Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2006-08-21

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
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01:06 svnbot6 r12532 | fglock++ | * PCR - uses plain insideout; Test.pm compiles with less than 80M ram; about 5% faster
01:09 xerox @arr
01:09 lambdabot I'll keel haul ya fer that!
01:09 xerox @arr
01:09 lambdabot Drink up, me 'earties
01:09 xerox @arr
01:09 lambdabot Avast!
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01:11 Patterner Avaunt!
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02:49 * agentzh is back now.
02:50 agentzh gaal: oh, coloring the tests using smoke results (just like catalog_tests.pl) is attractive.
02:51 agentzh but i think we should make it optional, since smoking pugs usually takes a long time, and the smoke results are implementation-specific, or even backend-specific.
02:53 agentzh today i'm going to make the HTML/CSS source generated by util/smartlinks.pl a bit nicer. :)
02:54 agentzh it seems to me fglock has been doing something amazing on v6.pm's optimization recently. :D
02:54 agentzh fglock++ fglock++ fglock++
02:55 * agentzh goes back to hack.
03:01 agentzh gaal: i've seen your svn log. :)
03:02 agentzh i didn't get cycles last night to add snippet boundary. too much time was sepent on debugging JavaScript code yesterday. ;-)
03:02 agentzh i'll do it now.
03:07 svnbot6 r12533 | agentz++ | [util/smartlinks.pl]
03:07 svnbot6 r12533 | agentz++ | - updated the comments
03:10 svnbot6 r12534 | Sage++ | Lots and lots of code cleanups. Just about every function gets some better documentation and some whitespace syntactic sugar.
03:10 svnbot6 r12534 | Sage++ | Just doing some cleaning in anticipation of code review.
03:19 svnbot6 r12535 | agentz++ | [util/smartlinks.pl]
03:19 svnbot6 r12535 | agentz++ | - suppressed error messages if it's not running with the --check option (but with a hint).
03:19 svnbot6 r12535 | agentz++ | - tweaked the errro message format a bit.
03:20 TreyHarris agentzh: gaal and i were talking last night about pugs-specific tests, did you see that?
03:20 agentzh oh? looking now...
03:21 TreyHarris no, i can repeat
03:21 TreyHarris basically, apparently xx-uncategorized used to be called "pugsbugs" and was used for pugs-specific issues
03:21 TreyHarris its new name, and your comment in TASKS, suggest that all those tests should be on language issues--which leaves the question of where pugs-specific tests should go
03:22 agentzh so what's your opinion?
03:22 TreyHarris make a pugsbugs subdirectory, or create a separate t/ elsewhere
03:23 agentzh i think the motivation of isolating tests into "pugsbugs" was probably to get audreyt++ easier to fix pugs bug.
03:23 agentzh *bugs
03:24 agentzh but you're talking about testing pugs-specifc features, right?
03:25 TreyHarris no... well, it's not like such bugs shouldn't be runnable by other implementations, just that they might seem odd and/or redundant in the context of being a language-specification test suite
03:25 TreyHarris like the one i checked in last night, that just checks if ".say for %hash" works, since it was causing pugs to segfault.
03:26 agentzh TreyHarris: oh, well. my gut feeling is that pugs' bugs could probably become bugs of implementation X. :)
03:26 svnbot6 r12536 | Sage++ | More code cleanups. Documentation improved, formatting better, and all is right with my little corner of Pugs.
03:27 agentzh TreyHarris: that test can go into t/syntax/... or t/statements/for.t, i think.
03:28 TreyHarris gaal said that such tests that cause segfaults should be isolated and placed alone in a file
03:28 TreyHarris and suggested pugsbugs as the appropriate place, not knowing it no longer exists
03:28 agentzh TreyHarris: yes, that makes sense.
03:29 agentzh TreyHarris: the dir name xx-uncategorized or "segfault" is okay.
03:29 TreyHarris and also those kinds of tests should be handled a little differently.  you shouldn't todo them in any circumstance, though audrey might choose to todo them just prior to a release if she wants to call out a known and as-yet-unfixed bug
03:30 agentzh *nod*
03:32 agentzh TreyHarris: go ahead and see how well it works in practice. :)
03:32 TreyHarris how about "critfails", or "critical" or something like that?  let all impls run them, but just put them together so that a) segregating into lots of little files won't be a pain to the organization of the rest of the tests, and b) developers can pay special attention to hard failures in that space?
03:33 agentzh will look later. sorry, lunch time now &
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03:40 cmarcelo audreyt et al: http://cmarcelo.blogspot.com/​2006/08/pugs-meets-judy.html && http://cmarcelo.blogspot.com/2006/​08/sold-arrays-delivered-maps.html... if you folks have any suggestion, new data, or something, please tell me... =)
03:40 lambdabot Title: cmarcelo: Pugs meets Judy
03:56 audreyt cmarcelo: would you be so kind and post the same article on pugs.blogs.com? :)
03:56 audreyt (the meets judy one)
03:57 audreyt o/~ hey judy, don't make it bad / take a slow pugs / and make it faster o/~
03:57 obra heh
03:58 wolverian hrm. I think I grog typeclasses now. thinking of them as java interfaces is really disparaging.
03:59 wolverian evan_tech++ # great journal on haskell at http://evan_tech.livejournal.com/
03:59 lambdabot Title: evan_tech -- Recent Entries
04:04 audreyt indeeed
04:08 cmarcelo audreyt: sure. how do I do it?
04:10 audreyt cmarcelo: check your email for a blog bit :)
04:11 audreyt wolverian: the oleghack he links to -- http://www.haskell.org/pipermail/​haskell/2004-November/014939.html -- is dazzling
04:11 lambdabot Title: [Haskell] Typeful symbolic differentiation of compiled functions
04:11 TreyHarris audreyt: do you have any opinion about the question of where pugsbugs should go?
04:13 audreyt TreyHarris: they should go squashed
04:13 audreyt but meanwhile, try to find relevant t/ to put them, and failing that, t/xx-uncateg.
04:14 TreyHarris ah, gaal said put them in separate files to themselves since they disrupt smoke reports otherwise
04:14 audreyt well, as long as it's not crashing.
04:14 audreyt if it is crashing, t/xx-uncateg is perhaps better
04:14 TreyHarris no, i'm talking specifically about crashing
04:15 TreyHarris ok
04:16 TreyHarris can evalbot survive a segfault?
04:16 TreyHarris i don't have a linux installation, so i've been tempted to try these as they come up against evalbot, but if i make it go away that would be bad
04:19 audreyt try it now? :)
04:19 TreyHarris ?eval my $i; $i++ for %?CONFIG; say $i
04:19 evalbot_12525 is now known as evalbot_12536
04:19 evalbot_12536 Error: Can't modify constant item: VUndef
04:20 audreyt you are not supposed to change %? hashes...
04:20 audreyt oh wait, it's $i not $_
04:20 audreyt nvm
04:20 TreyHarris that segfaults on my machine (also running r12536)
04:21 TreyHarris ?eval %?CONFIG.elems
04:21 evalbot_12536 Error: No compatible subroutine found: "&elems"
04:21 TreyHarris oh, i thought hashes supported elems
04:21 TimToady ?eval %?CONFIG.pairs.elems
04:21 evalbot_12536 0
04:21 TimToady ?eval [%?CONFIG].elems
04:22 evalbot_12536 1
04:22 TimToady ?eval %?CONFIG.say
04:22 evalbot_12536 OUTPUT[ ] Bool::True
04:23 TreyHarris those all work for me.  but %?CONFIG by itself in list context segfaults
04:23 audreyt investigating
04:25 audreyt fixed
04:25 TreyHarris ?eval my @a = @(%?CONFIG)
04:26 evalbot_12536 [undef,]
04:26 TreyHarris (i realize that's incorrect.  but it segfaults for me)
04:26 svnbot6 r12537 | audreyt++ | * TreyHarris++ pointed out that listifying Hash was
04:26 svnbot6 r12537 | audreyt++ |   crashing when it shouldn't, apparently a regression
04:26 svnbot6 r12537 | audreyt++ |   from Judyizing the interface.
04:26 TreyHarris making
04:26 TreyHarris audreyt++
04:27 cmarcelo haskellers: do you know hot to "export" instances? in CollectionsM I instantiate MapM (Data.Map.Map) and I thought that when I imported both Data.Map and CollectionsM the instance would be implicitly working... but doesn't looks like =P (actually I'm pretty sure that yesterday it works but doesn't today ...)
04:28 cmarcelo audreyt: (i got the blog bit, i'm reviewing a bit and will commit into blog)
04:30 audreyt cmarcelo: you don't export instances, they are assembled automagically
04:30 audreyt almost makes me wonder if we can allow separate "does" declarations
04:30 audreyt which seems like a good way to solve the Expression Problem (tm)
04:31 TimToady sort of a require...
04:32 audreyt (not runtime infix does, compile-time separate decl does)
04:34 TimToady I wonder how much "does" implies "use"...
04:35 wolverian audreyt, that is insanely cool. now, to port it to perl6..
04:35 wolverian (oleg's diff hack)
04:35 cmarcelo audreyt: expression problem => how to add new "cases" for a type and add new functions "on" that type without "trouble" (recompiling, changing lots of code, doing lots of boilerplate)? or is a deeper thing?
04:36 audreyt cmarcelo: exactly that
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04:43 cmarcelo audreyt: mind checking if you get "no instance error" changing "_BufToID" type to "Map ByteString ID" instead of "H.StrMap ByteString ID"...?
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04:48 audreyt sure. sec
04:48 audreyt surely you mean IORef?
04:48 audreyt IORef (Map ByteString ID)
04:49 audreyt ioref works here
04:49 cmarcelo ops. my mistake
04:50 svnbot6 r12538 | audreyt++ | * Pugs.Internals: Even more encode/decode `seq`ing
04:59 wolverian oh, what does the | do in: class Term t a | t -> a where...? I didn't find it in the specification
05:02 audreyt it's fundep
05:02 audreyt it's so much fun and addictive, you'll grow dependent on it
05:02 wolverian yes, but what does it mean? :-)
05:03 wolverian oh, should I look at the extensions?
05:03 wolverian found it. thanks :)
05:04 wolverian ...and it links to a paper. :D
05:04 audreyt see ghc userguide 7.4.3. Functional dependencies
05:05 audreyt roughly: multiparam typeclasses encode relationships
05:05 wolverian ah. thanks
05:05 audreyt some relationships can be fully determined only by some part of it
05:05 wolverian I went straight to 7.4.7 .. reading the paper anyway
05:06 audreyt in haskell-prime, the committee is considering fast-tracking associated types to replace fundep, though
05:06 audreyt since fundep force you to write prolog in haskell :)
05:10 wolverian hm.. the core doesn't use fundeps I gather?
05:10 wolverian (of ghc)
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05:10 TreyHarris audreyt: how can I rebuild Prelude.pm.yml?  i don't need to know anymore since i'm making pugs again, but for next time i wondered
05:10 agentzh TreyHarris: i was thinking about the "pugsbug" issue more seriously during my lunch and walk.
05:11 TreyHarris ok?
05:11 agentzh TreyHarris: perl util/gen_prelude.pl -v -i src/perl6/Prelude.pm -p .\pugs.exe --output blib6/lib/Prelude.pm.yml
05:11 audreyt TreyHarris: rm blib6/lib/*yml ; make
05:12 TreyHarris audreyt++ # r12537 fixes issue
05:12 agentzh hmm, i think i should add the yaml refresh commands into prove6.
05:12 TreyHarris ahhh... i left out the -p... part
05:12 agentzh because i'm also using this command constantly.
05:12 TreyHarris audreyt: that didn't work :-(
05:13 agentzh TreyHarris: now i totally second your opinion. we should have a pugsbug directory or something like that.
05:14 agentzh this directory holds separate files for special failing tests.
05:15 agentzh the tests should be as simple as possible. so that audreyt++ can fix the bugs more easily.
05:15 agentzh and more effectively.
05:15 TreyHarris yes.  the only question i have is does it just accumulate tests forever?  or do we create a subdir for tests that now succeed
05:15 agentzh but this directory shouldn't be under t/ since these tests are not supposed to run by ordinary test harness or smoke engine.
05:16 agentzh it shouldn't accumulate tests.
05:16 TreyHarris agentzh: eh?
05:16 agentzh most of the tests in this directory should also be put into corresponding test files in the main test suite.
05:17 TreyHarris old bugs come back to haunt you, you shouldn't delete them once fixed....
05:17 agentzh if they're segfaulting, then comment out the copies in the main test suite.
05:17 TreyHarris ah, i see.
05:17 TreyHarris we might want to have a hardfail directory then
05:18 agentzh TreyHarris: no problem, once the old bugs come back, we can detect them from the main test suite.
05:18 TreyHarris with stuff that *isn't* in the language, that shouldn't work, but shouldn't cause the implementation to blow chunks
05:18 agentzh and this directory shouldn't be included in the pugs release, i think.
05:18 agentzh so no TODO trick is needed there.
05:19 agentzh i'll be very willing to add new tests to such a directory because it's more likely to raise audreyt et al's attention.
05:21 agentzh there shouldn't be too many noises in this directory and the test files should be kept minimal, or we'll lose the point.
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05:23 agentzh TreyHarris: how about creating a "bug" directory at the same level of t/ ?
05:23 audreyt er no
05:23 audreyt xx-uncateg was known as t/bug/
05:24 agentzh audreyt: but i think the tests in t/bug should be skipped by the test harness.
05:24 audreyt but why?
05:24 agentzh segfaulting is smoke's killer.
05:25 agentzh (assume there's no timeout mechanism)
05:25 agentzh also pugs' bugs are not necessarily to be other implementations' bugs.
05:27 agentzh anyway these are solely my personal opinions. criticism welcome :)
05:28 * agentzh goes back to util/smartlinks.pl.
05:32 svnbot6 r12539 | trey++ | With segfault fixed by audreyt++,
05:32 svnbot6 r12539 | trey++ | moving hash tests to t/data_types/hash.t
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05:45 svnbot6 r12540 | agentz++ | [util/prove6]
05:45 svnbot6 r12540 | agentz++ | - added the --update-yml option. so now you can use the
05:45 svnbot6 r12540 | agentz++ |   following command to refresh Test.pm.yml and
05:45 svnbot6 r12540 | agentz++ |   Prelude.pm.yml:
05:45 svnbot6 r12540 | agentz++ |     util/prove6 --update-yml
05:48 * agentzh loves JSAN's css and decides to steal that for smartlinks.pl.
05:52 cmarcelo english speakers: is it "Pugs' trunk" or "Pugs's trunk"? or both?
05:52 gaal agentzh++ but please consider factoring out the actual generation to the Makefiile
05:53 gaal for Test.pm there's already a target
05:53 agentzh audreyt: what's the simplest way to upload HTML files to feather? via SVN? (i always use SOCKS4 proxy to connect to feather)
05:53 gaal for Prelude.pm.yml you'll need to add an option to build_pugs and run that
05:53 agentzh gaal: (?)
05:53 gaal note that build_pugs possibly constructs a larger Prelude than just src/perl6/Prelude.pm
05:54 agentzh gaal: would you please fix util/prove6 for me?
05:54 gaal agentzh: scp file feather.perl6.nl:
05:54 agentzh gaal: what is scp?
05:55 gaal agentzh: I will when I get cycles but that won't be for 10 hr
05:55 gaal cmarcelo: I think either works.
05:55 gaal agentzh: it's the ssh version of rcp
05:55 gaal oh you're on windows
05:55 agentzh ah, thanks!
05:55 gaal @google pscp
05:55 lambdabot http://www.chiark.greenend.org.u​k/~sgtatham/putty/download.html
05:55 lambdabot Title: PuTTY Download Page
05:57 agentzh pscp is already in my perl installation. yay!
05:57 gaal you probably need to set the username:
05:58 gaal pscp file [email@hidden.address]
05:58 agentzh thanks!
05:58 gaal also look in to "Paegant" on the same page, which allows you to do transfers with no need for manual password typing
05:58 TreyHarris cmarcelo: the usual rule (though it isn't 100%) is that if when sounded out, it ends in a zzz sound, you do s', but if it ends in a sss sound, you do s's.  Pugs' sounds right to me
05:59 agentzh k
05:59 cmarcelo i'll stick with "Pugs' " then =)
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06:04 agentzh gaal: when runing the command "pscp -load Feather [email@hidden.address] S02.html", i got the following error:
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06:04 agentzh ssh_init: Host does not exist
06:05 ludan hi
06:05 agentzh but i *can* login to feather via putty.
06:05 agentzh ludan: hi
06:05 ludan i'm going to make a coffee, see you later
06:07 * agentzh looks into psftp
06:10 svnbot6 r12541 | Sage++ | A first attempt at translating open(...). Not nearly complete, but at least some cases are handled.
06:10 TreyHarris agentzh: that syntax doesn't look right to me, though it's been awhile since i've used pscp.  i don't think you need the "-load Feather" bit
06:10 agentzh TreyHarris: i'm behind a firewall. i need the proxy settings.
06:11 cmarcelo audreyt: http://pugs.blogs.com/pugs/2​006/08/pugs_meets_judy.html
06:12 SageLT Whew, I think I'm through for the night. Guess that's it for my Summer of Code.
06:12 TreyHarris agentzh: ah.  did you do the set PATH=C:\putty\directory;%PATH% bit?
06:13 agentzh TreyHarris: putty, pscp, and psftp are all in my perl's bin directory. :)
06:16 agentzh obviously the -load option doesn't work for me. :(
06:19 Gruber is now known as Grrrr
06:19 cmarcelo audreyt: I asked english-enabled friends to review my original post, but fix it if something is wrong..
06:19 cmarcelo sleep &
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06:22 * agentzh gives up pscp and psftp, returning to svn-based file transfer.
06:37 agentzh i've checked in the HTML files generated by util/smartlinks.pl to my svn repos on berlios:
06:37 agentzh http://svn.berlios.de/svnro​ot/repos/unisimu/Perl/Syn/
06:38 lambdabot Title: Revision 663: /Perl/Syn
06:39 agentzh however, i think it's not appropriate to check them into the pugs repos. :)
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06:46 agentzh wow, has any kind person silently fixed "http://dev.perl.org/css/perl.css" for me?
06:47 agentzh the code snippets in the HTML files dramatically get bounded. :D
06:48 wolverian bounded?
06:52 agentzh wolverian: yes.
06:54 agentzh wolverian: look at http://svn.berlios.de/svnroot/r​epos/unisimu/Perl/Syn/S02.html
06:54 lambdabot Title: S02
06:54 svnbot6 r12542 | agentz++ | [util/smartlinks.pl]
06:54 svnbot6 r12542 | agentz++ | - fixed command line options with arguments.
06:54 svnbot6 r12542 | agentz++ | - formated the code snippets by stripping extra
06:54 svnbot6 r12542 | agentz++ |   indentation.
06:55 agentzh oh, the HTML looks much nicer now. yay!
06:55 wolverian oh. nice. I was looking at dev.perl.org
07:00 agentzh now we have code snippets from the pugs test suite embedded directly into the synopses! hooray!
07:00 gaal agentzh: try w/o a saved session? btw are you pushing to feather or d/ling from it?
07:01 agentzh gaal: that didn't work either.
07:01 gaal because that command line is for pulling from
07:02 agentzh gaal: it was the connection timeout error.
07:02 agentzh gaal: how about pusing files onto feather?
07:02 agentzh *push
07:02 gaal agentzh: pscp myfile [email@hidden.address]
07:03 gaal if you want it on the web area, then pscp myfile [email@hidden.address]
07:03 agentzh gaal: does this command take my proxy settings into account?
07:03 gaal dunno, let's look at the docs...
07:04 gaal hold on, which proxy? this is over ssh
07:04 agentzh SOCKS4
07:05 agentzh in fact, i wouldn't be able to connect to feather if there's no proxy. ;-)
07:06 agentzh gaal: you fixed the css on perl.org?
07:06 gaal how does your putty connection work?
07:06 gaal agentzh: not I
07:06 agentzh it's lovely. :)
07:06 agentzh gaal: putty has a GUI.
07:06 gaal agentzh: I'm aware of that :)
07:06 agentzh i set the proxy in its GUI.
07:07 agentzh JIT fixing++
07:07 gaal that's a proxy it creates, not uses, no?
07:07 agentzh i'm using a proxy offered by a company.
07:08 gaal agentzh: I'm looking at the berlios html, is that the one you liked? it looks like yersterday's html to me...
07:08 agentzh really?
07:09 * agentzh is surprised.
07:09 agentzh gaal: there's no border around the code snippets?
07:10 agentzh i can see the border here in both IE and Firefox.
07:10 gaal yes, there is a border
07:10 gaal apart from that?
07:10 agentzh so that's it.
07:10 gaal ah
07:10 gaal okay :)
07:10 gaal I thought I added the border in smartlinks.pl...
07:11 agentzh gaal++
07:12 gaal but that's not my change. it says
07:12 gaal style="border: 1px solid ; display: block;"
07:12 gaal I said
07:12 agentzh oh, yes, i see that.
07:12 gaal style="display:block; border: 1px solid" :-)
07:12 agentzh i didn't notice the change. :)
07:12 gaal so someone else must have dunnit
07:13 gaal (someone else)++, heh
07:13 agentzh looking into the log now...
07:13 gaal anymoose I should go now
07:13 gaal have a nice day :)
07:13 agentzh thanks!
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07:31 * agentzh believes the Perl 6 test suite should serve as a good extension to the Perl 6 Spec.
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07:37 audreyt agentzh: want to write about this a bit to perl6-language and/or pugs.blogs.com? (just sent you a blog bit)
07:38 TreyHarris agentzh: I can't figure out why the snippet of syntax/force_context.t appears immmediately above "return 0 but True" in S02, can you explain it to me?
07:38 agentzh audreyt: already sent a mail to p6l and p6c.
07:38 TreyHarris the smartlink to me doesn't specify that place
07:38 agentzh TreyHarris: looking
07:39 agentzh audreyt: thanks for the blog bit. :)
07:40 agentzh TreyHarris: yes, that's a bug in smartlinks.pl.
07:40 agentzh thanks for the catch. ;-)
07:40 agentzh there's also a bug related to "empty" snippet.
07:41 agentzh i'll try to fix them in the next 2 hours or so. :)
07:41 TreyHarris heh.  right, i was about to say that.  "empty" meaning consisting of just the test, right?
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08:11 pasteling "agentzh" at 210.22.200.67 pasted "I wonder why i can't get into #perl6 :(" (1 line, 8B) at http://sial.org/pbot/19176
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08:12 agentzh oh, finally back...
08:12 audreyt was netsplit
08:13 agentzh TreyHarris: no, being "empty" means the smartlink is pointing to the same code snippet of the next smartlink.
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08:14 agentzh in other words, adjacent smartlinks share the same code snippet right below them. :)
08:15 agentzh i think i should have added this to t/README...
08:15 agentzh adding now...
08:16 agentzh Juerd: can i keep a small perl script running on feather so that it can awake every 6 hours and update the HTML version of synopses automatically using smartlinks.pl?
08:17 agentzh (the sentence above is a bit long...)
08:17 audreyt yes you can . :)
08:17 agentzh thanks!
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08:25 agentzh audreyt: are you using the pugs working copy actively on feather? can i point the program to read the test suite under your working copy?
08:25 audreyt sure
08:25 audreyt ~audreyt/pugs/ is constantly updated
08:25 audreyt (by evalbot)
08:25 agentzh oh, it's very nice!
08:26 audreyt :))
08:36 agentzh oh, svnbot is no longer here. :(
08:38 agentzh gaal: (someone else)++ === (gaal)++
08:38 agentzh lol
08:40 svnbot6 joined perl6
08:40 audreyt the bot should be made netsplit-safe
08:49 * agentzh encounters the concept of netsplit for the first time.
08:49 svnbot6 r12544 | audreyt++ | * Remove third-party/TextRegexLazy now we have scw++'s alternate
08:49 svnbot6 r12544 | audreyt++ |   plan based on parsec combinators.
08:52 agentzh after fixing this bug in smartlinks.pl, luqui++'s point that we can only copy closures at the same source code position is now much clearer to me.
08:52 svnbot6 r12545 | agentz++ | [util/smartlinks.pl]
08:52 svnbot6 r12545 | agentz++ | - fixed the "empty" snippet bug. multiple adjacent smartlinks should share the same snippet of tests right below them.
08:58 clkao fglock: v6 is generating something stupid like "  return ( unless ( [ \( $Test::testing_started, ) ], {} ) );"
08:58 svnbot6 r12546 | agentz++ | [util/smartlinks.pl]
08:58 svnbot6 r12546 | agentz++ | - warn a message to stderr if empty snippets are detected at runtime (so as to make sure the previous bug is truly fixed)
09:03 agentzh supper &
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09:57 pmurias_ how do i flush stdin in p6?
09:58 pmurias_ for =<> -> { say "?" } is not lined buffered on feather
10:06 audreyt hmm. might be accidentally disabled by the decode strict fix
10:06 audreyt a sec
10:12 audreyt yeah. fixing
10:15 audreyt fixed (I think.) testing
10:16 audreyt try again?
10:16 svnbot6 r12547 | audreyt++ | * pmurias++ pointed out that =<> and =<file> and =$fh
10:16 svnbot6 r12547 | audreyt++ |   was accidentally made strict.
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10:43 pmurias_ audreyt: i use the feather build so i can't try it yet
10:46 audreyt there's the evalbot build
10:46 audreyt ~audreyt/pugs/pugs
10:46 audreyt that worksforme
10:47 audreyt pmurias_: what is this feather-build you refer to?
10:50 pmurias_ /usr/bin/pugs - isn't it the stable realase... :)
10:50 Juerd That lags far behind. rafl doesn't maintain this installation anymore, I think.
10:50 audreyt er no
10:50 audreyt that is 6.2.10
10:51 audreyt it's built about 10 months ago
10:51 audreyt I wouldn't mind ln'ing it to ~audreyt/pugs/pugs
10:51 Juerd audreyt: Great. I'll apt-get remove pugs then. Will you do the rest?
10:52 audreyt sure!
10:52 pmurias_ undecleared $module
10:52 Juerd Super
10:52 Juerd Done
10:52 Juerd That is - doing.
10:52 Juerd Done.
10:54 audreyt done.
10:54 audreyt pmurias_: try again?
10:54 pmurias_ works
10:55 audreyt yay
11:01 pmurias_ audreyt: does your version use PGE?
11:03 audreyt try again
11:03 audreyt I populated /usr/bin/parrot too
11:06 pmurias_ it uses PGE
11:07 audreyt good
11:09 pmurias_ could you look at ~/pmurias/ed.pl
11:09 pmurias_ it prints "print" on output not containing numbers,why?
11:10 audreyt drop the ->
11:10 audreyt $_ is not yet lexical
11:10 audreyt so it's seeing bad things
11:11 audreyt for @x -> {...} # this means to ignore values in @x
11:11 audreyt for @x {...} # this means to put values in @x to $_
11:11 Juerd What's hindering lexicalization of $_?
11:11 audreyt previously, it's all the $CALLER::_ defaults that was hindering it
11:12 audreyt now, there's nothing hindering it, so it should be done as part of Code refactoring that luqui/gaal/audreyt/etc are pushing
11:12 * audreyt is glad that $CALLER::_ defaults are gone.
11:12 Juerd Sounds positive :)
11:12 audreyt sure :)
11:12 * Juerd has to go to $office, but doesn't want to.
11:13 Juerd I've led a group of 15 kids (ages 13..16) for a week, and don't feel like going back to work :)
11:13 audreyt maybe you found your calling :)
11:14 Juerd I found it years ago, but now for the first time had the opportunity to actually do it :)
11:14 Juerd This is with an organization where I've been one of the kids for 10 years :)
11:14 Juerd They organize summer computer camps.
11:14 Juerd In three age groups, 9..13; 13..16; 16..20
11:15 audreyt pmurias_: also for some reason it needs to be written
11:15 audreyt if $_ ~~ m/\d/
11:15 audreyt investigating
11:20 pmurias_ it doesnt work
11:20 pmurias_ for me
11:21 audreyt you mean even with dropping -> and saying (if $_ ~~ m/\d/) ?
11:22 audreyt for =<> { if $_ ~~ /^\d/ { say "print" } }
11:22 audreyt this works for me
11:22 pmurias_ i tire if m/
11:23 pmurias_ *tried
11:23 audreyt that is a bug. fixed
11:23 rindolf What is the "~~" operator ?
11:24 audreyt http://search.cpan.org/dist/perl/pod​/perlsyn.pod#Switch_statements_____
11:24 lambdabot Title: NAME syntax - search.cpan.org
11:24 pmurias_ the generalisation of =~
11:24 rindolf pmurias_: I see.
11:24 rindolf pmurias_: is =~ still available in p6?
11:25 lumi Yes, it's spelt ~~
11:25 pmurias_ is there an equivalent of Perl::Tidy for p6?
11:26 audreyt no, not yet. want to write one? :) you can probably hook a Emit::Perl6 to v6.pm
11:27 pmurias_ i abbandoned my plans for an yhc backend and i'm working on an ed(1) in p6
11:27 pmurias_ and indenting code in ed doesnt work great...
11:27 audreyt nice!
11:27 svnbot6 r12548 | audreyt++ | * In boolean context, m// and // should match against $_.
11:27 svnbot6 r12548 | audreyt++ |   Reported by pmurias++
11:28 audreyt pmurias_: there you go :)
11:28 audreyt (/usr/bin/pugs on feather will be refreshed every 10 min or so)
11:30 Juerd [fast compiling pugs]++
11:30 svnbot6 r12549 | agentz++ | [t/README]
11:30 svnbot6 r12549 | agentz++ | - added discussion of multiple adjacent smartlinks.
11:30 svnbot6 r12549 | agentz++ | - added the command to generate HTML using smartlinks.pl.
11:30 svnbot6 r12548 | audreyt++ | * In boolean context, m// and // should match against $_.
11:30 svnbot6 r12548 | audreyt++ |   Reported by pmurias++
11:32 audreyt ?eval $_ = 10; if /10/ { say 'hi' }
11:32 evalbot_12542 is now known as evalbot_12548
11:32 evalbot_12548 OUTPUT[hi ] Bool::True
11:32 audreyt ?eval $_ = 10; if /11/ { say 'hi' }
11:32 evalbot_12548 undef
11:32 audreyt cool
11:38 xerox audreyt: watch this:
11:38 xerox [1 of 1] Compiling ByteStringParser ( ByteStringParser.hs, interpreted )
11:38 xerox Ok, modules loaded: ByteStringParser.
11:38 xerox *ByteStringParser>
11:41 audreyt url?
11:42 xerox I can mail it to you, it doesn't do much now anyway
11:43 * nothingmuch wonders whether Verby should be broken up into many dists
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11:53 audreyt xerox: is this based on parsec?
11:53 xerox No
11:53 xerox It's a rewrite from scratch
11:53 xerox *ByteStringParser> parseTest (pMany (pChar '1')) (Data.ByteString.Char8.pack "1111")
11:53 xerox "1111"
11:53 audreyt oh. I did that once...
11:53 audreyt with PArrows
11:53 xerox That is stepcut's work
11:54 audreyt nod
11:54 xerox Interesting
11:54 bpphillips joined perl6
11:54 audreyt src/Text/Parser/PArrow.hs is my work, based on musasabi's
11:54 audreyt mail me a copy anyway?
11:54 xerox Okay
11:54 audreyt have you talked to stepcut about licensing?
11:55 xerox Nope
11:55 xerox It says:
11:55 xerox -- Module      :  ByteStringParser
11:55 xerox -- Copyright   :  (c) Jeremy Shaw 2006
11:55 xerox -- Copyright   :  (c) Daan Leijen 1999-2001
11:55 xerox -- License     :  BSD-style (see the file libraries/parsec/LICENSE)
11:55 audreyt good enough
11:58 xerox Where do you want it mailed?
12:04 svnbot6 r12550 | agentz++ | [util/smartlinks.pl]
12:04 svnbot6 r12550 | agentz++ | - fixed the duplicate "syntax/force_context.t"
12:04 svnbot6 r12550 | agentz++ |   snippets bug reported by TreyHarris++.
12:04 svnbot6 r12550 | agentz++ |   (it was matching against code snippets as well as
12:04 svnbot6 r12550 | agentz++ |    true POD paragraphs.)
12:11 audreyt xerox: audreyt at audreyt dot org
12:11 rindolf Hi audreyt
12:11 xerox Sent
12:12 audreyt danke
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12:18 audreyt cool minimal design
12:18 xerox Yes!
12:19 audreyt but I like Parsecs error reporting
12:19 audreyt Unexpect / Expect
12:20 * audreyt ponders hacking that in
12:20 audreyt nah. MOP first :)
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12:21 xerox Okay :)
12:21 audreyt but thanks :) my $job can use this :)
12:22 lumi Can it be that make doesn't drift but make fast does?
12:22 xerox Uhu
12:22 audreyt lumi: possibly
12:22 Limbic_Region audreyt - did you happen to work on the Win32 opendir/readdir/etc over the weekend?
12:22 audreyt er wait
12:22 audreyt no
12:23 audreyt Limbic_Region: sorry, I didn't realize it was broken
12:23 audreyt so no
12:23 audreyt was it broken?
12:23 audreyt (I didn't add error reporting)
12:23 xerox audreyt: send back patches, if you happen to have sendable ones :D
12:23 Limbic_Region yes - you must have been really tired when you went to sleep at 4am on Friday
12:23 * Limbic_Region will check this morning as I am building fresh
12:23 audreyt that I was...
12:24 audreyt so, remind me: how is it broken? which test should I look at?
12:24 Limbic_Region it was actually my File::Find code for testing examples better
12:24 * Limbic_Region will re-nopaste in a sec
12:24 Limbic_Region want to tell you the only revision it actually worked in
12:25 audreyt oh that
12:25 audreyt no I didn't look into that
12:25 audreyt but I wonder if the bug was in opendir or not
12:25 Limbic_Region 12424
12:25 Limbic_Region your thinking on Friday was that it was getting an undef dir or something
12:26 audreyt if you svn up now
12:26 Limbic_Region and I was going to sprinkle debug prints throughout File::Find
12:26 audreyt (no rebuild needed)
12:26 audreyt does t/builtins/io/dir.t
12:26 audreyt pass?
12:26 Limbic_Region audreyt - already building fresh from most recent checkout
12:26 audreyt okie. I just commented out the win32 line on dir.t
12:26 * Limbic_Region does so after weekends regardless because Win32 seems to require realcleans far more than any other OS
12:26 svnbot6 r12551 | audreyt++ | * opendir tests - uncomment in win32
12:27 Limbic_Region it just saves me time
12:27 audreyt I understand
12:27 audreyt as a consolation, win32's GHC in optimized mode is much faster than on unix.
12:27 Limbic_Region cool beaners - moldy chicken
12:27 audreyt did you say you were currently building?
12:28 pasteling "Limbic_Region" at 129.33.119.12 pasted "File::Find code that was (and possibly still is) bombing on Win32" (14 lines, 295B) at http://sial.org/pbot/19179
12:28 Limbic_Region yes
12:29 Limbic_Region but it is early enough to restart if there is something you wanted to try
12:29 audreyt ok. give me 2min
12:29 Limbic_Region so build 12424 was the only build that actually worked once you started using ghc's code for the dir io stuff
12:29 Limbic_Region after that - it just kept silently exiting
12:30 Limbic_Region but then again, I didn't touch it all weekend myself
12:34 audreyt I didn't touch that codeline after r12424 either
12:34 svnbot6 r12552 | audreyt++ | * build_pugs.pl: "make profiled" will also rebuild third-party
12:34 svnbot6 r12552 | audreyt++ |   as profiled if needed.
12:35 Limbic_Region over 100 commits over the weekend - yippee
12:36 audreyt please build r12254
12:36 svnbot6 r12553 | audreyt++ | * Remove the lazy UTF8.lhs and fold encode/decodeUTF8
12:36 svnbot6 r12553 | audreyt++ |   back into Pugs.Internals as strict inlinable functions,
12:36 svnbot6 r12553 | audreyt++ |   which netted us lots of space win.
12:36 svnbot6 r12554 | audreyt++ | * Pugs.Parser.Operator: Let-float the currently-static levels
12:36 svnbot6 r12554 | audreyt++ |   of the operator table for both speed win (10%) and clarity.
12:36 audreyt pugs should be noticeably faster over the weekend
12:37 Limbic_Region well, it was already noticeably faster on Friday afternoon
12:37 audreyt smoke on my machine drops to <8min
12:37 audreyt on Friday it was still 12min or 12min
12:37 audreyt yeah, that is was
12:38 audreyt (bbiab)
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12:48 xerox Why isn't the Haskell community hacking ghc at large as perl6 is on his compiler? :(
12:50 audreyt the ghc hackathon will change that :)
12:50 audreyt (we talked about this in ICFP'05, where I foolishly jumped in and hacked GHC without knowing anything about it)
12:50 xerox Yarrr
12:50 xerox Another reason to be there...
12:50 xerox Sigh.
12:50 audreyt and identified (darcs, trac, hackathon) as the neccessary ingredients
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12:55 Limbic_Region audreyt - 12552-12554 aren't necessary for me to test the Win32 dir io stuff right?
12:56 Limbic_Region . o O ( he says being very very paranoid )
12:56 audreyt no
12:56 audreyt just uncomment the win32 line in dir.t
12:56 audreyt t/builtins/io/dir.t
12:56 audreyt and run it, and see if it works
12:57 Limbic_Region ok, just made it to the heap exhaustion point - the second nmake doesn't take nearly as long to finish
12:58 audreyt actually if you are feeling adventurous
12:58 audreyt I wonder if heap exhaustion is gone in GHC 6.5-win32
12:58 audreyt which can be installed from http://www.haskell.org/ghc/dist/current/dist/​ghc-6.5.20060819-i386-unknown-mingw32.tar.gz
12:59 audreyt but test that only if you have spare cycles :)
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13:07 audreyt xerox: looks like the upcoming GHC hackathon may have 30+ people
13:07 audreyt that's comparable to the largest perl6 hackathon yet
13:08 xerox Really? Wow.
13:08 audreyt bottom of http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/wiki/Hackathon
13:08 lambdabot Title: Hackathon - GHC - Trac
13:08 xerox On another front, I was thinking about mailing all the soc people and find out what's going on now that is finished
13:08 xerox Maybe have them write two lines on the wiki
13:10 svnbot6 r12555 | fglock++ | v6 - optimize Parse::Yapp output; gets another 10% speed
13:10 Limbic_Region audreyt - all 18 passed
13:10 Limbic_Region yippee
13:10 Limbic_Region now to test my code
13:11 Limbic_Region ok, my code still no workie - and no error messages in output
13:11 Limbic_Region so sprinkle lots of debugging print statements throughout File::Find?
13:12 mauke_ joined perl6
13:13 audreyt yeah
13:13 audreyt I think the bug is in the rel2abs call
13:13 cjeris joined perl6
13:14 Limbic_Region Ok - this is odd
13:15 Limbic_Region I disagree
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13:15 fglock joined perl6
13:15 Limbic_Region putting a say "Entering sub" as the first line of the find method doesn't even print
13:15 lisppaste3 joined perl6
13:15 * Limbic_Region is going to wipe out the entire body of the sub and see what happens
13:16 audreyt you can also use pugs -d
13:16 audreyt to see what's really happening
13:16 audreyt pugs -d yourprog > log
13:16 Limbic_Region will do - but first
13:16 Limbic_Region changing the method sub to the following body { say "entering sub"; return 1 }
13:16 Limbic_Region results in no output either
13:17 mauke_ is now known as mauke
13:17 Limbic_Region oh wait, I think I know what is going on here
13:18 Limbic_Region duh
13:19 Limbic_Region can't modify the File::Find in ext/ and expect it to affect the one in blib6/lib
13:19 Limbic_Region it must be Monday
13:19 fglock can I get an older revision using plain svn?
13:20 audreyt svn up -r 12380
13:21 fglock thanks
13:21 audreyt np :)
13:22 Limbic_Region audreyt - found the first anomoly - @start = @dirs || @.dirs; is empty though in my script $f.dirs = ('examples');
13:23 audreyt yes that's a bug
13:23 audreyt try cgiving it an array
13:23 audreyt $f.dirs = ['examples']
13:23 Limbic_Region ok
13:24 Limbic_Region same result - nada
13:25 Limbic_Region is there a way to dump a code ref to see the actual code?
13:26 audreyt ?eval class C { has @.dirs; method x { say @.dirs } }; my C $c .= new; $c.dirs = ['x']; $c.x
13:26 evalbot_12548 is now known as evalbot_12555
13:26 evalbot_12555 pugs: Enum.toEnum{Word32}: tag (-1229482828) is outside of bounds (0,4294967295)
13:26 audreyt ?eval class C { has @.dirs; method x { say @.dirs } }; my C $c .= new; $c.dirs = ['x']; $c.x
13:26 evalbot_12555 pugs: Enum.toEnum{Word32}: tag (-1227385676) is outside of bounds (0,4294967295)
13:26 audreyt wt...
13:26 audreyt that works locally.
13:26 audreyt actually the other way works too
13:26 audreyt can you try
13:27 audreyt @start = (@dirs ?? @dirs !! @.dirs) ?
13:27 lambdabot Maybe you meant: part state
13:27 baest joined perl6
13:27 Limbic_Region sure
13:29 Limbic_Region nada
13:29 Limbic_Region IOW - I am fairly certain @dirs and @.dirs is empty
13:30 audreyt my $f = File::Find.new( wanted_file => ..., dirs => ['examples'] );
13:30 audreyt does that work?
13:30 * audreyt ponders what's wrong...
13:31 * Limbic_Region tries
13:32 Limbic_Region took much longer to run, but still no output
13:33 svnbot6 r12556 | audreyt++ | * Allow pretty-printing subroutine body so that {...}.perl
13:33 svnbot6 r12556 | audreyt++ |   would print something.  It's not perl, though -- takers
13:33 svnbot6 r12556 | audreyt++ |   welcome to implement a real Pretty instance for Exp that
13:33 svnbot6 r12556 | audreyt++ |   dumps back to perl6.
13:33 Limbic_Region remember - this worked in 12424 which is really odd to me
13:36 Limbic_Region audreyt - ok, just discovered that things are working - sorta
13:37 pmurias_ how do i specify the http proxy in svk?
13:38 audreyt I got it.
13:38 audreyt pmurias_: in ~/.subversion/servers
13:38 pmurias_ thanks
13:39 Limbic_Region audreyt - I put a say statement in the wanted_file code ref - it is executing
13:39 Limbic_Region repeatedly I might add
13:42 audreyt the bug was in that named list params
13:42 audreyt when there's no default
13:42 audreyt assumes a default =undef
13:42 audreyt so @dirs is actually true
13:42 audreyt and always shadows @.dir
13:43 audreyt ?eval sub { 1234 }.perl
13:43 evalbot_12555 is now known as evalbot_12556
13:43 evalbot_12556 pugs: Enum.toEnum{Word32}: tag (-1227381580) is outside of bounds (0,4294967295)
13:43 audreyt ?eval 1+1
13:43 evalbot_12556 pugs: Enum.toEnum{Word32}: tag (-1229478732) is outside of bounds (0,4294967295)
13:43 Limbic_Region evalbot is fubar
13:44 Limbic_Region so this is really strange
13:45 Limbic_Region since @start is empty - it is starting at pwd
13:45 Limbic_Region it is hitting every single file in the pugs build dir
13:45 Limbic_Region and it isn't pushing any of them onto $.results because
13:46 Limbic_Region well, I am not sure why nothing is getting pushed onto $.results
13:48 Limbic_Region return 1 if $file ~~ m:P5/^.*\.pl$/; # should return 1 for any file ending in .pl correct?
13:49 ayrnieu return 1 if $file ~~ m:p5/\.pl$/;
13:52 audreyt the defaulting prolem is fixed
13:52 Limbic_Region ayrnieu - it's not my regex, it is in the synopsis for File::Find - my question was that it should work
13:53 Limbic_Region and in fact it does work, and $.results.push($abs) is happening - but for some reason the code is not finishing to produce the results
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13:54 Limbic_Region audreyt - do you suspect this will sove the problem?
13:55 audreyt let me commit the :@dir first
13:55 audreyt no, it's orthogonal, but at least it will let you get 'examples'
13:55 Limbic_Region I don't for the following reason - in method find, I hardcoded @start to examples and it still is not working
13:55 Limbic_Region ok
13:55 Limbic_Region so this is just so we can find the next whacky thing going on
13:56 audreyt fwiw, it worked for me.
13:56 audreyt i.e. your code verbatim now runs here
13:56 svnbot6 r12557 | audreyt++ | * Fix defaulting of named :@x so it gets bound to (), not (undef),
13:56 svnbot6 r12557 | audreyt++ |   when there's no incoming argument 'x'.
13:56 Limbic_Region well, thats a good thing
13:56 audreyt and the content of @file is correct
13:59 Limbic_Region is $f.dirs = qw/examples/; ok or should it still be ['examples']?
13:59 audreyt cmarcelo: r12701 made feather segfault :-/
13:59 audreyt cmarcelo: offending instance:
13:59 audreyt instance Refeable Int where toRef i = return $ toEnum i
14:01 audreyt i.e. negative ints will be rejected
14:01 audreyt that's kinda wrong :/
14:01 audreyt we want to map negative ints to large unsigned word instead
14:02 pmurias_ can rules take params like:
14:03 pmurias_ rule greet($who) {Hello $who,?}
14:04 pmurias_ i skimed through the rule part of the synopsis but i can't find anything
14:05 svnbot6 r12558 | audreyt++ | * Provide hand-crafted instance to make toEnum happier
14:05 svnbot6 r12558 | audreyt++ |   so we can continue using IntMap.
14:05 SamB re-feable?
14:05 SamB what does that mean?
14:06 audreyt referable, persumable
14:06 audreyt referable, persumably
14:07 audreyt pmurias_: yes, and pmichaud uses this calling syntax: /<greet: foo>/
14:08 audreyt but I think he and fglock eventually settled to /<greet('foo')>
14:09 audreyt and both are canonicalized to S05
14:09 audreyt line 642 I think.
14:11 pmurias_ i was vagly aware of the calling syntax,
14:11 pmurias_ i wasn't sure how you define them
14:12 pmurias_ pmichaud codes some of his rules in pir
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14:16 audreyt S05:642 explains it succintly
14:16 svnbot6 r12559 | audreyt++ | * build_pugs.pl: oops, typo.
14:16 svnbot6 r12560 | audreyt++ | * Switch back to HashTable in Pugs.Parser.Operator for now
14:16 svnbot6 r12560 | audreyt++ |   as the ReversibleHashIO instance's use of toEnum seems
14:16 svnbot6 r12560 | audreyt++ |   still to cause panic on feather -- no time to debug tonight.
14:17 pmurias_ audreyt: i use printed out synopses,i'll check the online copy
14:17 pmurias_ y
14:18 audreyt ok. grep for =head1 Extensible metasyntax (C<< <...> >>)
14:18 audreyt at about 20% into the text
14:20 Limbic_Region audreyt - I am almost finished building 12558
14:20 Limbic_Region if this no workie then I will try and debug on my own to give you something specific to look at
14:20 audreyt ok
14:20 audreyt locally it works
14:20 audreyt so if fails for you, might be a win32 thing
14:20 audreyt I'm using unmodified Find.mp
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14:22 Limbic_Region ok, step 1 is good @start contains examples
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14:23 Limbic_Region and so the program is dying somewhere in the while $dir = $.queue.shift loop since a say at the end of that loop is never printed out and thus $.results is never returned
14:23 Limbic_Region so I try and determine what dir and/or file it is bombing on
14:25 svnbot6 r12561 | masak++ | collected another reference. I'm done backlogging August now... July, here I come
14:26 audreyt ?eval 1+1
14:26 evalbot_12560 2
14:26 Limbic_Region yeah, evalbot is fixed
14:27 vel joined perl6
14:27 Limbic_Region s/yeah/yay/
14:32 audreyt sorry I need to fade now :) $job tomorrow morning
14:32 audreyt *wave*
14:32 Limbic_Region audreyt - good new
14:32 Limbic_Region news even
14:32 Limbic_Region telling it to ignore .svn directories caused it to work
14:32 audreyt yay
14:32 * Limbic_Region moves on to finishing the rest
14:33 audreyt Limbic_Region++
14:33 audreyt I don't have a .svn file here, that might be the diff :)
14:33 Limbic_Region .svn should be ignored anyway
14:33 audreyt yup
14:33 audreyt *wave* &
14:33 Limbic_Region thanks and sleep well
14:53 prefiks joined perl6
14:56 svnbot6 r12562 | fglock++ | v6 - some fixes, works with current Test.pm
14:58 [particle] joined perl6
14:59 fglock new v6.pm times: 1.1s for one-liners, 5.5s for Test.pm
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15:14 svnbot6 r12563 | fglock++ | v6 - fix warnings running Test.pm
15:15 fglock left perl6
15:22 Limbic_Region anyone running Win32 able to test something for me?
15:25 cjeris Limbic_Region: ?
15:26 dbrock joined perl6
15:26 Limbic_Region cjeris - are you up to the latest rev?
15:28 cjeris just built r12560
15:28 Limbic_Region close enough
15:28 pasteling "Limbic_Region" at 129.33.119.12 pasted "put this in foo.pl in the pugs build root dir and run it as pugs.exe -Iblib6/lib foo.pl" (21 lines, 378B) at http://sial.org/pbot/19183
15:29 Limbic_Region then nopaste the results to me
15:30 pasteling "cjeris" at 140.247.124.140 pasted "result of Limbic_Region's run" (2 lines, 48B) at http://sial.org/pbot/19184
15:31 cjeris sorry, it's r12561 not 12560
15:31 Limbic_Region cjeris - now change the $f.debug = 0; line to $f.debug = 1; tell me if the last line of output is "bye\n";
15:31 flips_and_rails joined perl6
15:31 Limbic_Region no worries - it is recent enough to have included all the lastest audreyt commits
15:31 amnesiac joined perl6
15:31 * cjeris watches the script enumerate the examples directory, slowly :D
15:32 Limbic_Region this is truly weird
15:32 svnbot6 r12564 | audreyt++ | * Pugs.Internals: Revive the ability for Var/ID to be CString
15:32 svnbot6 r12564 | audreyt++ |   (critical for embedded nulls in face of Judy.StrMap), by
15:32 svnbot6 r12564 | audreyt++ |   encoding \0 internally as \xC0\x80.
15:32 svnbot6 r12564 | audreyt++ |   -- In the \0 case, we diverge from the Unicode standard to remove any trace
15:32 svnbot6 r12564 | audreyt++ |   -- of embedded nulls in our bytestrings, to allow the use of Judy.StrMap
15:32 svnbot6 r12564 | audreyt++ |   -- and to make passing CString around easier.  See Java for the same treatment:
15:32 svnbot6 r12564 | audreyt++ |   -- http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api​/java/io/DataInput.html#modified-utf-8
15:32 svnbot6 r12564 | audreyt++ |   Note that we should not do that across I/O boundaries...
15:32 svnbot6 r12564 | audreyt++ |   So a more elaborate treatment in ByteString is needed anyway.
15:32 Limbic_Region you are getting the same results as me
15:33 cjeris ok, so there is a long list of +d/-d, etc lines, then a BIG line which I guess is the out of say ~@files; then two lines 'bye' '1..0' .
15:34 Limbic_Region cjeris - I am going to nopaste something and hopefully you can make sense of it
15:37 pasteling "Limbic_Region" at 129.33.119.12 pasted "See blib6\lib\File\Find.pm and comments below" (61 lines, 1.7K) at http://sial.org/pbot/19185
15:37 Limbic_Region basically, the inclusion of say "something"; gets it to work and produce the correct result if placed in 4 locations but the absense of which exits abnormally with no error
15:37 Limbic_Region IMO - that's weird
15:38 cjeris so, when you put the 'say's in only some of the places, does it give you only some of the results?
15:38 cjeris or does it die the first time it hits a branch with missing 'say'?
15:40 Limbic_Region cjeris - it is hard to say since adding debug lines affects the behavior
15:40 Limbic_Region though I think I have found a problem (not necessarily the problem)
15:41 cjeris Limbic_Region: this is well beyond the point at which I can have bright ideas :)
15:42 Limbic_Region ok - thanks
15:42 * Limbic_Region will continue to try and isolate but this is likely above his head too (meaning internals)
15:43 cjeris np
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15:45 Limbic_Region ok - guess I will take this up with audreyt in the morning but it is almost as if - it requires IO in order to continue looping
15:46 audreyt all four say is needed
15:46 audreyt or any one will do?
15:46 audreyt (it works without say here, so I'm relying on your info)
15:47 Limbic_Region audreyt - all 4 are needed if you want it to finish
15:47 audreyt cjeris: are you on win32 too?
15:47 Limbic_Region audreyt - yes, cjeris is on Win32
15:47 Limbic_Region basically - any loop that doesn't result in IO exits prematurely with no error output
15:48 Limbic_Region so with 3 out of the 4 it goes further than with 1 out of the 4
15:48 Limbic_Region so earlier when I thought excluding the .svn directories fixed the problem it really was because I had debugging turned on - but you should be sleeping
15:49 audreyt change say() to Thread.yield()
15:49 audreyt and see if that still works
15:49 Limbic_Region ok
15:50 Limbic_Region I found a parse bug if you are interested
15:50 audreyt it looks like my Pugs.Compat code using internal API for readdir might be subtly broken  after all
15:50 audreyt sure, what's it?
15:50 Limbic_Region else { say "foo" } # works without ; as it should
15:51 Limbic_Region else { #say "foo" } # does not work regardless of ; or not
15:51 Limbic_Region actually - I am not sure why I even mentioned the ; other than multi-statements was part of my testing
15:51 Limbic_Region though if the open and close brace are on diff lines - works as expected
15:51 audreyt uhm.
15:51 Limbic_Region the Thread.yield does not fix the prob
15:51 audreyt you mean you comment out the rest of the line
15:51 audreyt including braces
15:52 audreyt and expect the brace to reassert itself?
15:52 * [particle] thinks l_r has an in-head parser problem
15:52 * Limbic_Region reminds himself it is Monday
15:53 Limbic_Region ok - so ignoring my ignorance for a second, you should be sleeping though if you want to stay up and debug why adding say statements makes this thing work I am happy to oblige
15:53 audreyt Limbic_Region: ok. try "close $*ERR"
15:53 audreyt in place of say
15:53 Limbic_Region ok - in all 4 places?
15:53 audreyt yup
15:53 Limbic_Region and btw - was the Thread.yield() supposed to be empty arguments?
15:54 audreyt yeah
15:54 Limbic_Region k - thought so
15:54 audreyt it's noop that helps coop threading on systems without true preemptive threading
15:55 Limbic_Region oh, not sure if this does anything for you but say ""; and say 1; do not produce the same results
15:55 Limbic_Region say 1 in 4 places works, say "" does not
15:55 Limbic_Region and close $*ERR in all 4 places didn't fix the prob either
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15:56 audreyt ok. please do a -d dump
15:56 audreyt one for say1 and one for say""
15:56 audreyt and put them up somewhere (nopaste, upload to feather, etc)
15:56 audreyt pugs -d yourprog.pl > out.txt
15:56 Limbic_Region ok - I am verifying what I just said in case I missed one of the 4 places in part of my experimenting
15:57 audreyt reading -d dump will almost certainly show where it went wrong
15:57 Limbic_Region yep - I wasn't having another Monday moment - will nopaste for you momentarily
15:57 audreyt a poor subst of true interactive debugger, but hey :)
15:58 * audreyt remembers she woke up for food, and goes to fetch some. bbiab
15:58 Limbic_Region last few times I have tried -d it hasn't produced any output that the prog wasn't already btw, but will run on this particular prog to make sure
15:58 audreyt really? I'm surprised
15:58 audreyt what does
15:59 audreyt pugs -de1
15:59 audreyt print on your system?
15:59 * Limbic_Region was assuming it was a Win32 thing
15:59 audreyt not likely
15:59 Limbic_Region ooh, that's printing lots of stuff
15:59 audreyt good
16:00 audreyt including each subexpression, context, nesting depth, etc etc
16:00 Limbic_Region not good
16:00 Limbic_Region on the real prog - no debugging output (perhaps because it exited abnormally?)
16:00 audreyt it's huge, which is why I don't think nopaste = good idea
16:00 audreyt ugh
16:00 audreyt what about with "say 1"?
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16:01 pasteling "Limbic_Region" at 129.33.119.12 pasted "this is with 4 say "" and -d" (17 lines, 39B) at http://sial.org/pbot/19187
16:01 Limbic_Region running now
16:02 Limbic_Region ok, even more bizzare results
16:02 Limbic_Region not only did running with -d not produce any debug info
16:02 Limbic_Region it also caused the previously working config to not work
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16:03 audreyt :/
16:04 audreyt ok, clearly my internal posix-emu hack doesn't like itself
16:04 audreyt this is GHC 6.4.2, Win32, right?
16:04 audreyt I'll boot to win32 and debug it tomorrow
16:04 Limbic_Region yep
16:04 tup joined perl6
16:04 audreyt and for now -- arrange to say "\n" or something so you don't get blocked
16:04 Limbic_Region for the purposes of getting the test examples thing done - I will just turn debugging on to write it
16:05 audreyt k. sorry for all this trouble, and thanks for persisting :)
16:05 Limbic_Region no worries
16:05 Limbic_Region btw - not redirecting to a file causes the say 1 to finish and produce the correct results
16:06 Limbic_Region so to recap - using -d on a prog.name doesn't appear to do anything though -e from the command line works as expected
16:06 Limbic_Region redirecting to the file (possibly in conjunction with -d) causes the working config to not work
16:06 Limbic_Region say "" does not behave the same as say 1
16:07 Limbic_Region and finally - there must be non newline IO in those 4 places for it to work at all
16:10 Limbic_Region but apparently the -d on prog.name is only this prog specifically as a simple use v6-alpha; say "foo"; in foo.pl produce the correct debug output
16:10 * Limbic_Region wanders off to finish writing the test examples stuff
16:13 fglock joined perl6
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16:23 Limbic_Region someone refresh my memory - if I do my $out = `some command`; and I want to know if `` ran correctly - what var do I check - I assumed $!
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16:26 fglock I compared the v6.pm in svn with the latest CPAN version: 2.2x faster, 3x less ram :)
16:27 Limbic_Region fglock plus plus
16:27 cmarcelo joined perl6
16:28 fglock Limbic_Region: :)
16:30 Limbic_Region oh wait, this should be wrapped in an eval anyway so I guess I should be using system and checking $@
16:30 TreyHarris Limbic_Region: $?
16:30 TreyHarris you are writing Perl 5 code, right :-)
16:31 Limbic_Region no, Perl6
16:31 Limbic_Region err Perl 6
16:31 TreyHarris oh.
16:32 audreyt Limbic_Region: $! is correct.
16:33 svnbot6 r12565 | fglock++ | * Pugs-Compiler-Rule 0.16
16:33 Limbic_Region there must be something else that does this that I can steal - my brain is refusing to work today
16:33 audreyt there's no $@ and there is no $? anymore
16:33 Limbic_Region audreyt - ok, don't yell at me if I tell you that it is empty then
16:33 Limbic_Region pass or fail
16:34 audreyt that's because you don't have r12566 :D
16:34 svnbot6 r12566 | audreyt++ | * `` and qx{} now sets $! as they should.
16:34 Limbic_Region oh
16:34 * Limbic_Region svn ups
16:34 audreyt (j/k, thanks for prompting the fix.)
16:35 Limbic_Region well, I am almost finished with the test examples script
16:35 Limbic_Region was going to make a compliment one for verifying the code runs not just compiles
16:36 Limbic_Region audreyt - what about system() - shouldn't that be setting $! too?
16:36 audreyt sure
16:36 audreyt they all do now
16:36 Limbic_Region k
16:37 Limbic_Region so now go to sleep
16:37 * audreyt obliges
16:37 audreyt :)
16:37 Limbic_Region sleep well
16:37 TreyHarris night audre
16:37 TreyHarris urgh
16:37 TreyHarris audreyt
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16:46 svnbot6 r12567 | fglock++ | * v6.pm 0.014
16:48 masak joined perl6
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16:51 * Limbic_Region doesn't have the heart to tell audreyt that $! still isn't set if system() is wrapped inside an eval { }
16:51 svnbot6 r12568 | fglock++ | v6 - MANIFEST had some extra test files
16:51 audreyt you mean try{}
16:51 audreyt sure, because try{} resets $!
16:51 audreyt so you need to simply run system
16:51 audreyt and then check $!
16:51 audreyt without using try{}
16:51 Limbic_Region well, no I was using eval because I forgot about try -
16:52 audreyt same... eval"" resets $! as well
16:52 Limbic_Region no complaints about using eval btw
16:52 audreyt so don't use either :)
16:52 cmarcelo audreyt: is "toRef i = return $ unsafeCoerce# i" too abusive? considering its just for Int..
16:52 Limbic_Region but system produces all kinds of undesireable output so `` it is
16:53 audreyt cmarcelo: is Value 32bit always, or is it native length?
16:53 audreyt cmarcelo: as long as it's native length then unsafeCoerce# is fine
16:53 cmarcelo native
16:53 Limbic_Region grrr
16:54 Limbic_Region when I run ./pugs -c examples/cribbage_scoring.pl $! = 1
16:54 Limbic_Region cribbage_scoring.pl doesn't parse correctly
16:54 Limbic_Region when I run ./pugs -c examples/progressive_powerset.pl $! = 1
16:54 weinig is now known as weinig|away
16:54 Limbic_Region progressive_powerset does parse correctly
16:54 Limbic_Region $! isn't a lot of help there
16:55 Limbic_Region so just drop the -c
16:55 Limbic_Region that just feels wrong but grrr - I am going to finish this today
16:56 Limbic_Region wait - that is showing $! in both cases too
16:58 cmarcelo audreyt: what was blowing evalbot, the 1+1? there's a simpler test (other than running my own evalbot) I could make here to check before commit?
17:02 merlyn joined perl6
17:05 audreyt cmarcelo: any expr at all, 1+! would do
17:05 audreyt ./pugs -e1
17:05 audreyt would do
17:05 audreyt ./pugs -e 'sub f {}; f()'
17:05 audreyt to be utterly sure
17:06 cmarcelo ok.. i'm looking at HashIO now, then I'll test it..
17:07 Limbic_Region audreyt - should `pugs.exe -c examples\foo.pl` work?  It currently only works if I do examples\\foo.pl (note double backslash)
17:10 audreyt Limbic_Region: it has never worked in perl5
17:10 audreyt so I doubt it would suddenly work in perl6
17:11 audreyt (`` is a qq-interpolator)
17:11 audreyt g'nite :) &
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17:41 Limbic_Region wooo hooo finally
17:42 svnbot6 r12569 | Limbic_Region++ | audreyt++ for the assistance
17:42 Limbic_Region not pretty but it works - I would truly appreciate some advice or cleaning up the workarounds in rev 12569
17:42 kanru joined perl6
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17:50 fglock is S03, list infix ';' is in the same category as '¥ <== ==>' ?
17:56 meppl joined perl6
17:58 Aankhen`` Anyone know what it means if SVK says "Incomplete data: Delta source ended unexpectedly" when syncing?
17:59 prefiks Aankhen``: look at topic
17:59 gaal Aankhen``: svk sy -s 12103 //mirror/pugs
17:59 svnbot6 r12570 | audreyt++ | * Pugs.Parser.Operator: Resync with S03's optable, adding
17:59 svnbot6 r12570 | audreyt++ |   support for ?& (the non-short-circuiting boolean AND operator).
17:59 svnbot6 r12570 | audreyt++ | * Also parse for "ff" and "fff" but they are not yet implemented.
17:59 svnbot6 r12570 | audreyt++ |   The old "till" form is now gone.
17:59 Aankhen`` Ah.
17:59 Aankhen`` prefiks: Thanks. *sheepish grin*
17:59 gaal or 'http://svn.openfoundry.org/pugs' instead of //mirror/pugs if that gave an error
17:59 gaal the topical solution didn't workforme, fwiw
17:59 Aankhen`` I seem to have an up-to-date SVN::Mirror.
18:00 gaal and: Aankhen``! hi! :-)
18:00 Aankhen`` Hihi gaal. :-D
18:00 Aankhen`` Ooooh, guess what?
18:00 Aankhen`` I leave India in 9 days!
18:00 gaal where to? :)
18:00 Aankhen`` Canada.
18:01 gaal excellent! lots of moose in Canada.
18:01 Aankhen`` Aye. =)
18:01 Aankhen`` The SVK command worked, thanks. :-)
18:01 gaal moose!
18:01 gaal Mein Luftkissenfahrzeug ist voll von den Aalen.
18:03 Limbic_Region so of the 158 example scripts in examples/, 46 fail to parse correctly - not sure if that is better or worse than expected
18:03 svnbot6 r12571 | cmarcelo++ | * HsJudy: Fixes usage for negative numbers as keys and values.
18:04 Limbic_Region s/dates/dated/
18:04 * Limbic_Region begins trying to cleanup the non-parsing examples though his perl 6 knowledge is quite dates
18:04 Aankhen`` That was weird.
18:04 Aankhen`` [23:34:16] <Limbic_Region> s/dates/dated/
18:04 Aankhen`` [23:34:17] * Limbic_Region begins trying to cleanup the non-parsing examples though his perl 6 knowledge is quite dates
18:04 Aankhen`` Is that how you sent them?
18:05 gaal Limbic_Region: your Perl 6 is better than that of most people I know.
18:05 gaal go for it :)
18:05 Limbic_Region I think so
18:05 Limbic_Region I think so to Aankhen``
18:05 gaal predictive error correction!
18:05 Limbic_Region gaal - your help cleaning up some of the workarounds in t/examples/all_parse.t would be appreciated if you have tuits
18:05 gaal Limbic_Region: not really, sorry
18:06 Limbic_Region Aankhen`` - no, I sent them in the reverse order but the client I am using is likely sending in incorrect order
18:06 Aankhen`` Oh, I see.
18:06 Limbic_Region CGI:IRC is not the best client in the world
18:06 Limbic_Region but it is the only way I can be here from $work
18:07 Aankhen`` All ports blocked?
18:08 Limbic_Region Aankhen`` - well, obviously not http/https but those have to go through a proxy - so for all intents and purposes - yes
18:08 Aankhen`` Hrm.
18:08 Aankhen`` So they have to specifically whitelist ports for them to be open?
18:09 Limbic_Region Aankhen`` - I work for the U.S. Government - specifically one that focuses on security and secrecy
18:09 Limbic_Region nuff said
18:09 Aankhen`` Heh.
18:11 gaal there's an alternate U.S Government that doesn't focus on security and secrecy?
18:12 [particle] yes, it's in iraq
18:12 Aankhen`` LOL.
18:13 TreyHarris gaal: lol, I didn't realize you were at a half-hour offset timezone.  I went back almost a day looking for that comment from Limbic_Region at :34 past one of my hours :-)
18:13 gaal I... don't believe I am!
18:13 gaal IDT is GMT+3
18:14 TreyHarris gaal: i meant Aankhen``, I tab-completed once too many times
18:14 Aankhen`` Heh.
18:15 Aankhen`` Yeah, that half-hour has thrown off many people.
18:15 * gaal noticed a bug in IBM's "timzezone" wallpaper
18:15 gaal bbiab &
18:16 TreyHarris Limbic_Region: I've noticed that many *tests* are still using antediluvian pre-Synopsis Perl 6.
18:16 clkao ooo
18:16 clkao $ ab -clkao- [~/work/pugs/perl5/Pugs-Compiler-Perl6] time perl -Ilib -It -MTest -e1
18:16 TreyHarris I've been cleaning them up as I come across them
18:16 clkao 1..0
18:16 clkao clean compile
18:16 clkao 0.761u 0.051s 0:01.26 64.2%     10+6498k 0+0io 0pf+0w
18:19 Limbic_Region TreyHarris - well, do you happen to know if subtypes are currently parseable using Pugs?
18:20 Limbic_Region examples\hq9<plus> is currently failing to parse - I thought because s/subtype/subset/ but even that is still failing to parse - so I am thinking pugs hasn't implemented yet?
18:21 TreyHarris Limbic_Region: doesn't seem to be, just cut-n-paste Larry's first example in S12, parsefail
18:21 Limbic_Region TreyHarris - these aren't tests, these are examples
18:21 Limbic_Region the test is if they parse/compile or not
18:22 TreyHarris Limbic_Region: i'm sorry, I don't understand what you're saying.  If it doesn't parse, it doesn't parse, example or test, right?
18:23 * TreyHarris is still not caffeinated enough so may be a bit slow :-)
18:24 Limbic_Region TreyHarris - there are 158 example scripts which we are not testing and therefore, not keeping up to date.  I proposed adding a new test script that would iterate through them testing if they compile or not.
18:25 TreyHarris yes, i understood that... but i thought we were talking about subset not parsing.
18:25 TreyHarris oh, were you responding to my comment "I've noticed that many *tests* are still..."?
18:25 TreyHarris Right, I know it's different
18:25 Limbic_Region I am - I was trying to fix examples that were fixable - in this case it is not
18:25 fglock clkao: hi
18:26 TreyHarris But my point is, if the tests aren't even up to date, it doesn't surprise me that the examples are even farther out of date :-)
18:26 Eimi joined perl6
18:26 clkao fglock yo
18:26 TreyHarris commute &
18:26 Aankhen`` Hrm... Agent Zhang mentioned a util/smartlinks.pl, but I can't seem to find it.
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18:27 fglock clkao: did you rm Test.pmc first?
18:27 TreyHarris Aankhen``: have you pulled a pugs tree down from svn?
18:27 TreyHarris it won't be in a binary build
18:27 Aankhen`` I have the source checked out from Openfoundry.
18:27 TreyHarris or the last release
18:27 TreyHarris do you see the util directory?
18:28 Aankhen`` Yes.
18:28 Aankhen`` I see a lot of files, but not smartlinks.pl.
18:28 fglock clkao: oh, you are just testing '1', ok
18:28 TreyHarris it should be at the top level, the same place where Makefile.PL and configure and t are
18:28 clkao fglock: ya. really fast
18:28 TreyHarris ok
18:29 clkao in fact, superfast. almost sane as precompiled pmc
18:29 TreyHarris Aankhen``: run "svn stat -uq util"
18:29 TreyHarris (or, if you're inside the directory, s/util/./)
18:29 Aankhen`` Uhh... how does that translate to SVK?
18:29 TreyHarris do you get an "A    smartlinks.pl"?
18:29 TreyHarris oh
18:29 TreyHarris um.
18:29 Aankhen`` Hang on, it might be my fault.
18:29 TreyHarris dunno :-)
18:30 Aankhen`` I think I forgot to `pull`. *bangs forehead on wall*
18:30 TreyHarris smartlinks.pl was only added as of r12368
18:30 TreyHarris ok, really gotta run
18:30 TreyHarris &
18:30 Aankhen`` Ciao.
18:31 Eimi joined perl6
18:31 svnbot6 r12572 | Limbic_Region++ | renamed from mandel-p5.pl to allow test scripts to distinguish
18:31 Aankhen`` Thanks for trying to help, even if the fault was my own cluelessness. :-)
18:32 Limbic_Region how do you remove mandel-p5.pl from the repo?  I assumed svn del would do it?
18:32 svnbot6 r12573 | Limbic_Region++ | s/subtype/subset/ though still fails to parse due to pugs
18:34 * Limbic_Region gives up for the day not wanting to screw things up
18:36 svnbot6 r12574 | fglock++ | v6 - pod: command line switches, environment variables documentation
18:38 fglock clkao: v6.pm is doing around 100 lines/s here
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19:17 Lorn hi ppl, i install v6.pm here, and work with file.pl but in command line show this error
19:17 Lorn perl -Ilib lib/v6.pm -e 'for 1,2,3 -> $x { say $x }'
19:17 Lorn Can't open perl script "lib/v6.pm": No such file or directory
19:18 silug shouldn't that be '-Mv6' not 'lib/v6.pm'?
19:18 TreyHarris Lorn: I think you want -Ilib -Mv6
19:19 weinig|away is now known as weinig
19:19 TreyHarris actually, you want -Mv6-alpha
19:19 TreyHarris -Mv6 will complain that you're not running Perl 6 natively
19:20 Lorn perl -Ilib -Mv6-alpha -e 'for 1,2,3 -> $x { say $x }'
19:20 Lorn Can't open -e for input:
19:20 Lorn No such file or directory at /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8/Module/Compile.pm line 200.
19:20 Lorn BEGIN failed--compilation aborted.
19:21 gaal hi, quick survey: among those present, who is using GHC 6.4.x? Is a 6.5 snapshot hard to install on your platform?
19:22 TreyHarris Lorn: i'm getting the same thing
19:22 weinig joined perl6
19:22 TreyHarris gaal: i am, and attempting to do a ports install of 6.5 cause such badness--neither 6.5 nor 6.4 would work anymore--that I had to restore from backup :-(
19:23 Aankhen`` gaal: I am using 6.4.2, more out of inertia than anything else.  I doubt the snapshots would work happily on Win32 anyway.
19:23 gaal OS/X right?
19:23 Lorn TreyHarris: i will try -Ilib lib/v6.pm because cpan, recommend this in SYNOPSIS
19:23 TreyHarris audreyt helped me for several hours before that point, too, so it apparently wasn't something easy/obvious
19:23 TreyHarris gaal: yep.
19:23 gaal Aankhen``: FWIW I'd used earlier 6.5 snapshots with no problem at all from binary dists on Win32
19:24 Aankhen`` Okay.
19:24 Aankhen`` If it works, and Pugs needs it, I'll gladly install 6.5.
19:25 TreyHarris Lorn: yes, that seems to work, though with a number of sub redefinition warnings, and something about "Too late to run INIT block at ..v6.pm line 22"
19:25 gaal Aankhen``: 6.4 forces us to do some ugly workarounds in the hs code. from what I've seen, it takes a little longer to build pugs with it but the resulting pugs is much faster
19:26 gaal 6.6 should be released within a month
19:26 Aankhen`` The resulting Pugs is much faster with 6.5?
19:26 gaal once it does we're anxious to move over to it
19:26 gaal Aankhen``: yes.
19:26 Aankhen`` Hey, if a new, stable version of GHC is released, and someone reminds me about it, I'll upgrade in a heartbeat.
19:27 Lorn TreyHarris: ok, i waiting for fglock for some help, thanks ;)
19:27 anov joined perl6
19:27 gaal Aankhen``: why wait? :) it's a biggish download but it's easy to install on windows
19:27 gaal just remember to update your path :)
19:27 Aankhen`` gaal: Eh, 6.5 is not stable, is it?
19:27 gaal and you can have more than one ghc installed.
19:28 gaal no, but it works :)
19:28 Aankhen`` Heh.
19:28 Aankhen`` Okay, well, I'll do it in the morning.  I don't have the brainpower to do it right now.
19:28 gaal for that matter... pugs isn't stable either :;p
19:28 Aankhen`` Pugs is special. ;-)
19:28 gaal ok, suggestion, start the d/l tonight
19:28 Aankhen`` Good idea.
19:28 TreyHarris gaal: will 6.4 just stop working soonish?  if so, i guess figuring out why i can't get 6.5 working becomes a harder priority--though i note that even haskell.org says there's no good installation for OS X
19:29 gaal TreyHarris: audreyt and I are anxious for it, but of course we won't move until everybody's accounted for
19:29 Aankhen`` hc-6.5.20060819-i386-unknown-mingw32.tar.gz
19:29 Aankhen`` Is that the one I should download?
19:30 gaal if you can spare the moose to get it to work, the GHC community will thank you for it
19:30 gaal Aankhen``: I think there are .msi install versions of it.
19:30 gaal let me look....
19:30 Aankhen`` Not that I can see.
19:30 Aankhen`` (I'm looking at http://www.haskell.org/ghc/dist/current/dist/
19:30 lambdabot Title: Index of /ghc/dist/current/dist
19:30 Aankhen`` )
19:30 TreyHarris gaal: well, my working knowledge of Haskell is limited to my first CS course in 1992, and my knowledge of GHC is nil.  But I'll poke at it. :-)
19:31 fglock joined perl6
19:32 gaal Aankhen``: hmm, that's weird, I coulda sworn the old 6.5 I have wasn't installed from a tarball... oh well, at least that's still a binary dist :)
19:32 Lorn fglock: :) i have problems with v6.pm
19:32 Aankhen`` :-)
19:32 fglock lorn: in order to use lib/v6.pm as a script, it needs to be there - either cd to the dir, or make a link
19:33 fglock 'perl -Ilib lib/v6.pm' - with this syntax, it's not looked up in PERL5LIB
19:34 fglock it is a plain script
19:34 Lorn fglock: hmm, in script work fine, but in command line, dont work, the TreyHarris tell me to try this perl -Ilib -Mv6-alpha -e 'for 1,2,3 -> $x { say $x }'
19:34 Lorn but
19:34 Lorn Can't open -e for input:
19:34 Lorn No such file or directory at /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8/Module/Compile.pm line 200.
19:37 fglock Lorn: it's a Module::Compile and v6.pm problem - would you like a commit bit to fix it?
19:40 alinbsp left perl6
19:40 Lorn fglock: [pt-br] desculpa, mais eu esqueci que o é would :) e não entendi o significado da frase[/pt-br]
19:41 fglock Lorn: at the time -Mv6-alpha loads the compiler, -e was not executed yet
19:41 Lorn fglock: ok
19:41 fglock Lorn: [pt-br] " você quer acesso de escrita no site para resolver o problema? "
19:42 TreyHarris fglock: can -Ilib -Mv6-alpha -e'...' be made to work?  that other syntax is confusing to me
19:43 MacVince joined perl6
19:44 Lorn fglock: i understood, no, i try to resolv, if i can, i send the patch or upload them (after resolv :) ), ok?
19:44 fglock TreyHarris: ingy and audreyt were working on it
19:45 fglock Lorn: ok :)
19:46 TreyHarris fglock: thanks
19:48 fglock meeting &
19:48 fglock left perl6
19:48 fglock joined perl6
19:51 zgh joined perl6
19:51 svnbot6 r12575 | cmarcelo++ | * After fixing HsJudy, switch back to IntMap in Pugs.Parser.Operators.
19:52 cmarcelo does evalbot updates by itself or need some trigger?
19:56 cmarcelo ?eval 1+1
20:07 gaal cmarcelo: it updates itself.
20:08 gaal unless it blows up!
20:12 gaal audreyt: I just committed to a local branch a version that doesn't #include Pugs.Code.Val, thanks to the snaphot ghc fixes.
20:13 gaal two quirks I've noticed:
20:14 gaal first, I can still think of no way to separate the various primitive Pures to different files. the class ICoercible must be visible everywhere, apparenly *with* methods, but the types for the methods can't show up in the boot file
20:15 gaal because e.g. if you say class ICoercible where asBit :: moo -> PureBit, Bit.hs will refuse to consume that boot file
20:15 gaal I "solved" that by leaving Pugs.Val.Base for now.
20:16 gaal the other thing is that consumers needed a Pure class, but I couldn't put the full qualification of the class in the boot (because then it'd need to mention ICoercible, etc.). So I just have in the boot file 'class Pure a'
20:17 gaal I *think* that's all right?
20:18 gaal anyway, this does feel a little better. getting rid of the include is great :) but I wonder if we should petition for a ghc treatment of issue #1 in 6.6?
20:18 gaal not that I can see how that could work.
20:19 gaal since the point of a boot file is that you don't yet know what the incoming type really is, so you don't know it really is just a reexport of a type you yourself will have supplied to the consumed module
20:20 gaal -fin-
20:22 cmarcelo audreyt: P.P.Operators should work with IntMap now. my feather builds and works fine. dunno why evalbot didn't came back. I wonder if some of the segfaults you were having are related to this..
20:22 fglock joined perl6
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20:44 coke_ joined perl6
20:44 coke_ anyone here interested in CIL as a backend for pugs? hurry up and join #parrot on irc.perl.org
20:45 coke_ seen audreyt
20:48 cj joined perl6
20:48 cj audreyt: muahaha
20:48 zgh coke_: is this the same CIL? http://manju.cs.berkeley.edu/cil/
20:48 lambdabot Title: CIL Documentation (v. 1.3.5)
20:48 beppu I'm not a bot, but according to my scrollback, audreyt said: audreyt g'nite :) &  :at 10:11am PST
20:54 cj beppu: I figure audrey has a scrollback :)
20:54 cj aw man... someone let merlyn in here?
20:54 coke_ for this guys thesis, but he seems to think using pugs to target CIL won't do for thesis requirements.
20:54 coke_ ah well.
20:55 zgh careful he's on a cruise, that seems to make him cranky
20:55 cj zgh: he's more interesting when he's cranky :)
20:55 zgh hee
20:57 webmind env
20:57 webmind oops
20:58 coke_ give him a drink, and back away slowly.
20:59 cj coke_: it's funny 'cuz it's true
20:59 cj I've got hiccups... again
20:59 cj woe am I
21:00 * coke_ vaguely wishes that all these psuedos were mapped to 'have I ever run into this person at a con' images.
21:00 cj I'll help you out with that one...
21:01 cj http://colliertech.org/images/friends/me/cj.jpg
21:01 cj or with the long: http://colliertech.org/images/frien​ds/me/taking_picture.thumb-500.jpg
21:02 coke_ hurm. nope.
21:03 coke_ also nope.
21:03 coke_ =-)
21:04 zgh coke_: were you at OSCON this year?
21:04 coke_ just yapc::na
21:04 zgh some of my wo-workers made it to that one, I only made OSCON, maybe next year ^_^
21:04 coke_ I'm actually hoping houston hits next year. Used to live there, nice to visit again.
21:05 zgh wo-workers?
21:05 [particle] coke... on #perl6?
21:05 * [particle] faints
21:05 coke_ bite me, jerry!
21:05 [particle] get lost, enron!
21:05 coke_ you're just jealous that tcl on parrot is going to be done before perl6!
21:05 coke_ and we've only got 2 programmers!
21:05 [particle] thanks to mdiep!
21:05 mdiep *blink*
21:07 TreyHarris cj: hey man
21:07 frederico joined perl6
21:09 cj hey there TreyHarris
21:09 cj I missed your talk the other day
21:09 cj sorry :(
21:10 cj pushing out rss code for the plogs
21:10 TreyHarris no prob, if you're on here, i probably didn't hit anything you don't already know :-)
21:11 cj I figured.  I saw your name in the perl6 book.  you're famous :)
21:11 TreyHarris i had to skip given/when, gather/take, captures and regexes anyway because there was no way to effectively cover it in the time alloted.  (1 hour is *not* long enough to cover the major changes in Perl 6, even if you just want to say a sentence or two about each and show a code sample)
21:12 cj it's like it's a new language or something ;)
21:13 * zgh can't believe that his perl4 code won't run in perl6, it runs in ruby!
21:13 coke_ ... there's a perl6 book?
21:13 zgh kidding
21:13 TreyHarris actually, i could've covered gather/take... dunno why i didn't.
21:13 zgh sort of
21:13 TreyHarris coke_: very out of date, but yes
21:14 coke_ not the parrot one, but the other one?
21:14 cj isn't it called "perl 6 and parrot"?
21:14 coke_ ah. dan's book. k
21:14 TreyHarris coke_: Sugalski & Randal, Perl 6 & Parrot Essentials
21:14 ludan joined perl6
21:15 cj http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/05​9600737X/sr=8-1/qid=1156194875/ref=​sr_1_1/102-6884309-9210511?ie=UTF8
21:15 cj coke_: I thought it was allison's book ;)
21:15 coke_ heh
21:15 coke_ ... you say randal and I think merlyn, not allison. all too fconfusing. =-)
21:15 cj I'm giving her the credit because she signed mine
21:16 [particle] you should meet allison schwartz!
21:16 [particle] talk about confusing...
21:16 cj hiccup
21:16 penk joined perl6
21:16 * cj imagines allison + randal babies
21:16 cj we should keep that from happening
21:18 TreyHarris lol
21:20 cj TreyHarris: have you seen this?
21:20 cj http://colliertech.org/~cjcollier/spug.jpg
21:21 leo TreyHarris: heh - that book has 3 authors - careful
21:22 * [particle] grins
21:23 [particle] which author is responsible for all the outdated stuff?
21:23 cj leo: oh, I didn't see you there :)
21:23 cj leo: you going to be up here some time soon?  I still need a couple of signatures :)
21:23 cj er, autographs
21:24 TreyHarris leo: nah, the other one didn't do anything from what i hear ;-)
21:25 TreyHarris seriously, though, leo, i meant no slight, was just doing the usual citation thing of mentioning only the first two authors in order on the cover
21:26 [particle] sure, leo is short for 'et al'
21:26 cj heh
21:27 * leo 's considering a new name like 'Abel'
21:27 nothingmuch audreyt: ping
21:27 leo [particle]: I'm not short - 1m86 ;)
21:28 [particle] :)
21:28 TreyHarris nothingmuch: it's not even 6am there
21:28 coke_ left perl6
21:28 nothingmuch TreyHarris: that means she is probably still up ;-)
21:28 TreyHarris no, she went to bed four hours ago
21:28 nothingmuch seriously though, audreyt never had any direct correlation with any one time zone
21:28 nothingmuch oh, i didn't see that
21:29 * nothingmuch needs a pause admin... =/
21:29 cj leo: you could do what I did.  marry a girl with a last name that starts with A, and then hyphenate using the alphabetically superior one first
21:29 cj or guy, or whatever
21:29 leo cj: thanks ;)
21:31 [particle] hrmm. i think pugs should have a -Wall option, and perhaps a -Tang option
21:31 TreyHarris irssi help... why does '/last -regexp audreyt\>\s 5' not pull up anything?  i have several days buffered and can see audreyt's last
21:32 cj [particle]: both good ideas :)
21:33 TreyHarris hm.  i remember a CPAN module that did readline prompts really easily and also switched to STDIN transparently for piped usage... anybody know which one i'm talking about?
21:33 beppu wasn't the old joke something like:  if gcc has a -Wall, shouldn't perl have a -Stallman?
21:33 cj TreyHarris: no idea.  searching for your last works fine for me :)
21:33 leo particle: you know, parrot hat for quite a time a -Dan_Sugalski gcc option (iirc)
21:34 cj TreyHarris: but not with \>\s
21:34 beppu funny
21:34 TreyHarris cj: right.  audreyt's nick is mentioned so frequently i was trying to get just her actual comments
21:34 svnbot6 r12576 | lwall++ | For some reason the example parser test loop stops early without try {...}.
21:34 cj TreyHarris: so I'm guessing that there's a problem with the \>, maybe?
21:35 [particle] leo: i had no idea!
21:35 cj TreyHarris: if you strip the \ before the >, that might work
21:36 TreyHarris cj: i can't make any backslashed item work.  makes me wonder if -regexp is there more as a hope than as a feature
21:36 cj TreyHarris: you can always check.  want an svn url? :)
21:37 wolverian since when has > been a special character anyway?
21:37 TreyHarris cj: no.  i spent 40 minutes i didn't have prior to my presentation trying to get irssi built on a company host so that I could demonstrate evalbot.  long enough to make me not want to deal with irssi anytime soon :-)
21:38 TreyHarris wolverian: it's not, but i generally escape non-\w's just to be sure, especially when i'm a layer removed from the match
21:39 cj TreyHarris: heh, yeah.  it can be a pain sometimes..
21:39 cjeris left perl6
21:39 wolverian TreyHarris, well, it failed in this case. :) searching for a plain > works fine here, and searching for e.g. \? works as well
21:40 wolverian I don't know why \> doesn't work, though.
21:40 SageLT joined perl6
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21:42 TreyHarris wolverian: it just doesn't like backslashes.  "/last -regexp audreyt>.*utterly" works, "/last -regexp audreyt>.*\sutterly" doesn't
21:42 TreyHarris lol, except in finding the comment i just made.  so apparenly backslashes are being autoescaped
21:42 TreyHarris which rather dilutes the power of having perl regexps available in the first place...
21:59 wolverian TreyHarris, yup.
21:59 prefiks left perl6
22:08 cj heh.  LNG = Last Known Good... sound good to you folks?
22:13 kanru joined perl6
22:19 svnbot6 r12577 | lwall++ | Cleanup of some hop6 syntax errors.
22:29 svnbot6 r12578 | fglock++ | * v6 - this command line now works (note that there are 2 strings, one
22:29 svnbot6 r12578 | fglock++ | is for loading the module, and one is the perl6 code):
22:29 svnbot6 r12578 | fglock++ | perl -e 'use v6-alpha' ' "hello world".say '
22:32 baest joined perl6
22:32 svnbot6 r12579 | lwall++ | fixups to snowing.pl
22:38 svnbot6 r12580 | lwall++ | syntax updates for motd-i
22:44 TreyHarris nothingmuch: did you find any pause admins?
22:44 svnbot6 r12581 | lwall++ | syntax updates for rpm_calc.pl
22:46 TreyHarris In r12579:
22:46 TreyHarris -sub sleepy{for 1..5500 {;}}
22:46 TreyHarris +sub sleepy{for(1..5500) {;}}
22:46 TreyHarris why?
22:56 svnbot6 r12582 | lwall++ | operator \\ must be named infix:<\\\\> or infix:{qn'\\'}
22:57 Juerd Holy crap
22:57 Juerd We have a \\ operator?
22:58 wolverian in examples/
22:58 Juerd http://dot.kde.org/1156199214/  # Given the size of the KDE project, and the size of the parrot/pugs projects, we're doing quite well with feather's specs, I think :)
22:58 lambdabot Title: Immanuel: KDE Introduces New Server
22:59 SageLT joined perl6
23:02 svnbot6 r12583 | lwall++ | syntax updates (still doesn't pass though) to 01-10interpolating-functions.pl
23:03 SamB it probably isn't for array update?
23:03 TimToady TreyHarris: for() is a function call, not a statement control.
23:04 SamB that doesn't look like a good way to sleep either
23:05 bcorn joined perl6
23:06 TreyHarris TimToady: where is for() defined then?
23:07 TimToady for() is what it used to be.  I changed it to for 1..5500
23:07 TimToady your diff is backwards
23:10 TreyHarris oh... so it is.
23:10 TimToady for() is banned by S04, about line 955
23:10 * TreyHarris grins sheepishly and goes back to what he was doing
23:11 TreyHarris the "r12579" makes it oh so easy to just stick a - right before it in the svn diff command... :-)
23:11 TreyHarris i should write a script so i won't make that mistake again
23:13 TreyHarris line 878 of S04.  955 is the last line of the file...
23:14 TimToady .pod?
23:14 TreyHarris yes
23:14 TimToady yeah, you're right,
23:14 TimToady I was reading the wrong part of my vim status line
23:14 TimToady sorry.
23:15 TreyHarris we can both feel sheepish then :-)
23:15 TimToady darn, my first mistake of the year...  :)
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