Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2006-06-13

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

| Channels | #perl6 index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary

All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:23 jsiracusa joined perl6
00:27 b00t joined perl6
00:46 FurnaceBoy_ is now known as FB|afk
00:50 dduncan joined perl6
00:51 hikozaemon joined perl6
00:51 oylenshpeegul joined perl6
00:53 rashakil__ left perl6
01:12 weinig|work is now known as weinig
01:15 oylenshpeegul left perl6
01:42 amnesiac joined perl6
01:44 Shabble joined perl6
01:48 amnesiac joined perl6
01:59 sproingie joined perl6
02:06 sproingie joined perl6
02:19 lambdabot joined perl6
02:25 svnbot6 r10676 | audreyt++ | * assign.t: The Synopsis now no longer guarantee list context for:
02:25 svnbot6 r10676 | audreyt++ |     ($a) = W, W, W;
02:25 svnbot6 r10676 | audreyt++ |   so we fix it as:
02:25 svnbot6 r10676 | audreyt++ |     ($a,) = W, W, W;
02:25 svnbot6 r10676 | audreyt++ |   and indeed that works with Pugs.
02:27 jsiracusa joined perl6
02:42 lambdabot joined perl6
02:53 weinig is now known as weinig|sleep
03:26 cmarcelo joined perl6
03:26 cmarcelo audreyt: ping?
03:47 rzoz joined perl6
04:10 cmarcelo left perl6
04:17 QtPlatypus What does it take to wrangle an account on feather?
04:29 justatheory joined perl6
04:40 audreyt QtPlatypus: write Juerd at perl6 dot nl
04:41 audreyt with your desired nick, ssh pubkey, and realname
04:41 * audreyt is still packing... bbiab
05:03 unobe joined perl6
05:05 cmarcelo joined perl6
05:15 unobe make test results on darwin/ppc (embedded parrot):
05:15 unobe Failed Test                       Stat Wstat Total Fail  Failed  List of Failed
05:15 unobe ----------------------------------------​---------------------------------------
05:15 unobe t/oo/proxy.t                                    18    6  33.33%  4 6 9 13 15 18
05:15 unobe t/pugsrun/06-dash-help.t           254 65024     8   12 150.00%  3-8
05:15 unobe t/pugsrun/06-dash-version.t        254 65024     8   10 125.00%  4-8
05:15 unobe t/pugsrun/07-dash-uppercase-v.t      0    10    59   72 122.03%  24-59
05:15 unobe t/pugsrun/09-dash-uppercase-c.t      0    10    84  140 166.67%  15-84
05:15 unobe t/pugsrun/11-safemode.t            254 65024     6    8 133.33%  3-6
05:15 unobe t/pugsrun/12-script-args.t           0    11    10    8  80.00%  7-10
05:15 unobe t/rules/from_perl6_rules/inline.t                2    1  50.00%  1
05:15 unobe t/rules/from_perl6_rules/named_ca               26    3  11.54%  21-23
05:15 unobe t/rules/from_perl6_rules/stdrules              207    4   1.93%  12-13 15-16
05:15 unobe 942 subtests skipped.
05:16 unobe eww...that didn't come out nice...i'll nopaste
05:17 pasteling "unobe" at 66.91.225.25 pasted "make test results on darwin/ppc (embedded parrot)" (14 lines, 1K) at http://sial.org/pbot/17705
05:17 lambdabot The title of that page is "Paste #17705 from "unobe" at 66.91.225.25"
05:19 unobe dduncan: from my run, it looks like a good chunk of t/pugsrun/07-dash-uppercase-v.t is failing
05:20 unobe can anybody give advice on why I should/shouldn't build with parrot embedded?
05:21 audreyt hi
05:22 audreyt looks indeed like embparrot fails
05:22 audreyt embparrot gives you the ability to evaluate raw PIR code
05:22 unobe ok
05:22 audreyt but otherwise nothing much is gained
05:22 cmarcelo audreyt: busy?
05:23 unobe oh, okay
05:23 audreyt it's there mostly as a prof of concept
05:23 audreyt cmarcelo: moderately busy. just finished packing; going to airport in ~2hr
05:24 unobe so if i build pugs without embedded parrot, does pugs need more than libparrot.dylib (I think that is all it needed with parrot embedded)
05:24 unobe ?
05:24 audreyt cmarcelo: what's up?
05:25 audreyt unobe: if you build it without embparrot then we need bin/parrot in path
05:25 audreyt to run rules
05:25 audreyt but that's not mandatory
05:25 unobe ah, okay
05:25 cmarcelo audreyt: (i'll ask, but is ok to "postpone") i "patched" Pugs.Prim and Pugs.Prim.Yaml to use BitSet instead of IntSet.... how's a good way to measure the differences (besides make smoke).. as I understand the difference isn't going to be much, but anyway...
05:26 cmarcelo audreyt: I didnt know how Implicit params stuff worked, so did a hack that maybe wrong, but compiles AND the compiled pugs work... =o)
05:26 unobe so if bin/parrot is in the path, then PGE will be used?
05:28 audreyt unobe: yes
05:28 audreyt cmarcelo: uh, I don't know, try this
05:29 audreyt my @a = (@a => @a => @a => @a); @a.perl for 1..1000
05:29 audreyt or something a bit more complex
05:29 audreyt and see if wallclock hanges
05:30 audreyt changes
05:30 cmarcelo what does this "perl" operator do?
05:32 audreyt it does what Data::Dumper::Dumper did.
05:33 unobe if I get an error like "*** Cannot parse PGE: a\n*** Error: does not exist\n" when evaluating: "a" ~~ /a/
05:33 unobe does that mean I don't have parrot installed properly?
05:34 audreyt yeah ,it means it cannot find parrot in path
05:34 audreyt you can also set env PARROT_PATH
05:39 unobe thanks audreyt. I don't have the parrot source built on the computer (just copied the parrot binaries over),
05:40 unobe so i'll download the source and build again, keeping PARROT_PATH pointed to the new directory
05:40 unobe where i'll rebuild parrot
05:41 audreyt k
05:42 unobe i just thought that pugs needed the binaries for parrot, and that was it, but it looks like i don't have the component of parrot that pugs needs to make that happen
05:54 cmarcelo audreyt: not very significative change (pugs-local wins by 0.2s).. some inconsistencies (N=30000 pugs wins by 0.130s, N=40000 local-pugs wins by 0.330s).. i feel that all this differences are inside the error margin.. =P
05:55 audreyt oh well :)
05:55 audreyt JL and JHS are by far more interesting (And widely used) anyway
05:56 audreyt still, nopaste your patch?
05:56 audreyt it'd be interesting to redefine IHash to JudyHS
05:56 cmarcelo i'm "adding complexity" to see if things change.. =o)
05:56 audreyt and rewrite its chunk in src/Pugs/Types/Hash.hs
05:58 cmarcelo well. differences become more "dramatic" when @a definition is more complex...
06:00 audreyt oh good good
06:00 audreyt thinking about it in the simple case it's always a hit
06:00 audreyt never a miss
06:00 audreyt so it's like best case
06:01 pasteling "cmarcelo" at 200.232.236.25 pasted "Judy BitSet on Pugs Prim, take 1" (105 lines, 3.7K) at http://sial.org/pbot/17706
06:01 lambdabot The title of that page is "Paste #17706 from "cmarcelo" at 200.232.236.25"
06:01 audreyt so it's dramatic in the good or bad sense?
06:01 cmarcelo good =)
06:01 cmarcelo pugs-local wins by a better margin..
06:02 cmarcelo best case => makes sense..
06:02 audreyt ooh. how much?
06:02 cmarcelo audreyt: that seen <- .... and then let ?seen = seen is right?
06:03 audreyt sure, correct
06:04 cmarcelo correct but ugly =(.. implicit params can only be "binded" with lets?
06:05 audreyt yes, though in this case pasing it around explicitly maymakemoresense
06:05 audreyt but will compile to the same code
06:05 audreyt so don't bother...
06:07 cmarcelo ok. numbers: your @a, N=10000, pugs-local wins by 0.04s ... my @a, N=10000, pugs-local wins by 0.3s
06:07 cmarcelo my @a = (@a => @a => @a => @a => @a => @a => @a => "eu" => "222" => @a => "i" => "ego" => 32178321 => @a => "eu" => @a)
06:08 cmarcelo (i really dont know what this mean at all hehe)
06:08 audreyt how many s in total?
06:08 cmarcelo 23.5
06:08 audreyt oh. try something with all misses?
06:09 cmarcelo well, still on error margin...
06:09 cmarcelo ok
06:09 audreyt my @a = (@a => 1..1000)
06:09 audreyt er, nvm
06:10 audreyt my (@a, @b, @c, @d, @e, @f, @g, @h);
06:10 audreyt @a = (@a => @b => @c => @d => @e => @f => @g => @h)
06:10 lambdabot Maybe you meant: all-dicts arr ask . v
06:10 cmarcelo okok
06:14 QtPlatypus Would @a = [=>] (@a,@b,@c,@d,@e,@f,@g,@h); Be equiverlent or would I have to use ;
06:15 audreyt I think you want ;, because otherwise it flattens
06:15 cmarcelo N=10000, difference is less than 0.1 (pugs-local wins).. =|
06:15 audreyt oh well. ;)
06:15 audreyt it's not a critical loop anyway
06:15 audreyt as long as the output is the same..
06:16 audreyt maybe it's better to write your own bench
06:16 audreyt but I'd worry about CollectionM first
06:17 cmarcelo Types/Hash.hs is more time critical?
06:17 cmarcelo Collection stuff => is my next step. i wasn't even suppose to be hacking on HsJudy these days =o)
06:20 audreyt :D
06:20 audreyt yes, Types/Hash.hs (IHash) and Types/Array.hs (IArray)
06:20 audreyt are the original motivation for the Job Ad
06:20 audreyt I mean, SoC project idea
06:22 iblechbot joined perl6
06:25 cmarcelo well, i think (hope? hehe) JudyHS can compete in IHash area at least.
06:26 cmarcelo gotta go sleep
06:27 cmarcelo have a good trip
06:27 cmarcelo &
06:27 cmarcelo left perl6
06:28 audreyt g'nite :)
06:36 dduncan joined perl6
06:38 dduncan unobe, it was only the very end of t/pugsrun/07-dash-uppercase-v.t that I initially had a problem with when smoking, but I couldn't recreate that error when I ran the test in isolation
06:39 dduncan also, as always, I have been using the pure-Haskell Pugs ... no alternate backends of any kind
06:40 audreyt I can't dup that but I can dup leo's proxy.t err
06:40 audreyt investigating
06:51 mugwump joined perl6
06:57 marmic joined perl6
06:59 viirya joined perl6
07:13 * audreyt wonders what's wrong with harness
07:14 audreyt in any case, I gotta run to airport now... be back in 1.5hr
07:17 audreyt &
07:19 unobe joined perl6
07:54 kane__ joined perl6
07:56 SM_ax joined perl6
08:20 buetow joined perl6
08:26 lisppaste3 joined perl6
09:00 audreyt rehi from cks airport
09:03 webmind cks ?
09:03 webmind where would that be? :)
09:05 audreyt .tw
09:05 webmind ah ok
09:05 webmind and wb btw :)
09:05 dduncan so the trip was uneventful
09:05 elmex joined perl6
09:06 audreyt nice that the flight comes with complimentary 30min facial skin treatment session and moisturizer bottles
09:06 dduncan were you in 1st class?  I've never heard of such a thing
09:06 dduncan on flights I take, they give you food and magazines, maybe pillows
09:07 dduncan but I don't go first class
09:07 audreyt no, it's couch
09:07 audreyt economy class
09:07 dduncan or is it just a difference between asian and na airlines
09:08 audreyt I'm taking KLM (.nl) airlines...
09:08 webmind audreyt, that is nice..
09:08 audreyt maybe it's a difference between asian and na airports
09:08 webmind dduncan, crappy food even on my flights
09:09 dduncan I haven't found anything to complain about with food that I've got while flying ... in "regular class"
09:09 dduncan s/regular/$regular/
09:09 dduncan sure, its not like from a quality restaurant, but its not terrible
09:10 webmind well I guess it's doable.. it just never had much taste... can't say btw that I had much flights with food
09:10 audreyt weirdly I can't duplicate the "(stub)" error when I change "make test" targets to it alone
09:10 webmind just 4or6
09:11 dduncan I surmise its possible that was a transient error, maybe a side effect of multi-process communication gone bad
09:11 dduncan I'll see if it goes away when testing another preflight and/or the final version
09:11 dduncan or I can re-smoke the same pre0 if that is helpful ... but as it would late, that would happen tomorrow
09:12 audreyt mmmhmm
09:13 svnbot6 r10677 | audreyt++ | * inc::Module::Install::Pugs - sort the tests before "make test"'ing
09:13 svnbot6 r10677 | audreyt++ |   in the vain hope that the proxy.t failure is order dependent.
09:15 audreyt dduncan: you see the error on "make smoke" with conc=4?
09:15 audreyt I see it with "make test" and no conc
09:20 pjmm joined perl6
09:22 svnbot6 r10678 | audreyt++ | * explicitly use the same order and test sequence in "make smoke"
09:26 phpError joined perl6
09:28 dduncan those were my settings, yes
09:29 dduncan I will do the same procecure as earlier, on the same tarball, tomorrow, to test in case the situation was transient or not
09:30 dduncan but I had conc = 4, on a 2 cpu system, and so each Pugs took around 46% of a cpu
09:30 audreyt nod, but somehow I think there are other explanations
09:30 audreyt did you upload the smoke report?
09:30 dduncan quite possible
09:30 dduncan yes
09:30 audreyt which one was that?
09:31 dduncan I made a note to this channel in real-time as I did each stage
09:31 dduncan http://m19s28.vlinux.de/iblech/stuff/pugs-​smokes/pugs-smoke-6.2.12-r0-darwin-normal-​-1150152530-8940--11539-11538-1-1353-1727-​0--9a706ac655bb81ab3fff0ee80520a1d0.html
09:31 dduncan mine is the first line item under release/darwin
09:32 audreyt 'k. let me attempt a fix
09:32 dduncan now, in my prior experience, 'stub' is what you get if you declare N tests, then do N-1
09:33 dduncan N being 69 in this case
09:33 audreyt yes, so reasonably it died after the penultimate test
09:34 dduncan but when I did a direct ./pugs t/pugsrun/07-dash-uppercase-v.t, with a copy of Test.pm in the Pugs root dir, it ran all 69
09:34 dduncan I didn't look close enough, but either the test died, or the IPC cut off before #69 was transferred
09:35 dduncan IPC to the harness
09:37 dduncan given the nature of this issue, it may be specific to me and/or transient ... don't feel the need to hold up the release to attend to this
09:37 dduncan it is still pre-alpha anyway
09:38 dduncan good night
09:38 dduncan left perl6
09:39 audreyt ok, I have a conjecture
09:39 audreyt "slurp" was being too lazy and destroyed by the "unlink" next lie
09:40 audreyt fixing
09:51 macroron joined perl6
09:52 audreyt identified as a race condition
09:52 audreyt made slurp() as strict as possible
09:54 audreyt committed. entering boarding area, bbiab...
09:54 svnbot6 r10679 | audreyt++ | * 07-dash-uppercase-v.t: Be a bit more precise by using index()
09:54 svnbot6 r10679 | audreyt++ |   instead of a PCRE regex to test output message.
09:54 svnbot6 r10680 | audreyt++ | * Pugs.Prim: Made "slurp" as strict as possible, to counter
09:54 svnbot6 r10680 | audreyt++ |   this race condition triggered in t/pugsrun/07-uppercase-v.t:
09:54 svnbot6 r10680 | audreyt++ |     system("./pugs ... > tmpfile");
09:54 svnbot6 r10680 | audreyt++ |     my $output = slurp("tmpfile");
09:54 svnbot6 r10680 | audreyt++ |     unlink("tmpfile");
09:54 svnbot6 r10680 | audreyt++ |   granted, we can work around that in the test by delaying
09:54 svnbot6 r10680 | audreyt++ |   the unlink() toward an END block, but somehow I don't think
09:54 svnbot6 r10680 | audreyt++ |   Perl programmers can be trained to do that...
10:14 froh-doh joined perl6
10:25 * theorbtwo wonders if the unlink could force the slurp, instead of just maximal-strictness.
10:25 theorbtwo That sounds like a lot of work, though.
10:26 theorbtwo Is Perl6-Pugs-6.2.12/docs/feather/~/gen.pl supposed to be in the pre0?  It looks like a temp file...
10:41 rashakil joined perl6
10:48 Juerd It's ugly code, but not temp :)
10:49 Juerd <p>
10:49 Juerd To update this listing, run <tt>perl gen.pl</tt> in <tt>pugs/docs/feather/~</tt>
10:49 Juerd and wait for the automatic update.
10:49 Juerd </p>
11:09 mschmidt joined perl6
11:09 azuroth joined perl6
11:09 azuroth yeah yeah, yeah the cow is back
11:17 weinig|sleep is now known as weinig|work
11:20 Ymmv joined perl6
11:54 frederico joined perl6
12:00 jsiracusa joined perl6
12:01 pasteling "leo" at 195.3.113.168 pasted "pugs r10680 make test results" (12 lines, 834B) at http://sial.org/pbot/17711
12:01 lambdabot The title of that page is "Paste #17711 from "leo" at 195.3.113.168"
12:04 QtPlatypus mmmmm
12:04 QtPlatypus http//www.arts.usyd.edu.au/
12:05 azuroth sydney, eh?
12:06 iblechbot joined perl6
12:07 * QtPlatypus was just wondering if lambdabot chases down every URL
12:07 QtPlatypus And yes I'm from sydney
12:08 azuroth I'm from newcastle :-)
12:09 QtPlatypus And apprently the bot is from Sydney as well.
12:10 Aankhen`` joined perl6
12:19 reZo joined perl6
12:58 chris2 joined perl6
13:07 szbalint joined perl6
13:18 mako132 joined perl6
13:44 rzoz joined perl6
13:48 rzoz joined perl6
13:48 vel joined perl6
13:53 rzoz joined perl6
13:59 b_jonas joined perl6
14:10 svnbot6 r10681 | fglock++ | Pugs-Compiler-Rule - fixed a bug in <alpha> rule
14:12 FurnaceBoy joined perl6
14:25 svnbot6 r10682 | fglock++ | Pugs-Grammar-Perl6 - works again; s/Rule/Regex/ for now
14:37 fglock joined perl6
14:37 svnbot6 r10683 | fglock++ | Pugs-Compiler-Rule - version 0.05 in CPAN
14:38 fglock audreyt: is it ok to remove Pugs-Compiler-Rule form perl5/ ?
14:42 pjmm left perl6
14:44 bjoern_ joined perl6
14:45 bjoern_ joined perl6
14:46 fglock s/form/from/
14:48 scw fglock: Hi, I'm facing my homework/course project/final exams these days
14:49 fglock scw: hi!
14:50 scw (seems it's our first responsed irc chat :p)
14:51 fglock I've been working mostly off-line too :)
14:52 fglock with the last fix, text constants work again - you don't need to use <'text'>
14:52 scw oh, so that's the reason!
14:53 scw ya, I choose the ugly syntax since simple text didn't work
14:55 sahadev joined perl6
15:05 nothingmuch joined perl6
15:06 fglock lunch &
15:07 fglock left perl6
15:07 Maddingue joined perl6
15:24 ruoso joined perl6
15:40 justatheory joined perl6
16:03 spinclad 10675 test results:
16:03 spinclad Failed Test  Stat Wstat Total Fail  Failed  List of Failed
16:03 spinclad ----------------------------------------​---------------------------------------
16:03 spinclad t/oo/proxy.t               18    6  33.33%  4 6 9 13 15 18
16:03 spinclad 942 subtests skipped.
16:03 spinclad Failed 1/521 test scripts, 99.81% okay. 6/9479 subtests failed, 99.94% okay.
16:05 spinclad (x86 debian linux, embedded perl5 and parrot)
16:26 ushi joined perl6
16:30 bernhard joined perl6
16:36 unobe left perl6
16:39 svnbot6 r10684 | fglock++ | Pugs-Grammar-Perl6 - <ident> rewritten to perl6
16:41 sahadev joined perl6
16:48 weinig|work joined perl6
16:51 ludan joined perl6
17:11 buetow joined perl6
17:42 kcwu joined perl6
17:52 svnbot6 r10685 | fglock++ | Pugs-Compiler-Rule - implemented :Perl5 switch
18:03 ushi left perl6
18:05 elmex joined perl6
18:18 DaGo joined perl6
18:18 Ymmv joined perl6
18:21 sahadev hello, i have a question about file I/O in Perl6. does the "File" object let me do something like:
18:21 sahadev $fh.readline -> $line { say (++$i).as("%4d: ", $line }
18:28 PerlJam What specifically are you asking
18:28 PerlJam ?
18:29 sahadev PerlJam: i guess i am asking if the file object provides an interator method which can take arbitray block of code
18:30 Aankh|Clone joined perl6
18:30 sahadev s/interator/iterator/
18:30 PerlJam Um ... probably not given that we have "for" as the universal iterator.  for =$fh -> line { ... }
18:31 PerlJam or,  I suppose that could be spelt for $fh.readline -> $line { ... }   (given the inherent laziness of perl6)
18:31 sahadev ah. ok.
18:34 penk joined perl6
18:35 justatheory joined perl6
18:36 sahadev also, what is the equivalent of $. special variable?
18:36 sahadev nevermind. found it.
18:37 sahadev $?LINE
18:37 sahadev thanks.
18:42 sahadev hmm. looks like I misread the meaning of $?LINE. it doesn't look like the equivalent of $. (which is the line number that has just been read). it seems to be the equivalent of __LINE__. is it?
18:42 spinclad yes
18:42 PerlJam probably.  $?mumble are compile-time thingies
18:42 sahadev so, what is the equivalent in Perl6 of $. of Perl5?
18:43 PerlJam sahadev: perhaps $fh.line.  perhaps +$fh
18:43 PerlJam perhaps boths
18:43 PerlJam er, both
18:43 sahadev neither of them work in recent pugs
18:44 reZo joined perl6
18:47 PerlJam unless I've forgotten how to read haskell, it doesn't appear to be implemented at all.
18:48 sahadev ok. thanks again.
19:25 SamB joined perl6
19:48 Qiang joined perl6
20:03 fglock joined perl6
20:25 dduncan joined perl6
20:39 mako132 joined perl6
20:44 dduncan I am now beginning an identical smoke to yesterday of pre0, to possibly prove how transient the 1 failure was yesterday
20:44 dduncan regardless of the results, I will subsequently smoke the trunk
20:45 dduncan the first should be done in 2.5 hours
21:40 putter joined perl6
21:41 putter audreyt: while smoke runs, here is a quick thought on the release notes, and expectation management.
21:42 putter I have been struck by the degree to which "normal professional perl folk" have written off p6.
21:42 putter At a high-order 10 people perl mongers, a "who expects to try using p6 in the next year?  two?" may not garner a single hand.
21:44 putter Perhaps it's the years of "And now _this_ works! :)"  announcements, notably from parrot, when, they never really do, and the whole thing isn't even vaguely usable anyway.
21:46 larsen joined perl6
21:47 froh-doh joined perl6
21:47 putter *If* we want to begin changing that, gathering attention now-ish, rather than waiting for pugs to be "tada, it works!", then it seems like there is an exercise in expectation management.
21:49 putter Ie, a release note should ideally provide the reader with a thorough and accurate expectation of what will and wont work, and how well.  Ideally so noone who tries it will be at all surprised by what is/isnt working.
21:51 putter I don't think we've ever really written that paragraph.  STATUS was something like it for a while, but was still more a grabbag of facts, requiring the reader to form their own expectation by reading between the lines.
21:51 Ymmv joined perl6
21:53 putter And there is much important expectation info which is never really documented, except transiently on irc.
21:58 putter Eg, Q - do objects work?  A - not really.  There is a large directory of passing oo tests, and many small modules have been written.  But no-one has ever written a large oo program in p6.  Type inferencer and other bugs have made that infeasible.  The hope was to fix them in May.  Of 2005.  Ther
21:58 putter e is no current estimate on when there might be some progress.
21:59 weinig|work is now known as weinig
22:00 putter Note how dramatically different this is than "we're passing all the oo tests again!".
22:02 putter Our tests are regression tests.  We report "expected failure todo's" as successes.  And it's been a long time since anyone really tried to spew a lot of (inevitably failing) tests based on the language spec.  We're being much more incremental than that.
22:03 putter Which is all fine for "us", an audience of pugs developers.  But that's perhaps not the target audience of either the blog, or the release notes.
22:06 putter Potential _users_ of pugs/p6 what will and wont work if they try it.
22:08 putter Can I do oo?  Some.  Nothing big.  Expect problems.  "Been there for a year, maybe fix them this year" problems.
22:09 putter You wouldn't even know from the "secondary literature" how much the perl6 design is still a work in progress.
22:11 macroron joined perl6
22:13 putter One could form an impression of "they've been trying to implement the spec for years, and still haven't managed it.  either they're bozos, or the language is a disaster".  Little actually says "the pugs/perl6 effort is one of _exploratory design and implementation_".  Certainly not our release notes.
22:21 iblechbot joined perl6
22:22 PerlJam putter: aren't we a bunch of bozos?
22:22 * putter takes off his big red nose and floppy shoes
22:22 putter no.
22:23 PerlJam putter: but in any case, I just read all that stuff you just wrote and I agree completely.
22:30 putter "Perl6 is the exploratory language design and implementation effort which will result in the next major, and much richer, version of perl.  Perl6 is [... audreyt had a nice sentence summarizing what p6 is from a CS perspective, illustrating neatness and challenge...].  It's taking a while because it hard, we'r
22:32 putter e a handful of people working unfunded in our spare time, limitations of the p5 runtime forced a non-incremental effort, and we've had project management problems.
22:40 putter aside(eg, not part of intro paraphragh) - Creating as language which lets you do what you want to do, flexibly and powerfully, is hard.  CS research kind of hard.  Perl6 will be a notable accomplishment in language engineering.  With only something like mid-order 10 FTE's working on it, that takes time.  Especially if the effort is a bit chaotic.
22:45 putter PerlJam: nod
22:47 putter hmm.  need a "project journalist"?  someone to go around and ask everyone "what are you working on?  why?  how? etc" and summarize.
22:49 putter running late.  smoke still in progress.  yay, a preflight.  cheers &
22:50 putter PerlJam: given agreement, the next question is "what to do?", what might be usefully added to our todo list...
22:50 putter &
22:54 Maddingue joined perl6
22:59 fishb0t which synopsis is p6 open() doc'd in?
23:16 buubot joined perl6
23:18 buu is now known as buubot
23:18 buubot is now known as buu
23:19 buubot joined perl6
23:23 buubot joined perl6
23:27 trym joined perl6

| Channels | #perl6 index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo