Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2006-05-24

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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04:22 unobe hi everyone
04:23 unobe i finally got pugs built with readline 5.1 on os x, and it seems to run smoothly even in interactive mode
04:23 unobe but during the build, I got two build errors, both the same but on different files: "Build failed: 2816 at util/build_pugs.pl line 96."
04:24 unobe I searched the archives for #perl6 and noticed that this issue has been discussed before
04:25 unobe the reason why I bring it up again is because has_ghc_package('readline') in Makefile.PL, or the subsequent test on the same line, wasn't properly discovering that I had readline support for ghc
04:27 unobe I ended up just copying and pasting "$ghc_flags .= ' -DPUGS_HAVE_READLINE '; # -package readline';" so that it's in the corresponding else {} block of Makefile.PL
04:28 unobe has anyone else tried building pugs with readline support recently, or is there something else that is faulty with having readline built-in that I don't know about?
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07:24 scw Hurray~ SoC accepted!
07:24 rgs woot
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09:42 svnbot6 r10410 | scw++ | Pugs::Compiler::Rule
09:42 svnbot6 r10410 | scw++ |  * update compile_p6grammar.pl to work with :ratchet :sigspace
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09:54 clkao scw: t/basic....Not a CODE reference at t/basic.t line 8.
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10:07 clkao scw: btw, it's really fast now.  can you see if we can compile the signature ruiles by aufrank?
10:07 clkao (when you have time)
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12:22 svnbot6 r10411 | szabgab++ | test slurp in list context
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12:24 cognominal svk-- # agacant ces numeros de revisions differents en local et en remote
12:24 cognominal oops
12:24 cognominal ETOOMANYOPENCHANNELS
12:25 szbalint Happened with me too yesterday. :)
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12:37 svnbot6 r10412 | szabgab++ | more tests for mixed_multi_dimensional data structures
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12:49 gabor529 good afternoon
12:50 gabor529 how can I use getc on STDIN ?
12:51 theorbtwo In perl 6?
12:54 integral $*IN.getc?
12:54 integral (but what does getc get?  a codepoint?  multiple codepoints (eg. combining chars)?)
12:54 cognominal I have trouble to get used to these new names for global variables
12:55 integral cognominal: pronounce the * as STD?
12:55 cognominal good mnemonic indeed
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13:11 gabor529 integral: thanks
13:11 integral np
13:13 gabor529 can I somehow trun off the automatic echoin on the screen while typing on command line?
13:13 gabor529 s/command line/*IN/
13:14 gabor529 like what one should do while accepting a password on STDIN
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13:15 integral see perldoc -q password for perl5
13:15 integral that covers what to do with stty(1),  just do the same :)
13:15 integral (or write Term::readKey for perl6 ;-)
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13:31 particle_ ?eval say abs -3.3;
13:31 evalbot_10383 OUTPUT[3.3 ] Bool::True
13:32 particle_ i'm reading S29 and implementing builtins
13:32 particle_ it seems some math ops are implemented in Math::Basic, and / or Num
13:33 particle_ are they available in the root namespace as well? (imported by default or something?)
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13:58 svnbot6 r10414 | fglock++ | Pugs::Compiler::Rule - CPAN version 0.04
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14:01 clkao fglock: you know miniperl6 is failing tests with new pcr?
14:01 clkao cognominal: what happened to svk?
14:02 cognominal nothing, I just happen to dislike message with remote revision numbers...
14:03 cognominal this is a minor grief :)
14:09 gabor529 is there a way to list all the available functions of P6 from within P6 ?
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14:11 PerlJam There will be.  I'm not sure if it's implemented anywhere though (or even specced fully)
14:14 fglock clkao: looking
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14:23 Juerd gabor529: When the time comes that you're actually going to do this, it helps to have a clear definition of "function".
14:25 svnbot6 r10415 | fglock++ | compile_p6grammar.pl - added "use Pugs::Runtime::Match::Ratchet;"
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14:29 fglock clkao: I think it should be using 'token' instead of 'rule'
14:30 svnbot6 r10416 | szabgab++ | Very simple shell
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14:31 gabor529 Juerd: I would need that list for the shell toy I just committed in my other self
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14:54 svnbot6 r10417 | fglock++ | compile_p6grammar.pl - changed switches to { s => 0, ratchet => 0 } in order
14:54 svnbot6 r10417 | fglock++ | to keep MiniPerl6.grammar running. The compilation of MiniPerl6.grammar
14:54 svnbot6 r10417 | fglock++ | needs further debugging.
14:55 clkao oh no! is it going to be slow like hell again
14:55 clkao well it's actually still fast
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14:56 fglock clkao: grammars are hard to debug :(
14:57 Kattana They are :(
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14:59 Limbic_Region fglock - what are you trying to say?  (freedom of speech)-- ?
15:00 fglock uh? :)
15:00 Limbic_Region constrained simple grammars are easier to debug so let's just not give anyone any freedom to make our lives easier
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15:01 fglock no, it's just that it takes some time to get it right
15:01 Limbic_Region sorry, my humor probably is a bit off today - (working inside government bs)--
15:01 Limbic_Region I didn't mean to imply that you were suggesting simplification
15:02 fglock so sometimes one have to make a temporary hack to keep things working until they are fixed for real
15:02 fglock np
15:15 svnbot6 r10419 | szabgab++ | examples/shell.p6 - improved tab completition
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15:27 gabor529 if eval "command" fails, where can I get the error message (what was $@ in P5) ?
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15:39 scw clkao: since the :sigspace is default on now
15:39 scw clkao: I fixed compile_p6grammar.pl this afternoon and will fix MiniPerl6.grammar when I have time
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17:00 * particle_ notes that the Math::Trig section of S29  mentions a :$base adverb, which should probably read :base
17:01 particle_ does this syntax look funny?
17:01 particle_ our Num multi Num::func ( Num  $x            : :$base = 'radians' )
17:01 particle_ our Num multi Math::Trig::func ( Num $x, :$base = 'radians' )
17:05 particle_ fixed in S29.
17:05 svnbot6 r10420 | particle++ | [S29]: s/\$base/base/g in Math::Trig::func definitions
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17:28 fglock scw: you can use 'token' instead of 'rule' - token doesn't default to :sigspace (token needs to be implemented in compile_p6grammar.pl)
17:56 svnbot6 r10421 | particle++ | [S29]: revert Math::Trig::func definitions
17:56 svnbot6 r10421 | particle++ | these were correct; my understanding of the syntax was incomplete.
17:56 svnbot6 r10421 | particle++ | :$base expands to :base<$base>
17:56 svnbot6 r10421 | particle++ | that's only good when your variable is actually named $base,
17:56 svnbot6 r10421 | particle++ | but it's a complaint for another synopsis
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19:14 szbalint hey aufrank!
19:15 szbalint How did your SoC application go? :)
19:18 aufrank` no good for me
19:18 aufrank` how bout you?
19:18 * aufrank` wishes the full list were posted so he could congratulate the lucky ones
19:19 * particle_ wonders if any list has been posted
19:19 szbalint I got accepted.
19:19 szbalint Not yet afaik.
19:19 szbalint Sorry to hear that aufrank :\
19:19 PerlJam szbalint: what did you apply to do?
19:20 szbalint Re(designing|writing) DBI in Perl 6.
19:20 aufrank` is now known as aufrank
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19:21 aufrank szbalint: good luck with it :)
19:21 szbalint thanks!
19:21 aufrank where are you at school?
19:22 szbalint ELTE (Eotvos Lorand Tudomanyegyetem), Budapest
19:24 aufrank I may have seen a talk recently by someone from your institution, I think
19:24 szbalint (Eotvos Lorand University of Natural Sciences is the english name)
19:24 szbalint oh really? Nice :)
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19:25 PerlJam szbalint++ that's a really good project to work on.
19:26 szbalint I agree. Also, Tim Bunce seems to be a really nice person to work with!
19:27 szbalint TPF only has 5 slots this year unfortunately so I bet a lot of good projects didn't get approved...
19:27 leo szbalint: looks like you got #5 slot ;)
19:27 particle_ wow, only 5? i guess soc got so popular, there look like many more sponsors this year
19:28 * aufrank hopes fglock got approved
19:29 leo aufrank: doesn't seem so, sorry - but there are no official new yet
19:29 leo news even
19:30 szbalint leo: really? :)
19:31 aufrank szbalint: yeah, turns out he was from there.  Mate Langyel.  He's at the gatsby computational neuroscience unit at University College London now.
19:31 aufrank he did your institution proud-- it was a good talk :)
19:31 szbalint cool :)
19:31 leo I presume aufrank got a google mail and szbalint didn't
19:32 szbalint I did get a congratulations mail, but unfortunately there was an error at Google
19:32 szbalint they sent out 1800 "you're accepted" emails
19:32 integral google-- # webapps aren't their speciality ...
19:32 szbalint and had to retract some of them later.
19:32 szbalint well, most of them.
19:33 aufrank I got an "thanks but no thanks" email from google, yeah
19:33 szbalint So the only way to know for sure is to check the site.
19:33 fglock aufrank: I got that one too
19:33 leo nope - they didn't update organization sites yet :-(
19:34 integral anyone know who got the other tpf slots? I've spotted two others (and am doing POE myself)
19:34 leo fglock was #7, aufrank #8 in last ranking I can see
19:34 aufrank integral++ #congrats!
19:35 aufrank so szbalint is doing DBI in P6, and integral is doing POE
19:35 aufrank who's the third you've spotted integral?
19:35 * integral goes to look up his logs
19:36 integral someone called "comet".  saw them over on slashnet, but didn't get what they were doing
19:37 leo I don't hink that POE is in the accepted part of the list
19:37 szbalint yeah well I told you I'm not from the .uk integral :)
19:37 integral oh!
19:37 integral leo: o_O
19:37 szbalint so you counted me twice :P
19:38 leo # this is all not official yet - ignore me - just romors
19:38 aufrank leo is tell tales out of school!
19:38 aufrank s/tell/telling/
19:40 aufrank leo (or anyone):  any chance we'll get to see the comments that TPF people made on our applications?
19:41 aufrank it'd be nice to see the criticism
19:42 PerlJam "Dude...this proposal *sucks*!"  :-)
19:42 leo I don't know how anything about TPF policy WRT comments
19:42 aufrank well, the constructive kind, anyway ;)
19:42 szbalint sorry integral for causing confusion but I just like to keep these two sides separate :)
19:43 integral np,  I haven't plenty of nicks too ;-)
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19:45 integral just got someone called "OldeFortran" over on slashnet saying they're TPF SoC accepted
19:49 aufrank fortran on parrot?  ;)
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19:50 integral the MAD round tripping task they say
19:50 aufrank well tell 'em to get in here ;)
19:50 szbalint :P
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19:56 szabgab szbalint: congrat for the Soc!
19:56 szbalint thanks :)
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19:57 aufrank man, I assumed that was another one of your nicks, szbalint
19:57 aufrank you're blowing my mind here
19:57 aufrank unless you're just congratulating yourself on behalf of an alter ego
19:57 szbalint lol
19:57 aufrank in which case, get a room ;)
19:57 szbalint aufrank: haha! payback for audreyt - aufrank :)
19:58 aufrank :P
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19:59 szbalint For the record I don't have many nicks. :)
19:59 szabgab aufrank: no, it is not szbalint
19:59 szabgab but we use the same hungarian notation
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20:00 aufrank he does study in Budapest, I guess
20:01 leo hi Gabor btw ;)
20:01 szabgab hi leo
20:01 leo how goes?
20:02 szabgab lots of work, no time for HPW organization nor even to go to YAPCs, what about you ?
20:02 leo no HPW this year?
20:03 szabgab I won't help in it for sure, Andras might do something but I think he is full of work too
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20:03 szabgab szbalint: will you organize it ?
20:03 leo I'm fine (again) - after some teeth troubles
20:04 ingy ho-la
20:04 szbalint szabgab: well, I think there is interest to do so on the mailinglist, so I could certainly do something with András
20:05 szabgab BTW can I somehow create a scope (for variables) that remains intact between two eval calls ?
20:05 aufrank hey ingy
20:05 szabgab so eval "my $x = 42"; eval "say $x" will work ?
20:05 aufrank you back stateside yet?
20:06 szabgab szbalint: yeah, some people started to talk about it, I won't have time to do anything this year
20:06 ingy hi aufrank
20:07 szbalint szabgab: I think András was full time working before too. I'll help out :)
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20:12 fglock szabgab: { my $x; eval "\$x = 42"; eval "say \$x" }
20:13 szabgab fglock: yes, but I am trying to write a shell, so I don't know the variable names upfront
20:15 szabgab examples/shell.p6 can now accept commands and execute but it will forget my variables :-( not a good approach
20:16 fglock you should somehow be able to do this using continuations
20:17 szabgab fglock: ah, now I might have a reason to learn them, good, thanks
20:18 fglock you can call your prompt from inside the eval - so that the next eval will be in scope: eval "\$x = 42;" ~ " user_prompt();"
20:19 fglock so the next eval will be executed from "inside" the previous one
20:20 szabgab that would mean to open up man many evals, rioght ?
20:21 szabgab ... many, many evals, right ?
20:21 fglock yes
20:22 szabgab I can try that, though I don't really like the solution
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20:22 ludan hi
20:25 aufrank hello
20:33 fglock szabgab: I've got a working version in P5 :)
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20:34 pasteling "fglock" at 200.17.89.80 pasted "perl shell" (5 lines, 123B) at http://sial.org/pbot/17328
20:36 pasteling "fglock" at 200.17.89.80 pasted "perl shell - simplified" (3 lines, 91B) at http://sial.org/pbot/17329
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20:38 ruoso fglock, doesn't this create a stack for the return value of the outer-most eval?
20:38 Limbic_Region anyone know how well recent Parrot compiles on Win32 using mingw?
20:39 particle_ l_r, i believe it compiles fine.
20:39 * Limbic_Region got a shiny new machine today and is once again able to build Pugs at work
20:39 Limbic_Region cool - if things go well, I can even link against Parrot then
20:39 particle_ l_r: there were some mingw patches for win a little while ago
20:39 particle_ so somebody's watching that space
20:40 Limbic_Region cool beaners - moldy chicken
20:40 * Limbic_Region is up to 2.8ghz and 512mb of memory
20:40 * particle_ runs off for some errands &
20:40 aufrank fancy, Limbic_Region
20:41 fglock ruoso: yes, but it is necessary to keep 'my' working between evals
20:42 szabgab fglock: nice, now let me try to somehow put it in my code
20:43 ruoso fglock++
20:44 ruoso heh...
20:44 * ruoso just run in the shell: my $a = 1; my $b = 2; oops, the shell is out...
20:45 szabgab my $b = '; print ">> "; my $s = =$*IN; eval $s ~ $b; '; eval $b;
20:45 szabgab this seem to be working in pugs
20:48 aufrank neat :)
20:48 fglock ruoso: there seems to be a problem specific to '$b' in Perl 5
20:49 ruoso heh
20:49 fglock print $@ shows 'Can't use string ("1") as a symbol ref while "strict refs" in use' - but this only happens with '$b'
20:50 ruoso fglock, duh... you do eval '$b'... but $b now is "1" and no more "print ">>"; ..."
20:50 fglock oh, it's because $b is the main program :)
20:50 fglock heh
20:50 ruoso heh
20:50 ruoso fglock++
20:50 ruoso heh
20:54 szabgab great, I could add it to examples/shell.p6 as well, need to clean it up a bit
20:55 fglock szabgab: cool
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21:04 svnbot6 r10422 | szabgab++ | examples/shell.p6 - recoursive eval to keep variable scope fglock++
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21:41 notThis Has anyone looked at converting Java interface definitions into (roughly) corresponding Perl6?
21:44 aufrank I don't know Java
21:44 aufrank but when it comes up it's generally in the form of "Roles could be used like Java interfaces, and other ways too"
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