Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2006-05-08

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 aufrank specifically, if there are some params that are shared across different invocants, can that be declared with tiebreakers?
00:00 audreyt aufrank: S06, Invocant parameters
00:00 audreyt aufrank: give an example?
00:01 audreyt putter: er no. separate compilation.
00:01 audreyt putter: the compiler for a file always start from a clean state.
00:01 audreyt so the only way to influence parsing is by explicit 'use' and import from _that file_.
00:02 aufrank I'm in there now... there aren't any examples that use ( Str $a, Int $b : Num $b, Str $c : Set $d ) as you were describing yesterday
00:02 audreyt and indeed it's gone from the Synopses.
00:02 aufrank by design?
00:02 audreyt I don't know.
00:02 audreyt sec
00:03 audreyt see dconway's reply at http://www.codecomments.com/a​rchive312-2005-5-503396.html
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00:04 audreyt hm.
00:04 audreyt it gets infinitely simpler if we just have one tiebreaking level.
00:05 audreyt otoh, multilevel is useful to implement left-to-right instead of manhattan-distance tiebreaking.
00:05 putter so unknown idents default to prelist, and ref() works because it's in the prelude?
00:05 audreyt otgh, what's not specced does not exist
00:06 audreyt TimToady: multilevel tiebreaking. not specced. intentional? :)
00:06 audreyt putter: yes and yes.
00:06 audreyt putter: I imagine some day you can say
00:06 audreyt use Prelude <explicit list of things>
00:06 audreyt and kill the parts that you don't want
00:06 audreyt (same as in Hs)
00:06 putter k
00:07 wolverian except we don't have hiding, do we?
00:07 audreyt we don't.
00:08 aufrank as for my specific question, how about something like `multi sub apply_labels ( Set $unlabeled: @labels ) { ... };  multi sub apply_labels ( @unlabeled: @labels ) { ... };`
00:08 audreyt wolverian: otoh, if we say it accepts the Exporter spec of p5's
00:08 audreyt use Prelude <!ref>;
00:08 audreyt ought to do it.
00:08 aufrank both versions of the multi share a non-inv parameter
00:08 aufrank could you declare the two inv variations and the non-inv parameter all in one sig?
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00:09 audreyt aufrank: but if it's in one sig, how do you know if it's a Set?
00:10 audreyt multi app ( Set|Array $moose: @labels ) { ... }
00:10 audreyt does what you want, probably
00:10 aufrank is that the same as `multi ( Set $unlabeled : @unlabeled : @labels ) { ... } ?
00:11 aufrank whatever's after the last colon is the non-inv part of the signature?
00:12 audreyt if there is a colon, yes.
00:12 audreyt otherwise all params are taken to be inv
00:13 audreyt and no, it's not the same
00:13 audreyt Set|Array on the input param means that it can be satisfied by either a Set or an Array
00:13 audreyt and you'll have to use operations common to Set and Arrays to guarantee safety
00:13 audreyt until you do a typecasing
00:14 aufrank ok, I think I get it
00:14 audreyt cool. also, if multilevel tiebreaking is gone, then you don't have to parse multiple colons anymore
00:15 putter ;)
00:15 audreyt though I suspect left-to-right tiebreaking may have some real uses.
00:16 aufrank rule multi_sig { [ <single_sig> \: ]* <single_sig> } # any chance this is close?
00:16 audreyt (I just linked to andreas loh's paper on bringing "multi" and open data types to Hs)
00:17 audreyt # http://www.informatik.uni-bon​n.de/~loeh/OpenDatatypes.pdf
00:17 audreyt aufrank: that looks fine
00:17 audreyt though maybe
00:17 audreyt rule multi_sig { <single_sig> [ \: <single_sig> ]* }
00:18 audreyt because your version on the last sig will fail due to lack of backtracking
00:18 aufrank yeah, that's right
00:18 putter re arity, what about named greediness?  f g :a(1) :a(2)   g grabs none/both but no sharing?
00:18 aufrank should we include that there's an implicit $self if there aren't any \: in the multi sig?
00:19 aufrank or is that detected at the "production" level?
00:19 putter ... so parser needs to consult param names as well as arity?
00:21 audreyt putter: no, I think all named :a(1) are parsed into the "current" fun
00:21 audreyt putter: and if it turns out there's no such named param, boom.
00:22 audreyt aufrank: there is no implicit "self" if it's a multisub
00:22 putter ... f g :a(1) :b :a(2)   where f has a+b and g only a?
00:22 audreyt aufrank: it only goes there if it's a multimethod
00:22 aufrank putter: is your question about f (g, :a(1), :a(2)) v f( g(:a(1), :a(2))) ?
00:22 audreyt putter: in
00:22 audreyt  f g :a(1) :b :a(2)
00:22 audreyt I think it's always unambiguously
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00:23 audreyt  f(  g(  a=>1, b=>Bool::True, a=>2 )  )
00:23 audreyt and never any other interpretation
00:23 aufrank I agree
00:23 putter k
00:23 aufrank if you want another parse, marke arguments to g explicitly with parens, right?
00:23 audreyt yup.
00:24 audreyt f (g) :a(1)
00:24 audreyt f g() :a(1)
00:24 aufrank right
00:27 putter thanks for the clarifications
00:28 aufrank audreyt: should the signature parser also parse the leading parts of the sub declaration?  my Int foo ( @bar ) { +@bar } # is Int parsed as part of the sig?
00:28 clkao whoot
00:28 clkao madness is happening
00:28 aufrank hey clkao
00:28 clkao unfortunately i need to go to bed
00:28 audreyt clkao: I saw "svk ci --interactive"
00:28 clkao audreyt: did you try it?
00:29 audreyt nice job, but Iwonder if Term::ReadKey is more intuitive
00:29 audreyt yeah
00:29 clkao oh sure.
00:29 audreyt aufrank: yes, Int is implicitly -->'ed
00:29 clkao feel free to patch
00:29 clkao i just wanted to get that into trunk given that's in reasonable state (editors splitted by norman)
00:29 clkao otherwise it's going to fall behind again
00:29 clkao i have another branch of massive cleanups
00:29 aufrank audreyt: also multi|proto, and sub|method|submethod ?
00:30 aufrank and my|our ?
00:30 audreyt aufrank: the "my" part is not sig
00:30 audreyt none of them is sig actually
00:31 audreyt Int is
00:31 aufrank but RETTYPE is
00:31 aufrank ok, I can deal with that
00:31 audreyt cool
00:32 aufrank audreyt: do you have a suggestion about how to do defaults?  see line 80 of Signature.pg
00:33 aufrank I guess that's a separate question from defaults.  So a) how to do aliasing?  and b) how to do defaults?
00:34 szbalint audreyt: would you have a few minutes for a SoC related discussion?
00:34 audreyt aufrank: I think you can safely put stuff in external/itnernal name for now
00:35 audreyt instead of <name>[0]'ing it
00:35 audreyt as for defaults, parse for an '=' followed by an <expression>
00:35 audreyt and don't worry about how that's defined
00:35 audreyt szbalint: sure
00:35 aufrank so just have token external { <name> } , and use that in the parse?
00:35 szbalint mind if I pm?
00:36 audreyt that's fine
00:36 audreyt aufrank: yup
00:36 audreyt otoh, $<external> := <name>
00:36 audreyt works too
00:36 audreyt if you want explicit aliasing
00:37 aufrank maybe the explicit parse is more maintainable
00:38 audreyt yup
00:39 aufrank audreyt: I actually had a different meaning of default in mind.  positional defaults to required, named defaults to optional.
00:39 putter re defaults, need = <expr_above_comma> to avoid eating subsequent params
00:40 aufrank because `$a, $b, $c` is a valid <expression>, but could also be the rest of the param list ?
00:41 putter yes.  in ($a = 3, $b)  3,$b  is a valid expr
00:41 aufrank got it
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00:41 putter err, $a = 3, $b = 4   and 3,$b=4
00:42 nothingmuch win12
00:42 aufrank win12 to you too!
00:43 nothingmuch aufrank: =)
00:46 audreyt putter: actually, I came up with a better way
00:47 putter re arity, what about method calls?    f m o: 2 3    ": calls" greedy?
00:47 audreyt <expression(terminates => ',')>
00:47 audreyt putter: yes, a : makes things after it listop
00:48 putter $a = (3,4)  ?
00:49 putter post/circums extablish a new un-terminated <expr>?
00:49 audreyt yup
00:49 audreyt that also solves the
00:49 audreyt if expr -> {}
00:49 audreyt if expr {}
00:49 audreyt problem
00:50 audreyt by listing ->{} and {} as explicit terminators
00:51 aufrank nice
00:52 putter parsefail tokens :)
00:53 putter btw, has there been any discussion of sequence-of-longest-possible-exprs comma-free lists?
00:53 putter f 3 4 5
00:54 putter all it takes is adding a "wedge" state to the opp
00:54 aufrank is `sub foo (@a [$b, @c] = [3, [4, 5]]) { ... }` a valid sig?
00:54 audreyt aufrank: I'd think so.
00:54 aufrank or does it have to be (@a [$b = 3, @c = [4, 5]]) ?
00:55 aufrank good, that's easier ;)
00:55 audreyt :)
00:55 wolverian heh, so we have x@(a:b) too? neat :)
00:55 audreyt the two forms are subtly different :)
00:55 audreyt wolverian: yup :)
00:55 aufrank traits come after defaults?
00:55 aufrank or before?  or either?
00:56 audreyt unspecced
00:56 audreyt before, if you ask me
00:56 aufrank I like ($a = 3 is rw)
00:57 audreyt but "3 is rw"
00:57 audreyt may be calling infix:<is>
00:57 aufrank oh, yuck
00:57 aufrank ($a is rw = 3)
00:57 audreyt i.e. the terminating list will grow
00:57 audreyt yeah, I think I like that better
00:57 aufrank fine by me
00:57 wolverian audreyt, oh, do you know, can you use a stub declaration to declare the common signature of a set of subs (multis)? i.e. multi foo (Foo, Bar --> Baz) {...} multi foo ([], $bar) { ... } multi foo (@foo, $bar) { ... }
00:58 aufrank but if you get a lot of traits, it could start being weird to have the "assignment" so far away from the variable
00:58 audreyt wolverian: it's called "proto"
00:58 wolverian oh.
00:58 audreyt proto Baz foo (Foo, Bar)
00:58 * wolverian hunts AES
00:59 audreyt aufrank: just add a \n
00:59 wolverian ah. there isn't an example in S06 so I kind of missed it. thanks, audrey!
00:59 audreyt $a is rw is happy is nice is cheap is cheerful
00:59 audreyt   = 4
00:59 wolverian (oh, can I say [Foo] in a sig to mean List of Foo or so?)
00:59 audreyt np :)
00:59 aufrank man, I love $a!
01:00 audreyt wolverian: current spec has it at
01:00 audreyt Array[returns => Foo]
01:00 wolverian I assume that would actually mean [Foo] # a list of one element, namely, the type Foo
01:00 audreyt or, more succintly
01:00 audreyt Array[Foo]
01:00 wolverian that's fine. thanks.
01:00 audreyt np :)
01:00 * audreyt gets ready for $job
01:01 putter thanks again.  night all &
01:01 aufrank audreyt: any ideas about setting isRequired by default for nameds?
01:01 aufrank bye putter, thank you!
01:01 wolverian weird, protos can declare parameter _names_ too?
01:02 xinming audreyt: will you be free this evening?
01:02 xinming audreyt: I have a problem while using svk, and I have to go out for learning driving now... I'll talk to you this evening.... :-/
01:03 * xinming has to go...
01:04 xinming bye all...
01:04 aufrank bye!
01:10 wolverian does this look sane? I'm experimenting. I'm uncertain about the flattening. it's a port from haskell. http://chronoa.dy.fi/~wolverian/code/poly.p6.html
01:10 audreyt aufrank: you can do that in a production inside the rule
01:10 aufrank ok, consider it punted-on :)
01:11 audreyt subset Poly of Array[Term];
01:11 audreyt is canonical
01:11 audreyt you'll need *@poly in the unpack
01:11 wolverian ah, that works. I said 'subset Poly of Array where Term;' in my head and immediately thought "ah, subset doesn't work here!"
01:12 wolverian mm. true. thanks again
01:12 audreyt otherwise looks kosher
01:12 aufrank is there a way to use the :: synonym for subset in that?
01:12 wolverian it's a bit simpler in haskell due to the differences in lists
01:13 wolverian i.e. a : b instead of [a, *b]
01:13 audreyt well, haskell is a lisp
01:13 wolverian yeah.
01:14 audreyt p6 is more sparse-arrayish
01:14 audreyt in its []
01:14 audreyt which turns out be more useful in practical extraction and reporting :)
01:14 wolverian hm. would it work if I just returned (foo) instead of [foo]? then it wouldn't type as --> Poly though
01:15 wolverian (s,would it work,could I remove the *s,)
01:15 wolverian actually, I don't know what that would mean in type terms.
01:16 wolverian i.e. sub { 1,2 } # what is the return type here?
01:16 audreyt :(Int, Int)
01:16 wolverian ah. a tuple. :)
01:16 audreyt can be viewed as such :)
01:17 audreyt sub { (1,2) }
01:17 audreyt :(Seq[Int])
01:17 audreyt note the parens
01:17 audreyt but for most sigs
01:17 audreyt those two are equivalent
01:18 wolverian hmm. what's Seq?
01:18 audreyt it's what was known as Tuple
01:18 audreyt Seq is like HList I guess ;)
01:18 wolverian ah. so it's not a supertype of Array?
01:18 audreyt well, Seq is immutable
01:18 audreyt and fully evaluated
01:18 wolverian immutability is sort of assumed in this implementation ...
01:18 audreyt i.e. has no Range parts
01:19 audreyt nor iterator/generator parts
01:19 wolverian right
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01:19 audreyt in haskell it's a Data.Sequence
01:19 wolverian maybe I should just leave off the type declarations and trust it's smart enough to infer what I mean. :)
01:19 audreyt yup :)
01:20 wolverian oh. is the return type inferred too?
01:20 wolverian I assume it has to be.
01:20 audreyt it has to be.
01:20 audreyt or at least asserted.
01:21 wolverian now we're back to the problem I have with haskell: I have to comment my code to make it obvious what each sub does.
01:22 aufrank audreyt: with rule multi_sig { <single_sig> [ \: <single_sig> ]* }, how do you capture that all but the last are invs?
01:24 audreyt : { @<single_sig>[*..-2]<is_invocant> >>++ }
01:24 audreyt something like that
01:25 aufrank woah, wicked
01:25 wolverian do bools have ++? :)
01:27 avar ++true++ == false?;)
01:28 avar eh == true
01:28 wolverian ha, spoiled it!
01:29 avar stfu;)
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02:36 svnbot6 r10238 | aufrank++ | added support for multi sigs
02:36 svnbot6 r10238 | aufrank++ | includes tracking invocants (but no implicit $self)
02:36 svnbot6 r10238 | aufrank++ | added explicit tracking for external and internal param names
02:36 svnbot6 r10238 | aufrank++ | better parsing of type parameters
02:36 svnbot6 r10238 | aufrank++ | general rule for parsing single and multi sigs
02:36 svnbot6 r10238 | aufrank++ | lots of questions left-- please check it out!
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03:27 svnbot6 r10239 | aufrank++ | changed match aliasing to follow examples in S05
03:27 svnbot6 r10239 | aufrank++ | miscellaneous code cleanup (comments, formatting)
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04:05 audreyt spinclad: any thoughts on walking the HsJudy array for iterating keys?
04:06 audreyt spinclad: I think the sequence in JudyHSFreeArray; see JudyHS.c
04:08 aufrank audreyt: is http://colorer.sourceforge.net/ something along the lines of the IDE support library you had in mind for SoC?
04:09 aufrank (using p6 and AST instead of c++ and XML)
04:12 ingy hola
04:12 aufrank hi ingy
04:12 ingy hi aufrank
04:12 ingy I read your email
04:13 ingy not sure what you need from me, but I support your efforts in advance :)
04:13 ingy audreyt: is v6-pugs M::C yet?
04:14 aufrank when the idea involved PDOM and kwid, I was hoping for feedback on where to start and what to tackle
04:14 aufrank but I focused in on the idea of a library for IDE support (thanks to audreyt)
04:15 ingy cool
04:15 audreyt ingy: nope.
04:16 * audreyt @ $job
04:16 aufrank oh come on, you're not THAT busy... just have to get jifty running on win32 before the end of the day ;)
04:18 audreyt actually it's done :)
04:18 audreyt writing unit tests and such
04:21 aufrank you're a marvel
04:22 * aufrank looks forward to Capturized pugs
04:25 * audreyt too... for some weeks now
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04:28 aufrank I'll start another *.pg this week if you think there's another language element that's reasonably well-specced and self-contained
04:30 audreyt Capture, for sure?
04:30 audreyt having just parsed
04:30 audreyt :(...)
04:30 audreyt seems reasonable to parse
04:30 audreyt \(...)
04:31 audreyt "fixed" parts: invocant, positional, named
04:31 audreyt "flattened" parts: *$foo
04:31 aufrank captures can appear as arguments when a routine is called, but not as params when a routine is defined, correct?
04:31 audreyt right.
04:31 audreyt Capture is the dual of Signature
04:32 * audreyt wonders how many hits does http://www.apple.com/macbook/ receive each day
04:32 aufrank I hear Tuesday is the day for the macbook
04:32 audreyt I hear that too
04:33 audreyt I further hear it's shipped from Asus's offices, which is like, not far from here :)
04:33 * audreyt ponders a factory raid
04:34 aufrank this is probably too broad a question, but what is the relation between Captures and Match objects?
04:34 aufrank obviously a Capture could hold a Match object, that's not too interesting.  But are Match objects built out of Captures in any way, or can Captures be treated like Match objects?
04:35 aufrank does a capturing match, <( foo )>, create a Capture?
04:36 aufrank (I think that last one is what's got me thinking this way... the fact that we talk about capturing in matching and now we have things called Captures.  It makes me want them to be related)
04:37 audreyt no
04:37 audreyt the <( ... )> merely sets .end and .from
04:38 audreyt Match isa Capture
04:38 audreyt so all Matches are naturally subject to *()
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04:40 audreyt class Match is Capture { has $.from; has $.to }
04:40 audreyt is more like it
04:40 aufrank ok, that makes sense
04:41 audreyt glad to hear that :)
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05:19 gaal Anyone heard of the K programming language? A friend just sent this link:
05:19 gaal # http://www.kuro5hin.org/?op=displ​aystory;sid=2002/11/14/22741/791
05:19 gaal its reduce metaoperater is shorter than Perl 6's!
05:20 gaal and it has scans in one character too(!!)
05:20 wolverian haven't used it myself, but I have seen people use it on perlmonks and elsewhere for real statistical stuff
05:33 spinclad audreyt: yes, it's a straight walk of the tree of JudyL's (forward or backward).  i'll do the API spec first for comment and then the code will be simple (for C).  they will need to return buffer and length; i'm making sure there're no ownership issues on the buffers.
05:34 spinclad i should have something in the new day; bedtime for me here tho
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05:40 svnbot6 r10240 | scw++ | Pugs::Grammar::MiniPerl6
05:40 svnbot6 r10240 | scw++ |  * numbered capture supported
05:40 svnbot6 r10240 | scw++ |  * string concate translated to '++'
05:41 aufrank sleep here too, but probably a Capture.pg tomorrow
05:49 svnbot6 r10241 | aufrank++ | fixed inconsistent token names
06:10 gaal hmm. what do we have for scans?
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06:29 audreyt spinclad: cool! looking forward to it :)
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10:09 Unix_Sendin aqui alguien habla español que me pueda ayudar
10:10 azuroth I'm learning Latin. however, I don't think that will help me understand you :-(
10:11 Unix_Sendin sorry moment please
10:11 * Aragone guesses "is there anyone here who speaks spanish who can help me"
10:11 Aragone although that's based on my 15-year-old-Latin (and French) :(
10:12 azuroth oh, that's n with a tilde-ish thing, not a question mark.
10:12 Unix_Sendin apologize it is that I don't speak English use a translator
10:14 Unix_Sendin left perl6
10:15 Arathorn :|
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12:10 ludan joined perl6
12:10 ludan hi
12:12 svnbot6 r10242 | scw++ | Pugs::Grammar::MiniPerl6: escape charactor in string
12:15 xinming audreyt: ping~~~
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12:27 audreyt xinming: pong?
12:28 audreyt (just off $job, probably going to crash in a few mins)
12:28 * Limbic_Region laffs
12:28 Limbic_Region audreyt - you are incredible with doing that which you set out to do - except actually resting
12:29 audreyt too true.
12:29 xinming audreyt: hmm, there is a svk "bug" IMO. :-)
12:29 audreyt #svk is the place for it :)
12:29 xinming hmm, let me illustrate....
12:29 xinming audreyt: Ok, #svk
12:29 audreyt <- no longer an active svk committer
12:30 xinming hmm, Ok, I'll ask clkao for that bug fix... :-)
12:30 audreyt cool :)
12:30 audreyt which means I actually get to rest, yay
12:31 xinming audreyt: :-)
12:35 ludan audreyt: do you live in the netherlands?
12:37 audreyt no. I currently live in Taipei, Taiwan
12:38 ludan uhm, and why your location is netherlands ? i mean in your irc client :)
12:39 integral feather's a donated perl6 development machine :)
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12:39 ludan \o/
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12:39 ludan ok i've undestood :)
12:41 ludan integral: where i can start to learn some haskell ? this is my first time with a functional language
12:41 ludan s/some/a bit of/
12:44 audreyt ludan: check out the pugs tree
12:44 audreyt and read READTHEM
12:44 audreyt http://svn.openfoundry.org/pugs/READTHEM
12:45 integral there's also stuff on haskell.org, but READTHEM is good.  Previous programming experience, and things like SICP help a lot :)
12:45 ludan ok, many thans
12:45 ludan *thanks
12:47 audreyt also there is my haskell talk
12:47 audreyt http://yapc.g.hatena.ne.jp/​jkondo/20060330/1143700046
12:48 audreyt I wonder if it belongs to READTHEM. hmm.
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12:48 audreyt (slides: http://perlcabal.org/~audreyt/osdc/haskell.xul )
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13:04 gaal ludan: don't be discouraged if one tutorial doesn't work for you right away. I'd start with audreyt's slides (is there a version of that with audio already?) and "Yet Another Haskell Tutorial"
13:04 ludan gaal: ok, thanks :)
13:05 gaal The "Gentle Introduction" is a little terse, but its treatment of everything except monads is pretty good too
13:06 gaal find one you like the style of, and if there's a topic you don't understand, look in another text, or ask here or in #haskell
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13:06 ludan gaal: many thanks for these advices
13:07 gaal sure thing :)
13:31 Daveman Hi gaal :)
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14:07 gaal aloha
14:11 Daveman :)
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16:06 gaal bsb: ping
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17:04 pmurias hi
17:05 FurnaceBoy hi
17:08 pmurias where does Pugs::Compiler::Emit::Parsec live or is it still in planning stage?
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17:20 pmurias gaal: i read the article you posted before and reread it now, but the lack of an open source implementation, is a big obstacle for me in learing/using a language
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17:21 FurnaceBoy is that K ?
17:21 pmurias yes
17:21 FurnaceBoy heh
17:22 FurnaceBoy yeah it looks great, but it's a dealbreaker in anyone's language :-)
17:22 * FurnaceBoy felt the same way
17:22 gaal It doesn't have to be an obstacle for stealing ideas though :-)
17:22 FurnaceBoy :)
17:25 pmurias the latest version of the language is named Q by the way
17:26 gaal was the previous one named C?
17:26 gaal oh no wait, that's taken :)
17:27 * pmurias has to learn C and STL, and dosn't like them one bit
17:29 FurnaceBoy "has to" ?
17:29 FurnaceBoy you've come to the right place
17:29 FurnaceBoy for relief
17:30 gaal C isn't that bad. C++ just pisses me off all the time
17:30 gaal well ok C is bad :)
17:30 gaal but it's not bad for what it does well.
17:31 FurnaceBoy quite.
17:31 FurnaceBoy I suppose pmurias meant C++ since he mentioned STL.
17:33 pmurias well i prepare for an algorithmic competition, and the only library you are allowed to use is the STL
17:34 pmurias i want to use only as much C++ as nessesary to use STL
17:35 pmurias so i don't have to write hashes and linked list myself
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17:37 pmurias practicly it's GNU C++, as one is allowed to use gcc specific extensions
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17:46 pmurias some of other participants are using pascal so C++ isn't bad by comparision
17:46 FurnaceBoy hehe
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17:53 pmurias Introduction to Algorithms, will arive tommorow and i have the Art of Computer Programming, does anyone know other good algorithmic books?
17:55 PerlJam I wonder if it might make a good publicity stunt to have a parrot/perl6 programming contest.
17:57 PerlJam Or even just get SPOJ to accept parrot + pugs solutions
17:57 integral At a conference?    Or a ICFP type contest?
17:58 Arathorn pmurias: there's a big white tome with red leafs on the front which is very good
17:58 * Arathorn looks for it quickly
17:58 FurnaceBoy obfuscated Parrot?
17:58 Arathorn ah, that is Introduction to Algorithms
17:58 PerlJam integral: both
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17:58 Arathorn well, TAoC and Introduction to Algorithms is all I have...
17:59 PerlJam integral: presumably the contest would be run at OScon or something rather than just the usual perl conferences.
17:59 PerlJam I can't guage the bang/buck ratio on this idea though.
17:59 PerlJam s/guage/gauge/
18:02 pmurias PerJam: what is SPOJ?
18:03 PerlJam http://www.spoj.pl/
18:07 pmurias it was the first link i got on google, but couldn't belive it's something polish
18:18 pmurias although there's very heavy emphasis on algorithms in Poland
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18:21 FurnaceBoy East Europeans continually top the harder contests ;-)
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18:33 pmurias i'm personaly only intrested in winning univeristy entrance :)
18:52 q[uri] 2
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19:00 buu Yay!
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19:15 aufrank which yay, buu?
19:20 buu No tha twas a generic yay.
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21:22 cmarcelo hello.. does pugs support the "atomic { }" construction for STM?
21:23 PerlJam cmarcelo: you'd best back up a bit and ask if pugs supports STM and *then* ask what the syntax is  :-)
21:24 PerlJam (I don't have any answers, but I didn't think pugs even did STM properly)
21:25 cmarcelo sorry, I just mention "atomic { }" because I saw one idea about this once... I was meant to ask if it supports STM =)
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21:34 gaal cmarcelo: it used to, unspeccedly and not-well-testedly. But I see it's no longer there, presumably someone took it out after seeing it wasn't working well?
21:39 cmarcelo gaal, tks
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22:58 aufrank hey, just a quick update to any SoC folks:  the deadline for student apps has been extended to 1100 Pacific Daylight Time, 5/9/2006.
22:58 aufrank use the time wisely ;)
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