Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2006-08-15

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:18 dduncan success!
00:18 dduncan thank you cmarcelo, Pugs builds now
00:19 dduncan for me
00:20 cmarcelo dduncan: nice =)
00:20 diakopter trying on macintel...
00:21 Patterner the compile time for pugs on an old powerbook is three days (with interruptions) by now...
00:22 diakopter optimized or un
00:22 nekokak joined perl6
00:22 Patterner guess :)
00:22 diakopter optimized
00:23 Patterner 10 points for diakopter. 0 points for the UK.
00:23 diakopter lots of warning while making Judy
00:24 Patterner no wait. wrong directory. it's ghc.
00:25 diakopter 6 min. to compile on macintel, unoptimized.
00:26 rindolf joined perl6
00:27 diakopter anyone around who feels like handing out a task (for me to do)?
00:29 Patterner macintel != old pb
00:29 Patterner (i'll upgrade when they stop exploding)
00:29 * diakopter 's has stopped exploding
00:30 Patterner good for you :)
00:33 diakopter ok, no assigners around... any suggesters, even?  any ideas on what I could work on?  I can do perl5 and I've read the Apocalypses, Synopses, Exegeses, Apocrypha, and some Haskell tutorials.
00:34 diakopter I'm somewhat familiar with the source tree
00:35 Patterner translate the docs to klingon
00:35 diakopter - isn't there a p5 module that does that?
00:55 audreyt diakopter: there's a TASKS file :)
00:55 diakopter sort of
00:56 diakopter audreyt - good morning
00:56 audreyt hi
00:58 audreyt changes topic to: SVK users: http://search.cpan.org/dist/SVN-Mirror/ | paste: http://sial.org/pbot/perl6 | pugs.blogs.com | pugscode.org | pugs.kwiki.org | http://www.treehugger.com/f​iles/th_images/paradigm.jpg
01:01 audreyt diakopter: are you interested in coding up runpugs? :)
01:01 audreyt I mean trypugs
01:01 diakopter yes but I have a Module::Build question for you before I get started on something
01:01 audreyt er, ok, but I know very little about M::B
01:02 diakopter this isn't you?  http://www.perlfoundation.org​/gc/grants/2003_autrijus.html
01:02 lambdabot Title: 2003 Grants - Autrijus Tang - The Perl Foundation
01:03 diakopter oh, I see, mostly not done by you on that part; nm
01:06 audreyt yeah. I reanimated MakeMaker with Module::Install instead of joining the shiny Module::Build crowd...
01:08 diakopter yes.  how far did cwest get with the Jifty implementation... is it in pugs svn?
01:08 audreyt no. I think it fizzled somehow
01:08 diakopter you're about done with Jifty, right?
01:09 diakopter or are there lots of ambitions still to be realized
01:09 diakopter I read the ppt about it
01:09 audreyt I think a generic line-based process harness to the web may be the right answer
01:10 audreyt but I can't quite find something like that on CPAN
01:10 diakopter are you planning on running this on feather?
01:10 audreyt diakopter: Jifty is my day $job :) and I need to run in ~1hr to $client side and hack more jidty
01:10 audreyt diakopter: yes, perhaps in a chrooted quota'ed place. or I can run it in a freebsd jail somewhere, like pugscode.org
01:12 diakopter my Module::Build problems appeared when I was installing SVK in order to host a SVN::Web view of pugscode diffs
01:12 diakopter mostly for my own benefit.  I learn well from reading diffs
01:14 diakopter the client side is trivial, obviously.  I could do a super-quick implementation in WebGUI, since that's the web app framework with which I'm familiar
01:15 diakopter super-quick meaning compared to jifty (for me)
01:15 audreyt oh cool
01:15 audreyt # http://rt.openfoundry.org/Foundry/P​roject/Source/index.html/pugs/log/
01:15 lambdabot Title: OpenFoundry(è‡ªç”±è»Ÿé«”é‘„é€ å ´-專案開發平台) -- OSSF
01:15 audreyt sure, whatever works :)
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01:23 svnbot6 r12235 | markstos++ | ChangeLog updates
01:26 audreyt (bbiab)
01:44 svnbot6 r12236 | lwall++ | s:g/FIRST/START/ (Note, didn't change firstBlock storage, since we still
01:44 svnbot6 r12236 | lwall++ | have a FIRST.  START doesn't need blocktrait storage since it's inline code.)
01:54 TreyHarris "may occur only at the top level of such a loop block".  so that means you can put it immediately within the outermost braces of the loop you want it to refer to, but it doesn't mean you can't have a nested loop and control that with another NEXT, right?
01:54 diakopter joined perl6
01:55 TreyHarris So... for @a { if $x { NEXT { ... } } } is invalid, but for @a { for @b { NEXT { ... } } } is valid, with the NEXT block referring to the for @b?
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02:00 TreyHarris &'s to uncommute
02:04 dduncan fyi, I've just started my first smoke since 6.2.12 was released ...
02:05 dduncan or at least, thought I did...
02:06 dduncan cmarcelo et al, it seems the build process is still borked
02:06 cmarcelo dduncan: what's happening?
02:07 dduncan while Pugs built fine, subsequently trying to say 'make smoke' caused some sort of make to recheck itself, and that deleted some files
02:07 dduncan eg, it now says: /usr/bin/ld: table of contents for archive: third-party/installed/libJudy.a is out of date; rerun ranlib(1) (can't load from it)
02:07 dduncan also, the pugs executable disappeared
02:08 cmarcelo err.. =P still have the entire output to paste?
02:08 dduncan and the previously built Pugs did execute too
02:08 dduncan I only have the output due to make smoke, since the make worked before
02:08 dduncan but will supply that
02:08 cmarcelo fine
02:10 pasteling "dduncan" at 24.69.53.198 pasted "'make smoke' causing pugs to be deleted, after successful 'make' with no interim pulls" (263 lines, 18.2K) at http://sial.org/pbot/18999
02:12 dduncan still, that's rather telling by itself
02:12 dduncan good luck figuring it out
02:14 cmarcelo i'll try to reproduce it here.. also, I don't know why it always should re-compile (or try to) pugs when making smoke =P
02:20 cmarcelo dduncan: here it goes fine.
02:20 cmarcelo =(
02:22 dduncan I have just pulled the last 2 revs and will try again
02:22 dduncan but without a prior cleaning
02:23 cmarcelo ok.
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02:29 SamB is now known as boo
02:29 boo is now known as SamB
02:30 dduncan okay, so after running 'svk pull' and 'make', the latter ends with this as before: /usr/bin/ld: table of contents for archive: third-party/installed/libJudy.a is out of date; rerun ranlib(1) (can't load from it)
02:33 cmarcelo dduncan, go third-party/judy/Judy-1.0.3 and do a make clean there, then back to pugs root, try make...
02:34 dduncan will do
02:44 cmarcelo dduncan: something?
02:44 dduncan yes, that worked
02:45 dduncan however, simply running make again will bork it
02:45 dduncan by contrast, if there are no source changes since a prior make, then make should have no lasting effect, and that's what it used to do
02:46 dduncan the way this is behaving is ...
02:46 cmarcelo yep.. we could prepend make-call in util/build_pugs.pl with a make-clean.. but that will recompile judy everytime.. =P
02:46 dduncan its like the old copy is always deleted, and then another one remade only conditionally
02:47 dduncan perhaps the removal and remake should be together in the same conditional?
02:47 cmarcelo dduncan: smoke always started a recompilation of Pugs, which resulted in no file being recompiled (all skipped) but the linking step always happened...
02:47 dduncan this is acting like the make process is deleting some interim file at the end that it shouldn't be deleting
02:48 dduncan and the only way that comes back is a Judy make-clean
02:48 dduncan plus make
02:49 dduncan are you saying this behaviour doesn't happen to you?
02:49 cmarcelo dduncan: lets try something else.. do a make clean in judy then make pugs... this should work... THEN, comment in util/build_pugs.pl the judy stanza and make..
02:49 cmarcelo doesn't happen here.. make, then make smoke, goes fine.
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02:55 dduncan I will try editing that file a few times to see what changes do or don't make the problem go away
02:58 cmarcelo dduncan: ok. looks like when make(in judy) have nothing to do here, it really doesn't break things and the same files get copied in the right places... this is not the case for you. maybe avoiding doing anything at all when libJudy.a is already in place can solve the problem..
02:58 cmarcelo [makes sense?]
02:58 dduncan I think so
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03:01 cmarcelo wanna try it there and see if works?
03:01 dduncan I still have to figure out exactly what to do
03:02 cmarcelo dduncan: do you program in perl? test for installed/lbiJudy.a existence, if its the case, do nothing, else, do our steps including a make clean...
03:03 dduncan yes, give me time here ...
03:03 cmarcelo ok, np
03:13 dduncan seems to be working ... I will commit a patch that does this existence test
03:14 cmarcelo dduncan: great! now we must remember this when updating C judy code =o) [need to purge libJudy.a to update it]
03:15 dduncan but I was testing for third-party/judy/Judy-1.0.​3/src/obj/.libs/libJudy.a existence
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03:15 dduncan because that was the original copy
03:15 cmarcelo dduncan: ok. but even so, if we change a .c in judy tree, it'll be recompiled?
03:16 dduncan probably not
03:16 cmarcelo ok. but by now judy C tree won't change much, so commit your patch...
03:16 dduncan I just add an if-block around the 5 lines starting at build_pugs.pl line 98
03:21 svnbot6 r12237 | Darren_Duncan++ | updated util/build_pugs.pl to only go through the Judy make process if third-party/judy/Judy-1.0.​3/src/obj/.libs/libJudy.a doesn't exist ... otherwise, any 'make' following the one that builds Judy will cause a Judy object file to disappear and not be remade, leading to Pugs build failure ... on some systems like mine (OS X) anyway
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03:32 cmarcelo audreyt: i'll let blog activities for tomorrow, after the build process stabilize.. besides doing what i can to unbreak build proc, i'm investigating the Judy.Hash "related" segfaults (is gaal looking onto this too?)..
03:33 cmarcelo (finally..) sleep &
03:44 dduncan turns out I had to install 'Task-Smoke' and 'Best' since last month, but ...
03:44 dduncan now that that's done, my smoke is underway
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05:27 agentzh joined perl6
05:28 agentzh wow, it's very strange that perl 5's "glob 'Judy*/*.o'" doesn't work properly on particle's machine. :/
05:30 agentzh okay, i'll try to tidy up the output while compiling judy on win32 in order to make it less "spectacular". ;-)
05:31 agentzh last night's work is mostly a hack.
05:31 agentzh *was
05:59 gaal re synopsis patch r10944 - what about nested loop blocks?
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06:00 agentzh yes, TimToady's wording is ambiguous there.
06:00 gaal and, what is the definition of "loop" for this purpose? what about user-defined control structures?
06:00 svnbot6 r12238 | agentz++ | tidied up the outputs while building Judy on Win32.
06:00 svnbot6 r12238 | agentz++ | adjusted build_pugs.pl a bit.
06:01 gaal also, having both START and BEGIN will cause, uh, no end to confusion...
06:01 agentzh i'm not sure if r12238 would break unix build. please test.
06:01 agentzh gaal: *nod*
06:01 gaal agentzh: testing.
06:02 agentzh gaal++
06:02 gaal should I clean anything before testing?
06:03 agentzh gaal: no.
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06:03 gaal works.
06:03 agentzh incremental make is sufficient.
06:03 agentzh great
06:04 agentzh gaal: is it necessary to compile Judy everytime?
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06:04 gaal I don't think so! chase dependencies like 'make' does.
06:04 agentzh the unix part doesn't compile Judy if libJudy.a is already there.
06:05 gaal Well, good, if the timestamps are reasonable
06:05 gaal that is if the .a is newer than the .hs etc.
06:05 agentzh gaal: currently there's no 'make' logic for win32. :/
06:05 agentzh writing a Makefile for Win32 Judy will be a lot of work i'm afraid.
06:06 gaal TimToady: I know you don't like longish names, but how about CLOSURE_INIT for START?
06:06 gaal agentzh: the .c or the .hs part?
06:06 agentzh gaal: i think TimToady dislikes underscores.
06:07 gaal I know he does
06:07 agentzh the .c part.
06:08 gaal agentzh: there's a Makefile.am there: a windows makefile should be generated by autotools, *if* you're using the gnu toolchain to build...
06:08 gaal another alternative is SETUP {...}
06:08 agentzh looking
06:08 gaal agentzh: what builds it on w32 now?
06:09 agentzh gaal: .bat
06:09 gaal ah.
06:09 gaal where?
06:09 agentzh a quite long .bat translated by hand from sh scripts last night.
06:09 agentzh gaal: a sec...
06:10 agentzh gaal: third-party/judy/Judy-1.0.3/src/hs_build.bat
06:11 agentzh transcoding hs_build.bat to nmake's Makefile is not an easy task. :)
06:11 gaal wow, yes, I see
06:11 agentzh given the C part of Judy compilation is pretty fast on my machine, i'd say it's okay to rebuild Judy everytime the Win32 user types "nmake" or its families.
06:12 agentzh it's just a few seconds.
06:12 agentzh the bottleneck is other parts of the pugs build system.
06:13 scw Could any one help me on the problem stated in the last section of http://0rz.net/691Gv ?
06:13 lambdabot Title: Yet Another Pugs Hacker's Blog: August 15th, 2006 -- Last Day of SoC
06:15 gaal scw: why not emit the annotation?
06:16 gaal what's the "string" function?
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06:18 gaal oh, it's a parsec builtin.
06:18 gaal scw: what does your parser construct? from the type annotation it looks like it builds a string?
06:20 scw gaal: I couldn't emit the annotation since I don't know the type
06:20 svnbot6 r12239 | agentz++ | [third-party/judy/Judy-1.0.3/src/hs_build.bat]
06:20 svnbot6 r12239 | agentz++ | removed a huge amount of annoying comments from the source.
06:21 scw gaal: It will, as the type tells, return a "parser state" with a string
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06:27 gaal scw: what's the minimal stuff I need to do to get a sample output from this?
06:32 pasteling "gaal" at 192.115.25.249 pasted "rule2parsec.pl failure" (8 lines, 763B) at http://sial.org/pbot/19005
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06:35 gaal scw: ping?
06:39 svnbot6 r12240 | agentz++ | [t/syntax/comments.t]
06:39 svnbot6 r12240 | agentz++ | fixed the "unspace in comment" test to reflect recent changes to S02. TimToady++
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06:40 dduncan first smoke this month seems to be a success ...
06:41 agentzh dduncan: have you put the smoke report somewhere?
06:42 agentzh later &
06:42 agentzh left perl6
06:42 dduncan yes ... its on the smokeserv as usual
06:43 dduncan spefically its the: Haskell runcore, repository snapshot / darwin of r12237 that took 136 minutes
06:44 gaal scw: it's not clear to me what LiteralPatch is against. My version of Pugs.Parser.Literal doesn't match that patch
06:45 dduncan so the execution speed seems unchanged from a couple months ago ... not sure if it was supposed to with recent updates or not
06:45 gaal could you give a command line that emits a sample parser please?
07:05 scw gaal: I use perl -I../../../perl5/Pugs-Compiler-Rule/lib -I../../../perl5/Pugs-Grammar-MiniPerl6/lib rule2parsec.pl Literal.grammar
07:06 scw gaal: the patch should be applied to the generated .hs file
07:06 scw gaal: but according to the error message you got, the Pugs::Grammar::MiniPerl6 part seams not the main reason
07:07 scw gaal: You may need to run 'make' under perl5/Pugs
07:07 scw gaal: You may need to run 'make' under perl5/Pugs-Compiler-Rule
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07:23 gaal scw: ACK. installing prerequisites...
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07:34 gaal scw: looks like you need the following declaration in scope:
07:34 gaal instance MonadState RuleState RuleParser where
07:34 gaal    get = getState
07:34 gaal    put = setState
07:34 gaal (lifted from src/Pugs/Parser/Types.hs)
07:40 scw gaal: so why does type annotation work?
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07:42 scw gaal: and, how can an instanciation declaration be exported?
07:46 gaal scw: my bad, you're importing Pugs.Parser.Types already. hmm.
07:46 gaal how do you compile the generated .hs code?
07:52 gaal scw: the problem requiring your annotation is that haskell can only infer type up to a paramaterized parser:
07:52 gaal @type option
07:52 lambdabot Not in scope: `option'
07:52 gaal @type Text.ParserCombinators.ReadP.option
07:52 lambdabot forall a. -> Text.ParserCombinators.ReadP.ReadP a -> Text.ParserCombinators.ReadP.ReadP a
07:53 gaal you need to supply the "a", otherwise the type of your function is ReadParser a
07:54 gaal as for how *you* infer it's a String... good question :) you either do type inference on the (Perl) rule, or require an annotation there.
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08:11 scw gaal: But doesn't 'option "" ' part make a be [Char] = String ?
08:12 scw Hmm... however, currently I assume ALL rules without their own production rule have type ReadParser String
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10:13 svnbot6 r12241 | audreyt++ | * t/oo/roles/basic.t: Now that roles work in compile time,
10:13 svnbot6 r12241 | audreyt++ |   let them take place in compile time.
10:16 svnbot6 r12242 | audreyt++ | * Fix build system for GHC 6.5 trunk 2006-07-25 and later,
10:16 svnbot6 r12242 | audreyt++ |   which incoporated Simon Marlow's implementation of
10:16 svnbot6 r12242 | audreyt++ |   "Generalise Package Support", a.k.a. multiversioning.
10:16 svnbot6 r12242 | audreyt++ |   We now always install Pugs into third-party/installed/,
10:16 svnbot6 r12242 | audreyt++ |   and link Main.hs against it.
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10:55 svnbot6 r12243 | audreyt++ | * agentzh++ noted that "\13\10" should mean simply "1310",
10:55 svnbot6 r12243 | audreyt++ |   but that broke Net::IRC, and therefore broke evalbot.
10:55 svnbot6 r12243 | audreyt++ |   Fixed to say "\d[13,10]" instead.
10:58 evalbot_23394 joined perl6
10:58 audreyt I wonder if "\0123" is a warnable offense
10:58 svnbot6 r12244 | audreyt++ | * evalbot-loop: make it svn/svk agnostic
10:58 svnbot6 r12245 | audreyt++ | * it's chat.freenode.net not irc.freenode.net
10:58 audreyt ?eval "moose"
10:58 evalbot_23394 "moose"
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11:07 agentzh audreyt: should S02 explicitly outlaw the "\ddd" notation?
11:07 TimToady joined perl6
11:07 audreyt I think so as it departs from perl5
11:08 agentzh what if fire off a mail to p6l?
11:08 audreyt similar to Initial C<0> no longer indicates octal numbers by itself.  You must use
11:08 agentzh oh, TimToady is here.
11:08 iblechbot joined perl6
11:08 agentzh audreyt: *nod*
11:09 agentzh i must use the 0o prefix.
11:16 * agentzh has sent the mail to p6l.
11:17 cmarcelo joined perl6
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11:22 agentzh ?eval $x = do 3+2;
11:22 evalbot_23394 is now known as evalbot_23396
11:22 evalbot_23396 Error: Undeclared variable: "$x"
11:23 agentzh ?eval my $x = do 3+2;
11:23 evalbot_23396 \5
11:23 agentzh audreyt: is "do EXPR" a valid expression?
11:23 agentzh my gut feeling is "yes", given that EXPR can also be a statement.
11:24 agentzh err... from the grammatical point of view.
11:24 audreyt yes it is.
11:24 agentzh thx!
11:26 * agentzh now feels the need to start another thread on p6l.
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11:34 svnbot6 r12246 | agentz++ | [t/syntax]
11:34 svnbot6 r12246 | agentz++ | recovered hyper_latin1.t which is *not* "meaningless".
11:38 agentzh audreyt: "do { $a } while $b" currently hangs on pugs. i was expecting a parse error or a warning or something like that.
11:39 agentzh sorry, i mean "do { $a } while $b;"
11:39 cmarcelo audreyt: make needs a prefix or something now, it's trying to installl things in /lib and /bin
11:40 audreyt oy
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11:41 cmarcelo (it was a question...)
11:41 * agentzh dodges.
11:43 audreyt agentzh: the "repeat" thing is new, we havn't implemented it
11:43 svnbot6 r12247 | audreyt++ | * fix --prefix.
11:43 agentzh audreyt: okay.
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12:21 pasteling "agentzh" at 210.22.200.67 pasted "Pugs doesn't run any of these two tests. could anyone fix the pugs src/ for me?" (26 lines, 357B) at http://sial.org/pbot/19009
12:25 audreyt agentzh: looking into it
12:25 agentzh audreyt++
12:28 audreyt agentzh: fixed
12:29 svnbot6 r12248 | audreyt++ | * infix:<is> is now gone.  Runtime infix is doesn't make any sense anyway.
12:29 agentzh yay!!!
12:29 agentzh up'ing
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12:32 audreyt mm, GHC-trunk indeed solved the exponential compilation problem as they promised
12:32 audreyt s/compilation/compilation time/
12:38 svnbot6 r12249 | cmarcelo++ | * "make clean" before "make" in Judy to force regeneration
12:38 svnbot6 r12249 | cmarcelo++ | of libJudy.a. Also re-copy file to third-party/installed
12:38 svnbot6 r12249 | cmarcelo++ | everytime, because it may be lost in cases that
12:38 svnbot6 r12249 | cmarcelo++ | third-party/judy/Judy-1.0.​3/src/obj/.libs/libJudy.a is
12:38 svnbot6 r12249 | cmarcelo++ | preserved.
12:38 agentzh oh, pugs build fails again... :(
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12:38 audreyt oh no :/
12:38 audreyt nopaste the error after r12249?
12:39 pasteling "agentzh" at 210.22.200.67 pasted "Win32 build failure" (152 lines, 6.8K) at http://sial.org/pbot/19010
12:40 agentzh even "nmake realclean" didn't help. :/
12:40 audreyt hm
12:41 agentzh i'll update to r12249 and try again.
12:41 audreyt fixed
12:41 audreyt r12250
12:41 agentzh audreyt++
12:43 agentzh trying out r12250...
12:43 svnbot6 r12250 | audreyt++ | * fix legacy build dirs
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12:46 * agentzh wonders why his machine suddenly slows down while building pugs.
12:48 agentzh still failed. i'll check out build_pugs.pl myself to make sure it's not my fault.
12:48 audreyt failed with the same thing?
12:48 audreyt I changed Makefile.PL so it will rm
12:48 audreyt third-party/fps/fps.cabal
12:48 audreyt is that file still there?
12:48 cmarcelo agentzh: ghc eats lots of mem, maybe the system is using swap to help, and it slows down a bit..
12:49 audreyt if you didn't run Makefile.PL
12:49 audreyt maybe unlink it by hand and make again?
12:49 agentzh cmarcelo: it was not swapping at all.
12:50 agentzh audreyt: no third-party/fps/fps.cabal.
12:50 audreyt agentzh: but your error log says
12:50 audreyt Setup.exe: Multiple description files found.  Please use only one of : ["fps.cab
12:50 audreyt al","pugs-fps.cabal"]
12:50 agentzh this time it complaints "Setup.exe: cannot satisfy dependency HsJudy-any".
12:50 audreyt oh. better.
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12:50 audreyt nopaste the entire log again?
12:50 agentzh okay
12:51 pasteling "agentzh" at 210.22.200.67 pasted "New outputs" (42 lines, 2K) at http://sial.org/pbot/19011
12:51 rindolf joined perl6
12:53 audreyt agentzh: weird... rm -rf third-party/installed/
12:53 audreyt and make again?
12:53 rindolf Hi audreyt
12:54 agentzh audreyt: k
12:55 Bit-Man__ joined perl6
12:55 agentzh audreyt: that doesn't help. :/
12:56 audreyt I need the earlier error messages about fps
12:56 agentzh audreyt: a sec
12:57 agentzh auderyt: during "perl Makefile.PL"?
12:57 lisppaste3 joined perl6
12:57 agentzh *audreyt
12:58 Bit-Man___ joined perl6
12:58 Limbic_Region hrm - it sounds like someone is having build problems and amazingly enough - I think my Win32 is working just fine this morning with a current rev
12:58 Bit-Man___ is now known as Bit-Man
12:58 Limbic_Region or at least it is past building pugs and is on to the post modules
12:58 * Limbic_Region does his happy dance
12:58 pasteling "agentzh" at 210.22.200.67 pasted "outputs of "nmake unoptimized"" (161 lines, 7K) at http://sial.org/pbot/19012
12:59 agentzh Limbic_Region: :)
12:59 agentzh Limbic_Region: does the latest revision work for you?
12:59 Bit-Man___ joined perl6
13:00 agentzh i want to make sure if it's specific to my machine.
13:00 larsen joined perl6
13:00 agentzh wow...a lot of people are joining #perl6...
13:01 dmsantam yeah, interest is growing :)
13:01 agentzh nice!
13:02 agentzh i wonder if the build errors are caused by my judy-on-win32 patch. but it worked for both Limbic_Region and me.
13:02 agentzh sorry, bedtime already...
13:02 agentzh my machine will be shut down with force within 30 sec...
13:02 agentzh see you tomorrow &
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13:03 kolibrie_ is now known as kolibrie
13:03 audreyt oy :/
13:03 audreyt and I thought I just fixed it
13:04 rindolf audreyt: ping.
13:04 audreyt pong
13:04 rindolf audreyt: hi.
13:04 rindolf audreyt: I've encountered a strange warning with Jifty and Jifty-DBI from trunk.
13:04 rindolf audreyt: also the tutorial used to be out-of-date. Maybe still is.
13:05 rindolf I'm in #jifty.
13:05 svnbot6 r12251 | audreyt++ | * another try...
13:07 audreyt rindolf: answered in #jifty
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13:08 gaal yay! SPJ writes that he fixed HEAD "so that both class and instance declarations are allowed in hs-boot files. But not 'deriving'!
13:09 pasteling "cmarcelo" at 200.245.119.10 pasted "strange error parsing Prelude with pugs and GHC 6.5 -- compilation is fine, pugs is generated." (12 lines, 1.4K) at http://sial.org/pbot/19013
13:09 audreyt gaal: cool!
13:10 audreyt cmarcelo: fixed
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13:11 svnbot6 r12252 | audreyt++ | * remove bogus use of runtime "is" in Prelude.
13:11 svnbot6 r12252 | audreyt++ |   Reported by: cmarcelo++
13:12 vel joined perl6
13:12 cmarcelo checking
13:26 Bit-Man joined perl6
13:26 cmarcelo audreyt++
13:26 cmarcelo ghc 6.5 compiled pugs here..
13:27 cmarcelo audreyt: JudyHS was segfaulting prelude generation on you? or was another test?
13:30 audreyt prelud e gen
13:30 lichtkind joined perl6
13:30 audreyt for gaal and me and luqui and on feather too
13:33 cmarcelo ok
13:34 svnbot6 r12253 | fglock++ | Pugs-Compiler-Rule - fixed some tests for 'return object handles stringification'
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13:40 svnbot6 r12254 | fglock++ | Pugs-Compiler-Rule - fixed a 'bool' test in Match.pm
13:44 svnbot6 r12255 | fglock++ | Pugs-Compiler-Rule - ChangeLog update
13:47 svnbot6 r12256 | polettix++ | [src/Pugs/Prim.hs]
13:47 svnbot6 r12256 | polettix++ |    Made quotemeta work like Perl 5: escape only happens for Unicode
13:47 svnbot6 r12256 | polettix++ |    characters up to 256.
13:47 svnbot6 r12256 | polettix++ | [t/builtins/strings/quotemeta.t]
13:47 svnbot6 r12256 | polettix++ |    Extended test-suite to cover all 256 Unicode characters (but only
13:47 svnbot6 r12256 | polettix++ |    in the ASCII part, the test for EBCDIC is still the old one in
13:47 svnbot6 r12256 | polettix++ |    Perl 5.9.3 quotemeta.t).
13:47 froh-doh .oO( my logs are possibly too verbose? )
13:48 wolverian you're polettix? not at all.
13:49 froh-doh wolverian: yep, I am :)
13:49 wolverian descriptive commit messages are _good_
13:50 froh-doh ok then, I hope svnbot6 won't be kicked off for flooding :)
13:54 audreyt iblech has implemented throttling :)
13:58 fglock mm - is '{}' a sub or a hash?
13:59 audreyt hash
13:59 fglock thanks
13:59 audreyt np :)
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14:07 rgs perl 5.9.4 is on its way to CPAN
14:07 svnbot6 r12257 | fglock++ | v6 - '{}' is a hash again
14:08 audreyt !
14:08 audreyt rgs++ rgs++ rgs++
14:13 fglock how is '$?SELF' different from 'self' ?
14:15 audreyt $?SELF is gone
14:15 audreyt :)
14:16 fglock ok!
14:18 gaal 1
14:26 rindolf Hi rgs
14:27 rgs hi rindolf
14:27 fglock markstos: re CGI-Application, a few problems were fixed; it currently fails in line 174 '\$body' is not implemented yet in v6.pm
14:27 rindolf rgs++ # perl 5.9.4
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14:40 svnbot6 r12258 | fglock++ | v6 - ChangeLog update
14:41 clkao fglock: is it passing tests?
14:42 rindolf Hi clkao
14:47 fglock clkao: it seems to run the same tests - I didn't run the whole suite
14:47 clkao mmm, it fails quite a bit for me
14:58 svnbot6 r12259 | fglock++ | v6 - t/00-grammar/01-pcr.t - as(Str) changed; removed a test
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15:17 TimToady audreyt: you said repeat {...} doesn't work yet, but I believe it does.
15:18 TimToady and I think \123 should be illegal now rather than 123.
15:30 kanru joined perl6
15:31 [particle] \1 is already illegal as per S05
15:46 ingy hola
15:47 cmarcelo audreyt gaal : I changed src/Pugs/AST/Internals.hs to use Judy.Hash instead of StrMap and can't find the segfault in prelude nor the t/builtins/bool/defined.t (which was segfaulting here before). tested 6.5 and 6.4.2 here and in feather too. am I missing something?
16:01 fglock joined perl6
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16:05 audreyt [particle]: that's inside patterns
16:05 audreyt not qq
16:05 audreyt TimToady: oh right, you made it work :)
16:05 audreyt TimToady: 0123 is warning but \123" is error?
16:05 audreyt cmarcelo: src/Pugs/Internals.hs surely?
16:05 audreyt (it's the interning that fails not hashes)
16:07 cmarcelo well, i was getting segfaults with hashes too.. for IHash changing Pugs/AST/Internals.hs is enough..
16:07 [particle] audreyt: true. but currently pge interprets \1 in a pattern as 1. so that'll have to be changed, too.
16:07 cmarcelo where's interning stuff?
16:07 audreyt [particle]: indeed
16:07 audreyt cmarcelo: src/Pugs/Internals.hs grep for "table"
16:07 [particle] anyway, it's been cleared up in the spec, so i'll change pge/perl6
16:08 audreyt particle++
16:08 audreyt cmarcelo: or rather, grep for NOINLINE
16:09 cmarcelo ok
16:20 svnbot6 r12260 | fglock++ | v6 - fixed ' @array.exists(20) '
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16:35 svnbot6 r12261 | audreyt++ | * Pugs.Lexer: "\123" is now a warning.
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16:38 [particle] audrey: warning, not error?
16:38 svnbot6 r12262 | fglock++ | v6 - fixed autoquoting in '=>'
16:42 audreyt [particle]: yeah.
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16:43 audreyt $ perl -we '"\9"'
16:43 audreyt Unrecognized escape \9 passed through at -e line 1.
16:43 audreyt $ perl -we '"\19"'
16:43 audreyt Illegal octal digit '9' ignored at -e line 1.
16:44 audreyt in perl5 these are warnings; not sure about making them parsefails
16:44 svnbot6 r12263 | fglock++ | v6 - fixed hash emitter
16:44 [particle] i see, thx
16:47 Psyche^ is now known as Patterner
16:48 lichtkind [particle] are you in any way related to the ParTiCLe TCL interpreter?
16:48 TimToady I think the \digits syntax has to be reserved for future metacharacter use, and not be treated as non-meta, or quotemeta breaks.
16:49 TimToady 0123 is an exception because we're hoping to make that mean decimal someday 20 years from now or so.
16:49 [particle] lichtkind: i am distantly related. i've committed a few patches there :)
16:49 TimToady but generally if you write something that can't mean anything meaningful it should fail.
16:50 audreyt mmm.
16:50 audreyt I was rather hoping that "\123" can mean "\d123" in some distant future too...
16:51 TimToady decimal characters are rather useless under Unicode
16:51 svnbot6 r12264 | audreyt++ | * Pugs.Lexer: improve the \123 warning a bit by mentioning
16:51 svnbot6 r12264 | audreyt++ |   \d123 and \o123 as disambiguators
16:52 audreyt you mean people usually use hex notation for unicode?
16:52 audreyt &#xABCD instead of &#12790
16:53 TimToady all the docs use U+ABCD rather consistently.
16:53 TimToady there are also cultures (seen it at work) where \12 is equivalent to \x12.
16:53 audreyt oy.
16:54 TimToady hardware people, mostly
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16:54 TimToady so I think we really have to suppress \123 for now completely.
16:54 [particle] what about \\0\d+ ?
16:55 TimToady dead by the same criterion.
16:55 [particle] great. consistency++
16:55 [particle] however, i'll miss \015
16:55 TimToady \o15
16:55 [particle] yep, it'll work. i'll just have to adjust my fingertips
16:56 audreyt it's in.
16:56 svnbot6 r12265 | audreyt++ | * Pugs.Lexer: "\0123" is now as dead as "\123" -- both fatal parsefails.
16:56 [particle] train the left ring finger to do the right's work
16:56 TimToady audreyt++
16:56 audreyt :)
16:56 TimToady audreyt.sleep--
16:57 TimToady make sure \0 still works though...
16:57 [particle] wonder what the lines of code to hours of missed sleep ratio is...
16:58 [particle] eeh? why not \d0 or \o0 ?
16:58 TimToady those work too.
16:58 [particle] why not *force ...
16:58 TimToady why?
16:58 TimToady 0 is the same in any radix.
16:58 audreyt so "\015" does but "\0fff" works?
16:58 audreyt s/does/dies/
16:58 TimToady yes
17:01 [particle] \0123 is octal in perl5 so how would \0fff "work"? <null> followed by 'fff'?
17:01 TimToady ohh, looks like latest smokes are 10% faster.
17:01 audreyt [particle]: exactly
17:01 [particle] ok
17:01 audreyt what about "\000" ?
17:01 TimToady illegal
17:01 [particle] why, it's the same in any radix?
17:02 TimToady \0 is just too ubiquitous to kill
17:02 [particle] my fingers need adjustment
17:02 TimToady and is very important in C culture.
17:02 [particle] DEATH TO C!
17:03 TimToady sure, but by subverting, not by brute force.
17:03 [particle] subversion++ ;)
17:03 audreyt *** Exception: Error: \00 is ambiguous: write as decimal \d00 or octal \o00 instead
17:03 ingy svn rm C
17:03 audreyt that error message itself is kinda bogus
17:03 [particle] ingy++
17:04 [particle] audreyt: agreed
17:04 ingy are there any good midi modules for Perl 6?
17:04 TimToady what if they meant \d[0]0 ?
17:04 * ingy is in a band now
17:05 TimToady citizen's?  rubber?
17:05 ingy The Strange Attractors
17:06 TimToady Band in Boston?
17:06 * [particle] whirs chaoticly
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17:07 svnbot6 r12266 | audreyt++ | * "\0" is made legal again, though "\00" "\01" etc are all still failures.
17:08 [particle] looks (from S02) that \08 is legal
17:08 TimToady that one's a close call
17:08 [particle] it's clear to me in the spec
17:09 [particle] Only C<\0> remains, and then only if the next character is not in the range C<'0'..'7'>.
17:09 TimToady that's because that's how I called the close call
17:09 TimToady yes, I wrote that this morning.
17:09 [particle] right, just making sure you mean what you wrote
17:09 TimToady I always mean what I right.  :)
17:09 [particle] and making sure audrey's implementing the right thing
17:09 [particle] write on!
17:10 TimToady she needs to be whacked upside the head occasionally, but she's a good kid.
17:10 audreyt \08 very seldomly means \d[0]8 though...
17:10 audreyt perl -we '"\08"'
17:10 audreyt Illegal octal digit '8' ignored at -e line 1.
17:10 TimToady \0 seldomly occurs in a string at all except at the end.
17:10 TimToady unless it's binary data
17:11 TimToady well, \0 doesn't introduce octal anymore, so that wouldn't work
17:11 audreyt having "\08" and "\09 be treated specially whilst 08 and 09 are not, sounds strange
17:12 TimToady sure, but the usual error will be with a normal octal number, not a "transcendental"
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17:12 audreyt k. so you think "\08" is just fine?
17:13 TimToady I think in the future it's likeliest to mean \0 + 8
17:13 audreyt and in that future, why wouldn't "\01" means \0 + 1?
17:13 TimToady only if we make it illegal for 20 years or so
17:14 TimToady a generation of C programmers has to die off first
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17:14 TimToady and maybe several other languages
17:14 audreyt so for now "\08" is a warning, but "\07" is a error?
17:14 audreyt and "\0f" is silent passthru?
17:14 [particle] we can help with that. perl6, the one true language :)
17:15 TimToady I'd just treat \08 like \0f
17:15 audreyt 'k.
17:15 [particle] \0 followed by oct => error, hex => passthrough
17:16 TimToady s/hex/other/
17:16 [particle] roger.
17:16 svnbot6 r12267 | fglock++ | v6 - fixed some hash slice cases; t/data_types/hash.t passes 5 tests more
17:16 TimToady well, passthrough means you send the backslash through too to me
17:17 TimToady so it's more like terminate-sequence-after-9
17:17 TimToady *0
17:18 audreyt k, all done. I'll go sleep :)
17:19 obra  night
17:19 TimToady nite, thanks!
17:19 audreyt thanks too :)
17:19 [particle] sure, just like \n
17:19 svnbot6 r12268 | audreyt++ | * Pugs.Lexer: "\08..." and "\09..." are treated as "\0" and then "8..." or "9...".
17:26 nothingmuch audreyt: when using PAR Weak references are not implemented in the version of perl starts happenning... is -B the wrong option or just not working?
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17:32 audreyt nothingmuch: it worksforme. does the resulting .par or .exe file have lib/auto/List/Util/Util.so ?
17:32 audreyt (or .bundle on darwin;) you can use unzip-l to check
17:33 audreyt nothingmuch: also, you want tsee on irc.perl.org for PAR questions, or [email@hidden.address] :)
17:33 nothingmuch yep, it does
17:33 nothingmuch i googled first
17:33 nothingmuch no go
17:33 audreyt try PAR trunk?
17:33 audreyt which platform?
17:33 nothingmuch osx
17:33 audreyt are you using .exe mode or .par mode?
17:33 nothingmuch i'll try it later, methinks
17:33 nothingmuch exe i think
17:34 audreyt -B is noop on .exe
17:34 nothingmuch ah
17:34 nothingmuch well, it's not urgent, i'll punt for now
17:34 audreyt PAR trunk implements .bundle pre-extraction
17:34 audreyt which may help. but I can't duplicate this error
17:34 nothingmuch i'll give it a whirl
17:34 audreyt 'k. good night :)
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17:56 svnbot6 r12269 | fglock++ | v6 - fixed '$hash.isa' - t/data_types/hash.t passes 30/55
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18:20 svnbot6 r12270 | fglock++ | perl5/ - 'cp Perl6-Value Pugs-Runtime-Value' to be Moosified for v6.pm
18:26 svnbot6 r12271 | fglock++ | Pugs-Runtime-Value - renaming files
18:29 svnbot6 r12272 | fglock++ | Pugs-Runtime-Value - renaming files
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18:41 svnbot6 r12273 | fglock++ | Pugs-Runtime-Value - renaming classes
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18:54 svnbot6 r12274 | fglock++ | Pugs-Runtime-Value - start merging with Perl6-Container
18:57 svnbot6 r12275 | fglock++ | Pugs-Runtime-Value - merged Container modules, MANIFEST
18:57 svnbot6 r12274 | fglock++ | Pugs-Runtime-Value - start merging with Perl6-Container
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19:06 svnbot6 r12276 | fglock++ | Pugs-Runtime-Value - some container moosification
19:08 svnbot6 r12277 | fglock++ | Pugs-Runtime-Value - fixed Makefile.PL
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19:32 svnbot6 r12278 | fglock++ | perl5/ set svn properties
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20:50 svnbot6 r12279 | fglock++ | Pugs-Runtime-Value - started s/use Moose/use v6-alpha/
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21:05 TreyHarris ?eval for (a => 1, b => 2, c => 3) -> $x,$y { say "$x: $y" }
21:05 evalbot_23396 is now known as evalbot_23466
21:05 evalbot_23466 OUTPUT[a 1: b 2 ] Error: Undeclared variable: "$y"
21:05 TreyHarris ?eval for (a => 1, b => 2, c => 3) -> $x;$y { say "$x: $y" }
21:05 evalbot_23466 OUTPUT[a 1: b 2 ] Error: Undeclared variable: "$y"
21:10 TreyHarris ?eval for (a => 1, b => 2, c => 3) -> $x { say "$x.key: $x.value" }
21:10 evalbot_23466 OUTPUT[a 1.key: a 1.value b 2.key: b 2.value c 3.key: c 3.value ] undef
21:10 TreyHarris ?eval for (a => 1, b => 2, c => 3) -> $x { say "$($x.key): $($x.value)" }
21:10 evalbot_23466 OUTPUT[$(a 1.key): $(a 1.value) $(b 2.key): $(b 2.value) $(c 3.key): $(c 3.value) ] undef
21:12 TreyHarris ?eval for (a => 1, b => 2, c => 3) -> $x { say "$x.key(): $x.value()" }
21:12 evalbot_23466 OUTPUT[a: 1 b: 2 c: 3 ] undef
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21:23 svnbot6 r12280 | fglock++ | Pugs-Runtime-Value - new module Pugs::Runtime::Unboxed - defines semantics for unboxed values
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21:41 svnbot6 r12281 | fglock++ | Pugs-Runtime-Value - Pugs::Runtime::Value is pure-p6; TODO: Capture, List
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22:07 fglock Pugs::Runtime::Value is under way - http://use.perl.org/~fglock/journal/30643
22:07 lambdabot Title: Journal of fglock (5723)
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22:44 broquaint Anyone know if there's any been any effort to get perl5 implemented for parrot yet?
22:49 leo broquaint: Wow.  I had no idea.  I'm glad I've read that.  What kind of audience were
22:49 leo oops sorry again: http://www.poniecode.org/
22:49 lambdabot Title: Project Ponie -
22:50 leo but that's pretty dead, as the interest seems to have declined
22:51 broquaint Dang.
22:51 broquaint Thanks anyhow.
22:51 broquaint I'm looking to write some code to convert PPI -> PIR.
22:52 leo there are a lot more ways to get perl5 running with P6 than just the one specced with the ponie plan
22:52 leo PPI would be one of that :)
22:52 broquaint But I vaguely recalled that there was a beginning of a perl5 implementation with the types and what not.
22:53 broquaint If there's nothing knocking about I guess I'll just have too bootstrap myself :)
22:53 leo yes, there's even a repo of P5 PMCs somewhere
22:53 broquaint Intriguing ...
22:55 zgh joined perl6
22:55 leo please mailto nicholas clark for details
22:57 broquaint Right oh, thanks again :)
22:59 justatheory joined perl6
23:02 lichtkind hejho leo
23:03 leo hi lichtkind
23:04 lichtkind leo im the editor guy , its first time i see you there so i had to start some handwaves
23:05 leo hi - nice to meet you here :)
23:06 rashakil joined perl6
23:07 lichtkind yeah how does parrot evolves, i read the ml but thats not the same as listen from horses mouth :) maybe im part of the team i just began to write perl tutorial, now in english too
23:07 lichtkind i mean perl6 tutorial
23:08 leo parrot is evolving steadily
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23:12 lichtkind leo some catche phrases for my perl6 talk  in frankfurt in september ?
23:12 lichtkind catchy
23:14 leo lichtkind: I've no clue - you know what the talk will include
23:15 mugwump hey leo any plans on adding hypervisor support to the parrot virtual machine?
23:15 mugwump :->
23:16 zgh left perl6
23:16 leo mugwump: after specs have settled, why not ;:-)
23:17 mugwump it might make it easier implementing kernels etc with it that way
23:17 leo but first is STM implementaion, which is more reasoable
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23:18 mugwump yes STM sounds very important
23:18 leo it's on the way - stay tuned on #parrot
23:18 zgh joined perl6
23:23 TreyHarris is there a doc on STM syntax as planned in perl 6?  all i've seen is audrey's ruminations on her blog
23:25 lichtkind leo comon you know what i mean, i really read the announcements and some more stuff, and dont whant to bother you more than needed but tell me at least where can i read more about recent progress
23:28 leo more is e.g. at http://www.parrotcode.org/misc/parrotsketch.html
23:28 lambdabot Title: Parrot Sketch - parrotcode
23:30 svnbot6 r12282 | Sage++ | Adding some missed nodetypes (apparently I missed most of op_g* for some reason).
23:30 svnbot6 r12282 | Sage++ | Unknown nodes much less prevalent in tests now.
23:30 svnbot6 r12283 | Sage++ | Adding some missed nodetypes (apparently I missed most of op_g* for some reason).
23:30 svnbot6 r12283 | Sage++ | Unknown nodes much less prevalent in tests now.
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23:45 svnbot6 r12284 | Sage++ | Documentation on the new -N option, which stops translation, just for testing. Makes it easier to find Unknown nodes from missing nodetyps as opposed to problems in the code.
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23:53 TreyHarris STM from the language perspective is more than just C<let>, right?
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23:58 pasteling "TreyHarris" at 207.171.180.101 pasted "port install problems with ghc 6.5" (37 lines, 1.6K) at http://sial.org/pbot/19030
23:58 TreyHarris if anyone can help me with my ghc problem i just pasted, i'd be grateful

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