Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2006-07-14

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
00:01 svnbot6 r11520 | kolibrie++ | test for overriding <ws> in a grammar
00:06 trym joined perl6
00:10 kolibrie audreyt: I guessed at the correct output for t/rules/grammar.t (r11520), because it does not work here
00:11 clkao 456 tests pass today
00:11 kolibrie clkao: awesome!
00:12 clkao now i really want a diff tool for ttm. nothingmuch: you said you have one?
00:12 kolibrie audreyt: can you test it on your laptop and elsewhere?
00:12 nothingmuch clkao: yes
00:12 nothingmuch look in the TTH docs
00:12 nothingmuch all you need is to initialize it with several models
00:12 nothingmuch and it'll create Test::TAP::Model::Consolidated for you
00:12 nothingmuch but note that there are a few bugs
00:12 nothingmuch i can iron them out if you get errors in the template
00:12 clkao are you gogin to fix them?
00:12 nothingmuch because I know what they are
00:12 nothingmuch but i just haven't cared so far since nobody used that feature
00:15 * nothingmuch bounces
00:15 nothingmuch exit row seat exit row seat exit row seat!
00:17 svnbot6 r11521 | fglock++ | v6 and PCR - various fixes in the precedence table
00:20 kolibrie pmichaud: okay, your nopaste yapc_schedule.pl worked, though is not so elegant
00:21 kolibrie pmichaud: however, I had to change all the backslashed angles to the <'literal'> form, otherwise I got a PGE error
00:22 kolibrie pmichaud: *** Cannot parse PGE: <schedule>
00:25 clkao summon fglock
00:26 nothingmuch FGLOCK FGLOCK FGLOCK RISE FROM THE PITS OF DOOM AND WALK AMONGST US!
00:27 pmichaud kolibrie: if you're getting "Cannot parse PGE", do you have PARROT_PATH set?
00:27 pmichaud I don't think it's a PGE bug
00:27 * nnunley gets bleading MAD.
00:27 pmichaud it worked fine for me with the backslashed angles
00:27 * nothingmuch gives nnunley some valium
00:28 nnunley The source was not strong with me.
00:29 pmichaud also, just because the message says "PGE" in it doesn't mean that the error is in PGE :-)
00:30 clkao fglock, common, all we need is [1..4] to get 02-test-pm all pass
00:36 kolibrie pmichaud: the only change I made was converting all the \<small\> to <'<small>'>, etc.
00:36 kolibrie pmichaud: with the backslashes it gets the error
00:37 TimToady j
00:37 kolibrie pmichaud: it could be something outside of PGE, maybe.  I don't know parrot or the pugs bridge really well
00:38 clkao fglock, you broke &&
00:39 gaal nothingmuch: ping
00:39 nothingmuch gaal: you should be spleeping!
00:39 nothingmuch anywho
00:40 gaal true dat.
00:40 nothingmuch i planned on that actually
00:40 gaal but I missed my sleepy time
00:40 nothingmuch so i'm kinda busy
00:40 nothingmuch oi =(
00:40 nothingmuch well, at least no worky tomorrow
00:40 nothingmuch use orz
00:40 clkao do more hiking
00:40 gaal use HebrewWeek; use Friday;
00:41 nothingmuch short story: i'm not sure the slot calculation stuff is 100% correct in the MOP.hs file
00:41 nothingmuch so i wanna go over and be sure
00:41 nothingmuch since I waws very very picky over this to stevan
00:41 nothingmuch till he got it into moose
00:41 gaal clkao: made a small urban trip today with a friend who just bought a bike
00:41 nothingmuch because I designed it to be really for perl 6
00:41 gaal nothingmuch: excellent, please drop everything else and let's go over it now. :)
00:41 nothingmuch ug ug ug
00:42 nothingmuch i am breaking moose right now
00:42 nothingmuch slaughtering it, in fact
00:42 gaal don't do that
00:42 nothingmuch on a branch
00:42 nothingmuch it's a branch, it's OK
00:42 gaal yes, moose have no business on trees anyway
00:42 nothingmuch but i'm on ritalin withdrawl and I can't be distracted
00:42 gaal if thy venture there, I guess it's fair game.
00:42 nothingmuch or i will definitely not get it done ;-)
00:42 nothingmuch damn you audreyt !
00:42 gaal blah blah
00:43 gaal withdrawl alek
00:43 nothingmuch ;-)
00:43 gaal two days and you're a junkie
00:43 nothingmuch actually i was kidding, i'm actually on a fairly good day
00:43 weinig is now known as weinig|foood
00:43 nothingmuch despite various distractions i managed to get a bit of stuff done
00:44 nothingmuch but either way I'm out of the ritalin, at least till i go see a doctor or meet ingy/audrey ;-)
00:44 gaal so, is stevan about? I can badger him
00:44 nothingmuch no, he's watching star trek with the kids
00:45 nothingmuch also, i'm the evil guy behind that part
00:45 nothingmuch i am sorry
00:45 nothingmuch i just really promised to finish this
00:46 gaal that's okay. have fun
00:46 gaal when's your flight?
00:46 nothingmuch tomorrow morning
00:46 nothingmuch i leave at around 10ish
00:46 nothingmuch and fly out at 16:30
00:46 gaal oh.
00:46 nothingmuch (arriving an hour too early at the airport, but at least it's a direct train)
00:46 * gaal proposes a short TLV Hackathon
00:46 nothingmuch i land on saturday morning
00:46 nothingmuch next week?
00:47 nothingmuch or maybe i can even come in the middle of the week
00:47 gaal I assume it'll take you a week to recover from jet lag
00:47 nothingmuch now that i work on my own terms
00:47 gaal I don't, not quite :/
00:47 nothingmuch usually 2 days or so
00:47 nothingmuch no wait, it's the bad direction
00:47 gaal yeah
00:47 nothingmuch i'd say 3-4 days
00:48 gaal anymoose, we can talk when you get here
00:48 nothingmuch yes
00:48 nothingmuch we shall
00:48 gaal what row are you on the plane?
00:48 nothingmuch we shall!
00:48 nothingmuch oops
00:49 nothingmuch i was typing "exit row woohoo yeah!" and accidentally hit the up arrow while pressing shift
00:49 gaal what row *number*? :)
00:49 nothingmuch gaal++; # suggesting online check in
00:49 nothingmuch 32
00:49 nothingmuch what does it matter? i don't even know what kind of plane it is
00:49 gaal awrk. rows <= 20 have 'lectricity
00:49 nothingmuch i don't work well on planes anyway
00:50 nothingmuch my brain shuts off after an hour and a half
00:50 nothingmuch i never finished the battery even now that i don't have 2 of em
00:50 nothingmuch so i'm not worried about wasted time
00:50 gaal just enough time to svk ci notes into MOP.hs :)
00:50 nothingmuch i'll try
00:50 nothingmuch but i'm really stupid and burnt out on flights ;-)
00:50 gaal anyway, I'm not going to sit here and be your procrastinatory excuse! go do those things you have to do :-P
00:51 gaal and: 777, likely.
00:51 nothingmuch thank you sir
00:52 gaal for whipping you to work or for the pickle jar?
00:53 gaal (wow, that was an obscure joke)
00:53 nothingmuch yes it was
00:53 * nothingmuch chuckles in a fake manner
00:53 * gaal eyes the whip
00:53 * nothingmuch ponders getting an aeron chair
00:54 nothingmuch stevan has an old one
00:54 nothingmuch i've been sitting on it all week
00:54 nothingmuch and it's very nice
00:54 gaal go work already :)
00:54 nothingmuch i am working
00:54 gaal ha!
00:58 lumi gaal & nothingmuch: Could I stare at that stuff with you two when you hack it?
00:58 gaal lumi: please do join us!
00:59 lumi Eggcelent. :P
00:59 lumi btw is there a trick to using rules? I'm getting "Broken pipe" when I try anything at all
00:59 lumi A trick to building rulesfully
00:59 clkao nothingmuch: i think we need some aggregated ttm - for a test in rX, environment Y, backend Z
01:00 clkao so we can do easy query on X-1 same environment, or X other environment
01:00 clkao etc
01:00 gaal lumi: is your parrot embedded?
01:00 gaal i'm guessing not
01:00 justatheory joined perl6
01:00 lumi Yeah
01:00 lumi Should be anyway, I set the path, and put it in the env var
01:00 gaal strace?
01:01 lumi Eek
01:01 lumi I'd need nuffin's help, I haven't used the Mac trace facilities
01:01 gaal Eek indeed. Scary Macs.
01:02 gaal I think it's aix like. strart trace daemon, do stuff, stop trace daemon and analzse dump.
01:04 lumi Eurgh. I have a trace. What next?
01:04 gaal what happened before the signal?
01:04 gaal and: is thre an exec there?
01:04 gaal (if there is, you don't have an embedded parrot)
01:05 lumi AFAICT yes, it's spawning a parrot
01:05 lumi Which is weird. Maybe I needed to make clean at some point
01:06 gaal looks it. I'm betting you're running against a different version than the one you compiled against.
01:06 gaal also check carefully the perl Makefile.PL output to see if it gave up on embedding
01:06 nothingmuch clkao: that's what my smoke server does
01:06 nothingmuch ask zev to integrate the code
01:06 nothingmuch i showed him how easy it is =)
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01:07 nothingmuch lumi: ktrace
01:07 nothingmuch and then kdump
01:07 gaal one mouse button, two trace commands.
01:07 khisanth_ is now known as Khisanth
01:08 lumi I had a vague recollection that it was ktrace, and man did the rest :P
01:08 lumi I may have one mouse button, but I have four modifier keys
01:08 nothingmuch gaal: it's called "decoupling" ;-)
01:08 nothingmuch 5
01:08 lumi Oh um
01:08 lumi Yes, shift is a modifier key indeed
01:08 nothingmuch also, esc does mod when alt isn't meta
01:08 nothingmuch in e.g. terminal stuff
01:08 lumi A real space cadet kb
01:09 nothingmuch clkao: so how do i get your neighbors' tea?
01:11 svnbot6 r11522 | fglock++ | v6 - 'use perl5:CGI'
01:11 lumi Parrot.hsc:346:5: error: token ""0.4.5-devel"" is not valid in preprocessor expressions
01:11 lumi But everything keeps running
01:11 lumi Building (sorry)
01:13 clkao nothingmuch: uhm, send me a hiveminder task about how much you want etc
01:13 obra clkao++ # corporate shill
01:13 nothingmuch clkao@bp ?
01:13 clkao nah. it's actually useful
01:13 clkao nothingmuch: yes please
01:13 clkao otherwise i lost track
01:14 nothingmuch how does it know to complete your email?
01:14 nothingmuch isn't that bad for privacy?
01:14 nothingmuch or is it because we share a group or you've mailed me before?
01:14 gaal aren't you in the same group or something?
01:14 fglock_ joined perl6
01:15 gaal hmm though the inviter isn't necessarily trusted
01:15 gaal point.
01:15 * fglock_ walks in
01:16 lumi Do I need a particular parrot? I built latest from svn
01:16 gaal lumi: probably good choice
01:17 fglock_ clkao: && works for me
01:17 clkao fglock_: you broke 03
01:17 lumi gaal: Any idea what  that error I had is?
01:17 gaal lumi: nope, but let me look...
01:18 gaal (hsc is preprocessed into hs, for ffi stuff)
01:18 gaal ooof svk pull is so slow :(
01:19 clkao of course that's svk's fault
01:19 gaal it's pugs' fault for being so active
01:19 gaal and light's fault really for being so slow
01:20 gaal but clkao go ahead, fix that :)
01:21 gaal is there a lot of round tripping in a pull that basically gets n remote updates? or is the data to be xferred computed once and transmitted as a bulk?
01:21 gaal because roundtripping to taiwan hurts
01:22 * audreyt raises the "set up svn on feather and migrate to it" janitor task again
01:23 gaal audreyt: is that a covert means of encouraging you to erdos a lot?
01:24 audreyt yes.
01:24 fglock_ clkao: fixed
01:24 vsoni audreyt: Are there any thread safe scanner/lexers
01:24 audreyt vsoni: Lemon
01:25 gaal ah, I get it. the version string "0.4.5-devel" is not comparable with the ">" that's in the hsc
01:25 audreyt gaal: oh?
01:25 audreyt aw.
01:25 svnbot6 r11523 | fglock++ | v6 - 'say' emits a function
01:25 audreyt vsoni: flex?
01:25 gaal I suppose, lumi, that hacking your parrot working copy to discard the -devel from the announced version will "fix" that...
01:25 lumi Yeah, I guess it ought not grab the "devel" maybe
01:25 kolibrie audreyt: can you check that test I added: t/rules/grammar.t
01:26 lumi Changing whatever re's grabbing it that way might be better
01:26 gaal probably :)
01:26 lumi I'll do it when build ends maybe
01:26 audreyt kolibrie: checking
01:26 lumi Right now my poor g4's cycles are being eaten by ghc
01:26 vsoni audreyt:  is not reenterant?
01:27 * gaal has no pity for g4 cycles
01:27 audreyt vsoni: flex with -R
01:27 lumi Heh
01:27 gaal lumi: I don'
01:27 gaal t know where PARROT_VERSION is schlepped from
01:27 gaal it may be a parrot include. audreyt?
01:27 kolibrie audreyt: I had to change the backslashes to <'literal'> form, otherwise I was getting PGE errors.  Patrick said it's not PGE.  Any ideas?
01:28 audreyt vsoni: oh wait, only in C++ mode
01:28 vsoni audreyt:  yep...
01:28 lumi gaal: Yeah, iswim, problem
01:29 gaal well we can always autogen the hsc file :)
01:29 lumi I don't know cpp well enough
01:29 gaal no, cpp is too late
01:29 lumi Hmm
01:30 fglock_ left perl6
01:30 gaal we need smth -> hsc -> hs -> c -> nirvana
01:30 gaal long is the path of the righteous etc.
01:30 lumi hsc can #include "parrot_ver"
01:30 lumi Shorter
01:30 gaal heh, indeed.
01:30 gaal faster too.
01:31 lumi Pugs AST has too many internals
01:31 gaal no kidding!
01:31 audreyt vsoni: re2c
01:32 audreyt vsoni: http://re2c.org/
01:32 lambdabot Title: "re2c Home"
01:32 lumi If only you could #include `parrot -v | perl -e ...`
01:32 lumi cpp is insufficiently advanced
01:32 vsoni audreyt: thanks audreyt
01:32 gaal yes, instead of magick you get only the ick.
01:33 audreyt vsoni: also c2lib may be interesting, but unrelated
01:33 audreyt vsoni: re2c+lemon looks like a winner.
01:34 gaal lumi: src/Pugs/pugs_config.h is the place to put this probably. use something like CLEAN_PARROT_VERSION
01:34 gaal commit and see if it works? (or the other way around)
01:34 gaal I think I'll try to sleep a bit now :)
01:34 gaal good night :)  &
01:35 kolibrie gaal: isn't it morning there?
01:35 gaal soon
01:35 kolibrie sleep well
01:36 gaal thanks :)
01:36 lumi Nite gaal
01:36 gaal z&
01:37 audreyt kolibrie: <''> doesn't appear to play well
01:37 kolibrie audreyt: I had just the opposite, see if backslashes work
01:38 lumi What gens this pugs_config.h?
01:38 audreyt oh wait
01:38 audreyt token speaker { [\w|\s]+ }
01:38 audreyt you had it
01:38 audreyt token speaker { \w[\w|\s]+ }
01:38 audreyt the first worked for me
01:39 kolibrie oh yes, that is different, sorry
01:39 audreyt and that alone fixed it.
01:39 audreyt I changed it to \w+
01:39 audreyt r11524
01:39 audreyt see if it worksforyou
01:40 audreyt brb
01:40 svnbot6 r11524 | audreyt++ | * grammar.t -- make it pass here by adjusting the rules a bit.
01:40 audreyt and maybe <''> would work too
01:40 audreyt if so, change the tests back
01:40 * kolibrie pulls
01:43 * nothingmuch wants his prodigy album returned
01:46 pasteling "kolibrie" at 66.160.90.8 pasted "grammar.t output when there are backslashes instead of <''>" (7 lines, 283B) at http://sial.org/pbot/18385
01:47 pasteling "kolibrie" at 66.160.90.8 pasted "grammar.t output with <''>" (12 lines, 343B) at http://sial.org/pbot/18386
01:48 kolibrie audreyt: so the first error is kind of weird, and seems to mess up the PGE bridge? completely
01:49 kolibrie audreyt: and when PGE runs, the final test matches nothing here
01:52 ingy hi nothingmuch
01:52 nothingmuch ingy: hi
01:53 nothingmuch what's up?
01:53 svnbot6 r11525 | kolibrie++ | grammar.t - switched back to <''> form
01:53 ingy 8^B
01:53 ingy nuffin hunny
01:54 nothingmuch look, i have an ascii moose on my webpage: http://nothingmuch.woobling.org/
01:54 lambdabot Title: "Yuval Kogman's Link Farm"
01:54 nothingmuch ain't it preeeetty
01:54 ingy yes darlin
01:54 audreyt kolibrie: all grammar.t still pass for me
01:54 audreyt kolibrie: head parrot
01:54 nothingmuch yay! all tests pass
01:55 nothingmuch (all failing tests removed ;-)
01:55 audreyt kolibrie: it is possible that you are running old parrot, I think
01:55 audreyt but hm.
01:55 nothingmuch clkao: star merge sanity check:
01:55 nothingmuch can i branch a branch in a trunk/branches topology
01:55 nothingmuch and then push back up wards to the previous branch
01:55 nothingmuch and then back up from that
01:55 nothingmuch in two steps?
01:55 * clkao is so happy to be able to run: ./prove6 t/rules/grammar.t
01:56 nothingmuch or will smerge go all the way
01:56 clkao nothingmuch: yes
01:56 * nothingmuch hugs clkao
01:56 clkao nothingmuch: so, you want tea. in different batch?
01:56 nothingmuch i want the green tea we had
01:56 nothingmuch and maybe something else too
01:56 kolibrie audreyt: I have tried on three computers, the grammar fails to match on any of them
01:56 nothingmuch if you can think of a nice idea
01:57 clkao you want them sent in different batch?
01:57 audreyt kolibrie: indeed. do we have a new parrot built on feather?
01:57 audreyt kolibrie: I can try on feather
01:57 nothingmuch clkao: one package is good
01:57 clkao ok
01:57 nothingmuch it doesn't need to be partitioned
01:57 clkao i will process that
01:57 lumi So tell me of this tea, please
01:57 clkao uhm, more tea requests?
01:57 kolibrie kolibrie: I built on in ~kolibre/parrot
01:57 nothingmuch lumi: clkao lived (lives?) by a plantation in .tw
01:57 nothingmuch that makes very nice tea
01:58 clkao i think best practical should start selling hackers tea
01:58 nothingmuch that would be a nice service
01:58 kolibrie audreyt: but now I'm getting: Cannot find the parrot executable in PATH
01:58 nothingmuch will it be in webapp form?
01:58 audreyt kolibrie: add it to PATH
01:58 audreyt export PATH=$PATH:/home/path/to/parrot
01:58 clkao we need to build a jifty ecommerce site
01:58 nothingmuch lumi: anyway, i'm asking him to send me some from .tw
01:58 nothingmuch because i really liked what I had during the obrathon
01:58 nothingmuch and while hiking
01:59 clkao but you need the water from the pond
01:59 nothingmuch we may still have some ;-)
01:59 lumi And some evil eggs?
01:59 nothingmuch actually
01:59 nothingmuch did we make the tea from the cola bottle?
01:59 nothingmuch oh wait
01:59 nothingmuch the last tea was definitely from garfield pond
02:00 kolibrie audreyt: PATH worked, grammar.t still fails last test on feather
02:00 audreyt kolibrie: what's the PATH to parrot on feather?
02:00 nothingmuch clkao: i hate svk because if i have vim .swp files it won't let me branch
02:00 nothingmuch err
02:00 nothingmuch not hate
02:00 nothingmuch svk sucks becauase
02:01 nothingmuch (Sorry, i got carried away ;-)
02:01 kolibrie audreyt: ~kolibrie/parrot
02:02 audreyt kolibrie: it's all my fault
02:02 audreyt sorry for wasting you one day of time
02:03 audreyt parrot r13788 :)
02:03 audreyt r 13288
02:03 audreyt (I had noncommitted local changes.)
02:03 kolibrie audreyt: ood
02:03 kolibrie ooh, rather
02:03 kolibrie audreyt: now it works?
02:03 audreyt yup
02:04 audreyt sync up to latest parrot
02:04 audreyt and it'd work
02:04 * kolibrie ups
02:05 kolibrie does parrot need realclean?
02:05 audreyt no
02:05 audreyt just "make"
02:05 audreyt not even "make" is needed in this case
02:05 kolibrie that easy?
02:05 audreyt yeah
02:05 kolibrie audreyt: looky there!
02:06 audreyt anticlimatic, I know
02:06 kolibrie audreyt: will pmichaud be upset?  he keeps claiming it shouldn't work?
02:06 audreyt I don't know
02:06 audreyt maybe he'll fix PGE so that it stops working?
02:06 audreyt j/k :)
02:07 kolibrie that would be just my nightmare
02:08 * kolibrie envisions presenting to programming staff at $work and suddenly having it stop working
02:09 kolibrie for production I'll really rather do it under v6, though
02:10 kolibrie audreyt: you may have noticed the namespace test it grammar.t, that was to test namespaces, but now that is gone, and untested
02:11 * kolibrie isn't quite sure how to test importing a grammar anyway, so the test may not have even worked before
02:12 kolibrie audreyt: anyway, thank you much and &
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02:29 svnbot6 r11526 | fglock++ | v6 - parser: fixed circumfix:<[ ]>, postcircumfix:<[ ]>, $exp.[], .[]
02:29 svnbot6 r11526 | fglock++ | - fixed an infinite loop in parser (retry null match)
02:29 svnbot6 r11526 | fglock++ | - no semicolons inside [] yet
02:30 meppl gute nacht
02:33 fglock_ Schlaf gut
02:33 meppl ;)
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08:29 gaal nothingmuch: are those just random hikers you met on the trail?
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12:36 nothingmuch gaal: yes
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12:53 nothingmuch see you guys in ~18 hours
12:54 nothingmuch (worst case scenario that does not include a crash ;-)
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13:13 nova-alpha hi
13:17 broquaint Hola.
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15:14 kolibrie I tried running examples/rules/yapc_schedule.pl against the actual schedule (http://yapcchicago.org/the-schedule/monday) and on feather it took forever (20 minutes) so I killed it, and locally I get *** Cannot parse PGE: <schedule>\n*** Error: no ICU lib loaded
15:14 lambdabot Title: YAPC::NA 2006 » Monday
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15:34 ajs Garrrr! I missed the Boston.pm talk!
15:34 ajs <--- ijut
15:36 cjeris I wrote a few tests in t/operators/hyper.t for hyperoperators distributing into subarrays like -<<(1, [2, 3]).  Since I'm new to p6, could someone spare a moment to idiot-check them before I commit?
15:36 pasteling0 "cjeris" at 140.247.124.140 pasted "new hyperop distribution tests" (63 lines, 2.1K) at http://sial.org/pbot/18394
15:37 kolibrie cjeris: generally the rule is commit and then people can update
15:38 cjeris kolibrie: ok.  I didn't want to break something if the rule was in the other direction
15:39 kolibrie cjeris: thanks for asking, and welcome aboard
15:39 cjeris kolibrie: thanks!
15:43 * kolibrie apt-gets libicu34-dev
15:44 justatheory joined perl6
15:47 DaGo joined perl6
16:01 masak cjeris: the tests look good by me
16:02 cjeris masak: cool, thank you!
16:09 ruoso joined perl6
16:17 iblechbot joined perl6
16:17 clkao appearantly the installable devel::caller is already on cpan
16:35 amnesiac joined perl6
16:38 stevan the Connecticut hackathon is now over, nothingmuch is on his train (to catch his plane)
16:39 stevan much m??sey goodness has come out of it though :)
16:39 xerox You do lots of hackatons, meetings, and conferences, men!
16:39 kolibrie (moose)++
16:40 stevan We got some good m??se pics of the kids and the dog as well
16:40 xerox There seem to be always some conference going on here, unlike other programming language channels.
16:40 stevan xerox: I think it is really a seasonal thing
16:40 dbrunton joined perl6
16:41 xerox Since you are lambdacamels it may be of interest to you <http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/History_of_Haskell>.
16:41 stevan things calm down in the winter (nothern hemisphere winter to be exact)
16:41 stevan xerox: do you know where I can find the SPJ paper on the history of Haskell? I was told it is an excellent read
16:42 * stevan reads the first paragraph and withdraws the question
16:42 xerox Check that link.
16:42 xerox It is also from Hudak, Hughes, and Wadler. All the sages :-)
16:42 stevan I should read first,.. ask questions later :)
16:47 PerlJam stevan: be sure to read section 12.4.4
16:47 Daveman joined perl6
16:50 fglock clkao: ping
17:07 audreyt g'morning
17:07 audreyt stevan: so nothingmuch isn't going back to Boston?
17:07 stevan audreyt: no, he is flying back to .il
17:08 audreyt awww.
17:08 audreyt too bad
17:08 audreyt guess I'll meet him in OSDC.il then
17:09 stevan yeha we wanted to try and come back up, but $work is too crazy for me right now
17:12 stevan audreyt: how much longer will you be in Boston?
17:12 audreyt stevan: 8 days
17:12 stevan then to OSCON?
17:12 audreyt yup
17:13 stevan nothingmuch and I are going to work up 3 talks for YAPC & OSCON next year
17:13 stevan and maybe try to submit a paper to OOPSLA on Moose/MOP/Perl6MM
17:13 audreyt I'll be in OOPSLA
17:13 stevan cool
17:14 audreyt or rather, DLS
17:14 stevan DLS?
17:14 audreyt http://www.oopsla.org/2006/submission/t​racks/dynamic_languages_symposium.html
17:14 lambdabot Title: OOPSLA 2006
17:14 stevan ah yes
17:14 stevan I think I read about this on LtU
17:14 audreyt <- this year's invited speaker
17:15 stevan very nice :)
17:15 audreyt maybe I get to present your paper :D
17:15 stevan we are thinking next year
17:15 audreyt ah ok.
17:15 stevan by then Moose/MOP stuff should be worked out
17:15 audreyt nodnod
17:15 audreyt that'd b wonderful
17:15 audreyt s/b/be/
17:16 stevan we actually discussed a nice refactor to the method protocol which will allow us to layer a really nice query interface over the MOP
17:16 stevan which will make MOP actions really really simple
17:16 audreyt query as in structural query?
17:16 audreyt or as in relational query?
17:16 stevan uhm,... neither, and kind of both :)
17:16 stevan it is still a rough idea
17:17 audreyt mooseish query then
17:17 stevan yes :)
17:17 stevan we basically realized that several features would be greatly simplified by a more unified and consitent iteration interface
17:17 * audreyt decides to fix Win32 build breakage first
17:17 audreyt ah. yup
17:17 stevan and what good are iterators if you cant filter then nicely :)
17:18 stevan I will let the ADD do the rest of the connecting of the dots :)
17:18 stevan it also simplifies the Moose::Visualized module which I have been pondering for a while now
17:20 SamB joined perl6
17:21 audreyt yup
17:22 audreyt a vision for moose
17:22 stevan m??se g??gles
17:30 kudra joined perl6
17:30 kudra hi
17:31 kolibrie hi kudra
17:41 audreyt kudra: hi
17:41 kudra that was a double hello :)
17:43 ajs Question about enum: Would "enum x <<a b c>>; sub foo(x :$n,$m); foo :n<a>, 2;" pass :n<'a'> or :n<x::a> to foo?
17:43 ajs In other words, does the a get auto-quoted when the named parameter is expecting an enum?
17:46 PerlJam ajs: X<a> is equivalent to X{'a'} always
17:46 PerlJam (or so I believe :)
17:46 PerlJam for the latter, you'd have to do :n(a)  (assuming that really works)
17:48 audreyt yup and yup
17:49 ajs Well, gah! That's just unfun....
17:50 ajs Thanks for the info, though.
17:50 ajs So, the example for the round function will be: my $n_rounded = round :dir(RoundEven), $n;
17:55 PerlJam Why is it called :dir?
17:56 PerlJam round :semantics(RoundEven), $n
17:56 PerlJam round :semantics(IEEE), $n
17:56 PerlJam (or something)
17:57 PerlJam dir implies "direction" to me and that doesn't make sense.
17:57 pmichaud_ actually, I first read it as "directory"
17:57 pmichaud_ "What do directories have to do with rounding?"  <-- my first reaction
17:57 PerlJam round :semantics(Floor), $n; round :semantics(Ceiling), $n;   #  :-)
17:57 ajs PerlJam: ... because it's a direction. There are seven directions associated with rounding numbers: up, down, positive infinity, negative infinity, even, odd, random.
17:58 ajs Don't confuse this with floor/ceiling. That's not a parameter to round!
17:58 pmichaud_ almost makes me wish for  :up, :down, :even, :odd, ...
17:58 ajs round only does the closest whole number. The only question is what you do with .5
17:59 PerlJam pmichaud_: but then what happens when they ask for  round :up :down, $n  ?
17:59 ajs I really dislike adding :foo and :bar when the they are mutually exclusive
17:59 pmichaud_ but it *reads* better
17:59 ajs round :up, :down, $n does not read better
17:59 PerlJam ajs: who actually would use "random" ?
18:00 PerlJam maybe for testing.
18:00 PerlJam but not "for real"
18:00 ajs PerlJam: random rounding directionality is used very often in statistical circles, though even is more popular in those circles
18:00 pmichaud_ so, we're going to increase the huffmanization for the correct case to avoid the potential for an incorrect one?
18:00 ajs It's VERY common. In fact, I know of at least two production applications that affect your wallet on a regular basis.
18:00 kudra bye
18:00 ajs later kudra
18:01 PerlJam can't we always add a constraint on the sub so that (at compile time), there's an error if mutual exclusivity is violated?
18:01 pmichaud_ we don't always know at compile time
18:02 ajs Yep, you can always call round([,] $capture)
18:02 ajs A run-time check could catch that
18:02 pmichaud_ also, why only round to integers?
18:03 ajs pmichaud_: We round to complex as well
18:03 ajs for complex input
18:03 ajs er, actually, Complex
18:03 PerlJam ajs: But I want to round to the nearest tenth
18:03 pmichaud_ what about rounding to the nearest tenth, nearest half, etc.?
18:03 fglock kolibrie: re mail - that looks like spam
18:04 pmichaud_ nearest three, nearest ten, nearest 100, etc.
18:04 kolibrie fglock: thought so, just wanted to make sure your computer wasn't infected or anything
18:04 pmichaud_ fwiw, php uses "precision" for round:    $n = round :precision(0.5) $x
18:04 ajs pmichaud_: so, you want: our Int multi Math::Basic::round ( Num $x, :$up, :$down, :$infinity, :$neginfinity, :$even, :$odd, :$random, :$precision, :$base)?
18:06 pmichaud_ maybe just precision:   $n = round :precision(RoundEven)
18:06 PerlJam eh?
18:06 ajs That's not a precision.
18:06 ajs That's a direction for tie-breaking
18:06 pmichaud_ ohhhhh
18:06 pmichaud_ I get it
18:07 PerlJam ajs: round :tie(RoundUp) :precision(0.001)
18:07 pmichaud_ personally, I like    $n = round $x :up     to   $n = round $x :dir(RoundUp)
18:07 pmichaud_ but I don't have a strong opinion on it
18:07 ajs Why is :tie preferable to :dir? More to the point, what are we solving for, here?
18:07 PerlJam ajs: dir still doesn't make any sense.
18:07 PerlJam ( to me)
18:08 PerlJam why not "direction"?
18:08 ajs Simply length. I try not to have named parameters which exceed the length of the function name.
18:08 chris2 joined perl6
18:09 * pmichaud_ notes, fwiw, that unix command-line options have no difficulty with mutual-exclusivity
18:09 PerlJam ajs: do you do any C programming under unix?  Have you ever used creat(2)?
18:09 ajs Quite a bit
18:09 * pmichaud_ bows out for a while
18:10 PerlJam I think dir is the same kind of mistake as creat
18:12 ajs creat is a mistake because it sacrifices readability for one character. "dir" is a commonly used abbreviation (esp. in programming) for "direction", and more than halves the length of the token. I don't think this is a reasonable comparison.
18:12 ajs If there were any possible confusion with "directory", then I'd say it was a bad choice
18:13 * kolibrie prefers verbosity over ambiguity, unless it is something used so often that it is no longer ambiguous
18:13 ajs But the problem is that "tie" isn't what we're doing here. We're selecting a direction in the case of a tie... I'm not sure that works adverbially...
18:14 ajs kolibrie: And you don't think rounding direction is used very often? Read: http://www.pldesignline.com/howto/sh​owArticle.jhtml;?articleID=175801189
18:14 GeJ joined perl6
18:15 kolibrie ajs: I think it should have a nice default so I don't often have to specify my direction
18:16 PerlJam ajs: you'll note in that article that they mention "round-floor" and "round-ceiling"  :-)
18:16 PerlJam kolibrie: what's a nice default?
18:16 ajs Well, it does have a nice default, and I don't expect most people to specify it, but those who need it, use it A LOT.
18:17 ajs PerlJam: That's not the section I was refering to. Perl does and always has made a distinction betwen "rounding" and "flooring" as different operations.
18:17 ajs But if the concern is that signatures are too short, and should allow for all possible combinatorics of uses of the abstract sematic represented by the function, then S29 is going to beat out War and Peace
18:18 ajs (and I'll not be doing all of it)
18:18 PerlJam Sure, but are the names given there representative of the names used in common parlance?  If so, shouldn't we adopt them?
18:18 kolibrie PerlJam: I don't round enough to know, that's why I'll use the default
18:18 ajs PerlJam: We have adopted them. That's why there's a floor and ceiling function. These are well used names.
18:19 PerlJam So this is a case where you think TIMTOWTDI shouldn't apply?
18:19 ajs But "round" presents an ambiguity, and to resolve that ambiguity, you have to pick a direction to go in case of tie.
18:20 kolibrie we could use unicode arrows :)
18:20 ajs WHAT ... ARE ... WE ... SOLVING ... FOR?!
18:20 * bpphillips notices the bikeshed, starts thinking about what color it REALLY should be ;-)
18:21 kolibrie I was just saying that for people who round very infrequently, it would be nice to have adverbs that are verbose enough for me to understand them
18:21 PerlJam ajs: 1) dir is a poor name (at least IMHO).  We need a better one.  And 2) I'm lobbying for RoundFloor/RoundCeiling because I think that there's some largish subset of the population who think of floor and ceiling as rounding operations and would naturally look for them there.
18:22 PerlJam (Certianly not in POSIX without some help)
18:23 kolibrie the regex adverbs have one-letter and verbose forms
18:23 theorbtwo PerlJam: That's what documentation is for, not making the name longer.
18:23 kolibrie could have :d and :direction
18:23 cjeris $n = round $x :toward(Even) ?
18:24 bpphillips cjeris++
18:24 theorbtwo I don't think we need to put every concieveable variation of rounding in the core.
18:24 PerlJam theorbtwo: I can accept that. I think.
18:24 theorbtwo ceil(), floor(), and a round() with unspecified tiebraking are plenty.
18:24 ajs Decide amongst yourselves. I'll move on to something else for now. I don't have time to have a 20 minute conversation about every function. There are just too many. If you want a run-on signature, though, you'll have to tackle the formattign question. Right now S29 dodges that by having, in general, short signatures.
18:25 PerlJam kolibrie++, and I can accept that too.  (In fact, earlier when we were talking about precision, I was going to suggest :p rather than :precision, but why not both? )
18:25 PerlJam ajs: sorry to distract.  keep up the good work!  ajs++  :-)
18:26 kolibrie yes, ajs++
18:31 ajs Thanks guys. Sorry to be cranky, it's just that this work is SO slow... I have to slog through the synopses multiple times for every single function, as they always end up bringing up their own odd questions.
18:31 elmex elmex++
18:31 perlbot What kind of idiot karmas himself?  Your kind of idiot!
18:32 ajs And, then there's the 3 years of mailing list archives...
18:32 ajs perlbot--
18:32 PerlJam ajs: sounds like you need to delegate.  Now that S29 is broken up into pieces, recruit volunteers for each piece
18:32 PerlJam ajs: though you'll have to be responsible for quality control
18:33 PerlJam (since you're the function pumpking :-)
18:33 * tewk hears PerlJam volunteering :)
18:34 ajs Well, that will happen. I need the framework first. Ultimately at least half of the API documentation needs to wait until AFTER the first implementation of the modules that it documents. It will be iterative, and I hope the poeple who implement will be willing to document what they do
18:34 PerlJam tewk: indeed. If I remembered how S29 was divided, I'd grab a piece that looked interesting enough to keep me working on it.
18:35 PerlJam ajs: oh!  Then what needs implementing still?  Maybe make RT tickets for each function/module so that people can be encouraged to get to work :)
18:35 ajs PerlJam: Every module that S29 documents (e.g. Math::Basic, Scalar, OS, etc) will have a corresponding API doc.
18:35 ajs And a corresponding module that people can actually "use"
18:36 * PerlJam needs to get a parrot commit bit or something ... I keep getting more and more interested in it as perl6 gets nearer
18:36 ajs If you want to start writing modules, based on Functions.pod, feel free. Those who write code, typically get commit bits around the first time they say, "I have code, who wants to commit it?" ;-)
18:39 tewk PerlJam: do you have a pugs commit bit?
18:40 PerlJam tewk: I do.
18:40 PerlJam (who doesn't?  ;-)
18:40 stevan matz
18:40 ajs Oh, I was misunderstanding your statement...
18:40 stevan guido never picked his up
18:40 tewk My thoughts exactly after asking, stupid question.
18:40 ajs stevan: heh
18:40 tewk but I'm sure it's waiting for him.
18:41 stevan tewk: yes :)
18:41 stevan maybe this OSCON audrey can get them to sign up
18:41 tewk matz seems like the type who would definitely sign up.
18:41 tewk is matz going to be at OSCON?
18:51 evalbot_11535 joined perl6
18:51 audreyt Win32 build repaired.
18:52 kolibrie audreyt++
18:52 fglock svnbot is down
18:52 audreyt bringing it up now
18:53 cjeris audreyt++
18:53 cjeris ntfs-- : svn: Can't open file 'docs\Perl6\API\.svn\tmp\text-b​ase\Math::Basic.pod.svn-base': The parameter is incorrect.
19:04 ajs Doh
19:04 ajs What should I call that
19:04 ajs Math-Basic.pod? Or do we tell NTFS to go touch itself? ;)
19:05 audreyt Math/Basic.pod
19:05 audreyt I think
19:05 audreyt makes CPAN's life easier
19:05 ajs Really? Ok. I thought subdirs would be annoying.
19:05 ajs Will do
19:05 xerox How does one see the list of people's karma? :D
19:06 fglock audreyt: svnbot still doesn't work
19:06 svnbot6 joined perl6
19:06 audreyt fglock: need a ?join
19:06 fglock thanks!
19:06 svnbot6 r11540 | ajs++ | Moved Math::Basic so that systems that cannot do :: in filenames will cope
19:07 ajs done
19:10 ajs Ok, that's it for me until Sunday or Monday. Have a great weekend, y'all
19:10 kolibrie ajs: happy weekend
19:16 audreyt have fun :)
19:25 svnbot6 r11541 | fglock++ | v6 - TODO update
19:31 svnbot6 r11542 | audreyt++ | * take away another "ar" call on Win32 to reduce confusing error msg.
19:36 audreyt bbiab...
20:01 kolibrie audreyt: I got yapc_schedule.pl to work on the real schedule (http://yapcchicago.org/the-schedule/monday) if I removed the '—' (\x{2014}) characters, which were not matching .
20:01 lambdabot Title: YAPC::NA 2006 » Monday
20:01 nothingmuch SO!
20:01 nothingmuch guess what
20:02 nothingmuch did my flight checkin go smoothly?
20:02 kolibrie hey nothingmuch
20:02 nothingmuch of course not!
20:02 * nothingmuch wants to sleep
20:02 nothingmuch so much
20:02 kolibrie are you stranded?
20:02 gaal nothingmuch: what happened?
20:03 nothingmuch my train was like 20 mins late
20:03 nothingmuch but that was OK
20:03 nothingmuch it was still enough time to actuallly make it
20:04 nothingmuch only the eticket machines kept crashing with my info
20:04 gaal eek
20:04 nothingmuch i finally found someone who listened
20:04 nothingmuch so she tried it
20:04 nothingmuch and it turns ouit checkins to israel are restricted
20:04 nothingmuch and i need to go to some other place
20:04 nothingmuch from that place i got sent to yet another place
20:04 nothingmuch where I discovered that somehow my booking was canceled
20:04 gaal !!!
20:04 nothingmuch (this is about 30 minutes before departure)
20:04 gaal oh
20:05 nothingmuch (i was running around the airport for over an hour by then)
20:05 gaal hmmmm what now then?
20:05 nothingmuch so they put me on a different flight
20:05 nothingmuch departing at 22:00
20:05 kolibrie ugh
20:05 nothingmuch so that was fixed, kinda
20:05 gaal what time is it now? 16:05
20:05 kolibrie yes
20:05 gaal where are you?
20:05 nothingmuch and to compensate me, i discovered that I "was selected by Continental airlines"
20:05 gaal you were selected for what?
20:06 nothingmuch what this means is that some guy with gloves gave me a full body massage
20:06 gaal heh
20:06 nothingmuch if i'm really lucky they will tell me that i'm on standby
20:06 gaal an upgrade to business on a transatlantic flight might be a nicer selection...
20:06 kolibrie nothingmuch: you at JFK?
20:07 gaal are you waiting in the airport?
20:07 nothingmuch kolibrie: EWR
20:07 nothingmuch i'm now on the gate next to mine
20:07 nothingmuch (Israel's gate is blocked off)
20:07 gaal I wonder if you can check yout luggage somewhere and hop off to manhattan
20:07 gaal newark is alittle clumsy to reach manhattan by with cheap routes
20:08 nothingmuch gaal: i'm already checked in
20:08 nothingmuch i don't want any more mess
20:08 gaal you need to take the bus to Newark the city, then a PATH to exchange place, switch to the other line and bam, you're in 33rd St
20:08 gaal under five bucks
20:08 gaal but that's a few switches and potential confusion.
20:09 * obra will be in nyc tomorrow
20:09 kolibrie and how many hours?
20:09 gaal kolibrie: not very long, under 1.5 hr
20:09 nothingmuch gaal: that's ~1.5 hrs in and ~1.5 hrs out
20:09 gaal yes
20:09 nothingmuch while I can have fun it's going to be risky
20:09 nothingmuch this doesn't include recheckin time
20:09 nothingmuch and leaving the gate
20:09 gaal or take a taxi, about fifty bucks evrey way :(
20:09 nothingmuch naaaaaaaah
20:09 gaal well you do have six hours
20:10 obra nothingmuch: you've got internet, right?
20:10 gaal oh, less than that really
20:10 kolibrie or helicopter, they have those too
20:10 gaal well, look on the bright side :)
20:10 gaal we get to moose :)
20:10 nothingmuch obra: it appears so
20:10 nothingmuch gaal: yes
20:11 gaal where are you pulling internet from btw? I was wondering that at the gate
20:11 gaal before my flight that is
20:11 * gaal 's crummy ol' NIC doesn't have scan
20:11 nothingmuch concourse
20:12 gaal let me guess you're at 99?
20:12 gaal 98 maybe
20:12 stevan nothingmuch!!
20:12 gaal stevan: moose
20:12 nothingmuch hoi esteban
20:12 nothingmuch gaal: 96 right now
20:12 nothingmuch or 94
20:12 gaal so, let's antler a bit!
20:12 nothingmuch but it's a few meters from 98
20:13 nothingmuch gaal: give me 15 mins to finish some Class::MOP silliness
20:13 gaal my first question is about the method tables
20:13 gaal sure
20:13 stevan gaal: moose
20:14 gaal hey, maybe we can gobby this?
20:14 nothingmuch they are not tables ;-)
20:14 * gaal doesn't have SEEE
20:14 nothingmuch they're iterators
20:14 gaal huh? over what?
20:14 * gaal looks at Class::MOP for reference
20:16 kolibrie audreyt: do you know where \x{2014} not matching . in a grammar is caused, and how easy to fix?
20:16 nothingmuch gaal: i was kidding
20:16 nothingmuch i will explain soon
20:17 gaal k
20:18 fglock which perl5 module implements 'reduce'?
20:18 gaal List::Util probably
20:19 gaal brb
20:22 gaal nothingmuch: foo says hi
20:23 gaal well, in Class::MOP it's simply the Perl 5 symbol table. so I'm guessing a Map Ident Code simply?
20:24 nothingmuch gaal: pet foo for me
20:24 nothingmuch gaal++; # helping me out last year when my flights also went screwey
20:24 gaal will do
20:24 nothingmuch gaal: anonymous classes might do whatever
20:24 nothingmuch it should ofcourse, be opaque
20:24 nothingmuch but Map Ident Code is good enough
20:24 nothingmuch if Code has the meta data
20:24 gaal nothingmuch: oh! need me to call anyone or are you good on that front?
20:25 nothingmuch (i don't know Code, i thought VCode...)
20:25 nothingmuch what time is it in israel?
20:25 gaal nothingmuch: the new Code data is pretty rich
20:25 nothingmuch i mailed my 'rents
20:25 gaal 23:25
20:25 nothingmuch but crap
20:25 nothingmuch they won't check email
20:25 nothingmuch please wake them up
20:25 nothingmuch 08-651-2264
20:25 gaal I'd be happy to give them a call
20:25 nothingmuch <3 gaal
20:25 gaal what's your TLV ETA?
20:26 nothingmuch checking
20:27 gaal + flight no.
20:27 nothingmuch 90
20:27 gaal k, give me 5 min
20:28 gaal (phone on emergency charge...)
20:28 nothingmuch gaal: flight 90, arrives at 4:15 pm
20:28 nothingmuch oh shit
20:28 svnbot6 r11543 | kolibrie++ | yapc_schedule.pl - updated to work with http://yapcchicago.org/the-schedule/monday
20:28 svnbot6 r11543 | kolibrie++ | * still fails to read past the \x{2014} characters,
20:28 svnbot6 r11543 | kolibrie++ |   so delete those from the html until that gets fixed
20:29 lambdabot Title: YAPC::NA 2006 » Monday
20:29 nothingmuch they have a scheduling issue
20:29 gaal in the meanwhile, if you're bored, take a look at src/Pugs/AST/CapInternals.hs
20:29 nothingmuch *GUGHHHHGGGGGGG*
20:29 nothingmuch and no fucking trains
20:29 * nothingmuch dies
20:29 gaal nothingmuch: crash here
20:29 gaal you'll have to pay 120nis for a cab to my place (sorry no car to pick you up with)
20:29 gaal but you're welcome to stay here till you're unstranded
20:30 nothingmuch <3 once more
20:30 nothingmuch oh wait, when it's mozash?
20:30 fglock gaal: reduce works :)
20:31 gaal fglock: yay :)
20:31 svnbot6 r11544 | fglock++ | v6 -  say [*] 1..5
20:31 gaal whee! fglock++
20:31 gaal fglock: remember to also do [\*]
20:32 gaal nothingmuch: tomorrow no trains Lod -> Beer Sheba due to maintenance.
20:33 fglock gaal: submit a patch to List::Util? :)
20:33 nothingmuch gaal: *sigh*
20:34 nothingmuch gaal: tell them that you can host me if they can't pick me up
20:34 nothingmuch they have some sort of engagement related to my sister
20:34 gaal fglock: actually part of the point of scans (productions) is that they're lazy, so in perl 5 they're less efficient
20:34 nothingmuch but i don't know what it is
20:34 nothingmuch luckily i have cloths and stuff
20:35 pmichaud kolibrie: (\x{2014} not matching)  that's a parrot implementation issue -- it doesn't deal well with unicode characters if ICU isn't loaded
20:35 gaal nothingmuch: the train site is kinda confusing, could be only the Lod->bs service is closed but there's a train from tlv leaving 22:11
20:35 kolibrie pmichaud: ICU is loaded (before I loaded it I was getting ICU not found errors)
20:36 clkao fglock: pong
20:36 pmichaud then it ought to match
20:36 kolibrie hmm.  Any particular version of ICU I need?
20:36 nothingmuch gaal: =/
20:36 nothingmuch gaal: i have you as fallback
20:36 nothingmuch so i will see what I can do
20:36 pmichaud not that I'm aware of -- anything that causes parrot to build cleanly ought to be okay
20:37 kolibrie pmichaud: ok
20:37 fglock clkao: I fixed some syntax problems
20:37 clkao cool
20:37 gaal nothingmuch: your folks will pick you up tomorrow :)
20:38 gaal just spoke with them
20:38 fglock clkao: t/data_types/hash.t parses now (emits with errors)
20:38 pmichaud kolibrie: you might run   prove t/compilers/pge/p6regex/metachars.t   in your parrot instance, it has some unicode checks in it
20:38 gaal oh, even if there weren't a train you could have taken the bus, it's not too bad.
20:38 gaal but.. they know the flight number etc.
20:38 pmichaud I'm not sure how good the bridge is when dealing w/unicode.  I suspect it's okay,  but...
20:39 svnbot6 r11545 | fglock++ | v6 - updated ChangeLog
20:39 nothingmuch gaal: thanks
20:39 gaal nothingmuch: sure thing
20:39 nothingmuch <3 gaal
20:39 nothingmuch gaal++
20:39 kolibrie pmichaud: t/compilers/pge/p6regex/metachars....ok
20:40 clkao fglock: WHOOT
20:40 kolibrie pmichaud: could be a bridge thing, maybe.
20:40 clkao fglock: with hash working we can start rewrite the emitter in perl6
20:40 gaal oh, I didn't know List::Util was XS
20:42 fglock clkao: it's time to split the emitter in submodules - it is starting to get big
20:42 nothingmuch clkao: you'll mail me again, right? becasue you marked the task as finished
20:42 rodi joined perl6
20:42 clkao nothingmuch: yes, i created a task for my friend to report the postage
20:43 clkao nothingmuch: once i got it i will and it to your total balance and request payment by paypal ;)
20:44 nothingmuch =)
20:46 nothingmuch gaal: join moose?
20:47 nothingmuch audreyt: shit, i forgot to tell you that stevan couldn't visit boston
20:47 clkao moose
20:47 fglock clkao: the whole compiler can be written in v6 :)
20:48 clkao yes, very soon ;)
20:48 gaal nothingmuch: well
20:48 gaal ?
20:52 cmarcelo joined perl6
20:53 nothingmuch 6
20:53 svnbot6 r11546 | fglock++ | v6-alpha-0.009 in cpan
20:55 clkao fglock: are you aiming to roll releases every two days?
21:03 knewt joined perl6
21:03 kolibrie nothingmuch: stevan mentioned it here this morning
21:05 clkao fglock: need [1..3]
21:07 fglock clkao: say [1..3].perl works here
21:07 clkao oh ok
21:08 clkao 02-test-pm/1basic still fails to parse
21:11 nothingmuch kolibrie: the not being able to go to boston? i saw audreyt asking about it in my away log but not the remainder of the conversation
21:11 kolibrie nothingmuch: yes
21:11 kolibrie I don't know how it concluded, either, but I think she was aware
21:12 nothingmuch okay =)
21:12 fglock clkao: re 1-basic.t - subs must be moved from 'statement' to 'term'
21:12 lumi nothingmuch: Maybe I can pick you up?
21:13 nothingmuch lumi: no, they are picking me up
21:13 lumi Oh, k
21:13 nothingmuch but thanks!
21:13 clkao fglock: i though it is already. otherwise my $foo = sub {} wouldn't work?
21:13 clkao anyway, off for a bit
21:17 fglock clkao: 'my $foo = sub {}' works because the emitter is smart about it
21:17 svnbot6 r11547 | gaal++ | * Pugs.MOP: both Module and Class only Maybe have Package and Module, respectively
21:18 fglock clkao: "Release Early, Release Often"
21:20 gaal openfoundry is kinda slow tonight :(
21:22 cjeris I'm trying to fix Pugs.Prim.List to distribute hyperops over nested arrays, but I think what I just coded is wrong.
21:22 pasteling0 "cjeris" at 140.247.124.140 pasted "trying to add hyperop distribution" (22 lines, 533B) at http://sial.org/pbot/18402
21:22 svnbot6 r11548 | fglock++ | v6 - removed empty file 'moose-1.pl'
21:22 cjeris It needs to return a reference in the second slot, so it looks like (1, [2, 3]), right?
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22:16 svnbot6 r11549 | cmarcelo++ | * ByteString support for Map and MapSL.
22:16 svnbot6 r11549 | cmarcelo++ | * Naive HsJudy-based entry for K-Nucleotide Shootout Entry.
22:16 svnbot6 r11549 | cmarcelo++ | Three times better than GHC #1 entry. Couldn't check times for
22:16 svnbot6 r11549 | cmarcelo++ | GHC #2 and GHC #3. But worst than Ketil's entry in Hawiki
22:16 svnbot6 r11549 | cmarcelo++ | (Haskell old wiki).
22:17 * nothingmuch pulls an audreyt
22:19 Jedai joined perl6
22:25 rindolf joined perl6
22:25 rindolf Hi all.
22:26 xerox cmarcelo: How's your SoC doing? :D
22:32 audreyt apparently pretty well :)
22:33 audreyt <3 the ByteString support
22:34 rindolf Is the Google SoC open for people who already graduated from university?
22:35 obra hey audreyt
22:35 rindolf Hi auder
22:35 rindolf Hi audreyt
22:35 audreyt obra: hey
22:35 rindolf audreyt: have you given a talk in Boston?
22:35 audreyt yes.
22:35 rindolf Or Cambridge, MA?
22:36 rindolf audreyt: yes, there's a discussion about it in the Boston.pm mailing list.
22:36 audreyt I don't know where I've gave the talk
22:36 rindolf Whose archive is only for subscribers... <sigh />.
22:36 rindolf audreyt: Oh.
22:36 audreyt MIT campus, I think.
22:36 rindolf audreyt: you didn't drive?
22:36 audreyt not sure
22:36 audreyt no, obra drove me there
22:36 rindolf audreyt: OK.
22:36 * audreyt pays very little attention to Reality in general
22:37 obra MIT Campus. E51
22:39 rindolf obra: does MIT has other buildings spread in Cambridge?
22:39 rindolf obra: also, does Harvard teach Engineering?
22:40 rindolf A distant relative (from marriage) is from Brookline, MA originally. He started studying in Harvard. First Law, then Philosophy. He quit with one semester left.
22:40 rindolf Or so I heard.
22:41 rindolf He also sold his startup to an Internet sports news company.
22:43 rindolf http://www.couchsurfing.com/founders-dan.html
22:43 lambdabot Title: CouchSurfing - Daniel M. Hoffer
22:44 rindolf Seems like he moved to Silicon Valley.
22:46 rindolf No, wait - http://www.couchsurfing.com/profile.html?id=15AU he's still in Boston.
22:46 lambdabot Title: CouchSurfing - HOFFER
22:46 fglock left perl6
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23:08 nothingmuch couchsurfing is back?
23:12 wolverian yes
23:12 wolverian couchsurfing++ # great for summer festivals
23:43 vsoni seen audreyt
23:43 jabbot vsoni: audreyt was seen 1 hours 7 minutes 15 seconds ago
23:46 audreyt vsoni: yes?
23:46 vsoni audreyt do we use .pcc_sub directive in PIR
23:46 vsoni aureyt: for subs
23:46 diotalevi joined perl6
23:46 audreyt no.
23:46 audreyt it's all .sub now
23:47 audreyt .pcc_sub + label
23:47 audreyt is pasm only iirc.
23:47 vsoni so .pcc_sub is deprecated
23:47 audreyt well, only in PIR
23:47 vsoni ok.
23:48 vsoni thanks audreyt
23:48 clkao zz
23:50 audreyt vsoni: np :)

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