Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2006-06-14

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

| Channels | #perl6 index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary

All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:05 jsiracusa joined perl6
00:10 dduncan er, actually, the resmoke ended an hour ago ...
00:11 dduncan and this resmoke of the exact same build (no 'make' was repeated) showed zero errors, ...
00:11 dduncan this pretty much proves the 1 error before was transient
00:13 fishb0t what's the current state of the PIR output by pugs?
00:14 fishb0t If I try to use the head parrot as a backend, I get IMCC errors...
00:55 hikozaemon joined perl6
01:06 dudleyf joined perl6
01:13 dudleyf left perl6
01:28 shachaf joined perl6
01:29 ajs_home joined perl6
02:23 nothingmuch is anyone here from the new york area (or willing to travel a bit) interested in a 2-3 day hike around July 8th-11th (after YAPC)?
02:45 putter joined perl6
02:47 shachaf joined perl6
02:50 pasteling "putter" at 66.30.119.55 pasted "r10685 make test. smoke also uploaded. 51 regressions in 10 files." (18 lines, 1.1K) at http://sial.org/pbot/17723
02:54 putter PerlJam, etal: earlier, I shouldn't have suggested a jump straight to "what to do" about it (p6 expectation management), as further brainstorming what the problem is could be a useful prelude.  ah well.
03:02 putter steven: moose came up in a yapc prep talk on inside-out objects.  but in a rather fuzzy.  if you have an inside-out story you would like broadcast, you might talk with Golden before his talk.
03:02 putter night &
03:06 drbean_ joined perl6
03:35 stevan putter: I have talked with golden before about this stuff
03:35 mako132_ joined perl6
03:36 stevan we are planning to talk at YAPC about how to improve Moose/Class::MOP's inside-out capabilities
03:51 unobe joined perl6
03:52 unobe i
03:53 unobe 've figured out that to use PGE with pugs, I need to have one of two directories:
03:54 unobe 1) either the subdirectory src/pge with run_pge.pir in it (under the build directory), or
03:54 unobe 2) /System/Library/Perl6/darwin-thr​ead-multi-2level/CORE/pugs/pge/ with run_pge.pir in it
03:55 lambdabot joined perl6
03:56 unobe I think this is because of src/Pugs/Prim/Match.hs (lines 20-21). BTW, I'm running os x
03:57 unobe so if you delete the build directory after you build pugs, then PGE rules won't work in pugs :-(
04:03 unobe so just make sure to copy run_pge.pir into CORE/pugs/pge under whatever directory pugs -V gives as the installarchlib
04:04 unobe left perl6
04:11 sahadev2 joined perl6
04:14 rawr joined perl6
04:39 dduncan joined perl6
05:14 buetow joined perl6
06:27 mtve joined perl6
06:41 Aankhen`` joined perl6
07:19 bjoern_ joined perl6
07:25 _cnhackT_ joined perl6
07:26 _cnhackT_ left perl6
07:27 xerox joined perl6
07:28 xerox joined perl6
07:44 iblechbot joined perl6
07:55 kanru joined perl6
08:05 dduncan left perl6
08:08 xern joined perl6
08:15 marmic joined perl6
08:28 kane__ joined perl6
08:37 lisppaste3 joined perl6
08:42 elmex joined perl6
09:15 svnbot6 r10686 | audreyt++ | * LICENSE/: Add MIT and LGPL-2.1 license text.
09:24 svnbot6 r10687 | audreyt++ | * MANIFEST.SKIP: We are not shipping TextRegexLazy for this release.
09:27 svnbot6 r10688 | audreyt++ | * "make ghci" now builds its own deps without requiring
09:27 svnbot6 r10688 | audreyt++ |   "make pugs" to be executed first.
09:27 svnbot6 r10689 | audreyt++ | * Properly finalize parrot on embparrot because calling parrot_exit.
09:27 svnbot6 r10690 | audreyt++ | * minor explicit-import style fix
09:31 szbalint audreyt: (If you've got time for a discussion) I've been wondering about roles and classes: Is there a way to intercept method calls to a class (for example for logging purposes), while the mechanism for that being in a Role?
09:33 ludan joined perl6
09:33 ludan ciao
09:36 audreyt szbalint: look at Moose.pm :)
09:36 audreyt (and irc.perl.org #moose)
09:36 audreyt moose allows for prehandlers
09:36 audreyt I don't think it's part of canonical perl6
09:36 audreyt but it looks sensible
09:37 szbalint oh :)
09:37 szbalint ta!
09:38 audreyt np :)
09:48 svnbot6 r10691 | audreyt++ | * System.FilePath - Synchronize from Distribution.Compat.FilePath.
09:58 svnbot6 r10692 | audreyt++ | * Ditto for Pugs.hs.
10:04 svnbot6 r10693 | audreyt++ | * t/oo/proxy.t: disable test due to incoherent test results.
10:07 svnbot6 r10694 | audreyt++ | * README: Update third-party module notice; add Rosetta,
10:07 svnbot6 r10694 | audreyt++ |   WTemplate and Locale-KeyedText to non-perl-license
10:07 svnbot6 r10694 | audreyt++ |   ext/ listing; incoporate wording fixes from Allison Randal
10:07 svnbot6 r10694 | audreyt++ |   and The Perl Foundation; Pugs is now properly copyrighted
10:07 svnbot6 r10694 | audreyt++ |   by the "Pugs Contributors" so that I can disclaim my personal
10:07 svnbot6 r10694 | audreyt++ |   compilation right over it.
10:11 wilx joined perl6
10:26 gaal hey all. still loaded with $work but just popping in to report a minor problem - running make triggers a relink, even when a pugs and libpugs already exist. so 'make ; make smoke' for example takes a few seconds longer than it should.
10:43 audreyt nod. it's in build_pugs.pl
10:43 audreyt prevent build_exe with some timestampy thing?
11:09 chris2 joined perl6
11:11 neoesque joined perl6
11:11 szbalint Is there a possibility though that prehandlers will be part of Perl6?
11:15 audreyt you mean "before" and "after"?
11:15 audreyt well, you can do that with .wrap
11:15 audreyt but I'm pretty sure I'd like it to be part of perl6-as-implemented
11:15 audreyt not sure about perl6-as-specced
11:15 audreyt stevan will meet timtoady in YAPC::NA hackathon
11:15 audreyt they'll hash it out :)
11:24 audreyt method foo is PRE { ... }
11:24 audreyt maybe
11:24 audreyt not sure
11:25 audreyt I wonder why subtype is renamed subset...
11:31 szbalint oh okay
11:31 szbalint :)
11:33 szbalint Something unrelated, there is a most likely outdated (but passing) test in t/oo/roles about instantiating roles, while S12 says roles cannot be directly instantiated. I take S12 is correct?
11:37 Juerd It may or may not be correct, but it is the leading spec, so the test is in error.
11:40 szbalint_ joined perl6
11:43 audreyt right.
11:44 szbalint_ audreyt: btw, is there any estimate on when pugs will have runtime role mixin ability?
11:44 szbalint_ is now known as szbalint
11:45 audreyt after NPW :)
11:45 audreyt and before YAPC::NA hackathon is over
11:46 szbalint okay, nice :)
11:53 jsiracusa joined perl6
11:56 weinig joined perl6
12:12 obra audreyt: are you in .no?
12:12 frederico joined perl6
12:18 audreyt obra: yup
12:18 audreyt in hotel now
12:18 audreyt writing slides
12:18 obra heh. I need to finish that tonight
12:18 audreyt me too
12:18 obra we're in room 420
12:18 audreyt oh. maybe I'll go visit
12:18 audreyt but I'm afraid that'll kill my slidemaking
12:18 obra I'm not there now
12:18 obra kaia may be
12:18 audreyt ah.
12:19 obra I'm getting dragged to a dinner at 19:00
12:19 audreyt when you going to head back?
12:19 audreyt metoo, but if ENOSLIDE then not going
12:19 obra will be in the hotel after that
12:19 audreyt 'k
12:19 obra I'm a little worried about it.
12:19 obra is this the dinner with the uio people?
12:19 audreyt I'm doubly worried
12:19 audreyt since I'm codegen'ing to Keynote
12:19 obra ?! why?
12:19 lambdabot Maybe you meant: . v
12:19 audreyt er, fun
12:19 obra :)
12:19 obra ok. cool
12:19 obra I'll want your takahashi.key ;)
12:20 audreyt but probably going to get contents written first
12:20 audreyt (what a concept)
12:20 obra :)
12:20 obra what's the dinner you might go to? (Trying to figure out if it's the same as mine)
12:20 audreyt same
12:21 audreyt 7pm at subway station
12:21 obra if so, come and bring your laptop. it'll give me ammo to do mine too
12:21 audreyt mmmoose
12:21 audreyt my talk is all about moose now
12:21 audreyt scary
12:21 audreyt s/all/half/
12:22 obra neat!
12:25 iblechbot joined perl6
12:32 hugues23 joined perl6
13:03 lisppaste3 joined perl6
13:11 kanru joined perl6
13:13 wolverian Juerd, why doesn't feather have vim7?
13:35 svnbot6 r10695 | fglock++ | Pugs-Compiler-Rule/temp - partial rewrite of the backtracking engine
13:41 QtPlatypus joined perl6
13:46 rzoz joined perl6
14:08 vel joined perl6
14:20 Juerd wolverian: Because it hasn't been dist-upgraded in a while
14:20 Juerd wolverian: I'm installing vim 7 for you now
14:20 MicSch joined perl6
14:20 MicSch joined perl6
14:21 Juerd wolverian: Done
14:31 MicSch left perl6
14:35 gaal half moose, half elk, half caribou
14:35 gaal and half wapiti (I could go on and on)
14:36 audreyt :)
14:36 * audreyt is in JIT slide making rush
14:36 audreyt release is looking good modulo chglogging
14:37 gaal sorry i couldn't be more helpful there :(
15:01 bjoern_ joined perl6
15:04 stevan audreyt: please post your slides when you have a chance,.. I would love to see them :)
15:07 rashakil_ joined perl6
15:13 gaal that Calvin and Hobbes strip has forever been appropriate...
15:13 gaal ("last minute panic")
15:13 * gaal hasn't finished his slides either
15:15 gaal does the ratchet stuff change relevant slides in the peek talk? I have to look at S05 again
15:22 christopher joined perl6
15:24 bpederse joined perl6
15:27 wolverian Juerd, thanks. is it ok if I upgrade it too if I see it hasn't been upgraded in a while?
15:36 buetow joined perl6
15:36 Juerd wolverian: No.
15:37 wolverian Juerd, okay.
15:37 Juerd wolverian: If you upgrade individual packages, that's fine, because then you know exactly what to test.
15:37 Juerd But after a system upgrade, often stuff like mail gets broken
15:37 Juerd And it's routine for me to check that
15:37 wolverian makes sense.
15:37 wolverian thanks. :)
15:41 sahadev joined perl6
15:50 prozessor13 joined perl6
16:03 buubot joined perl6
16:17 iblechbot joined perl6
16:27 shachaf joined perl6
16:43 chris2 joined perl6
16:49 Robe joined perl6
16:56 justatheory joined perl6
16:57 sahadev hello, isn't the shift builtin fuction supposed to shift from the @*ARGS array?
16:57 sahadev $ pugs -e 'say shift || 10'
16:57 sahadev ***
16:57 sahadev    unexpected "|"
16:57 sahadev    expecting term
16:57 sahadev    at -e line 1, column 11
16:57 sahadev @*ARGS.shift works, though
16:57 lambdabot Unknown command, try @list
16:58 bjoern_ is now known as DEpwnsPL
17:04 nothingmuch ?eval 'shift'
17:04 evalbot_10662 is now known as evalbot_10699
17:04 evalbot_10699 "shift"
17:04 nothingmuch ?eval shift
17:04 evalbot_10699 Error:  unexpected end of input expecting term
17:04 nothingmuch eh, used to perl -e
17:04 nothingmuch uhm, it looks like you'll have to specify it explicitlty
17:04 nothingmuch the parser is treating it as a unary operator (i think)
17:05 ludan joined perl6
17:05 ludan ciao
17:05 sahadev so, is it supposed to be fixed eventually?
17:05 nothingmuch probably
17:05 sahadev ok. thanks.
17:06 nothingmuch ciao ludan
17:35 frederico joined perl6
17:55 lisppaste3 joined perl6
18:02 svnbot6 r10700 | fglock++ | Pugs-Compiler-Rule/temp - new backtracking engine
18:39 prozessor13 left perl6
18:39 pbelau joined perl6
18:40 pbelau hey, can someone tell me what an unstacked call is in the perl world ?
18:47 YetAnotherEric joined perl6
18:55 macroron joined perl6
18:58 spinclad could you say what it is elsewhere?
18:59 spinclad what's called an inlined call in C/C++ ?
19:00 spinclad *is it what is called ...
19:14 dduncan joined perl6
19:24 pbelau spinclad, i'm not quite sure what an "unstacked" call would in C/C++
19:25 pbelau i figured it out though
19:30 SamB joined perl6
19:42 svnbot6 r10701 | Darren_Duncan++ | LICENSE/ : Updated the LGPL to the current version, which includes the FSF's current Franklin Street address rather than Temple Place ... anyone else using a FSF license should likewise indicate their current address in references
19:44 wilx joined perl6
20:22 dduncan I am now starting a smoke of r10701
20:50 DEpwnsPL is now known as bjoern_
20:57 svnbot6 r10702 | audreyt++ | * add tomorrow's talk before sleep.  about 30% finished... oh well.
20:57 gaal pbelau: in Perl 5, goto-&sub reuses the current stack frame. if you mean inlining a function there's no such general purpose thing, though the optimizer happens to fold some constants, e.g. "sub pi () {3.14999}".
20:58 gaal pbelau: in Perl 6, I suppose you could use macros for some of these things.
20:58 audreyt szbalint: to answer your earlier question. the standard translation from Moose:
20:58 gaal good night and good luck, audrey
20:58 audreyt before 'foo' => sub { $self->bar };
20:58 audreyt is this perl 6:
20:58 gaal (talking in movie titles? oops)
20:58 audreyt method foo { $.bar; call }
20:59 audreyt so I think we don't actually need another trait for PRE/POST
20:59 audreyt the "call" makes explicit the fact
20:59 audreyt and you can even change the args by saying
20:59 gaal didn't there use to be one in s06?
20:59 audreyt call(...alternate args...)
20:59 gaal ISTR BEFORE and AFTER...?
21:01 gaal ah, there's ENTER and LEAVE in s04
21:01 gaal PRE and POST there are design-by-contractish things.
21:01 gaal <L04/"Closure traits">
21:03 stevan audreyt: actually with Moose, you can attach a before/around/after method to a locally defined method as well
21:04 stevan it tends to be more useful in augmenting supermethods, but when added by Roles, there comes situations where it might apply the modifier to the local method too
21:04 stevan audreyt: I wanna see your slides :)
21:05 stevan pleeeeeeeaaaasseeeee :)
21:05 stevan I'll give you kharma if you do
21:05 * stevan dangles the kharma karrot
21:06 * stevan ponders the kharmic impact of abusing kharma in this way ... hmm
21:07 gaal stevan: r10702
21:08 stevan doh!
21:08 stevan stevan-- # for not backlogging
21:08 stevan see,.. thats the kharmic impact... i am doomed :P
21:08 gaal "I want to see your slides" is not nearly as wicked-sounding as "You wanna see my modules?"
21:09 stevan or even worse.. "do you wanna pet my monkey?"
21:09 stevan that one always scared me
21:11 gaal audreyt: the <title> is weird
21:13 gaal not that that matters in fullscreen mode
21:14 * stevan can't get the xul to work
21:15 ingy i stevan
21:15 ingy h
21:15 stevan heya ingy
21:15 stevan where in the world are you now ingy?
21:15 gaal in the slide with "has overdraft_account" is the "o"-ish character at the end of the line intentional?
21:16 ingy Seattle
21:16 stevan ah,.. they let you back in ... good :)
21:16 ingy heh
21:16 * stevan had to save the file to his desktop to get the xul to work,.. how odd...
21:16 ingy I'll have a motorcycle in Chicago
21:16 ingy w00t
21:16 stevan nice
21:17 gaal will you be zentaining it?
21:17 stevan ingy: nothingmuch can be your biker bitch then
21:17 ingy yeah...
21:17 ingy he can get in line :p
21:17 weinig joined perl6
21:17 gaal hahaha, ingy, you should look at audrey's slides
21:17 ingy url?
21:18 * ingy fears
21:18 * stevan doesn't hate Ingy,.. even though he wrote Spiffy
21:18 gaal ingy: svk pull ; firefox docs/talks/deploy.xul
21:18 wolverian audreyt, s/reconcilling/reconciling/ on slide 20
21:18 ingy wolverian: you have commit :P
21:19 wolverian yeah, but I have a checkout in progress :)
21:19 wolverian only 9000 revisions to go
21:19 ingy yowch
21:19 ingy I hate the way svk won't let you do two things at once
21:20 PerlJam ingy: complain to bestpractical.com and maybe they'll pay clkao to "fix" it.
21:20 PerlJam :-)
21:20 ingy PerlJam: did cl move to Boston?
21:21 PerlJam no idea if there was any physical movement.
21:21 PerlJam given the nature of the people involved, I wouldn't be surprised if there was none.
21:24 stevan especially considering that clkao write svk specifically so he could hack from the .tw mountains
21:24 stevan (or at least that is one of his oft quoted reasons)
21:25 gaal good niht &
21:25 gaal but with a g
21:26 stevan goog niht gaal :P
21:26 gaal stevang :)
21:36 dduncan wolverian, unless you need all the revisions, you could just have svk checkout the later ones ... eg, just those from The 6.2.11 release and later
21:36 dduncan much faster
21:37 dduncan having all is useful mainly if you want to have an archive
21:37 wolverian I like doing it the hard way
21:37 dduncan getting just specific revs is something like a -n switch
21:38 wolverian yeah.
21:38 dduncan or a -<some letter>
21:38 wolverian it's -n, where n is a number, in the interactive checkout
21:38 wolverian I'm doing that now, too, on another computer, so I can compare :)
21:38 dduncan interactive checkout not necessary for what I'm thinking of
21:39 szbalint audreyt: cool.
21:40 szbalint at 'before' :)
21:41 dduncan wolverian, now that I look at it, I think it is -r
21:41 dduncan during svk update
21:42 Qiang joined perl6
21:42 PerlJam I often have trouble getting svk to just get the head revision for some reason.
21:43 dduncan no, its -s
21:43 PerlJam (or anything other than getting all revisions)
21:43 wolverian mm. well, it's getting the 10 most recent revisions now, but it's still taking ages. :)
21:44 wolverian (I don't know how svn stores things. going through 10k patches would take some time, I guess)
21:44 svnbot6 r10703 | fglock++ | Pugs-Compiler-Rule/temp - updated TODO list; code cleanup
21:44 dduncan the first revision always pulls the whole thing at that point, then the rest are quick
21:44 dduncan svn stores diffs
21:44 dduncan but the first revision is the whole thing
21:44 wolverian mmkay
21:44 wolverian ah, done.
21:45 dduncan wolverian, specifically what I've been trying to reference all this time is ...
21:45 dduncan under http://svk.elixus.org/?SVKUsage
21:45 lambdabot The title of that page is "SVKUsage - Kwiki"
21:45 dduncan heading "Mirroring"
21:45 dduncan If you don't want to sync every revision from the remote, you can add a -s REV option as the first revision to sync without previous changes.
21:45 dduncan that specifically is what I was using
21:46 dduncan and controls what is copied from the server
21:46 dduncan so its not -n or -r or such
21:46 dduncan and this is not interactive, not any more than the plain 'sync'
21:46 svnbot6 r10704 | wolverian++ | typo in deploy.xul
21:47 dduncan did you get all that?
21:48 * dduncan back in an hour
21:55 wolverian dduncan, I was using co directly.
21:55 wolverian but thanks, that's useful.
21:57 froh-doh joined perl6
22:02 stevan audreyt: you have probably seen this, but... http://www.hlvm.org/
22:02 lambdabot The title of that page is "High Level Virtual Machine"
22:02 stevan thanks lambdabot
22:08 ludan joined perl6
22:18 jsiracusa joined perl6
22:22 svnbot6 r10705 | fglock++ | Pugs-Compiler-Rule/temp - positional and named captures are ok
22:28 wolverian by the way, I was accepted to my CS dept's student research programme, which is basically an extra curriculum of research-oriented lectures and meetings. we talked about pugs in the interview, it was fun, and I think it helped :)
22:37 bpederse left perl6
22:43 bpederse joined perl6
22:53 QtPlatypus wolverian: Congrats
22:53 wolverian QtPlatypus, thanks :)
23:41 penk left perl6
23:47 bpederse left perl6
23:55 dduncan smoke of 10701 completed some time ago ... uploaded
23:55 dduncan it has 65 errors, more than the pre0
23:56 dduncan but t/pugsrun/07-dash-uppercase-v.t is not one of the failures

| Channels | #perl6 index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo