Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2006-07-05

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
00:03 sanug left perl6
00:06 svnbot6 r11165 | putter++ | welcome.p6: Revert r11157, which no doubt broke the livecd.
00:09 putter clkao: It's been a while since I've looked at the p5 stuff, but I'll explore.  Congratulations.
00:09 clkao putter: yay
00:18 audreyt putter: a good way to start is Class::MultiMethod::Dispatch
00:18 audreyt and extend it to support the notion of semicolons
00:18 Bit-Man joined perl6
00:18 clkao what's this semicolon notion thing?
00:19 audreyt multi f (Int $x, Int $y; $z, $w)
00:20 clkao and this Class::MultiMethod::Dispatch thing isn't on cpan
00:20 audreyt sorry
00:20 audreyt Class::MultiMethod::Pure
00:20 audreyt thinko
00:20 clkao so after ; it is... ?
00:20 audreyt it is not used for tiebreaking purposes
00:20 audreyt putter: actually
00:21 audreyt (Int $x, Int $y; Int $z, Int $w)
00:21 audreyt is as good as
00:21 audreyt (Int $x, Int $y; Any, Any)
00:21 audreyt putter: we didn't cover that
00:22 audreyt i.e. any constraints after the final semicolon is not used for voting
00:23 clkao audreyt: might worth to document that prelude.p6 requires/expects for the internal backend to implement
00:24 clkao is it christmas yet
00:24 svnbot6 r11166 | sanug++ | Renaming PHEME.html
00:26 svnbot6 r11167 | sanug++ | Renaming PHEME.jpg
00:29 audreyt putter: fixed
00:30 audreyt clkao: indeed, a rationalized "grep Pugs::Internals:::*"
00:31 tup joined perl6
00:31 svnbot6 r11168 | audreyt++ | * mmd-draft.txt - add the exception that the parameters after the final
00:31 svnbot6 r11168 | audreyt++ |   semicolon is ignored for the voting process.
00:34 rafl Why isn't the haskell module installed with 'make install' anymore?
00:36 audreyt rafl: it used to break with a per-user package.conf
00:36 putter audreyt: re CMMP, thanks.  re after final semi...
00:36 svnbot6 r11169 | rafl++ |  r168@ata:  rafl | 2006-07-05 02:37:31 +0200
00:36 svnbot6 r11169 | rafl++ |  * Fixed typos in Makefile.PL which prevented the detection of
00:36 svnbot6 r11169 | rafl++ |    {installed,parrot,null}_config.o for installed parrots.
00:36 audreyt rafl: now maybe you can uncomment the Makefile rules
00:36 clkao audreyt: do you want to do some module::compile debugging?
00:36 audreyt actively want? no. to solve your problem? sure
00:36 putter the are still checked for compatibility, yes?
00:36 audreyt yes.
00:36 clkao audreyt: yes, solve my problem
00:37 putter is there a motivating example for this feature?
00:38 rafl audreyt: It's still likely to break as the generated installed-pkg-conf or whatever it is called contains paths to the build tree which fucks things when using the system-wide haskell module if the build-dir isn't present.
00:38 audreyt multi infix:<..> (Int $x, Int $y; $by)
00:38 audreyt multi infix:<..> (Int $x, Int $y; Int $by)
00:38 audreyt putter: well, "motivating" is maybe when you think about methods
00:38 audreyt rafl: yeah.
00:39 audreyt multi bark (Dog $x; Moving $target) { ... }
00:40 audreyt multi bark (Tree $x; Layer $n) { ... }
00:40 audreyt essentially the 2nd argument for each is "incidental"
00:40 putter so we want the infix:<..> example to be an ambiguity failure why?
00:40 putter (assuming handed an int)
00:41 audreyt sorry, that was merely a typo on my part.
00:41 audreyt hm.
00:41 audreyt otoh, I can't quite see why "always an implicit semicolon at end" is bad.
00:41 audreyt TimToady: help?
00:43 audreyt putter: the relevant spec:
00:43 audreyt Sometimes you want to have parameters that aren't counted as part of the
00:43 audreyt long name.  For instance, if you want to allow an optional "step" parameter
00:43 audreyt to your range operator, but not consider it for multi dispatch, then put a
00:43 audreyt semicolon instead of a comma before it:
00:43 audreyt multi sub infix:<..>(Int $min, Int $max; Int $by = 1) {...}
00:43 audreyt The final semicolon, if any, determines the complete long name of a multi.
00:43 putter ok, pondering...
00:45 dduncan question ... does any .meta stuff work yet?
00:45 audreyt dduncan: only .meta.name
00:45 audreyt dduncan: the rest is pending The Arrival Of The Moose tomorrow
00:45 audreyt (=stevan)
00:45 dduncan so then I'll be able to say .meta.identifier.version tomorrow?
00:46 audreyt yes.
00:46 dduncan sounds good
00:46 audreyt in perl5 too.
00:46 audreyt I'll nudge stevan into releasing a new Moose with Moose::Meta::Module and Moose::Meta::Package
00:47 audreyt would be fun to express Rosetta with moose
00:47 dduncan fyi, I've decided to scale Relation back again to just a container, and not worry about subclassing at the moment ... I will also implement it out of things that work in Perl 6 and Perl 5 now, namely Hashes and Arrays ...
00:47 vsoni audrey: in PIR what is the difference b/w .lex .sym and .local
00:47 dduncan also, I expect to release a corresponding Perl 5 version on CPAN, using Moose
00:47 dduncan I will probably rename it to Set::Relation so it fits in better
00:47 dduncan how does that name sound to you?
00:48 audreyt vsoni: .sym is just .local
00:48 dduncan Rosetta will come after
00:48 audreyt dduncan: that sounds good
00:48 audreyt vsoni: .sym = .local; .lex lives on the pad, .sym does not
00:48 dduncan okay, I'm about to commit said name change now ...
00:48 putter so an f with (Int; Int) and (Int; Num) will always be ambiguous?
00:49 audreyt putter: yes, though you can always force disambig with (Int, Odd)
00:50 svnbot6 r11170 | fglock++ | v6 - simple option processing in s///
00:51 putter is (Int, Num) and (Int; Int) on (3,4) ambiguous or variant first?
00:53 svnbot6 r11171 | Darren_Duncan++ | ext/Relation/ : first step of renaming Relation to Set::Relation and otherwise reworking it
00:57 svnbot6 r11172 | Darren_Duncan++ | renamed ext/Relation/ to ext/Set-Relation/, which should be less ambiguous and fit better into CPAN
00:58 clkao gr, i don't think fglock saw my changes
00:58 audreyt putter: variant first.
00:58 audreyt (Int;Int) is as good as (Int;Any) for voting.
01:00 putter but only for the final semi, yes?
01:02 audreyt parsefail
01:02 svnbot6 r11173 | sanug++ | 11159 perl6_compilation.graffle has now had each file exported to the perl6_compilation directory
01:02 svnbot6 r11173 | sanug++ | Added specific steps for Perl 6 pugs flow and Allison Randal's Parrot targets with specifics on future, present, and past languages.
01:05 putter in a signature with multiple semis, the final semi means something somewhat different than the others.
01:07 hikozaemon joined perl6
01:09 putter a thought question might be "if we were using manhattan rather than second-to-none-everywhere to combine individual parameter distances, what would ; mean then?".
01:10 putter I'm am starting to be tempted to walk the design decision path just to get a better idea what the space looks like.
01:11 audreyt nod.
01:11 putter Or even better, look at a list of objectives, if there is one.
01:12 svnbot6 r11174 | rafl++ |  r175@ata:  rafl | 2006-07-05 03:11:42 +0200
01:12 svnbot6 r11174 | rafl++ |  * Only use rpath if the build dir where the rpath points to really exists.
01:12 svnbot6 r11174 | rafl++ |  r176@ata:  rafl | 2006-07-05 03:12:51 +0200
01:12 svnbot6 r11174 | rafl++ |  * Some debian/ updates towards 6.2.12 packages.
01:12 svnbot6 r11174 | rafl++ |  r177@ata:  rafl | 2006-07-05 03:14:25 +0200
01:12 svnbot6 r11174 | rafl++ |  * Remove some obsolete files in debian/.
01:14 sanug joined perl6
01:14 putter we have a story for individual parameter type distances, and one for how to combine them.  we want to introduce inhomogeneities into the latter.
01:16 audreyt putter: have you committed v6-**?
01:17 putter oh, as an aside: might the second-to-none result in a "chase to the bottom"?  authors narrowing their types to escape ambiguity, which creates ambiguity for others, who then...  I haven't thought it through, but the possibility came to mind.
01:19 putter no.  there was a note in t/README that the #! lines in test files help Test::Harness and prove.  so I'm off doing a full regression, which takes an hour or two.
01:20 putter I could decouple the changes if you like?  (hmm, probably should have done that the minute I hit the issue.  ah well).
01:21 ludan joined perl6
01:23 putter If yanking the #!'s from test files proves problematic, then the usefulness of use v6-** diminishes.
01:28 putter sigh.  build goes boom.  Cannot import `Data.ByteString': it was found in multiple packages: pugs-fps-0.7 fps-0.7 (imported from src/Pugs/AST/Internals/Instances.hs)
01:31 nothingmuch Perl::Generate dillema:
01:31 nothingmuch i have the subcall node
01:31 nothingmuch which is basically invoke as closure
01:32 nothingmuch it takes a code like thing (an expression) and optional args
01:32 nothingmuch if the expression is a bareword there is no ->
01:32 nothingmuch otherwise that stuff will be added
01:34 * putter is unsure what "that stuff" is, but nods encouragingly...
01:34 nothingmuch anyway
01:34 nothingmuch i need a name for the type of the code thing
01:34 nothingmuch because Strs can coerce into barewords for that
01:34 nothingmuch Perl::Generate::AST::Node::Invokable? (ambig)
01:35 nothingmuch Node::Codeifyable? (sucks)
01:35 nothingmuch just Node::Bareword|Node::Expr ?
01:35 nothingmuch (which is redundant, because Node::Bareword does Node::Expr
01:38 putter so... the thing is a code or bareword?
01:38 svnbot6 r11175 | Darren_Duncan++ | ext/Set-Relation/ : rewrote part of the DESCRIPTION in Relation.pm to indicate the new focus and direction of this module
01:38 putter Node::CodeOrBareword?
01:39 putter almost end of day for me I think.
01:39 nothingmuch putter: hmm
01:39 nothingmuch putter: good night
01:40 nothingmuch btw, are you hackathoning with us tomorrow or later?
01:41 svnbot6 r11176 | fglock++ | v6 - rule/token/regex placeholders in parser
01:43 putter yes tomorrow, and also later, for some value of later.
01:44 nothingmuch were you here yesterday
01:44 nothingmuch i only met spinclad
01:44 putter I unfortunately do not have mobile computes, but I'm only a few minutes away, so will deal.
01:45 scook0 joined perl6
01:45 putter yes.  I was mostly in the other room, with audrey, gaal, and later spinclad.
01:45 nothingmuch okay
01:46 nothingmuch i thought i saw someone but was unsure
01:46 nothingmuch i mostly had my earphones on, and was being distracted
01:46 ivanfrey joined perl6
01:47 putter I stepped in briefly to say hi, but didn't want to stomp on the non-hackathon work in progress, so it was low profile.  I look forward to seeing you and knowing I've seen you. ;)
01:47 nothingmuch likewise =)
01:47 * nothingmuch is not sure who is more insane
01:47 nothingmuch syd barret or ingy
01:48 putter any idea what time show starts?
01:48 nothingmuch fireworks?
01:48 ivanfrey Please forgive my ignorance but since I attended Damian's talk here in Toronto on Monday, I'm keenly interested in running pugs.
01:48 putter hopefully not, though that might be interesting.  the hackathon tomorrow.
01:49 putter ivanfrey: welcome.  let's see, do we have a page on download instr... oh, we just did a release, neat, one sec.
01:50 nothingmuch putter: probably ~10ish
01:50 putter ivanfrey:  http://pugs.blogs.com/  has a download link.
01:50 nothingmuch maybe a little later
01:50 nothingmuch yesterday we started at around that time
01:50 nothingmuch but today wake up times varied from 8-somethingish to 13:00
01:51 putter nothingmuch: thanks :)
01:51 obra tomorrow, I need to be home from 8 - 12
01:51 obra y'all are welcome to head toward the office earlier
01:52 putter ivanfrey: after you download the http://search.cpan.org/dist/Perl6-Pugs-6.2.12/ release, there is a README and an INSTALL.
01:52 obra but non-bps hackathoners should make sure someone you know will be in the office before heading there.
01:52 lambdabot Title: "&#9786;&#21776;&#40179;&#9787; / Perl6-Pugs-6.2.12 - search.cpan.org"
01:52 ivanfrey Only problem is that when I tried to install the latest binary build of pugs on my PowerBook G4 running Mac OS 10.3.9 it was looking for a libperl.dylib that didn't exist on my system. I will check this link you've just posted.
01:52 obra surprising the office staff would be a not-good thing
01:53 nothingmuch what if we surprise them with party hats?
01:53 sanug left perl6
01:55 clkao audreyt++ # fixing module::compile madness
01:55 clkao putter: are you changing the tests? i can't wait to hook things up
01:56 ivanfrey putter: ok, I've already downloaded the source code. I was just checking to see if I could at all possibly avoid compiling, ;-)
01:57 putter ivanfrey: oh, curious.  hmm, in about 14 hours there will be more people here, and thus greater potential for help.  I'm not sure anyone mac-ish is here at the momemnt.
01:57 putter ivanfrey:  right. :)
01:59 svnbot6 r11177 | audreyt++ | * revert fglock++'s last patch on Term because clkao claims that he had
01:59 svnbot6 r11177 | audreyt++ |   it fixed already in a previous commit in a different way.
02:00 putter clkao: hit a snag, delayed until tomorrow.  sorry.  t/README says the test #!'s help Test::Harness and prove, so I was going to run a full regression test.  But pugs HEAD doesnt build at the moment.
02:01 ivanfrey putter: sure, I'll wait. After all I haven't seen a more enthusiastic advocate for a language than Damian.
02:01 putter Would use the release to test, but out of time for today.   Need a diff so you can play this evening?
02:02 nothingmuch clkao: ping
02:02 clkao nothingmuch: pong
02:02 svnbot6 r11178 | audreyt++ | * "use v6" now handles "use Test" without preloading the Perl5-land
02:02 svnbot6 r11178 | audreyt++ |   "Test.pm", as we handle all block-rolling ourselves and refuse to
02:02 svnbot6 r11178 | audreyt++ |   play with any Perl5-based Module::Compile precompilers "use"d within
02:02 svnbot6 r11178 | audreyt++ |   this scope -- because our "use" doesn't mean the Perl5 "use" anyway.
02:02 svnbot6 r11178 | audreyt++ | * With this commit, this now works:
02:02 svnbot6 r11178 | audreyt++ |     % cd pugs/perl5/Pugs-Compiler-Perl6
02:02 clkao nothingmuch: sighungry
02:02 svnbot6 r11178 | audreyt++ |     % export PERL6LIB=../../ext/Test/lib
02:02 svnbot6 r11178 | audreyt++ |     % perl -Ilib t/08-test.t
02:02 svnbot6 r11178 | audreyt++ | * We now complete 01-sanity/.  All tests pass.
02:02 nothingmuch clkao: where's my v6 Test.pm with commented ugliness?
02:03 clkao nothingmuch: commented? not yet.
02:03 nothingmuch ;-)
02:03 nothingmuch it can be incremental
02:03 nothingmuch subetha?
02:03 nothingmuch oh wait, you don't use os
02:03 nothingmuch x
02:04 clkao audreyt: Use of uninitialized value in split at t/13-match.t line 5.
02:04 clkao only in the first compile
02:04 putter good night all &
02:04 nothingmuch good night putter
02:04 audreyt clkao: I see that
02:05 vsoni audreyt: Saw your email response for PIR :)
02:05 audreyt vsoni: hi.
02:05 svnbot6 r11179 | audreyt++ | * don't warn when PERL6LIB is set to zero
02:06 audreyt vsoni: well, allison's point is well-taken; if PIR wants to be mixed-interleaved-compilation with full side effects -- which is to say, like Perl 5 and only Perl 5 -- I'm fine with that
02:06 audreyt I think it will make static analysis of .pir impossible, but allison also said she'll be okay with that.
02:06 audreyt so, I consider my job done :)
02:07 audreyt (and it'd be nice if you can proceed with submitting the remove-statics and hook-with-exceptions subtickets)
02:07 vsoni I agree......IMCC should be used to target other backends too.....
02:08 vsoni How bout running PERL on .net or JVM
02:08 vsoni A retargettable IMCC might come in handy
02:09 vsoni I will start working on the tickets......and keep you posted on progress
02:09 vsoni Audreyt: Let me know if you run into any other problems with IMCC in the mean time.
02:13 audreyt okay.
02:13 audreyt (I've posted (hopefully final) followup to allison)
02:14 audreyt <- learned to avoid any technical -- well, any kind of -- arguments with allison
02:14 clkao doh :$depends is not working yet. that means depends => $depends right?
02:14 clkao or has that changed?
02:14 audreyt clkao: yes
02:16 clkao is there :@foo as well?
02:17 audreyt yes.
02:19 ivanfrey Anybody have pugs running on Mac OS 10.3.9?
02:19 audreyt not that I know of...
02:19 audreyt what error are you running into?
02:20 clkao audreyt: wait, it's depends => $depends or depends => 'depends' ?
02:20 audreyt depends => $depends
02:23 ivanfrey audreyt: All kinds of errors, with the latest binary builds from http://www.unobe.com/packages/, compiling pugs. I'm running into a real dog's breakfast.
02:23 lambdabot Title: "Index of /packages/"
02:24 audreyt ivanfrey: uhm, how about don't use binary build
02:24 audreyt and try getting a build of GHC?
02:24 audreyt http://haskell.org/ghc/dow​nload_ghc_641.html#macosx
02:24 lambdabot Title: "GHC: Download version 6.4.1"
02:26 clkao audreyt: Use of uninitialized value in string eq at lib/v6.pm line 41.
02:27 ivanfrey audreyt: yeah, i've installed GHC 6.4.1. But when I go to compile pugs, no runnable GHC found. Hmmm, I'm sure there's some option which will help me set the GHC folder.
02:28 ivanfrey audreyt: oops my bad there it is in INSTALL.
02:29 * nothingmuch needs a pair programming buddy
02:29 nothingmuch motivational problems
02:30 nothingmuch any volunteers?
02:30 nothingmuch Perl::Generate semantics for operators
02:33 audreyt clkao: fixed
02:34 nothingmuch audreyt.find( :item<minion>, for => $?SELF );
02:35 svnbot6 r11180 | audreyt++ | * more warning avoidance
02:46 kanru joined perl6
02:50 ivanfrey Could not find module `Data.ByteString':
02:50 ivanfrey  use -v to see a list of the files searched for
02:50 ivanfrey  (imported from src/Pugs/AST/Internals/Instances.hs)
02:50 ivanfrey Build failed: 256 at util/build_pugs.pl line 120.
02:50 ivanfrey make: *** [pugs] Error 2
02:50 ivanfrey This is getting painful.
02:50 audreyt hm.
02:51 audreyt this is GHC 6.4.1, on the release tarball?
02:51 audreyt is it possible for you to try svn checkout http://svn.openfoundry.org/pugs/ and see if it works?
02:51 lambdabot Title: "Revision 11075: /"
02:51 audreyt I apologize for the pain. GHC641+OSX10.3 is as of yet an untested combination
02:53 ivanfrey audreyt: This might not have anything to do with GHC or does it?
02:54 audreyt ivanfrey: actually I'm pretty sure it does. GHC 6.4.1 ships with an older version of the Cabal library
02:54 audreyt which is the likely cause of this problem
02:55 audreyt rafl has checked in an alternative way of building this
02:55 audreyt in the pugs svn trunk
02:55 audreyt and so it maybe possible that it can be built easier that way
02:55 audreyt alternatively, if this is the release tarball
02:55 audreyt you can try
02:55 audreyt cd third-party/fps ; ../../Setup configure ; ../../Setup build ; sudo ../../Setup install
02:56 audreyt and then cd ../../ ; make
02:56 audreyt and see if it now works.
02:57 ivanfrey audreyt: ok, I'll try the alternative.
03:05 shachaf joined perl6
03:08 shachaf joined perl6
03:12 weinig|away is now known as weinig
03:12 ivanfrey audreyt: the alternative wasn't going to work because ghc wasn't in my PATH (/usr/local/bin/ghc).  So I stuck it on my path. I now suspect that if I had done this from the beginning I wouldn't have gotten my last error. I'm still building, btw.
03:12 audreyt okay.
03:13 audreyt it might be very possible that is the problem.
03:13 svnbot6 r11181 | audreyt++ | * perl6_compilation.graffle - "Ponie 2.0" is not actively
03:13 svnbot6 r11181 | audreyt++ |   developing -- it's planned for the future.  Pirate
03:13 svnbot6 r11181 | audreyt++ |   (Python on Parrot) is not dead; the list is active as
03:13 svnbot6 r11181 | audreyt++ |   of June 25th; it seems just that they've branched the
03:13 svnbot6 r11181 | audreyt++ |   Parrot tree to avoid the churn.
03:13 unobe ivanfrey: are you on panther or tiger?
03:13 unobe cog tried to do install the latest images and it didn't work for him on panther
03:13 ivanfrey unobe: panther (10.3.9)
03:13 unobe hmmm..thought so
03:14 ivanfrey ubobe: You're the one who does the parrot and pug binary builds?
03:14 unobe apparently the linked libraries are different, so the images I made won't work (unless I can figure out what dependencies are needed)
03:15 nothingmuch hola unobe
03:15 unobe well, the ones on unobe.com/packages anyway
03:15 unobe hey nothingmuch
03:15 unobe you still in boston?
03:15 nothingmuch yep
03:15 * nothingmuch is learning how to be an american couch potato
03:15 nothingmuch beer + sitting
03:15 nothingmuch no tv yet though
03:15 nothingmuch that's the advanced course
03:15 unobe hehe, welcome to the club :-)
03:16 unobe how many days until you graduate to the advanced course?
03:16 nothingmuch i dunno
03:16 nothingmuch but clkao is a bad influence on my studies
03:16 nothingmuch we're going camping tomorrow
03:16 nothingmuch well, s/camping/hiking/ really
03:17 unobe ivanfrey: i still have panther, so I'll try to install it on my laptop, and build an image for panther later this weel
03:17 unobe s/weel/week/
03:17 nothingmuch ooh! food
03:17 unobe ah sweet!
03:17 weinig is now known as weinig|sleeping
03:17 unobe which mountain range are you doing again?
03:18 unobe ivanfrey: or you can tell me what libraries, and I can see if just copying them over to your comp will work for now.
03:19 unobe from what i remember, they were just newer versions of libraries, so i think they can co-exist with the ones already present on panther
03:24 ivanfrey unobe: wait a sec, i'm on the phone.
03:25 unobe k
03:26 stevan joined perl6
03:29 clkao sb end
03:30 unobe clkao: i just switched to irssi :-)
03:30 svnbot6 r11182 | clkao++ | Parse :$foo, which is a pair foo => $foo.
03:32 unobe i love /sb command, which, with my little knowledge of ircii, wasn't available in ircii
03:32 sanug joined perl6
03:32 audreyt what does /sb do?
03:32 audreyt sanug: yeah :)
03:33 sanug Over here now ... newbie on irc - you were first reason for me to learn...
03:33 unobe audreyt: scrollback
03:34 unobe so /sb home goes to the start of the session, /sb goto HH:MM:SS goes to a certain time in the past, and /sb end goes to the end
03:35 sanug What about the Main.p6 and CGI.p6 examples - those would seem unlikely candidates - yes?
03:35 nothingmuch_ joined perl6
03:36 ivanfrey unobe: sorry 'bout that but the phone rang. I'm building pugs right now but I don't know what I'm going to get because I had lot of configure statements that said this was missing and that was missing and what not. Anyhow I tried to get the build I downloaded from your site running by searching for libperl.dylib and putting that where the build expected to find it. Bad idea because it just wasn't the right version
03:36 nothingmuch_ clkao++; # great food
03:36 nothingmuch_ nothingmuch: you need your modem fixed
03:36 audreyt sanug: unlikely candidates?
03:37 unobe oh wow! i just typed /help scrollback and the other stuff i didn't know about: clear, status, redraw
03:37 clkao nothingmuch_: glad you like it ;)
03:37 sanug Would CGI.pm build to javaScript?
03:37 unobe sweetness.
03:37 audreyt sanug: why would it not?
03:37 audreyt sanug: it involves no disk access
03:38 audreyt so persumably you can write a web server in javascript with it
03:38 audreyt and in fact, someone did that with javascript
03:38 sanug audreyt: the mind reels - I am still getting my head around this...
03:39 audreyt but well, Test.pm is a more neutral target
03:39 audreyt and you can s/CGI.pm/Test.pm/g with not much effort
03:40 clkao audreyt: help me get pc-p6 use lib ext/test/lib for make test ;0
03:40 sanug audreyt: Also the virtual machine on the left of the Perl6 to JavaScript - We would be using Parrot - or something else?
03:40 sanug audreyt: s/left/right/
03:41 clkao is it almost christmas?
03:41 * nothingmuch_ needs better minion locators
03:41 unobe ivanfrey: hmm...if i remember correctly, a new version of libncurses was needed
03:41 ivanfrey unobe: my build just failed. just hold on a sec while I'll post the error.
03:41 unobe you didn't have a problem with that?
03:42 unobe k
03:42 ivanfrey Compiling Pugs             ( src/Pugs.hs, dist/build/src/Pugs.o )
03:42 ivanfrey ar: creating archive dist/build/libHSPugs-6.2.12.a
03:42 ivanfrey *** Building: /usr/local/bin/ghc -hide-all-packages -package stm -package network -package mtl -package template-haskell -package base -package pugs-fps -package pugs-HsSyck -package unix -idist/build -Ldist/build -idist/build/src -Ldist/build/src -o pugs src/Main.hs -lHSPugs-6.2.12 -threaded
03:42 ivanfrey ld: archive: /Users/ivanfrey/Downloads/Perl6-Pugs-6.2.12/di​st/lib/pugs-HsSyck-0.1/libHSpugs-HsSyck-0.1.a has no table of contents, add one with ranlib(1) (can't load from it)
03:42 ivanfrey ld: archive: /Users/ivanfrey/Downloads/Perl6-Pugs-6.2.12​/dist/lib/pugs-fps-0.7/libHSpugs-fps-0.7.a has no table of contents, add one with ranlib(1) (can't load from it)
03:43 ivanfrey Build failed: 256 at util/build_pugs.pl line 217.
03:43 ivanfrey make: *** [pugs] Error 2
03:44 audreyt sudo ranlib /Users/ivanfrey/Downloads/Per​l6-Pugs-6.2.12/dist/lib/*/*.a
03:44 audreyt and then "make"
03:45 svnbot6 r11183 | clkao++ | don't skip when test failed to run.  This depends on audreyt++'s fix
03:45 svnbot6 r11183 | clkao++ | for make test to set PERL6LIB to ext/Test/lib to work.
03:47 * nothingmuch_ is slowly discovering that types in Perl 6 are going to be much more useful than for just self documenting code and safety and speed
03:47 nothingmuch_ but in fact brevity too
03:48 audreyt ivanfrey: does that work?
03:49 clkao nothingmuch_: now you discover...
03:49 audreyt clkao: there you go.
03:49 nothingmuch_ clkao: i never thought i'd use coercions as much as I do now
03:49 nothingmuch_ and how much they actually help ergonomics
03:50 clkao nothingmuch_: you need more beer to understand many things
03:50 svnbot6 r11184 | audreyt++ | * Pugs-Compiler-Perl6 - Makefile.PL: Add PERL6LIB as requested by clkao
03:50 svnbot6 r11184 | audreyt++ |   so that the 08-test.t always passes.
03:50 clkao audreyt: yay
03:51 clkao so requestor doesn't get ++ on the comment log ;)
03:51 nothingmuch_ clkao: actually the beer is at the stage where it's slowing me down
03:51 clkao orz
03:51 clkao system($^X, '-p', '-i.old', '-e', 's,PERL_DL_NONLAZY=1,PERL6​LIB=../../ext/Test/lib,g', 'Makefile');
03:52 ivanfrey audreyt, unobe: well my build just failed, but for some other reason. But before I proceed further I have Perl installed via Fink in /sw/bin/perl and the build scripts are finding this version of Perl presumably because it's in my path. Is this bad?
03:53 unobe ivanfrey: export PATH:/usr/bin:$PATH
03:53 unobe the perl that comes with 10.3.9 should be fine
03:54 justatheory joined perl6
03:54 unobe oops. s/export PATH:/export PATH=/
03:57 MenTaLguY joined perl6
03:59 ivanfrey Could not find module `Data.Yaml.Syck':
03:59 ivanfrey  use -v to see a list of the files searched for
03:59 ivanfrey  (imported from src/Pugs/AST/Internals/Instances.hs)
03:59 ivanfrey Build failed: 256 at util/build_pugs.pl line 120.
03:59 ivanfrey make: *** [pugs] Error 2
03:59 ivanfrey I fixed PATH, but I'm getting this error now.
03:59 clkao audreyt: btw 10moose isnt compiling moose1.pm at all
03:59 clkao weird
04:01 sanug audreyt: re: perl6_compile: Page on  Perl 6 on Perl 6 - is it still a pretty printer as stated in the plan or now more advanced?
04:01 unobe ivanfrey: sometimes i've gotten that error. try running make again
04:02 audreyt ivanfrey: try the alternative path:
04:02 audreyt cd third-party/HsSyck/ ; ../../Setup configure ; ../../Setup build ; sudo ../../Setup instal
04:02 unobe or even ./configure again
04:02 audreyt cd third-party/HsSyck/ ; ../../Setup configure ; ../../Setup build ; sudo ../../Setup install
04:02 audreyt and then go back to "make"
04:02 audreyt on the toplevel
04:05 audreyt clkao, fglock: t/10-moose1.t fails here - known? or do I have an old moose?
04:05 clkao audreyt: no, it's not compiling moose1.pm at all
04:05 clkao i suspect something module-compile-y
04:05 clkao nothingmuch_: we should book the car
04:06 nothingmuch_ clkao: could you do that?
04:06 ivanfrey audreyt: in the ../../Setup build step there is a
04:06 nothingmuch_ i'm really not sure which you prefer
04:06 clkao nothingmuch_: i don't care
04:07 nothingmuch_ i'd say we should pick it up at 19:00 and return it at 23:00
04:07 clkao as long as we don't have to go all the way to the airport
04:07 nothingmuch_ i thought you had various milage deals
04:07 clkao don't seem to worth it
04:08 nothingmuch_ what's jesse's address?
04:08 nothingmuch_ Ibbetson?
04:08 nothingmuch_ 23
04:08 nothingmuch_ nevermind
04:08 ivanfrey Argggg pressed return by mistake ... is a "ar: creating archive dist/build/libHSpugs-HsSyck-0.1.a" statement. Should I run ranlib on this file?
04:08 audreyt yes.
04:08 audreyt with sudo if needed
04:09 audreyt I think GHC 6.4.1 doesn't know about OSX needing to run ranlib
04:10 ivanfrey audreyt: GHC 6.4.2 is coming soon for Mac OS X. Do you think it's worth reporting this bug to them? Is it a bug?
04:11 vsoni audreyt: Any good sites to learn Haskell
04:12 audreyt ivanfrey: it is a bug, and I believe it's fixed; if you want to check, you can finish building pugs first
04:12 audreyt and upgrade your Cabal
04:12 nothingmuch_ clkao: herz at $125
04:12 audreyt and see if it's indeed fixed
04:12 nothingmuch_ pick up at 17:00
04:12 nothingmuch_ drop off at 11pm friday
04:13 nothingmuch_ .1 miles from jesse's house
04:13 audreyt Cabal 1.1.4 is available from http://haskell.org/cabal/download.html
04:13 nothingmuch_ hyundai accent
04:13 lambdabot Title: "The Haskell Cabal"
04:13 audreyt vsoni: check out the READTHEM file in pugs.
04:14 nothingmuch_ we can upgrade it for $5 to a midsize chevy
04:14 nothingmuch_ err, $7
04:14 nothingmuch_ or for $24 to a ford taurus
04:14 nothingmuch_ i don't think that's necessary, right?
04:16 nothingmuch_ ugh
04:16 nothingmuch_ it doesn't support .il for phone numbers
04:16 nothingmuch_ clkao: please do the reg yourself
04:16 nothingmuch_ i have the page open
04:16 clkao coming
04:18 sanug joined perl6
04:19 audreyt ivanfrey: once you've got this working, please run util/package-osx.pl
04:20 audreyt unobe: do we have a build for 6.2.12-release?
04:20 audreyt for 10.4 powerpc
04:20 audreyt ivanfrey: so other people can get a binary installation without having to download or dance with ghc
04:20 guaumiau joined perl6
04:22 clkao audreyt: oh the use lib is translated bad. fixing
04:23 ivanfrey audreyt: when I saw Damian's code examples, he was running pugs on Tiger I believe. Anyhow I've successfully built it. Just need to install it I guess, but wait there is a make test step.
04:24 audreyt ivanfrey: G4 CPU?
04:24 unobe audreyt: not yet. i remember some of the smoke tests were failing, and had uploaded the smoke report: http://xrl.us/oear
04:24 audreyt on single CPU G4, depending on memory, the test can take up to 3 hours.
04:24 lambdabot Title: "TAP Matrix - Tue Jun 27 22:41:20 2006 GMT"
04:25 audreyt unobe: right, but those are embparrot tests, no?
04:25 unobe ahhh...right. sorry bout that. i'm rebuilding as we speak.
04:25 audreyt ivanfrey: you can ensure that Pugs is basically sane by running
04:25 ivanfrey audreyt: mine's a G4, I don't know about Damian's.
04:25 unobe err...type
04:25 audreyt env PERL_HARNESS=./pugs prove t/01-sanity/*.t
04:26 audreyt if that passes, "sudo make install" and run the package script in utils should work
04:26 ivanfrey audreyt: Oh, you were talking about mine.
04:26 audreyt yeah
04:26 audreyt if you are going to run "make test", maybe download Bundle::Pugs::SmokeKit from CPAN first
04:26 audreyt and run a "make smoke upload-smoke" instead
04:27 audreyt so that other people can see the smoke test results
04:27 MenTaLguY left perl6
04:28 unobe ivanfrey, audreyt: PREFIX, as far as I knew, wasn't working, so I had changed the Makefile.PL to install to /usr/local
04:28 audreyt ivanfrey: ivan dot frey at utronto dot ca?
04:28 audreyt unobe: yeah, rafl subsequently fixed that on trunk
04:28 unobe ah sweet
04:28 audreyt so maybe try trunk again?
04:29 audreyt rafl however havn't uncommented the "copy" lines from Makefile.PL so Pugs still wouldn't install as GHC libraries
04:29 ivanfrey audreyt: utoronto
04:29 audreyt ivanfrey: right. a commit bit is on its way to you
04:29 audreyt you can checkin http://svn.openfoundry.org/pugs/ using that usernamd/passwd and with subversion
04:29 lambdabot Title: "Revision 11075: /"
04:29 merlyn joined perl6
04:30 merlyn in the current "v6.pm" in the cpan - Can't locate inc/Module/Install/Admin.pm in @INC
04:30 * merlyn sighs
04:30 nothingmuch_ oi, bad make dist
04:30 audreyt merlyn: fixing
04:30 audreyt merlyn: fixed
04:30 audreyt reuploading
04:30 frederico joined perl6
04:31 ivanfrey audreyt:  please excuse my ignorance, but what's a commit bit?
04:31 merlyn 12.5 cents, same as in town. :)
04:31 merlyn sorry, old joke, bad joke
04:32 nothingmuch_ ivanfrey: the ability to check in code
04:32 nothingmuch_ a user in the SVN server
04:32 nothingmuch_ ivanfrey: if you have an email we can give you one
04:33 audreyt nothingmuch_: I already gave him one.
04:33 nothingmuch_ oh
04:33 audreyt ivanfrey: it is the login to write access to the pugs source repository with subversion
04:34 clkao audreyt: 10moose now passes. but if you see moose1.pmc, it's doing the wrong thing having the use lib for PERL6LIB - because it thinks itself being main, before it actually turned into "class main'
04:34 svnbot6 r11185 | clkao++ | Make 10-moose pass - emitting import list for use lib.
04:35 clkao audreyt: same thing for test.pmc
04:35 audreyt k
04:35 audreyt fglock: I'll rename v6-pugs to v6 in dist
04:36 audreyt fglock: also I wonder if it's okay to rename perl5/Pugs-Compiler-Perl6/ to perl5/v6/
04:36 audreyt to save typing and all
04:38 clkao mmm
04:40 svnbot6 r11186 | audreyt++ | * "use v6-pugs" is now "use v6-**" for neutrality.
04:41 ivanfrey audreyt: do I have to run make install and /util/whatever before I run make smoke upload-smoke?
04:41 mdiep joined perl6
04:41 audreyt no.
04:43 audreyt TimToady: "use v6-**" triggers -w
04:43 audreyt rather unfortunate
04:43 clkao :(
04:44 audreyt Argument "*main::*" isn't numeric in negation (-) at -e line 1.
04:45 clkao audreyt: 08-test.t no longer works
04:45 audreyt due to ** ?
04:46 ivanfrey audreyt: ok, the prerequisites of Bundle::Pugs::SmokeKit are Perl 5.6.1 or 5.8.3 whereas the Perl that comes with 10.3.9 is 5.8.1. This might be a problem.
04:46 clkao audreyt: ya :/ i don't know why
04:47 audreyt ivanfrey: oh?
04:47 audreyt hm.
04:47 audreyt where is such a prepreq decled?
04:48 ivanfrey audreyt: in the pod for this module.
04:48 audreyt aha.
04:48 audreyt nothingmuch_: your doing?
04:49 ivanfrey audreyt: oh sorry, I've misread the pod.
04:49 svnbot6 r11187 | sanug++ | Moving pugs/docs/perl6_compilation.pdf to perl6_compilation with the HTML and JPEG files
04:50 ivanfrey audreyt:  it actually refers to Perl6::Pugs
04:50 audreyt clkao: fixed
04:51 nothingmuch_ audreyt: what did I do?
04:51 audreyt nothingmuch_: nothing much
04:51 audreyt sorry, false alarm
04:51 nothingmuch_ WHAT HAPPEN?
04:51 clkao whhot
04:51 nothingmuch_ SOMEBODY SET UP US THE BOMB
04:51 audreyt ok. now let's think about this ** business.
04:51 svnbot6 r11188 | audreyt++ | * Pugs::Grammar::Term - parse "use v6-**" as valid.
04:52 audreyt it seems that -_ and -() and -0 and -any and -Any and -pugs are valid
04:53 audreyt since -bareword and -digit works
04:54 audreyt hm, what to do what to do.
04:55 audreyt oh well, it can always wait another day. releasing as v6-pugs.
04:57 audreyt clkao: give us a Data::Bind without underscore please?
04:57 svnbot6 r11189 | sanug++ | Updated Perl 6 on JavaScript page to correct title
04:57 audreyt (can't release this on CPAN with an underscore dep)
04:57 clkao :/
04:57 clkao should we do v6 release?
04:58 clkao audreyt: also 08 might want to skip if there's no ../../ext/Test
04:58 audreyt clkao: also you actually require 0.09 of Devel::Caller
04:58 audreyt and also test::exception
04:58 svnbot6 r11190 | audreyt++ | * revert v6-** back to v6-pugs because, well, ** triggers perl -w,
04:58 svnbot6 r11190 | audreyt++ |   and "make test" uses -w.
04:58 audreyt so register them and release D::B?
04:58 audreyt I'll get v6 packed up with a t/Test.pm in it
04:59 clkao sounds good
05:00 clkao uploaded
05:00 svnbot6 r11191 | audreyt++ | * update dependencies. this be v6.pm 0.004.
05:00 svnbot6 r11192 | audreyt++ | * This be v6, 0.0004.
05:00 vsoni left perl6
05:02 sanug left perl6
05:02 svnbot6 r11193 | clkao++ | Data-Bind 0.25
05:03 nothingmuch joined perl6
05:03 clkao audreyt: bah, you didn't make the test.pm
05:03 audreyt clkao: huh?
05:04 clkao 05:58 < audreyt> I'll get v6 packed up with a t/Test.pm in it
05:04 audreyt yes?
05:05 clkao but you release 004 without it ?
05:08 audreyt 005 :)
05:08 svnbot6 r11194 | audreyt++ | * v6 0.0005 to fix ChangeLog and mispackaging
05:09 clkao butstill no t/Test.pm ?
05:09 audreyt no way
05:10 audreyt I didn't check it in doesn't mean it's not in the pkg
05:10 audreyt :)
05:10 clkao is it in the manifest? ;)
05:10 audreyt merlyn: give the new Data::Bind and v6 a try?
05:10 audreyt why, it is
05:10 clkao intersting
05:11 audreyt merlyn: check pause incoming
05:14 audreyt clkao: I'm getting
05:14 audreyt t/07-tailcall......Use of uninitialized value in concatenation (.) or string at /Users/audreyt/tmp/v6-pugs-0.005/bl​ib/lib/Pugs/Emitter/Perl6/Perl5.pm line 515.
05:14 audreyt Use of uninitialized value in concatenation (.) or string at /Users/audreyt/tmp/v6-pugs-0.005/bl​ib/lib/Pugs/Emitter/Perl6/Perl5.pm line 515.
05:16 clkao ya. dunno what changed
05:16 clkao will look after shower
05:16 clkao but probably not important
05:16 audreyt $name is under perhaps?
05:16 audreyt s/under/undef
05:16 audreyt yeah.
05:16 clkao name shold be there
05:17 clkao fixed
05:17 clkao need multisub
05:18 gaal sup yo
05:18 ivanfrey joined perl6
05:20 svnbot6 r11195 | clkao++ | Fix a warning emitting empty signature.
05:22 ivanfrey audreyt: How do I install Bundle::Pugs::SmokeKit?
05:22 audreyt ivanfrey: cpan Bundle::Pugs::SmokeKit
05:22 audreyt sudo as neede
05:22 audreyt d
05:23 gaal http://irc.pugscode.org/ is down?
05:24 gaal (but http://colabti.de/irclogger/irclogger_log/perl6 is up)
05:24 * clkao . o O (Bundle::v6)
05:26 ivanfrey GOT /Users/ivanfrey/.cpan/source​s/modules/03modlist.data.gz
05:26 ivanfrey Going to read /Users/ivanfrey/.cpan/source​s/modules/03modlist.data.gz
05:26 ivanfrey Going to write /Users/ivanfrey/.cpan/Metadata
05:26 ivanfrey Warning: Cannot install Bundle::Pugs::SmokeKit, don't know what it is.
05:26 ivanfrey Try the command
05:26 ivanfrey    i /Bundle::Pugs::SmokeKit/
05:26 ivanfrey to find objects with matching identifiers.
05:27 gaal urp? do other modules install OK?
05:28 gaal ivanfrey: try for example 'cpan YAML::Syck'
05:28 ivanfrey This was the tail end of the result of perl -MCPAN -e 'install Bundle::Pugs::SmokeKit'
05:29 gaal does this work?   perl -MCPAN -e 'install "YAML::Syck"'
05:29 gaal (have you installed cpan modules on this machine before?)
05:30 audreyt gaal: you going to join the 'thoners tomorrow?
05:31 audreyt afternoon that is
05:31 gaal thoning?
05:31 gaal sure
05:31 audreyt @ obra's office
05:31 ivanfrey gaal: no I haven't installed cpan modules at all.
05:31 gaal i was just meeting two local friends today
05:31 audreyt cool. I'd like to get MM mapped
05:31 audreyt to P6AST
05:31 gaal good
05:32 audreyt very happy that Test.pm and 01-sanity/* runs from v6.pm land
05:32 ivanfrey audreyt: I'm getting this error:
05:32 gaal I can use some time near the eye of the insanitorm
05:32 audreyt which means we can deploy+test on both hs and p5 rapidly without worrying too much about surface scaffolding
05:32 ivanfrey Trying with "/bin/wget -O -" to get
05:32 ivanfrey    ftp://ftp.perl.org/pub/CPA​N/authors/01mailrc.txt.gz
05:32 ivanfrey --01:26:35--  ftp://ftp.perl.org/pub/CPA​N/authors/01mailrc.txt.gz
05:32 ivanfrey           => `-'
05:32 ivanfrey Resolving ftp.perl.org... 192.75.95.80, 142.132.65.108
05:32 gaal audreyt: yes that is quite spectacular! CBS doesn't know it, but the fireworks were for that?
05:32 ivanfrey Connecting to ftp.perl.org[192.75.95.80]:21... connected.
05:32 ivanfrey Logging in as anonymous ... Logged in!
05:33 ivanfrey ==> SYST ... done.    ==> PWD ... done.
05:33 ivanfrey ==> TYPE I ... done.  ==> CWD /pub/CPAN/authors ... done.
05:33 ivanfrey ==> PORT ... done.    ==> RETR 01mailrc.txt.gz ...
05:33 audreyt gaal: might be
05:33 ivanfrey Error in server response, closing control connection.
05:33 ivanfrey Retrying.
05:33 mdiep so if Perl6 has n-backends, something like DBI will require n implementations? (even if they share most of the underlying code)
05:33 audreyt ivanfrey: that's... usual.
05:33 audreyt mdiep: yes, very good analogy
05:33 gaal does that mean your net setup is unhappy with FTP active mode?
05:34 gaal ivanfrey: try an HTTP mirror?
05:34 audreyt ivanfrey: export  FTP_PASSIVE=1
05:34 audreyt and try again
05:34 audreyt s/export/setenv/ if you are on tcsh
05:34 audreyt for my life I never understood why that is not the default.
05:34 gaal 2nd that :(
05:35 audreyt actually I do understand
05:35 gaal audreyt: actually I think there are versions of Net::whatever it is that ignore that setting
05:35 audreyt some early broken servers did not impleent PASV
05:35 audreyt but all servers (allegedly) support active
05:35 gaal ISTR I had to hack a hardcoded value in the installed module :(
05:35 audreyt so the one is default
05:35 audreyt gaal: LWP.
05:36 gaal yeah but of course not all firewalls do
05:36 audreyt LWP::Protocol::MyFTP
05:36 audreyt I had to
05:36 audreyt    my $self = $class->SUPER::new(@_, Passive => 1) || return undef;
05:36 gaal do new perls ship with something that speaks http?
05:36 audreyt gaal: not afaic
05:36 gaal perl--
05:36 gaal that makes new installations fiteen times more difficult than they need to be
05:37 audreyt yeah.
05:38 audreyt though, Perl 5.10 would ship with CPANPLUS
05:38 audreyt which does force passive.
05:38 ivanfrey audreyt: same error doesn't know what Bundle::Pugs::SmokeKit is.
05:39 gaal ivanfrey: do you maybe have wget installed?
05:39 audreyt ivanfrey: hm. type
05:39 audreyt sudo cpan
05:39 audreyt and then
05:39 audreyt force install YAML URI MkDoc::XML Petal Test::TAP::Model Test::TAP::HTMLMatrix Best
05:39 audreyt and see if that works?
05:40 gaal audreyt: I think he doesn't have the index
05:40 gaal so first order of business is fixing transport for him.
05:40 audreyt oh right
05:40 gaal ivanfrey: if you do have wget, please try:
05:40 audreyt have to force reload.
05:40 gaal cpan
05:41 gaal > o conf urllist unshift http://www.perl.org/CPAN/
05:41 lambdabot Parse error
05:41 lambdabot Title: "CPAN"
05:41 gaal > o conf commit
05:41 lambdabot Not in scope: `commit'
05:41 gaal > reload index
05:41 lambdabot Not in scope: `reload'
05:41 gaal shush lambdabot
05:41 gaal and then try the d/l again
05:43 gaal if you do NOT have wget installed, you need to go to search.cpan.org and manually d/l a library that does http
05:44 ivanfrey gaal: No, I have wget.
05:44 gaal whew (geting lwp w/o something that fetches dependencies for you is painful)
05:44 * gaal has done it several times on broken windows boxes
05:46 ivanfrey gaal: there's a newer version of cpan I'm installing now.
05:49 clkao audreyt: does devel::caller test pass for you?
05:49 clkao audreyt: it's failing bizzarely for me. got and expected are the same
05:50 audreyt not on win32
05:50 clkao darwin?
05:50 audreyt testing
05:50 audreyt same failure mode. hmm
05:50 clkao you meant you didn't test when you installed it?
05:50 clkao ok, i am pinging richardc
05:50 audreyt my cpanp is set to perpetual skiptest.
05:51 clkao ...
05:51 clkao orz
05:51 gaal sure speeds it up!
05:51 clkao can you do that in bundle file?
05:51 audreyt gaal: exactly!
05:51 audreyt clkao: no
05:51 clkao nothingmuch: don't fall asleep hugging your laptop
05:51 gaal clkao: too late
05:52 gaal it would be cool to intercept the packets from last.fm and send him a wake up call
05:57 gaal zzZ&
06:02 ivanfrey audreyt: the Bundle::Pugs::SmokeKit install is asking whether I want the EUMM installer or the MB installer.
06:02 audreyt you want EUMM, I think.
06:04 audreyt shower, bbiab &
06:13 gaal audreyt: maybe nothing at all is not as good as a mock shebang
06:13 audreyt #!mock
06:13 audreyt ?
06:13 gaal # this is a perl6 program
06:13 gaal not recognized by perl or unix
06:13 audreyt #!perl6 ?
06:13 gaal no, not a shebang
06:14 audreyt $ echo '#!moose' > moose ; perl moose
06:14 audreyt Can't exec moose at moose line 1.
06:14 gaal because #!perl6 would be bad too
06:14 audreyt indeed
06:14 gaal sorry, "mock" was the wrong word
06:14 audreyt that's another thing for bleadperl to address
06:14 gaal non-#! line but still a comment
06:14 audreyt well
06:14 audreyt use v6-pugs
06:14 audreyt would be that comment
06:14 audreyt I think.
06:15 audreyt use v6-perl; # unless it's this to be more explicit
06:15 audreyt but we can sort out the -suffix mess tomorrow; it was -pugs, let's stay -pugs for tonight :)
06:16 gaal if only because some day we'll want (maybe) to perl -pi -e to another real shebang
06:16 gaal and having a neutral marker will make that easier
06:16 gaal w/o falling into files that aren't tests under t/
06:17 audreyt well, we'll do a
06:17 gaal "# this is a perl6 program" works
06:17 ivanfrey audreyt: I'm giving up for tonight. Gotta get some sleep.
06:17 audreyt perl -pi -e 's/^use v6-pugs;/#!realshebang\n$&/'
06:17 audreyt ivanfrey: that is a wise choice
06:17 audreyt ivanfrey: at least we made progress...
06:17 audreyt ivanfrey: sorry for the pain :)
06:18 * gaal wonders why B:P:SK has an installer at all, being a bundle, but it being 2:18 precludes his further inquiry
06:19 * audreyt suggests gaal retool it into Task::Pugs
06:19 audreyt or Task::Smoke
06:19 gaal not toniht though
06:19 audreyt definitely tonight
06:19 audreyt which is to say, ~18 hours from now
06:19 gaal that sounds like a good schedule to me
06:19 audreyt :)
06:19 gaal moose moose
06:20 audreyt moose moose
06:20 audreyt shower for real &
06:20 gaal i still have a niggling feeling a dummy line wold be helpful but don't know why
06:20 gaal night for real &
06:20 ivanfrey audreyt: Yes we did make some progress. Take Care.
06:20 audreyt you too :)
06:21 audreyt clkao: it's taking forever to commit
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06:29 clkao audreyt: :(
06:36 svnbot6 r11196 | audreyt++ | * Sweeping change over all t/*.t t/*.pm files to make them executable with perl5.
06:36 svnbot6 r11196 | audreyt++ | * All the #! lines are gone.
06:36 svnbot6 r11196 | audreyt++ | * All the "use v6;" lines are replaced with "use v6-pugs;".
06:36 audreyt clkao: there you go
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06:42 dduncan audreyt, didn't you use update S11 to be implementation neutral, such as "use v6-**"?  ... that sounds like a step backwards then
06:42 audreyt dduncan: yeah indeed.
06:42 dduncan or is it okay because they're bundled with pugs?
06:42 audreyt $ perl -we 'use v6-**'
06:42 audreyt Argument "*main::*" isn't numeric in negation (-) at -e line 1.
06:43 audreyt it is not okay
06:43 audreyt it's just ** fails -w
06:43 audreyt "make test" defaults to -w
06:43 audreyt so we either find someway to subtly circumvent -w
06:43 audreyt (which is unlikely)
06:43 audreyt or switch back to
06:43 audreyt use v6-()
06:43 audreyt or use a bareword
06:43 audreyt use v6-0
06:43 audreyt use v6-any
06:43 audreyt use v6-perl
06:43 audreyt that is the leading candidates
06:43 dduncan maybe put a 'no warnings' block around that? ... or that could be worse
06:43 audreyt I think that's worse
06:44 audreyt as the idea is to let people effortlessly write perl6 code
06:44 audreyt that can be run in both perl5 and pugs
06:44 audreyt so far, I like
06:44 audreyt use v6-perl;
06:44 audreyt best
06:44 audreyt but I can certainly live with v6-() or v6-0 or any of the other alternatives.
06:45 dduncan if you want to be open-ended, the use v6-any seems closest in spirit to v6-**
06:45 dduncan in my opinion
06:45 audreyt yeah.
06:45 audreyt I like v6-perl because it's more self-descriptive
06:45 audreyt especially now we don't have #! anymore
06:45 audreyt it makes people see that "it's the version 6 of perl"
06:47 audreyt but otherwise I like -any
06:47 audreyt has the spirit of "anydbm"
06:48 audreyt in any case, this thing can wait till tomorrow with putter timtoady etc are all awake
06:48 dduncan now, what about ext/ modules etc?  some or all of them still use shebang lines; should those be changed to be like the tests?
06:49 audreyt dduncan: I think so, but not before we 1)make the tests work with v6.pm
06:49 audreyt and 2)decide what -suffix to use
06:49 dduncan good idea
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07:06 clkao kane!
07:06 kane_ hey cl
07:06 clkao how are you
07:06 kane_ tired :) but only 3 more days till a month of vacation :)))
07:06 clkao we've just released a v6.pm that compiles perl6 Test.pm
07:06 clkao whoot
07:07 kane_ gratz :)
07:07 kane_ its' going nicely i see
07:07 clkao so you are going honeymoon before wedding?
07:07 kane_ nope, somewhere in the fall, when weather is crap again :)
07:08 kane_ so, what's your visa status saying?
07:08 SM_ax joined perl6
07:09 clkao i think i can go back to uk
07:10 clkao pugs still takes forever to compile on my laptop
07:11 kane_ so does perl5 though :)
07:11 kane_ so the plan is to reside in the uk for now then? at least that's a place where we can come look you up :)
07:12 clkao for a while
07:12 clkao i don't know yet.  attempting to plan makes me sad
07:12 kane_ hah
07:12 kane_ is it now the P*** word?
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07:30 clkao audreyt: pugs -BPerl5 needs to be smart about perl5lib
07:31 Aankhen`` joined perl6
07:31 clkao audreyt: and perl6lib
07:36 audreyt clkao: how, exactly?
07:44 renormalist joined perl6
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07:46 clkao audreyt: should the perl5/* things go under blib rather than blib6/pugs/perl5 ? -M really hates the latter, because there is ../../../../blib
07:46 clkao orz
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08:10 audreyt clkao: sorry, need to sleep now. let's continue tomorrow
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13:04 ivanfrey audreyt: Maybe I copied this command wrong:
13:04 christopher joined perl6
13:05 ivanfrey env PERL_HARNESS=./pugs prove t/01-sanity/*.t
13:05 ivanfrey env: prove: No such file or directory
13:05 pasteling "broquaint" at 217.206.131.214 pasted "An idea to simplify installing Pugs::Compiler::Regex rules" (30 lines, 535B) at http://sial.org/pbot/18224
13:07 broquaint You need Test::Harness installed, ivanfrey.
13:07 broquaint http://search.cpan.org/~pe​tdance/Test-Harness-2.62/
13:07 lambdabot Title: "Andy Lester / Test-Harness-2.62 - search.cpan.org"
13:10 broquaint Or not, ignore me.
13:17 meppl guten morgen
13:18 ivanfrey broquaint: thanks, that did the trick.
13:20 kanru joined perl6
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13:25 ivanfrey audreyt: when I'm back on later I'll post my errors from "env PERL_HARNESS=./pugs prove t/01-sanity/*.t"
13:28 bpphillips joined perl6
13:28 svnbot6 r11197 | fglock++ | v6 - a bit more of 'rule' parsing
13:29 cdpruden joined perl6
13:49 nothingmuch morning fair lambdmoose
13:54 fglock nothingmuch: good morning
13:58 fglock broquaint: thanks!   # backlogging
13:59 broquaint np, fglock.
14:00 broquaint That code could suck less too, but it should work in theory.
14:01 fglock broquaint: do you have a commit bit?
14:01 broquaint I believe so.
14:01 broquaint Shall I make it so then?
14:01 broquaint (with tests)
14:02 fglock sure - many thanks!
14:02 fglock source = perl5/Pugs-Compiler-Rule/
14:03 broquaint Right oh, I'm on it :)
14:04 daxim joined perl6
14:04 clkao audreyt: devel::caller 01.0 should pass tests
14:05 fglock clkao: hi!
14:06 rzoz joined perl6
14:07 nothingmuch clkao: morning
14:07 nothingmuch i hope I didn't wake you
14:08 clkao nothingmuch: no you didnt
14:08 clkao fglock: hey
14:09 fglock clkao: I'm working on compiling rules (p6-on-p6)
14:10 clkao fglock: the s// rules are reverted, as it conflicts with my changes. i changed how the token substitution is parsed
14:10 buubot joined perl6
14:11 fglock clkao: ok
14:12 buubot joined perl6
14:13 fglock clkao: I don't know what to write in the ChangeLog - we changed a bit of everything :)
14:13 clkao fglock: "Changed everything to make Test.pm compile?"
14:13 justatheory joined perl6
14:14 * nothingmuch wonders what jesse meant by having to be up at 8
14:17 svnbot6 r11198 | fglock++ | v6 - ChangeLog on previous versions
14:17 clkao nothingmuch: but it
14:17 clkao 's for furniture devliery. os if they didn't ring it's probably alright
14:18 nothingmuch i was just kidding
14:18 nothingmuch i've been downstairs for a while and there has been no suspicious activity
14:18 nothingmuch so it's prolly OK =)
14:20 fglock clkao: ' sub { 42 } ' generates 'Data::Bind->sub_signature( \&, );' - looks wrong
14:20 clkao that's wrong
14:21 clkao create a test case?
14:21 clkao i don't have much time for perl6 hacking today
14:22 merlyn but if you don't work on perl6, the terrorists have already won!
14:23 clkao devel::caller has a macro in caller.xs.
14:23 clkao define #WORK_DAMN_YOU
14:24 clkao merlyn: i think my country care less about terrorists ;)
14:24 * clkao wakes up
14:24 clkao nothingmuch: we need to go shopping. you still need shoes?
14:24 nothingmuch ywa, od xoueaw
14:24 nothingmuch yes, of course
14:24 nothingmuch let's make breakfast, then go to herz and make sure the car is OK
14:25 nothingmuch then go downtownish as per obra reccomendations
14:25 clkao nothingmuch: you want to make breakfast? ;)
14:25 nothingmuch sure
14:25 clkao i know the gear shop, let me google map it
14:26 nothingmuch i got some reccomendations for jwang (ex bostonian), but they were fairly "anything works"ish
14:26 nothingmuch in Israel you have to be quite careful
14:26 nothingmuch because return policies are hard
14:27 nothingmuch so, breakfast arrangements have been delegated
14:27 rgs return policies?
14:27 nothingmuch as in, if these hiking boots are not good for me at all (which they may be, i have a pretty unique foot shape), in israel i could probably never return them
14:28 xdg joined perl6
14:28 nothingmuch in the US i can
14:29 svnbot6 r11199 | fglock++ | v6 - 14-anon-sub.t - testing anon-sub compilation
14:30 nothingmuch morning xdg
14:30 xdg morning
14:31 xdg nothingmuch, belated happy birthday, by the way
14:31 nothingmuch clkao: btw, the next time i fall asleep on the couch you are entitled to slapping rights
14:31 nothingmuch thanks, xdg  =)
14:31 * nothingmuch was trying to think and then somewhat nodded off
14:32 rzoz joined perl6
14:35 svnbot6 r11200 | fglock++ | v6 - emitter: warn Dumper( $ast ) if $ENV{V6DUMPAST};
14:38 svnbot6 r11201 | fglock++ | v6 - s/Dumper/.perl/
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14:42 ajs FYI: > sudo cpan v6
14:42 ajs Can't locate inc/Module/Install/Admin.pm in @INC
14:43 ajs > perl -v
14:43 lambdabot Not in scope: `v'
14:43 ajs This is perl, v5.8.6
14:43 ajs just FYI
14:44 fglock ajs: try 'reload index' - there is a new version already
14:45 ajs Just did. Still same msg. When I "cpan Module::Install::Admin" it says it's up to date as well
14:45 ajs I tried force installing Module::Install::Admin, and still no change
14:47 shachaf joined perl6
14:48 fglock oops - it is still broken in the last version: http://search.cpan.org/src/AUDREYT​/v6-pugs-0.005/inc/Module/Install/
14:48 lambdabot Title: "Index of /src/AUDREYT/v6-pugs-0.005/inc/Module/Install"
14:48 fglock ajs: I'll upload it again - thanks
14:49 fglock it's missing in the MANIFEST file
14:53 weinig|away is now known as weinig
14:55 fglock audreyt: pugs/inc/Module/Install doesn't have Admin.pm
14:55 clkao fglock: really? it seemed to work for me. i instaslled 00 from pause incoming last night
14:56 ajs clkao: Did you have a previously installed, working copy?
14:56 clkao i was trying a fresh install
14:56 ajs clkao: huh. dunno
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14:58 fglock Module::Install in cpan doesn't have Admin.pm either
14:58 clkao admin is some special case in pugs/ only iirc
14:59 fglock ajs: try 'install Module::Install' - Admin.pm is in lib/
15:00 ajs Q: is sub defined(Scalar $thing, ::Role?) {...} the correct way to describe defined?
15:01 ajs S06 is a bit fuzzy on how type passing works vs. generics.
15:02 fglock ajs: I think this is describing 'does()'
15:02 ajs fglock: Well http://svn.openfoundry.org/pugs​/docs/Perl6/Spec/Functions.pod says: $x.defined(SomeRole);
15:03 fglock ajs: sorry, I don't know
15:03 ajs Which is the method variant, but the same would have to apply to both the sub and method
15:03 ajs fglock: NP. thanks anyway. I'll assume it's right for now.
15:05 chris2 joined perl6
15:08 svnbot6 r11202 | broquaint++ | * Added the C<install()> method + tests + updated docs.
15:09 fglock broquaint: thanks!
15:09 broquaint Happy to help :)
15:13 * gaal meows
15:15 audreyt ajs: ping
15:17 audreyt ajs: the M::I::Admin bug -- does it occur on v6.pm 0.005 on CPAN
15:17 audreyt and if yes, can you give me a shell access so I can duplicate and fix it?
15:17 szbalint audreyt: morning?
15:17 audreyt I've seen people reporting it but I can't quite reproduce
15:17 audreyt szbalint: greretings
15:19 szbalint I was wondering whether there are any plans to fix that try/exception handling bug, as it is interfering with my DBI project. I managed to work around it but that's kind of ugly.
15:19 svnbot6 r11203 | fglock++ | Pugs-Compiler-Rule - ChangeLog install()
15:19 audreyt szbalint: how did you work around it?
15:21 elmex joined perl6
15:21 nothingmuch win14
15:22 broquaint Thanks, fglock, forgot about that :)
15:22 fglock np :)
15:24 szbalint audreyt: using perl5 code to do the eval.
15:24 clkao audreyt: can you see d::caller work for osx? it failed on threaded perl for me on bsd
15:26 ajs audreyt: pong
15:27 ajs F/FG/FGLOCK/v6-pugs-0.003.tar.gz
15:27 ajs Should I be getting a newer version? I've updated my CPAN indexes...
15:28 nothingmuch clkao: let's have lunch at diesel
15:28 audreyt ajs: please download 0.005 from search.cpan.org/dist/v6/
15:28 nothingmuch and then go on the subway
15:29 clkao nothingmuch: that's wrong planning. we should go porter sq and harvard sq
15:29 nothingmuch clkao: what part is wrong?
15:31 clkao nothingmuch: diesel is the other way, davis sq
15:32 rzoz_ joined perl6
15:33 svnbot6 r11204 | fglock++ | v6 - parses very basic rule declarations; full parsing with
15:33 svnbot6 r11204 | fglock++ | Pugs::Grammar::Rule.rule is not possible yet
15:33 ajs audreyt: doing
15:33 fglock bbiab &
15:35 ajs audreyt: Works, but wants Devel::Caller which fails tests on install. Other than that installation went cleanly
15:36 JimKraj joined perl6
15:40 audreyt ajs: there's a new Devel::Caller too.
15:40 audreyt http://pause.cpan.org/incomi​ng/Devel-Caller-0.10.tar.gz
15:41 rzoz_ is now known as rzoz
15:41 ajs Thanks
15:43 prefiks joined perl6
15:46 audreyt szbalint: wait a sec
15:46 audreyt szbalint: you had
15:46 audreyt use perl5:Foo
15:46 audreyt but there is no Foo
15:46 audreyt is that the error you want to trap?
15:46 szbalint no
15:46 szbalint but the test is path sensitive I'm afraid
15:47 bpphillips joined perl6
15:47 audreyt oh. better to use core module
15:47 audreyt I'll fix
15:47 szbalint ok
15:48 putter joined perl6
15:49 putter hi folks.
15:49 putter so is there a 'thon plan for lunch?
15:49 audreyt szbalint: it appears method-not-found does get captured
15:50 szbalint hm
15:50 putter fglock: congrats on recent milestones.
15:50 audreyt and explicit "die" is not
15:50 audreyt investigating
15:50 szbalint okay.
15:50 stevan joined perl6
15:53 svnbot6 r11205 | audreyt++ | * exception_handling.t: switch to core module "Carp" for testing
15:53 buubot joined perl6
15:55 putter hi stevan
15:56 gaal stevan: moose?
15:57 Daveman joined perl6
15:57 putter Hmm.  The pugs HEAD build is still broken.  Same error as last night.  Cannot import `Data.ByteString':  it was found in multiple packages: pugs-fps-0.7 fps-0.7.  Is there a workaround?
15:59 gaal putter: try ghc-pkg unrefister fps
15:59 gaal *unregister
15:59 stevan gaal: moose
15:59 stevan putter: hey
15:59 gaal stevan! welcome?
15:59 audreyt szbalint: I have a workaround
15:59 audreyt szbalint: namely demoting all uncaught "die" in perl5 land into warnings
16:00 stevan gaal: I am waiting downstairs for my hello hug
16:00 clkao stevan: while you are gone, v6.pm became crazy
16:00 gaal one hello hug, coming down!
16:00 audreyt szbalint: would that be acceptible?
16:01 szbalint audreyt: The reason I need try is to use it like the example in Inline::Java for exception handling (to interface with JDBC), so I need to trap the error/warning anyway somehow.
16:02 buubot joined perl6
16:02 audreyt ok. so you do want $! in p6 land to contain the error in p5 land
16:02 szbalint yeah.
16:03 audreyt thinking.
16:04 gaal c
16:06 svnbot6 r11206 | szbalint++ | Removing unused directory.
16:06 buubot joined perl6
16:07 stevan putter: are you joining our happy hackathon today?
16:07 stevan in meatspace that is
16:08 Daveman Greetings, gaal :)
16:08 gaal hey Daveman
16:10 audreyt szbalint: I think I've got it fixed. testing
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16:12 szbalint audreyt: oh, nice! Thanks for the fast help with it.
16:12 audreyt np :) thanks for prompting
16:12 audreyt the trick is essentially forcing a
16:12 audreyt return ($@, ...)
16:12 audreyt from p5 land
16:13 putter stevan: yes.  though noone was at the office when I stopped by earlier.  don't know what the plan is.
16:14 rgs hi all. just to check... (my $foo) = 42 is forbidden in P6 ?
16:14 audreyt ?eval (my $foo) = 42
16:14 evalbot_11162 is now known as evalbot_11168
16:14 evalbot_11168 (\42,)
16:14 audreyt that works just fine, thanks :)
16:14 rgs damn
16:14 rgs I need a new pugs
16:15 audreyt yeah. that's fixed in 6.2.12
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16:19 svnbot6 r11207 | audreyt++ | * Pugs::Compile::Rule - Fix Makefile.PL as noted by DanKogai++
16:20 rzoz_ joined perl6
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16:23 fglock putter: thanks!
16:24 putter Ok, I removed ~/.ghc (didn't realize it was there - that sure made my past release testing a whole lot less useful).  ~/.ghc had the only package.conf with fps.  starting from scratch, make fails with: Could not find module `Data.Yaml.Syck'.
16:24 putter fglock:  :)
16:24 thepler left perl6
16:24 audreyt putter: can't be "scratch"; perl Makefile.PL will put a Data.Yaml.Syck there
16:25 shachaf joined perl6
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16:26 gaal putter: I think this has happened to me too but I wasn't paying attention when I hackarounded it. What 'make' invocation are you using?
16:27 gaal try just 'make'
16:27 stevan putter: I am not sure of the details of the plan myself, but I know we will be migrating to the office somtime this afternoon
16:27 pasteling "spinclad" at 209.94.133.172 pasted "build failure at r11196" (28 lines, 1.1K) at http://sial.org/pbot/18237
16:27 gaal not unoptimized or pugs or anything
16:27 audreyt spinclad: r11207 fixed that
16:27 gaal putter, spinclad: yes, we should be moving to the office in an hour or so
16:27 putter audreyt: re scratch - was, didnt, retrying.
16:28 notThis joined perl6
16:28 putter perl Makefile.PL >log_1 2>&1; make >log_2make 2>&1
16:31 amnesiac_ joined perl6
16:31 putter Unless I'm being very careless...  attempted build from scratch.  problem unchanged.  Hmm...
16:31 amnesiac_ is now known as amnesiac
16:33 putter ... nope, none of my package.conf's mention Yaml, so I'm not confusing things.
16:34 audreyt ok.
16:34 audreyt is this your laptop?
16:35 pasteling "putter" at 66.30.119.55 pasted "perl Makefile.PL >log_1 2>&1" (94 lines, 3.4K) at http://sial.org/pbot/18238
16:35 audreyt putter: ok. hm. I think "make" builds HsSyck
16:35 audreyt but this may be somehow prevented
16:36 audreyt try "make >log_1 2>&1" ?
16:37 pasteling "putter" at 66.30.119.55 pasted "make >log_2make 2>&1" (409 lines, 27.5K) at http://sial.org/pbot/18239
16:40 audreyt ok, so it registered pugs-fpc
16:40 audreyt -fps
16:40 audreyt but ghc-pkg can't find that
16:40 audreyt that is curious.
16:40 audreyt do you have write permission to ~/.ghc/ ?
16:40 spinclad audreyt: thanks, i finally caught up with that in bl
16:41 rzoz_ is now known as rzoz
16:42 putter I disabled ~/.ghc per above.  I'll try putting it back.
16:42 putter Can users be depended upon to have a .ghc ?
16:43 putter "disabled" ~~ renamed
16:43 spinclad gaal: thanks
16:44 audreyt putter: yes ghc adds that automatically
16:44 gaal spinclad: we'll ping you when we leave for the office, about 15 before getting there
16:44 audreyt szbalint: please test.
16:45 audreyt szbalint: I _think_ I got it right
16:45 svnbot6 r11208 | audreyt++ | * szbalint++ requested that we propagate Perl 5 "die" errors into
16:45 svnbot6 r11208 | audreyt++ |   Perl 6 "die" errors so that it can be caught and handled at "try" site.
16:45 svnbot6 r11208 | audreyt++ |   We implement it with prepending $@ to each return list.
16:45 audreyt but I'm not sure of DBI6's test case
16:45 audreyt so please test :)
16:45 buubot joined perl6
16:46 putter ok.  thanks.  will add renormalizing it to my test scripts.  "yaks are cute creachers.  bit black wet noses.  friendly.  sigh"
16:46 szbalint audreyt: okay.
16:46 spinclad gaal: good
16:46 * szbalint tests
16:46 audreyt putter: working with Cabal is like... working with Module::Build
16:47 audreyt it clearly solves real problems, it's even made into core module, but the user-side incompatibility among versions makes it hard to work around
16:47 audreyt just yesterday I had M::B failing on me in a similar way.
16:48 PerlJam So ... what's this I hear about ponie 2.0?  Anything interesting?  Or should I just wait for the official announcement?
16:48 audreyt it needs ExtUtils::ParseXS to support XS modules, but it can only use it if it's installed _before_ it
16:48 audreyt as it's not a dependency, only a recommends
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16:48 audreyt PerlJam: it's ideaware at this moment; the idea seems to be rebuilding Perl 5 without using Perl 5 core, using TGE/PGE alone
16:49 putter What can we do so that perl6 has less of this hair?
16:49 audreyt I hope it's started after Punie passes more than 3 or 50 test files...
16:49 audreyt s/it's/it'll be/
16:49 gaal audreyt: which reminds me, does MB/MI have the concept of "require one of these n modules?" thinking of Task::PugsSmoke which surely recommends YAML::Syck but requires at least YAML.
16:50 gaal putter: builting PAR and many pure-perl bootstrapping modules
16:50 audreyt gaal:
16:50 audreyt if ( can_cc() ) { requires('YAML::Syck' => '0.27') unless can_use('YAML'       => 0.35);
16:50 audreyt } else { requires('YAML'       => '0.35') unless can_use('YAML::Syck' => 0.27);
16:50 audreyt }
16:50 audreyt but no it's not abstracted away yet
16:50 stevan use Best :)
16:50 gaal excellent
16:50 gaal stevan: we do in fact :) but this is at install time
16:50 PerlJam audreyt: so, they're going to forego bug-for-bug compatibility and start from scratch?
16:50 PerlJam (assuming the idea gets off the ground)
16:51 audreyt PerlJam: it's all ideaware at this moment so I have no idea
16:51 audreyt wait for announcement later, maybe
16:51 putter re fps unregister, one needs something like   ghc-pkg -f ~/.ghc/x86_64-linux-6.4.1/package.conf unregister fps   because the default ghc install has the main package.conf owned by root, pugs builds modify the ~/.ghc package.conf, and ghc-pkg goes boom when it finds it cant write the main .conf, even though it doesnt need to. :/
16:51 audreyt ghc-pkg --user unregister fps
16:51 audreyt is the incantation
16:52 spinclad I noticed in my makelog last night: after sudo ../../Setup install of both pugs-fps and pugs-HsSyck, the make went through but appeared to be installing in ~/.ghc where it would not be found.  (before rafl's changes they were found there.)
16:52 audreyt oh!
16:52 audreyt hm.
16:53 audreyt trying to duplicate here
16:53 spinclad s:last/it/they/
16:54 spinclad (it found the global installed ones so went through, but 'make' is no longer keeping them up to date...)
16:54 gaal eep, /me remembers sudo chmod a+w his ghc pakcage registry after some losing battles with lossage of this sort
16:55 audreyt spinclad: I'm seeing something else here
16:55 gaal no doubt the Wrong Thing
16:55 audreyt spinclad: here it looks into --user and found it
16:55 ingy I want to be recognized as the one who coined TMTOWTJFDI
16:56 ingy TimToadJifty
16:56 * gaal recognizes ingy on sight
16:56 spinclad tmtowtfiu
16:56 * gaal cogs ingy again and again
16:57 ruoso joined perl6
16:58 spinclad Cabal-1.1.3, btw, debian latest
17:01 spinclad if we can get it looking in --user again reliably, we shouldn't have to sudo Setup install
17:04 putter (btw, my .ghc is back, its package.conf is now [], make error apparently unchanged, package.conf remains unchanged despite fps registering.  now exploring the fps registering process.)
17:06 * putter wonders whether you could shampoo yaks, and thus not mind them standing around all the time.  hay smells nice.  might need to housebreak them.
17:06 svnbot6 r11209 | fglock++ | Pugs-Compiler-Rule/compile_p6grammar.pl - compiles Rule.pm
17:20 Debolaz2 is now known as Debolaz
17:21 putter yipes. 33 thousand spam emails in just a couple of weeks.
17:21 gaal spinclad, putter: we're moving over to the office now
17:21 rafl spinclad: What do you mean with "would not be found"?
17:21 gaal see you soon &
17:21 rafl spinclad: also 1.1.4 is the latest Cabal in Debian.
17:21 putter gaal: thanks.
17:24 spinclad rafl: 1.1.3 is sid latest (that's experimental, right? is there later?)
17:24 szbalint hm putter, the from-scratch build I've tried bombed out too
17:24 szbalint "Could not find module `Data.Yaml.Syck'"
17:24 rafl spinclad: There's ghc6 6.4.2-2 which comes with Cabal-1.1.4
17:25 spinclad rafl: there's my clue, thanks
17:28 putter szbalint: good to know.  it looks like the chain is Data.Yaml.Syck not found because HsSyck build failed because error reading ./.setup-config because cannot satisfy dependency pugs-fps-any because... something silently went wrong with fps registration or install.
17:29 spinclad rafl: "would not be found":  i saw cases where the ghc-pkg register/unregister succeeded (presumably to ~/.ghc) but pugs-fps or pugs-HsSyck were not found when needed.
17:30 rafl spinclad: It shouldn't use ~/.ghc anymore. I build wrappers around ghc and ghc-pkg which install/register things inside the build tree.
17:31 rafl spinclad: third-party/installed/packages.conf or somesuch.
17:31 putter (the registration at least is not happening. either to .ghc, or a chmod a+w main package.conf)
17:31 putter rafl: does http://sial.org/pbot/18239  look like what you would expect?
17:31 lambdabot Title: "Paste #18239 from "putter" at 66.30.119.55"
17:32 rafl To see if it's registered in third-party/installed you could use ./util/ghc-pkg-wrapper -l
17:32 putter is there a .conf file?
17:33 spinclad ok, it is registered there
17:33 rafl putter: That's not what I expected. There's a conf file in third-party/installed which is created on the first run of either the ghc or ghc-pkg wrapper.
17:33 spinclad the dependency search may not be looking there
17:34 notThis joined perl6
17:34 pasteling "putter" at 66.30.119.55 pasted "third-party/installed/packages.conf" (1 line, 1.1K) at http://sial.org/pbot/18241
17:34 rafl putter: fps seems to be installed properly. Could you check if your ./util/ghc-pkg-wrapper -l can see it?
17:35 putter checking...
17:36 spinclad i'm going to unregister them from global and ~/.ghc and try again
17:36 putter yes, pugs-fps-0.7
17:36 rafl putter: You could also write a small haskell file which uses Data.ByteString and compile it with util/runcompiler -hide-all-packages -package pugs-fps
17:37 putter writing...
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17:41 rafl putter: You'll also need -package base, I guess.
17:41 putter yes...
17:44 frederico joined perl6
17:44 TimToady Cabal: A sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from 90% crap...
17:50 spinclad rafl: yes, that works (making ./pugs) (aside from needlessly rebuilding both packages, not a new problem)
17:50 Limbic_Region um, did the GHC version requirement change or is Win32 b0rk a known problem?
17:51 Limbic_Region and WTF is a Cabal installation?
17:51 rafl spinclad: I'll try to fix the latter right now.
17:51 pasteling "Limbic_Region" at 129.33.119.12 pasted "Win32 perl Makefile.PL failure(s)" (13 lines, 534B) at http://sial.org/pbot/18243
17:52 rafl putter: If that didn't work, try removing ~/.ghc. I'll be offline for about an hour now.
17:52 spinclad not a problem with the wrapper that i can see
17:53 Limbic_Region fwiw - this is after an nmake realclean and a svn up
17:54 jkanter joined perl6
17:54 svnbot6 r11210 | fglock++ | Pugs-Compiler-Rule - fixed quoting in emitted :ratchet code
17:55 * spinclad &  # food, shower, check back here, head over to davis^2
17:56 audreyt Limbic_Region: try now?
17:56 svnbot6 r11211 | audreyt++ | * Makefile.PL - fix win32 path in ghc-pkg wrapper
17:56 svnbot6 r11210 | fglock++ | Pugs-Compiler-Rule - fixed quoting in emitted :ratchet code
17:57 stevan joined perl6
17:57 audreyt Limbic_Region: it's rafl and his unix-centric code again :)
17:57 audreyt but it should be fixed nnow
17:57 audreyt putter: come to the office and let's debug it f2f? :)
17:57 audreyt (with your laptop)
17:58 stevan yes putter please come by :)
17:59 fglock does <@terms> capture to $/<terms> ?
17:59 Aankh|Clone joined perl6
18:02 putter rafl: sorry, a call.  A simple ./util/runcompiler -hide-all-packages -package pugs-fps -package base Main.hs  works, where Main imports but does not use ByteString.  I'll try using next...
18:03 putter audreyt: no laptop.  :(  awaits having a job.
18:05 * Limbic_Region tries again
18:06 stevan putter: come anyway
18:07 Limbic_Region so far so good audreyt
18:07 Limbic_Region audreyt
18:07 szbalint audreyt: I seem to have the same problem as putter, if you want I can offer shell access to my development pc.
18:07 Limbic_Region grrr - my ability to use plus symbol is gone again
18:08 particle_ joined perl6
18:08 kolibrie stevan: I submitted a talk proposal for http://pghpw.org
18:08 lambdabot Title: "Pittsburgh Perl Workshop - 2006-09-23 - About"
18:08 particle_ howdy all
18:08 fglock Limbic_Region: no plus symbol here too
18:08 TimToady fglock: no
18:08 stevan kolibrie: nice
18:09 fglock TimToady: thanks
18:09 TimToady only <alphabetic> captures by default.
18:09 particle_ do regexes allow routine modifiers (eg. multi rule foo { ... } )?
18:09 TimToady which is why <?ws> disables capturing ws.
18:09 putter steven: right, will do
18:10 particle_ ?eval multi rule foo { ... }
18:10 evalbot_11168 Error:  unexpected "f" expecting comment, "handles", bare trait, subroutine parameters, trait or block
18:10 TimToady yes, but a multi rule isn't going to do you much good without a different signature.
18:10 putter anyone: could someone give me a oneliner use of ByteString.  my haskell-fu is failing me...
18:10 particle_ understood, just making parser mods
18:10 kolibrie maybe tomorrow I can finally get around to looking at grammars again, after the nice fixes audreyt++ and pmichaud++ put into pugs and parrot for me
18:11 TimToady rules are specifically allowed to declare sigs though.
18:11 putter oh, neat (rules allow sigs)
18:11 * kolibrie notes that in his brain for future reference
18:12 TimToady we already use it for things like <operprecparser(@terminators)>
18:13 TimToady though that's presumably just an ordinary sub there.
18:13 particle_ yep, pge does that
18:13 particle_ s/pge/pgc/
18:13 TimToady or rules of the form <abc stuff>
18:13 TimToady anyway, you can parameterize rules.
18:14 particle_ hrmm, so a space seperates the rule name from it's args
18:14 TimToady rather important in recursive descent parsing to know what the expected terminators are.
18:14 particle_ iirc perl6 subs allow spaces in names
18:14 TimToady <abc stuff> parses stuff as regex.  <abc(stuff)> parses stuff as arglist.
18:14 ingy hola
18:14 Aankh|Clone is now known as Aankhen``
18:14 particle_ howdy ingy
18:15 TimToady currently <abc: stuff> is equivalent to <abc('stuff')> or some such.
18:15 putter re ByteString, got it, exploring
18:16 ingy ang it
18:16 ingy d
18:16 ingy I made coffee an hour ago
18:16 ingy and forgot about it
18:16 ingy a sure sign I haven't had my coffee yet
18:18 particle_ should 'my Int sub foo ( --> Int )' be a parse error?
18:18 particle_ ?eval my Int sub foo ( --> Int ) { ... }
18:18 evalbot_11168 Error:  unexpected "-" expecting comment, formal parameter or ")"
18:19 larsen joined perl6
18:20 TimToady ?eval my Int Int sub foo () { ... }
18:20 evalbot_11168 Error:  unexpected "I" expecting comment, "\\", ":", "*" or parameter name
18:20 TimToady ?eval sub foo (Int Int $x) {...}
18:20 evalbot_11168 Error:  unexpected "I" expecting comment, "\\", ":", "*", parameter name or ")"
18:21 TimToady Looks like it doesn't handle "anded" types yet.
18:21 TimToady In any event, shouldn't be a parse error.
18:21 particle_ great, was hoping that
18:22 TimToady could possibly be a semantic error if you say my FloorTopping sub shinola (--> DesertWax), but it should always at least parse.
18:22 TimToady *DessertWax
18:23 TimToady and even if the two types can't be combined, it'd probably just be a warning about unreachable code.
18:24 particle_ and the --> must follow all params, yes?
18:24 TimToady yes.
18:25 particle_ okay, next.
18:25 particle_ rule signature {  $<invocants>:=(<parameter>? [, <parameter>]*)
18:25 particle_  $<paramlist>:=(\: <parameter>? [, <parameter>]*)?  }
18:25 TimToady and we've reserved the ( --> Foo; ) syntax (note semi) for possible mmd tiebreaking on return type.
18:25 particle_ ooh, good to know
18:26 particle_ that's an optional semi denoting mmd type tiebreak... will do
18:26 particle_ the signature rule above populates $<invocants> in absense of a \:
18:26 particle_ this seems incorrect
18:27 particle_ i believe $<paramlist> should be populated if there's no '\:'. agreed?
18:27 TimToady nowadays invocants (plural) is always incorrect.  we no longer call mmd longname parameters 'invocants'
18:28 TimToady that seems right.
18:28 TimToady the invocants vs longnames is partly why we differentiated : into : or ;
18:28 particle_ i see.
18:29 particle_ does anything every follow the ; ?
18:29 TimToady so there can only ever be one :
18:29 TimToady and if it's missing, the invocant is implied
18:30 putter rafl: Ok, re runcompiler, my only note is it errors if Main is not defined.  Other than that, it worked in different directories, and ByteString was used ok (didnt try fps itself).  Happily dropped a.out's.
18:30 TimToady previously, if we saw multi ($self:...) we had to guess...
18:30 TimToady sure, you can replace every comma with ; if you like, then you get common lisp mmd semantics
18:31 TimToady if you leave out all ; then there's one implied currently after the last param but before any -->
18:31 putter TimToady: so what is a "oneliner" definition of ; ?
18:33 TimToady well, the real definition is being worked out, but the oversimplified meaning is that anything to the right of a semicolon is treated as
18:33 TimToady Any unless the information to the left is insufficient to determine a unique function.
18:34 particle_ does the following look (more) correct for the signature rule body?
18:34 particle_    $<invocants>:=(<parameter>? [, <parameter>]* <':'>)?
18:34 particle_    $<paramlist>:=(<parameter>? [, <parameter>]*)
18:35 rafl putter: So it's probably breaking because of ~/.ghc.
18:36 TimToady you can't have multiple parameters before the colon.
18:36 particle_ ah, in that case: $<invocants>:=(<parameter> <':'>)?
18:36 putter TimToady: if the information to the left is insufficent, but a few parameters later we are down to a unique, are the remaining params Any?
18:37 TimToady see ./misc/pX/Common/mmd-draft.txt
18:38 merlyn should Devel::Caller fail badly on OSX?
18:39 putter mmd-draft.txt doesn't seem to have changed since I last saw it...
18:39 TimToady $<invocant>:=(<parameter>? <':'>)?
18:39 merlyn I'm trying to install the new v6.
18:42 putter sigh.  I keep running the same mind path.  perhaps needs to be a note in mmd-draft.  to wit,
18:42 arguile joined perl6
18:45 Limbic_Region fglock - Juerd had fixed it once, but apparently some upgrade has reverted the change
18:45 Limbic_Region Juerd ping
18:46 fglock merlin: audreyt tested in OSX, afaik
18:47 Limbic_Region audreyt - the Makefile.PL fix did not fix the Win32 build
18:47 * Limbic_Region tries again just in case there was a fix checked-in that he didn't see
18:49 svnbot6 r11212 | fglock++ | Pugs-Compiler-Rule - implemented '<@rules>' in :ratchet mode
18:49 weinig is now known as weinig|away
18:50 Limbic_Region interesting nmake realclean is b0rk now
18:51 particle_ if you updated your working copy and files/dirs were shuffled, realclean may break
18:51 particle_ unless you regenerate the makefile
18:51 Limbic_Region particle_ - well, first perl Makefile.PL was b0rk (audreyt fixed)
18:52 Limbic_Region so then I did a realclean, svn'd up, and did a nmake
18:52 particle_ which compiler on win32?
18:52 Limbic_Region that bombed not too far into the make so I did a nmake realclean again (to see if there was another update since I was AFK)
18:52 Limbic_Region but that failed
18:52 Limbic_Region which compiler?
18:52 Limbic_Region GHC 6.4.1
18:53 particle_ oh
18:53 Limbic_Region er 6.4.2
18:53 Limbic_Region and AS perl 5.8.8 though it really isn't doing any of the compiling
18:54 * Limbic_Region is attempting another nmake to see if the previous problem is still present and will nopaste accordingly
18:55 particle_ ouch... Devel::Caller tests just broke perl
18:55 particle_ (segfault)
18:56 Limbic_Region well, they don't call it Devel for nothing ;-)
18:56 putter given (Int;Int;Int,Int) (Int,Num,Int,Int) (Int,Int,Num,Int) (Int,Int,Int,Num) and (10,11,12,13),  with the sigs taken pairwise, 1&2 -> 1, 1&3 -> 3, 1&4 -> 1.  no ambiguities.  are all those intended?
18:56 merlyn heh
18:57 putter rafl: any tests you want me to run before heading out?
19:00 Aankh|Clone joined perl6
19:00 particle_ merlyn: Devel::Caller breaking badly on win32, too
19:01 Limbic_Region pugs is currently b0rk on Win32
19:01 merlyn it's broken all over, then, not just me.  good.  as long as others are sharing my pain. :)
19:01 Limbic_Region both nmake
19:01 Limbic_Region and nmake realclean
19:02 pasteling "Limbic_Region" at 129.33.119.12 pasted "Win32 nmake failure" (94 lines, 5.2K) at http://sial.org/pbot/18245
19:03 frederico joined perl6
19:03 putter no, my examples are broken, let's see...
19:03 * particle_ notices a new version of Devel::Caller on cpan today
19:03 particle_ perhaps the older Devel::Caller works better
19:06 stevan putter: come to the offices,.. I am bored,.. they are babbling about ASTs
19:06 pasteling "Limbic_Region" at 129.33.119.12 pasted "In addition to the nmake failure nopaste, here is the nmake realclean failure for Win32" (58 lines, 5.1K) at http://sial.org/pbot/18246
19:07 spinclad rafl: same question as putter
19:09 * spinclad heads out now too &
19:10 spinclad (about 45 min trip)
19:10 * putter stops composing mmd cases
19:10 putter ok, off to 'thon.  (about a 5 min trip;)
19:10 putter &
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19:17 svnbot6 r11214 | audreyt++ | * SVG diagrams for old, and new, runtimes
19:21 svnbot6 r11215 | audreyt++ | * p6ast.hs - sync with gaal on examples of new runcore
19:22 amv joined perl6
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19:51 svnbot6 r11216 | gaal++ | * Bundle::Pugs::SmokeKit has been obsoleted in favor of Task::Smoke
19:52 Limbic_Region ok - so do any of the thon'ers know why Win32 is b0rk?
19:53 audreyt Limbic_Region: I think I fixed it
19:54 Limbic_Region k
19:55 * Limbic_Region tests now
19:55 Limbic_Region oh audreyt - my wife said the following about you when she saw your pic "she is pretty and she must be smart"
19:55 cognominal joined perl6
19:56 theorbtwo She can tell that from a photo?
19:56 Limbic_Region well the pretty part is mostly subjective so - yes
19:57 Limbic_Region the smart part - I have no idea why she said that
19:57 Limbic_Region perhaps it is because she doesn't often see me oogling pictures of hot female hackers and assumed for audreyt to be there - she must be smart
19:58 * Limbic_Region wasn't capable of conveying the extent to how smart but it made me laugh when she said it
20:00 svnbot6 r11217 | fglock++ | v6 - added lib/Pugs/Grammar/P6Rule.pm - Rule grammar translated to P5
20:01 clkao oh bloody scary
20:01 Limbic_Region audreyt - still b0rk
20:01 Limbic_Region will nopaste the results in case they are different
20:01 audreyt ok
20:02 pasteling "Limbic_Region" at 129.33.119.12 pasted "lastest Win32 nmake failure" (136 lines, 7.5K) at http://sial.org/pbot/18247
20:02 Limbic_Region testing nmake realclean to see if *that* is also still b0rk
20:04 Limbic_Region nope, nmake realclean still b0rk too
20:05 audreyt Setup.exe: ..\..\gcc-lib\ld.exe: runProcess: does not exist (No such file or directory)
20:05 audreyt hm.
20:05 audreyt where is gcc-lib\ld.exe originally?
20:05 audreyt is it in your c:\ghc\
20:06 * Limbic_Region doesn't have a c:ghc\
20:06 audreyt ok, where is your ghc?
20:06 audreyt c:\Gat\ghc
20:06 Limbic_Region everything is under C:\gat\<root>
20:06 Limbic_Region yep
20:06 audreyt is there a ld.exe under c:\Gat\ghc ?
20:06 Limbic_Region so let me find ld.exe
20:06 Limbic_Region C:\Gat\GHC\gcc-lib
20:06 Limbic_Region it's the only one there
20:07 audreyt ok
20:07 audreyt thinking
20:07 audreyt is ghc.exe in c:\gat\ghc\ghc.exe ?
20:07 Limbic_Region I do have mingw on this box btw - it is in the PATH later though
20:08 Limbic_Region c:\gat\ghc\bin\ghc.exe
20:08 Limbic_Region fwiw - this is a bin install with no tweakage on my part
20:08 audreyt understood
20:10 ajs Revisions to S29 away... I'm finally very, very slightly ahead of the curve ;)
20:11 rafl spinclad: I thought it's working for you now..
20:12 audreyt clkao: fixed
20:14 audreyt Limbic_Region: if you copy c:\Gat\ghc\gcc-lib into the pugs tree
20:14 audreyt does it suddenly work?
20:14 svnbot6 r11218 | audreyt++ | * Handle ./pugs -BPerl5 -e 'use Test' by recognizing lack of package
20:14 svnbot6 r11218 | audreyt++ |   as the main progrem in v6.pm
20:14 svnbot6 r11219 | fglock++ | v6 - parser does rules! ' rule xxx { a.b$ } '
20:14 audreyt (it's not the correct fix, just diagnosis)
20:16 kolibrie fglock++
20:16 ajs fglock: that's very cool.
20:16 audreyt ooh, bootstrap.
20:17 audreyt today seems to be the day of bootstraps; stevan just got Class::MOP's immutable (fast) object layout bootstrap itself, so all metaobjects are suddenly fast
20:17 notThis joined perl6
20:18 kolibrie oooh, stevan++
20:19 spinclad_ joined perl6
20:20 Limbic_Region audreyt - checking now, was AFK
20:20 fglock joined perl6
20:21 audreyt Limbic_Region: ok. is ghc in PATH?
20:21 Limbic_Region you want all the files copied - or the dir itself
20:21 audreyt the dir itself with all files in it
20:21 Limbic_Region c:\gat\ghc\bin is
20:21 kolibrie fglock: we all noticed r11219
20:21 audreyt fglock: regex and tokens too?
20:22 svnbot6 r11220 | audreyt++ | * runcompiler.hs - use rawSystem to avoid whitespace trap
20:22 svnbot6 r11220 | audreyt++ |   on dirs with whitespace.
20:22 fglock kolibrie: cool - I used compile_p6grammar to translate the grammar
20:22 fglock audreyt: yes
20:22 Limbic_Region audreyt - svn up'ing now
20:23 kolibrie fglock: cool, I'll have to look and see what improvements it has grown since I last touched it
20:23 fglock it's not hooked in emitter yet
20:23 xdg joined perl6
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20:25 kolibrie one step at a time
20:26 notThis left perl6
20:27 Limbic_Region audreyt - if this does make the problem magically go away - what is the *right way* to fix it?
20:27 vel joined perl6
20:28 Limbic_Region cause it appears to be compiling now
20:28 nothingmuch joined perl6
20:31 audreyt Limbic_Region: the right way is to fix findpath
20:32 Limbic_Region findpath is in build_util.pl ?
20:32 nothingmuch clkao_: how do we plan on picking up the car?
20:32 nothingmuch walk over?
20:33 Limbic_Region though I am not sure I see how to fix it
20:33 kolibrie nothingmuch: six people
20:33 Limbic_Region gcc-lib is not part of my PATH
20:33 Limbic_Region so walking the path is out
20:33 nothingmuch kolibrie: moose pie
20:33 nothingmuch what do six people have to do with it?
20:33 TimToady joined perl6
20:34 kolibrie six strong people
20:34 kolibrie for lifting
20:34 nothingmuch oh
20:35 nothingmuch i doubt six are enough
20:35 nothingmuch 1500 k / 6 is quite a bit
20:35 nothingmuch i doubt i can lift 200+ kilos
20:35 kolibrie me neither
20:35 Limbic_Region audreyt - must go now, will touch base with you tomorrow if it isn't fixed by then ;-)
20:35 szbalint audreyt: Is there a way I can work around that Data.Yaml.Syck b0rk? I can't build Pugs without that to test your fix.
20:37 clkao nothingmuch: sure
20:38 nothingmuch clkao: so we should leave roughly now
20:38 audreyt szbalint: give me shell?
20:38 clkao i think we can be late a bit
20:38 szbalint audreyt: ok
20:39 nothingmuch clkao: when i looked up 18:00 it said "there are no open rental agencies at the hour you selected"
20:39 nothingmuch maybe we can use jesse's car and two drivers?
20:40 clkao nothingmuch: uhm, the opening hours saz till 1800
20:40 nothingmuch clkao: oh
20:40 nothingmuch okay
20:40 nothingmuch i didn't read the sign
20:46 szbalint audreyt: see pm for details.
20:46 spinclad_ rafl: it is... was wondering if any tests i could do would help (like reregister by hand in ~/.ghc, watch wrapper want to register in global)
20:47 spinclad_ but now i'm away.  could try things on feather (where sudo is not an option anyway)
20:56 fglock clkao: how about making Data::Bind optional for now - default to the old behaviour if it is not installed
20:56 weinig|away is now known as weinig
20:57 clkao fglock: why? then things will break
20:57 clkao no named args
20:57 fglock clkao: I can't run in windows :(
20:58 fglock I'm only testing simple statements
20:58 clkao i thought audrey made the windows
21:00 fglock we can make it proceed with warnings
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21:07 svnbot6 r11221 | fglock++ | v6 - added "invalid rule syntax" message
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21:16 rafl spinclad_: Nothing is registering globally anyway. I could only think of problems when things are already registered in ~/.ghc..
21:16 unobe audreyt: uploaded latest smoke test with PUGS_EMBED=perl5, and created new image file @ unobe.com/packages/pugs-6.2.12-OSX-10.4.dmg
21:24 audreyt woot
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21:32 spinclad_ rafl: i was seeing attempts to register globally before i got rid of ~/.ghc entries... audreyt was working with Limbic_Region last night with a manual fix step of C<sudo ../../Setup install> to succeed in registering globally
21:32 spinclad_ can we detect old ~/.ghc entries and remove them?
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21:40 svnbot6 r11222 | fglock++ | v6 - placeholder for rules in emitter;
21:40 svnbot6 r11222 | fglock++ | - "Useless use of a variable in void context at (eval 200) line 71."
21:47 clkao audreyt: what's the win32 data::bind situation?
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22:06 svnbot6 r11223 | fglock++ | Pugs-Compiler-Rule - fixed a problem with each() initialization in the
22:06 svnbot6 r11223 | fglock++ | emitters
22:06 vsoni seen audreyt
22:06 jabbot vsoni: audreyt was seen 42 minutes 5 seconds ago
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22:12 svnbot6 r11224 | fglock++ | v6 - emits code for 'token { <a> }'; untested! - needs more work on parameters
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22:17 fglock it's now possible to implement s/// with p6 rule syntax inside
22:19 fglock &
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22:22 gaal TimToady /audreyt: L<06/"Immutable types"> is missing a Tuple type.
22:23 TimToady s/Tuple/Seq/
22:23 TreyHarris TimToady: what should I do with typos in Synopses?  send you a diff?
22:23 gaal ah.
22:23 TimToady TreyHarris: that works
22:24 gaal TimToady: but that implies only positional lookup, doesn't it?
22:24 rgs TimToady: audreyt: I'd love to have your advice on http://www.xray.mpe.mpg.de/mailing-lis​ts/perl5-porters/2006-07/msg00148.html
22:24 TimToady we wanted to avoid conflict with the relational meaning of tuple.
22:24 lambdabot Title: "state variables progress"
22:24 gaal TimToady: what about "simple" immutable records?
22:25 gaal are those simply locked mappings?
22:26 gaal I don't know how important this is, but haskell gives records you can query either by position or by name.
22:27 TimToady rgs: 1 is fine.  assignment to (state $x) is basically just erroneous, and they should be glad if they get a warning.
22:27 rgs TimToady: OK. this one was my favourite actually. :)
22:28 TimToady gaal: I suppose.  I'm not entirely sure how much we distinguish these things by type, and how much we can just recognize immutability as an optional "feature" of mutable types.  I suspect Audrey has a clearer idea about this...
22:29 TimToady perhaps captures can be made to cough up their named associations sequentially somehow...
22:31 TimToady even a hash can give you the elements in an order, if you don't mind random order. :)
22:31 gaal :) yes, I noticed the ordedness of Mapping isn't specced...
22:31 TimToady but Perl doesn't really care to confuse the Array and Hash roles...
22:32 TreyHarris oh, c'mon.  it worked so well for PHP *choke8
22:32 TimToady on the other hand, it certainly doesn't care if you wnat to define an object with both roles.
22:32 TimToady after all, captures do just that...
22:33 TimToady but not with the same data
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22:34 TreyHarris TimToady: that's what i thought, but why doesn't this work then:
22:34 TreyHarris ?eval my $z = \($x, $y, :a, :!b); say $z<a>
22:35 evalbot_11168 Error: Undeclared variable: "$x"
22:35 TreyHarris oops.  well, it doesn't work even if you declare them :-)
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22:35 TimToady I don't think captures are completely implemented yet.
22:36 TreyHarris ok.  so that *should* work, and say "1"?
22:36 TimToady I seem to recall it was one of the things that was waiting on .12
22:36 TimToady yes, it should, I think.
22:37 TimToady or rather, probably "Bool::True".
22:44 gaal the forky view could be useful in XML<->Capture mappings, or maybe not.
22:44 gaal I mean, does $node<foo> mean attribute foo or a child node <foo/>
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22:55 ingy hola
23:01 TimToady gaal: I would take it to be attribute foo.  There's no guarantee of uniqueness for child node <foo/>.
23:10 gaal sure. XML-Simplisti^H^H^H^He nonwithstanding.
23:10 svnbot6 r11225 | audreyt++ | * change the ref. implementation for multi-dispatch to
23:10 svnbot6 r11225 | audreyt++ |   cover the new change proposed by spinclad++:
23:10 svnbot6 r11225 | audreyt++ |     each variant eliminates itself at semicolon points
23:10 svnbot6 r11225 | audreyt++ |     if it's lost at that level.
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23:42 kolibrie audreyt: can send me your .vimrc (or at least your minibufexpl.vim settings)
23:44 gaal kolibrie: just put that file in ~/.vim/plugins/
23:44 gaal (nad hi :)
23:44 gaal *and
23:44 kolibrie gaal: moose!
23:45 kolibrie gaal: but I want my filenames down at the bottom
23:49 gaal heh, interestingly I don't see an obvious setting for that
23:50 kolibrie it's a very long file to browse through looking for settings
23:52 * kolibrie thought audreyt might have other nifty things set up, too
23:55 kolibrie shower &

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