Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2006-04-08

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:06 webmind clkao, good luck
00:11 weinig joined perl6
00:12 azuroth oh, space before postfixes has been scrapped... cool
00:12 Khisanth joined perl6
00:14 weinig is now known as weinig|out
00:18 TimToady azuroth: see "Another dotty idea" in p6l for yet another simplification of postfix syntax that also gives us start/stop comments
00:19 TimToady In short $x.#( your ad here ).foo treats .#() as comment and reduces to $x.foo
00:19 TimToady unlike # line ending comments, would not count as whitespace.
00:20 TimToady And we can stop people from asking about nestable comments by providing them.
00:22 stevan_ joined perl6
00:23 azuroth interesting...
00:25 TimToady any delimiter allowed after the .#, by the way, for those readers without access to p6l...
00:26 marmic_ joined perl6
00:28 TreyHarris I'm right about the expected behavior of INIT return, right? http://sial.org/pbot/16660 returns nothing, but http://sial.org/pbot/16661 returns 72... they should both return 72, yes?
00:31 azuroth it looks like it
00:31 TimToady don't think so
00:31 TimToady the pseudo-assignment of a declarator happens at a time determined by the declarator
00:32 TreyHarris TimToady: I was following your example of localtime() and mktempfile() in S04... I thought...
00:32 TimToady just happens that "my $x = " happens at execution time, and the first example reduces at INIT time to my $foo = 72;
00:34 TimToady those just calculate the value at BEGIN or FIRST time, but the assignment is still at execution time.  If you want it to happen earlier,
00:34 TimToady you have to use "state $foo = " or "constant $foo ="
00:34 azuroth S04: s/would require travel back in time/would require traveling back in time/  ?
00:34 TimToady which imply FIRST and BEGIN time.
00:35 TreyHarris ahh.  and in this example, with a lexically hidden counter, I would want 'state'?  or would I want "my $counter; BEGIN { $counter =..."?  either would work
00:35 TimToady traveling and travel are both nouns, technically
00:36 TreyHarris TimToady: you tagmemic.  traveling is an N-bar :-)
00:36 TimToady you can also use "my $counter is begin(...)"
00:37 TimToady I outtagmemificated...
00:37 azuroth "I'm traveling".. hmm, ok. "would require to travel back in time"?
00:37 azuroth I guess it makes sense as it is. it sounded weird to me at first though
00:38 TimToady that one is just a progressive verb.  but "require travelling" is a gerund according to the high-school English teacher.
00:39 azuroth yarrg, ok I won't argue!
00:39 TimToady you can't argue with high-school English teachers...
00:39 TreyHarris you can tell that travelling is a "gerund" because it takes the genitive for a subject: "require my travelling back in time".
00:40 TimToady the travelling is what gets to me...
00:40 TimToady the doubling of 'l' in travelling also gets to me...
00:40 TimToady but then, so does the non-doubling...
00:41 TimToady neither way looks right to me anymore.
00:41 TimToady the perils of being intercultural.
00:41 TimToady another one    ^^^^^
00:41 TimToady s/  / /
00:42 azuroth maybe we should rename traveling to travelere or something
00:42 TreyHarris TimToady: me too.  I see too much commonwealth English, and "whilst" and "fulfil" and such creep into my writing
00:42 TimToady or we could just pronounce it with the emphasis on the last syllable, which would justify doubling the 'l'.
00:43 TimToady unless we also lengthen the 'e', in which case it would be one 'l'.
00:43 azuroth yeah, but when was the last time anyone renamed a word? we've gotta have _some_ fun
00:43 TreyHarris ok, so "state $x = localtime", $x gets localtime at BEGIN time?  but "constant $y = localtime", $y gets localtime at start of first block entry?
00:43 TimToady no state happens at FIRST time.
00:44 TimToady constant happens at BEGIN time.
00:44 TimToady we don't really have an INIT time declarator.
00:44 TreyHarris ah, got them reversed.
00:45 TimToady arguably our could do that, but people are used to assignment semantics there from P5.
00:47 TreyHarris TimToady: I discovered last week that if I teach my Perl class labeled blocks on the same day I mention the named special code blocks (that's what they were called in P5, right?), they are liable to get confused and write "BEGIN: { $lib_args = ... }; use Foo $lib_args" and wonder why it doesn't work
00:47 TimToady some speculation in p6l that we should write labels as Lines: instead of LINES: to prevent that confusion.
00:48 * audreyt @ osdc... currently projecting #perl6 on the big screen
00:48 TimToady hi everyone!
00:48 audreyt (the talk is due to start in 12mins)
00:48 azuroth hi perlers!
00:48 audreyt :D
00:49 TreyHarris TimToady: yeah, I started that, I think...
00:49 * audreyt wonders how many in the room knows that TimToady = Larry Wall
00:49 TimToady I just proposed .#() as embedded comment and as replacement for "long dot", which seems like a simplification.
00:49 TimToady I'm not sure even TimToady realizes that all the time...
00:50 TreyHarris he's TimToady, he's the real TimToady, all the other... nevermind.
00:50 TimToady audreyt: which talk are you giving now?
00:50 TimToady and have you finished writing it?
00:51 TimToady (obviously not...)
00:53 TimToady Hmm, actually, wouldn't that be TimToady =:= Larry Wall?
00:54 TreyHarris TimToady: depends.  maybe "TimToady" is an IRC handle object that is getting assigned certain aspects of Larry Wall through a coercion?
00:55 arcady probably TimToady ~~ Larry Wall
00:55 arcady can't go wrong with that one, I hope
00:55 TimToady I certainly don't feel like a readonly alias...
00:55 TimToady maybe I just delegate to myself.
00:55 TimToady Nah, I'm so bad at delegation that I even delegate my delegating to other people.
00:55 audreyt rehi
00:56 audreyt TimToady: this is supposedly 3hr talk on pugs
00:56 audreyt but I only have 50min of it
00:56 TimToady never stopped you before.
00:56 audreyt the next half Ihave no idea
00:56 audreyt maybe I'll simply plagiar^Wadapt your talk
00:56 TimToady just give 'em a little break in the middle...
00:56 audreyt may I do that?
00:56 TimToady sure
00:56 audreyt :D
00:56 audreyt TimToady++
00:56 audreyt TimToady: actually... your israel talk may work better
00:56 audreyt you have the .ppt somewhere?
00:57 TimToady er, good question.  they have it up somewhere in .il
00:57 TimToady hang on...
00:57 audreyt thanks :)
00:58 TimToady http://wall.org/~larry/StumpIL.ppt
00:58 * audreyt prays that OOo can handle it
00:58 TimToady that's what I used in .il
00:58 TimToady so should work, if you're recent enough
00:59 audreyt 2.0-rel here
00:59 stevan_ audreyt: if you need me to, I can convert it to PDF for you :)
00:59 audreyt works
00:59 TimToady OOo++
00:59 audreyt stevan_: what format is yours in?
01:00 stevan_ audreyt: I have M$ office and can "print to PDF"
01:00 audreyt stevan_: cool, url please -- I'll probably have the audience pick the slide to use in the second half of the talk
01:00 audreyt stevan_: nah, .ppt is just dine
01:00 audreyt s/dine/fine/
01:00 stevan_ ok
01:00 audreyt ok, the talk is starting... I'm switching you off the big screen :)
01:00 audreyt bbiab &
01:00 TimToady bye
01:00 TreyHarris bye bye
01:00 stevan_ bye bye
01:01 TimToady we've been de-takahashied...
01:01 * stevan_ goes to read TimToady 's ppt
01:01 TreyHarris where were we being ogled from?  Taipei?
01:01 stevan_ poor substitute for actually having gone to .il
01:01 TimToady yup
01:01 TimToady yup
01:02 TimToady but the takahashified version of my stump speech is even more cryptic.
01:03 * Juerd wonders if takahashification fits on a Scrabble board
01:03 obra google:  Results 1 - 1 of 1 for takahashification. (0.48 seconds)
01:04 Juerd 10:49:06 <autrijus>
01:04 TimToady please tell me it's not a reference back to #perl6...
01:04 Juerd TimToady: Almost :)
01:04 obra nope #haskell
01:04 obra and hahhahahahaha. audrey.
01:04 obra Wow. so meta
01:04 TimToady figgers
01:04 TreyHarris ah, this slide show begins the same as the talk you gave at LISA in... 2002?
01:04 obra 10:49:06 <autrijus> it's the takahashification process that's hard... it's just 45min, can't go into anything detail
01:04 Juerd obra: /me is rotflol :)
01:05 TimToady yep.  One of these centuries I'll have to come up with a new talk.
01:05 TimToady Actually it keeps mutating over time.
01:05 obra TimToady: Right around Perl 7.
01:05 Juerd Good night, folks
01:05 obra "Perl 7000"
01:05 TimToady Actually, I come up with a new talk every OSCON.  It's everyone else gets the same talk.
01:05 TimToady 'nite Juerd.
01:06 TimToady Though arguably all my OSCON talks are the same talk too...
01:06 * stevan_ is pondering a talk this year for YAPC::NA, but is getting brain block on the abstract
01:07 TimToady Basically I never sign up for talks I have to write the abstract of in advance.
01:07 TreyHarris http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Takahashi_method
01:07 stevan_ yeah but your TimToady :P
01:07 stevan_ is now known as stevan
01:08 TimToady there's got to be some advantaget to it somewhere...
01:08 * stevan suspects its the throngs of female groupies, but can't say for sure
01:09 TimToady my throng of female groupies I can count on the fingers of one hand, and that's about all I'm allowed to do with 'em. :)
01:09 stevan :)
01:10 merlyn at least you *have* female groupies
01:10 merlyn mine are all psychotic
01:10 obra One would think you'd be allowed to take Gloria out to a movie or for an ice cream sundae occasionally.
01:10 TimToady who says mine aren't?
01:10 merlyn sending me samples of their cut hair, etc.
01:10 * stevan decides to not send that "package" to merlyn now
01:10 TimToady Gloria tends to transcend groupiehood in various ways.
01:11 obra Fair enough. *grin*
01:11 TreyHarris merlyn: where'd you come from?  you *are* merlyn--you can just pop in from nowhere
01:11 merlyn it's true
01:11 * TreyHarris waves
01:12 merlyn particulates
01:12 * TimToady fields tagmemically
01:15 TreyHarris i've seen Lessig speak.  it's impressive, but I imagine he has interns or grad students to help him with his slides
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01:20 azuroth by the way... what's the deal with the bugs manifesto?
01:22 xern joined perl6
01:30 TimToady have you seen the Pugs Manifest from Audrey?
01:30 stevan azuroth: check the date on its release ;)
01:30 TimToady we shoulda put a link to it...
01:31 azuroth ahh, ok. I haven't seen it
01:32 xinming TimToady: You've mentioned that .#() will become multi-line comments, hmm, I wonder, will it be implemented as a macro or postfix operator?
01:33 stevan wouldnt it be a circumfix instead of a postfix actually?
01:34 xinming oops. circumfix... :-/
01:36 arcady well, it'd have to be a macro
01:36 arcady since you don't want it looking at what's inside the ()
01:36 arcady (other than to figure out where the right ) is
01:37 arcady or actually. it's a quotelike operator
01:38 arcady quotelike noop
01:38 xinming hmm, how about using .#(bla bla bla)  to comment a line instead of #? (I mean begin of a line)
01:39 xinming will it be parsed as a . operator, and then, comment begin?
01:40 arcady why would it do that?
01:40 arcady it would be a .# operator
01:41 xinming ok, IMHO, perl 6 will confuse more people than perl 5. :-P
01:41 arcady more and less
01:42 azuroth $x.#(blah blah).foo will be a . operator though, of course
01:50 arcady .#() is grammatically a little weird, because it is like nothing at all
01:50 arcady as opposed to regular comments, which are like whitespace
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02:04 TimToady I'm busy revising S02 again, and it looks like it's working out very nicely.
02:05 TimToady Particularly since we still get a shorthand . . that is taken to be equivalent to .#. .
02:08 TimToady The other comments are naturally defined to make the "extra" newline into the whitespace.
02:08 TimToady So #... only extends *to* the newline at the end.
02:08 TimToady and =begin doesn't hide the newline before it.
02:15 TimToady or actually, ". ." is equivalent to ".#. .." so it still does the "long dot" trick visually.
02:16 TimToady have just checked in new S02.
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02:30 TimToady pmichaud: see newest S02?
02:31 pmichaud TimToady: as of ...?
02:31 pmichaud the one you just committed, with C< .# > ?
02:31 TimToady 'bout 15 minutes ago
02:31 TimToady yes.
02:31 pmichaud I looked briefly through it.  You didn't like (or didn't see) the alternative  C< #. > proposal?
02:31 TimToady also have a response to the #. proposal queued, but my mailer is not sending right now.
02:31 pmichaud ah
02:31 pmichaud okay :-)
02:32 pmichaud I just sent a second response about 5 minutes ago
02:32 TimToady I prefer the "shape" of .#() as a pseudo-method call.
02:32 pmichaud I buy that
02:32 TimToady looks more distinctive too in isolation
02:32 pmichaud I was thinking that  #.(  )  itself looked like a comment method call :-)
02:32 TimToady #. is too square on the front, and easily confused with plain #
02:33 pmichaud I agree with squareness on the front.  I don't think it's too confusing -- I don't think people will commonly use #. except as a whitespace eater
02:33 pmichaud or as a delimited comment
02:34 TimToady also, I think $x# looks too much like the # is part of the $x.  it really need the dot in between.
02:34 pmichaud I agree there as well
02:34 TimToady And I just like the it looks like # is the name of the method in .#()
02:35 TimToady *that
02:35 pmichaud yup, I have to agree
02:35 pmichaud could we use the "whitespace after #" trick here as well, so that we get                $x.#           .foo()     ?
02:35 pmichaud or does S02 already say that
02:35 pmichaud ?
02:36 TimToady you just write that $x.    .foo() now.  ". ." is short for ".#.  .."
02:36 azuroth maybe . isn't obtrusive enough
02:37 TimToady is there.  when it's not, use .#[]
02:37 TimToady you almost always use "long dot" for lining things up, so there's redundant dots all up and down.
02:38 azuroth $x##(foo is great).foo();
02:38 pmichaud TimToady: okay, I like it -- especially when you put it that way
02:39 pmichaud the redundant dots is a very good point
02:39 TimToady azuroth: no, that would destroy ###################### blocks.
02:39 pmichaud I'm much happier with this than with the gappy dot that we had previously
02:39 TimToady me too.
02:39 pmichaud and I like this much better than the lengthy dots ('......')
02:39 TimToady cost me a nap worrying it though...
02:40 audreyt stevan: url to your talk?
02:40 pmichaud perhaps a small price to pay?  Or are you still recovering from .jp?
02:40 azuroth TimToady: are you polyphasic? or just like naps?
02:40 TimToady mostly residual jetlag, probably.  have to get up at 5am tomorrow to go down to San Diego and give a talk...
02:40 azuroth ahh
02:41 TimToady I do have many phases though. :)
02:42 azuroth when are you coming to Australia to give a talk? ;-)
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02:46 TimToady dunno.  haven't scheduled an Australia phase yet.  I think I was supposed to come during my mid-life crisis, but my mid-life crisis turned out to be a rather pitifully small thing, as mid-life crises go...
02:47 TimToady all I did was scrap my life's work and start over...
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02:49 kattana_ Refactored hmm?
02:53 TimToady Maybe with a quantum computer refactoring can be sped up...
02:55 TimToady Just call any(=io("*.rfc")) and see what pops out.
03:04 Limbic_Region was our channel just attacked?
03:05 pmichaud Limbic_Region: I didn't notice anything
03:06 pmichaud Limbic_Region: (other than the message from lilo asking if we were attacked)
03:06 Limbic_Region ok - it appeared to be a targeted message though as #perl didn't receive it
03:10 TreyHarris Limbic_Region: no channel received it... it was a global mesg, so each user should have received it once
03:15 FurnaceBoy_ "Australia phase" ?
03:16 FurnaceBoy_ lots of Perl fans there :)
03:16 FurnaceBoy_ rabid ones
03:20 azuroth hmm. use cases and scenarios just don't do it for me
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05:06 azuroth hmm
05:08 arcady hmm?
05:08 azuroth I just realised, when you're buying something with cash it's the change that's rounded, not the amount to pay. don't know why I never realised that before
05:42 TreyHarris i.e., if it's $1.01, you have to pay at least $1.05, and you get nothing back?
05:42 azuroth s/.01/.04/
05:43 azuroth yes, which carries over to paying by EFTPOS nicely
05:43 TreyHarris ah, but if it's $1.01, you get it for a dollar?
05:44 azuroth humm, good point. unless you paid $1.00 and the change was -0.01, which would round down to 0 :-p
05:44 azuroth err, up
05:45 azuroth so both cash in and cash out need to be rounded-ish
05:45 arcady well, that's nice and clever
05:45 arcady in the US nothing is rounded
05:45 arcady well, the sales tax is rounded to the nearest cent
05:46 arcady (and sometimes it's something like 8.625%)
05:47 azuroth so you buy something for $0.99 and you get one cent change? gee
05:47 arcady better yet
05:47 arcady the 99 cent store sells everything for 99 cents
05:47 arcady so you need $1.07 to actually buy anything
05:48 azuroth argh
05:48 arcady so you get 93 cents change
05:48 arcady there's actually a clever fast food chain that includes sales tax and pre-rounds everything to 5 cents
05:51 azuroth hmm. I guess 10% GST _is_ a good thing, compared to alternatives
05:51 arcady oh, and then there's the fact that the 1 cent coin is bigger than the 10 cent coin
05:51 arcady yeah
05:51 arcady here sales tax is pretty arbitrary, varying by state, county, city, and often special tax districts on top of that
05:54 arcady and then there's alaska... no sales tax, no state tax, and they actually pay you to live there
05:54 azuroth ...what?
05:55 arcady they put all the money they collected off the oil industry in the Alaska Permanent Fund
05:55 ayrnieu azuroth - yes.
05:55 arcady and everyone gets an annual share of the interest
05:55 arcady presumably this somehow makes up for not seeing the sun for half the year
05:55 ayrnieu Two thousand dollars or so, last I heard.
05:56 ayrnieu arcady - makes up for?  Added bonus!
05:56 azuroth what a crazy place...
05:56 ayrnieu Alaskans refer to summer as 'road-building season'.  All construction starts then, and is fast, because it absolutely stops in winter.
05:56 ayrnieu azuroth - extreme environments can be fun.
05:59 arcady yep. pepole there fly to work. on their own airplanes
05:59 azuroth ... you americans are all crazy
06:00 TimToady is now known as aTimToady
06:01 aTimToady I see only people whose nics start with "a" are allowed now...
06:01 azuroth is now known as TimToady
06:01 TimToady not any more
06:01 TimToady is now known as azuroth
06:01 aTimToady is now known as TimToady
06:02 ayrnieu always the there being more than one way to do it!
06:02 azuroth only places starting with 'a' can be talked about, also
06:02 TimToady all places start with 'a'
06:03 azuroth exactly
06:06 azuroth hmm. credit vouchers.
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06:55 gaal "quotelike nooperator"
07:00 azuroth goatlike goat goat
07:08 Barry joined perl6
07:15 arcady clearly, perl needs more goatlike operators
07:17 gaal beeeh.
07:18 audreyt did pugs_intro + stumpjp + parrot(why,where,when) today
07:18 audreyt tomorrow will do haskell + peek
07:18 audreyt (stumpjp = larry's closing keynote to yapc::asia; parrot(www) is jonathan's)
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07:28 azuroth three hours of talking? well done
07:28 audreyt thanks... I very much miss resuming hacking+journaling though :/
07:28 audreyt wireless is crappy here
07:28 audreyt (as with most conferences)
07:29 audreyt at least food is good
07:29 * audreyt is watching a demo of XCode class browser/model builder and is reminded again of how good OO could be
07:30 audreyt (though to be fair, Eclipse seems to be getting there)
07:31 azuroth is there a video stream? ;-p
07:32 * gaal randomly took a look at the new stuff in Eclipse 3.2 - pretty amazing work they're doing there
07:32 gaal of course half of it is only needed because, uh, the bureaucracy
07:33 audreyt . o O (vogons with their interplanatary bulldozers)
07:33 arcady eclipse makes java almost bearable
07:34 arcady a feature of eclipse? or a bug of java?
07:34 audreyt both...
07:34 audreyt "the culture can fix the language"
07:35 gaal I feel like giving more than one talk in yapc, but I'm out of ideas. (audrey, not sure about the ghc thing)
07:36 gaal hmmm, maybe "the pugs test system and how you can use it for your perl5 projects"?
07:37 azuroth "creating FORTRAN macro-laden perl6"
07:38 gaal "The ASM backend"
07:38 gaal not.
07:38 audreyt gaal: HTMLMatrix is at most a lightning talk
07:38 audreyt +smokeserv, maybe 20mins
07:38 gaal i wasn thinking, yeah.
07:38 gaal +cataloger
07:39 audreyt mmm hmm
07:39 gaal catalogger
07:39 gaal analoger, hylologer...
07:41 gaal zygologer, paraloger...
07:41 audreyt metalogger, monologger
07:41 gaal antiquasilogger
07:42 gaal see? enough for a 20 minute talk. :-)
07:42 audreyt it's all greek to me
07:42 gaal don't worry, it's all equivalent to monads
07:43 audreyt you mean symmetric premonoidal categories with algebraic structures
07:44 gaal \x -> take (1+(2*x)) $ concat $ repeat "~Y"
07:45 gaal what I mean of course is analytic and algebraic topology of locally Euclidean metrization
07:45 gaal of infinitely differentiable Riemannian manifold
07:45 gaal (Bozhe moi!)
07:45 audreyt bozhe moi
07:45 gaal heh heh
07:47 gaal I know! I know! I'll give a talk on "Type Inference in Brainfuck"
07:48 arcady hm. I wonder if there can exist such a thing as Objective Brainfuck
07:48 gaal Subjective Brainfuck
07:48 gaal or is that Surjective?
07:49 azuroth hmm. I think it already is subjective
07:50 ayrnieu a language capable of N-dimensional time-travel with backtracking and a versatile array of feral and tame extensions is surely not a language powerful enough for OO and type inference.
07:50 audreyt hm, objc distinguishes between
07:50 audreyt "buffer"
07:50 audreyt and
07:50 audreyt @"string"
07:50 audreyt I wonder if we need somehow a buffer object constructor literal
07:51 audreyt probably not something to worry about right now
07:51 azuroth interesting... better yet would be compile-time constructors, if I'm not going crazy?
07:54 azuroth macro MakeBuf(String $a){ turn literal $a into a linked-list or whatever }; $a = MakeBuf("foo"); ?
07:55 gaal audreyt: url on what the distinction entails?
07:57 audreyt gaal: http://www.carbondev.com/site/?page=Cocoa
07:57 audreyt azuroth: that would do, yeah
08:00 gaal scary sentences:
08:00 gaal "You can print almost any object out using NSLog"
08:00 gaal "Almost everything in Cocoa is an object"
08:02 gaal Is there a word in English analogous to "contrarian", where the force of the difference is in saying "but" in the sense of a qualification and not opposition?
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08:02 ayrnieu gaal - pedant.
08:02 gaal lol
08:02 azuroth scary syntax...
08:02 ayrnieu qualitarian.
08:03 gaal cocoalitarian
08:03 ayrnieu contraqualitarian.
08:03 gaal ha! turns out that _e_qualitarian is a word: it's a synonym for egalitarian
08:04 gaal in the noun sense.
08:04 ayrnieu yes.
08:05 ayrnieu Where by 'real' you mean 'used'.  If you start using 'contraqualitarian' now, you'll either have a real and decent word for your subject or someone will send you an angry email telling you to use some other, superior term.
08:05 gaal a rabbi, a priest, and equalitarian step into a bar...
08:06 gaal except I didn't say "real" :)
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08:08 ayrnieu sorry, I translated something you said with structure into an idiomatic noun: 'real word'.
08:08 gaal I am teh tricksy
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08:35 azuroth I'm speed racer and I drive real fast
08:35 ayrnieu I'm a big pirate and I like to steal
08:36 azuroth I'm your doctor and here's the bill!
08:37 Barry I'm Perl 6 and I take my time.
08:38 audreyt Barry++
08:38 audreyt Barry++
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08:41 azuroth party time
08:45 gaal audreyt, ISTR you had an alias to open the .hs source of GHC modules (eg IORef) from the shell. can I have it?
08:45 audreyt I really don't
08:45 gaal you grep -r 'module Foo' ?
08:45 audreyt locate IORef.hs | grep ghc/libraries | xargs vim
08:46 gaal ah, better
08:46 gaal thanks :)
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08:48 gaal the docs for (++) mention here
08:48 gaal # http://haskell.org/ghc/docs/latest/html/libraries/base/Prelude.html#v%3A%2B%2B
08:48 gaal that a ++ b  is a if a is infinite
08:48 gaal now, of course that's effectively true
08:49 gaal but the compiler has no way of knowing it in the general case. so why mention it?
08:49 ayrnieu (documentation?)
08:50 gaal well, I'm sorta applying the pragmatics take on grice's maxims here
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08:51 audreyt gaal:
08:51 gaal if something's obvious but somebody bothered to mention it in otherwise terse documentation, there's presumably something subtle going on
08:51 audreyt (++) []     ys = ys
08:51 audreyt (++) (x:xs) ys = x : xs ++ ys
08:51 audreyt gaal: the compiler doesn't have to know
08:51 audreyt lazy eval takes care of that
08:51 azuroth !
08:52 gaal well, sure, okay
08:52 pasteling "masak" at 130.238.83.176 pasted "Why don't the subroutines &a and &b return the same results?" (32 lines, 1K) at http://sial.org/pbot/16665
08:52 masak this confused me greatly last night
08:52 masak help appreciated
08:54 audreyt masak: try s/&&/and/
08:55 masak i will
08:55 audreyt otherwise (4,5) associates to &&
08:56 masak ah
08:56 audreyt && is tighter than listop
08:56 masak yes, "and" works
08:56 ayrnieu why use grep on (4,5) instead of 4|5 ?
08:56 masak ayrnieu: (4,5) is a special case of an array I have
08:56 masak I was trying to understand the phenomenon
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08:57 masak audreyt: thx, the thing about priority explains everything
08:57 nothing_pasta is now known as nothingmuch
09:02 nothingmuch audreyt++
09:05 audreyt JSR 292 makes targetting JVM finally possible (err, sane):
09:05 audreyt http://www.jcp.org/en/jsr/detail?id=292
09:05 audreyt finally approved, coming to Java 7
09:06 audreyt "invokedynamic" opcode
09:06 nothingmuch i need a volunteer that can do Getopt and Perl 5
09:06 nothingmuch i can't write proper CLIs
09:06 nothingmuch or rather, i've never tried/learned
09:06 nothingmuch and I haven't the time
09:06 nothingmuch this is for the smokeserver upload script
09:06 nothingmuch it should be able to upload a serialized report
09:06 nothingmuch or upload a t/ dir
09:06 nothingmuch or serialize a t/ dir
09:07 nothingmuch by t/ dir
09:07 nothingmuch i mean: run the tests
09:07 nothingmuch it should be able to say '-t "this is a single tag" -t foo -t bar'
09:07 audreyt nothingmuch: App::CLI ?
09:08 audreyt Getopt::Long and use "t=s@"
09:08 audreyt that's all
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09:10 nothingmuch i'll keep that in mind
09:10 nothingmuch anyway, i'm working on the server
09:10 nothingmuch if anyone wants to volunteer before I get around to the client
09:10 nothingmuch feel free
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11:02 _meppl guten morgen
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11:04 nothingmuch hi ho
11:05 meppl good morning nothingmuch
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16:10 lichtkind hello, is it possible to wirte in perl6 $arrayref = (1,); ?
16:13 wolverian yeah.
16:14 lichtkind thanks
16:17 lichtkind im witing some perl6 tut in german
16:19 lichtkind and in this sample the array will have only one item?
16:27 wolverian yeah. although you could as well say [1]
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16:36 lichtkind yes that also stand in synopsis
16:36 lichtkind thx :9
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17:03 rindolf gaal: here?
17:03 rindolf nothingmuch: here?
17:03 lichtkind seem so:) but people here are frienly
17:05 nothingmuch rindolf: yes
17:15 rindolf nothingmuch: hi! Happy Passover.
17:15 nothingmuch it's passover?
17:17 rindolf nothingmuch: on Wednesday.
17:19 rindolf nothingmuch: I unleashed 6 modules on CPAN this weekend. Three of them were different versions of Error.pm, though.
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20:10 rindolf joined perl6
20:10 rindolf Hi all!
20:10 rindolf TimToady: here?
20:15 * nothingmuch yawns
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