Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2006-07-11

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:25 Steve_p joined perl6
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00:31 dmsantam joined perl6
00:31 dmsantam omg.. are we _all_ waiting for perl6?!
00:32 SamB no
00:32 dmsantam phew!
00:32 dmsantam so what are we all doing here
00:32 SamB well, many people are working on it and talking about it and stuff
00:33 ludan joined perl6
00:33 SamB probably more have stopped working on it but never took the channel off their auto-join list...
00:33 dmsantam oh ok :)
00:34 Steve_p Some come and go and so on...
00:34 dmsantam 6.2.12 is released?
00:34 dmsantam (topic)
00:35 Steve_p pugs 6.2.12 was released
00:35 Steve_p For lack of a better term, its a prototype.
00:36 dmsantam OH.. yes, the haskell thing
00:36 dmsantam :)
00:38 Steve_p dmsantam: yep
00:38 dmsantam :)
00:43 bsb joined perl6
00:55 ivanfrey I can't seem to subscribe to perl6-compiler@perl.org. Do I send mail to perl6-compiler-subscribe@perl.org?
00:56 ivanfrey As quoted on the pugcode.org home page.
00:56 mugwump List-Subscribe: <mailto:perl6-compiler-subscribe@perl.org>
00:56 mugwump check that your envelope from matches your From:
00:57 mugwump I have a vague recollection of that being required
00:59 ivanfrey mugwump: Hmmmmmm, how do I subscribe my address at the University of Toronto, I don't use my ISP address for anything.
01:00 Administrator joined perl6
01:03 mugwump ivanfrey: are you getting bounces back?
01:04 mugwump audreyt: what did you use to colorize your perl6 ?
01:05 ivanfrey mugwump: I've got one bounce back, which I deleted. I've attempted to subscribe again, but it obviously isn't getting through so it'll get bounced when the retry period timesout.
01:07 ivanfrey mugwump: maybe I'll setup a different identity in Thunderbird to handle this situation. So my From has to match the from on the envelope?
01:08 ivanfrey When I'm in cpan interactive mode, the text is in a awful lime green colour.
01:09 mugwump like I said, it's a vague recollection.  perhaps the bounce will be more informative.
01:09 mugwump maybe you still have it, if you haven't compacted your mailbox?
01:11 ivanfrey mugwump: I'll wait for the second bounce. I'm always compacting my Inbox.
01:11 * mugwump finds perl6.vim
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01:31 svnbot6 r11427 | markstos++ | simple typo fix
01:37 svnbot6 r11428 | fglock++ | v6 - 'use v5; xxx; use v6;'
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01:46 svnbot6 r11429 | fglock++ | v6 - Perl6Prelude - inlined perl 5 code in sleep() and exit() with 'use v5'
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02:13 audreyt mugwump: VimColor on cpan
02:19 mugwump audreyt: cool, thanks
02:19 audreyt np :)
02:20 audreyt bbiab... &
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03:52 Daveman Greetings, all.
03:56 audreyt greetings.
03:58 pingu is now known as cdhotpingu
04:01 nothingmuch greetings
04:01 nothingmuch i can't believe i just said that
04:02 audreyt why not?
04:02 obra could be worse
04:02 obra you could have said 'gleetings'
04:11 ivanfrey I'm still having problems building pugs. I try run ranlib on libHSpugs-HsSyck-0.1.a and libHSpugs-fps-0.7.a, but the make process just recreates them all over again.
04:12 ivanfrey oh! My bad again the make process is probably copying it from the original in dist/build.
04:18 nothingmuch because "greetings" is a geek greeting
04:18 nothingmuch i try to be a little less "technical" than that
04:18 nothingmuch you might as well say "i greet you"
04:18 nothingmuch for me the how is important
04:18 nothingmuch ;-)
04:20 obra nothingmuch! I greet you!
04:20 nothingmuch obra: hi!
04:22 ivanfrey No, I ran ranlib on both copies ./third-party/HsSyck/dist/build/libHSpugs-HsSyck-0.1.a and ./third-party/installed/lib/pugs-HsSyck-0.1/libHSpugs-HsSyck-0.1.a, but I'm still requests to run ranlib on them.
04:29 ivanfrey audreyt: I think I have to run those alternative setup commands which I have forgotten. Why does the build process quit with third-party/HsSyck/../installed/lib/pugs-HsSyck-0.1/libHSpugs-HsSyck-0.1.a and pugs-fps-0.7/libHSpugs-fps-0.7.a have no table of contents when I've run ranlib on them.
04:30 audreyt ivanfrey: hm, check output from "make" on those two sections?
04:31 audreyt ivanfrey: or give me a shell to debug
04:31 ivanfrey I have mac os x.
04:31 ivanfrey What username do you want?
04:31 audreyt audreyt
04:32 audreyt cp -Rf the entire pugs/ to my home
04:32 obra I saw -Rf and did not see "cp"
04:34 aufrank audreyt and ivanfrey: I've had this problem too.  my fix has been to open a second terminal and run ranlib on the libraries in thirdparty/installed/ as soon as they're generated
04:34 audreyt wow
04:35 aufrank I also have to do make under sudo because the install part of Setup.hs needs sudo priveleges
04:35 audreyt and this is 6.4.2
04:35 audreyt or 6.4.1?
04:35 ivanfrey audreyt: in the mac os x case it's still 6.4.1.
04:36 aufrank I'm osx 10.3.9 and ghc 6.4.1
04:36 aufrank there's still a link on the ghc page that says binaries for osx for 6.4.2 are coming soon
04:37 ivanfrey aufrank: Hey that's mine platform too.
04:37 aufrank hooray for corner cases ;)
04:38 audreyt ivanfrey: I think I fixed it
04:39 audreyt try r1140
04:39 audreyt 11430
04:39 ivanfrey audreyt: You'll need a password on my system. I guess I'll need to generate a key so that you send your password to me encrypted
04:39 aufrank audreyt: I dropped in and reported this sometime around preflight-0, but didn't stick around to see if it got worked on.  Happy coincidence that I'm here now :P
04:39 audreyt ivanfrey: try it first :)
04:39 audreyt aufrank: well, better late than never, etc :)
04:39 svnbot6 r11430 | audreyt++ | * build_pugs.pl: ranlib for third-party.
04:39 audreyt aufrank: can you try it too?
04:40 ivanfrey audreyt: how do install 11430?
04:40 audreyt ivanfrey: did you not have a subversion checkout of pugs?
04:40 audreyt "svn up" in it will do
04:40 aufrank audreyt: still with sudo make for cabal?
04:40 audreyt if you don't, "svn co http://svn.openfoundry.org/pugs" will get you one
04:40 lambdabot Title: "Revision 11391: /"
04:41 audreyt aufrank: try chown everything including ~/.ghc* to yourself
04:41 audreyt aufrank: and try not run as root
04:41 audreyt just "make"
04:41 * audreyt sighs as this bug is already gone in GHC 6.4.2
04:41 audreyt maybe I should take up the releng mantle from wolfgang for GHC-OSX.
04:41 audreyt ...or maybe not.
04:42 aufrank you've got a bleeding ghc on your macbook, eh?
04:42 audreyt yeah, wouldn't run on macintel otherwise
04:42 aufrank bleeding-edge, I guess I meant
04:42 audreyt obra has a macppc
04:42 audreyt so if forced I guess I can releng on that
04:43 audreyt but first try the r11430 fix :)
04:43 audreyt compiling GHC on this macbook is fine
04:43 aufrank on it, but I won't have results for sure until this morning ;)
04:43 audreyt on a G4... I don't look forward to it.
04:43 aufrank I mean, tomorrow morning
04:43 audreyt aufrank: "make optimized" is like 10x faster.
04:43 audreyt er
04:43 ivanfrey audreyt: do i have to rerun perl Makefile.PL?
04:43 audreyt "make unoptimized"
04:43 audreyt ivanfrey: prolly not
04:43 audreyt just "make" again
04:45 ivanfrey I have a G4 and I don't think make takes more than a hour. though I could be wrong.
04:47 obra  audreyt also, I have a G5
04:47 obra just with too little ram
04:48 ivanfrey audreyt: make just failed again with those libraries. I'm running perl Makefile.PL.
04:48 audreyt ivanfrey: wait
04:48 audreyt that's not going to help :) give me a sec
04:50 audreyt try svn up again
04:50 svnbot6 r11431 | audreyt++ | * add some instrumentation
04:50 svnbot6 r11430 | audreyt++ | * build_pugs.pl: ranlib for third-party.
04:50 audreyt you should see instrumentation messages beginning in =======>
04:50 audreyt if not, something's wrong
04:51 audreyt ivanfrey: btw, if you are cutting me an account, put this as my ~/.ssh/authorized_keys
04:51 audreyt ssh-rsa AAAAB3NzaC1yc2EAAAABIwAAAIEA6y9P6+Kj9Gje1HskSthYiiypE1fgOQDAOUjtJ3yFL2bpFDbYhBIYS8E1cxWhNXO81y7kP06q/Ygy6VBjSFECsi957I90TNqpv3wG9ZizNnTeFQBiY/cfD/0e9iXPphgVThvUX1pMmDhHgrvMVDVaYhE45KcObdyxNXWrEVP8Jn0= [email@hidden.address]
04:52 audreyt (also at http://paste.husk.org/6214 )
04:53 aufrank you really get around the various paste services, audreyt ;)
04:53 aufrank links from every which way!
04:53 audreyt :)
04:54 aufrank ivanfrey: how far did you get in compiling before your build failed?
04:55 aufrank which component of pugs was building?
04:56 ivanfrey audreyt: *** Building: util/runcompiler -hide-all-packages -package stm -package network -package mtl -package template-haskell -package base -package pugs-fps -package pugs-HsSyck -package unix -package readline -package plugins -package haskell-src -idist/build -Ldist/build -idist/build/src -Ldist/build/src -o pugs src/Main.hs -lHSPugs-6.2.12 -threaded -optl-I/sw/include -optl-fno-common -optc-DPERL_DARWIN -op
04:56 ivanfrey tl-no-cpp-precomp -optl-fno-strict-aliasing -optl-pipe -optl-I/usr/local/include -L/sw/lib -L/usr/local/lib -L/opt/local/lib -L/sw/lib/perl5-core/5.8.6/darwin-thread-multi-2level/CORE -lperl -ldl -lm -lc /sw/lib/perl5-core/5.8.6/darwin-thread-multi-2level/auto/DynaLoader/DynaLoader.a
04:56 ivanfrey compilation IS NOT required
04:56 ivanfrey ld: archive: /Users/ivanfrey/dev/pugs/third-party/HsSyck/../installed/lib/pugs-HsSyck-0.1/libHSpugs-HsSyck-0.1.a has no table of contents, add one with ranlib(1) (can't load from it)
04:56 ivanfrey ld: archive: /Users/ivanfrey/dev/pugs/third-party/fps/../installed/lib/pugs-fps-0.7/libHSpugs-fps-0.7.a has no table of contents, add one with ranlib(1) (can't load from it)
04:56 ivanfrey Build failed: 256 at util/build_pugs.pl line 237.
04:56 ivanfrey make: *** [pugs] Error 2
04:57 aufrank ivanfrey: thanks
04:57 aufrank ivanfrey: for big pastes, you might want to check out the website listed in the topic for this channel
04:57 aufrank keeps the room clean ;)
04:57 ivanfrey aufrank: sorry about that.
04:58 aufrank no biggie
04:58 aufrank audreyt: are you in the post-hackathon secret hackathon yet?
04:58 * obra looks around.
04:58 obra Is this secret?
04:59 aufrank s/secret/double extra top secret/
04:59 cdhotpingu is now known as pingu
05:00 aufrank I'm on to you, obra ;)
05:01 obra Good thing too.
05:01 obra I almost got away with it
05:03 ivanfrey audreyt: In the ssh-rsa key above, the [email@hidden.address] is not part of the key?
05:03 audreyt ivanfrey: it is
05:03 audreyt ivanfrey: in any case, if you "svn up" now
05:03 audreyt and run "make"
05:04 audreyt do you not see the "===>" instrumentation messages?
05:05 aufrank audreyt: I failed on 11431, and I did see the messages about ar following the fat arrows
05:05 audreyt aufrank: ok. nopaste or paste those lines?
05:06 ivanfrey audreyt: Yeah, I saw them, but the build still failed.
05:06 mdiep cwest: ping
05:07 audreyt nvm, I got the bug
05:07 aufrank sorry, box is especially slow right now
05:08 svnbot6 r11432 | audreyt++ | * fix typo in build_pugs; ranlib should work now.
05:08 audreyt r11432 should Really Work (tm)
05:08 ivanfrey audreyt: I'll have to port forward ssh. What is the port #?
05:09 audreyt ivanfrey: try r11432 first :)
05:09 audreyt the port # is 22
05:09 svnbot6 r11433 | audreyt++ | * run-smoke: use v6, not pilrun, for "make smoke-perl5"
05:10 audreyt "svn up" and "make" should really work. hacker's honour :)
05:10 aufrank I'll hold you to that... somehow
05:11 ivanfrey audreyt: I'm doing a svn up now. sounds like it's finished.
05:12 aufrank I failed again here on r11433
05:12 audreyt aww, no
05:12 * audreyt ponders seppuku
05:12 aufrank nah, you just owe me a beer
05:13 aufrank that's hacker's honor, right?  "if this breaks, I owe you a cold one"
05:13 ivanfrey Revision 11433 I didn't see any instrumentation messages.
05:13 audreyt no, "if this breaks, you get to keep both pieces"
05:13 svnbot6 r11434 | audreyt++ | * oy. back to instrumentation
05:13 audreyt ivanfrey: but does the build fail?
05:13 audreyt aufrank: r11434, with instrumentation again
05:14 audreyt aufrank: this is in utils/build_pugs
05:14 audreyt line 76
05:14 audreyt the idea is to run $ar the time as you'd run ranlib
05:14 audreyt aufrank: so maybey ou can help debugging it so it does the same thing
05:14 audreyt I wonder if $ar is not found or something
05:14 ivanfrey audreyt: yeah, it failed here.
05:14 gaal morning
05:14 * audreyt looks to aufrank for debugging help
05:14 aufrank I can't guarantee that my strategy was going to work this time... it worked on preflights, though
05:14 audreyt aufrank: it havn't been changed afaics
05:15 aufrank I was partway through a build using my previous strategy when we started debugging
05:16 aufrank audreyt: that is when I was running ranlib, it's in the right place
05:17 audreyt so I suspect $ar isn't right
05:17 audreyt or something. please help :)
05:17 aufrank I can tell you that I had been doing sudo ranlib
05:18 aufrank but I can't tell you if that was making a difference
05:18 audreyt try and see?
05:18 audreyt kinda hoping that you can tweak line 76 in utils/build_pugs until it works :)
05:18 audreyt (and keep "make unoptimised")
05:20 aufrank audreyt: I am not seeing line 79 in my output
05:21 aufrank for either lib
05:22 aufrank audreyt: maybe one too many levels of subdirectories in your glob?
05:24 aufrank ok, think I got it now
05:24 aufrank I'll check it in if it finishes
05:25 aufrank audreyt: leave the STDERR messages in or not?
05:25 aufrank we have a winner
05:25 audreyt leave it out
05:25 audreyt yay
05:25 audreyt aufrank++ aufrank++ ivanfrey++
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05:28 svnbot6 r11435 | aufrank++ | fixed directory glob for running ranlib in thirdparty.  worked for me.
05:28 audreyt whre.
05:28 audreyt whew.
05:29 aufrank what's a /*/ between friends
05:31 ivanfrey audreyt: ok, you have an admin account here. I've copied the pugs subversion repository to your ~/public/Drop\ Box/ .
05:33 audreyt danke
05:33 audreyt ivanfrey: but aufrank just fixed it for you :)
05:34 ivanfrey audreyt: but I am in the process of trying 11435.
05:35 audreyt that's the fix
05:35 svnbot6 r11436 | audreyt++ | * build_pugs.pl: chase Cabal build directory depths
05:35 aufrank audreyt: it looks like I may be making a trip to .tw or .cn within the next 6 months or so
05:36 Aankhen`` joined perl6
05:36 audreyt hm, glob() in scalar context is iterator in perl5
05:36 svnbot6 r11437 | audreyt++ | * err, typo.
05:36 svnbot6 r11438 | audreyt++ | * another typo
05:36 audreyt I've just found something scary about perl5
05:36 audreyt print $
05:36 audreyt #################
05:37 audreyt # this is crazy #
05:37 audreyt #################
05:37 audreyt ARGV[0];
05:37 ivanfrey audreyt: do I gather. But the account is for any other debugging issue that might come up, whether or not I'm around or not. My computer is usually connected to the net 24/7 unless I've taken it to Italy.
05:37 audreyt # valid under warnings and strict
05:37 audreyt ivanfrey: okay. thanks!
05:37 audreyt aufrank: verify I didn't undo your work as of r11438?
05:37 audreyt (I may need to sleep soon)
05:38 ivanfrey I just finished an optimised build.
05:39 audreyt yay.
05:39 aufrank audreyt: just a sec
05:39 ivanfrey audreyt: but there are a number of warnings.
05:40 ivanfrey audreyt: how do I check my current version
05:41 ivanfrey audreyt: or revision, I mean.
05:41 audreyt ivanfrey: ./puvs -v |grep r
05:41 audreyt ivanfrey: ./puvs -v |grep Version
05:41 audreyt or "svn info"
05:45 audreyt but it's getting late...
05:45 audreyt good night, see you tomorrow :)
05:45 aufrank audreyt: if I've done a sudo make install, I get permission errors during Setup on fps and HsSyck.  if I chown everything back to myself I build with no problems.
05:45 audreyt aufrank: problem is "sudo make install" did not preserve perms
05:45 audreyt for the deps
05:46 audreyt aufrank: I don't quite know how to fix it
05:46 aufrank yeah
05:46 audreyt maybe probe for owner and "su" back
05:46 audreyt or seteuid
05:46 audreyt or something
05:47 audreyt would be lovely if you or rafl or someone can give it some thought :)
05:47 * audreyt waves &
05:49 aufrank bye!
05:50 ivanfrey 11438 runs!
05:54 aufrank ok, I'm off now too
05:54 aufrank glad your system's up, ivanfrey
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05:55 ivanfrey aufrank: what are the incantations for running and uploading the Smoke tests
05:57 aufrank make smoke runs the suite and generates the report
05:57 aufrank I don't know about uploading
05:58 audreyt make upload-smoke
05:58 aufrank we're craft that way
05:58 aufrank s/craft/crafty/
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05:59 svnbot6 r11439 | audreyt++ | * mmd-draft.txt: Deal with union types correctly.  Note that
05:59 svnbot6 r11439 | audreyt++ |   it's not "junctional" anymore.
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06:04 pasteling "ivanfrey" at 72.136.69.198 pasted "Problem with Task::Smoke" (22 lines, 833B) at http://sial.org/pbot/18306
06:05 ivanfrey Goodnight all. I feel like a crack addict.
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06:23 audreyt try
06:23 audreyt cpan Test::TAP::Model Test::TAP::HTMLMatrix
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07:45 gaal ivanfrey: if you like, you can also edit config.yml and have make smoke upload results automatically from now on.
07:46 gaal nothingmuch: ping
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12:22 svnbot6 r11440 | clkao++ | Fix --exclude for smoke-perl5.
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12:25 svnbot6 r11441 | clkao++ | Set PERL5LIB for smoke-perl5 to use blib6/pugs/perl5/lib and arch.
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13:10 Limbic_Region anyone know what all this ghc.exe: file `s' does not exist is all about?
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13:14 nothingmuch morning
13:15 Jedai hello
13:15 svnbot6 r11442 | jedai++ | fix ewamples/qotw/008r/qa.pl
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13:21 svnbot6 r11443 | fglock++ | v6 - fixed infinite loops in Term parsing
13:21 svnbot6 r11443 | fglock++ | - Inf, NaN
13:22 clkao wow, we passed 8 more tests than yesterday
13:23 clkao fglock:
13:23 clkao t/builtins/strings/split.t
13:23 clkao t/oo/traits/parameterized.t
13:23 clkao t/statements/while.t
13:23 clkao t/subroutines/multidimensional_arglists.t
13:23 clkao t/subroutines/subroutine.t
13:23 clkao these are the tests hanging
13:27 fglock clkao: I did a few fixes - I'll try them again
13:32 meppl guten morgen
13:34 clkao fglock: with latest v6 it goes out of memory compiling test.pm
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13:35 fglock clkao: ok - I'll check
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13:53 archangle25 how do i get a date in yyyy-mm-dd format into seconds from epoch!?
13:53 fglock clkao: it compiles for me if I remove part of the pod - I'll try to optimize memory usage
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13:54 Limbic_Region archangle25 - this is a perl 6 channel, I think you probably want #perl
13:54 Limbic_Region if you are using perl 5 - the answer is using POSIX 'strftime'
13:54 Limbic_Region oh, oops
13:54 Limbic_Region misread - if in perl5 - you probably want a regex and Time::Local
13:55 Limbic_Region but really, this channel is for perl 6
13:55 archangle25 Limbic_Region, ty, but i made a booboo a while back and sent an amsg to my channels and got banned from #perl, how do i get unbanned!?
13:57 Limbic_Region *shrug* - dunno, I have never made the mistake of getting banned
13:57 Limbic_Region my guess would be to find someone willing to lobby on your behalf
13:57 Limbic_Region or send a /msg to an op (if you know who any are)
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13:58 bpphillips archangle25: perlmonks.org is a good place to ask those types of questions as well (and may already have the answers you're looking for in previous posts)
14:00 Limbic_Region oh yeah, perlmonks.org isn't IRC but it is hands down the best place to get help with perl
14:00 lumi Doth anyone know anything about ghc packages and why they don't want my pugs to build?
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14:01 Limbic_Region lumi - you are on Win32 right
14:02 Limbic_Region ?
14:02 lumi Limbic_Region: Nope. Mac
14:02 Limbic_Region interesting
14:02 Limbic_Region here is something you can try - it works around the problem for me on Win32 though it is definately not a proper fix
14:03 Limbic_Region copy the entire gcc-lib directory from your GHC root to your pugs root and try again (after a make realclean)
14:04 Limbic_Region if it is the same problem - it will work
14:04 Limbic_Region the reason being a recent change from using ghc in to util/runcompiler
14:04 Limbic_Region speaking of which
14:04 Limbic_Region rafl ping
14:05 hcarty joined perl6
14:05 lumi Thanks, we'll see what transpires :)
14:05 * lumi &
14:09 scw_ joined perl6
14:09 lumi I had to unregister fps-0.7 and now it's happy
14:11 Limbic_Region how did you unregister fps-0.7?
14:11 * Limbic_Region would like to try that as well
14:14 justatheory joined perl6
14:14 svnbot6 r11444 | fglock++ | added misc/pX/fglock/Pugs-Compiler-Rule
14:17 svnbot6 r11445 | fglock++ | rm Pugs-Compiler-Rule/temp
14:23 scw_ is now known as scw
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15:06 kolibrie TimToady: are your YAPC Perl 6 Update talk slides online?
15:10 Limbic_Region does anyone know how to "[10:09] <lumi> I had to unregister fps-0.7 and now it's happy" ?
15:10 Limbic_Region IOW - unregister fps-0.7
15:11 kanru joined perl6
15:12 kolibrie Limbic_Region: it's something like: ghc-pkg unregister fps
15:12 kolibrie or perhaps ghc-pkg unregister --user fps
15:13 kolibrie doing ghc-pkg list
15:13 kolibrie will show you where you fps packages reside
15:13 buetow joined perl6
15:14 clkao fglock: but it used to work correctly. did you change something ?
15:14 Limbic_Region kolibrie - playing now - thanks for the pointers
15:15 kolibrie Limbic_Region: just passing along what audreyt told me last week
15:18 fglock clkao: maybe the prelude is using up additional ram?
15:18 cls_bsd joined perl6
15:19 fglock clkao: I'm making some progress on PCR - it should allocate less strings in the next version
15:21 clkao no, i up'ed to before prelude
15:22 clkao it's the compile phase, should have nothing to do with prelude
15:22 svnbot6 r11446 | daxim++ | added tests for Math::Basic rounding suite
15:22 svnbot6 r11445 | fglock++ | rm Pugs-Compiler-Rule/temp
15:22 clkao when is the nxxt version merging back ? ;)
15:24 Jedai joined perl6
15:27 Limbic_Region kolibrie - thanks but no cigar
15:27 Limbic_Region lumi's mac problem isn't the same as my Win32 problem
15:28 kolibrie Limbic_Region: :(
15:29 Limbic_Region *shrug* - I have a work around audreyt plus plus so it isn't that big of a deal
15:29 Limbic_Region it would just be nice to know why it isn't working but rafl never seems to be around
15:29 Limbic_Region and audreyt says I should blame rafl
15:30 xinming joined perl6
15:33 fglock joined perl6
15:34 fglock clkao: my irc client died - out of ram :)
15:34 clkao orz
15:40 svnbot6 r11448 | fglock++ | px/fglock/PCR - passes t/01-iterator_engine.t
15:41 fglock bbiab
15:42 Yappo joined perl6
15:44 rgs joined perl6
15:46 rgs joined perl6
15:48 daxim time pugs/pugs -e'"hello world!".say'  ---->   real    0m38.361s
15:51 mauke real    0m1.964s
15:51 daxim :(
15:54 kudra joined perl6
15:55 gaal daxim: please ls blib6/lib and see if there's a Prelude.pm there
15:55 kudra audrey: are you around?
15:55 gaal also, did you 'make unoptimized'?
15:55 gaal kudra: moose!
15:55 kudra just said hi to you in the other window, gaal :)
15:56 gaal we're too fast for each other :)
15:56 daxim no, there's no Prelude.pm.  I made with default target, i.e. optimised
15:56 kudra I thought you were jet lagged.  And I feel like I'm jet lagged.
15:57 gaal daxim: type 'make' again and see if it's created?
15:57 daxim ok, this will take some time.
15:57 gaal shouldn
15:57 gaal 't
15:58 gaal because the haskell targets are already built.
15:58 gaal there'll be a relink and some precompilation.
15:59 gaal s/(Prelude.pm)/$1.yml/ above
16:07 gaal gotta run, bye&
16:07 takesako joined perl6
16:08 Provito is now known as Prov
16:09 nothingmuch joined perl6
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16:41 kudra left perl6
16:49 Aankhen`` joined perl6
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16:51 ruoso joined perl6
16:52 TimToady kolibrie: weren't my slides--they were TheDamian's...
16:52 kolibrie oh, does he have them online?
16:53 TimToady dunno
16:53 kolibrie :(
16:54 * kolibrie is trying to build excitement for Perl 6 at $work
16:55 TreyHarris who is the list moderator for p6-l?
16:59 TreyHarris ah, nevermind, i guess my other address has posting privileges as well
17:07 svnbot6 r11451 | audreyt++ | * 02-28-parrot.pod, kudra's correction.
17:15 svnbot6 r11452 | audreyt++ | * add links to RT tickets; C<>
17:19 clkao win 23
17:19 clkao nothingmuch: moose
17:20 clkao nothingmuch: so, i want some comments from tap to be captured by perhaps a subclass of tap::model
17:20 clkao nothingmuch: can you make that happen?
17:20 nothingmuch clkao: comments?
17:21 nothingmuch diag() output?
17:21 clkao like diag
17:21 nothingmuch they are already captured
17:21 clkao with special formats
17:21 nothingmuch and attached to the last subtest
17:21 clkao (!)
17:21 clkao nothingmuch: i love you
17:21 nothingmuch if the diag output is emitted before any subtest it's orphanned
17:21 nothingmuch and special cased in the output as a grey square
17:21 nothingmuch =-)
17:21 clkao so it's accessible by the model?
17:21 clkao what do you use it fo ?
17:22 nothingmuch mouseover in the html matrix will display the diag
17:22 svnbot6 r11454 | audreyt++ | * fix L<>.
17:22 nothingmuch just so you can know why stuff failed
17:23 hexmode joined perl6
17:25 shachaf joined perl6
17:31 nothingmuch audreyt: trying ritalin
17:31 audreyt nothingmuch: have fun
17:31 nothingmuch wish me luck
17:31 nothingmuch got many small stuff
17:32 nothingmuch how fast am I supposed to feel it?
17:32 audreyt around 10~20mins
17:32 nothingmuch okay
17:32 * nothingmuch will try to pay attention and see what actually happens
17:32 audreyt the first 5 mins may feel uncomfortable (light coughing, etc) as your system is not used to it
17:32 audreyt but it should be okay afterwards.
17:32 nothingmuch okay
17:33 nothingmuch any nausea involved?
17:33 audreyt if any, very light, and only in the first few mins
17:33 audreyt but YMMV
17:34 nothingmuch yes
17:34 * Limbic_Region has taken adderall before but isn't sure how close it is to ritalin chemically
17:35 audreyt adderall is time-released but pretty much the same thing, iirc
17:37 * Limbic_Region really didn't notice the effects except when it induced hyper-focusing
17:38 audreyt ...and when you are hyper focusing you didn't notice these things anyway
17:38 weinig|work is now known as weinig
17:39 Limbic_Region not during no - after
17:40 SamB are we talking about for people with ADD or not?
17:40 Limbic_Region mostly though I think I have already developed patterns of behavior that keep my tendencies (not officially diagnosed) in check
17:40 stevan ADD? where? ... sorry I was not paying attention
17:40 stevan Limbic_Region: I am the same way, $work dictates that I context switch easily and frequently
17:41 nothingmuch audreyt: Pod::Simple::Text is good for a base class?
17:41 svnbot6 r11456 | fglock++ | px/fglock/PCR - more tests
17:41 Limbic_Region stevan - well, having read "Driven To Distraction" I realized that if I did have ADD, I always have had it and developed ways to balance it early on
17:42 SamB I've ADD
17:42 stevan Limbic_Region: I scored higher on the "Do you have ADD" test then most of all my exam scores in high school :)
17:42 Limbic_Region though I almost did flunk out of HS, never matriculated into college, and have not been able to have a serious relationship until recently (we just had our 2 year anniversary)
17:42 Limbic_Region stevan - is this one you get off the net or one administered by a psychological professional?
17:42 stevan SamB: welcome :)
17:42 nothingmuch SamB: audrey, stevan, Alias, ingy and shapr are all fairly certain I have ADD
17:42 stevan Limbic_Region: admined by a pro :)
17:42 SamB I dunno what "balance" means
17:42 nothingmuch so i am trying ritalin to see if it makes me work better
17:43 nothingmuch and if it does, i'll go see a doctor
17:43 * Limbic_Region was rather peturbed by said individual when they wanted to just start treating me to "see what happens" without having administered such a test
17:43 audreyt nothingmuch: yeah P::S::T
17:43 SamB where are you that you can do it that way?
17:43 nothingmuch since that is the logical way to do this stuff, especially with brain chemistry drugs ;-)
17:43 stevan and if he has a seizure, I will take him to the hospital around the corner :)
17:43 stevan Limbic_Region: it is heavily over-diagnosed these days
17:43 audreyt ritalin at 10mg does _not_ induce seizure :)
17:44 * stevan sees it more as an evolutionary step :)
17:44 audreyt stevan: but seems to be a .us phenomenon
17:44 audreyt in .tw it's heavily under-diagnosed
17:44 Limbic_Region SamB - recognizing behavior and what causes it to go to extremes and then avoiding those behaviors (or doing more of something that has the same lessening effect)
17:44 stevan audreyt: yes, very much so
17:44 stevan we like our drugs and our status quo
17:44 SamB the problem is the schools are bad enough here to induce ADD symptoms in people who don't normally have them
17:44 audreyt I know ADD people who explained to the psychiartrist, over 3 attempts
17:44 Limbic_Region for instance, some people with ADD do well with lists as they allow them to not try to keep them juggled in their mind while others don't - knowing which is which for you will go a long way to being happy
17:45 Daveman Hello, all :)
17:45 audreyt and finally the doctor reluctantly prescribed to him... Prozac.
17:45 stevan ouch
17:45 audreyt (which of course doesn't help.)
17:45 stevan yes
17:45 stevan I personally did not like ritalin
17:45 SamB ooooooh, now I can be an ADD maniac!
17:45 stevan it worked, and worked very well,.. but I prefer my brain the way it is
17:45 SamB ... but its kind of depressing sometimes...
17:45 PerlJam I have "Can't get any work done" syndrome doctor.  What do I take for that?
17:45 Daveman are we discussing ADHD/ADD now?
17:46 Daveman o.O
17:46 stevan and my chemicals to be purely recreational (if at all)
17:46 stevan join #perl6-add
17:46 xerox :-)
17:46 SamB I get so defocused off meds... but maybe I just need to make it through withdrawel...
17:46 xerox stevan: did you ever try other remedies to ADD except ritalin?
17:46 stevan Daveman: ADD is the new acronym for MMD, just applied in the meat-space context
17:46 Limbic_Region SamB - another example of developing a pattern of behavior to be healthier and happier for me involves not thinking after 7PM on nights I have to go to work the next day
17:46 audreyt stevan++ # choice quote
17:46 Daveman ...
17:47 stevan xerox: yes, they were the same results
17:47 Limbic_Region my brain refuses to shut off otherwise so I intentionally watch mindless brain rotting television in the evening
17:47 SamB huh, I am not very good at that... "not thinking"... thing...
17:47 xerox stevan: what, if I can ask?
17:47 xerox SamB: so you are under medication?
17:47 SamB hmm, mindless television...
17:47 SamB xerox: yeah
17:47 stevan xerox: dexidrine, and one other whose name I dont recall
17:47 SamB right now I'm on some kind of adderal
17:47 fglock how about SUB, MUL, and DIV
17:47 xerox SamB: where do you live?
17:47 Daveman -_-
17:47 SamB US
17:48 Daveman heh
17:48 SamB but I was homeschooled, so I really do have ADD
17:48 Limbic_Region fglock - those look like rule names for a mathematical expression parser/evaluator ;-)
17:48 Daveman hahaha
17:48 xerox I think that if I was in the US I would be under medication too. Here in Italy the disease isn't taken much in consideration.
17:48 Daveman fucking americans :)
17:48 Daveman xerox, huhu :P
17:48 leptonix joined perl6
17:48 Daveman it's not a disease.
17:48 stevan its an evolutionary step :)
17:48 xerox SamB: homeschooling sounds like a very positive thing. How was for you, if I could ask... and we are not too off topic? :)
17:48 stevan we are the new humans!!!!!!!
17:48 * Limbic_Region also used to self-medicate with legal but otherwise inappropriate means
17:48 xerox Daveman: I think I agree with you :)
17:49 Daveman :)
17:49 Limbic_Region um - we have been OT for some time now
17:49 stevan *cough* ADD *cough*
17:49 Limbic_Region speaking of which - audreyt - do you know the best way to contact rafl about runcompiler?
17:49 SamB it was nice not to have grades, but I really hated the way my mom would drag me over the same problem again and again until I got it right...
17:49 audreyt Limbic_Region: hiveminder to his email? :)
17:49 SamB and I was always behind
17:49 * Daveman threatens stevan with his gentlemens deuling glove
17:49 nothingmuch audreyt: please commit your canonicalized
17:49 nothingmuch version of the L<> links
17:49 audreyt nothingmuch: did
17:50 audreyt already
17:50 SamB I don't think it helped that my mom has ADD too
17:50 nothingmuch oh
17:50 nothingmuch oops =)
17:50 Daveman whoa, you have a mom?
17:50 * stevan dodges Daveman's glove and runs back to $work
17:50 Limbic_Region I got his email address from his CPAN ID but didn't send one as I wasn't sure it was appropriate - what email addy to you have for him?
17:50 nothingmuch for some reason i thought I svk up -s'd already
17:50 xerox SamB: I see. Homeschooling the hard way.
17:50 SamB how do you homeschool without a mom?
17:50 xerox With wikipedia :D
17:51 SamB wikipedia doesn't make you do your schoolwork ;-)
17:51 * stevan got his CS education from old textbooks bought of Ebay
17:51 xerox Depends on your attitude :)
17:51 SamB I was always getting distracted on the compooter
17:51 audreyt Limbic_Region: rafl at debian
17:51 Limbic_Region yep
17:51 Daveman samb, being asian does :p
17:51 Limbic_Region thanks
17:51 Daveman or used to, anyway... :\
17:51 xerox I finished high school these days.
17:52 SamB I better take the dog out before I forget...
17:52 penk joined perl6
17:52 nothingmuch audreyt: aah
17:52 nothingmuch you canonicalized parrot
17:52 xerox But the academic places where I can go or the work position I can occupy are given by the background I developed off school, for one.
17:52 Daveman rafl?
17:52 nothingmuch but not the regular one
17:52 audreyt nothingmuch: yeah. the repost is only that section I guess
17:52 nothingmuch okay
17:52 Daveman rolling and flooring the linolium?
17:53 nothingmuch that's good enough input data for my converter
17:53 Daveman :p
17:53 nothingmuch sorry for the confusion
17:53 xerox Daveman: what brings you here? :)
17:53 Daveman the zerg!
17:54 Daveman or rather
17:54 Daveman this is where all the cool people hang out, right?
17:55 audreyt Daveman: I'm not sure, I know plenty of cool people who don't hang out here...
17:55 SamB heh, yeah
17:55 Limbic_Region audreyt - email sent
17:55 audreyt Limbic_Region: thanks
17:55 Daveman audrey, do they hang out -anywhere- on freenode, though? ;p
17:56 audreyt there are some cool people over at #svk too :p
17:56 Daveman :)
17:56 SamB there are some cool people in #haskell and #zsnes
17:56 SamB though Nach is a wicked slavedriver
17:56 Daveman perhaps the former
17:56 audreyt what's zsnes?
17:56 Limbic_Region oh, is there a way with svn/svk to make sure every single local file matches the repo?
17:56 Daveman crap?
17:56 xerox And #scheme and #prolog too.
17:57 SamB ZSNES is a super nintendo emulator
17:57 xerox audreyt: Super Nintendo emu :)
17:57 audreyt oh. cool.
17:57 Limbic_Region I intermittently get an error about a file being skipped and to run merge with tracksomethingorother on
17:57 Daveman MORDOR!
17:57 SamB it is written in nasty ASM
17:57 Daveman zsweet?
17:57 Daveman :p
17:57 SamB well, some of it is nasty anyway
17:57 SamB and parts of it are in C
17:57 Daveman so?
17:58 audreyt (bbiab, food)
17:58 SamB I'm actually helping with that
17:58 Daveman wow
17:58 Aankh|Clone joined perl6
17:58 clkao Limbic_Region: svk rmcache and svk st
17:58 Daveman you guys can afford food these days? :)
17:58 Limbic_Region thanks clkao
17:58 audreyt actually no, obra feeds me
17:58 * Limbic_Region works for the US Government and ducks
17:59 audreyt as is in the Chicago hackathon where stevan (among other people) feeds us
17:59 obra BPS has been feeding audrey a lot lately ;)
18:00 obra but hey, we get a lot of bang for our buck.
18:00 SamB is bang good to eat now?
18:00 audreyt aww.
18:00 audreyt bbiab &
18:03 Daveman :)
18:03 Daveman :p
18:04 xdg joined perl6
18:06 xdg I have a question about the semantics of "say": Should "say" terminate statements with "\n" or (Perl5ish) "$\"?
18:07 PerlJam xdg: The mailing list went over that a while back IIRC.
18:07 PerlJam xdg: I don't remember the outcome, but I continue to think of say as terminating with a "\n"
18:07 integral did both MLs go over it or just the p6 ones?
18:08 PerlJam p6l would be the only place I'd notice it.
18:08 xdg I mention it because I noticed that both Perl6::Say and IO::Handle (>1.23) use "\n"
18:08 audreyt xdg: $/ is supposedly per-filehandle
18:08 TimToady well, there is no $\ variable anymore, so that's part of it...
18:08 audreyt xdg: but it's not yet implemented
18:08 TimToady yes, such things should be per-filehandle attributes
18:09 xdg But should say() respect that per filehandle?  Or is it assumed to always produce a local newline?
18:10 TimToady newline is easier to teach.
18:10 xdg -Oteach?
18:11 xdg ;)
18:11 Southen_ joined perl6
18:12 xdg The thought I had about $\ (or Perl6 equivalent per filehandle) is that it could be useful to shift to "\r\n" for sockets, etc. and continue to use "say"
18:13 TimToady what you really want is a filehandle attribute that does s/\n/\r\n/g
18:13 TimToady (only in Perl 6. :)
18:15 * xdg makes a note to re-read synopses
18:16 TimToady I doubt any of the synopses discuss that...
18:16 xdg Thanks.  I was curious when I saw "\n" looking at code while trying to figure out why Perl6::Say was throwing warnings for redefining subs in IO::Handle.  (Whee!)
18:17 Southen_ joined perl6
18:17 clkao 4/win 23
18:18 xdg TimToady: Most of my understanding of Perl6 syntax/semantics is still from listening to the audio of your Israel talk.  Eventually, I do want to get deeper than that.  (If my brain will hold it.)
18:19 * Limbic_Region recommends xdg getting a Johnny Mnemonic upgrade
18:21 xdg Limbic_Region: I've already dumped portions of my childhood it seems, and it doesn't appear to give me more capacity elsewhere, as my wife will attest.
18:22 * Limbic_Region believes new hardware is required in addition to the dumping of prior wetware
18:23 xdg That would explain it.
18:23 xdg Anyway, thanks to all for the clarification on "say".  (Saves me from hassling Damian and Graham about it.)
18:25 pasteling "nothingmuch" at 71.234.68.135 pasted "sample ascii output with Pod::Simple link munging and shortening" (288 lines, 11.5K) at http://sial.org/pbot/18326
18:26 bpphillips left perl6
18:27 * audreyt discover Baking Chocolates makes poor lunch
18:27 SamB haha
18:28 nothingmuch okay
18:28 SamB baking chocolates... so bitter!
18:28 kudra joined perl6
18:28 nothingmuch also added shortening for uri's longer than 40 chars
18:28 nothingmuch hi kudra
18:28 pasteling "nothingmuch" at 71.234.68.135 pasted "sample ascii output with Pod::Simple link munging and shortening" (277 lines, 11K) at http://sial.org/pbot/18327
18:28 nothingmuch please have a look at that
18:28 nothingmuch that's the parrot summary in the plain text format
18:29 kudra looks okay to me
18:29 nothingmuch so
18:30 nothingmuch we use long html links in the pod
18:30 nothingmuch err
18:30 nothingmuch long links in the pod and html
18:30 nothingmuch and run the script i'm checking in right now instead of pod2txt
18:30 kudra so noted in my instructions
18:30 svnbot6 r11457 | nothingmuch++ | Summary to txt converter with uri shortening, etc
18:31 nothingmuch can i have the instructions copy?
18:31 nothingmuch i'd like to check it in
18:31 nothingmuch ritalin report, ca. 1 hr into the thing:
18:31 kudra It's kind of a mess right now, I added my own notes
18:31 nothingmuch i've been able to talk and code at the same time a little more
18:31 nothingmuch no nausea or caughing
18:31 nothingmuch i seem calmer
18:31 nothingmuch (legs not shaking as spontaneously)
18:32 kudra so no ill side effects?
18:32 nothingmuch none yet
18:32 nothingmuch in fact
18:32 nothingmuch i had a bitter taste in my mouth for 3 dadys now
18:32 nothingmuch it seems to be slightly improiving ;-)
18:32 Southen_ is now known as Southen
18:32 kudra that's what you get for drinking from random lakes
18:32 nothingmuch no, i get that occasionally anyway
18:33 nothingmuch it just passes after a while
18:33 audreyt nothingmuch: oh. if you feel calmer instead of hyperactive, then it's working as designed, and you should seek prescription :)
18:33 nothingmuch ==)
18:35 nothingmuch audreyt: please post the parrot announce in txt
18:35 svnbot6 r11458 | nothingmuch++ | short doc for summary_to_txt
18:35 nothingmuch or rather
18:35 nothingmuch kudra, please do that yourself =)
18:36 nothingmuch http://sial.org/pbot/18327?tx=on&amp;submit=Format+it%21
18:36 nothingmuch just skip my prompt
18:36 audreyt right. write to perl6-announce
18:36 kudra don't I need to be on that mailing list to post to it?
18:37 audreyt sure, so first subscribe by posting to perl6-announce-subscriber
18:37 audreyt sure, so first subscribe by posting to perl6-announce-subscribe
18:37 audreyt it's just for summaries and releases
18:37 audreyt so should see only light traffic
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18:53 kudra nothingmuch: done
18:53 nothingmuch huraah
18:53 audreyt kudra++
18:53 nothingmuch kudra+
18:53 nothingmuch kudra++
18:53 nothingmuch audreyt++
18:53 kudra let's all pat each other on the back, shall we? ;)
18:54 kudra nothingmuch++
18:54 kudra audreyt++
18:54 nothingmuch yes =)
18:54 nothingmuch this is the karma way
18:54 nothingmuch you make people appreciate the karma
18:54 nothingmuch and then thjey strive for it
18:54 nothingmuch and if you pre-karma them you can guilt them into actually getting work done
18:54 kudra I try to resist peer pressure.
18:54 stevan and if that doesnt work, just mention them in your blog
18:55 nothingmuch or even better
18:55 nothingmuch during a talk
18:55 nothingmuch (see also how xdg was made into win32 perl pumpking)
18:56 webmind nothingmuch, 'convince people over a beer, and then post it online as agreed' that kinda setup ?
18:56 nothingmuch webmind: yep
18:57 kudra why didn't we get you to agree to any projects on your birthday?  We certainly had you under the influence.
18:57 webmind perl6, build by manipulation. hmm doesn't really sound too good :)
18:57 nothingmuch kudra: you wooed me rather successfully on my birthday
18:57 nothingmuch i think that's enough for one evening =)
18:57 stevan webmind: it might be the manipulation which draws you in, but it's the -OFun which keeps you there
18:58 kudra and what are you going to do to me on my birthday?
18:58 nothingmuch i will probably send you a *hug* on IRC ;-)
18:58 * stevan thinks nothingmuch might have made a few deals with $diety while vomiting into the sink
18:58 * Limbic_Region doesn't care what it is as long as there are pictures >:-)
18:58 kudra it doesn't really count if I request it.
18:59 nothingmuch Limbic_Region: ask schwern/obra ;-)
18:59 nothingmuch so anyway
18:59 obra what am I doing?
18:59 stevan I am not sure I want to see *those* pictures
19:00 kudra I don't think there are any pictures of you being sick on your birthday.
19:00 nothingmuch i didn't think those were the pictures L~R was referring to
19:00 kudra I don't think they were either.
19:00 kudra I am still not sure if pictures were actually taken.
19:00 * stevan is not telling
19:01 stevan lets just say nothingmuch's salary dropped a few zeros after that night
19:01 nothingmuch haaaaa
19:01 nothingmuch no wonder i didn't get a check yet
19:02 vel joined perl6
19:03 prefiks kontrola
19:04 kudra Did it become something * 10^-x?
19:04 prefiks ups... wrong window
19:04 audreyt kudra: no, that will get more zeros
19:04 audreyt I'm sure stevan means he removed the prefix 0-pads
19:05 audreyt by switching from %080s to %80s, probably
19:07 hcarty :q
19:07 hcarty ack, apologies
19:07 nothingmuch audreyt++
19:08 kudra # what for?
19:08 nothingmuch protecting my significant zeros
19:08 nothingmuch and making a silly joke that i liked
19:13 cjeris Total beginner. If I type 'svn co http://svn.openfoundry.org/pugs/' will that be bad?
19:14 integral shouldn't be
19:14 SamB wouldn't it be better to check out the trunk only?
19:14 SamB or is there no trunk?
19:14 integral that si the trunk
19:14 SamB oh
19:14 integral pugs doesn't bother with branches :)
19:14 SamB heh
19:15 SamB they aren't very good in SVN compared to darcs anyways
19:17 flounder joined perl6
19:19 coumbes joined perl6
19:22 ajs SamB: what's wrong with subversion branching? I'm an old ClearCase and CVS user, so I'm fairly pleased with subversion's midpoint between the power of ClearCase and the simplicity of CVS....
19:22 SamB well...
19:22 SamB its better than CVS, I'm sure
19:23 SamB but I never would have attempted branching in CVS
19:23 SamB especially not with all the bad things in the manual about it...
19:23 ajs I do branching in CVS all the time. It's a pain, but workable
19:23 SamB try darcs on a multi-developer project for a time and then tell me you don't think that SVN is missing a little something
19:24 ajs OK.
19:24 ajs Anyone freaking out about my each question on p6l? I'm about to check in the doc....
19:27 svnbot6 r11459 | ajs++ | Update to each with signature and :parity
19:29 TreyHarris ajs: I was, but I spoke too late I guess--I was responding by email, not IRC...
19:31 larsen joined perl6
19:37 ajs no problem. there are problems anyway
19:37 ajs what's up?
19:37 ajs or should I just read mail?
19:37 jkanter joined perl6
19:38 ajs It turns out on re-reading Larry's comments in S29, he had already answered part of the each question... so I need to do a few things: implement what he arm-waved (a "longest but not infinite") and also make zip the one that returns an Iterator, not each. each returns lazy
19:38 ajs Then at least it will match Larry's idea of each. I take no stand on how anyone feels about Larry ;)
19:39 PerlJam ajs: So how does one tell zip when to stop?  It seems to me like you'd want to be able to do something like @x = zip(@a,@b,@c) but say "stop when @b runs out" or something
19:39 TreyHarris PerlJam: yes, that's the point I'm making in mail, but now my attention is split :-)
19:41 ajs PerlJam: There are three cases that I think are required to get that in any arbitrary case: Continue until all are exhausted (default); continue until longest non-infinite is exhausted (Larry's example); continue until shortest is exhausted (my example).
19:41 ajs If you have all three, you can combine them with nested calls to zip/each that get you anything you like.
19:42 ajs Though there might have to be some massaging to get zip/each to play nice (to get each to expand zip's tuples... that sounds so wrong)
19:42 PerlJam Hmm. that sounds like putting the work onto the programmer when it could be simple syntactically.  @x = zip(@a,@b:stop_on_empty,@c);  (or somesuch)
19:44 ajs Well, you're looking at what I consider to be the overly specific case. I think the general case is "I have N arrays, and I want to loop over them until some condition is met", no?
19:44 ajs This seems rather ugly: @x = zip(@a:stop_on_empty,@b:stop_on_empty,@c:stop_on_empty)
19:45 Khisanth joined perl6
19:45 xerox Eck.
19:46 ajs I dunno... we might need BOTH. :stop_on_empty is probably too wordy, though.
19:47 pmichaud seems to me as though zip deserves the adverb, not its arguments
19:47 pmichaud @x = zip(@a, @b, @c, :stop_shortest)
19:47 lambdabot Maybe you meant: . v
19:48 ajs pmichaud: that doesn't work. You can't pass @a,@b,@c to a slurpy. Well you can, but you don't get what you wanted.
19:49 ajs That would be @x = zip(:stop_shortest, @a;@b;@c) or @x = zip(@a;@b;@c, :stop_shortest)
19:49 ajs They're both just passing the named parameter :$stop_shortest set to 1
19:50 PerlJam ajs: so ... something like this?  @x = zip :{ $^a && $^b && $^c } @a, @b, @c
19:50 pmichaud okay; I came in the middle of this, so...
19:50 pmichaud just ignore me :-)
19:50 PerlJam ajs: where zip continues as long as the block returns a true value
19:50 TreyHarris ajs: heh, I should have paid attention here, not to my mail.  I just sent something rehashing all this.
19:51 ajs TreyHarris: That's fine
19:52 TreyHarris but yes, we need *three* things.  A boolean adverb to specify overall stopping behavior, a way to mark individual iterators as causing stoppage, and a way to mark individual iterators as not being considered in stoppage
19:52 ajs PerlJam: Yes, except you need semis and we don't have a slurpy sub handy for that purpose yet.... it's arguable that that's the right way to go, but I'm not sure I want to add that level of complexity just yet
19:53 ajs TreyHarris: Yes
19:54 kudra goodnight
19:54 ajs TreyHarris: I think it's two booleans (:fewest and :finite perhaps, though one permutation is redundant).
19:55 ajs kudra: night
19:55 kolibrie is there a way to tell if a pugs executable is built with embedded parrot or not?
19:56 ajs And then you need a way to say "@a :fewest" which would do something... cause an exception to be thrown on "eof" from @a's iterator which zip/each catches?
19:57 ajs And finally, the non-stoppage is probably the default
19:57 kolibrie I tried to make a pugs without embedded parrot after making one with it, but without a make realclean, and I am doubting that the second one is reading from an external parrot
19:58 ajs kolibrie: not sure.
19:58 kolibrie The real problem I am investigating is why my examples/rules/yapc_schedule.pl works on feather and not locally
19:58 kolibrie and thought it might be embedded parrot or not
20:00 ajs TreyHarris: Thoughts?
20:01 ajs I'm not trying to ram anything down anyone's throat, just trying to make sense of some edge cases.
20:01 ajs kolibrie: Linux?
20:02 kolibrie ajs: yes, debian
20:02 ajs strace may or may not give you some love
20:02 woremacx_ joined perl6
20:02 * kolibrie has never used strace
20:02 TreyHarris ajs: I'm thinking...
20:02 ajs TreyHarris: Cool
20:03 ajs kolibrie: It just tells you what system calls are being made. Massive spew of output, but if it runs an external parrot, then you know it's talking to parrot
20:03 kolibrie ajs: ooh, I could have used that a few times in the past
20:04 TreyHarris ajs: roundrobin, on the other hand, needs to default differently.  roundrobin([1,2],[3],[4,5,6]) should generate 1,3,4,2,5,6, but should have an adverb that would case it to generate [1,3,4,2,undef,5,undef,undef,6]...
20:05 ajs TreyHarris: So that's the inverse case. You need a :most for both the sub and the arrays.
20:05 ajs er Containers
20:06 ajs roundrobin probably does infinite by default though, so :finite still makes sense.
20:06 TreyHarris I'm trying to fully grok this... would my three examples in my mail be doable?
20:07 ajs Checking...
20:07 weinig is now known as weinig|away
20:08 ajs "stop once this iterator runs out" - yes. "Stop when anything besides this iterator runs out" - er... not that I can figure (how do you combine this with "Stop when any iterator runs out"?
20:09 TreyHarris they don't combine.  you either get less-than-sane behavior with a warning, or get an exception
20:10 TreyHarris ajs: unfortunately, i have to run to a meeting i'm already late for.  i will continue to cogitate.
20:10 TreyHarris &
20:10 ajs laters!
20:12 rzoz joined perl6
20:19 DaGo joined perl6
20:20 khisanth_ joined perl6
20:21 khisanth_ is now known as Khisanth
20:21 dmitri_ joined perl6
20:27 lollan joined perl6
20:30 khisanth_ joined perl6
20:31 khisanth_ is now known as Khisanth
20:33 FurnaceBoy joined perl6
20:36 svnbot6 r11460 | ajs++ | Another incremental update as the conversation continues: zip/each in a way that I think mergest Trey Harris, Lary and my concerns.
20:37 ajs ahem... "Lary"... opps
20:37 ajs oops even
20:46 nothingmuch aaaah
20:46 nothingmuch ingy's wp page was deleted
20:47 ingy why?
20:47 nothingmuch oh wait
20:47 nothingmuch it wasn't
20:47 nothingmuch hmm
20:47 nothingmuch why didn't my wp search work =/
20:47 nothingmuch odd
20:47 nothingmuch okay, we're ok
21:01 ajs nothingmuch: heh
21:01 ajs nothingmuch: have you followed the chatter on WP's talk page for Perl 6?
21:01 nothingmuch nope
21:01 nothingmuch just ingy ;-)
21:02 nothingmuch anything specific?
21:02 ajs nothingmuch: The guy who has been trolling the Perl article has started saying that some ancient and just plain WRONG diatribe from freshmeat "needs" to be linked to from the Perl 6 article ;)
21:02 nothingmuch oh
21:03 nothingmuch shlomi's article?
21:03 ajs yeah
21:03 Steve_p ajs: he watches this log file
21:03 Steve_p ...although he says that he's leaving Wikipedia for good
21:03 ajs he watches my comments on Wikipedia too, I'm sure, since he's been in that conversion. He knows my opinion of the article
21:04 FurnaceBoy he'll be in here in a moment or two
21:04 ajs It's not that I think he's not capable of better, but he made some very wrong statements there, and people called him on it.
21:04 FurnaceBoy a not infrequent occurrence
21:04 nothingmuch was it actually shlomi that added it?
21:04 daxim where is that freshmeat article?
21:04 nothingmuch well, at least wassercrats has sodded off recently =)
21:05 nothingmuch http://freshmeat.net/articles/view/1339/
21:05 lambdabot Title: "freshmeat.net: Editorials - Critique of Where Perl 6 is Heading"
21:05 FurnaceBoy nothingmuch, that's who we mean.
21:05 nothingmuch oh
21:05 ajs No one added it last I checked. But both he and wassercrats were suggesting that it was a good thing to do...
21:05 nothingmuch i thought you meant shlomi did
21:05 nothingmuch sorry
21:05 nothingmuch well
21:05 ivanfrey joined perl6
21:06 nothingmuch shlomi may be annoying but i don't think he's a troll, TBH
21:06 nothingmuch he does mean well
21:06 xerox Dhehe, freshmeat. It still exist?
21:06 Steve_p Yes, shlomi too
21:06 FurnaceBoy (less annoying than kdd)
21:06 ajs nothingmuch: No, it's not shlomi that's the troll. It's -Barry- (wassercrat(s)?)
21:06 nothingmuch yeah
21:06 * nothingmuch got it by now ;-)
21:07 Steve_p ajs, you're going to get me called a liar again
21:07 ajs He's the one that said, "You need to provide references. I'd accept anything authored by someone as qualified as Shlomi."
21:07 Steve_p ;)
21:07 ajs Steve_p: liar! ;)
21:07 FurnaceBoy since the original *article* was 1) pretty daft and 2) by Shlomi, he wasn't going anywhere
21:07 nothingmuch it's also very old
21:07 xerox I don't like that article.
21:07 FurnaceBoy would not accept any criticism that yes, it's as old as Stonehenge
21:07 FurnaceBoy and about as relevant to perl6
21:08 xerox Why doesn't it take in consideration Synopses in his very first paragraph?
21:08 ajs The synopsis process may not have begun yet... it was 2004. When was the first synopsis?
21:08 nothingmuch yeah, i think that's correct
21:08 nothingmuch i think late 2004
21:09 xerox Ah, it's old.
21:09 ajs VERY
21:09 FurnaceBoy yes, but refusing to listen to suggestions about revising it... that's where it got stupid
21:09 nothingmuch or maybe mid 2004
21:09 nothingmuch also, his perl 6 code in the article is very non perl6ish
21:09 FurnaceBoy KDD, not shlomi, again... though it's not clear why shlomi hasn't revisited it (busy?)
21:09 nothingmuch for 0..6 -> $t { if abs(@new[$t] - @new[$t+1]) > 3 {
21:09 nothingmuch that should be a zip
21:09 ajs FurnaceBoy: indeed. It's not that he was being stupid, just uninformed. But the observable difference between uninformed+stubborn and stupid are minimal.
21:10 pasteling "ivanfrey" at 72.136.69.198 pasted "Can't subscribe to perl6-compiler@perl.org even though I'm able to subscribe to perl6-users." (23 lines, 1K) at http://sial.org/pbot/18330
21:10 FurnaceBoy ajs, nah, uninformed was the original error. being read-only on the subject was the stupid part. ?
21:10 lumi joined perl6
21:11 ajs None the less... just an amusing event.
21:11 FurnaceBoy it'll be amusing until he drops in again. :)
21:11 FurnaceBoy audreyt spent some time trying to convince him the article was ass-about, iirc
21:11 xerox http://in.tech.yahoo.com/060708/139/65pz8.html wheeew.
21:11 lambdabot Title: "Indian-born scientist developing coated DVD's that can make hard disks obsolete"
21:12 FurnaceBoy funny, I've read that headline every year since 1990 ;-)
21:12 nothingmuch not even audreyt's patience and enlightening can  help KDD ;-)
21:12 kolibrie ivanfrey: that's not so cool
21:12 FurnaceBoy lol @ nothingmuch
21:12 ajs xerox: someone always says that... it's on Slashdot at least once a month.
21:12 FurnaceBoy uncorrectable error, nothingmuch ? or, (as I was dubbed once in #svn): learning resistant?
21:13 DaGo joined perl6
21:13 nothingmuch FurnaceBoy: ?
21:13 nothingmuch KDD is just stubborn
21:13 nothingmuch he does it for the attention
21:13 xerox ajs: crazy :)
21:13 nothingmuch it's got nothing else behind that
21:13 nothingmuch i don't think it relates to stupidity or anything like that (well, maybe indirectly)
21:14 ajs "Sydney, Jul 8 (ANI): An Indian born scientist in the US" -- Read as: let's get as many country names in the press release as possible so Google will find it ;-)
21:16 FurnaceBoy nothingmuch, right.
21:16 FurnaceBoy ajs, actually, that's US claiming adverse credit.
21:16 FurnaceBoy "he's one of ours, even if he was born ... over there"
21:16 beppu joined perl6
21:17 nothingmuch err
21:17 justatheory joined perl6
21:17 nothingmuch they didn't want *my* tax money
21:17 ajs We need a Slashdot-style, "Your suggested revolutionary media technology will not work because: [x] seek times would be insane [x] the required manufacturing technology is decades off [x] biological material doesn't store well [ ] the word "nano" does not constitute a new technology"
21:18 nothingmuch ajs++ # amusing
21:18 FurnaceBoy lol@ajs
21:18 FurnaceBoy hehe, like I read in that ACM Queue article, "saying 'it's XML' does not constitute a design"
21:19 FurnaceBoy who is the guy who posts that classic checklist on usenet...
21:19 FurnaceBoy relating to either infinite compression, or some other Frequently-posted-nonsense
21:19 svnbot6 r11461 | Sage++ | Corrected several problems with the parser as well as some problems with how translations are applied. Added a translation for foreach loops. for.t and split.t both seem to parse correctly, reflecting my most recent updates.
21:19 daxim ajs, this isn't from /.       http://google.com/search?q=craphound+spam+%22will+not+work%22
21:19 lambdabot Title: "craphound spam &quot;will not work&quot; - Google Search"
21:19 nothingmuch there's a funny story in the gzip docs about software patents
21:20 nothingmuch http://gailly.net/
21:20 FurnaceBoy daxim, that's what I was thinking of!
21:20 lambdabot Title: "Jean-loup's home page"
21:20 FurnaceBoy thanks
21:20 ajs daxim: Thanks for the context!
21:20 weinig|away is now known as weinig
21:22 daxim this xah lee guy linked from the wp perl 6 article is amusing
21:22 FurnaceBoy oh no
21:22 FurnaceBoy he's awful...
21:23 FurnaceBoy very familiar from posting off-topic rubbish to the perl ngs
21:23 FurnaceBoy isp recently slapped him on the wrist for abuse
21:25 ivanfrey Well I got my first smoke test uploaded. I think I'll svn up; make; make smoke tonight before I go to bed. I'll also close all my applications except for the smoke test.
21:27 daxim no perl Makefile.PL again?
21:27 ivanfrey At first I didn't think it was mine when I saw the time, but I just noticed it's GMT :-)
21:28 svnbot6 r11462 | fglock++ | px/Common/fglock - added Pugs/Runtime/Regex.pm
21:29 kolibrie daxim: you generally do not need to run the Makefile.PL, unless you changed settings or ENV variables
21:29 daxim aha
21:32 weinig joined perl6
21:33 ivanfrey kolibrie: thanks for clarification on the perl Makefile.PL step.
21:34 kolibrie ivanfrey: np
21:43 fglock clkao: ping
21:45 froh-doh joined perl6
21:46 ivanfrey kolibrie: Anything I can do about my subscribe problem to perl6-compiler? Do I really have to subscribe under my ISP address and not my university one?
21:49 fglock clkao: re memory requirements - I'll try interleaving parsing and emitting statements, so that it can compile arbitrary size files
21:51 macroron joined perl6
21:52 macroron joined perl6
21:57 clkao fglock: hi
21:58 fglock clkao: hey
21:59 macroron joined perl6
21:59 TimToady j
21:59 fglock clkao: reducing PCR memory footprint requires an almost rewrite, because of the bootstrapping thing - it's easier to make v6 compile in smaller chunks
22:00 clkao win 23
22:02 rindolf joined perl6
22:02 rindolf Hello Perl 6 Guys and Gals!
22:02 macroron joined perl6
22:03 pasteling "rindolf" at 88.153.15.197 pasted "Behold my new groovy-magnoovy signature" (7 lines, 307B) at http://sial.org/pbot/18333
22:03 ajs rindolf: heya
22:03 rindolf hi ajs
22:04 rindolf ajs: perhaps Chuck Norris would be a useful addition to the Pugs and Parrot teams.
22:04 macroron joined perl6
22:05 ajs rindolf: If Norris can write, give em a commit bit, and tie him to a keyboard ;)
22:05 FurnaceBoy I thought he already had commit
22:08 daxim Chuck Norris commits with a roundhouse kick into the SVN server's head
22:08 rindolf daxim: :)
22:08 * FurnaceBoy chuckles
22:09 ajs daxim: If you can get that to pass the test suite, then more power to you!
22:09 prefiks left perl6
22:09 FurnaceBoy Chuck *is* the test suite
22:09 Kattana chuck norris does not code, when he sits at a computer and it just does whatever he wants.
22:09 FurnaceBoy hehe
22:10 weinig is now known as weinig|coffee
22:10 rindolf Kattana: :-)
22:10 daxim ah, we're easy to amuse
22:10 ajs Be the test suite, Chuck... BE the test suite.
22:10 FurnaceBoy you gotta pass 'make chuck'
22:10 svnbot6 r11464 | fglock++ | v6 - added TODO Pugs/Compiler/Perl6.pm - reduce memory footprint
22:12 fglock later &
22:15 rindolf I gotta add the "Present Continuous" TimToady quotes to the wikiqutoe.
22:19 cjeris left perl6
22:21 macroron joined perl6
22:23 macroron_ joined perl6
22:47 nothingmuch ritalin report, ~6 hrs into it
22:47 nothingmuch got boring crap done
22:47 nothingmuch lots of it too
22:47 nothingmuch but I did easily get distracted
22:48 nothingmuch i suspect that tomorrow it'll have slightly more effect, based on what I read
22:50 nothingmuch i think the major change is that the boring stuff *did* get done
22:51 nothingmuch the little bit of edge i needed to plow through it was there
22:51 nothingmuch and i didn't get lost in thought ever
22:51 nothingmuch i usually just drift very easily
22:51 nothingmuch ingy: ping
22:52 nothingmuch or rather audreyt ping
22:55 nothingmuch clkao: is my small knife still in your pocket?
22:55 FurnaceBoy_ joined perl6
22:56 ingy hi nothingmuch
22:56 nothingmuch hi ingy
22:56 nothingmuch i want $YAML::{Syck::,}SortKeys to take a code ref
22:56 ingy are you on my ritalin?
22:56 nothingmuch yes, I am =)
22:56 ingy funny
22:57 nothingmuch a certain friend of ours let me try some
22:57 ingy fun with drugs
22:57 nothingmuch =D
22:57 nothingmuch the colors are lovely
22:58 ingy is the paranoia hitting hard yet?
22:58 nothingmuch yeah
22:58 nothingmuch stevan's daughter was just sitting behind me
22:58 nothingmuch but now she isn't
22:58 ingy I laced those capsules with extra goodies
22:58 nothingmuch ooh baby
22:58 ingy have a fun ride
22:59 nothingmuch ugh
22:59 nothingmuch http://cpanratings.perl.org/dist/YAML
22:59 lambdabot Title: "YAML reviews -"
22:59 nothingmuch YAML is meaningless unless you write it by hand
22:59 nothingmuch and obviously they have not yet written YAML by hand
22:59 nothingmuch vs. XML by hand
23:00 oozy joined perl6
23:00 nothingmuch and YAML::Tiny just doesn't give you the features that by-hand writing benefits from
23:01 ingy wow, thanks Adam
23:02 nothingmuch "YAML just blindly blesses things into classes, regardless of whether the class can support that, is loaded, or even exists. "
23:02 nothingmuch hah, and Storable is better
23:02 nothingmuch *sigh*
23:02 nothingmuch anyway, ingy my love
23:02 nothingmuch i want $SortKeys to take a \&cmp
23:02 ingy yes yes?
23:02 nothingmuch or even a \&sort
23:02 ingy it does
23:02 ingy iirc
23:02 nothingmuch AML::Node objects can have their own sort order
23:02 nothingmuch hmmm
23:03 nothingmuch well, i really want to be using YAML::Syck
23:03 ingy feh
23:03 nothingmuch sorry baby, i love YAML, but Syck has bigger boobs
23:03 nothingmuch it's nothing personal
23:12 daxim I've had "Red Zone" on loop in amarok for about 2 hours now
23:13 ajs daxim: define: "Red Zone", "on loop" and "amarok"...
23:13 rashakil joined perl6
23:13 ajs Ah... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amarok_%28audio%29 ?
23:14 ajs Now, it starts to make sense...
23:14 daxim amarok = kde media player
23:14 ajs right. makes sense now
23:37 clkao nothingmuch: yes, i was just about to tell you, as it dropped out when i was looking for my flask
23:40 vsoni seen audreyt
23:40 jabbot vsoni: audreyt was seen 4 hours 35 minutes 17 seconds ago
23:41 nothingmuch clkao: okay
23:42 nothingmuch try to remember to bring it next time
23:42 nothingmuch or if you are in .tw maybe you can send it with the tea
23:42 clkao heh
23:42 nothingmuch but you are in .uk, right?
23:43 clkao yes
23:43 clkao or you can come to yapc
23:43 clkao or we can meet in matterhorn
23:43 nothingmuch matterhorn?
23:43 nothingmuch i may be at YAPC::EU this year
23:43 clkao http://images.google.com/images?q=matterhorn&amp;oe=UTF-8&amp;client=firefox-a&amp;rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&amp;ie=UTF-8&amp;sa=N&amp;tab=wi
23:43 lambdabot Title: "matterhorn - Google Image Search"
23:44 nothingmuch oh that
23:44 nothingmuch yes, i'd like that
23:44 nothingmuch but I don't know when =)
23:44 nothingmuch also, tell me in advance because I don't have ice gear
23:44 clkao i dont think we need them in summer
23:44 clkao presumably august
23:45 nothingmuch 4,478  m
23:45 nothingmuch hmm
23:45 clkao ;)
23:45 clkao it's real mountain
23:45 clkao unlike the 2,100m ;)
23:45 nothingmuch yeah
23:45 nothingmuch i haven't gone that high, I think
23:45 clkao well, the highest in taiwan is 3,952m
23:45 nothingmuch i was in aspen at around 3000ish
23:45 clkao second highest is 3,882
23:46 clkao but i think i enjoy the forests more
23:46 nothingmuch well, you saw my preference =)
23:48 Bit-Man joined perl6
23:48 nothingmuch http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zirbitzkogel
23:48 nothingmuch that's my grandparent's backyard
23:51 daxim I'm a flatlander.  always been suspicious of mountains
23:52 daxim I made vacation in ljubljana, .si.  it's in a valley, and everywhere on the horizon these enormous walls
23:52 daxim with snow.  in the summer!  madness, I tell you!
23:53 nothingmuch daxim: clkao and I just hiked in the white mountains of NH
23:53 nothingmuch supposedly it's the area with the worst weather in the world
23:54 nothingmuch in the nearby Mt. Washington, somebody died in *august* 93 of a blizzard
23:54 nothingmuch we had good weather though
23:54 TreyHarris nothingmuch: i've been finding getting the focus to do that last tedious 10% done hard, too.  are you finding it easy to think things through that require careful patient thought?
23:54 nothingmuch TreyHarris: i usually drift
23:54 nothingmuch but today i haven't drifted at all
23:55 nothingmuch i usually find the last 70% hard ;-)
23:55 nothingmuch and today i'm finishing stuff
23:55 TreyHarris huh, interesting
23:55 nothingmuch so i guess that the short answer is yes
23:55 nothingmuch but i don't know yet because i haven't had really annoying work
23:56 nothingmuch i think it boils down to this:
23:56 nothingmuch normally after 5 minutes i stop typing
23:56 nothingmuch and start thinking about something else
23:57 nothingmuch and then 3 hours later i have 40 browser tabs open
23:57 nothingmuch and I'm a completely different subject
23:57 nothingmuch today i've been on topic
23:57 nothingmuch despite distractions i never "forgot" what I had to do
23:57 TreyHarris nothingmuch: heh, that sounds just like me. (the "before")
23:57 TreyHarris i've actually set myself a growl notification to popup whenever Safari starts taking more than 1GB of mem :-)
23:58 nothingmuch hah
23:58 nothingmuch can i have that snippet?
23:58 TreyHarris nothingmuch: yeah, but i have to get it when i'm on the other computer.  remind me if i forget
23:59 qu1j0t3 joined perl6
23:59 nothingmuch [email@hidden.address] if you remember
23:59 nothingmuch but i'll hunt you down
23:59 nothingmuch MUAHAHAHAHAAAAA
23:59 vsoni joined perl6

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