Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2006-03-27

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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02:53 svnbot6 r9744 | lwall++ | Various items for further discussion at the hackathon.
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05:13 ayrnieu assertion "s1->encoding && s1->charset && !PObj_on_free_list_TEST(s1)" failed: f
05:14 ayrnieu ile "src/string.c", line 1341
05:14 ayrnieu Abort trap (core dumped)
05:14 ayrnieu wee
05:14 ayrnieu (this is pugs)
05:15 arcady but it sounds like parrot...
05:15 arcady what with all the PObjs and core dumps
05:15 ayrnieu Perhaps: I have an embedded parrot.
05:15 ayrnieu I have a pugs.core , however.
05:17 arcady that's definitely a parrot error
05:18 arcady maybe embedding is broken
05:21 arcady not that I am a parrot expert, but that error message looks like a result of null pointers and/or access to already-freed objects
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06:13 * ayrnieu shudders.  regexen are so brain-eatingly slow right now.
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08:57 KingDiamond so what's the current state of the exception handling implementation? any example of a try... catch?
09:06 KingDiamond I'm trying to determine the type of an object actually... is there a way I can do that currently?
09:08 ayrnieu any way at all?  Look at its .perl
09:09 ayrnieu in perl6, you'll have standard ways to see if an object has a field or a method, however.
09:10 ayrnieu and look in t/builtins/control_flow/try.t for exception handling
09:11 KingDiamond ah, thanks!
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09:14 gaal KingDiamond: $obj.ref
09:15 gaal though yeah, .does will be correct in more cases
09:17 KingDiamond gaal: w00t! this is what I needed. thanks.
09:25 KingDiamond gaal: so is there a way to list available object methods?
09:25 ayrnieu something in .meta , I expect.
09:27 KingDiamond ayrnieu: .meta doesn't work
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09:28 ayrnieu yes, I know.
09:35 gaal my @meths; push @meths, $_ for grep { $class.can($_) } 'a' .. 'zzzzzzzzzzzzz'
09:37 KingDiamond gaal: heh :-)
09:37 * spo0nman cant seem to get pugs to work.
09:37 gaal the zzz is an allusion to the speed in which this doesn't work
09:38 spo0nman pugs does not love me.
09:38 gaal spo0nman: what doesn't work?
09:38 spo0nman gaal: ah! i cant seem to compile it.
09:38 KingDiamond spo0nman: you said there were problems with your kdelibs or something conflicting with parrot, right?
09:38 * spo0nman warns that he is on Freebsd 4.10
09:39 spo0nman KingDiamond: that was linux.
09:39 spo0nman Im sure if i tried it with yet another OS it'll still not work.
09:40 spo0nman KingDiamond: Parrot compiles and runs in the /tmp/parrot dir but when i make install it cannot find parrotlibs.
09:40 * spo0nman pulls his hair.
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09:41 gaal brb, sorry - spo0nman please paste error messages
09:42 spo0nman gaal: with FBSD, I got as fas as getting  parrot ghc darcs and hs-plugins working ... pugs fails.
09:46 spo0nman gaal: http://paste.lisp.org/display/18335
09:49 nothingmuch spo0nman: you should consider working on feather.... it's been a long time
09:49 nothingmuch it's much more fun to work on pugs than to try and build it unsuccessfully =(
09:49 spo0nman nothingmuch: :)
09:49 nothingmuch just FYI: gmp is the gnu big num math library
09:50 nothingmuch that I'm guessing haskell is using for the Integer data type
09:50 spo0nman nothingmuch: haskell works ... so i dont know if im missing it.
09:50 nothingmuch i'm not sure what ghcz is though
09:50 spo0nman nothingmuch: feather? /me does a web search.
09:50 nothingmuch yeah, it's odd
09:50 nothingmuch spo0nman: feather.perl6.nl
09:50 nothingmuch it's Juerd's donation
09:50 nothingmuch you can use it to do perl 6 related things
09:51 nothingmuch (development, IRC, web hosting, email)
09:51 nothingmuch you need to mail Juerd and ask for an account
09:52 spo0nman sweet.
09:52 spo0nman just tell me where to send the cookies. :)
09:52 nothingmuch well
09:52 nothingmuch you can send me cookies
09:52 nothingmuch i'll never say no =)
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09:53 nothingmuch spo0nman: see, fglock is using feather to connect =)
09:53 spo0nman :)
09:55 fglock nothingmuch: hi!
09:55 nothingmuch hola fglock
10:05 fglock pmichaud: re your comments in parrotsketch: you can enter the precedence table by using prototypes: 'sub infix:<-> is assoc:<left> is equiv:{infix:<+>}' - I'm not sure about the syntax, as there is no 'prototype' in S06
10:06 fglock nothingmuch: I'm looking for what to do next - maybe work a bit in a TGE/p5
10:07 nothingmuch fglock: i'm too out of touch to advise right now
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10:10 fglock later &
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11:38 gaal camel: http://giant-moose.livejournal.com/119622.html
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12:00 KingDiamond in a connect() object, I want to pass a body and header to the say() method; how to? :-/
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12:01 gaal $o = connect(..); $o.say("asdf")
12:01 gaal or say $o: "asdf"
12:01 gaal see examples/network
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13:30 svnbot6 r9745 | fglock++ | Pugs-Compiler-Rule/TODO update
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14:24 audreyt fglock: there?
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14:29 fglock audreyt: hi
14:29 svnbot6 r9746 | fglock++ | Pugs-Compiler-Rule/RuleInline.pl - a *fast* rule runtime
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14:41 audreyt fglock: is PCR-Dev.tgz still relevant?
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14:42 fglock audreyt: no - it had some new ideas, but it is obsolete now
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14:42 audreyt k, maybe rm it then
14:43 fglock audreyt: it can compile the grammar using itself, but this is not important now
14:43 audreyt the new PCR looks nice!
14:43 svnbot6 r9747 | audreyt++ | * re::override - build fix on Win32 and threaded perls;
14:43 svnbot6 r9747 | audreyt++ |   factor out NOTES from override.xs, and various cleanups.
14:44 audreyt is RuleInline for PCR 0.02, or would you like to push out a release using existing pX codebase first?
14:44 audreyt I'd like to do a re::override::PCR
14:44 fglock audreyt: thanks
14:44 fglock audreyt: inline is just an idea I had 10min ago :)
14:44 svnbot6 r9748 | fglock++ | rm PCR-dev.tar.gz
14:44 audreyt also, have you seen pmichaud's language/perl6/ optable (and very minimal grammar) for p6?
14:45 fglock audreyt: I've read about it - do you have a link?
14:45 * gaal meows
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14:46 audreyt fglock: yes, http://svn.perl.org/parrot/trunk/languages/perl6/lib/grammar.g
14:46 audreyt I'm a little bit underwhelmed by its current scope... but seems like a clean start at least
14:47 audreyt also, http://svn.perl.org/parrot/trunk/languages/perl6/lib/parse.pir is the initial optable population
14:47 audreyt gaal: hey!
14:47 fglock oh, it doesn't use a statement table yet
14:48 gaal hey hey ms jetlag :)
14:48 fglock audreyt: how about using sub prototypes to declare fixness/precedence/etc
14:48 audreyt gaal: *sigh*
14:48 audreyt fglock: that's the right way to do it...
14:50 fglock do you think opp.pl can be of any use?
14:50 fglock I'm looking for what to do next :)
14:51 nothingmuch møøøøse
14:52 fglock audreyt: S06 doesn't mention sub prototypes
14:53 audreyt huh?
14:53 wolverian I used Moose yesterday, it was nice.. :)
14:53 audreyt grep for "tighter" and "is assoc"
14:54 fglock audreyt: I mean, defining a sub without a block
14:54 fglock but maybe I overlooked it
14:54 audreyt "proto" is it
14:55 audreyt proto infix:<+> ($a, $b) { ... }
14:56 fglock audreyt: ok. S06 has 'sub foo {...}' - proto isn't there (http://dev.perl.org/perl6/doc/design/syn/S06.html)
14:57 audreyt proto is S12.
14:57 audreyt it probably needs to be added to S06 as well
15:06 audreyt something like, in S06.pod after "B<Multimethods>":
15:06 audreyt +B<Prototypes> (keyword: C<proto>) specifies the commonalities (such
15:06 audreyt +as parameter names, fixity and associativity) shared by all multis
15:06 audreyt +of that name.
15:06 audreyt TimToady: sanity-p?
15:07 gaal audreyt: then also +If a C<proto> is not specified explicitly, one is created based on the first C<multi> declaration
15:07 gaal +A C<proto> declaration must come before any matching multis, if at all.
15:07 gaal right?
15:08 gaal (IIRC a discussion a month ago)
15:08 audreyt yup
15:08 audreyt but that's in S12
15:09 audreyt which is very weird
15:09 audreyt I think the whole para
15:09 audreyt =head1 Multiple dispatch
15:09 audreyt should be moved back to S06
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15:10 fglock S06 has a 'Stub declarations' section - it could comment on 'proto' x '{...}'
15:10 audreyt though "proto" only makes sense for multis
15:10 audreyt (which is what you are working on now I presume)
15:10 audreyt for normal subs, you can do forward declaration using the
15:10 audreyt sub x { ... }
15:10 audreyt ...
15:10 audreyt sub x { real body }
15:10 audreyt form
15:11 audreyt I think it's terribly inconsistent though
15:11 audreyt I'd like to see all the proto forms moved to C<proto>
15:11 audreyt but that's what is specced now
15:11 audreyt and sorta makes some sense
15:15 fglock what's the place for a op precedence parser in Pugs::* ? I was thinking something like Pugs::Grammar::Category
15:15 audreyt that's an excellent name.
15:15 fglock cool
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15:19 * nothingmuch goes bug hunting
15:19 nothingmuch gotta clear out all those stupid things in the RT queues
15:19 nothingmuch btw: http://halogen.note.amherst.edu/~jdtang/scheme_in_48/tutorial/overview.html
15:19 nothingmuch seems nice
15:19 fglock lunch &
15:20 nothingmuch audreyt: i'm going to put HTML::FromANSI in a darcs repo on my website... cool?
15:20 nothingmuch and hopefully close the two bugs
15:20 audreyt nothingmuch: er sure
15:20 fglock left perl6
15:20 * audreyt needs to crash for another 3hrs now
15:21 audreyt I'll try to resume journaling after I wakeup :/
15:21 audreyt ...hopefully before the akihabara walking tour
15:22 * audreyt waves... &
15:22 nothingmuch does 'temp $x' retain the value of the outer $x unless explicitly assigned?
15:22 nothingmuch or do you have to say 'temp $x = $OUTER::x' ?
15:23 audreyt unspecced (!)
15:23 nothingmuch i'll post to p6l
15:27 nothingmuch one
15:27 nothingmuch done
15:32 Limbic_Region um - slight typo in the temp x thread - the comment after the first block should say definately 5 not 10
15:34 cognominal is there a difference between PCR and PCRE?
15:35 chris2 one means polymerasis chain reaction, and the other perl-compatible regular expressions :)
15:38 PerlJam apparently I'm not the only one who thinks that when they see PCR
15:41 PerlJam PCR == perl6 rules implementation.   PCRE == perl5-ish regular expression implementation
15:41 PerlJam (btw)
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15:51 audreyt so maybe re::override::Pugs instead of ::PCR -- otherwise too confusing
15:52 Limbic_Region audreyt is supposed to be sleeping
15:52 audreyt I am sleeping...
15:54 GabrielVieira joined perl6
15:54 GabrielVieira hi
15:56 PerlJam Limbic_Region: audreyt takes Ambein to help sleep and so is able to do all sorts of things while asleep.
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16:03 svnbot6 r9749 | audreyt++ | * v6.pm: Alias++ requested the "use v6-pugs;" should be in a
16:03 svnbot6 r9749 | audreyt++ |   line by itself (modulo whitespace/comments), to make PPI's life
16:03 svnbot6 r9749 | audreyt++ |   not totally miserable.
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16:06 svnbot6 r9750 | audreyt++ | * Pugs::Compile::Rule - avoid warnings in tests.
16:06 svnbot6 r9751 | audreyt++ | * re::override::PCRE - we really want 5.006+.
16:06 stevan_ dammit, I keep missing her
16:06 * stevan_ ponders sleeping every 3 hours to try and get in sync :P
16:07 ingy hi audreyt
16:07 stevan_ wolverian: feel free to m??se on over to #moose (on perl.org) if you have any questions
16:07 stevan_ hey ingy
16:07 stevan_ you in .jp yet?
16:07 ingy audreyt: not yet
16:07 PerlJam stevan_: There was a chemical engineering student I used to know who would do that (sleep every few hours)
16:07 ingy grr
16:08 ingy stevan_: not yet
16:08 ingy audreyt: http://svn.kwiki.org/ingy/Sporx/
16:08 * stevan_ will pretend if ingy wants him too
16:08 svnbot6 r9752 | audreyt++ | * Main.hs - 6.28.0 will use the Japanese version of the title poem.
16:08 ingy stevan_: http://svn.kwiki.org/ingy/Sporx/README
16:08 stevan_ ingy: nice :)
16:09 ingy I'm about to do the insane part of the hackj
16:09 stevan_ which is?
16:09 ingy each slide will be mutated into a Javascript function which returns takahashi markup
16:10 ingy so that normal slides act normally
16:10 stevan_ ingy++ # bringings his own personal brand of insanity to the world of Javascript
16:11 ingy but slides with embedded Javperlscript do evil things
16:11 stevan_ I look forward to an Inline.js
16:11 ingy gah
16:11 stevan_ :)
16:11 ingy stevan_: did you see Inline::Module
16:11 ingy released last night?
16:11 stevan_ no, what is that?
16:11 stevan_ looking ....
16:11 ingy http://search.cpan.org/src/INGY/Inline-Module-0.10/t/lib/Foo.pm
16:11 stevan_ :)
16:12 ingy Module::Compile++
16:12 ingy audreyt++
16:12 stevan_ this is like mixins, but crazier
16:12 ingy mixons
16:12 stevan_ yes, ++ all around indeed
16:12 ingy I feel like I've got my evil mojo back
16:13 stevan_ PerlJam: IIRC, DaVinci only slept something like 20 min every 4 hours
16:13 ingy that's a man with a BIG todo list
16:13 stevan_ ingy: no doubt, Module::Compile is the gateway drug :)
16:14 ingy :)
16:14 ingy stevan_: I need to do a rewrite with dconway
16:14 svnbot6 r9753 | fglock++ | Pugs-Compiler-Rule/RuleInline.pl - added benchmark
16:14 svnbot6 r9754 | audreyt++ | * Revert "use" and "require" to use the internal forms
16:14 svnbot6 r9754 | audreyt++ |   for now, as it doesn't (yet) work for anything other
16:14 svnbot6 r9754 | audreyt++ |   than Test.pm.  Will revisit when YAML+Closure works.
16:14 * stevan_ quakes with fear
16:14 fglock plain PCR: 5263 iterations/second; fast PCR: 149000/s
16:14 ingy audreyt's on fire
16:15 stevan_ she is always more productive when she sleeps
16:15 stevan_ s/sleeps/is sleeping/
16:15 * ingy gets some coke from the fridge
16:16 * stevan_ always keeps it in the little gold ankh around his neck, Superfly style :P
16:19 audreyt ingy: give me proper VimMode highliting (via Kwiki::/Spork::) in Sporx please :)
16:19 * audreyt is tired of {{#c|}}
16:20 ingy audreyt: I can do better
16:20 audreyt I want to use kwid :)
16:20 ingy wait til you see it
16:20 audreyt okay. will you be in the Akihabaratour?
16:20 audreyt when'd you arrive?
16:20 ingy 1720 tomoorrow
16:21 ingy I think I am joining the dinner
16:21 miyagawa yeah.
16:21 miyagawa hacking dinner!
16:21 ingy we can do last minute hacking at dinner and beyond
16:21 audreyt k
16:22 ingy I'll convert everyone to Sporx JIT
16:22 audreyt yay!
16:22 audreyt ingy++ ingy++
16:22 ingy :)
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16:27 fglock audreyt: 'fastPCR' (nonbacktracking) is 30x faster then plain CPR - it could be used as a first-try, and then fallback to backtracking
16:27 fglock s/CPR/PCR/
16:27 audreyt fglock: nice!
16:27 audreyt (both PArrows and Parsec uses commit-by-default, try-if-you-must strategy)
16:28 audreyt it's so useful that I sometimes wonder if rules can take a :eager flag ;)
16:28 fglock audreyt: is there a swich to disable backtracking in rules (other than ':')
16:28 fglock :)
16:29 audreyt otoh, if we are using parser combinator style with {return...}
16:29 audreyt then
16:29 audreyt token : {return ...}
16:29 audreyt makes great documentation
16:29 audreyt the colon feels like an operator there
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16:29 audreyt so maybe adding it isn't that big a requirement
16:30 fglock audreyt: but then you would need token : token : token : {return} if you have a longer statement
16:30 fglock or maybe not - it can be optimized by the emitter
16:31 fglock (or by TGE)
16:31 * stevan_ is starting to think that Perl 5i (of whatever it was called) will actually be out by *this* christmas
16:31 audreyt I'm not sure how TGE figures into this :)
16:31 audreyt it can be optimized by the emitter for sure.
16:32 audreyt stevan_: yes.
16:32 audreyt definitely :)
16:32 fglock audreyt: I'm trying to find out things that TGE could be used for :)
16:32 fglock p5i?
16:32 audreyt (note that I submitted a YAPC::NA talk "Deploying Perl 6" counting on the existence of something like that at there)
16:32 audreyt fglock: imvvho, nothing :)
16:32 stevan_ audreyt: Moose 0.03 will be out later this week with a nice Moose::Cookbook in it
16:33 stevan_ (and a bunch of other features/improvements too)
16:33 audreyt fglock: TGE does two directions of tree-based propagation, namely propagating AST nodes from bottom to up, and propagate context etc from up to down
16:34 audreyt the first one is easily effected with the :{return...} combinator style
16:34 ingy Cøøkbøøk
16:34 audreyt the other direction is what multimethods is for
16:34 audreyt stevan_: ooooh
16:34 fglock joined perl6
16:34 audreyt 18:36 < audreyt> the other direction is what multimethods is for
16:36 fglock ok
16:36 audreyt TGE makes sense for parrot, as writing either direction in PIR would suck
16:36 audreyt but in a self-hosting context, p6 itself is more powerful/expressive than AGs
16:37 audreyt (ags = attribute grammars that TGE implements)
16:37 PerlJam it had better be!
16:37 audreyt indeed :)
16:39 * Limbic_Region wonders how good audreyt is at predicting the future in her sleep
16:39 Limbic_Region any idea when 6.28.x of Pugs will be?
16:39 fglock I'm trying to find a reference on how faster the algorithm used by PGE op-precedence is, vs. plain p6 grammar
16:40 audreyt Limbic_Region: I have no idea... too many things in flux. would have more details after meetup with ingy/damian/etc this week
16:41 PerlJam fglock: isn't like comparing table-lookup to stack-unwinding (or similar)?
16:41 audreyt I need to get S06+S12 totally digested into _implementable_ forms... preferably with P5 backups and Perl6::API specs
16:41 audreyt s/backup/runtime support/
16:43 * Limbic_Region thanks audreyt for her noop cycles and wanders back off to lurking
16:45 fglock nice: http://www.parsifalsoft.com/gloss.html
16:47 svnbot6 r9755 | audreyt++ | * Fix pugs -BJS compilation by temporarily emulating VCode serialization
16:47 svnbot6 r9755 | audreyt++ |   for Perl5.  Eventually this needs to be "fixed" by making PIL2JS
16:47 svnbot6 r9755 | audreyt++ |   accepting the YAML tree instead of raw Perl5 tree.
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16:51 audreyt o/~ But in that sleep of 'Net / what dreams may come / when we have shuffled off / this mortal coil / must give us Code o/~
16:52 audreyt bbl :) &
16:52 eric256 joined perl6
16:56 ingy any js experts in the house?
16:57 justatheory joined perl6
16:57 fglock stevan_: Perl 5i is Moose?
16:58 eric256 Moose!!! ;)
16:58 ingy elk
16:59 ingy 31k
16:59 * eric256 is considering playing with Moose to build objects for a Plugin system... the before, after, around are perfect for it...i think ;)
16:59 * eric256 wondered what 31,000 had to do with anything lol
17:00 audreyt fglock: I think stevan means "use v6-pugs" without writing v6 :)
17:00 audreyt fglock: that is, use all the runtime support, but with perl5 syntax
17:02 stevan_ fglock: IIRC Perl 5i was the ingy project that spawned Spiffy (ingy please correct me if I am misguided)
17:02 fglock audreyt: does it make sense to port perl5/Perl6-(Container|Value) to plain p5?
17:02 stevan_ fglock: so with Moose, PCR, Module::Compile, etc, we will have something pretty close
17:03 audreyt fglock: it does... but my brain is in alpha-wave now, so there's not enough Ghz to think about this
17:03 audreyt maybe tomorrow
17:06 ingy stevan_: I think you are misguided
17:07 ingy perl5i was my idea to extend the perl5-i(nternals)
17:07 ingy adding opcodes for Perl6ish stuff
17:08 ingy and perl5i was supposed to provide a clean OO API (C level) for those internals.
17:10 * eric256 curses himself for developing on windows where it can be soo hard to install modules.
17:10 Limbic_Region eric256 - using AS?
17:11 eric256 yea
17:11 eric256 me and my constant battle. i used to have cpan setup with VC++ i should figure that out agian.
17:12 Limbic_Region I was just checking if they use a freeware compiler or if they use the $$$ one
17:13 Limbic_Region you would think that if they used a freebie one that there would be easy to follow instructions for building your own - I should ask crazyinsomniac
17:15 ingy anyone hang out on #javascript?
17:15 * Ara4n has asked q's there (very) intermittently
17:15 Ara4n or was that #js?
17:16 Ara4n no, it was #javascript
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17:21 Juerd ingy: Isn't that quite easily checked by joining the channel and having a look at its names list? :)
17:22 ingy Juerd: it's a big list
17:22 Juerd I see
17:22 ingy much bigger than here :p
17:23 Juerd Only 30 bigger.
17:28 Limbic_Region eric256 - what AS build are you using?  I have just read that as of build 815 - MinGW works seamlessly with AS
17:30 eric256 i have build 815
17:31 avar joined perl6
17:31 fglock I'm using PxPerl with MinGW, and AS too - I frequently get path problems :)
17:40 eric256 L~R i'm not registered so i can't msg you.
17:40 ruoso joined perl6
17:41 * ruoso is still alive after very very much beer in the weekend...
17:41 Limbic_Region ahh - nevermind anyway - I figured it out
17:42 integral Limbic_Region: /nickserv set unfiltered on # will allow people to msg you
17:42 siosiosios joined perl6
17:43 fglock ruoso :)
17:46 ruoso fglock, so... I saw 06-subrule.t is working...
17:48 Limbic_Region hanks integral
17:51 fglock ruoso: PCR 0.02 may go to cpan today
17:56 elmex joined perl6
17:59 ruoso fglock, I need to see what's missing on lrep after that...
17:59 ruoso fglock, it looks like I'll be able to make it work again
17:59 ruoso fglock, PCR has the features the old iterator_engine had...
18:01 eric256 is now known as eric256_
18:03 * ruoso working too much :(
18:04 fglock ruoso: I'm also experimenting with a new version - see RuleInline.pl - it will be more than 10x faster
18:04 eric256_ is now known as eric256
18:06 ruoso fglock, does it brake the "abi" again?
18:07 ruoso . o O (it's weird to think in Perl 5 as binary )
18:07 ruoso fglock, or it's a in-place replacement?
18:11 nothingmuch i'm going to release a new Test::TAP::HTMLMatrix
18:12 nothingmuch last chance to fix the display: file:///Users/nothingmuch/Perl/Test-TAP-HTMLMatrix/example_html/summary.html
18:12 nothingmuch err
18:12 nothingmuch http://nothingmuch.woobling.org/tth_example/summary.html
18:13 nothingmuch if anyone feels they can make that prettier
18:13 eric256 that looks purty ;)
18:14 nothingmuch it's 'orrible
18:14 fglock ruoso: abi?
18:14 nothingmuch i couldn't write CSS if my life depended on it
18:14 eric256 yea i'm not too picky though.  anything is prettier than my http://feather.perl6.nl/~eric256/t_index/ ;)
18:15 eric256 so if you find someone to help you with that...send them my way too.
18:15 eric256 we need offical P6 stylists and Librarians.
18:15 ruoso fglock, the perl 5 code that runs with PCR will run with RuleInline.pl? or will need to be re-written?
18:17 fglock ruoso: RuleInline will be transparent - it will first try a fast match, and if it fails, it will try the old PCR
18:17 fglock ruoso: the fast match can't backtrack
18:17 nothingmuch okay
18:18 nothingmuch too late =)
18:18 ruoso fglock, alright... so it's just an enhancement to PCR, not a substitute
18:18 Ara4n is now known as Arathorn
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18:46 KingDiamond joined perl6
18:49 ingy yay, my refactoring of the takahashi.js was successful
18:49 nothingmuch Test::TAP::Model and Test::TAP::HTMLMatrix uploaded to CPAN
18:50 nothingmuch now with consolidated view support
18:50 nothingmuch this means two test runs can be diffed
18:50 larsen joined perl6
18:51 * PerlJam waits for "... this means we'll have a perl6 compiler by tomorrow"   ;-)
18:51 PerlJam s/\ba\b/*the*/
18:52 * ruoso wonders if it would be a good idea to use PCR to build a Perl 5 parser and then write a P5->P6 compiler
18:53 nothingmuch ruoso: not a good idea
18:53 nothingmuch waste of effort
18:53 nothingmuch larry can already give you an opptree with an embedded parse tree
18:54 nothingmuch which is really as good as it gets for perl 5
18:54 nothingmuch remember that perl 5 has no spec but the code
18:54 ruoso nothingmuch, that's a point
18:54 ruoso :)
18:54 nothingmuch IMHO your time is too valuable to be wasted on that, but if that's what you consider fun, by all means ;-)
18:55 ruoso but a P5optree -> P6syntree converter may be useful...
18:55 Juerd ingy: So does Perl 6, though it doesn't call them setters and getters... :)
18:55 nnunley joined perl6
18:58 ingy Juerd: accessors & mutators?
18:59 Juerd ingy: has $foo will FETCH { ... } will STORE { ... };
18:59 Juerd Two different closures for the same thing.
19:02 nothingmuch ruoso: the problem with p5optree is that it's too low level
19:02 nothingmuch but if you start on that larry will be very greatful
19:02 nothingmuch i think what we *really* want is a perl5opparsetree to perl5 ast
19:02 nothingmuch and then a perl 5 ast to perl 6 ast
19:03 ruoso hmm... so a p5 ast is to be defined yet
19:03 PerlJam ruoso: do you grok PIR?
19:06 ruoso PerlJam, not yet...
19:06 nothingmuch ruoso: yes, that's perl 5's biggest problem
19:06 nothingmuch as far as compilation is concerned
19:07 nothingmuch the parse tree doesn't have enough semantic meaning
19:07 nothingmuch and the optree is too implementation specific
19:07 ruoso PerlJam, I'm a little skeptical about something that could represent anything high-level...
19:08 ruoso PerlJam, But I have to take a look...
19:08 PerlJam ruoso: Well, do you grok perl6 rules?
19:08 ruoso PerlJam, yes...
19:08 PerlJam ruoso: maybe it would be useful for you to hack on the perl6 grammar?
19:09 ruoso PerlJam, Probably...
19:09 ruoso PerlJam, do you have something specific to point me at?
19:09 ruoso PerlJam, I mean, docs
19:11 PerlJam ruoso: um, look in the parrot source tree in languages/perl6
19:13 ruoso ooops... http://svn.perl.org/viewcvs/parrot/ throwing error
19:13 ruoso RuntimeError: instance.__dict__ not accessible in restricted mode
19:36 pawel_ joined perl6
19:36 pawel_ hi all
19:36 pawel_ is now known as pmurias
19:37 nothingmuch hi
19:47 fglock pmurias: hi!
19:54 pmurias PerlJam: do you need read or write PIR skills?
19:55 PerlJam pmurias: I need time.  :-)
19:55 Arathorn is now known as Aragone
19:55 PerlJam I can read/write perl5, pir, perl6, rules, etc. but I have no time.
19:55 PerlJam I was suggesting to ruoso that something of use would be to work on the perl6 language stuff in the parrot tree since it's coming to fruition
19:56 PerlJam (i.e., there were some checkins over the weekend dealing with the perl6 grammat and what not)
20:01 pmurias personally i really dislike pir, i don't have any assembler or BASIC experience so it's a pain for me to deciphere all those gotos
20:02 PerlJam I've always thought PIR remarkably similar to perl.
20:02 PerlJam (aside from the weird assembly-isms)
20:06 trym joined perl6
20:13 pasteling "ruoso" at 201.9.29.142 pasted "Test rule emitted code" (19 lines, 417B) at http://sial.org/pbot/16499
20:14 ruoso fglock, please take a look at the paste
20:14 ruoso fglock, is it correct as a rule method declaration?
20:15 ruoso fglock, I know it's dirty... but it works...
20:15 ruoso fglock, maybe Pugs::Compiler::Rule could offer an initialization with the code sub already defined...
20:17 tri joined perl6
20:18 KingDiamond okay, quick question: why does slurp() take the filename as a param and not a file object?
20:18 pmurias KingDiamond: more usefull in short scripts
20:19 ruoso KingDiamond, according to Perl6::Slurp it can take a file object too
20:19 KingDiamond ruoso: yeah, it apparently does but, interestingly, I get different outputs using slurp($file_obj) and slurp("filename"); why?
20:20 ruoso KingDiamond, interesting... do you have a test case?
20:20 KingDiamond I'm trying to read a binary file, if it helps
20:20 KingDiamond yeah, gimme a sec
20:20 fglock ruoso: how about: *{'rule'} = PCR->compile( '<?p6ws>*' )->code; - this is much cleaner
20:21 ruoso fglock, but then I didn't compile the code at first
20:21 ruoso I'll have to compile everytime...
20:21 ruoso fglock, a rule declaration can be compiled at compile time... it doesn't need to be compiled at ruuntime
20:22 pmurias fglock: why does PGR->rule("%hash") return undef?
20:22 fglock ruoso: ok - we'd better add an 'emit_method' or something
20:23 fglock pmurias: did you define the %hash rule? currently it emits a warning and returns undef
20:24 DesreveR is now known as r0nny
20:25 pmurias it does *not* emit a warning, end according to the PGR/Rule.pm &variable handles the hash case
20:25 pmurias s/end/and/
20:25 fglock ruoso: your code uses internals - it would break if PCR changes
20:27 fglock pmurias: see P::Emitter::Rule::Perl5 line 122
20:27 fglock bbiab &
20:27 ruoso fglock, I know... probably we need a 'compiled' method... like my $rule = P::C::R->compiled(sub { ... });
20:33 macroron joined perl6
20:48 * ruoso is considering using Symbol::Glob to have the rule object as the scalar value and the rule method as the code value
21:00 fglock joined perl6
21:03 fglock ruoso: like '$rule' and 'sub rule'?
21:04 SamB joined perl6
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21:14 ruoso fglock, yes...
21:14 ruoso fglock, actually Symbol::Glob is a little weird...
21:14 ruoso fglock, doing by hand seems easier
21:15 ruoso fglock, then both will be available... and the push problem is solved
21:16 fglock ruoso: the push problem is going to be fixed with Pugs::Grammar::Category (opp.pl is a prototype)
21:18 fglock ruoso: when you get a declaration like 'sub infix:<x> {...}' you add the sub to category 'infix' and it's done
21:18 ruoso fglock, I agree that 'sub infix:<x>' must work... but push @rules, $rule; should work also
21:19 ruoso since rules can be defined as "my $rule = rule {...}"
21:20 KingDiamond hmm... so looks like I was wrong (thankfully) about the slurp() thing... however, something's goign wrong when I'm concatenating strings with binary data
21:20 fglock ruoso: there are categories 'rxsomething' - see S05 (near end of file)
21:28 hexmode joined perl6
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21:31 pasteling "ruoso" at 201.9.29.142 pasted "Another rule declaration proposal... presuming P::C::R->compiled(CODE) is available..." (22 lines, 448B) at http://sial.org/pbot/16500
21:32 ruoso fglock, please take a look at the paste
21:34 p5evalbot joined perl6
21:36 fglock ruoso: $rule needs a closure with a predefined grammar
21:38 ruoso fglock, hmmm... ok...
21:39 ruoso fglock, the rule object can have that defined, right?
21:39 ruoso fglock, I mean in the compilation
21:40 ruoso fglock, oh... now I noticed...
21:40 fglock ruoso: no, because you need inheritance to work
21:40 ruoso fglock, I was dumb
21:40 ruoso fglock, the sub definition is wrong
21:41 ruoso fglock, it should be *{'rule'} = ${'rule'}->code();
21:41 eric256 you know if you are the only two talking you can drop the names right? :)
21:41 pasteling "ruoso" at 201.9.29.142 pasted "*fixed* Another rule declaration proposal... presuming P::C::R->compiled(CODE) is available..." (20 lines, 431B) at http://sial.org/pbot/16501
21:42 fglock eric256: no more :)
21:42 ruoso eric256, yeah... now we have three
21:42 ruoso :)
21:42 ruoso eric256, in my IRC client I get noticed when someone speaks my name
21:43 eric256 ahhh
21:43 eric256 i mean... ruoso, ahhh
21:43 eric256 ;)
21:46 nnunley joined perl6
21:47 ruoso fglock, considering the fix... what do you think?
21:47 fglock sorry, I don't see what are you trying to do
21:47 larsen joined perl6
21:48 ruoso fglock, lrep-compiler?
21:48 ruoso fglock, trying to find out the perl 5 equivalent code to some perl 6 code...
21:50 fglock ruoso: you want perl5 versions for variable and method, right?
21:52 ruoso right
21:54 fglock how about making a PCR subclass?
21:55 ruoso fglock, the difference is that I don't want to compile at runtime...
21:55 ruoso fglock, I'll compile and dump the code of the rules as perl5 code
21:55 ruoso fglock, compiling Perl6.p6 to Perl6.pm
21:56 ruoso and then lrep.p6 to lrep
21:56 ruoso and so on
22:00 fglock ruoso: you don't need Pugs::Compiler::Rule - you can write a small program that dumps the compiled code to a file - you only need Pugs::Grammar::Rule and Pugs::Emitter::Rule::Perl5
22:01 ruoso fglock, Pugs::Compiler::Rule provides convenience methods, such as ->code() and ->match()...
22:02 ruoso fglock, I just need to restore the $rule from the compiled code
22:03 fglock ruoso: you can build a PCR pre-compiled object with bless{ code => eval "..." }, PCR;
22:03 ruoso fglock, but ok... I'll subclass it to implement...
22:03 ruoso fglock, that's from where I started...
22:03 ruoso fglock, the first paste looked like this
22:05 stevan_ joined perl6
22:05 fglock we could implement a 'dump' method to return this
22:05 ruoso fglock, I already use $rule->{perl5} to get the compiled code...
22:06 ruoso fglock, a method for this would be nice...
22:06 fglock ok!
22:06 ruoso fglock, I just need to recreate the rule at runtime with the code saved at compiletime
22:07 ruoso fglock, in the last paste the code is the resulting $rule->{perl5} of a compilation...
22:08 ruoso i mean, the code inside the ->compiled()
22:10 fglock ruoso: you can try: instead of 'Pugs::Compiler::Rule->compiled(' - ${'rule'} = bless{ code => sub {...} }, Pugs::Compiler::Rule;
22:10 ruoso fglock, I know that works... I already tried that...
22:11 ruoso fglock, the problem is that it counts on too many internals...
22:11 ruoso but forget it... I'll subclass it and implement...
22:15 fglock ruoso: i put it in the TODO list - so I'll not forget
22:15 svnbot6 r9756 | fglock++ | PCR - added a serializer/Dump to TODO list
22:16 fglock later &
22:16 fglock left perl6
22:18 m joined perl6
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23:12 svnbot6 r9757 | ruoso++ | lrep close to work with the new PCR...
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