| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:00 |
TimToady |
I've not had bad luck lately with parrot installs. |
| 00:00 |
TimToady |
in fact, I always install parrot. |
| 00:01 |
PerlJam |
I used to do that until things broke |
| 00:01 |
TimToady |
this is the first time I've been burned by pugs install though... |
| 00:01 |
TimToady |
like I say, my parrot install hasn't broken for a couple months. |
| 00:02 |
TimToady |
but maybe that's because I have my PARROT_PATH set right |
| 00:03 |
TimToady |
actually, as I recall, the problem used to be that pugs was believing the installed parrot over the PARROT_PATH parrot. |
| 00:04 |
svnbot6 |
r10312 | gaal++ | * Touch Test.pm and Prelude.pm so they will be regenerated to |
| 00:04 |
svnbot6 |
r10312 | gaal++ | fit with the recent CompUnit change. The good news is that |
| 00:04 |
svnbot6 |
r10312 | gaal++ | next time when things change the error message can be much better. |
| 00:05 |
gaal |
in fact the next time, the error will be intercepted and the stale file regenned on the fly. Or that's the plan. |
| 00:06 |
gaal |
putter++ # bugging me about versioned bytecode months ago |
| 00:06 |
gaal |
gaal-- # not putting in versioned bytecode months ago |
| 00:07 |
particle_ |
when !~ matches, what does $/ contain? |
| 00:07 |
svnbot6 |
r10313 | Darren_Duncan++ | ext/Relation/ : added new Relation.pm methods restrict() and delete() ; added method aliases [where, grep, delete_where, select, select_all_but] ; added return types to method sig docs |
| 00:07 |
gaal |
eep it'll be dawn in a couple of hours, I should sleep & |
| 00:08 |
TimToady |
particle_: same thing as when ~~ matches. !~ only changes the boolean sense |
| 00:09 |
particle_ |
okay. |
| 00:09 |
TimToady |
just means the Match object shows up in the else instead of the then... |
| 00:15 |
audreyt |
TimToady: ping |
| 00:18 |
audreyt |
TimToady: re f(x=>1) named and f('x'=>1) pair, I like that even more |
| 00:18 |
audreyt |
it follows that f(1=>2) also not named. |
| 00:18 |
audreyt |
TimToady: also, there is a student in SoC who wants to hack MAD->p6, are you willing to mentor him (i.e. evaluate his progress and provide feedback)? |
| 00:19 |
audreyt |
if yes, signup is at http://code.google.com/soc/mentor_home.html |
| 00:19 |
|
justatheory joined perl6 |
| 00:20 |
audreyt |
(it is currently the highest ranked mentorless proposal) |
| 00:23 |
TimToady |
hmm, I'm a lousy mentor... |
| 00:23 |
TimToady |
but maybe I could do that. |
| 00:24 |
TimToady |
I always read SoC as Southern California... |
| 00:25 |
TimToady |
I don't have a google account... |
| 00:26 |
particle_ |
invite on its way |
| 00:26 |
audreyt |
also, google allocs slots by number of distinct mentors |
| 00:27 |
audreyt |
(i.e. mentors that volunteered for proposals) |
| 00:27 |
|
feng123 joined perl6 |
| 00:28 |
|
garth joined perl6 |
| 00:28 |
audreyt |
so it'd be nice to expand the mentor base a bit :) |
| 00:28 |
svnbot6 |
r10314 | fglock++ | PCR - added :ratchet to the benchmark (3.7x faster than plain PCR); t/09-ratchet.t passes 18/23 tests |
| 00:30 |
audreyt |
TimToady: also, the "magical special" flavour of autoquoting works quite well as the indicator of "magical special" named-arg |
| 00:36 |
|
SubStack joined perl6 |
| 00:36 |
TimToady |
okay, I get the feeling you like it. :) |
| 00:36 |
TimToady |
I do too. :) |
| 00:37 |
TimToady |
I take it you're still trying to get used to [,]... |
| 00:37 |
audreyt |
nope, that's fine |
| 00:37 |
audreyt |
it has to be treated specially |
| 00:37 |
audreyt |
just like * did |
| 00:37 |
audreyt |
because of arglist delaying |
| 00:38 |
TimToady |
the one lossage is that [,] can't really trigger a $capture |
| 00:38 |
audreyt |
so I'll just take it as a differently spelled * |
| 00:38 |
TimToady |
but I'm thinking =$capture works maybe |
| 00:38 |
audreyt |
you mean ([,]$capture) |
| 00:38 |
audreyt |
wouldn't work? |
| 00:39 |
TimToady |
if it's just a list, $capture doesn't interpolate. |
| 00:39 |
audreyt |
[,]%hash fails too, right? |
| 00:39 |
audreyt |
(instead of interp'ing to named, it'd take pairs) |
| 00:39 |
TimToady |
Well, %hash makes pairs... |
| 00:39 |
audreyt |
but *%hash worked because it's unary |
| 00:39 |
audreyt |
[,] is listop |
| 00:39 |
TimToady |
right. |
| 00:39 |
audreyt |
and so can't tell %hash apart from $pair |
| 00:40 |
audreyt |
whilst a unary op can. |
| 00:40 |
TimToady |
could just force it. |
| 00:40 |
audreyt |
[,]%hash1, %hash2 |
| 00:41 |
audreyt |
you mean, force all pairs back into named? |
| 00:41 |
audreyt |
or force as in using MMD? |
| 00:41 |
TimToady |
one level's worth, just like * did |
| 00:41 |
audreyt |
so you mean, if you give [,] one arg |
| 00:41 |
audreyt |
then it behaves like old * |
| 00:41 |
audreyt |
if you give it two |
| 00:42 |
audreyt |
does it propagate? |
| 00:42 |
audreyt |
[,] %h1, %h2 |
| 00:42 |
audreyt |
does that make both into nameds? |
| 00:42 |
TimToady |
it's not really a force for %hash1, %hash2 because a reduction is defined syntactically. |
| 00:42 |
TimToady |
yes, to do just one is [,](%h1), %h2 |
| 00:42 |
audreyt |
but not [,] (%h1), %h2 |
| 00:43 |
TimToady |
so each pair is "comma separated" at the top level. |
| 00:43 |
TimToady |
which makes it named |
| 00:43 |
TimToady |
presumably not. |
| 00:43 |
audreyt |
we had *$hash and *%hash do the same thing |
| 00:43 |
TimToady |
as I say, it's just $capture that doesn't naturally continue to work. |
| 00:43 |
audreyt |
persumably we'd need to write [,] %$hash now? |
| 00:43 |
|
FurnaceBoy joined perl6 |
| 00:43 |
TimToady |
presumably. |
| 00:44 |
TimToady |
and =$capture, perhaps |
| 00:44 |
TimToady |
or @$capture, to just get the @ etc. |
| 00:44 |
audreyt |
I'm fine w/ that |
| 00:44 |
TimToady |
[,] $$capture, @$capture, %$capture; |
| 00:45 |
audreyt |
I'm tempted to write *$capture to stand for "whatever caster"" ;) |
| 00:45 |
TimToady |
anyway, it really was seeming more and more like we needed to de-borrow * from Ruby. |
| 00:45 |
audreyt |
but nah. it's a term. |
| 00:45 |
audreyt |
sure |
| 00:46 |
audreyt |
hm. |
| 00:46 |
TimToady |
the deref meme was just wrong for *. now we're consistently globby with it. |
| 00:46 |
audreyt |
my $capture = \( [,] want() ); |
| 00:47 |
audreyt |
my @a := =$capture; |
| 00:47 |
audreyt |
my $b := =$capture; |
| 00:47 |
TimToady |
shades of typeglobs... |
| 00:47 |
audreyt |
surely want() is not evaluated twice? |
| 00:48 |
audreyt |
trying to avoid typeglob shades :) |
| 00:48 |
TimToady |
I would hope it would only evaluate once. |
| 00:48 |
audreyt |
but more importantly, in capture construction, does want() just get the current context even when it's not part of binding? |
| 00:49 |
TimToady |
it's still logically flattened, whether it's lazy or not. |
| 00:50 |
TimToady |
hmm. that's why my --> Dog: conjecture said it's probably better to return an object that decides. |
| 00:52 |
audreyt |
I agree, but that is an argument against builtins that checks want() and do different things |
| 00:52 |
audreyt |
currently: |
| 00:52 |
TimToady |
yes, want is a weird inside out delayed dispatch, or something. |
| 00:53 |
audreyt |
reverse('1', '2'); # '21' on scalar context, ('2', '1') on list |
| 00:53 |
TimToady |
a parallel gather/take like thing |
| 00:53 |
audreyt |
slurp('/etc/passwd'); # whole file on scalar, list of lines on list |
| 00:53 |
TimToady |
if we had a language without side effects, it wouldn't be a problem. |
| 00:53 |
audreyt |
readdir('/etc'); # one entry on scalar, all entries on list |
| 00:53 |
audreyt |
readline(); # ditto |
| 00:54 |
audreyt |
splice(@x, 0, 4); # all spliced on list, but _last_ item on scalar |
| 00:54 |
audreyt |
$str ~~ rx/.../; # positional captures on list, Match object on scalar |
| 00:54 |
audreyt |
that's all, I think |
| 00:54 |
TimToady |
I think want has to be an "observation" in the Copenhagen interpetion |
| 00:55 |
audreyt |
reverse() doesn't involve side effect |
| 00:55 |
TimToady |
interpretation, even |
| 00:55 |
audreyt |
all others does |
| 00:55 |
audreyt |
and hence can't be delayed |
| 00:55 |
audreyt |
splice's side effect is always the same regardless of context |
| 00:56 |
audreyt |
so is poetntially safe |
| 00:56 |
audreyt |
all others are unsafe. |
| 00:56 |
audreyt |
(well, it can be argued that slurp()'s is also the same) |
| 00:56 |
TimToady |
can want know whether to collapse the wavefunction or not? |
| 00:57 |
audreyt |
it can know if it's not-yet-bound |
| 00:57 |
audreyt |
by passing in a Whatever context |
| 00:57 |
audreyt |
but that doesn't help readline() and readdir() |
| 00:57 |
audreyt |
which needs to do different things |
| 00:57 |
audreyt |
and has to do it now |
| 00:57 |
TimToady |
It's like there needs to be a negotiotion. |
| 00:58 |
TimToady |
how lazy do you want me vs how lazy can I be |
| 00:58 |
audreyt |
right |
| 00:58 |
TimToady |
gee, sounds a lot like type inferencing... |
| 00:58 |
audreyt |
it is a special kind of inferencing |
| 00:58 |
audreyt |
return-type inferencing |
| 00:58 |
audreyt |
but I'm wondering if we need all that mechanism, for readdir() and readline() |
| 00:59 |
audreyt |
instead of just saying that List context is just casting whatever returned into a List |
| 00:59 |
audreyt |
and vice versa |
| 00:59 |
audreyt |
which precludes them doing different things |
| 01:00 |
audreyt |
but that only affects <reverse readdir readline splice> |
| 01:00 |
TimToady |
as far as I'm concerned, it could all just fall under the rule "if we don't know, it's list context". |
| 01:02 |
audreyt |
I wonder if |
| 01:02 |
audreyt |
reverse('x', 'y') |
| 01:02 |
audreyt |
can _always_ reverse the list |
| 01:02 |
audreyt |
regarddless of context |
| 01:02 |
audreyt |
and reverse('xy') would always just reverse the string |
| 01:02 |
audreyt |
as it's just "xy".reverse |
| 01:03 |
TimToady |
interesting fallout from the 1-arg rule... |
| 01:03 |
audreyt |
i.e. have it decided by arguments, not by context |
| 01:03 |
TimToady |
reverse(@onearg) |
| 01:04 |
audreyt |
@onearg is an Array |
| 01:04 |
audreyt |
goes to Array.reverse |
| 01:04 |
audreyt |
performs list reverse |
| 01:04 |
TimToady |
so we only get into trouble with reverse([,] @onearg) |
| 01:05 |
audreyt |
it's... not troublesome, I think |
| 01:05 |
TimToady |
I don't plan to lose much sleep over it... |
| 01:05 |
audreyt |
and also even that can be made to work. |
| 01:05 |
audreyt |
because [,] puts it to pos, not inv |
| 01:05 |
audreyt |
it is still a list. |
| 01:05 |
audreyt |
so still list-reversed. |
| 01:06 |
audreyt |
?eval ~(reverse 1,2,3) |
| 01:06 |
|
evalbot_10311 is now known as evalbot_10314 |
| 01:06 |
TimToady |
because foo($x) really means foo([,] $(\$x)) |
| 01:06 |
evalbot_10314 |
"3 2 1" |
| 01:06 |
audreyt |
yes. |
| 01:07 |
audreyt |
foo($x :), to use another notation |
| 01:08 |
TimToady |
what's your opinion of the triangulation metaoperator? |
| 01:08 |
audreyt |
it's... cute |
| 01:08 |
TimToady |
er... |
| 01:09 |
audreyt |
[[+]] 1,2,3 |
| 01:09 |
audreyt |
I wonder if that looks better |
| 01:09 |
TimToady |
I had that first. |
| 01:10 |
audreyt |
ok, how about [(+)] |
| 01:10 |
TimToady |
but...there's something to be said for cute... |
| 01:10 |
audreyt |
just trying to reuse list-producer metaphor instead of backslash-metaphor |
| 01:10 |
TimToady |
looks too much like a reduce on the (+) operator |
| 01:10 |
audreyt |
but it is |
| 01:10 |
audreyt |
a reduce on the (+) operator |
| 01:10 |
audreyt |
just a "special" scan reduce ;) |
| 01:11 |
TimToady |
is (+) a set operator? |
| 01:11 |
audreyt |
oh no... |
| 01:11 |
audreyt |
([+]) 1, 2, 3 |
| 01:11 |
audreyt |
can be made to work, but too yucky |
| 01:11 |
audreyt |
[/+\] |
| 01:11 |
audreyt |
I guess I'll livewith [\+]. |
| 01:11 |
TimToady |
also tried [+]\ and [+\ |
| 01:12 |
audreyt |
if you have a infix:<\+>, well, too bad |
| 01:12 |
TimToady |
also played with |\ briefly. |
| 01:12 |
TimToady |
I like that [\ is assymetrical |
| 01:12 |
audreyt |
nod. |
| 01:12 |
TimToady |
[/+\] would have to start in the middle. :) |
| 01:13 |
TimToady |
yes, but at least I doctored it so that [\+] gives you the normal |
| 01:13 |
svnbot6 |
r10315 | audreyt++ | * Prim.List: [+] 1,2,3 is again fold, not scan. |
| 01:13 |
TimToady |
reduce rather than the scan |
| 01:14 |
audreyt |
so, in sigs |
| 01:14 |
audreyt |
is (*@x) still slurpy? |
| 01:14 |
audreyt |
the syntax only changes on the calling end? |
| 01:14 |
TimToady |
correct. |
| 01:14 |
TimToady |
slurpy is a manifestation of the globby meme |
| 01:15 |
TimToady |
"pattern match a bunch of things here". |
| 01:16 |
TimToady |
and can't be confused with GLOBAL:: because we never declare globals in sigs. |
| 01:29 |
|
Khisanth joined perl6 |
| 01:34 |
|
justatheory joined perl6 |
| 01:37 |
svnbot6 |
r10316 | audreyt++ | * reverse() is now context-insensitive. one-arg form, if the |
| 01:37 |
svnbot6 |
r10316 | audreyt++ | arg is not listish, coerces to string and reverse it; otherwise |
| 01:37 |
svnbot6 |
r10316 | audreyt++ | it's always a list reverse. |
| 01:40 |
|
justatheory joined perl6 |
| 01:41 |
audreyt |
TimToady: S06 still has |
| 01:41 |
audreyt |
doit *$pair,1,2,3; # always a named arg |
| 01:41 |
audreyt |
doit *%pairs,1,2,3; # always named args |
| 01:41 |
audreyt |
I take it's now |
| 01:41 |
audreyt |
[,]%$pair |
| 01:41 |
audreyt |
[,]%pairs |
| 01:41 |
audreyt |
right? |
| 01:42 |
TimToady |
yes |
| 01:43 |
audreyt |
doit [,](%$pair),1,2,3; # always a named arg |
| 01:43 |
audreyt |
doit [,]('when' => 'now'),1,2,3; # always a named arg |
| 01:43 |
audreyt |
doit [,](%(get_pair)),1,2,3; # always a named arg |
| 01:43 |
audreyt |
so that's the correct way |
| 01:44 |
audreyt |
not sure how the second line works. |
| 01:44 |
audreyt |
if it works at all |
| 01:44 |
TimToady |
though in the particular case of 1,2,3 it doesn't matter whether they're in or out |
| 01:44 |
audreyt |
shouldn't it also need a |
| 01:44 |
ludan |
good night |
| 01:44 |
audreyt |
%('when'=>'now') |
| 01:44 |
audreyt |
? |
| 01:44 |
audreyt |
ludan: g'nite |
| 01:45 |
TimToady |
I don't expect a %() would hurt there. |
| 01:45 |
audreyt |
but without %(), I can't see it working |
| 01:45 |
TimToady |
=$pair possibly. |
| 01:45 |
audreyt |
'when'=>'now' is not different from $pair |
| 01:45 |
audreyt |
doit [,] %$pair,1,2,3; # always a named arg |
| 01:45 |
audreyt |
doit [,] %(get_pair()),1,2,3; # always a named arg |
| 01:45 |
audreyt |
doit [,] %('when' => 'now'),1,2,3; # always a named arg |
| 01:45 |
audreyt |
well, eventually [,]= becomes the next * |
| 01:46 |
TimToady |
is that an assignment operator? |
| 01:46 |
audreyt |
heh ;) |
| 01:47 |
audreyt |
oh. did you see my question about |
| 01:47 |
audreyt |
$+PATH = 'x' |
| 01:47 |
TimToady |
there's a nice consistency to the % there. |
| 01:47 |
audreyt |
@+PATH = (1,2,3) ? |
| 01:48 |
TimToady |
It seems like a good plan, except for the fact that different listy env vars are going to use different delimiters... |
| 01:48 |
|
Ymmv joined perl6 |
| 01:48 |
audreyt |
which is why maybe it's not neccessarily a good plan... |
| 01:49 |
audreyt |
(also, mutable $+PATH in general is unspecced) |
| 01:49 |
audreyt |
but I guess it better be mutable |
| 01:49 |
audreyt |
also, not sure what %+PATH even means :) |
| 01:49 |
audreyt |
maybe the ENV hash only declares $+PATH, and @+PATH is a lookup failure. |
| 01:50 |
TimToady |
env @PATH is delim<:> := $+PATH |
| 01:50 |
TimToady |
I dunno. |
| 01:51 |
TimToady |
this reminds me a bit of @array ~~ /pattern/ |
| 01:51 |
TimToady |
$+PATH is parsed ... |
| 01:52 |
audreyt |
dies_ok { f7($bar => 42) }, |
| 01:52 |
audreyt |
"variables cannot be keys of syntactical pairs (1)"; |
| 01:52 |
audreyt |
Juerd: implicitly computed keys are now dead, yay |
| 01:53 |
TimToady |
wouldn't that just be a pair argument? |
| 01:53 |
audreyt |
yup |
| 01:53 |
audreyt |
but f7 was declared as |
| 01:53 |
TimToady |
or does it die because of f7? |
| 01:53 |
TimToady |
got it. |
| 01:53 |
audreyt |
sub f7 (:$bar!) |
| 01:54 |
audreyt |
bbiab |
| 01:54 |
svnbot6 |
r10317 | audreyt++ | * implicitly computed keys in named arguments are now dead: |
| 01:54 |
svnbot6 |
r10317 | audreyt++ | f(a=>42); # named |
| 01:54 |
svnbot6 |
r10317 | audreyt++ | f('a'=>42); # positional |
| 01:54 |
TimToady |
commuting home & |
| 01:56 |
|
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| 02:00 |
|
neoesque joined perl6 |
| 02:12 |
TimToady |
degone |
| 02:14 |
audreyt |
back |
| 02:15 |
audreyt |
so a [,](...) within a capture introduces a "zone" |
| 02:15 |
audreyt |
within which things are parsed differently |
| 02:15 |
audreyt |
using autoconcat rules |
| 02:16 |
TimToady |
by autoconcat you mean A x B x C x D...? |
| 02:16 |
TimToady |
that is, the syntactic rewriting of [x]? |
| 02:17 |
audreyt |
I mean |
| 02:17 |
audreyt |
[,](%a, %b, %c, @d) |
| 02:17 |
audreyt |
explodes the elements one level |
| 02:18 |
audreyt |
and concat them together asif they were written out in toplevel |
| 02:18 |
TimToady |
which is what a reduce is supposed to do... |
| 02:18 |
TimToady |
by syntactic metaphor |
| 02:18 |
audreyt |
yes, but in the case of [,] and [;] |
| 02:18 |
audreyt |
that means more like "reparse" |
| 02:19 |
audreyt |
btw, why doesn't [=] work? |
| 02:19 |
audreyt |
[=] $a, 3; |
| 02:19 |
TimToady |
I don't see why it wouldn't. |
| 02:20 |
audreyt |
I'll add it to S03 then. I dopn't see why it wouldn't, either. |
| 02:20 |
audreyt |
what is the negation of ===? |
| 02:20 |
audreyt |
not ($a === $b) ? |
| 02:20 |
TimToady |
not( $a === $b ) |
| 02:21 |
audreyt |
is [=]() nonsensical of undef? |
| 02:21 |
audreyt |
(same goes for [:=]) |
| 02:21 |
TimToady |
I suppose. |
| 02:22 |
audreyt |
[+=] $a, $b, $c; # sane, then |
| 02:23 |
TimToady |
Then theres [\+=] $a, $b, $c |
| 02:23 |
audreyt |
ok. thanks for getting this normalizationg ([,] [=] [;]) in |
| 02:24 |
audreyt |
before au[frank|dreyt] burned too much time on the */** form... |
| 02:24 |
audreyt |
it's quite a bit easier to explain, the current way. |
| 02:24 |
TimToady |
It just suddenly hit me that we already had * staring us in the face. |
| 02:24 |
audreyt |
easiest to miss when it's too close... |
| 02:24 |
TimToady |
I think so. Damian likes it. |
| 02:24 |
audreyt |
I like it as long as we use [,] %() consistently :) |
| 02:25 |
audreyt |
this actually means [,] cannot introduce new invocants |
| 02:25 |
audreyt |
can't tell between [,] $$x and [,] $x |
| 02:25 |
audreyt |
for some reason, this still doesn't bother me, if we keep =$x. |
| 02:26 |
audreyt |
=$cap, that is |
| 02:26 |
audreyt |
that is, we treat = as almost a sigil |
| 02:26 |
audreyt |
for the special purpose of the [,] zone |
| 02:26 |
audreyt |
it feels a bit icky |
| 02:27 |
TimToady |
'course it was the pain of rewriting all the *@foo to make * "almost a sigil" that drove me over the edge to whacking it... |
| 02:27 |
audreyt |
$$cap.call([,] @$cap, %$cap); |
| 02:27 |
audreyt |
what do you feel about imposing this on users? |
| 02:28 |
audreyt |
call([,] =$cap) # because this takes a special-case of prefix:<=> |
| 02:28 |
TimToady |
as long as there's a way to do it, we can look at slicker ways to do it later. |
| 02:28 |
audreyt |
however, we can workaround it by saying any function calls in [,] zone |
| 02:28 |
audreyt |
gets all its full Capture-return exploded |
| 02:29 |
audreyt |
sub func {return(1: 2, x=>3)}; \([,] func()); |
| 02:29 |
TimToady |
yes. |
| 02:29 |
audreyt |
and then it falls out from that |
| 02:29 |
audreyt |
ok, that feels much clearner :) |
| 02:29 |
TimToady |
do extra invocants turn into positionals or blow up? |
| 02:30 |
audreyt |
yes. |
| 02:30 |
audreyt |
(but I prefer the latter) |
| 02:30 |
audreyt |
but well hm |
| 02:30 |
TimToady |
clearner++ |
| 02:30 |
audreyt |
the latter can't work, can it |
| 02:30 |
audreyt |
has to be the former |
| 02:30 |
audreyt |
the former, then. |
| 02:30 |
audreyt |
extra invs become positionals |
| 02:30 |
audreyt |
and we can use your Capture layout |
| 02:31 |
TimToady |
kinda goes back to the idea that the invocant is the honorary head of the positionals... |
| 02:31 |
audreyt |
where the inv is just a bit |
| 02:31 |
audreyt |
RAID again... |
| 02:31 |
TimToady |
yeah. |
| 02:31 |
audreyt |
ok. can you document those two points? |
| 02:31 |
audreyt |
I feel together they can make [,] fly stably |
| 02:32 |
audreyt |
(capture-explosion and inv-turns-into-pos-under-explosion) |
| 02:32 |
TimToady |
I've been thinking of invocants in Captures as kind of a search strategy, where different types from the type bag |
| 02:32 |
TimToady |
are more specific. |
| 02:32 |
TimToady |
and the head of @ is just the most generic place to look for an invocant. |
| 02:32 |
audreyt |
surprisingly, I parsed that line with no difficulty and even agree with it :) |
| 02:33 |
TimToady |
it took me a while to compose it... |
| 02:33 |
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| 02:33 |
TimToady |
I'm being called to dinner, but I'll whack on it later. |
| 02:33 |
audreyt |
so it was worth that while, I suppose... |
| 02:33 |
audreyt |
yay |
| 02:33 |
audreyt |
TimToady++ |
| 02:33 |
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| 02:34 |
TimToady |
biab & |
| 02:34 |
* audreyt |
goes to find some lunch |
| 02:35 |
dduncan |
audreyt, when you come back, can you give an idea when the earliest possible date/time is that the cut-off for what goes/doesn't into 6.2.12 is? |
| 02:36 |
dduncan |
I'd like to know how much time I have to work with to get certain things in |
| 02:36 |
dduncan |
eg, will it be before or on next tuesday/wednesday? |
| 02:37 |
audreyt |
well, we know it has to happen after parrot release |
| 02:37 |
audreyt |
preferably right-after |
| 02:38 |
audreyt |
which means next wednesday is likely |
| 02:38 |
audreyt |
or thursday |
| 02:38 |
audreyt |
or at latest next weekend |
| 02:38 |
dduncan |
for parrot or pugs or both? |
| 02:38 |
audreyt |
both |
| 02:38 |
audreyt |
parrot 0.4.4 will be relenged this weekend |
| 02:38 |
audreyt |
and released, usually a few days after |
| 02:39 |
audreyt |
bbiab... |
| 02:39 |
dduncan |
thank you |
| 02:40 |
audreyt |
np :) |
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meppl |
gute nacht |
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| 03:45 |
aufrank |
hello! |
| 03:45 |
FurnaceBoy |
ola |
| 03:46 |
aufrank |
is gaal around? |
| 04:02 |
aufrank |
stevan++ |
| 04:02 |
aufrank |
will perl 6 cherry pick the role additions from the newest Moose? |
| 04:02 |
svnbot6 |
r10318 | lwall++ | More long dot tests. |
| 04:02 |
aufrank |
calc |
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| 04:12 |
aufrank |
sorry, that was supposed to be M-x calc =\ |
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| 04:38 |
stevan |
aufrank: I hope Perl 6 will consider some of the role additions I have made |
| 04:38 |
aufrank |
I think excludes sounds really useful |
| 04:38 |
aufrank |
that said, I've never programmed with roles at all, so it's just gut feeling at this point |
| 04:38 |
stevan |
yeah me too, stole that from Fortress :) |
| 04:38 |
aufrank |
I haven't really done the heavy lifting of thinking up use cases ;) |
| 04:39 |
stevan |
well one of the main issues with role composition is that easy things are easy |
| 04:39 |
stevan |
but complex things can get really hairy really fast |
| 04:40 |
stevan |
Moose still hasn't worked out the full details of how attributes and roles interact |
| 04:40 |
stevan |
when i mentioned to the guys who wrote the original Traits paper that we were experimenting with that |
| 04:40 |
stevan |
they said "good luck, let us know how it works out" :) |
| 04:41 |
stevan |
its a potentially very thorny feature |
| 04:41 |
aufrank |
attributes are traits? |
| 04:42 |
aufrank |
sub foo is fancy does dance_moves { ... } |
| 04:42 |
aufrank |
fancy is the attribute, dance_moves is a role? |
| 04:42 |
stevan |
aufrank: no, class-attributes/instance-slots |
| 04:42 |
aufrank |
oh oh |
| 04:43 |
stevan |
role Foo { has $.bar; } role Bar { has $.bar; } role FooBar { does Bar; does Foo; } |
| 04:43 |
stevan |
what should happen there |
| 04:43 |
stevan |
conflict is the most obvious |
| 04:43 |
aufrank |
role foo { has $.a } role bar { has $.a } sub foo does foo does bar { say $.a } |
| 04:44 |
stevan |
right now in Moose, any attr name conflict blows up right away |
| 04:44 |
stevan |
however, this is only because we closely associate instance slot names and attribute names |
| 04:44 |
stevan |
if we decoupled that, it would not be an issue |
| 04:44 |
aufrank |
can you be explicit with $::foo<a> or something> |
| 04:44 |
aufrank |
? |
| 04:44 |
stevan |
exactly |
| 04:45 |
aufrank |
(was I close on syntax?) |
| 04:45 |
stevan |
but it gets messy the more details you add to the use case |
| 04:45 |
stevan |
fairly close I think,.. I have been outta the loop myself :) |
| 04:45 |
aufrank |
S12 is one of the one's that I'm not sure I've ever been all the way through... |
| 04:46 |
stevan |
:) |
| 04:46 |
stevan |
it's a dense one thats for sure |
| 04:49 |
aufrank |
stevan: are instance slot names and attribute names separated in ruby? |
| 04:49 |
aufrank |
one of the two is @@, I think |
| 04:49 |
PerlJam |
stevan: I'm not sure if I got this from perl6 or from the traits paper or what, but isn't part of the compositional nature of roles that once composed, they lose their identity as separate entities? |
| 04:50 |
PerlJam |
(ergo, the "right" thing to do in conflict is to blow up) |
| 04:53 |
stevan |
aufrank: my ruby-fu is fairly weak these days :) |
| 04:53 |
stevan |
aufrank: IIRC, @foo is an instance variable, and @@foo is a class variable |
| 04:53 |
aufrank |
mine too, or I wouldn't be asking ;) |
| 04:53 |
aufrank |
I'm just trying to get a sense of what that decoupling would bring with it |
| 04:54 |
aufrank |
is it just losing some of the $.a and $!b sugar in class declarations? |
| 04:54 |
stevan |
PerlJam: once roles are combined, they become basically just an anon-role which is simply a composite of the roles with all mixing rules and conflict stuff applied |
| 04:55 |
stevan |
aufrank: decoupling attr names from how they are stored just allows the meta-level to get more funky :) |
| 04:55 |
stevan |
I am not sure if there is any true value though |
| 04:56 |
aufrank |
maybe I'll wait til you draw a picture ;) |
| 04:56 |
PerlJam |
Why do I get the feeling that pelr6 needs another special block for composition-time actions? I don't know what you'd call it though, BEGIN, INIT, CHECK, and ... COMP? COMPOSE? hmm |
| 04:57 |
PerlJam |
I guess it would be a special kind of FIRST though |
| 04:58 |
stevan |
aufrank: :) |
| 04:58 |
PerlJam |
yeah, stevan++ for drawing good pictures :) |
| 04:59 |
stevan |
PerlJam: one of the "experiments" in Moose is that of not trying to do everything at compile time |
| 04:59 |
* stevan |
knew those years at Art School didn't go to waste :) |
| 04:59 |
PerlJam |
so moose has lazy conflict resolution? |
| 05:00 |
stevan |
PerlJam: Moose is very lazy |
| 05:01 |
PerlJam |
one of these days I'll have to find time to play with moose. I saw your journal entry just a few minutes ago, but it only percolated up to a musing "neat" and not quite all the way to "I should play with this now" |
| 05:05 |
svnbot6 |
r10319 | aufrank++ | added todo items for [,] and recent clarifications in S06 |
| 05:07 |
aufrank |
alright, sleep time |
| 05:07 |
aufrank |
see you folks around |
| 05:15 |
audreyt |
g'nite |
| 05:15 |
audreyt |
I'll be back in 3~4 hrs |
| 05:15 |
PerlJam |
have a good sleep audreyt |
| 05:17 |
audreyt |
s/sleep/shopping/ actually... |
| 05:17 |
audreyt |
(that g'nite was to aufrank) |
| 05:17 |
audreyt |
& |
| 05:23 |
PerlJam |
oh, well, have a good ... um, down time? rest from hacking? whatever it is that shopping does for you :) |
| 05:24 |
Juerd |
shopping time. |
| 05:25 |
Juerd |
That's the safest way to say it :) |
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| 06:11 |
gaal |
aufrank: you moosed? |
| 06:11 |
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| 06:11 |
gaal |
04:13 < TimToady> reduce rather than the scan |
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| 06:12 |
gaal |
I'm not sure I agree with that |
| 06:12 |
gaal |
reduce is more general than fold or scan |
| 06:12 |
gaal |
morning |
| 06:29 |
azuroth |
I have safari :D |
| 06:39 |
svnbot6 |
r10320 | spinclad++ | - JudyHS: doc: added second, alternative, iterator interface |
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svnbot6 |
r10321 | spinclad++ | - JudyHS: add new calls to Judy.h |
| 08:37 |
gaal |
stevan: re: recent Moose post: In Haskell you can define either == or /= and either other one will be derived if it isn't defined. Maybe Moose should do that? |
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| 08:40 |
audreyt |
rehi |
| 08:41 |
audreyt |
hm, the named-arg caused 100% increase in failed subtests |
| 08:42 |
* audreyt |
triages |
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svnbot6 |
r10322 | spinclad++ | - JudyHS: typo fixes |
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ingy |
hi nnunley |
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| 10:26 |
Kournikoza |
hello, when i changed the timezone on my system, and my perl program is in a loop (and uses localtime()).. how can i know that the timezone has changed, so localtime() can work with it instead of the old timezone? |
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Kournikoza |
help, how can I get the current time in "seconds with %6d microseconds" with strftime? |
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| 10:59 |
Juerd |
You can't |
| 11:00 |
Kournikoza |
help, how can I get the current time in "seconds with %6d microseconds" with strftime? |
| 11:03 |
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Kournikoza |
help, gettimeofday returns the current time, but if i change the timezone, gettimeofday doesnt adapt to the timezone, but the date command shows the change.. what must i do? |
| 11:18 |
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azuroth |
is it a perl6 program, Kournikoza? |
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Kournikoza |
azuroth yes |
| 11:57 |
azuroth |
excellent, I didn't know time stuff was implemented |
| 12:00 |
Kournikoza |
please, i needto know how i get the time in $seconds,$microseconds linked with the curernt time zone.. how can i do that? i tried several things with gmtime etc.. but i don't get the seconds and ms.. |
| 12:01 |
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| 12:01 |
pmurias |
hi |
| 12:02 |
audreyt |
hi |
| 12:03 |
pmurias |
are there any plans for a rule syntax which wouldn't require named rules to be surrounded by <> |
| 12:03 |
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| 12:03 |
pmurias |
? |
| 12:03 |
pmurias |
> |
| 12:04 |
pmurias |
eq. /named_rule1 named_rule2/ instead of /<named_rule1> <named_rul2>/ |
| 12:08 |
audreyt |
how do you diff that from literals? |
| 12:21 |
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| 12:25 |
pmurias |
require them to be quoted(some rules have very little of them eq. Signature.pg or Capture.pg) |
| 12:27 |
pmurias |
or use the perl5 'no strict' style behaviour rules which are not defined return their name |
| 12:29 |
pmurias |
the <> less syntax would require an :modifier |
| 12:36 |
pmurias |
the APL,pheme,and the {Signature,Capture}.pg don't use literals, so it would be a (big) win for those |
| 12:44 |
audreyt |
*nod* |
| 12:46 |
pmurias |
how should be the modifier named than? |
| 12:48 |
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| 12:49 |
audreyt |
not sure |
| 12:49 |
pmurias |
:bare? |
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| 12:59 |
audreyt |
I wonder if we can use standard combinator for them, even... |
| 12:59 |
audreyt |
rule foo { <f1> <f2> } |
| 13:00 |
audreyt |
becomes |
| 13:00 |
audreyt |
sub foo { ; f1; f2; } |
| 13:00 |
audreyt |
probably just an idle thought. |
| 13:00 |
audreyt |
(but I do agree that <>-less syntax is attractive) |
| 13:01 |
audreyt |
<'literal'> just becomes 'literal' |
| 13:07 |
* audreyt |
praises vim8 |
| 13:08 |
pmurias |
what does '...' do in standard rules? |
| 13:08 |
audreyt |
it means two anychar |
| 13:08 |
audreyt |
I mean three |
| 13:08 |
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| 13:10 |
pmurias |
:) the ... were just place holders |
| 13:10 |
pmurias |
i want to know what do '' mean |
| 13:11 |
Gothmog_ |
audreyt: You mean vim7? |
| 13:11 |
audreyt |
yes. |
| 13:11 |
Gothmog_ |
Or did I miss something? |
| 13:11 |
Gothmog_ |
k. :-) |
| 13:11 |
audreyt |
I compensated for that in the "two anychar" below |
| 13:12 |
audreyt |
pmurias: they mean literal ' I think |
| 13:22 |
pmichaud |
right now ' means literal ' |
| 13:23 |
audreyt |
token program { ^ statement_list ?ws [ $ | ?syntax_error ] } |
| 13:23 |
audreyt |
token statement_list { statement [ ?statement_end statement ]* ?statement_end? } |
| 13:23 |
audreyt |
it does look a bit less cluttered |
| 13:25 |
pmichaud |
how do we differentiate ? (non-capture) from ? (**{0..1})? Require that all quantifiers abut the thing the quantify? |
| 13:25 |
pmichaud |
s:2nd/the/they/ |
| 13:26 |
audreyt |
prefix vs postfix? |
| 13:26 |
audreyt |
and yes. |
| 13:27 |
pmichaud |
rule { subrule1?subrule2 } |
| 13:27 |
pmichaud |
hmmmm |
| 13:27 |
audreyt |
not sure if it's going to be a win overall |
| 13:28 |
* audreyt |
recites the "different things should look different" mantra |
| 13:28 |
pmichaud |
I guess one would disambiguate with [...]: rule { [subrule?]subrule2 } or rule { subrule[?subrule2] } |
| 13:28 |
pmurias |
IMHO something else should be used for non-capture instead of ? in the <> less mode |
| 13:28 |
garth |
rule { subrule1 subrule2 } vs. token { abc } vs. regex { abc } -- one more way to differentiate rules from tokens etc. |
| 13:28 |
pmichaud |
except I would think that token should be like rule and less like regex |
| 13:29 |
audreyt |
what pmichaud said. |
| 13:29 |
pmichaud |
i.e., rule { subrule1 subrule2 }, token { subrule1 subrule2 } vs regex { abc } |
| 13:29 |
pmichaud |
pmurias: at one point we had <<...>> as capturing subrule and <...> as non-capturing |
| 13:30 |
pmichaud |
another way to do a non-capturing rule is + ... <subrule> captures, <+subrule> doesn't |
| 13:31 |
pmichaud |
(but that seems to give an odd interpretation to '+') |
| 13:31 |
pmurias |
why is ? more easily explained? |
| 13:32 |
audreyt |
my &f; say f(); |
| 13:32 |
audreyt |
I wonder if this should die. |
| 13:32 |
audreyt |
i.e. is Code more like Array/Hash or is it more like Scalar. |
| 13:33 |
pmichaud |
I've been thinking of it like scalar |
| 13:33 |
pmichaud |
but hadn't thought about it deeply |
| 13:34 |
audreyt |
I think it has something to do whether assigning into &f should work in general |
| 13:34 |
audreyt |
if you can say |
| 13:34 |
audreyt |
&*say = ... |
| 13:34 |
audreyt |
then it should init to undef, sure |
| 13:35 |
audreyt |
but maybe &*say is bound to that name, not assigned into it in the first place |
| 13:36 |
audreyt |
question is, is the default "my &f" a Code, or a Scalar with Code constraint. |
| 13:37 |
audreyt |
Pugs currently has the latter |
| 13:37 |
pmurias |
pmichaud: the same problem occures with + as with ? |
| 13:38 |
pmichaud |
pmurias: I don't disagree; I don't have another answer. :-) |
| 13:39 |
audreyt |
I guess doing it the way perl5 people would expect is probably best |
| 13:40 |
audreyt |
i.e. it is mutable by default, and it should die |
| 13:40 |
audreyt |
when called in uninitialized mode |
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| 13:41 |
audreyt |
?eval my &plus = {$^x+$^y}; &plus .= assuming(x=>1); plus(2) |
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evalbot_10314 is now known as evalbot_10322 |
| 13:41 |
evalbot_10322 |
3 |
| 13:56 |
audreyt |
pmichaud: ping |
| 13:57 |
pmichaud |
poing |
| 13:57 |
audreyt |
pmichaud: did you sign up as SoC mentor? |
| 13:57 |
pmichaud |
yes |
| 13:57 |
audreyt |
have you taken any mentorship slots yet? |
| 13:57 |
pmichaud |
at least I said I'd be one, I don't know that I "signed up" anywhere |
| 13:57 |
audreyt |
oh. you need to do that, like, today |
| 13:57 |
pmichaud |
afaik I don't have any mentorship slots yet |
| 13:58 |
audreyt |
http://code.google.com/soc/mentor_home.html |
| 13:58 |
audreyt |
if you had not |
| 13:58 |
pmichaud |
I didn't know there was a "signup" |
| 13:58 |
audreyt |
there was |
| 13:58 |
audreyt |
and if you didn't, then you can't take up mentorship at all |
| 13:58 |
audreyt |
so please sign up :) |
| 13:58 |
audreyt |
(because I'm trying to get aufrank's application pushed to your plate :)) |
| 13:59 |
audreyt |
(and scw's if you feel that you have extra time, but aufrank's definitely) |
| 13:59 |
pmichaud |
I'm now signed up |
| 13:59 |
pmichaud |
and yes, I have time, or will find the time |
| 14:00 |
audreyt |
yay |
| 14:00 |
pmichaud |
I'd be glad to be working with aufrank and scw |
| 14:00 |
audreyt |
so you have access to the "mentor home" project listing? |
| 14:00 |
audreyt |
or are you "pending approval" from perl.org? |
| 14:00 |
pmichaud |
"pending approval" |
| 14:01 |
audreyt |
particle_: are you the admin, or should I ping Robrt? |
| 14:01 |
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| 14:03 |
audreyt |
nvm. pinged robrt |
| 14:04 |
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| 14:04 |
scw |
:) |
| 14:08 |
aufrank |
hi folks |
| 14:08 |
audreyt |
yo |
| 14:09 |
aufrank |
my ears were burning ;) |
| 14:10 |
audreyt |
:) |
| 14:13 |
* audreyt |
is trying to avoid the undesirable ituation of mentoring ~10 people |
| 14:13 |
svnbot6 |
r10323 | audreyt++ | * Uninitialized VCode is now (conceptually) undef, so this |
| 14:13 |
svnbot6 |
r10323 | audreyt++ | is no longer a parsefail, but a runtime failure: |
| 14:13 |
svnbot6 |
r10323 | audreyt++ | my &f; f 1; |
| 14:13 |
audreyt |
so far quite successful; more than half is delegated away :) |
| 14:16 |
svnbot6 |
r10324 | audreyt++ | * Regen AST.Internals instances to capitalize error messages. |
| 14:19 |
svnbot6 |
r10325 | audreyt++ | * Eval.hs: "yield" should preserve the calling context correctly now. |
| 14:22 |
svnbot6 |
r10326 | audreyt++ | * Pugs.Parser.Operator: uninitialized functions are not |
| 14:22 |
svnbot6 |
r10326 | audreyt++ | relevant to parsing: |
| 14:22 |
svnbot6 |
r10326 | audreyt++ | my &f := -> $x {...}; f 1, 2, 3; # this is still listop |
| 14:25 |
svnbot6 |
r10327 | audreyt++ | * unTODO various passing tests, and take the quotes out of |
| 14:25 |
svnbot6 |
r10327 | audreyt++ | f('x'=>1) now that it has to be written f(x=>1). |
| 14:25 |
clkao |
does pil2js backend work now? |
| 14:27 |
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| 14:27 |
audreyt |
havn't checked recently |
| 14:27 |
audreyt |
will get it to work before release |
| 14:33 |
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| 14:40 |
aufrank |
I'm going to be afk for most of the weekend, I think |
| 14:40 |
aufrank |
heading home to cleveland to watch a basketball game |
| 14:40 |
pmichaud |
have fun |
| 14:40 |
aufrank |
I'll see you folks sunday night or some time monday :) |
| 14:40 |
aufrank |
bye! & |
| 14:55 |
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| 14:58 |
pmurias |
` could be used for non capturing rules |
| 15:04 |
svnbot6 |
r10328 | scw++ | Rule::Perl5::Ratchet: fix emitter to make lexical unnamed subrule works. |
| 15:08 |
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| 15:45 |
gaal |
there are two mentions of &?SUB in S06. Is this correct, or should those be &?ROUTINE ? |
| 15:52 |
TimToady |
gaal: fixed, thanks |
| 15:52 |
ingy |
audreyt: ping |
| 15:54 |
audreyt |
pong |
| 15:54 |
* ingy |
was interviewing someone a couple days ago for a programming position, who didn't really know Perl so much. At the end of the interview he said, "You Perl guys are pretty cool. I was always scared away by those crazy people like ESR and Larry" |
| 15:54 |
audreyt |
but I need to sleep, like, now |
| 15:54 |
gaal |
TimToady: thank you. I'm rereading S06 and things are making sense again :) |
| 15:54 |
ingy |
hi audreyt |
| 15:55 |
ingy |
I have a url for you |
| 15:55 |
audreyt |
ok |
| 15:55 |
ingy |
yaml type tags... |
| 15:55 |
audreyt |
as long as it's not http://localhost/ |
| 15:55 |
audreyt |
I've already got that one |
| 15:55 |
ingy |
http://pyyaml.org/wiki/PerlTagScheme |
| 15:55 |
gaal |
and you can use it whereever you go! |
| 15:55 |
ingy |
funny place for it I know... |
| 15:56 |
ingy |
anyway I promised you a proposal |
| 15:56 |
audreyt |
ok, I got it. |
| 15:56 |
audreyt |
I remember I said "tests" |
| 15:56 |
audreyt |
but a spec is fine |
| 15:56 |
audreyt |
it makes sense only when both YAML.pm and YAML::Syck can support it |
| 15:56 |
ingy |
its not a spec |
| 15:56 |
audreyt |
preferably in the same release |
| 15:56 |
Juerd |
What is "couple days"? Short for "couple of days"? |
| 15:57 |
audreyt |
Juerd: probably |
| 15:57 |
ingy |
it's a draft proposal for you to comment on at this point |
| 15:57 |
audreyt |
why !! not !? |
| 15:57 |
ingy |
it's a trac so just comment on the page |
| 15:58 |
ingy |
!! is more official |
| 15:58 |
audreyt |
got it |
| 15:58 |
audreyt |
ok |
| 15:58 |
ingy |
! can be anything |
| 15:58 |
ingy |
I don't really care what it is in practice, as long as we are in parity |
| 15:58 |
audreyt |
"http://pyyaml.org/wiki/PerlTagScheme" |
| 15:58 |
audreyt |
er |
| 15:59 |
audreyt |
"determined by" |
| 15:59 |
audreyt |
how does Foo::Bar signify its desired layout? |
| 15:59 |
ingy |
and I'm trying to get in parity with the python folks and ruby folks too |
| 15:59 |
audreyt |
probe ->new's layout? |
| 16:00 |
audreyt |
otherwise I think it's sane |
| 16:00 |
audreyt |
you have an idea of when you'll have cycles to put together a draft impl in YAML.pm? |
| 16:00 |
ingy |
using !perl/Foo.Bar implies there is a Foo::Bar class with a from_yaml method |
| 16:01 |
ingy |
or somesuch |
| 16:01 |
audreyt |
not too sure about that |
| 16:01 |
audreyt |
why can't we just bless it? |
| 16:01 |
ingy |
then use !perl/:Foo.Bar |
| 16:02 |
ingy |
or !perl/hash:Foo.Bar |
| 16:02 |
ingy |
which are synonyms |
| 16:02 |
audreyt |
and hash:Foo::Bar is also synonym |
| 16:02 |
audreyt |
I'm not too sure about :: vs . synonymship |
| 16:02 |
audreyt |
either we all normalize to . |
| 16:03 |
audreyt |
or we only normalize to . on the object-handling sigilless way |
| 16:03 |
audreyt |
and preserve :: otherwise |
| 16:03 |
ingy |
Well, for !perl/ tags I don't care... |
| 16:03 |
audreyt |
ok then |
| 16:03 |
ingy |
for !!object:Foo.Bar |
| 16:03 |
audreyt |
in that case, :: is probably better to !perl |
| 16:03 |
audreyt |
too confusing otherwise |
| 16:03 |
audreyt |
!!object I agree. |
| 16:03 |
ingy |
I was just throwing out options |
| 16:03 |
audreyt |
I understand |
| 16:04 |
audreyt |
and I was just about to fall asleep prior to that :) |
| 16:04 |
ingy |
do you like the sigils or long forms for Perl? |
| 16:04 |
ingy |
I don't really want to support both |
| 16:05 |
ingy |
the long forms are nice because the blessing is just an extension |
| 16:05 |
ingy |
of the unblessed forms |
| 16:05 |
ingy |
I think the sigils are too cute |
| 16:05 |
audreyt |
I dislike the sigils |
| 16:05 |
ingy |
cool. gone |
| 16:05 |
audreyt |
the new form should be as distinct as possible |
| 16:05 |
audreyt |
from the old form |
| 16:05 |
audreyt |
we are breaking all compat |
| 16:06 |
audreyt |
so we might as well do it in a more regular and clearner way |
| 16:06 |
ingy |
sigh... |
| 16:06 |
ingy |
yeah |
| 16:06 |
audreyt |
the tone of your "sigh" and "or somesuch" reminds me of TimToady... |
| 16:06 |
ingy |
yes |
| 16:06 |
ingy |
borrowed from him |
| 16:07 |
audreyt |
as we all do :) |
| 16:07 |
ingy |
well not sigh but somesuch and handwaving |
| 16:07 |
audreyt |
ok, I think the current proposal will fly |
| 16:07 |
audreyt |
will take a closer look tomorrow |
| 16:07 |
* ingy |
handwaves audreyt goodnight |
| 16:07 |
* audreyt |
handwaves back |
| 16:07 |
audreyt |
& |
| 16:11 |
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| 16:11 |
scw |
hi, there are some inconsistent in S05, the first and last appearance of 'ratchet' described totally opposite behaviors of :ratchet and ':' |
| 16:15 |
TimToady |
fixed, thanks. |
| 16:15 |
TimToady |
afk & |
| 16:20 |
nothingmuch |
can we have a commit bot svn.perl.org too? |
| 16:21 |
* nothingmuch |
tries to remember who runs svnbot6 |
| 16:24 |
ingy |
hola nadamucho |
| 16:34 |
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| 16:41 |
nothingmuch |
hola ingu-san |
| 16:41 |
* nothingmuch |
freezes |
| 16:42 |
nothingmuch |
i ran out of hot water in the middle of the shower, just after i finished putting on the shampoo |
| 16:42 |
nothingmuch |
worst possible timing |
| 16:44 |
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svnbot6 |
r10329 | scw++ | Pugs::Compiler::Rule: more tests on alternation for ratchet |
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| 18:36 |
stevan |
gaal: I would love for Moose to support a Haskell style Eq, I just need to figure out the details of a requires_either '==' | '!=' |
| 18:37 |
stevan |
for that matter a haskell style Ord would be cool too :) |
| 18:38 |
davidfetter |
hello |
| 18:38 |
davidfetter |
any postgres fans in the house? |
| 18:38 |
davidfetter |
er, any other ones? ;) |
| 18:40 |
* ruoso |
seriously consider reimplementing latex2html with P::C::R |
| 18:40 |
davidfetter |
i'm looking for ppl who can help me figure out whether it makes sense to see about making a PL/Parrot |
| 18:41 |
ruoso |
davidfetter, it would be at least impressive |
| 18:42 |
davidfetter |
ruoso, i'm pretty much of a n00b as far as VMs and language bindings go. does it even make sense to talk about such a thing? |
| 18:43 |
ruoso |
sure it does... |
| 18:43 |
ruoso |
parrot is currently embedable in perl 5 |
| 18:44 |
* ruoso |
wonders if "embedable" is a valid word.... |
| 18:44 |
davidfetter |
so what's a 50,000-foot view of how such a thing might work? |
| 18:44 |
davidfetter |
i.e. would parrot have some kind of extension for calling SPI? |
| 18:45 |
ruoso |
link to libparrot and call parrot bytecode... |
| 18:45 |
davidfetter |
would it be some kind of off-to-the-side VM like PL/J ? |
| 18:45 |
davidfetter |
does parrot have a "safe mode" the way perl does? |
| 18:45 |
davidfetter |
as in "can't open files or pipes?" |
| 18:45 |
ruoso |
if not, it certainly should... |
| 18:46 |
leo |
davidfetter: not yet |
| 18:46 |
davidfetter |
ok, so PL/ParrotU 1st, then |
| 18:50 |
davidfetter |
ruoso, when you say "link to libparrot," what do you mean? |
| 18:51 |
ruoso |
davidfetter, the same as link to libperl |
| 18:51 |
davidfetter |
hrm. |
| 18:51 |
ruoso |
libparrot provides an interface to the vm |
| 18:51 |
* davidfetter |
goes off to dig into just how PL/Perl(U) is done |
| 18:51 |
ruoso |
where you can execute code... |
| 19:07 |
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| 19:29 |
ingy |
audreyt: I rewrote http://pyyaml.org/wiki/PerlTagScheme (please review and comment there) |
| 19:43 |
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| 19:43 |
pmurias |
hi ruoso! |
| 19:43 |
ruoso |
hi |
| 19:44 |
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| 19:45 |
* ruoso |
fighting with latex2html |
| 19:53 |
davidfetter |
how about going through pdf 1st? |
| 19:54 |
ruoso |
davidfetter, it messes with footnotes |
| 19:55 |
ruoso |
and semantic information |
| 19:55 |
ruoso |
but I finally understood how to extend latex2html to support a new document syle |
| 19:55 |
ruoso |
s/syle/style/ |
| 19:56 |
ruoso |
it's still not exactly as I wanted, but it's acceptable already... |
| 20:01 |
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| 20:02 |
pmurias |
davidfetter: any problems with the parrot part of the embbeding? |
| 20:03 |
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| 20:03 |
* ruoso |
hates when he hits ctrl+alt+backspace by accident... |
| 20:07 |
pmurias |
i hit mostly caps-lock by accident |
| 20:08 |
ruoso |
the problem is that ctrl+alt+arrows switches desktops |
| 20:08 |
ruoso |
so if I press backspace too quickly after switching desktops I end killing the X server |
| 20:10 |
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| 20:12 |
davidfetter |
pmurias, i'm just not qulified to do any of it :/ |
| 20:13 |
davidfetter |
pmurias, so i'm trolling for ppl who are at least qualified to figure out whether it's possible :) |
| 20:13 |
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| 20:18 |
Khisanth |
ruoso: you could just disable that |
| 20:18 |
pmurias |
i'm not sure about the sql part, but the parrot embbeding part is not a big hassle |
| 20:19 |
pmurias |
what i failed to do for Parrot::Inline was to write the nessary typemaps |
| 20:24 |
ruoso |
Khisanth, I know... but eventually I need it... |
| 20:24 |
pmurias |
good night |
| 20:32 |
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| 21:08 |
PerlJam |
Wow. I asked one year ago if the DBDI list was still alive and the answer was "yes, and we'll start producing something soonish" but there hasn't been any traffic since. |
| 21:10 |
PerlJam |
and when I asked it had been silent for about a year already. |
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svnbot6 |
r10330 | Darren_Duncan++ | ext/Relation/ : added new Relation.pm methods extend() and map() ; other small changes |
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svnbot6 |
r10331 | Darren_Duncan++ | ext/Relation/ : removed method delete() and its alias delete_where() ; added new methods union(), exclusion(), intersection(), difference() and their aliases plus(), disjoint_union(), d_union(), symmetric_difference(), intersect(), minus(), except() |
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