Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2006-08-20

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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00:26 elmex joined perl6
00:26 svnbot6 r12498 | trey++ | [t/oo/syntax-but.t]
00:26 svnbot6 r12498 | trey++ | Added tests for "but False";
00:26 svnbot6 r12498 | trey++ | fixed tests to use eval correctly;
00:26 svnbot6 r12498 | trey++ | fixed a mispelling.
00:44 svnbot6 r12499 | fglock++ | * v6 - given/when/default/break/continue
00:48 cmarcelo left perl6
00:59 renormalist MacVince, TreyHarris: cperl-mode thing: A known issue with new Unicode emacs and cperl-mode 5.x. Fixed in cperl-mode 5.20, but I didn't merged that version changes into Perl6-enhanced version yet. TreyHarris: thanks.
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01:03 MacVince renormalist: I think there are still a few issues with the code TreyHarris put up.
01:03 MacVince However, there are not enough details for me to know where to look: no line numbers or anything.
01:05 renormalist The fix to the original problem should be a simple \ --> \\ conversion somewhere in a docu string.
01:06 renormalist MacVince: I will have a look at it tomorrow. Must sleep now. sorry.
01:06 MacVince np.
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01:14 svnbot6 r12500 | fglock++ | v6 - statement/expression closure traits
01:23 TreyHarris is this correct behavior, and if so can someone explain it:
01:23 TreyHarris ?eval my @a = (Bool::False|Bool::True); my @b = 0..3; say "yes" if all(@a) eq any(@b)
01:23 evalbot_12497 is now known as evalbot_12500
01:23 evalbot_12500 OUTPUT[yes ] Bool::True
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01:48 svnbot6 r12501 | fglock++ | v6 - fixed scientific notation
01:53 wolverian http://search.cpan.org/~eilara/Aspect-0.11/lib/Aspect/Library/Wormhole.pm -- scary
01:53 lambdabot Title: Aspect::Library::Wormhole - A wormhole between call frames - search.cpan.org
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02:26 TimToady ?eval my $a = (Bool::False|Bool::True); say "yes" if $a eq 1;
02:26 evalbot_12500 is now known as evalbot_12501
02:26 evalbot_12501 OUTPUT[yes ] Bool::True
02:27 TimToady ?eval my $a = (Bool::False|Bool::True); say "yes" if $a eq 0;
02:27 evalbot_12501 undef
02:27 TimToady that is...strange...
02:27 TimToady ?eval my $a = Bool::False; say "yes" if $a eq 0;
02:27 evalbot_12501 undef
02:28 TimToady ?eval my $a = Bool::False; say "yes" if $a == 0;
02:28 evalbot_12501 OUTPUT[yes ] Bool::True
02:28 TreyHarris eqv works
02:28 TreyHarris so i just switched to that
02:28 TimToady ?eval my $a = Bool::True; say "yes" if $a eq 1;
02:28 evalbot_12501 OUTPUT[yes ] Bool::True
02:28 TimToady ?eval say "yes" if Bool::True eq 1;
02:28 evalbot_12501 Error: No compatible subroutine found: "&eq"
02:29 TimToady ?eval say "yes" if Bool::True == 1;
02:29 weinig is now known as weinig|zZz
02:29 TimToady did I kill it?
02:30 TreyHarris ?eval 2+2
02:30 TimToady maybe it's pining
02:30 TreyHarris i get *** Cannot cast from VInt 1 to Handle (VHandle)
02:31 TimToady weird
02:31 TreyHarris oh, this is maddening.  i'm trying to write a test for the last S09 change, and i got a parse failure.  so i put it in eval_ok, and the eval test succeeds.
02:32 TimToady you mean "for any(@x) > 42" stuff?
02:32 TreyHarris yes
02:32 TimToady maybe eval_ok is hosed.
02:35 TreyHarris i'm getting three different behaviors depending on whether the same code's run from a file or -e (parse fails), eval (parses, but doesn't work), or run at the pugs interactive line-by-line (wrong behavior, but different behavior if i run the same line a second time)
02:35 TreyHarris still trying to figure this all out.  it's very very strange.
02:36 TimToady well, I wouldn't expect it to work yet in any event, since we've never given comparisons a list meaning before.  But presumably it's trying to return a junction even in list context and messing up somehow.
02:38 TreyHarris no, i wasn't expecting it to work, but i was expecting to be able to write a test that failed :-)
02:43 TreyHarris if i write 'ok ?(blah)' and pugs bombs out, i do *not* expect "ok eval '?(blah)'" to just magically ok.
02:48 TimToady well, I think eval may be having other troubles--I see a lot of eval failures in the current smoke tests.
02:49 pasteling "TreyHarris" at 207.171.180.101 pasted "help me make tests 1 and 3 fail!" (28 lines, 1K) at http://sial.org/pbot/19149
02:53 TimToady the insides of test one parse if I put them all as one line.
02:53 TimToady ?eval  my @x = 1..20;my $code = -> $x { $x % 2 };my @result = any(@x) ~~ $code;
02:54 TreyHarris you're right.  huh.  so how do i document this problem with a test fail?
02:57 TimToady I also don't have a problem with
02:58 TimToady ?eval my @x = 1..20; say ?(all(@x) ~~ { $_ < 21 })
02:58 TimToady oh wait, the main loop of interactive pugs is an eval.  duh.
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02:59 TreyHarris oh... so how do lexicals escape so you can use them in successive lines?
02:59 Gruber joined perl6
02:59 TimToady escape from eval?  They can't.
02:59 TimToady not unless you declare them outside
02:59 TimToady just as in P5
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03:00 TreyHarris no, i mean my $x = 32 makes $x go away before you can type the next line with perl -d.  but at pugs interactive, you can do my $x = 32 and then use $x in the next line
03:01 TimToady that's interesting.  I didn't think it would do that.
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03:01 TimToady well, anyway, even putting the commands in a file, i can't get them to parsefail.
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03:02 TreyHarris oh.  so maybe it's my build of pugs?  i'm at r12433
03:02 TimToady can you give me a file that bombs?
03:02 obra joined perl6
03:02 TreyHarris ok
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03:02 TimToady I'm at 488
03:08 TreyHarris oh, pasteling didn't announce it
03:08 TreyHarris http://sial.org/pbot/19150
03:08 lambdabot Title: Paste #19150 from Someone at 207.171.180.101
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03:10 TimToady uh, wow, I just got a screen and a half of one single error message.
03:10 TreyHarris yep
03:10 TreyHarris that's what i get
03:11 TreyHarris Cannot cast from VCode (MkCode {isMulti....
03:11 TimToady ...to Double at foo line 6
03:11 TreyHarris I get ...to Double (VNum) at foo, but yes
03:13 TreyHarris despite the references to Test.pm in that error message, you can comment out the ok and still get a bombou
03:13 TreyHarris t
03:17 TreyHarris ahh.... but if you don't use Test, it works!
03:17 TreyHarris not the ok obviously
03:18 TimToady use Test; { my @x = 1..20; my $code = (sub ($x) { $x % 2 }); my $result = any(@x) == $code; };
03:18 TimToady makes 5 screens of error
03:19 TimToady without the use Test it's only 3.5 screens
03:20 TimToady without the curlies it's only 1.5 screens.
03:21 pasteling "TreyHarris" at 207.171.180.101 pasted "works with first line commented, otherwise fails" (6 lines, 124B) at http://sial.org/pbot/19152
03:21 svnbot6 r12502 | fglock++ | v6 - fixed a statement modifier bug
03:23 TimToady looks to me like the junction logic is doing random stuff with code
03:28 TreyHarris huh, you can't 'require "/path/to/filename"' anymore?
03:33 TreyHarris TimToady: well, unless you have a better idea, I'm just going to return 0 at the end of the eval, and put a comment saying not to remove it until it works outside of the eval
03:33 TreyHarris since i can't generate an actual test failure
03:40 TimToady audreyt: when you get a change, see last paste above.
03:40 TimToady *chance
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04:03 TreyHarris TimToady: is CATCH like this: "try { CATCH { when Exception::1 { ... } when /error/ { ... } default { ... } }?  or is it "try { CATCH Exception::1 { ... } CATCH /err/ { ... } CATCH default { ... } }"?  I read S04 pretty clearly as saying the former, but only the latter appears to be tested.
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04:27 gaal moose!
04:33 PerlJam TreyHarris: It's the former.  It's a CATCH block that acts as a special kind of given (on $!)
04:34 TreyHarris meese, mice, mose
04:34 TreyHarris PerlJam: ok, I'll rewrite the tests
04:35 TreyHarris TimToady: interestingly enough, the word 'try' is not just self-documentation in this case.  if you do nothing to the code but wrap it in a block, it still fails.  but add the magic word "try", and poof, it succeeds--though it doesn't actually make it past the point where it failed before.  so i now have an avenue for a test
04:47 audreyt fixed.
04:47 gaal in any case should that not have been $code()?
04:48 gaal not that it worked with the parens
04:49 audreyt TreyHarris, TimToady: $x ~~ &c  was broken and executed as $_ ~~ &c regardless of $x
04:49 svnbot6 r12503 | audreyt++ | * Implement ($lhs ~~ &code) correctly.  Previously the
04:49 svnbot6 r12503 | audreyt++ |   value of $lhs is ignored and only $_'s value is considered.
04:49 svnbot6 r12503 | audreyt++ |   I wonder who implemented that... ;)
04:49 gaal hmm wait, $code has arity 1
04:49 gaal audreyt: 07:49 < svnbot6> r12503 | audreyt++ |   I wonder who implemented that... ;)
04:49 gaal that would be me, I think
04:50 gaal does any~~ set the topic? why *should* Trey's code work?
04:50 audreyt it would set the topic.
04:50 audreyt see the S03 table
04:50 audreyt the lhs column says $_
04:51 audreyt I love the utterance "see the S03 table"
04:51 audreyt as most tables are in S03 ;)
04:52 gaal wow, I dont' think it wasn '$_' and '$x' last time I looked...
04:52 audreyt that might be the case... :)
04:53 gaal "potentially references to container objects" # fossil?
04:53 * audreyt is doing her hair right now (citywide wifi++), so connection will be intermittent
04:53 audreyt not really fossil
04:53 audreyt it means they are lvalues
04:53 gaal for a minute there I couldn't understand how come you needed wifi to do hair
04:53 shachaf joined perl6
04:54 audreyt I need wifi to fix pugsbugs :)
04:54 gaal as in, I'll do away with heated air, I'll fry my hair with radio waves!
04:54 TreyHarris audreyt: fixed?
04:54 audreyt "I do my hair with 802.11"
04:54 TreyHarris lol
04:54 gaal or maybe, sleep on the NIC
04:54 audreyt TreyHarris: aye
04:55 audreyt "Micro-wavy hair style"
04:55 TreyHarris I just spent the past 20 minutes writing a set of tests that will fail!
04:55 audreyt commit them!
04:55 TreyHarris ok
04:56 * gaal wonders if wifi NICs get warmer when the signal is low
04:56 gaal "the signal is weak but the hair is dry"
04:56 TreyHarris how should I write an explanation?  i notice some people use =kwid blocks, is that how i should too?
04:56 gaal TreyHarris: sure
04:57 audreyt or you can use multiline #{} now
04:57 audreyt timtowtdi
04:57 gaal :}s/^# //
04:57 gaal er
04:57 gaal /^/# /
04:57 gaal /^/# /
04:58 gaal that is /^/# /
04:58 * gaal looks for running water
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05:13 TreyHarris hmmm.  everything in smartmatch.t is marked todo, with the explanation that ~~ isn't implemented yet
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05:31 svnbot6 r12504 | trey++ | [junction/chained_operators.t]
05:31 svnbot6 r12504 | trey++ | [operators/smartmatch.t]
05:31 svnbot6 r12504 | trey++ | Tests for evaluative junction
05:31 svnbot6 r12504 | trey++ | behavior described in S09, and tests
05:31 svnbot6 r12504 | trey++ | for fix made in r12503.
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05:47 TreyHarris where's nothingmuch been?  haven't seen him make a sound in a few days
05:48 agentzh TreyHarris: she is busy with her sysadmin work.
05:48 TreyHarris ah
05:48 agentzh :)
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06:22 svnbot6 r12505 | cmarcelo++ | * HsJudy: swapMaps is now part of MapM. Also, now we have a
06:22 svnbot6 r12505 | cmarcelo++ | instance of MapM for IORef (Data.Map.Map a b).
06:24 gaal wow, MapM is a confusing name :)
06:25 gaal (<=> the mapM function)
06:27 cmarcelo gaal: yes, i agree.. my first names ideas are always very confusing  =P... the idea was Collections => Map, then CollectionsM => MapM... =P
06:27 cmarcelo but people in general don't need to deal with the name MapM too much.. [e.g. there's no mention of it in Pugs code AFAIK]..
06:28 gaal cmarcelo: it's just an observation, not a complaint :)
06:28 svnbot6 r12506 | agentz++ | [t/README]
06:28 svnbot6 r12506 | agentz++ | - polished the wording.
06:28 svnbot6 r12506 | agentz++ | - updated the TODO part by encouraging the use of the `todo' function.
06:37 svnbot6 r12507 | agentz++ | [Test/lib/Test.pm]
06:37 svnbot6 r12507 | agentz++ | - polished the Kwid doc.
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07:18 nothingmuch TreyHarris: i'm alive
07:18 nothingmuch agentzh: i'm not a she ;-)
07:18 agentzh nothingmuch: sorry. :)
07:18 nothingmuch the sysadmin stuff was actually trivial, once it was done
07:19 nothingmuch the PCI card popped out
07:19 nothingmuch so by the time i told you guys it was over with
07:19 nothingmuch anymoose, /me hunts food
07:19 TreyHarris hunting moose?
07:20 * nothingmuch is going to start hunting in the freezer
07:20 nothingmuch if i don't see anything there, maybe i'll find some moose eventually
07:30 gaal nothingmuch: I hope you didn't push it back in while the system was running
07:32 lumi_ Good morning, folk
07:32 lumi_ gaal: Do you have an opinion on what I asked yesterday?
07:35 svnbot6 r12508 | masak++ | paper was first mentioned 2006-08-06 (or earlier), not 2006-08-09
07:37 cmarcelo masak: are you the one that added monad links into READTHEM? did you see http://sigfpe.blogspot.com/2006/08/you-could-have-invented-monads-and.html ?
07:37 lambdabot Title: A Neighborhood of Infinity: You Could Have Invented Monads! (And Maybe You Alrea ...
07:37 * cmarcelo likes sigfpe blog
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07:44 gaal lumi_: sorry no, at $work now so low on cycles too
07:45 gaal but why not just moose it and see if it simplifies things?
07:45 lumi_ k, I'll try it
07:45 traecer just m00se it
07:55 agentzh what is the advantage and disadvantage of using Pod::Simple::HTML instead of Pod::Html?
07:56 agentzh util/catalog_tests.pl uses the former and i don't know why. :)
08:07 integral joined perl6
08:11 nothingmuch gaal: no, i didn't
08:11 nothingmuch gaal: i shut it down to open it
08:13 gaal nothingmuch: ok. it's an expensive and not very effective way to defrost frozen food
08:13 nothingmuch =)
08:13 * nothingmuch didn't know
08:13 nothingmuch the scary part was that it was half in there
08:14 nothingmuch and i think it was still picked up by lspci -v
08:14 gaal ugh
08:14 nothingmuch yes, very confusing =(
08:14 gaal remember the old cascade virus? /me wonders if a flaky card is like that
08:14 nothingmuch no, i don't
08:15 * nothingmuch is a mac head, didn't have many viruses
08:15 nothingmuch what did it do?
08:15 gaal gotta go back to work
08:15 nothingmuch ah... see you then
08:15 gaal google for an emulator :)
08:15 nothingmuch btw, my first bookmooch book arrived
08:15 nothingmuch awesometown!
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08:41 xerox G'day.
08:43 cmarcelo xerox: hi
08:44 xerox About yesterday's prime code...
08:45 TreyHarris audreyt: so r12503 only fixed the spewing of the long error... it still causes the closure executing to fail immediately.  so my tests for parsing (at the bottom of t/operators/smartmatch.t) still fail
08:45 DaGo joined perl6
08:45 xerox import Text.ParserCombinators.ReadP; composite = do { x <- liftM2 (:) (char '1') (many (char '1')); y <- many1 (string x); z <- look; guard (null z); return (x,y) }; prime = null . readP_to_S composite . flip repeat '1'
08:53 cmarcelo xerox: could you help me here? readP_to_S "runs" the composite parser, and if it doesn't match anything, will return []... right?
08:54 xerox "...and if "^(11+)\1+$" doesn't match, will return []."  :)
08:58 cmarcelo cool! (I was in doubt if it returned [] or [(?, original_string)]). but perl one is still prettier =)
08:59 xerox roar.
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08:59 cmarcelo xerox: the first ocurrence of many shouldn't be many1 ?
09:00 xerox cmarcelo: that's equivalent, right.
09:00 xerox No
09:01 xerox At least *two* ones.
09:02 cmarcelo but (char '1') (many (char '1')), which I read as /11*/, could parse just "1", right?
09:02 xerox Ooops.
09:02 xerox I thought you meant x <- many1 (char '1').
09:03 xerox Yes, that's a typo.
09:06 cmarcelo and... manyN 0 = many; manyN n p = liftM2 (:) p (manyN (n-1) p)... so you can use x <- manyN 2 (char '1')... makes sense?
09:07 xerox Does it work?
09:07 TreyHarris agentzh: are you here?
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09:15 cmarcelo xerox: is "repeat" what you really meant in the "prime" definition? repeat :: a -> [a], so that flip sounds a little strange.
09:16 xerox replicate
09:16 xerox Sorry for the typos
09:16 cmarcelo np =)...
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09:23 cmarcelo xerox: everything works now. manyN too.. \o/
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09:43 svnbot6 r12509 | trey++ | TASK done:
09:43 svnbot6 r12509 | trey++ | spellchecking Overview PODs.
09:45 TreyHarris whoops.  what to do for a segfault?  write a test or no?
09:55 gaal TreyHarris: sure
09:56 gaal TreyHarris: isolate it in one file, put it in t/pugsbugs
09:57 Aankh|Clone joined perl6
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10:00 TreyHarris gaal: i don't see pugsbugs.  create the directory?
10:00 bernhard joined perl6
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10:08 gaal urp? it used to be there
10:09 TreyHarris svn log t/pugsbugs doesn't give me anything
10:09 * gaal confers with svk log
10:10 gaal ah, r11323 renamed it to t/bugs
10:11 TreyHarris i don't have that either...
10:23 gaal r11334 renamed it to t/xx-uncategorized...
10:24 TreyHarris oh?  one of the TASKS says to move xx-uncategorized into the approriate directory by synopsis
10:25 gaal then r11334 must be bogus :) please make sure it hasn't accrued non-buggy tests, and if not, rename it back to something with 'bugs' in it :)
10:25 * gaal thinks pugsbugs was in fact a good name
10:26 TreyHarris oh, well.  it may not be a generic issue anyway, i just noticed that my uninstalled pugs is using a Prelude from my installed pugs.  i guess my idea of installing only versions that seemed pretty stable and then build often in the source dir for testing was not a worthy idea...
10:26 gaal since we can't expect other implementations to copy our bugs
10:26 gaal TreyHarris: that's simply a search path issue
10:26 TreyHarris oh?  what should i change?
10:27 gaal if you want local prelude, export PERL6LIB=blib6/lib
10:27 gaal or put a `pwd` there to protect yourself when cd'ing around
10:27 gaal (I almost never use cd, so I don't bother)
10:27 TreyHarris no, that didn't do it
10:28 gaal huh? what does pugs -V say?
10:28 TreyHarris it's still saying Consider removing /Library/Perl6/Prelude.pm.yml and make it again
10:29 TreyHarris oh, i typoed :-)
10:30 gaal whew
10:30 * gaal wanders off to $job again...
10:32 xerox $job eh...
10:39 cmarcelo audreyt: ping?
10:49 svnbot6 r12510 | trey++ | [STATUS]
10:49 svnbot6 r12510 | trey++ | [t/builtins/control_flow/try.t]
10:49 svnbot6 r12510 | trey++ | [t/xx-uncategorized/hashes-segfault.t]
10:49 svnbot6 r12510 | trey++ | Updated status of tests, changed try.t to
10:49 svnbot6 r12510 | trey++ | use current CATCH syntax, and added a test
10:49 svnbot6 r12510 | trey++ | for a bug that's causing Pugs to segfault
10:49 svnbot6 r12510 | trey++ | whenever hashes are used in certain
10:49 svnbot6 r12510 | trey++ | contexts.
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11:12 masak cmarcelo: yes, I added a few links yesterday. and good suggestion about "You Could Have Invented Monads", I'll add that too
11:13 cmarcelo audreyt: http://sial.org/pbot/19159 => two main blog posts I'm planning on Judy + Pugs. could you take a little look? at least to check if I didn't said anything insane or sureal?
11:14 lambdabot Title: Paste #19159 from "cmarcelo" at 200.232.236.222
11:15 cmarcelo masak: great.. =)
11:16 audreyt looking now
11:16 svnbot6 r12511 | masak++ | added reference suggested by cmarcelo++
11:17 audreyt s/as I already described/as I'll describe below/
11:19 audreyt all looks very sane
11:19 cmarcelo (I pasted in reverse order)
11:20 audreyt actually the interning was not heavily usef until r12317
11:20 audreyt which resulted in much more drastic speedup
11:20 audreyt so you may bench this moment's pugs and compare it against that two revs also
11:21 cmarcelo ok.. but: this moment's = r12317 or trunk?
11:21 audreyt (in r12215 only Type (type tags)were interned, r12317 and afterwards, Var (variable identifiers) was also interned)
11:21 audreyt trunk
11:21 audreyt what I've been doing was throwing more memo and intern at the problem
11:21 audreyt which all uses Judy one way or another
11:23 audreyt in one place (line 126, Parser.Operator) I switched back to HashTable
11:24 audreyt which was slower (forgot by how much) but didn't occasionally segfault with "Judy.IntMap: interrupted" / "Judy.Hash: interrupted"
11:24 audreyt havn't had time to investigate that yet.
11:25 audreyt but anywhere the ID type is used, a Judy-backed interning is used
11:25 cmarcelo audreyt: hmmm.. that amazing "100% speedup on mandelbrot" was counting with these other interning things? because here it wasn't that big the difference (considering this two old revs)..
11:25 audreyt it was counting other interning things.
11:25 audreyt mostly Var/ID interning
11:25 audreyt which made variable lookup much, much faster
11:26 ludan joined perl6
11:26 audreyt (from Map String PadEntry to Map ID PadEntry)
11:27 evalbot_12487 joined perl6
11:27 cmarcelo audreyt: I added Data.Map instance in collectionM, if the functions you use for HashTable are the default ones, I can instantiate HashTable too, so it will become easy to swap them and test...
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11:28 audreyt oh! that's a very good thought
11:28 audreyt please go ahead and do that
11:28 audreyt though I'm not sure whi Data.Map is collcetionM
11:28 audreyt sinceyou cannot destructively update it, no?
11:28 audreyt or did you mean IORef (Map)?
11:28 cmarcelo audreyt: yes, IORef (Map)...
11:28 audreyt gotcha.
11:29 cmarcelo is it bad manners to use IORef in Pugs code (since all over TVar is used)? I tested here and it seems to work.
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11:32 audreyt well, when use use IORef, atomically{} cease to work
11:32 audreyt since our atomically{} support (that's STM) depends on TVars
11:33 audreyt that's an open design problem actually, since we assume a share-everything model
11:33 audreyt in multithreading
11:33 audreyt instead of forcing people to say
11:33 audreyt my %hash is shared;
11:33 audreyt previously we implement Hash as space-inefficient TVar (Map)
11:34 audreyt which means all hash can be transactional (essentially blocking random access)
11:34 audreyt but when not running in multithreaded context, we'd like to use the faster Judy.Hash
11:34 audreyt which cannot provide rollback
11:35 audreyt so my idea is to switch only to STM-friendly storage (perhaps the THash from edwardk) only when user wants them
11:35 audreyt and otherwise default to share-nothing cloning
11:35 audreyt ala perl5
11:35 audreyt which I think TimToady had said he'd be more comfortable with
11:35 audreyt but that's still an open design question.
11:36 audreyt </rant>
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11:38 cmarcelo i see.. well, I can try instantiating TVar (Map) too, but would not work out-of-the-box since CM references in pugs are all supposing that it'll be an IO-action.
11:38 svnbot6 r12512 | kudra++ | Added threads from Saturday
11:38 audreyt I thought MapM is c->kam
11:38 audreyt so m = STM and that's all it takes, no?
11:38 audreyt (yes it'd require liftSTM)
11:40 cmarcelo yep, CM part is easy I think. but in pugs' code all references to CollectionsM functions are preceded by liftIO.
11:43 audreyt maybe we can replace both with just "cast"...
11:43 svnbot6 r12513 | audreyt++ | * This is now an error, in compliance with the revised S04 ruling:
11:43 svnbot6 r12513 | audreyt++ |     my $x; { $x = 1; my $x = 2 }
11:43 svnbot6 r12513 | audreyt++ |   "If you've referred to C<$x> prior to the first declaration, and the
11:43 svnbot6 r12513 | audreyt++ |    compiler tentatively bound it to C<$OUTER::x>, then it's an error
11:43 svnbot6 r12513 | audreyt++ |    to declare it, and the compiler is required to complain at that point."
11:43 svnbot6 r12513 | audreyt++ |   The error message it gives is currently:
11:43 svnbot6 r12513 | audreyt++ |     unexpected redeclaration of "$x" conflicts with earlier OUTER references in the same scope
11:43 svnbot6 r12513 | audreyt++ |   which is kinda wordy -- improvements welcome.
11:44 audreyt but nvm... where would you like to CM? envGlobal?
11:47 cmarcelo actually the idea was keeping the possibility of safely swap Data.Map / Judy / whatever without breaking, so it's easy to pick the best one for each scenario..
11:47 * cmarcelo will take a look on THash also..
11:48 cmarcelo s/also/too/ =P
11:48 audreyt oh... then I'm afraid you need polymorphic lift
11:48 audreyt which can be defined as "cast" I guess
11:48 audreyt see src/Pugs/AST/SIO.hs for casting between monads
11:48 audreyt but I wouldn't suggest doing that right now...
11:49 audreyt I think it's a better idea to implement them as Pugs.Val.Mut instances
11:49 audreyt so that we expose each at surface level for a while
11:49 audreyt my %h is Hash::Transactional
11:49 audreyt my %h is Hash::Judy
11:49 audreyt so we can write benchmarks in perl6
11:49 audreyt to compare them directly without recompilation
11:52 cmarcelo oh. cool =).. well, will only do the  MapM HashTable thing then..
11:52 gaal 'declaration of "$x" conflicts with earlier OUTER reference in same scope'
11:52 audreyt please commit ahead :)
11:55 svnbot6 r12514 | kudra++ | spelling corrections
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12:02 gaal I would but Text.ParserCombinators.Parsec.Prim.unexpected gives me the creeps
12:03 audreyt "unepxected declaration"  is fine
12:03 svnbot6 r12515 | kudra++ | Spell-checked
12:04 audreyt so just (unexpected "declaration...")
12:04 gaal tell that to the guy who wants a Hebrew translation of the error message
12:04 audreyt well that can be done at the reporting layer
12:04 gaal no it can't :)
12:04 audreyt Left err -> show (loc err))
12:05 audreyt of course it can :)
12:05 audreyt get errorMessages
12:05 audreyt and case into each, loc them
12:06 gaal It *could have* if there were markers in the error string
12:06 gaal or if loc does NLP :)
12:06 audreyt data Message        = SysUnExpect !String   --library generated unexpect             | UnExpect    !String   --unexpected something      | Expect      !String   --expecting something | Message     !String   --raw message
12:06 audreyt you don't have to use the default Show
12:06 audreyt as you have access to constructors
12:07 audreyt see Error.hs in parsec
12:07 audreyt actually just use showErrorMessages
12:07 audreyt and supply different prefix markers
12:07 audreyt that will do
12:08 audreyt emeijer and daan is quite big on this hook-providing thing...
12:08 gaal but not all languages need the error class in prefix location
12:08 gaal you need to closurize the renderer
12:08 audreyt so showErrorMessages them with unique markers
12:08 audreyt yes.
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12:09 gaal I'm not seeing where the hook is.
12:10 audreyt showErrorMessages is it.
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12:11 svnbot6 r12516 | kudra++ | change title of august summary
12:13 gaal I don't see how this is done by looking at the code, but never mind for now...
12:16 audreyt Left err -> localize (showErrorMessages "!!OR!!" "!!UNKNOWN!!" "!!EXP!!" "!!UNEXP!!" "!!EOF!!" $ errorMessages err)
12:16 audreyt ...and parse back the unique markers to get the structure
12:17 audreyt (yes, that is wrong, cheating, adhoc, etc. but Locale::Maketext::Fuzzy did exactly that))
12:18 audreyt Locale::Maketext::Fuzzy to Locale::Maketext is what Template::Extract is to Template :)
12:18 gaal *groan*
12:18 * gaal needs to wander away again
12:19 audreyt have fun... bbiab too
12:25 cmarcelo pugs w/ 6.4.2 here is way slower than pugs w/ 6.5 here...
12:28 audreyt list numbers for both then?
12:28 audreyt (not surprising as ByteString is heavily tuned as part of 6.5)
12:31 cmarcelo trunk+6.4.2 is worst than judy 0-day rev =P
12:31 cmarcelo (also with 6.4.2)
12:34 audreyt wow...
12:34 audreyt on linux?
12:34 audreyt "make profiled" and
12:34 audreyt ./pugs-prof ... +RTS -p
12:35 audreyt and nopaste the profiling chart in pugs-pugs.prof ?
12:35 audreyt (just the first section)
12:36 cmarcelo ok.. i'm on linux amd64...
12:36 cmarcelo ops: make prof => Could not find module `Data.ByteString.Char8':
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12:37 audreyt try nuke third-party and svk revert -R it
12:39 audreyt ?eval my $x; { $x = 1; my $x = 3 }
12:39 evalbot_12514 Error:  unexpected redeclaration of "$x" conflicts with earlier OUTER references in the same scope expecting comment, "?", "!" or trait
12:39 audreyt good.
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12:50 cmarcelo (compiling...)
12:54 svnbot6 r12517 | agentz++ | [util/smartlinks.pl]
12:54 svnbot6 r12517 | agentz++ | - the HTML emitter now works! you can generate HTML files
12:54 svnbot6 r12517 | agentz++ |   for all the synopses with embedded test snippets
12:54 svnbot6 r12517 | agentz++ |   using the following command:
12:54 svnbot6 r12517 | agentz++ |     util/smartlinks.pl t/*/*.t t/*/*/*.t
12:54 svnbot6 r12517 | agentz++ |   yay!
12:54 svnbot6 r12518 | cmarcelo++ | * HsJudy: Add instance of HashTable for MapM.
12:58 agentzh joined perl6
12:59 agentzh audreyt, gaal, nothingmuch et al: please comment on the HTML files (with test snippets) generated by util/smartlinks.pl. :)
12:59 agentzh though the CSS and HTML templates still need treatment, but the idea is already quite obvious at this moment. ;-)
13:00 nothingmuch_ agentzh: ETOOBUSY right now to run it myself and all
13:00 nothingmuch_ do you have sample html i could take a quick look at?
13:00 agentzh yes, i have.
13:00 nothingmuch_ is now known as nothingmuch
13:00 agentzh email?
13:00 nothingmuch [email@hidden.address]
13:00 nothingmuch [email@hidden.address]
13:00 agentzh okay
13:01 agentzh a sec...
13:01 svnbot6 r12519 | audreyt++ | * Fix build for inconsistent .hi-boot files in GHC 6.4.
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13:03 agentzh sent
13:04 * nothingmuch bounces
13:04 agentzh bounced?
13:05 agentzh nothingmuch: only S02.html is attached. :)
13:05 nothingmuch no
13:05 * nothingmuch bounces out of joy
13:05 nothingmuch =)
13:05 agentzh search for "Show t/" in your browser please.
13:06 agentzh i'll change the color of the code snippets so as to make them distinguished from the context.
13:06 nothingmuch that's awesome
13:06 nothingmuch agentzh++
13:06 nothingmuch agentzh++
13:06 nothingmuch agentzh++
13:06 agentzh sorry, end of day for me. my computer will be shut down in 17 sec...see you tomorrow...
13:06 agentzh nothingmuch: :)
13:06 agentzh bye &
13:06 audreyt nothingmuch: put the sample html somewhere
13:06 audreyt :)
13:06 audreyt I wanna look!
13:06 audreyt agentzh: take care :)
13:07 nothingmuch http://nothingmuch.woobling.org/S02.html
13:07 lambdabot Title: TITLE
13:07 audreyt ...beautiful.
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13:27 cmarcelo audreyt: post the entire .prof or only the first page summary ?
13:27 cmarcelo s/post/paste/
13:27 audreyt first page first
13:29 audreyt but I may need to afk for a bit
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13:29 pasteling "cmarcelo" at 200.232.236.222 pasted "prof summary for pugs execution of examples/mandel.pl" (38 lines, 2.2K) at http://sial.org/pbot/19160
13:30 cmarcelo np.. it took 9m of user time (a little bit more of wallclock, because i'm multiprocessing...)
13:32 audreyt ok. hm. try changing "30" to "3" in mandel.pl
13:32 audreyt and see if 6.4 and 6.5 still differ
13:37 audreyt (bbiab)
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13:38 cmarcelo audreyt: (ok).... still big difference 6s vs. 30s...
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14:04 cmarcelo audreyt: i have to go sleep a bit, but i always read irc.pugscode.org... will be back later &
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14:07 svnbot6 r12520 | fglock++ | * v6 - cleanup extra parenthesis and braces in emitted code
14:07 svnbot6 r12520 | fglock++ | - fixed 'num' Term
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14:37 gaal agentzh: are you planning on colorizing tests with results?
14:37 svnbot6 r12521 | gaal++ | [util/smartlink.pl]
14:37 svnbot6 r12521 | gaal++ | - when a test comes just before a table, it's hard to tell them
14:37 svnbot6 r12521 | gaal++ |   apart. Put a border around the test code. This should of
14:37 svnbot6 r12521 | gaal++ |   course move over to a stylesheet eventually.
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15:08 svnbot6 r12522 | audreyt++ | * op2Numeric: slightly clean up syntax; no functional changes.
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16:14 svnbot6 r12523 | audreyt++ | * Shave 60% off parsetime... Simply by making decodeUTF8
16:14 svnbot6 r12523 | audreyt++ |   and encodeUTF8 strict using `seq`.
16:14 svnbot6 r12523 | audreyt++ |   It's the first time I've used space profiling ("+RTS -hc"
16:14 svnbot6 r12523 | audreyt++ |   on "make prof"), and wow was it effective.
16:15 audreyt (*60% only on large modules. on very small ones, it's more like 25%.D[D[D[D[D[D)
16:15 audreyt (but still...)
16:19 gaal w00t
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16:20 gaal is there perhaps a faster *codeUTF8 implementation available?
16:20 gaal do it in ffi entirely?
16:21 gaal uh why is it even String->String?
16:22 audreyt because Parsec takes String
16:22 xerox gaal: ask dcoutts, I think he knows the right ways to do it
16:22 audreyt (the heap overflow happens at the entrance to Parsec, namely withProgramRun)
16:23 audreyt it's not in the usual place such as "cast".
16:23 audreyt so until we switch to linspire or sjanssen's bytestring parsec
16:23 audreyt --both of which doesn't have an url yet--
16:23 gaal audreyt: is it an encoding of the entire program string or of parts?
16:23 audreyt entire program
16:23 gaal linspire have a bytestring parsec!?
16:23 gaal wow
16:24 audreyt spj et all's history-v2 paper quotes them saying their bytestring parser has speed indistuiguishable from cat.
16:24 audreyt and meory use is 10% compared to parsec
16:24 audreyt which all sounds very reasonable
16:24 gaal well, then it's probably moose to Buf.unpack . encode . Buf.pack
16:24 audreyt it's moose. the current treatment is probably best we can do
16:25 xerox audreyt: I pinged stepcut about it but he didn't answer or something, yarrr.
16:25 audreyt thanks, xerox :)
16:25 gaal I meant the happy moose :)
16:25 audreyt ah :)
16:25 gaal what's withProgramRun?
16:25 gaal i gotta go
16:26 gaal sorry
16:26 xerox ~~
16:26 audreyt er. doParseWith, actually
16:26 audreyt the thing that calls decode in Pugs.hs
16:26 audreyt see ya
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18:18 nothingmuch seen markstos
18:18 nothingmuch jabbor: seen markstos
18:18 nothingmuch aaaah?
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19:12 svnbot6 r12524 | audreyt++ | * Another 25% combined win, this time thanks to retainer set
19:12 svnbot6 r12524 | audreyt++ |   profiling (+RTS -hr) to save heap space.
19:12 svnbot6 r12524 | audreyt++ | * Loading pads from YAML prelude now saves an unpack/pack roundtrip.
19:12 svnbot6 r12524 | audreyt++ | * The heavily used "string" matcher no longer cause memory leaks.
19:12 svnbot6 r12524 | audreyt++ |   (This was #1 reason why parsing slows down semi-exponentially.)
19:12 svnbot6 r12524 | audreyt++ | * Lazy data constructors (Maybe, (:)) in the tight Parser.Operator
19:12 svnbot6 r12524 | audreyt++ |   loop are made strict to reduce leaks when there are a large number
19:12 svnbot6 r12524 | audreyt++ |   of user-defined functions that could influence parsing.
19:36 gaal audreyt: who provides the 'encode' and 'decode' functions used by encodeUTF8?
19:37 audreyt UTF8.lhs
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19:37 gaal oh. so much for grep ^encode :-)
19:38 wolverian ack
19:38 audreyt I should sleep, but I'm having too much fun with hp2ps :)
19:38 wolverian . o (Does ack parse lhs files?)
19:38 audreyt prolly not
19:38 wolverian yeah.
19:39 gaal wolverian: i hacked mine so it at least searches them... but does it purport to parse code?
19:39 audreyt gaal: send Andy the hack?
19:39 wolverian gaal, no, I don't think so, but it could!
19:40 gaal audreyt: surely encode would be faster if it were inside bytestring and operated on strings not chars?
19:41 gaal ie not via encodeOne?
19:41 gaal is the Elbereth poem Pugs-contributed?
19:42 gaal does seq seep down and force encodeOne to be strict too?
19:42 audreyt surely is.
19:42 audreyt seq on length forces the entire list
19:43 audreyt encode would be faster if it's in bytestring, but if the consumer in String, pack+unpack overhead may well be larger.
19:43 audreyt the profiling is showing decodeUTF8 + encodeUTf8 is currently <1% of time
19:43 audreyt and 3% of space
19:43 gaal isn't there a cheaper way to construct a bytestring for this purpose?
19:44 audreyt so please not be worrying about them :)
19:44 * TreyHarris blinks
19:44 gaal okay :)
19:44 gaal my hovercraft is full of strings
19:44 audreyt :D
19:45 cmarcelo hello folks
19:45 TreyHarris i find myself doing "svn stat -u | perl -ne 'print unless /^\?/'" a lot.  is there a faster way, some flag I haven't noticed or something?
19:45 cmarcelo audreyt: any suggestion on that strange 6.4.2 slowdown here?
19:45 leo TreyHarris: svn st -q
19:46 gaal TreyHarris: apart from |grep -v ^\? ...
19:46 gaal add svn:ignore properties to things that should obviously be ignored
19:46 TreyHarris gaal: perl's faster than grep :-)
19:46 audreyt cmarcelo: not sure... I'm hoping that my last few patches would help 6.4.2 as well
19:46 TreyHarris leo: that prints nothing at all :-)
19:46 gaal actually, prolly not.
19:47 TreyHarris ah but -uq.... there's the ticket
19:48 TreyHarris gaal: on file sizes of any significance, it is.  at least on OS X.
19:48 cmarcelo audreyt: ok, i'll try it. was there any anomaly in that prof summary I paste or the proportions were sane?
19:48 audreyt that was sane
19:52 gaal audreyt: done (patch to Andy)
19:52 audreyt gaal++
19:52 gaal hah, 2 lines
19:52 audreyt it's curious to note that spj implemented the .hs-boot rationalization due to you
19:52 audreyt and the nfound out GHC itself ws using .hs-boot inconsistently with .hs
19:52 gaal something deserving of a ++ would be to refactor the fileliest out to a config file :)
19:53 gaal I'm beginning to think that ".hs-boot rationalization" should be "cat *hs" :-(
19:54 audreyt oy. 6.5 not working for you yet? :)
19:54 gaal no -- bindist wants readline 4, debian doesn't carry it
19:54 gaal and I don't feel like installing my one one
19:54 audreyt you can get that by hand surely
19:54 gaal though come to think of it
19:54 audreyt it's trivial
19:54 gaal that's much easier than getting a ghc by hadn :)
19:55 audreyt excellent reasoning sir
19:55 * xerox is compiling ghc
19:55 xerox ...for the first time since I learned Haskell, hehe.
19:55 * gaal seeks a readline4.tgz
19:57 svnbot6 r12525 | audreyt++ | * some more `seq` to get a pretty linear space on the heap graph.
19:58 gaal audreyt: how bad was the nonlinearity in concrete nubmers? eg. on a ~100k source file
20:01 xerox Dum de dum
20:02 xerox audreyt: does it take long to build GHC on your macbook?
20:02 audreyt xerox: ~3hr I think
20:02 xerox Do you do make -j3 ?
20:02 audreyt gaal: "string"'s leak only occurs when it matches but not immediately demanded, so it varies a lot
20:02 audreyt no
20:04 audreyt gaal: unlike the "decodeUTF8" leak, which basically keeps a thunk alive for each chacracter of the input source
20:04 gaal ouch!
20:04 audreyt parsec is great in that it can parse infinite streams
20:05 audreyt sometimes it's not so great when you know you are dealing with finite source files that can fit in memory :)
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20:07 gaal yay, the familiar ol' [n of n] 6.5 message looms again!
20:08 audreyt ooh
20:08 gaal oh but HsJudy is broke
20:08 pasteling "gaal" at 192.115.25.249 pasted "judy breakage on 6.5" (34 lines, 1.5K) at http://sial.org/pbot/19169
20:10 audreyt     warning: "__GLASGOW_HASKELL__" redefined
20:10 audreyt Private.hsc in judy has a version check
20:10 audreyt check the headers a bit? it works here
20:11 gaal yes looking
20:13 gaal what's Private_hsc.h genned from? it indeed has a #define __GLASGOW_HASKELL__ 604
20:13 gaal maybe this is stale, let me clean things up
20:16 xerox ghc doesn't have smoke test eh... :)
20:16 gaal pugs' make clean/realclean should run clean in third-party/*
20:16 xerox What does pugs use for it?
20:16 audreyt ghc surely has
20:17 gaal xerox: for smoke tests? lots of stuff
20:17 xerox Oh, it has?
20:17 audreyt ghc/testsuite/
20:17 xerox Didn't know, nice. I'll try it when it finishes compiling.
20:18 * gaal wonders where QuickCheck/LectroTest might come in handy in Pugs' t/
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20:20 gaal xerox: if you're interested in Pugs testing, see http://perlcabal.org/~gaal/pugstest/
20:20 lambdabot Title:
20:20 gaal http://perlcabal.org/~gaal/pugstest/start.html even
20:20 lambdabot Title:
20:20 xerox Will do, now the system is too slow for anything, though :)
20:20 gaal (hmm why no title?)
20:21 xerox lambdabot is having a bad time
20:21 xerox > 2+2
20:21 lambdabot /home/pls/lib/ghc-6.4.2/package.conf: openFile: hardware fault (Input/output...
20:21 xerox We're waiting for dons to wake up and check :(
20:22 gaal no there really is no title on that page. weird.
20:22 xerox Ah.
20:22 gaal ok, running 'make clean' in HsJudy/ helped.
20:25 gaal any idea how 6.5 compares with 6.4.2 in compilation speed?
20:26 gaal I guess we'll know in 30-odd minutes when this build finishes :)
20:30 gaal i should probably have cleared ccache before doing this exercise though...
20:30 svnbot6 r12526 | audreyt++ | * Restore support for utf8 identifiers in programs.
20:31 audreyt ?eval 536 / 670 * 100
20:31 evalbot_12523 is now known as evalbot_12525
20:31 evalbot_12525 80/1
20:31 gaal dRat.
20:31 audreyt so smoke apparently thinks there's a 20% win today, everything considered
20:32 audreyt on my computer here, that is
20:32 gaal whee!
20:32 audreyt TimToady's numbers (with GHC 6.4) seems to agree with mine linearly pretty much
20:32 audreyt whee indeed :)
20:32 audreyt s/seems to agree/seemed to have been agreeing/
20:32 audreyt zzz &
20:33 gaal could knight ode tree
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20:44 TreyHarris how can i diagnose what's going wrong when i get "user error (incompatible version number for compilation unit)" out of prove6
20:44 gaal you need to rm a .yml file
20:45 gaal having that error message include the offending filename is proably a good idea :)
20:45 gaal for now, strace
20:46 gaal or fix the message :)
20:48 TreyHarris hm, 'user error.*incompatible' doesn't appear in the sources.  any hint?
20:48 weinig is now known as weinig|bbl
20:48 gaal src/Pugs/Prim/Eval.hs:128
20:49 gaal simply change to
20:49 gaal err $ "incompatible blah: " ++ fileName'
20:51 TreyHarris thanks
20:51 gaal TreyHarris++
20:53 gaal so, 6.5 is slower to compile Pugs from realclean than 6.4.2 by about 15% :(
20:53 svnbot6 r12527 | fglock++ | * v6 - fixed subroutine declarator
20:53 svnbot6 r12527 | fglock++ | - fixed class method calls on 'self'
20:53 gaal but that may have been related to ccache misses
20:54 gaal let's see how they compare running part of t/
21:00 gaal wow, on the other hand 6.5 produces a *much faster* pugs!
21:00 xerox Yarrr
21:00 xerox It took 2hours
21:00 xerox ...fast? :D
21:01 gaal t/builtins takes 26 cpu seconds on 6.5, 42 on 6.4.2
21:03 TreyHarris gaal: woot
21:03 gaal what platforms is 6.5 hard to get running on? on debian it's kinda klunky
21:04 gaal but I really feel like dropping 6.4...
21:04 xerox Somebody should do this kind of work with GHC
21:05 xerox A community to make it FAST :)
21:05 gaal offer a phd as bounty?
21:08 xerox ?fptools System.IO
21:08 lambdabot http://darcs.haskell.org/packages/base/System/IO.hs
21:08 xerox haha
21:09 gaal ?
21:09 xerox No the System.IO thing was unrelated
21:10 xerox to the discussion here
21:10 gaal k
21:15 TreyHarris Trey
21:15 TreyHarris lol
21:15 TreyHarris macro misfired
21:16 * gaal pines for the fr0rds and ghc 6.6
21:16 gaal and also, goes to bed... zzZ &
21:17 TreyHarris gaal: it must be coming from elsewhere, i'm not even getting the colon i put after "incompatible version".  but i can't find any text file that contains it.  gah, i guess i'm going to have to do make clean.
21:17 TreyHarris bleh.  3 hours to find out what yml i need to delete
21:17 TreyHarris of course, make clean will mean that i'll never know... :-/
21:18 TreyHarris i wish os x has strace.
21:18 gaal it does have something
21:18 gaal ktrace maybe?
21:19 gaal it works in the aixish model of start the service, do something, stop the service
21:19 gaal it also has fam I think or some other thingie that can monitor file access
21:19 gaal ask nothingmuch
21:20 gaal anymoose, I really doubt your error is coming from somewhere else
21:21 TreyHarris why wouldn't the colon display?
21:21 gaal are you sure you're running the right pugs?
21:21 TreyHarris yes.  modify time was after my last make
21:21 TreyHarris i even had prove6 print out the path of pugs
21:22 TreyHarris Eval.hs is getting recompiled, but it isn't getting included, or else the message is coming from elsewhere
21:24 weinig|bbl is now known as weinig
21:24 gaal hm well, come to think of it it's weird that the 'failed loading Yaml: ' part of the error isn't there
21:25 gaal but there's nowhere in the source that can otherwise produce this
21:25 gaal can you just run it manually?
21:25 gaal anyway I need to sleep
21:25 TreyHarris ktrace worked.  it was blib6/lib/Prelude.pm.yml
21:25 gaal you'll think of something :)
21:26 gaal that's good too
21:26 TreyHarris but i guess i can't really commit that change since it doesn't do anything
21:26 TreyHarris guess i'll revert
21:26 TreyHarris i do wonder where that error is coming from...
21:26 TreyHarris ah, well :-)
21:26 TreyHarris sleep tight
21:26 gaal well, if you're up to it a fix would be good to have... if you chase it
21:26 gaal thanks, bye :)
21:28 TreyHarris ahhh
21:28 TreyHarris i think i just figured it out
21:29 TreyHarris /usr/bin/pugs is using ~/src/pugs/blib6/lib/Prelude.pm.yml, but ~/src/pugs/pugs is using /Library/Perl6/Prelude.pm.yml
21:29 TreyHarris now, *why* that is so broken... I don't know :-)
21:29 TreyHarris my installed copy is using my working dir libs, and vice versa...
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21:45 svnbot6 r12528 | fglock++ | v6 - optimized op-precedence usage; gets about 10% performance; Test.pm
21:45 svnbot6 r12528 | fglock++ | compilation now requires <100M ram (was up to 400M)
21:45 clkao (!)
21:47 obra wow
21:50 nothingmuch gaal: ktrace is like strace, in terms of usage
21:50 nothingmuch it just dumps to a binary log
21:50 nothingmuch and kdump filters that log
21:50 nothingmuch and prints it
22:21 svnbot6 r12529 | Sage++ | The translator now declares any variables not already declared when the -S option is _not_ in effect. At present, it's not too smart: all variables are my, and _everything_ that's bot declared gets declared, even things that may not need to be explicitly defined.
22:21 svnbot6 r12529 | Sage++ | Anything the code declares will not be redeclared.
22:21 svnbot6 r12529 | Sage++ | This update includes updates to ASTUtil (for some new untility functions) ASTTranslate-sage (for the actual new translation) and TestInit.pm (to show off the new translations).
22:21 svnbot6 r12529 | Sage++ | The new TestInit.pm can be fed to pugs, as is, and run (I think) correctly. At the very least, it doesn't die...
22:24 svnbot6 r12530 | fglock++ | v6 - $?POSITION calls &?POSITION
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23:03 TreyHarris anyone know how to make a new Prelude.pm.yml?  i'm trying what seems obvious with util/gen_prelude.pl, but i'm getting "illegal hardware instruction"
23:03 svnbot6 r12531 | fglock++ | v6 - fixed a few warnings
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