
19:38 startkeylogger is now known as Supaplex
20:16 uzair_ joined perl6
20:20 robkinyon joined perl6
20:27 rafl Juerd: Bah.. just found out that I need to maintain the Debian booth on Sat from 4 to 5 pm :-(
20:28 theorbtwo joined perl6
20:36 avar debian has a booth?
20:37 avar whatwhatwhat
20:38 rafl avar: On Fosdem, yes.
20:40 rafl Which means that I'll miss the XEN/Speex/Asterisk talk :-(
20:41 avar just leave
20:42 avar and leave a post-it saying "debian takes care of itself"
20:42 avar it'll be awsome
20:42 rafl :-D
20:45 szbalint lol
21:03 lisppaste3 joined perl6
21:14 TimToady joined perl6
21:17 lypanov wb larry
21:17 bsb joined perl6
21:19 Limbic_Region Out of curiosity - has anyone tackled any of the Project Euler problems using Parrot/Perl6/Pugs ?
21:20 rafl Limbic_Region: Maybe in the shootout project parrot participates in?
21:21 Limbic_Region rafl - you mean the same people? since the two projects are completely unrelated AFAIK
21:21 Limbic_Region and is building on Win32 currently b0rk or is it just me?
21:22 rafl Limbic_Region: No. I don't know the Euler Project but thought they might have similar tasks.. ENOCLUE
21:23 Limbic_Region oh - Project Euler (currently offline while it moves to a new server) is a series of mathematical problems posed that pretty much need a program to solve
21:23 Limbic_Region quite fun
21:23 Limbic_Region http://mathschallenge.net/index.​php?section=project&amp;ref=view
21:23 LeTo Limbic_Region: if you have too much time - yes ;)
21:24 rafl Limbic_Region: Ah. Sounds way too mathematical for me. :-)
21:24 Limbic_Region LeTo - context for your response?  You referring to something about Project Euler or Pugs not working on Win32 currently?
21:25 LeTo Euler and implemting it in e.g. Parrot
21:25 * rafl likes pythonchallenge
21:25 Limbic_Region oh, well I was going to try some of the ones I have already solved in p5 (since the site is down) but I can't get Pugs to build ATM
21:26 LeTo rafl: yep pythonchallenge prog implemented as a p5 one-liner ;)
21:27 rafl LeTo: Huh?
21:27 LeTo or shell script one-liner
21:27 larsen joined perl6
21:27 rafl LeTo: Well. I wonder how you do complex image manipulation in sh..
21:27 rafl LeTo: The first challenges are easy and doable with oneliners, but they get pretty complex.
21:28 LeTo rafl: there have been very simple progs too
21:28 svnbot6 r9143 | audreyt++ | * Unbreak the build: PIL1.hs shouldn't contain duplicate instances.
21:32 * Limbic_Region svn ups to see if audreyt fixed the prob
21:33 * Limbic_Region wavers to audreyt and to all the hackathon hackers
21:33 szbalint Limbic_Region: oh you're doing Pr. Euler too? :)
21:33 Limbic_Region yes szbalint - name's limbic (if that wasn't obvious)
21:33 Limbic_Region done about circa 45 of the problems
21:33 * obra is pleased to see that people are replying to synopsis commits
21:34 szbalint I'm szbalint there too :)
21:34 dduncan joined perl6
21:36 calanya joined perl6
21:36 szbalint I think some tasks could be done with current Pugs, but not sure if within the one minute rule
21:36 rafl Juerd: ping
21:37 Limbic_Region szbalint - the one minute rule isn't that your code can't take longer than 1 minute to complete - it is that given the "right" way of approaching the problem, it shouldn't take more than 1 minute to run
21:37 dduncan well, I'm happy to report that, after being laid up with a cold for a week, I've gotten a new burst of inspiration last night, so I should be able to really push forward with Rosetta today
21:38 Limbic_Region audreyt - if you are paying attention - build is still broke on Win32 - I will nopaste the error
21:38 dduncan no details need to be said at this time though
21:38 audreyt Limbic_Region: please do
21:39 r0nny_ joined perl6
21:40 audreyt Juerd: I'd like mediawiki installed on feather. is that possible?
21:40 szbalint Limbic_Region: isn't that basically the same thing in relation to programming languages?
21:40 pasteling "Limbic_Region" at 129.33.119.12 pasted "Build on Win32 is failing after nmake realclean; svn up; perl Makefile.PL; nmake" (105 lines, 7.1K) at http://sial.org/pbot/15993
21:40 audreyt Juerd: (a "go ahead and apt-get yourself" will do too)
21:41 Limbic_Region szbalint - no, if you come up with an answer after a day of running and it is right - you still get the points
21:41 Limbic_Region audreyt - I can't stick around but I nopasted the blow-up
21:41 nothingmuch joined perl6
21:41 * Limbic_Region heads home to his daughter
21:41 Limbic_Region TTFN all
21:41 szbalint heh
21:43 Juerd audreyt: Go ahead and apt-get yourself :)
21:44 Juerd audreyt: However, please make any server wide wiki not any-project-specific
21:44 audreyt TimToady: I asked Robrt to put filename on subjects of p6l just now (on irc.perl.org #p5p)
21:44 Juerd rafl: pong
21:44 audreyt Juerd: can't be... it'd be specific to perl6
21:44 audreyt Juerd: so maybe /perl/ ?
21:44 audreyt /perl6/, even
21:44 rafl Juerd: The shedule again, please?
21:44 clkao audreyt: i guess i am glad that i got you on irc a few years ago :)
21:45 Juerd rafl: "apt-get install booth-personell"
21:45 audreyt clkao: right, chain reaction and all that
21:45 clkao :D
21:45 clkao rock on
21:45 Juerd audreyt: Sure, but then don't apt-get :)
21:45 rafl Juerd: Could you bring a small server to GPW? :-)
21:45 Juerd rafl: Hm, what for?
21:45 rafl audreyt: How about switching our talks on GPW?
21:45 Juerd rafl: And schedule, hold on.
21:45 rafl Juerd: As a local pugs hacking. Otherwise feathe rwill do.
21:45 audreyt rafl: I write your slides and you write mine?
21:46 audreyt rafl: not sure how that works out
21:46 rafl audreyt: p6, the language, makes more sense before p6, the implementation, imho ;-P
21:46 Juerd rafl: I won't be able to bring any box that's capable of compiling pugs within reasonable time
21:46 audreyt rafl: oh, just switching timeslot
21:46 Juerd rafl: feather's quite useless for that too...
21:46 audreyt rafl: sure, I'll trade
21:47 rafl Juerd: Why?
21:47 Juerd rafl: Have you any idea how long compiling pugs takes?
21:47 nothingmuch http://nfttu.blogspot.com/2006/02/cow-bombs.html
21:47 Juerd rafl: How many hours exactly is this workshop? :)
21:47 rafl Juerd: It's not for pugs compiling but for pugs playing. Only for experiments with p6, not for hacking on pugs itself.
21:47 Juerd It doesn't get any better if several people compile the same thing simultaneously
21:47 Juerd rafl: Oh, I see.
21:48 rafl audreyt: Aye. I'll try to get the timetable changed.
21:48 Juerd rafl: Best I can bring on such short notice is pentium 3 class...
21:48 Juerd rafl: With not enough memory for multiple people :)
21:48 Juerd rafl: So let's use feather
21:48 rafl Juerd: OK.
21:48 TimToady audreyt: arigatou
21:49 Juerd rafl: schedule at http://tnx.nl/4532BVGP
21:50 Juerd rafl: Could you do me a favour?
21:50 Juerd favor
21:50 wolverian favour
21:50 LeTo rafl: who is Marc Lehmann?
21:50 rafl Juerd: Store it locally?
21:50 Juerd any(favor, favour) :)
21:50 Juerd rafl: Pay the GPW for me when you pay for yourself too; I can give you back the cash tomorrow.
21:51 Juerd If I have to do an international bank transfer now, it won't arrive in time.
21:51 Juerd (store what locally?)
21:51 rafl Juerd: The schedule. I ask the 42th time for it just now.
21:51 Juerd Ah, heh, no I don't mind
21:52 Juerd From tomorrow forward, we're not as connected to IRC so it won't be a problem any longer :)
21:52 rafl No IRC? WTF..?
21:53 Juerd rafl: Not *as* connected
21:53 rafl Juerd: Do you remember 22C3?
21:53 macli joined perl6
21:53 Juerd Yes, it wasn't that long ago :)
21:53 rafl Juerd: Sitting next to each other and talking on IRC..
21:53 Juerd Hm, good point.
21:54 Juerd But, I can simply show you my local file then :)
21:54 Juerd I fucking still don't have my 8cell :(
21:54 Juerd Ordered it weeks ago.
21:56 rafl Juerd: Same thing for the ultra bay, right?
21:56 Juerd Haven't ordered any ultrabay
21:56 Juerd But yes, it would take weeks.
21:58 rafl Huh.. thought you did.
21:58 Juerd Eh, I thought you didn't want it to take weeks...
21:59 Juerd I haven't even inquired for pricing info; you wouldn't blindly order anything, would you? :)
21:59 Juerd Hm, I should go home and get some sleep.
22:00 Juerd First, I should clean the interior of my car :)
22:00 rafl Juerd: Well. So get some pricing info! :-)
22:00 Juerd Can do so only during office hours
22:00 Juerd And will be very busy packing and stuff, tomorrow.
22:00 Juerd Remind me Monday
22:00 rafl Juerd: No need to do so. I also did not clean up my room which we will visit on the 3rd.
22:01 * rafl needs to pack today. Bah..
22:01 Juerd rafl: Don't you like to put your feet somewhere?
22:01 Juerd Today only is another hour.
22:01 rafl Juerd: Today is before I go to sleep.
22:01 Juerd And in little over 5 hours your day begins again.
22:01 Juerd You should get sleeping...
22:02 rafl Juerd: Behave.. otherwise I'll take some duct tape with me!
22:02 Juerd I *expect* you to bring along duct tape.
22:02 Juerd It's essential gear... :)
22:02 rafl Hm.. no transition moment.
22:03 Juerd Transition?
22:04 Juerd rafl: Have you planned your way back yet, by the way?
22:04 rafl Bah. I should practice to use my babelfish.
22:04 rafl Juerd: No. I'm not sure if I can afford to go to Amsterdam.PM yet. I'll know at the begining of next month.
22:05 Juerd Oh :|
22:05 rafl I'm sorry.
22:06 rafl I can't afford another train travel. Depending on how much money is on my account I can try to tramp back.
22:06 rafl Fosdem is free? cool.
22:06 Juerd But otherwise I have to drive 730 km all alone
22:06 Juerd Yes, fosdem is free :)
22:07 Juerd So you have money left over for another train journey :)
22:07 rafl If I would have expected fosdem to cost 135 EUR. Then I would have enough money left. Unfortunately I didn't.
22:08 Juerd It's *that* expensive?
22:09 rafl No, it's the dainty food in the train bistro that makes it that expensive.
22:09 Juerd Hm?
22:09 rafl Yes, it is that expensive. It's an ICE.
22:09 Juerd Speaking of food; do you have enough money to buy food? :)
22:10 Juerd As only breakfast at Bruegel is included; at Aleppo it costs extra. And then there's lunch and dinner too.
22:10 rafl I'll get free food at CLT and probably at GPW. That only makes 5 days without food. Quite doable.
22:10 Juerd Ah, okay
22:11 rafl How about you?
22:12 Juerd I have a 1k budget for the entire trip, so I'll manage.
22:12 Juerd I don't want to spend it all, but I can if needed.
22:12 rafl That's much.
22:13 rafl Ah, OK. So I can blag a bit..
22:13 Juerd Yes. A client ordered many domain names and then figured out that the brand name they'd chosen sounds like the word for "totally fucked up" in some language
22:13 Juerd So then they ordered as many domains again.
22:14 rafl Heh A client ordered many domain names and then figured out that the brand name they'd chosen sounds like the word for "totally
22:14 rafl               fucked up" in some language
22:14 rafl 23:13 < Juerd> So then they ordered as many domains again.
22:14 rafl ups.
22:14 rafl :-)
22:14 Juerd This, plus a nice paid freelance job I've done in January, makes for a nice balance.
22:14 Juerd (nice and paid, not broken english for nicely paid)
22:16 integral yet another use for the mighty comma: "nice, paid job"
22:17 Juerd comma++
22:18 Juerd I'm off.
22:19 rafl Bye.
22:19 rafl See you tomorrow.
22:19 Juerd rafl: Good luck tomorrow, and see you at Bruss^WBruxelles Midi around 15:30
22:19 rafl Yep!
22:25 theorbtwo joined perl6
22:26 SamB joined perl6
22:26 audreyt bsb: I'm committing a build-unbreak change
22:26 audreyt so that it could build without zlib
22:27 fglock audreyt: mini-grammar parser works!
22:28 svnbot6 r9144 | fglock++ | * iterator_engine_p6grammar.pl - compiles a grammar written in mini-Perl6 an
22:28 svnbot6 r9144 | fglock++ |   produces _runnable_ perl5 code
22:30 fglock the code emitted by iterator_engine_p6grammar.pl can be tested with:  use Data::Dumper; print Dumper xxx('xxx');
22:30 audreyt fglock: oooooooh
22:31 fglock :)
22:33 svnbot6 r9145 | audreyt++ | * Prim.Eval: make the yml.gz loading code fallback in a more
22:33 svnbot6 r9145 | audreyt++ |  structured fashion -- also don't try to read if the file
22:33 svnbot6 r9145 | audreyt++ |  doesn't exist in the first place.
22:44 SLBKBS joined perl6
22:54 svnbot6 r9146 | audreyt++ | * zlib probing
22:55 Blicero_ left perl6
23:03 svnbot6 r9147 | audreyt++ | * S29draft: bring forward the return type as the prefix
23:03 svnbot6 r9147 | audreyt++ |   of function definitions, and introduce explicit scoping.
23:03 svnbot6 r9148 | audreyt++ | * rename S29draft to S29 as it is now binding.
23:03 audreyt bsb: so nothing writes the .gz at this moment?
23:04 audreyt (it had to be manually gzipped?)
23:05 bsb manually, yes
23:05 audreyt k
23:12 svnbot6 r9149 | fglock++ | iterator_engine - added a 'p6rule_lib.pl' file for the system rules, such
23:12 svnbot6 r9149 | fglock++ | as <ws>
23:13 fglock is there a namespace assigned for the <ws> rule and others?
23:21 audreyt probably in the Grammar grammar
23:22 fglock ok - like: rule Grammar::ws {...}
23:25 audreyt yeah
23:25 audreyt because all grammars inherits from Grammar
23:26 audreyt that is a safe bet
23:28 fglock re inheritance - p5 rule calls will need to be written like methods for this to work
23:33 rabbine joined perl6
23:36 audreyt fglock: or we just cheat and compose as mixins in the p5 implementation
23:36 audreyt (or use Class::MOP)
23:36 audreyt but anything that's fast to implement is a win
23:38 fglock what is the current main plan for p6 on p5?
23:38 svnbot6 r9150 | audreyt++ | * Perl6::Doc now installs!
23:38 audreyt fglock: we export all the haskell internal structures into p6 objects
23:38 audreyt fglock: then dump all of them into an object space image
23:38 audreyt (and call this PIL2)
23:39 audreyt fglock: p5 would need an object space that runs this
23:39 audreyt which ties into underlying prims
23:39 audreyt including rules etc
23:41 * fglock goes read Class::MOP pod
23:47 svnbot6 r9151 | audreyt++ | * Our main Makefile.PL now installs Perl6::Doc and the
23:47 svnbot6 r9151 | audreyt++ |   associated viewer, p6doc.
23:50 svnbot6 r9152 | audreyt++ | * Invoking "p6doc" after installation now shows the
23:50 svnbot6 r9152 | audreyt++ |   Perl6::Doc manpage; "p6doc tutorial" will show the
23:50 svnbot6 r9152 | audreyt++ |   Perl6::Tutorial manpage, and so on.
23:50 svnbot6 r9152 | audreyt++ |   The command line API needs work.
23:55 clkao what, the p6doc problem is not ported to p6 yet!
23:57 audreyt commits welcome
23:59 svnbot6 r9153 | audreyt++ | * Perl6::API and Perl6::Spec.

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