Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2006-08-01

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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00:02 TreyHarris :-)
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00:58 ludan see you tomorrow guys
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03:13 svnbot6 r11840 | fglock++ | pX/Pugs-Compiler-Rule - more fixes in capture; keep 'state' in the Match object
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06:23 svnbot6 r11841 | dolmans++ | dolmans now signed in.
06:35 svnbot6 r11842 | dolmans++ | subroutines/param_sinature.t
06:35 dolmans hi audreyt, could you kind to review my first commit, which i refer it as a babystep.
06:38 audreyt well
06:38 audreyt svn mv param_sinature param_signature
06:38 audreyt (typo)
06:38 audreyt ditto in the test body
06:38 audreyt but otherwise looks sane
06:38 audreyt dolmans++
06:39 dolmans oops
06:44 Captain_Fourier hey i have more free time
06:44 Captain_Fourier if i dont know haskell, how can i help?
06:45 audreyt there's perl5/Pugs-Compiler-Perl6/HACKING
06:45 audreyt also http://pugs.blogs.com/pugs/2​006/07/pugs_janitor_ta.html
06:46 audreyt also, proofreading synopses is very important too
06:46 Captain_Fourier ok
06:47 audreyt i.e. take http://svn.perl.org/perl6/doc/trunk/design/syn/ and mark the places where the English is misleading or wrong
06:47 lambdabot Title: Revision 10532: /doc/trunk/design/syn
06:47 audreyt and submit patches to perl6-language@perl.org
06:47 Captain_Fourier will do
06:47 audreyt yay
06:47 * audreyt is still reeling from jetlag
06:48 Captain_Fourier there were a flurry of perl cons last month
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07:02 svnbot6 r11844 | dolmans++ | deleted the typo version param_sinature.t
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07:09 nothingmuch Juerd: please add unicode to http://tnx.nl/php, it's an important argument nowadays
07:09 lambdabot Title: PHP in contrast to Perl
07:11 Bleadof Indeed
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07:40 pmurias a couple of my friends wan't to use a dual language php/c++ solution for a webapp
07:40 pmurias s/wan't/wanted/
07:42 nothingmuch sounds like the best of both worlds ;-)
07:45 pmurias i heard them planing a binary protocol at breakfast (with an XML header)
07:45 pmurias on the next day (to use with the webap)
07:47 pmurias s/webap/webapp/
07:50 pmurias talked about perl6 with a pythonist who reveled himself by sugesting diango or another python framework
07:52 audreyt django is neat.
07:52 audreyt one of the inspirations of Jifty :)
07:53 pmurias it suposably also does autogeneration of database schemas
07:53 audreyt it is quite jiftylike.
07:53 audreyt I enjoy jifty's "action" abstraction for no-effort ajaxy behaviour
07:54 audreyt but otherwise the two frameworks are comparable in surface easy-to-codeness
07:55 pmurias audreyt: during your talk you mentioned a lot of neat RPS thingys like Jifty::Query
07:55 audreyt right. now that the 1.0 stuff are ported to jifty, I'm working on 2.0 stuff next week onward
07:56 audreyt (Jifty::Plugin::REST is now in jifty trunk and supports both GET and POST interfaces)
07:56 audreyt (and XML::All 0.02 is on CPAN)
07:56 pmurias and Jifty::Query?
07:56 audreyt it's in the "2.0" aka "exprimental" aka "we are still playing with the syntax" stage.
07:56 audreyt ditto jifty::View.
07:57 audreyt (though Jifty::Web::Session::ClientSide has since matured and is now part of jifty core)
07:57 pmurias thanks
07:58 audreyt np :) we'll get there, but unlike pugs, my jiftywork is prioritized by $client demand
07:58 audreyt and they want ::REST and ::ClientSide to be deployed, more than Query/View abstractions
07:58 audreyt so will get those two polished first
08:00 pmurias the python guy was suprised that perl6 has an implementation
08:01 audreyt ...and two other implementations
08:01 pmurias told him that too
08:01 audreyt and all three are on CPAN :)
08:01 * audreyt praises CPAN some more.
08:01 pmurias he liked junctions thought
08:03 pmurias and when i told him about the grammar redefinability he liked it also and  wandered when will python
08:03 pmurias have it
08:04 pmurias is it posible to unimport syntax by the way?
08:04 audreyt that is a very deep and interesting question :)
08:04 pmurias eq. no statement_control <goto unless until>;
08:05 audreyt no GLOBAL < &statement_control:<until> >;
08:05 audreyt something like that
08:05 audreyt but I can see grammatical categs becoming pragmas of their own, maybe.
08:05 audreyt no infix '+';
08:06 audreyt I don't see why not. will be lots of fun :)
08:07 pmurias the python guy complained that too much things are in the core perl language, so it assumed he will be able to unimport them
08:07 audreyt yup.
08:07 audreyt can you work out a syntax and write a proposal to p6l?
08:08 pmurias i'll try
08:08 audreyt probably belongs to S04
08:08 audreyt I'd love to have something like that.
08:11 pmurias what's the best way to print the synopsis?
08:13 audreyt use the excellent CPAN module
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08:13 audreyt http://search.cpan.org/~ajfry/Pod-Pdf-1.2/
08:13 lambdabot Title: Alan J. Fry / Pod-Pdf-1.2 - search.cpan.org
08:13 audreyt 6 years old module, still gives the best formatting
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08:14 audreyt simply install and run "pod2pdf"
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08:17 azuroth morning/evening
08:17 audreyt reetings.
08:17 audreyt greetings.
08:18 Juerd nothingmuch: Please, if you want to contribute, submit a patch :)
08:19 Juerd nothingmuch: I'm afraid I don't have the time to investigate the matter in detail; though I knew that it sucks :)
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08:22 nothingmuch Juerd: okay, i'll try to find a spare 5 mins =)
08:22 nothingmuch audreyt: how was your flight?
08:23 Juerd nothingmuch: Thanks!
08:23 Juerd nothingmuch: Please keep it in the compared-to-Perl athmosphere
08:23 Juerd I've rejected contributions before because they were just anti PHP, without comparison
08:23 nothingmuch yeppers
08:23 Juerd Great, thanks
08:29 pmurias math&
08:36 svnbot6 r11845 | dolmans++ | use the conventional :toto style
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08:38 azuroth toto the dog?
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08:40 dolmans that's cute. typo is my nightmare.
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08:46 azuroth oh, I got a job!
08:47 audreyt congrats!
08:48 azuroth I was originally planning on getting my diploma, bumming around for half a year, and then doing university
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09:11 azuroth ?eval my @b = [1,2,3]; grep({1},@b).say; grep({1},@b[0]).say;
09:11 evalbot_11831 is now known as evalbot_11845
09:11 evalbot_11845 OUTPUT[123 123 ] Bool::True
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09:54 dolmans how to write another test case?
09:55 audreyt in the same .t file?
09:55 audreyt simply change the "plan 1" to "plan 2"
09:55 audreyt and then add another test case below
09:57 dolmans :), i know, but i'm hunting for a case, any suggestion?
09:58 audreyt oh btw, the -> in your test should be -->
09:58 audreyt look at S06.pod and find even more parametric types :)
09:59 * dolmans checking...
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10:11 * dolmans ask himself, `why i made so many misdakes?'
10:11 svnbot6 r11846 | dolmans++ | amendment to the function return symbol
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10:56 * agentzh is preparing for the patch for S05.
11:02 agentzh joined perl6
11:03 agentzh the patch for S05 looks huge. ;-)
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11:14 gaal interesting. I have a default method for class PLit in Perl6Class.hs line 91. And there's an instance on line 103 that looks like it's completely redundant, but I get compilation errors when I remove it. I don't understand why it's needed?
11:15 nothingmuch hola gaal
11:15 gaal when I say "class (Typeable a, Show a) => PLit a" isn't "instance (Typeable a, Show a) => PLit a" implicit?
11:15 gaal hey nothingmuch
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11:16 agentzh is "semantics" a plural count noun?
11:17 agentzh is the sentence "the semantics *are* confusing" correct?
11:17 nothingmuch gaal: http://www.scannedinavian.com/hope/entry/68
11:17 theorbtwo I'd say that's correct.
11:17 gaal I think so.
11:17 nothingmuch you should comment on that thread, methinks
11:17 theorbtwo Possibly more to the point, I'd say "The semantics is confusing" is wrong.
11:17 nothingmuch or wait
11:18 nothingmuch are you the guilty party for hasktags?
11:18 agentzh okay, thanks
11:18 gaal nothingmuch: no, I have a patch for exuberant ctags.
11:18 nothingmuch that's what i thought =)
11:20 nothingmuch jerkcity++
11:20 nothingmuch i have been following it for a while now, and i still don't know what they're talking about
11:20 nothingmuch yet i'm having fun =)
11:20 agentzh some comments in the sample code of the synopses are not "well-formed", should i fix them?
11:20 chris2 audreyt's rhox slides feature some neat examples with different output formats; where can i find the code for that?
11:22 gaal nothingmuch: hah, that patch made it to Gentoo somehow.
11:22 nothingmuch gaal: that's why i like gentoo
11:22 nothingmuch if you need silly features they usually have em
11:22 nothingmuch optional, of course
11:22 nothingmuch it makes a control freak like me happy =)
11:23 gaal oh wait no, the patch is by someone else, "Slightly based on haskell.c by Gaal Yahas"
11:23 gaal maybe it's better!
11:28 gaal hmm, it's a little more robust with whitespaces and character classes, and adds 'class', but it's basically the same thing. that is it doesn't do constructors and selectors, or instance methods.
11:28 broquaint Anyone know if there's an operator like this currently in Perl 6: http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=564792 # ?
11:28 lambdabot Title: Secret Perl Operators: the boolean list squash operator, x!!
11:29 gaal broquaint: 'x?'
11:29 broquaint So instead of doing COND ? THING : (), you can do (THING) x!! COND.
11:30 audreyt chris2: you mean the json/yaml/etc one?
11:30 chris2 audreyt: yes
11:30 audreyt chris2: installing plugins/REST/ from the jifty svn trunk gives you that
11:30 gaal broquaint: yes; in Perl 6 '?' forces bool context
11:30 audreyt in your jifty app, edit etc/config.yml
11:30 audreyt framework:
11:30 audreyt  Plugins:
11:30 audreyt    - REST: {}
11:31 * chris2 svn ups
11:31 broquaint Aha, thanks, gaal :)
11:31 audreyt that's it (the "framework:" key is already present)
11:31 audreyt then navigate to /=/model/ and /=/action/
11:31 chris2 *now* it's there!
11:31 chris2 it wasnt when you posted the draft slides, was it?
11:31 audreyt some of them were in the moose branch
11:31 audreyt some of them were in $job branch
11:31 audreyt but they were not in trunk, correct
11:32 chris2 thanks a lot
11:32 gaal broquaint: but I'm not sure about precedence here. could be that the named version is better. I think that's called lowercase 'true' now.
11:32 audreyt np :)
11:32 * chris2 steals it for his ruby thingy :P
11:32 audreyt good =)
11:32 audreyt I'd love to see yaml-based RESTish RPC between ruby and perl web app frameworks
11:33 Aankh|Clone is now known as Aankhen``
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11:33 chris2 okay/rpc exists :)
11:33 gaal and call it Rupee?
11:33 chris2 Peby
11:33 agentzh is the sentence "Just as A, so does B." correct?
11:34 gaal agentzh: when one of A and B have a verb.
11:34 agentzh gaal: so this is incorrect, isn't it?
11:34 gaal actually, A needs the verb.
11:34 Aankhen`` agentzh: It should be "Just as A does something, so does B".
11:34 agentzh A and B are nouns here.
11:35 agentzh following this reasoning, S05 is WRONG!!! yay!
11:35 gaal agentzh: context? what's the suspect sentence?
11:35 agentzh gaal: a sec...
11:36 agentzh "Just as C<rx> has variants, so does the C<regex> declarator."
11:36 gaal no, that's correct.
11:36 agentzh oh, A seems to have a verb..
11:36 agentzh gaal: okay, thanks
11:37 gaal np :)
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12:26 pasteling "age" at 210.22.200.67 pasted "My patch for S05 (will be sent to p6-l soon). Please comment." (407 lines, 14.2K) at http://sial.org/pbot/18732
12:27 pasteling "agentzh" at 210.22.200.67 pasted "My patch for S05 (will be sent to p6-l soon). Please comment. (Ingnore the previous paste)" (407 lines, 14.2K) at http://sial.org/pbot/18733
12:29 weinig|bbl is now known as weinig
12:29 nothingmuch agentzh: i suggest you wrap text, so that the committer doesn't have to.... what is the ss diff? ... The new C<:ratchet> modifier causes this regex to not backtrack - i think this is the correct form.
12:29 nothingmuch oh, he's not here =/
12:29 Aankhen`` age: "causes this regex to not" reads better than "causes this regex not to".
12:30 Aankhen`` Bleh.
12:32 pasteling "agentzh" at 210.22.200.67 pasted "thanks! will recover "to not backtrack" (btw I can't connect to IRC, so i use this to reply. ;-))" (1 line, 14B) at http://sial.org/pbot/18735
12:34 nothingmuch agentzh: if you need ssh access can help i can set you up an account on my machine where you can use irssi
12:34 nothingmuch within 2 mins
12:34 nothingmuch reply the same way =)
12:36 pasteling "agentzh" at 210.22.200.67 pasted "Cool! nothingmuch, please provide a (free) SOCKS proxy or something like that" (1 line, 14B) at http://sial.org/pbot/18736
12:37 nothingmuch agentzh: i can run an instance of nylon for you but I don't want to keep that up because they are easy to abuse
12:37 nothingmuch please nopaste a public ssh key
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12:37 nothingmuch boy that's secure, eh ;-)
12:38 nothingmuch agentzh: you have a socks running on pasta.woobling.org
12:38 nothingmuch restricted to your IIP
12:38 nothingmuch (based on the nopaste IPs)
12:39 pasteling "agentzh" at 210.22.200.67 pasted "nothingmuch: i don't quite follow you. what is SSH key? would you please send the account info to my mailbox? "agentzh at gmail dot com" thank you. :=)" (1 line, 7B) at http://sial.org/pbot/18739
12:41 nothingmuch agentzh: sent
12:43 meppl guten morgen
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12:48 pasteling "agentzh" at 210.22.200.67 pasted "nothingmuch: that does not help. I remember i'm behind my school's firewall. 210.22.200.67 is the firewall's IP. thank you all the same :D" (1 line, 14B) at http://sial.org/pbot/18740
12:49 nothingmuch agentzh: okay, what about the socks then? i have one running on pasta.woobling.org
12:50 agentzh joined perl6
12:51 nothingmuch hola agentzh
12:51 agentzh yay! i'm back! :=)
12:51 nothingmuch how did you manage?
12:51 agentzh i'm used a weird HTTP to SOCKS4 proxy in China
12:51 agentzh *using
12:51 nothingmuch ah
12:51 nothingmuch • [pasta:~] nothingmuch % sudo nylon  -f -v -a 210.22.200.67 -i eth0
12:51 nothingmuch Password:
12:51 nothingmuch nylon: Listening on bzq-84-108-53-74.cablep.bezeqint.net:socks
12:51 agentzh because it's free so it's very fragile
12:52 agentzh nothingmuch: i can't directly connect to any foreign sites here
12:53 agentzh every request should go through a chinese proxy
12:53 nothingmuch oh, so the socks server has to be behind the great firewall?
12:53 nothingmuch i see
12:53 agentzh the great firewall is not a problem.
12:53 agentzh the real problem is the little firewall of my university. :=)
12:53 nothingmuch ah
12:54 nothingmuch so which hosts/ports *are* allowed?
12:54 nothingmuch http?
12:54 agentzh http and https
12:54 nothingmuch try ssh -p 443 pasta.woobling.org
12:54 agentzh 80 and possibly 21
12:54 nothingmuch if it doesn't detect the traffic, just the port, it may work
12:54 agentzh trying...
12:54 nothingmuch that's why i have it set up that way
12:54 nothingmuch (university firewalls)--
12:56 agentzh nothingmuch: "[error] unable to solve host name"
12:56 nothingmuch urh
12:56 nothingmuch 84.108.53.74
12:56 agentzh trying...
12:59 nothingmuch agentzh: another option is CGI::IRC
13:00 nothingmuch http://cgiirc.sourceforge.net/
13:00 lambdabot Title: CGI:IRC - Web based IRC Client
13:00 nothingmuch i think feather.perl6.nl has an instance of it
13:00 nothingmuch Juerd: can you confirm?
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13:04 pasteling "agentzh" at 210.22.200.67 pasted "nothingmuch: IRC disconnected again. feather does have an CGI:IRC interface, but i'm getting this error: "An error occured: Communication socket already exists"" (1 line, 3B) at http://sial.org/pbot/18741
13:05 nothingmuch agenthzh: odd... you did join the channel for a second
13:05 nothingmuch any feather sudoer: can you reset my password to some dumb string?
13:05 nothingmuch i use an ssh key so i can't actually change it now
13:06 nothingmuch but i'd like to try CGI::IRC
13:07 pasteling "agentzh" at 210.22.200.67 pasted "nothingmuch: is there any way to kill the running socket on feather? (maybe i should write a Perl script to automate this paster)" (1 line, 4B) at http://sial.org/pbot/18742
13:10 nothingmuch pasteling: probably only as the www-data user (== someone with sudo)
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14:05 pasteling "agentzh" at 210.22.200.67 pasted "Updated patch for S05 (Aankhen``++, nothingmuch++). Please review. :=)" (397 lines, 13.8K) at http://sial.org/pbot/18744
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14:29 agentzh finally back...
14:30 agentzh Perl 6's ms/.../ was constantly reminding me of Microsoft while i was reading S05.
14:31 agentzh i think we had better switch to mm/.../ which looks more consistent with ss/.../ and furthermore...
14:32 agentzh mm has a side effect of having the meaning "pretty girl" in Chinese. ;-)
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14:46 agentzh ?eval my $a = 1..3; say @{ $a };
14:46 evalbot_11845 is now known as evalbot_11846
14:46 evalbot_11846 OUTPUT[1 2 3 ] Bool::True
14:46 agentzh question: are @{ ... } and %{ ... } still valid Perl 6?
14:48 agentzh i grepped through all the lastest synopses, only S05 uses this syntax, which is odd. (Maybe S05 is out of sync with others?)
14:49 agentzh i also have grepped the pugs test suit and have got the following results:
14:49 PerlJam agentzh: they ought to be valid. @{$capture} should give you the positiony things,  %{$capture} should give you the namey things.
14:50 agentzh PerlJam: but i think we should use the syntax @($capture) and %($captuer) per S02
14:50 agentzh or even @$capture and %$capture for short
14:51 PerlJam Hmm.
14:52 agentzh {...} is a always a clousure or a hash script
14:52 agentzh this meaning of {...} is very consistent in Perl 6 IMHO
14:52 PerlJam you're right.  /me isn't used to the nw world order yet
14:52 PerlJam s/nw/new/
14:52 agentzh PerlJam: :)
14:53 * agentzh is adding this kind of fixes to his patch for S05...
14:54 PerlJam yes, please do.  I'm looking at it now and the uses of @{...} appear vestigial
14:56 agentzh aye
14:59 Juerd nothingmuch: Confirmed
14:59 nothingmuch Juerd | agentzh &
15:01 agentzh ?
15:01 agentzh Juerd: why am i getting that error when using feather's CGI:IRC?
15:01 agentzh "Communication socket already exists"
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15:05 agentz Juerd: it's my proxy's fault or must i always use /quit or /part after using CGI:IRC?
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15:17 agentz PerlJam: mail sent to p6-l
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15:26 * agentzh finds S05 quite comfortable to read because it contains *many* samples.
15:27 agentzh hopefully @larry will add more sampe code to S02, S03, and S04. :)
15:29 ajs I would think that @{...} would be "the return value of ... as a list (possibly lazy)"
15:30 ajs Where @(...) would be "the value of the expression ... as a list (possibly lazy)"
15:30 PerlJam ajs: I would think @{...} would be "evaluate this closure in an array context"  :)
15:30 agentzh ajs: i think lists are always lazy in Perl 6 :)
15:30 ajs PerlJam: you said the same thing I did, but I'm talking about the return value treatment and you're talking about the evaluation
15:30 PerlJam ajs: list != array
15:31 ajs agentzh: No. Lists are always lazy IF THEY CAN BE. So, it's important to note that an expression can be lazy
15:31 agentzh the difference between lists and arrays is quite fuzzy to me.
15:31 agentzh ajs: of course
15:32 agentzh PerlJam: why not simply { ... }?
15:32 ajs agentzh: lists are collections of values with inspecific typing. Arrays are a data structure. (as I understand it)
15:32 agentzh @ is redundant in your usage
15:32 agentzh ajs: thanks
15:32 PerlJam agentzh: I'm not sure there isn't some difference between "list context" and "array context"
15:33 agentzh PerlJam: you're confusing me even more. ;-)
15:33 ajs Consider "$x = {...}" vs "$x = @{...}" These are radically different things (potentially)
15:33 agentzh ajs: indeed
15:33 ajs PerlJam: Array context would imply the creation of a datastructure, no? I'm guessing based on your usage.
15:34 PerlJam ajs: that makes some sense to me, yes.
15:34 ajs It's not a different context though. It's just a behavior
15:34 svnbot6 r11847 | fglock++ | pX/Pugs-Compiler-Rule - more tests; code cleanup
15:34 PerlJam agentzh: confusion is that natural state of humanity  :)
15:34 ajs The evaluation would still be in list context
15:34 PerlJam (especially around #perl6)
15:34 agentzh ?eval $x = @(do { 1..5 });
15:34 evalbot_11846 Error:  unexpected "(" expecting "::"
15:35 agentzh ?eval $x = @{ 1..5 };
15:35 evalbot_11846 Error: Undeclared variable: "$x"
15:35 agentzh ?eval my $x = @(do { 1..5 });
15:35 ajs heh
15:35 evalbot_11846 Error:  unexpected "(" expecting "::"
15:35 * agentzh stops playing
15:35 ajs ?eval my $x = @{ 1..5 };
15:35 evalbot_11846 [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
15:36 ajs And there you have it
15:36 agentzh it's not specified i'm afraid
15:36 ludan joined perl6
15:36 ajs It's specified in the source ;)
15:36 agentzh consider everything not mentioned in Perl 6 Spec should stay just the same as it was in Perl 5
15:36 agentzh then yes
15:51 buetow joined perl6
16:01 Wikipedia-Gast66 joined perl6
16:02 Wikipedia-Gast66 why
16:02 Limbic_Region why not?
16:03 PerlJam ask not "why?", but rather, "why not?"
16:03 Wikipedia-Gast66 why
16:03 merlyn y? :)
16:03 Limbic_Region ok - because
16:03 Wikipedia-Gast66 merlyn sucks
16:03 Limbic_Region no, merlyn guzzles
16:04 Wikipedia-Gast66 Limbic_Region sucks
16:05 * PerlJam sounds the troll gong ...  *BONG*  
16:09 pmurias it looks more like an artificial life form to me
16:10 Wikipedia-Gast66 does it?
16:10 pmurias does it not?
16:10 amnesiac joined perl6
16:11 Psyche^ joined perl6
16:12 pmurias Limbic_Region: why should things not mentioned int the Synopsis implicitly fall through into perl 6?
16:20 Psyche^ is now known as StudiesInWords
16:23 cdpruden joined perl6
16:25 Limbic_Region pmurias - huh?  When did I say anything regarding that?
16:29 PerlJam pmurias: Larry has said that things that exist in perl5 but aren't in the perl6 spec are assumed to be "just like perl5"
16:31 rgs formats !
16:32 PerlJam formats are specced.
16:33 rgs damn. pack templates? :)
16:34 Limbic_Region no, they are specced to no longer be part of the core and to see Damian
16:34 Limbic_Region IOW - relegated to a module
16:34 rgs I remember that;
16:34 rgs I was just switching my troll to the support of pack() in perl 6
16:34 Wikipedia-Gast66 rgs sucks
16:34 [particle] reset ;)
16:35 PerlJam ??
16:35 PerlJam study
16:35 [particle] (i know that's specced out of existance)
16:35 PerlJam any others?
16:35 Wikipedia-Gast66 PerlJam sucks
16:35 [particle] am i invisible?
16:35 Limbic_Region chop
16:35 * Limbic_Region thinks chop is gone anyway
16:35 Wikipedia-Gast66 Limbic_Region sucks
16:35 PerlJam yep
16:36 [particle] hrmm, it may be
16:36 [particle] Wikipedia-Gast66: you suck! :P
16:36 PerlJam [particle]: You may be invisible, but I can still see the text you type :)
16:36 [particle] i'm just invisible to the stupid bot
16:36 [particle] ...which should be kicked
16:36 PerlJam indeed!
16:37 * [particle] is not a channel op
16:37 Wikipedia-Gast66 PerlJam sucks
16:37 PerlJam Wikipedia-Gast66 sucks
16:37 Wikipedia-Gast66 no
16:37 PerlJam yes
16:37 Wikipedia-Gast66 PerlJam is gay
16:38 * [particle] hands out square brackets to the crowd
16:38 [particle] heh, whaddayaknow, there are no channel ops here
16:39 rgs square brackets suck
16:39 [particle] :)
16:39 PerlJam all bracketing constructs suck
16:39 [particle] perhaps i should call them earmuffs :)
16:39 Limbic_Region if #perl6 is anything like #perl - no channel ops by default, you "power up", do the deed, and "power down"
16:39 PerlJam They're too ... constraining :)
16:40 [particle] perhaps you should learn about quantum tunneling
16:40 * Limbic_Region knows about quantum tunneling
16:41 Limbic_Region without it, the universe as we know it (including us) wouldn't exist
16:42 Limbic_Region well, that's probably not true but other than divine intervention - there are no competing theories ;-)
16:43 svnbot6 r11848 | fglock++ | pX/Pugs-Compiler-Rule - fixed infinite loop in backtracking; more tests
16:50 sheriff joined perl6
16:51 Wikipedia-Gast66 svnbot6 sucks
16:53 sheriff left perl6
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17:10 rodi joined perl6
17:10 svnbot6 r11849 | fglock++ | pX/Pugs-Compiler-Rule - 247 tests pass, 2 skipped
17:10 salty-horse audreyt, have you thought about soft linking pugs/docs/Perl6/Syn/ to the real synopsis repository using svn:externals? I, for one, don't run onfigure.PL every day (as opposed to "svn up; make")
17:12 obra svn:externals doesn't work well with svk
17:13 salty-horse obra, don't you mean svk doesn't work well with svn:externals? :)
17:13 avar joined perl6
17:15 obra no, I mean "svn:externals is a bloody-awful hack that's damn near useless"
17:15 obra :0
17:15 obra :)
17:17 pdcawley joined perl6
17:17 salty-horse i know one project that uses it to include development versions third-party projects in its tree, so it's good for atleast *one* thing. do many people here use svk?
17:18 PerlJam salty-horse: I'll venture to say "yes"
17:19 obra salty-horse: most of the core developers
17:19 obra salty-horse: you run into big problems if the other repository goes away. and you lose versioning on those remote projects
17:20 rodi additionally, if you want to go hiking in the mountains of Taiwan to find hot springs, you need SVK.
17:21 rodi SVN is totally unsuitable for hotspring-finding.
17:22 * PerlJam wonders how clkao powers his laptop on such hikes
17:22 salty-horse rodi, I don't have a laptop, so I'm not sure I could use SVK or SVN on such trips, if I ever visit the hot-springed Taiwanian mountains
17:24 SubStack joined perl6
17:25 rodi salty-horse: my problem is getting to Taiwan.  Maybe between the two of us, we could work something out ;)
17:30 salty-horse rodi, send me your laptop. i'll see what I can do
17:33 salty-horse where does it say in the synopsis that I can use a semicolon to seperate arguments in a parenthesised sub call? say("foo"; "bar")
17:36 pmurias fglock: ping
17:37 PerlJam salty-horse: I think you want http://dev.perl.org/perl6/doc/de​sign/syn/S06.html#Feed_operators
17:37 lambdabot Title: Synopsis 6: Subroutines -
17:40 ludan help
17:41 salty-horse hmm.. thanks PerlJam
17:43 ludan /me &
17:43 ludan /me &
17:44 fglock pmurias: pong
17:51 unobe_away is now known as unobe
17:59 cdpruden_ joined perl6
18:05 pdcawley joined perl6
18:05 pmurias fglock: you pinged me before
18:06 fglock pmurias: sorry, I forgot why :)
18:10 pmurias how is the refactoring PCR going?
18:10 unobe is now known as unobe_away
18:11 fglock pmurias: I'm merging now, but it will take some time - there are many differences
18:12 gaal and thus nothingmuch and agentzh developed IP over nopaste :)
18:15 pmurias did you look into Parse-Rule
18:15 pmurias ?
18:15 fglock pmurias: not yet - looking
18:17 svnbot6 r11850 | fglock++ | pX/Pugs-Compiler-Rule - started merging with perl5/Pugs-Compiler-Rule;
18:17 svnbot6 r11850 | fglock++ | - updated ChangeLog, TODO; version is now 0.12_01
18:19 fglock pmurias: Parse-Rule might be useful for the v6-Compiler project
18:22 weinig is now known as weinig|bbl
18:22 pmurias it would probably need some architectural changes to support emitters
18:26 fglock pmurias: it needs to use the precedence parser, and implement dynamic grammar too
18:26 svnbot6 r11851 | fglock++ | pX/Pugs-Compiler-Rule - merged up to PCR 0.11
18:30 pmurias dynamic grammar == magic hashes?
18:31 fglock the new PCR runs the test suite in about 60% of the time
18:31 fglock pmurias: yes
18:31 pmurias fglock: wow
18:32 rodi is now known as rodi_away
18:33 * pmurias is learning Pod::Parser , so he can massage the synopsis for printing
18:34 pmurias fglock: how much would faster would a C version of ratcher be?
18:34 pmurias s/ratcher/ratcher
18:36 fglock pmurias: it would depend a lot on the unicode library and on how you interface to the object system - but I think 10x to 100x would be reasonable
18:37 fglock mm - it uses about 30% less memory too
18:44 thepler joined perl6
18:46 weinig|bbl is now known as weinig
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19:25 Southen joined perl6
19:32 pmurias fglock: an evil non-unicode version could be made for the speed freaks :)
19:45 pmurias sleep&
20:09 gaal TimToady: "=head1 Changes to Perl 5 operators" -> shouldn't that be changes *from* Perl 5 operators?
20:12 chris2 joined perl6
20:17 TreyHarris gaal: would be more logical, but less idiomatic English.
20:18 TreyHarris actually, i'm not sure it would be more logical.  i might expect a section called "changes from Ruby operators, changes from Java operators, etc. etc."
20:21 lolage joined perl6
20:21 svnbot6 r11852 | lwall++ | Changed ${...} forms to $(...)
20:23 hexmode joined perl6
20:27 [particle] joined perl6
20:35 Dr_Pi_ is now known as Dr_Pi
20:37 gaal TreyHarris: the thing that's changed isn't Perl 5.
20:57 SageLT joined perl6
21:00 svnbot6 r11853 | lwall++ | Start changing !~ to !~~, but I can't test until Parrot_exit gets sorted out...
21:03 TimToady anyone here know how to add a ParrotInterp arg to parrot_exit?  It doesn't like me.
21:04 PerlJam TimToady: I bet someone on irc.perl.org #parrot knows :)
21:05 TimToady this is a Haskell question...
21:06 TimToady If I do the obvious cargo-culty thing, I get in trouble with the IO monad somehow
21:06 audreyt line 360
21:06 audreyt foreign import ccall "Parrot_exit"
21:06 audreyt    parrot_exit :: CInt -> IO ()
21:06 TimToady got that part
21:06 audreyt the signature needs to change to match the C-land conv
21:07 audreyt and then line 214
21:07 audreyt        parrot_exit 0
21:07 audreyt becomes
21:07 audreyt        parrot_exit interp 0
21:07 audreyt that should be all
21:07 TimToady Oh, I had _ParrotInterp there
21:09 audreyt *nod* it's a IORef, not the actual interp
21:09 audreyt        interp <- readIORef _ParrotInterp
21:09 audreyt that reads the interp out from the IORef (aka Scalar)
21:11 leo audreyt: I hope that change to Parrot_exit is matching your expectations
21:12 audreyt certainly is :) if that means we can retire the horrible setjmp kluge, then yes
21:13 leo hopefully yes and imcc compile errors are now catchable exceptions
21:13 audreyt leo++
21:13 audreyt yay. :)
21:14 leo the latter is courtesy of vsoni
21:14 audreyt vsoni++
21:14 leo indeed
21:16 leo see e.g. tail -18 t/pmc/eval.t
21:16 leo # in the parrot tree
21:18 audreyt *nod*
21:19 audreyt waking up at 5am. not bad for first day of jetlag
21:19 leo in combination with push_new_c_exception_handler() you should be able to catch this exception - I hope
21:19 audreyt ok. I'll take a look
21:20 audreyt after some more sleep I hope :)
21:20 audreyt TimToady++ # chasing up parrotembed churn
21:20 audreyt brb...
21:30 avar joined perl6
21:31 svnbot6 r11854 | fglock++ | pX/Pugs-Compiler-Rule - merged Token hash and array interpolation; 8 more tests
21:31 svnbot6 r11855 | lwall++ | Parrot_exit and Parrot_on_exit now take interpreter arg.
21:36 cjeris left perl6
21:55 svnbot6 r11856 | lwall++ | Dewarnify embedder.
22:07 svnbot6 r11857 | fglock++ | pX/Pugs-Compiler-Rule - svn properties;
22:07 svnbot6 r11857 | fglock++ | - merged 'negate' node
22:13 weinig_ joined perl6
22:14 audreyt TimToady: does this mean we get a
22:14 audreyt infix_prefix_meta_operator:<!>
22:14 audreyt i.e. a new metaop syncateg?
22:15 rodi_away is now known as rodi
22:16 svnbot6 r11858 | fglock++ | pXPugs-Compiler-Rule - TODO
22:17 TimToady audreyt: presumably
22:17 svnbot6 r11859 | Sage++ | The isInSequence function used for finding nodes in order now accepts junk in between matched nodes (so comments can't throw off a translation by mucking with a match).
22:18 TimToady I could see infix_prefix_meta_operator:<-> applied to cmp and <=>
22:18 TimToady but maybe not
22:19 audreyt -cmp looks like filetest
22:19 TimToady not as infix
22:19 audreyt $x -cmp $b
22:19 TimToady but the - does rather disappear
22:19 TimToady $x !cmp $b doesn't quite work
22:20 audreyt $x flip cmp $y
22:20 TimToady probably not worth it, given most sorts will be done with sigs rather than closures
22:20 audreyt yeah.
22:20 TimToady can always define your own revcmp
22:20 TimToady if you need to pass one in
22:21 justatheory joined perl6
22:21 svnbot6 r11860 | Sage++ | "@array" -> "@array[]" and "%hash"->"%hash{}" translations completed.
22:21 svnbot6 r11860 | Sage++ | Once regexs now translate: ?foo? -> m:once/foo/. This is performed BEFORE modifier translations (which I added yesterday) so as to not perturb anything.
22:21 svnbot6 r11860 | Sage++ | Some other clarifications and comments, just little fixes.
22:21 TimToady infix:<cmp>.assuming(:a($b),:b($a))  :)
22:22 audreyt :D
22:25 audreyt [!~~=] $x, $y, $z;
22:25 audreyt presumably legal?
22:28 TimToady probably not, but merely because = doesn't apply itself to boolean producers
22:28 TimToady don't have eq= either
22:30 audreyt 'k
22:31 audreyt and ||= works only because it's not technically boolean
22:31 audreyt and !||= would work
22:32 audreyt $x ~~= /.../; # $x now becomes Match object
22:32 TimToady probably not, if !|| binds tighter
22:32 audreyt yeah, that was the question
22:32 TimToady and I think it does
22:32 audreyt 'k
22:36 svnbot6 r11861 | fglock++ | pX/Pugs-Compiler-Rule - fixed <!before> rule; added tests
22:37 Southen_ joined perl6
22:38 larsen joined perl6
22:38 TimToady I wonder why my t/perl5/method.t and t/perl5/roundtrip.t tests always hang...
22:42 audreyt hangs here too...
22:42 audreyt fixing
22:49 Southen joined perl6
22:52 audreyt Jet lag hits!  You feel dizzy. --More--
22:52 audreyt (sigh. bbiab)
23:11 b_jonas joined perl6
23:44 rodi joined perl6
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