Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2006-06-30

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:35 cwest hrm, seems I need Pugs::Safe::safe_readline and Pugs::Safe::safe_getc
00:35 cwest In order to run an interactive shell in safe mode
00:37 * cwest wanders back to the hackathon room to find audreyt...
00:38 mauke she's here in the corner :-)
00:39 meppl gute nacht
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00:49 svnbot6 r11005 | fglock++ | v6.pm - moose-2.pl seems to compiles correctly (is Point) - but it looks different from audreyt slides
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01:00 cwest So eval() in pugs defines a new scope, which is different from perl5's idea of eval().
01:00 cwest This makes me sad. :-(
01:01 mauke how is it different?
01:07 bpphillips cwest: I think perl5 does the same thing: perl -le 'eval q(my $foo = 1); print $foo;' # prints nothing
01:09 cwest oh yes, you're right
01:09 cwest properly declared variables are, of course, only existant in eval scope
01:09 bpphillips cwest: are you still working on the interactive web shell thing that you were contemplating earlier?
01:10 cwest yes
01:10 bpphillips could you accumulate the user's commands and evaluate the entire program for each command they submit?
01:10 * bpphillips .o0{thinking that's not what you want...}
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01:11 cwest right, not what I want.
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01:18 pfenwick seen alias?
01:18 jabbot pfenwick: I havn't seen alias, pfenwick
01:24 mugwump dduncan: nice post, I replied
01:25 dduncan hello
01:25 dduncan yes, I'd really like to see those promised Set and Mapping implemented yesterday
01:25 dduncan checking email ...
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01:36 dduncan reading done; thanks for your reply
01:36 dduncan you mention parametric roles ... do the Synopsis already mention such things somewhere?
01:37 dduncan I used the term 'subset' because I considered that every valid value of the type I was declaring was a valid value of the base type ... eg, they are all valid Str or Set or Mapping
01:38 dduncan also, the parameters seemed to be shorthand for 'where' syntax
01:39 dduncan eg, "Set{Bar}" is shorthand for "Set where { all(.members).does(Bar) }"
01:39 dduncan except perhaps the former is easier to optimize away at compile time
01:39 dduncan I happened to mix both versions in my examples
01:40 dduncan mugwump, I would appreciate if you look at the ext/Relation/ I'm starting to rewrite and give feedback on the new parts at the top (the new parts are not commented out in a pod block)
01:41 dduncan of course, said class is intended to model things I would like built-in, whether they are built over your Collection or something else matters little, as long as they're easy to define and use
01:42 dduncan note in particular that the definition of a Heading is structurally recursive ...
01:42 * mugwump sighs as svn makes an operation that should take seconds take hours
01:42 dduncan a heading is a set of zero or more attributes, and an attribute may possibly be a Heading itself
01:42 mugwump yes, parametric roles have at least one line somewhere
01:42 dduncan though it would be a different Heading
01:42 mugwump :)
01:43 mugwump it confused me at first that only roles would be parametric, then I thought about it again and realised it was almost a tautology
01:43 dduncan said recursion essentially permits formal definitions of specific hierarchies
01:44 dduncan reduced to a plain Set, it is like parameterizing a Set to say that its members must be of type Set of Str, or something
01:44 dduncan or like we see Array of Array of ...
01:45 dduncan but in the case of a Tuple or Relation, each attribute there of can be a different type, some other tuples or relations, others not
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01:45 dduncan the reason the heading is recursive is that the main Heading definition specifies what Headings the attributes can have too, rather than any-old one
01:46 mugwump your "Heading" is still the role parameters
01:46 dduncan pretty much
01:47 dduncan but Perl's built-ins seemed to inspecific
01:47 mugwump you can get the role parameters via .meta (or should be able to)
01:48 dduncan the basic idea is that with a Relation, every Tuple therein needs to have the same set of attributes, with corresponding attributes being of the same type
01:48 mugwump so, assuming that there is both a Set class and a Set role,
01:48 mugwump "Relation" is a Collection subtype
01:49 dduncan the Heading declares what parts must be in common and/or restrictions for everything
01:49 dduncan yes
01:49 mugwump where the type parameters are defined
01:49 dduncan as you define Collection, Relation would be a subtype thereof
01:49 mugwump exactly.  what it adds is that conformance of types
01:49 dduncan however, the Synopsis don't contain Collection, so I'm currently defining it in terms of what it does mention
01:50 dduncan if you can get your Collection proposal endorsed by @Larry and added to the Syopsis, then I'll use that
01:50 dduncan are you at the hackathon yourself ... I'm not
01:51 mugwump no, I'm in NZ
01:51 dduncan at home
01:51 mugwump work
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01:51 dduncan well I support your idea in principle ... it is mainly details needing hashing out
01:52 mugwump The point of whether a seperate "Collection" or "Set" is quite moot, anyway
01:52 mugwump The only thing that not having a "Collection" lets you do is have duplicate tuples(ie, Seq objects appearing twice)
01:52 mugwump which only a few people care about
01:53 mugwump the point is how the role parameters are combined
01:53 dduncan I think that one reason the Synopsis specifically mention things like Set or Seq as their own things rather than having them based on a Collection is that it is often easier for a language to be built up from simpler things than built down from more complex things
01:53 dduncan so even if Collection is added, the Set may not be implemented with it
01:54 dduncan just like you don't use a Seq or Array to implement a Str (sequence of chars)
01:54 mugwump some languages do
01:54 dduncan yes, but many don't, presumably for a reason
01:54 mugwump C does.  Haskell does.
01:54 dduncan I know Pascal does
01:55 mugwump But the thing is, you don't care, because of the sugar
01:55 dduncan my main concern from language design is that your tools are easy to use and unambiguous in meaning
01:56 mugwump So, from a constraints perspective, a Set is a Collection with the constraint that each Seq has exactly one item, and that there are no duplicates.  From that perspective, the Collection is simpler.  The implementation is, well, an implementation detail
01:57 dduncan mugwump, you may have touched on this before, but is there an existing Perl 5 implementation of the Collection type you propose?
01:58 mugwump only a partial one at git://utsl.gen.nz/Coll
01:58 mugwump but it really needs a ground-up rewrite based on parametric roles
01:59 mugwump and for that I need to add parametric roles to Moose
01:59 dduncan is Coll built using Moose, or will be?
01:59 svnbot6 r11006 | fglock++ | v6.pm - infix:<-=>; infix:<+=>; infix:<err>;
01:59 svnbot6 r11006 | fglock++ | - has TYPE $var;
01:59 svnbot6 r11006 | fglock++ | - moose-3.pl compiles, with errors
01:59 mugwump it is built using Moose, yes
02:00 mugwump I got partway through that implementation before realising that the parametric roles were really quite vital to making it not suck
02:00 dduncan I looked at Moose the other day myself and debated whether to use it in my own stuff ... but I wasn't sure yet if it would make things easier or more difficult at the present
02:00 mugwump as well as being drawn by other projects
02:00 mugwump did you see audrey's slides?
02:00 dduncan not as yet
02:01 mugwump http://pugs.blogs.com/talk​s/yapcna-deploy-perl6.pdf
02:01 mugwump skip to the Moose parts
02:01 dduncan for one thing, I'm wondering whether things like Class::Std are best dumped in the transition, since Moose replaces their features
02:02 * dduncan now to dinner, back in a bit
02:02 mugwump probably.  There is a transition path - rewrite them to use Class::MOP
02:02 mugwump yeah, it's almost end of week here ... catch you next week probably
02:02 dduncan in brief, what I want to use in Perl 5 is something that lets my program design in perl 5 be as similar as possible to the corresponding perl 6 version
02:03 dduncan if Moose will help me do that, great ... otherwise, not sure if it will do what I want
02:03 mugwump Moose covers the OO part ... but read the slides for more
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02:35 svnbot6 r11007 | fglock++ | v6.pm - fixed infix:<+=>;
02:35 svnbot6 r11007 | fglock++ | - has $var = exp;
02:35 svnbot6 r11007 | fglock++ | - fail();
02:35 svnbot6 r11007 | fglock++ | - moose-3.pl compiles, looks ok
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03:24 svnbot6 r11008 | fglock++ | v6.pm - moose-4.pl compiles, has grammar problems (doesn't recognize method call)
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03:33 gaal nothingmuch: ping
03:33 fglock help wanted - convert per5/Pugs-Compiler-Perl6 moose*.pl to t/moose*.t (see existing tests for tips) - thanks!
03:35 nothingmuch gaal: pont
03:35 nothingmuch gaal: will be back soon
03:35 nothingmuch just waiting for rob
03:35 nothingmuch fglock: new stuff in Perl::Generate
03:35 nothingmuch please give me a list of requirements for stuff you'd want to make easy
03:36 nothingmuch especially from a perspective of processing (these trees are rather reusable and pretty easy to play around in)
03:36 nothingmuch or at least they should be (hence the requirement request ;-)
03:38 fglock nothingmuch: v6.pm ast is a little different, so it needs a rewrite first
03:38 fglock I'm playing with translating to Moose - it would be nice if you could take a look at Pugs::Compiler::Perl6 Emit.pm
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03:39 nothingmuch fglock: i took a short look
03:39 svnbot6 r11010 | gaal++ |  r11081@sike:  roo | 2006-06-29 22:30:04 -0500
03:39 svnbot6 r11010 | gaal++ |  * Pugs.Prim: add Pugs::Safe::safe_getc and Pugs::Safe::safe_readline
03:39 svnbot6 r11010 | gaal++ |    primitives, allowing evalservers to interface an interactive pugs.
03:39 nothingmuch i'm optimizing for what Moose will need right now
03:39 nothingmuch but I can also optimize for what you want
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03:40 nothingmuch fglock: anyway, i will be out soon, so i'll prolly see you tomorrow
03:40 nothingmuch ping me and we'll discuss
03:41 mdiep is there a way to get a *flat* list of captures from a match?
03:41 fglock nothingmuch: right now I need parameter processing in subs - clkao is investigating that
03:41 fglock and more Moose examples to try to implement (v6 and p5 versions)
03:42 nothingmuch fglock: ideally we could make some "sugar" nodes in p5
03:42 nothingmuch that map directly to an idealized p6 ast
03:42 nothingmuch (not parse tree)
03:42 nothingmuch and these will be wrappers for lower level sub nodes
03:42 nothingmuch that actually do the dirty work
03:43 nothingmuch but i need to get into your work to actually help out
03:43 nothingmuch and i haven't done so yet
03:43 nothingmuch so it's easier for you to say what you would like the most =)
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03:46 nothingmuch fglock: i'm off (birthday)
03:46 nothingmuch see you =)
03:48 fglock happy birthday!
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04:06 svnbot6 r11011 | audreyt++ | * yapc_schedule.pl - you need latest parrot trunk to run this.
04:06 svnbot6 r11011 | audreyt++ |   kolibrie++ for coming up with the syck^Wsick example of
04:06 svnbot6 r11011 | audreyt++ |   overriding "ws".
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04:21 dduncan what he said
04:49 svnbot6 r11012 | sanug++ | Audrey and Patrick described Perl 6 compilation
04:52 svnbot6 r11013 | Darren_Duncan++ | ext/Relation/ : cloned Relation.pm into the new D.pm, wherein I will try a different approach that is more struct+module like
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05:10 audreyt obra: http://perlcabal.org/~audreyt/pdf/
05:10 lambdabot Title: "Index of /~audreyt/pdf"
05:31 svnbot6 r11014 | audreyt++ | * more p6ast.hs
05:34 svnbot6 r11015 | clkao++ | v6.pm - Don't write to file when failed to compile.
06:02 clkao audreyt: if else / for are taking block as well. :/
06:02 clkao not sure where the block that used in assignment is matched from
06:03 clkao it's not in exp
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06:06 svnbot6 r11016 | clkao++ | Parse foo().method correctly.  This makes 07-isa fail because it was
06:06 svnbot6 r11016 | clkao++ | not running the right thing.
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06:39 svnbot6 r11017 | sanug++ | Audrey's new Perl5 page
06:39 svnbot6 r11018 | clkao++ | * Implement pointy sub (without siganture).
06:39 svnbot6 r11018 | clkao++ | * Change param-binding to shift to support lexical subs when passed in
06:39 svnbot6 r11018 | clkao++ |   with Code.
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06:46 dduncan ping mugwump
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07:02 svnbot6 r11019 | Darren_Duncan++ | ext/Relation/ : in a separate project branch which is 'D.pm', the Relation library is now composed entirely of immutable transparent data types defined as subsets of Str|Pair|Set|Mapping plus separate modules that declare operators for deriving other data from them
07:03 clkao things left to make the compiled v6 test.pm actually compile under p5: &?CALLER::ROUTINE, named binding, multisub
07:04 clkao and figure out how to map TEST:: namespace to the mangled one
07:05 dduncan er, regarding D, the deriving operators haven't been written yet, but all the data types have been defined, along with all their constraints
07:09 dduncan mugwump, when you have the chance, please look at the new D.pm code (its at the top, not pod-commented-out) ...
07:09 dduncan when contemplating your Collection type, what you see in D.pm now should give you a better idea exactly what shapes I want to represent
07:10 dduncan so if Collection would be flexible/capable enough to define such shapes, I know it will satisfy many needs
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07:32 svnbot6 r11020 | Darren_Duncan++ | ext/Relation/ : oops, forgot a constraint def
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07:40 dduncan note that if you want to see something that looks like what DBI's fetch_all_hash_ref() returns, the RelationBody type is nearly identical (it is a set of mappings rather than an array of hashes)
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07:47 svnbot6 r11021 | clkao++ | TODO for making Test.pm work.
07:50 svnbot6 r11022 | clkao++ | ignore .tc files.
07:50 svnbot6 r11023 | clkao++ | Things to ignore.
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10:18 meppl guten morgen
10:24 daxim moin
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10:39 Juerd Someone (who wants to remain unnamed) proposed that feather be replaced by a professional server, so that compilation/testing of pugs and parrot would be much faster
10:40 Juerd I've started doing some calculations today, and this would cost almost 2900 euros
10:40 Juerd This would require a donation of approx 45 euros per user.
10:40 Juerd I'd like to discuss this subject
10:41 Juerd I don't know if people would be willing to donate; after all, most users do not actively use the machine, and it would still not be allowed to host personal non-perl6 projects on it.
10:41 meppl good morning daxim
10:41 Juerd On the other hand, it's a donation toward faster development of perl6 overall...
10:42 daxim Juerd, you told me it would be easy to get a commit bit
10:42 daxim well, I'm here now ;)
10:42 Juerd daxim: It is.
10:42 Juerd daxim: Ask!
10:42 daxim please may I have one?
10:42 Juerd I don't know exactly who can give you commit bits
10:42 Juerd audreyt certainly can give you one.
10:42 Juerd rafl too, IIRC
10:42 daxim http://img314.imageshack.us/my.ph​p?image=juerdautrijusrafl8ws.jpg
10:42 lambdabot Title: "ImageShack - Hosting :: juerdautrijusrafl8ws.jpg"
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10:43 Juerd heh
10:44 integral I can, if you want, I need an email address (via privmsg)
10:45 Juerd But then it's not logged for the spambots to enjoy!
10:48 integral Okay, daxim, you should receive an invitation email shortly with details on accessing openfoundry.  Feel free to add yourself to AUTHORS when you start committing.
10:48 daxim ok, email arrived already
10:59 integral hmm, is there some core module that's been core since 5.5 that uses tied filehandles?
11:03 integral err, wrong channel, sorry
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11:30 svnbot6 r11025 | daxim++ | clarified prerequisites for smoking
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13:21 * kolibrie departs for airport
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13:43 svnbot6 r11026 | fglock++ | v6.pm - more method call syntax
13:43 svnbot6 r11026 | fglock++ | moose-4.pl compiles
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14:41 sahadev examples/rules/yapc_schedule.pl uses yapc_schedule.pm, which is not found. where is it available?
14:43 svnbot6 r11027 | fglock++ | v6.pm - clear 'deep recursion' message in grammar compilation
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15:04 svnbot6 r11028 | fglock++ | v6.pm - all tests fixed; all Moose snippets compile.
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15:18 audreyt fglock++ # wow.
15:19 audreyt sahadev: sorry it is inlined
15:19 audreyt sahadev: remove the 'use' line and commit?
15:19 audreyt (also it needs a copy of e.g. http://yapcchicago.org/the-schedule/wednesday)
15:19 lambdabot Title: "YAPC::NA 2006 &raquo; Wednesday"
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15:45 * clkao found a svk bug while merging the PC-P6 change to pX/clkao
15:46 audreyt svk sucks!
15:46 audreyt maybe it should be renamed to svck
15:46 audreyt or suk
15:47 clkao module::install--
15:47 clkao Can't locate inc/Module/Install/Admin.pm in @INC (@INC contains: inc ../.. ../../inc /usr/local/lib/perl5/5.8.8/BSDPAN /usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8/mach /usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8 /usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl /usr/local/lib/perl5/5.8.8/mach /usr/local/lib/perl5/5.8.8 .) at /usr/local/lib/perl5/site_p​erl/5.8.8/Module/Install.pm line 100.
15:47 audreyt surely you killed inc/?
15:47 clkao there's no inc/ to start with
15:48 audreyt you used Module::Install::Admin?
15:48 audreyt why are you doing it?
15:49 clkao i didn't
15:49 clkao can you run makefile.pl under misc/pX/clkao/Pugs-Compiler-Perl6 ?
15:49 clkao running it removes inc
15:49 clkao i don't know why
15:50 clkao bah, the inc path in makefile.pl
15:50 clkao audreyt: also the commit-inter-* tests are noisy no
15:50 clkao now
15:51 audreyt what's commit-inter-*
15:52 clkao audreyt: svk's tests
15:52 svnbot6 r11029 | clkao++ | Correct inc when in pX.
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16:08 svnbot6 r11030 | clkao++ | pull from perl5/Pugs-Compiler-Perl6.
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16:28 audreyt fglock: hi
16:29 fglock audreyt: hi! how's the hackathon?
16:29 audreyt going very well!
16:29 audreyt diagrams!
16:29 audreyt and finally detailed fields of P6AST!
16:29 audreyt got clkao into Yapp hacking :)
16:29 fglock great - I need that!
16:29 audreyt yes, I recognize that :)
16:30 fglock yup - I saw the commits
16:30 audreyt fglock: can you compile "sub foo($x) {}; sub bar($x) {}" ?
16:30 audreyt (that was from clkao)
16:30 fglock btw, I silenced a Deep recursion in Parse::Yapp - it seems to not be a problem
16:30 fglock checking
16:31 clkao networkg being very unsable
16:32 clkao it fails on the second one for me
16:33 fglock clkao: maybe empty blocks are not defined - I will check
16:33 clkao fglock: ah, it seems so. also "..."
16:34 fglock I could not make '...' work, but I don't know what is the problem yet
16:35 fglock I think it must be classified as 'NUM' by the lexer
16:35 clkao ah!
16:40 clkao fglock: can you help looking at my parser in px/clkao? my signature can't capture no invocant and with one parameter
16:40 svnbot6 r11031 | fglock++ | v6.pm - added empty-blocks - " sub foo($x) {}; sub bar($x) {} " - reported by clkao++
16:40 fglock looking
16:42 clkao in fact i can't capture any parameter without invocant. but it works when there's none of both
16:42 svnbot6 r11032 | clkao++ | misc emitted syntax fixes.
16:43 fglock I've got a very slow computer here (tc1000 tablet) - should be 1GHz but feels like 200Mhz
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16:55 fglock_ rehi - recovering from frozen computer
16:55 clkao fglock: did the parser kill your network as well? ;)
16:56 fglock_ network, mouse & keyboard. but the screen was fine
17:02 fglock_ is it allowed to have more than one invocant?
17:03 fglock_ clkao: is there a comma between the invocant and other parameters?
17:05 clkao fglock_: no, it should be invocant ':'
17:10 fglock_ clkao: sorry, things are real slow here - no answer yet
17:11 clkao ok. fyi, just compile "sub bar1 ($z: $y,$x) { "ok" };sub bar2 ($y,$x) { "ok" };" and you'll see
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17:28 fglock_ clkao: I've got something that seems to work - will paste
17:30 fglock_ http://sial.org/pbot/18114
17:30 lambdabot Title: "Paste #18114 from "fglock" at 201.35.169.13"
17:32 frederico joined perl6
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17:39 fglock_ clkao: I'll commit
17:40 svnbot6 r11033 | fglock++ | v6.pm - parses ( $invocant: )
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17:58 fglock clkao: ping
17:59 ruoso joined perl6
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18:10 clkao i think i hate everything today
18:12 audreyt clkao: but everything has been refactored by chromatic
18:12 audreyt it should be less hateful
18:17 fglock I wonder what you are talking about
18:19 clkao audreyt: you mean everything2.com ?
18:21 fglock audreyt: v6.pm could be rewritten in p6
18:21 clkao i thought about that yesterday ;)
18:23 audreyt fglock: yeah that was part of the plan when I was in Vienna
18:23 audreyt but that makes debugging... more fun
18:23 audreyt up to you
18:25 clkao fglock: oh you fixed that. but i was more wondering about why my version didn't work.
18:25 fglock there are no tweaks to do in the Makefile, right?
18:25 fglock clkao: I don't know too :)
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18:29 fglock would someone sanity-check the compiled Moose files in perl5/Pugs-Compiler-Perl6?
18:29 fglock I'll start moving them to t/
18:34 fglock can I say 'module Main;' to finish a class declaration in p6?
18:34 audreyt if you started the file with
18:35 fglock or does it mean 'module MyClass::Main'
18:35 audreyt class Foo;
18:35 audreyt then that scopes over entire file
18:35 fglock so I have to use class Foo { ... } main...
18:39 audreyt yup
18:41 fglock use lib ('.'); - same syntax in p6?
18:43 Juerd fglock: AFAIK, but note that the parens are neither necessary nor part of the syntax.
18:43 Juerd (For both perls)
18:44 audreyt yup
18:44 fglock k
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18:52 svnbot6 r11034 | fglock++ | v6.pm - added first Moose test
18:53 fglock yay! a program in p6   a module in p6
18:53 audreyt woot!
18:54 audreyt fglock++
18:54 audreyt (bbiab)
18:58 svnbot6 r11036 | audreyt++ | * perl5
18:59 fglock perl5?
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19:02 Limbic_Region fglock - she's reinventing wheels ;-)
19:03 ruoso fglock, I'm a bit away lately... where is this last stuff you're doing... I'd like to test it...
19:09 fglock ruoso: see http://use.perl.org/~fglock/
19:09 lambdabot Title: "fglock - use Perl User"
19:10 fglock it is in CPAN - 'install v6'
19:10 fglock or perl5/Pugs-Compiler-Perl6/
19:11 fglock the CPAN version doesn't have OO yet
19:12 fglock it's a complete rewrite of lrep - only the Rules grammar was reused
19:14 fglock audreyt: I'm shy to write to pugs.blogs.com - too many people reading there :)
19:16 ruoso fglock++... the generated code is incredibly beatiful...
19:16 svnbot6 r11037 | sanug++ | Allison Randal added Punie and Tree Grammar Compilation.
19:16 svnbot6 r11037 | sanug++ | Audrey Tang added Ponie.
19:18 fglock ruoso: thanks! this is the 3rd rewrite, counting last years's pil-run
19:21 fglock ruoso: http://perlcabal.org/~audreyt/p​df/perl6_compilation-perl5.pdf
19:22 TreyHarris larry's most recent S02 change appears to be just of the version number?  or am i missing something?
19:24 TreyHarris oh, i just noticed the summary was "forgot to add versions" *sheepish*
19:24 * ruoso just happy to see all of that...
19:24 * ruoso sad for not having time to take part on it...
19:26 fglock ruoso: I don't have time either :)
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19:35 Steve_p Where might I find the most up to date info on smart matching?
19:37 TimToady Steve_p: S03
19:38 Steve_p TimToady: thanks!
19:41 Yaakov joined perl6
19:42 fglock TimToady, audreyt, pmichaud: thanks for the patience in the last few months to explain the compiler to me
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19:48 clkao fglock: now you get to explain them to me ;)
19:48 Steve_p heh
19:49 clkao fglock: you saw my todo update about test.pm right?
19:49 clkao want to finish up the capture parsing? then i can work on the emitter for calling with data::bind at the same time
19:49 fglock clkao: :) - checking
19:50 fglock clkao: what's missing in the capture?
19:51 svnbot6 r11038 | fglock++ | v6.pm - added a failing test to t/10-moose1.t
19:51 clkao it's not parsed is it?
19:51 dduncan joined perl6
19:52 clkao also CALLER::
19:53 fglock clkao: would you write some p6/ast/p5 examples in the TODO? this helps a lot to understand what I'm doing :)
19:53 Debolaz2 joined perl6
19:54 clkao sure.
19:54 frederico joined perl6
19:54 fglock thanks
19:55 clkao how to do things like caller(4) rather than CALLER::CALLER::CALLER::CALLER::.. ?
19:56 pmurias joined perl6
19:57 fglock clkao: maybe caller(4) works - pugs doesn't return an error for caller()
19:58 pmurias hi, how will one define custom type systems, and what is the default one with 'use static'?
19:59 * pmurias is reading TaPL
20:00 nothingmuch Juerd: ping
20:01 nothingmuch Juerd is een aardig heren.  Hij is ook mooi ;)
20:01 nothingmuch is that a compliment?
20:02 fglock nothingmuch: would you sanity check v6 Moose output when you have time?
20:03 nothingmuch fglock: yes, i think i'll probably look at it before dinner tonight
20:03 fglock thanks!
20:08 clkao fglock: 11-capture on the way
20:08 svnbot6 r11039 | clkao++ | simple tests for binding / capture.
20:08 nothingmuch clkao: have you played with Perl::Generate yet?
20:08 clkao nothingmuch: not yet, i don't have darcs
20:08 clkao (i am lying)
20:08 nothingmuch wget -r
20:08 nothingmuch ;-)
20:08 clkao where again?
20:08 nothingmuch i can cook up a tarball
20:08 clkao url
20:09 nothingmuch http://nothingmuch.woobling.org/Perl-Generate/
20:09 lambdabot Title: "Index of /Perl-Generate"
20:09 nothingmuch =)
20:09 clkao it's not a real module
20:09 Juerd nothingmuch: It's broken syntax :)
20:09 clkao use ok "Perl::Generate::AST::Node::Var::Scalar";
20:09 clkao you mean use_ok ?
20:09 Juerd nothingmuch: Though I think it's nice what you said. Do you know hwat you said?
20:09 miyagawa ok.pm
20:10 nothingmuch Juerd: yes, i was told it was explicitly obfuscated to not share words with english
20:11 nothingmuch clkao: it's BEGIN { use_ok } without the nasty syntax
20:11 nothingmuch audreyt++
20:11 Juerd nothingmuch: What do you mean, "share words"?
20:11 clkao it doesn't work for me
20:11 nothingmuch clkao: you need to install it =)
20:11 nothingmuch Juerd: well, like heren etc
20:11 clkao ah.
20:11 svnbot6 r11040 | audreyt++ | * inlien the "use" on yapc_schedule
20:12 clkao get a real makefile.pl
20:12 Juerd nothingmuch: Which is plural...
20:12 nothingmuch Juerd: well, it's not my fault =)
20:13 nothingmuch it was composed by the dutch speaker next to me
20:13 nothingmuch who was trying to see if i can guess my way around dutch
20:13 fglock nothingmuch: are you following p6ast.hs format?
20:13 Juerd nothingmuch: Some Dutch speaker...
20:13 nothingmuch fglock: barely
20:14 nothingmuch she says that she was deliberately making it bad, so i won't deduct her karma points ;-)
20:14 Juerd nothingmuch: If you want to guess... dan ga ik toch gewoon Nederlands tegen je lullen? Makkelijk zat, dan ontdekken we snel genoeg of je er wat van snapt :)
20:14 nothingmuch since i failed the "easy" test...
20:15 fglock nothingmuch: if we both follow p6ast, we should be able to talk to each other (without cheating, I mean)
20:15 nothingmuch fglock: okay =)
20:15 nothingmuch Juerd: she says that you just insulted us
20:15 clkao nothingmuch: should it be renamed to Perl5::Generate?
20:15 nothingmuch clkao: uh
20:15 nothingmuch maybe
20:15 Juerd nothingmuch: She's lying.
20:16 clkao also things are too long to type!
20:16 nothingmuch something about finding out if we actually understand it soon enough
20:16 nothingmuch clkao: Perl::Generate and t/99_easy.t
20:16 fglock how about Pugs::Emit::P6AST::Perl5 - this is more or less the convention we are following in the Pugs:: namespace, I think
20:16 fglock ::Emit-from-to
20:16 Juerd nothingmuch: The thing is, it's hard to translate.
20:17 nothingmuch well, remember that it is not pugs specific
20:17 nothingmuch we need it for Moose
20:17 Juerd nothingmuch: It's something like "Then how about I just talk Dutch to you? Easy enough, and we'll discover soon enough if you understand anything of it"
20:17 nothingmuch ah
20:17 Juerd The funny thing is "lullen", which is informal and bad slang for "talk", but can also translate as penises.
20:17 nothingmuch oh
20:18 nothingmuch that's the part she thought was insulting
20:18 Juerd nothingmuch: That's the turing test for "Dutch speakers"
20:18 Juerd She failed :)
20:18 nothingmuch heh
20:18 nothingmuch i'll let her know =)
20:19 nothingmuch well, clkao is
20:19 nothingmuch (she went away by now)
20:19 Juerd Only context (position in the sentence: verb versus noun) can tell which lullen it is.
20:20 nothingmuch that's a pretty evil language then
20:20 Juerd "vliegen" means both "flies"(plural noun) and "fly"(plural verb)
20:20 svnbot6 r11041 | audreyt++ | * p6ast - thru to exp
20:20 Juerd "als achter vliegen vliegen vliegen, vliegen vliegen vliegen achterna"
20:20 Juerd Which is more or less: if flies fly behind flies, then flies are in pursuit of flies.
20:21 Juerd Highly contrived, but anyone'll understand it
20:21 nothingmuch =)
20:22 nothingmuch well, to her credit we can say that she is not a native dutch speaker
20:23 nothingmuch anyway, i think i'm going to go for a walk, and then maybe my brain will start working
20:23 Juerd Heh
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20:47 svnbot6 r11042 | pmurias++ | the implementation of ruby style quoting in perl5 eq. #{$var} and #{expr}
20:47 svnbot6 r11042 | pmurias++ | will add Devel::LexAlias support for #{expr},and better parsing of nested {} later
20:49 pmurias fglock: wrote a basic implementation of ruby style quoting
20:49 fglock pmurias: looking
20:50 fglock pmurias: btw, nothingmuch is writing a new emitter - see http://nothingmuch.woobling.org/Perl-Generate/
20:50 lambdabot Title: "Index of /Perl-Generate"
20:50 pmurias seen it
20:50 jabbot pmurias: I havn't seen it, pmurias
20:50 fglock :)
20:53 fglock pmurias: cool
20:57 pmurias it could be turned into a paraquasiquote, using PPI for syntax checking, automatic Perl-Generate and PPI ast stringification etc.
20:57 pmurias i'll do some assorted reading and sleeping now
20:57 pmurias g'night
21:01 fglock 1 result in google for 'paraquasiquote'
21:10 fglock clkao: the parse looks right in t/11-capture.t, except for :a<foo>, which it thinks is a call
21:11 fglock it should pair('a','foo'), right?
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21:17 svnbot6 r11043 | fglock++ | v6.pm - Grammar/Term - fixed pair syntax
21:22 coumbes joined perl6
21:22 svnbot6 r11044 | fglock++ | v6.pm - t/11-capture.t cleanup
21:25 svnbot6 r11045 | fglock++ | v6.pm - TODO update
21:26 JimKraj joined perl6
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21:36 putter joined perl6
21:36 fglock joined perl6
21:37 fglock putter: hi!
21:37 putter I'm about to send of an email, attempting to take some advantage of the Boston hackathon occurring in a city with a Perl Mongers.  Like a talk(s), or a social.
21:37 putter Hi fglock :)
21:38 putter But I have little idea who is going to be in Boston.  Anyone have any ideas?
21:39 fglock I'm far far away ...
21:39 putter :)
21:40 fglock putter: did you see the v6.pm news? it's running small programs :)
21:40 Entonian joined perl6
21:41 putter Neat!
21:44 putter could someone msg me an email address for audreyt?  tnx...
21:44 putter bloody spammers... :(
21:45 fglock (audreyt) at $1 dot org
21:46 fglock later &
21:47 putter thanks :)
21:47 fglock left perl6
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22:04 nothingmuch where might one find a table of operator precedence for perl 5
22:04 nothingmuch (as code not docs)
22:07 nothingmuch B::Deparse has them inlined in the subs =(
22:23 putter toke.c?
22:24 putter (having no idea, but quickly greping a 5.9 tree)
22:25 putter and ext/B/B/Deparse.pm
22:27 putter Deparse has an actual table :)
22:29 putter &
22:29 putter left perl6
22:33 clkao in yapp, can I tell which rule in the current state took my token?
22:35 * kolibrie made it home safely
22:36 kolibrie stevan: no flooding at my house
22:36 kolibrie nothingmuch: there is one picture I did not manage to take, could you take it for me?
22:37 kolibrie in the SSV stairwell, on the third floor, looking towards the tunnel around the elevated tracks
22:38 * kolibrie returns to being with his wife and children after a week away
22:42 nothingmuch kolibrie: yay!
22:42 nothingmuch center building?
22:52 xdg joined perl6
22:58 TreyHarris TimToady: fyi, your last edit to S05 misspelled "grammar" as "gramma"
22:58 svnbot6 r11046 | Sage++ | <FH> now translates to $FH.readline. However, open() doesn't translate yet, so it's a bit out of place.
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23:32 pasteling "sanug" at 216.47.133.123 pasted "Working with chromatic on new diagram for PHEME - not posted yet" (1 line, 62B) at http://sial.org/pbot/18126
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