Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2006-08-24

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
00:04 svnbot6 r12636 | lwall++ | Added .pm files, on assumption that duplicate parses are preferred to missing
00:04 svnbot6 r12636 | lwall++ | parses, and there might be examples that aren't named with the .pl extension.
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00:37 svnbot6 r12637 | markstos++ | Document in Differences.pod that eval {} in Perl5 is try{} in Perl6.
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01:19 marksto1 I don't see my syntax error. I keep getting "undeclared variable" for %args.  Usually it seems declaring a data structure in the sub signature takes care of that.
01:19 marksto1 multi method run_modes (%args) { return %!run_modes = %!run_modes, %args; }
01:19 marksto1 is now known as markstos_
01:19 markstos_ I tried a number of syntax variations, but I keep getting the error.
01:19 markstos_ It strange, because I've done similiar things a number of times and haven't run into this.
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01:30 markstos_ It looks like pugs treats subroutine signatures of (@a) and (%a) the same.
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02:05 svnbot6 r12638 | fglock++ | v6 - s/$_V6_GRAMMAR/%_V6_GRAMMAR/
02:05 svnbot6 r12638 | fglock++ | - implemented %(...)
02:05 svnbot6 r12638 | fglock++ | - fixed P6Term.pm to implement Term.pm API
02:05 svnbot6 r12639 | markstos++ | Attempt to enhance the usefulness of this page by cross-referencing the Apocalypse and Exegesis documents,
02:05 svnbot6 r12639 | markstos++ | and also try to explain what the heck the difference is, and which set of docs to look to first.
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02:23 pasteling "markstos" at 12.176.101.89 pasted "selecting the right multi-method when choosing been arrays and hashes" (26 lines, 554B) at http://sial.org/pbot/19246
02:24 markstos_ So someone take a long at this failing test (it even is made with "use Test"!) ? I'm not sure if I've run into a pugs bug, or my own ignorance and confusion.
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02:59 svnbot6 r12640 | markstos++ | remove "$self: " references here, which don't seem to add anything here.
02:59 svnbot6 r12640 | markstos++ | (Tests still pass after removing it. )
03:04 markstos_ I think what I don't understand is: How declare for a subroutine signature that the first arg is a hashref, as opposed to a hash?
03:14 PerlJam markstos_: What's a "hashref"?  Perl6 doesn't have refs anymore
03:14 markstos_ \%h
03:15 markstos_ What's \%h ?
03:16 markstos_ ?eval my %h = ( a => 'b'); say ref \%h;
03:16 evalbot_12640 OUTPUT[Hash ] Bool::True
03:16 markstos_ Hmmm.... smells like a working hashref.
03:17 markstos_ I want to handle   foo( a => 'b') and foo({ a => 'b' });
03:18 PerlJam pugs understands refs, but it doesn't yet understand that they're going away
03:19 markstos_ Is \%h going away ?
03:19 markstos_ Is foo({ a => 'b' }) going away?
03:19 PerlJam no, but they are just hashes to perl6
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03:20 markstos_ So then pugs is buggy if it dispatches foo(\%h) and foo(%h) differently?
03:22 markstos_ ( Incidently, there don't seem to be tests for  foo(\%h) and foo(\@a) in the test suite yet.
03:22 markstos_ I could add them, but I want to be sure of the expected behavior1
03:22 markstos_ s/1/!/
03:22 audreyt \%h dispatches to Capture
03:22 audreyt \@a too
03:23 audreyt %h and @a dispatch to Hash and Array respectively
03:23 audreyt {a=>'b'} dispatch to Array
03:23 audreyt er
03:23 audreyt {a=>'b'} dispatch to Hash
03:23 audreyt [1,2,3] to Array
03:23 audreyt (sorry, just woke up.)
03:24 markstos_ audreyt: Thanks. Is there an easy to express that I want \%h and %h handled as if they were the same?
03:24 audreyt the current runcore is Dec 2005's perl6, before the notion of Capture and before the semantics of \ got worked out
03:24 audreyt why would you want to do that?
03:24 markstos_ Ah.
03:24 PerlJam audreyt: thanks, I was trying to find a reference (heh!) that confirmed that \XXX always Captures XXX  (all of the examples that I found use \(...) or \"constant")
03:25 markstos_ audreyt: I'm porting something from Perl5, and it allows you to do foo( a => b ) or foo({ a => b})
03:25 markstos_ Of course, I could drop support for one varation as part of the port...
03:25 audreyt multi foo (%x) { ... }
03:25 PerlJam markstos_: that's a Pair and a Hash
03:25 audreyt multi foo (*%x) { foo(%x) }
03:25 audreyt like that?
03:25 audreyt PerlJam: er no, that's named and a hash :)
03:25 * markstos_ checks
03:26 audreyt Pair is when you do   foo('a'=>'b')
03:26 audreyt note the lhs of => is not bare (which would be named)
03:26 PerlJam oh, that's right, I've obviously forgotten
03:27 PerlJam you've just woken up and I'm still thinking in perl5  :)
03:28 audreyt markstos_: I think the most straightforward way is
03:29 audreyt sub foo (*@_, *%_) { %_ = (%_, @_); say %_.perl }
03:29 * markstos_ checks that
03:30 audreyt er sorry
03:30 audreyt sub foo (%pos?, *%nam) { my %arg = (%nam, %pos); say %arg.perl }
03:30 audreyt the latter is what you've expressed in english, I think
03:30 audreyt unless you want to mutually exclude them
03:31 audreyt in which case you want
03:31 audreyt sub foo (%pos?, *%nam) { my %arg = %pos || %nam; say %arg.perl }
03:31 audreyt but hopefully the idea is clear :)
03:32 markstos_ audreyt: Thanks. I'll think about that.
03:32 audreyt :))
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03:36 pasteling "markstos" at 12.176.101.89 pasted "to complicate matters, I want to support a hash, hashref, and arrayref calling styles..." (17 lines, 268B) at http://sial.org/pbot/19247
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03:37 markstos_ audreyt: so to complicate things, the interface I'm porting also supports an arrayref. I'm having trouble modeling that as a multi method, in addition to the hash and hashref options.
03:37 PerlJam audreyt: Is someone working on teaching pugs about Captures?
03:38 audreyt PerlJam: sure, when you see "newland val" or "newval" or "vv" on channel mentioned by gaal luqui me etc
03:38 audreyt it's the new Capture-based runtime
03:38 markstos_ I wonder if I should just revert to the Perl5 style code, which takes in an array, and then inspects it to see whether a hashref or arrayayref was based in.
03:38 audreyt ?eval vv("newland string").method(x=>1)
03:38 evalbot_12640 "CCall \"method\" CaptMeth \{c_invocant = VPure (MkStr \"newland string\"), c_feeds = [MkFeed \{f_positionals = [], f_nameds = \{\"x\":=[VPure (IFinite 1)]}}]}"
03:38 audreyt see, a capture!
03:38 audreyt but of course we won't force everyone to write vv() :)
03:39 audreyt so once the method dispatch stabilizes, all oldland values will become newland values, and the vv() bridge won't be needed
03:39 Alias_ audreyt: Oh good, you're here
03:39 PerlJam audreyt: neato
03:39 Alias_ audreyt: We have to be really careful when using PERL5_CPANPLUS_IS_RUNNING
03:39 audreyt Alias_: mm?
03:39 Alias_ It gives false positives
03:40 Alias_ Because the "RUNNING" isn't entirely accurate
03:40 audreyt right, kane mentions he's working on more fine grained reporting
03:40 Alias_ Yep, but the reason I hadn't written in support for that check already was the first time I tried, I got false positives and it was acting wrong
03:41 audreyt oy. I didn't know that
03:41 audreyt how do I reproduce the error? (I need to run for $job in a few mins, though, so better to mail me the recipe :))
03:41 Alias_ It's in ::With, but my tests were showing invalid results
03:41 Alias_ I have a test dummy module up somewhere
03:41 audreyt markstos_: don't use multi
03:41 Alias_ hang on
03:42 markstos_ audreyt: Thanks for the tip.
03:42 audreyt sub foo (@a? %h?, *%nam) { my %arg = (%h, %nam, @a); say %arg.perl }
03:42 audreyt sub foo (@a?, %h?, *%nam) { my %arg = (%h, %nam, @a); say %arg.perl }
03:42 Alias_ audreyt: http://svn.phase-n.com/svn/cpan/trunk/PITA-Test-Dummy-Perl5-MI/Makefile.PL
03:43 Alias_ That's my "cpan dummy" module for testing ::With
03:43 Alias_ You should be able to use that to test
03:43 audreyt k thx :)
03:44 Alias_ Once we get all those working (CPAN|CPANPLUS|manual) + (EU:MM|M:B) + (user|author) I'll start making everything else use it
03:46 audreyt that would be moosely
03:47 * audreyt also needs to think about integrating Sage's work
03:47 Alias_ Which is that?
03:48 audreyt ./pugs some_perl5_script_here.pl
03:48 audreyt 5->6 autotranslator
03:48 audreyt requires perl 5.9.4's MAD support
03:48 Alias_ Integrating it into M:I?
03:48 Alias_ Or do you mean pugs
03:48 audreyt no, into pugs :)
03:48 Alias_ ah
03:48 markstos_ audreyt: following your suggestion, but it seems when passing a hash, it gets treated an array of pairs rather than a hash.
03:49 audreyt markstos_: nopaste code?
03:49 pasteling "markstos" at 12.176.101.89 pasted "more on passing hashes, hashrefs and arrayrefs" (13 lines, 196B) at http://sial.org/pbot/19248
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03:51 markstos_ unrelated, my attempt at improving the Perl6 documentation has gone live:
03:51 markstos_ http://feather.perl6.nl/~agentzh/syn/
03:51 lambdabot Title: Index of /~agentzh/syn
03:51 markstos_ I tried to turn that page into more of a central resource.
03:54 audreyt markstos_: indeed without mlultis it looks kinda hard
03:54 audreyt multi foo (Array $a) { foo(hash($a.values)); }
03:54 audreyt multi foo (Hash $h, *%nam) {  my %arg = (%nam, $h.pairs); say %arg.perl;
03:54 audreyt }
03:54 audreyt would work
03:54 audreyt not pretty, though
03:54 audreyt will think about it some more :) but gotta run now
03:54 * markstos_ tests audreyt's code.
03:54 markstos_ Thanks audreyt++!
03:55 audreyt markstos_: on the portal page: I wonder if http://svn.openfoundry.org/pugs/docs/Perl6/Perl5/Differences.pod can be pod2html onthefly
03:56 audreyt aso singular of  Exegeses is Exegesis
03:56 audreyt but looks very pretty :)
03:59 svnbot6 r12641 | markstos++ | typo fixes. audreyt++
04:00 markstos_ I'm hoping agentz can help me Differences.pod into HTML.
04:00 markstos_ I also added some "smart links" to Differences.pod that I hoped will start working. :)
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04:13 pasteling "markstos" at 12.176.101.89 pasted "methods and subs dispatch an arrayref differently. Bug?" (29 lines, 507B) at http://sial.org/pbot/19249
04:14 markstos_ I need to go, but someone may be interested in reviewing my nopaste-- it appears to be bug where multi sub and multi method behave diferently.
04:24 audreyt MacVince: foo(@a) not foo(\@a)
04:24 audreyt er
04:24 audreyt s/macvince/markstos/
04:24 audreyt please not be using \ anymore :)
04:29 Khisanth the habits are going to be hard to kill
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05:22 agentzh markstos++
05:22 agentzh nice to see things had magically improved when i got up.
05:24 agentzh markstos: i'll autoHTML-ize Differences.pod on feather today. :)
05:25 * agentzh now has a long TODO list for himself.
05:39 * gaal moosees
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06:07 svnbot6 r12642 | gaal++ | * t/README - English fix
06:11 * agentzh feels like trying out mod_perl on feather.
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06:23 svnbot6 r12643 | agentz++ | [docs/feather/~/index.html]
06:23 svnbot6 r12643 | agentz++ | - updated this file using gen.pl on feather.
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07:07 svnbot6 r12644 | lwall++ | all_parse.t didn't interpolate filename correctly on failure.
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07:16 svnbot6 r12645 | lwall++ | Handle aBOMinations like the one currently in t/subroutines/param_signature.t
07:16 svnbot6 r12645 | lwall++ | (Also handle Unicode whitespace in general, while we're at it...)
07:17 TimToady audreyt: that change uses oneOf.  Could probably be faster by short circuiting characters known to be in the ascii range.
07:18 TimToady but my Haskell-fu isn't that good.
07:21 TimToady I can't tell whether the 10% slowdown is due to that or due to more of all_examples.t working...
07:21 TimToady (and other tests people have added recently)
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07:40 masak "latest release" is out of synch on http://rt.openfoundry.org/Foundry/Project/?Queue=270
07:40 masak it says "6.2.3"
07:40 lambdabot Title: Pugs -- OSSF
07:40 masak is someone able to fix that?
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08:31 integral masak: what should it be?  the version that's on CPAN?
08:34 integral ah, I see the problem, openfoundry thinks 6.2.12 < 6.2.3
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08:56 svnbot6 r12646 | agentz++ | [util/smartlinks.pl]
08:56 svnbot6 r12646 | agentz++ | - updated the comments
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10:03 dolmans ?eval my @subs = (sub foo { $_ * 2 }, sub bar { $_ * 3 });
10:03 evalbot_12646 Error:  unexpected "f" expecting comment, subroutine parameters, trait or block
10:04 dolmans or the Synopsis outdated? though the sub name is meaningless there.
10:21 masak integral: ah, so that's why. still strange though, because we didn't skip from 6.2.3 to 6.2.12, did we?
10:21 integral no, but I guess no one bothered to create the versions on openfoundry
10:21 integral it's not really part of the CPAN release process at all
10:21 masak integral: it's a minor thing, but still it's good if the version number is correct
10:21 masak methinks
10:22 integral *nod*
10:22 masak is there some sort of "ultimate" version comparison module somewhere?
10:22 masak seems like there's always corner cases in version comparison
10:23 masak what with 6.2.12 > 6.2.3
10:23 masak and "alpha" and "beta" suffixes
10:23 masak and so on, etc
10:23 integral sadly not.  even version.pm is too picky at times
10:25 agentzh masak: pugs' Test.pm can compare 6.2.12 and 6.2.3. :)
10:26 agentzh masak: but not with "alpha" or "beta" suffix.
10:26 audreyt first-class version object would be a win
10:28 audreyt dolmans: named sub exprs is not yet supported in pugs
10:29 dolmans audreyt: gotcha
10:30 * audreyt goes looking at TimToady's haskell haxx0r
10:31 audreyt TimToady: I think isSpace is already uunicody
10:32 audreyt TimToady: but FEFF is not space
10:32 audreyt I'll revert and implement my Haskell-prime encoding detection proposal :)
10:33 audreyt # http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/haskell-prime/wiki/SourceEncodingDetection
10:33 lambdabot Title: SourceEncodingDetection - Haskell Prime - Trac
10:33 audreyt (which is, in part, based on perl5's encoding detection)
10:38 leo audreyt: from which publically readable dir on feather should I start svnbot.pl? (I don't want to have another pugs repo in ~lt)
10:39 audreyt ~audreyt/pugs
10:39 audreyt but I use URL anyway
10:39 audreyt (also it's not a svn checkout)
10:42 leo thanks
10:42 audreyt np :)
10:42 agentzh is there any commandline utility for Pod::Simple::HTML?
10:43 audreyt alias pod2html='perl -MPod::Simple::HTML -e Pod::Simple::HTML::go'
10:47 agentzh audreyt: yeah, i know the one-liner. but there're too few options. :)
10:47 agentzh for example, css file, index control, url prefix used by links, charset, title, and etc etc...
10:48 agentzh so i'll start util/podhtm.pl if there's no such script. :)
10:49 agentzh A lot of excellent features of Pod::Simple::HTML are just undocumented, which is really an unfortunate. :)
10:51 audreyt please do feedback to allison so she can include it in the next release
10:51 audreyt of Pod::Simple
10:53 agentzh audreyt: okay
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11:06 svnbot6 r12647 | audreyt++ | * DrIFT.YAML: Make fromYamlBuf strict to save some more heap.
11:09 svnbot6 r12648 | audreyt++ | * Revert TimToady++'s Lexer patch as isSpace is already
11:09 svnbot6 r12648 | audreyt++ |   Unicode-aware.
11:09 svnbot6 r12648 | audreyt++ | * To handle BOM on UTF8 files (and UTF16, UTF32, etc),
11:09 svnbot6 r12648 | audreyt++ |   implement my source-code-encoding detection algorithm
11:09 svnbot6 r12648 | audreyt++ |   proposal for the next Haskell standard:
11:09 svnbot6 r12648 | audreyt++ |     http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/haskell-prime/wiki/SourceEncodingDetection
11:09 svnbot6 r12648 | audreyt++ |   Currently only UTF8 is handled; UTF16 and UTF32 throws
11:09 svnbot6 r12648 | audreyt++ |   an exception.
11:09 lambdabot Title: SourceEncodingDetection - Haskell Prime - Trac
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11:29 agentzh markstos: with the help of util/podhtm.pl, smartlinks in Differences.pod now work perfectly. (haven't uploaded to feather)
11:29 svnbot6 r12649 | agentz++ | - added util/podhtm.pl which is a POD to HTML
11:29 svnbot6 r12649 | agentz++ |   converter based on the excellent module
11:29 svnbot6 r12649 | agentz++ |   Pod::Simple::HTML.
11:29 svnbot6 r12650 | audreyt++ | * Support for UTF32LE, UTF32BE, UCS2LE, UCS2BE.
11:29 svnbot6 r12650 | audreyt++ |   Surrogate support coming soon...
11:35 svnbot6 r12651 | agentz++ | [util/podhtm.pl]
11:35 svnbot6 r12651 | agentz++ | - small tweaks
11:44 svnbot6 r12652 | agentz++ | [docs/feather/syn_index.html]
11:44 svnbot6 r12652 | agentz++ | - switched to the HTML version of the ``Differences''
11:44 svnbot6 r12652 | agentz++ |   document
11:44 svnbot6 r12652 | agentz++ | - added notes on the resynchronization cycles from the
11:44 svnbot6 r12652 | agentz++ |   Pugs repos. feather++
11:44 svnbot6 r12653 | audreyt++ | * Supprot for UTF16 surrogates: Now we can parse UTF16LE,
11:44 svnbot6 r12653 | audreyt++ |   UTF16BE source code, with and without BOMs.  That finishes
11:44 svnbot6 r12653 | audreyt++ |   all canonical Unicode (8/16/32) encodings. :-)
11:46 svnbot6 r12654 | agentz++ | [docs/feather/syn_index.html]
11:46 svnbot6 r12654 | agentz++ | - small wording fixes
11:46 svnbot6 r12655 | audreyt++ | * add -fglasgow-exts to Pugs.Parser.Program to silence warnings
11:46 agentzh wow...
11:47 audreyt :)
11:47 * audreyt is a happy unicoder
11:48 * agentzh is a happy htmler
11:48 * wolverian is a tired lama
11:48 wolverian llama I mean .. cough
11:48 audreyt O wolverian lama
11:49 wolverian :-)
11:51 agentzh markstos: Differences.html is now updated by feather for every 1 hour, and the smartlinks such as L<S04/...> in it are also working properly:
11:51 agentzh http://feather.perl6.nl/syn/index.html
11:51 lambdabot Title: Official Perl6 Documentation
11:51 agentzh and also:  http://feather.perl6.nl/syn/Differences.html
11:51 lambdabot Title: Perl6::Perl5::Differences
11:52 agentzh thanks to podhtm.pl. :)
11:53 wolverian http://perlcabal.org/syn/Differences.html looks more official ;)
11:53 lambdabot Title: Perl6::Perl5::Differences
11:53 agentzh perlcabal?
11:54 gaal moose moose
11:54 agentzh oh, perlcabal has exactly the same IP as feather.perl6.nl. :)
11:55 agentzh gaal: got some cycles?
11:56 gaal yup!
11:56 agentzh i just can't understand why http://feather.perl6.nl/~agentzh/syn/ is forbidden while http://feather.perl6.nl/syn/ is not.
11:56 lambdabot Title: Index of /~agentzh/syn
11:57 agentzh they're both symlinks pointed to ~agentzh/syn.
11:57 wolverian agentzh, ~/public_html can't usually refer to outside the public_html
11:57 wolverian (I mean, up the path)
11:57 agentzh wolverian: oh...
11:58 agentzh is there any workaround?
11:58 wolverian I assume you can configure it, but you probably need to edit apache's own configuration to do it, i.e. you can't do it from .htaccess
11:58 wolverian (I'm assuming though.. and in any case, you can give .htaccess the right to modify the setting in apache's config)
11:58 agentzh no problem, i have root access.
11:59 wolverian :-)
12:00 agentzh but i don't know how to configure that...well...
12:00 agentzh wolverian, gaal: do you know how to do that?
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12:02 agentzh btw, i hope people will like my podhtm.pl. ;-)
12:03 agentzh ...and even contribute to it.
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12:04 gaal agentzh: sorry, don't know off hand
12:04 agentzh gaal: no problem. :)
12:05 wolverian I don't remember either.
12:05 gaal this probably can help: http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/howto/public_html.html
12:07 agentzh looking
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12:16 svnbot6 r12656 | agentz++ | [docs/feather/index.html]
12:16 svnbot6 r12656 | agentz++ | - added a link to feather's Synopsis index to feather's
12:16 svnbot6 r12656 | agentz++ |   homepage.
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12:22 svnbot6 r12657 | agentz++ | [docs/feather/index.html]
12:22 svnbot6 r12657 | agentz++ | - adjusted the page layout.
12:22 agentzh oh, evalbot has been killed.
12:22 agentzh ?eval 1+2
12:25 agentzh okay, i've found the answer in feather's httpd.conf:
12:25 agentzh Options SymLinksIfOwnerMatch
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12:43 agentzh do i need to kill feather's apache and restart it so as to make my changes to httpd.conf take effect?
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12:49 agentzh yay, it works!
12:49 agentzh the FollowSymLinks option and the command "apachectl -k graceful" have solved my problem completely. :)
12:50 agentzh gaal++ wolverian++
12:51 wolverian yay :)
12:52 wolverian if you're using debian's apache, I think the preferred method is 'invoke-rc.d apache restart', or so
12:52 wolverian or reload
12:53 agentzh debian's apache?
12:53 agentzh etc/apache2?
12:54 wolverian the one installed with apt-get :)
12:54 wolverian i.e. not one that you've built locally
12:54 agentzh ah
12:55 wolverian the startup/restart/etc scripts are in /etc/init.d
12:55 * agentzh has a lot of things to learn.
12:55 wolverian I've aliased 'service' to 'sudo invoke-rc.d' :)
12:56 agentzh okay
12:58 gaal audreyt: in the source encoding detection proposal, how does xs@[_] work? and xs@[0x00, _] etc.?
13:01 gaal is this new haskell prime syntax?
13:12 * Limbic_Region wonders if he was the only one suprised and a little dismayed by Ponie buying the farm
13:13 [particle] i certainly wasn't.
13:17 Limbic_Region perhaps I shouldn't have been
13:17 Limbic_Region I normally would have thought that it would have been offered up as a community project prior to getting the death blow
13:18 Limbic_Region but then again, the smart folks making decisions probably realized that too many such projects spreads the volunteer work force too thin
13:18 [particle] there was an offer some time ago for a new lead. nobody bit
13:18 Limbic_Region particle - that's not the story I got
13:18 * Limbic_Region pulls up the email
13:19 audreyt gaal: no, it's just regular pattern matching
13:20 Alias_ This is open source, you can spread as thin as you like, if you are ok with things slowing down for a while
13:20 Alias_ Look at Module::Install...
13:20 Alias_ It's gone through a slow period while people are on other projects
13:21 Limbic_Region the only email I have is from Andy Lester saying he was trying to get the project fired up again but I also recall a conversation on IRC with someone on the inside that said they were sifting through candidates and an announcement would be made soon
13:21 Limbic_Region *shrug*
13:21 audreyt hmm? new ponie news?
13:22 Limbic_Region it's dead
13:22 audreyt url?
13:22 Limbic_Region perl6.announce
13:22 audreyt (I know it's dead, just havn't seen the obituary)
13:22 * Limbic_Region fetches a url
13:22 [particle] bbiab
13:22 Limbic_Region oh, it's on pugs blogs
13:22 Limbic_Region that's where I first saw the headline
13:23 agentzh joined perl6
13:23 Limbic_Region http://planetsix.perl-foundation.org/?
13:23 audreyt ahh. http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl6.announce/524
13:23 audreyt it's not on pugs blogs
13:23 lambdabot Title: nntp.perl.org - perl.perl6.announce (524)
13:24 Limbic_Region audreyt - I meant the "journals" link from the pugs homepage
13:24 Limbic_Region they are synonomous in my browser the way I have the links set up
13:24 audreyt gotcha
13:24 Limbic_Region so no chance to work on the weird Win32 IO thingy yet?
13:24 audreyt obra++ # still preserved the "organ harvesting" meme
13:24 * Limbic_Region has been conquering weird DNS problems the last 2 days for $work
13:25 audreyt Limbic_Region: which test is that? :)
13:25 Limbic_Region audreyt - t/examples/all_parse.t
13:25 Limbic_Region the comment that says this is a horrible workaround that needs to be removed ASAP but is the only way Win32 currently works
13:25 audreyt if $*OS eq any(<MSWin32 mingw msys cygwin>) { $f.debug = 1;
13:25 audreyt }
13:25 audreyt this?
13:25 Limbic_Region $f.debug = 1; # should be completely unnecessary
13:26 Limbic_Region yeah
13:26 cjeris joined perl6
13:26 Limbic_Region in a nutshell, in File::Find if there are not 4 say "something" strategically placed - it bombs on Win32
13:27 Limbic_Region interestingly enough say "" does not work the same as say 1; # the latter working for some definition of work
13:27 audreyt yes, I remember that. booting into win32 now
13:27 Limbic_Region but running pugs -d on this particular example on Win32 produces no debug output (at least for me)
13:29 Limbic_Region audreyt - fwiw, it was confirmed by another Win32 user
13:29 Limbic_Region cjeris that is
13:31 weinig is now known as weinig|
13:31 weinig| is now known as weinig|work
13:32 Limbic_Region oh, you mentioned trying to upgrade to GHC 6.5, I might just do that as I have a few minutes
13:33 Limbic_Region except http://www.haskell.org/ghc/download.html apparently doesn't list it - I'll check the IRC log as I thought you posted a link too
13:33 lambdabot Title: The Glasgow Haskell Compiler
13:34 audreyt oh no, my paralels image no longer boots
13:34 [particle] great. she drops the laptop running os/x, and windows breaks.
13:35 audreyt disk0s2: 0xe0030005 (UNDEFINED).
13:35 audreyt that sounds like a HD corruption.
13:35 [particle] sure does.
13:35 Limbic_Region well, perhaps the head scratched as the laptop plummeted to the floor
13:35 Limbic_Region but knowing how important it was for you to continue your work
13:35 audreyt macbook supposedly has antiravity
13:35 audreyt I mean, gravity detection
13:35 Limbic_Region God saw fit only to damage the Win32 side
13:37 vel joined perl6
13:38 audreyt I wonder what's the standard procedure for this
13:38 gaal audreyt: so [1,2,3] in patmatch is the same as (1:2:3:[]) ?
13:38 audreyt gaal: yes
13:38 * Limbic_Region gets brave and attempts to build 6.5 on Win32 instead of waiting for the binaries
13:38 norageek2 joined perl6
13:38 agentzh audreyt: btw, evalbot is down. so the feather site is no longer up-to-date. :)
13:38 audreyt Limbic_Region: no, use the vinaries
13:38 audreyt http://www.haskell.org/ghc/dist/current/dist/
13:38 lambdabot Title: Index of /ghc/dist/current/dist
13:38 audreyt scroll to bottom
13:39 audreyt agentzh: evalbot is down but it will still autoupdate  :)
13:39 agentzh oh? checking now...
13:39 agentzh audreyt: yes, you're right. :)
13:40 Limbic_Region audreyt - unless I am missing something, there is no way to tell where the binaries are as they all have the same naming convention
13:40 audreyt http://www.haskell.org/ghc/dist/current/dist/ghc-6.5.20060823-i386-unknown-mingw32.tar.gz
13:40 audreyt is the one you want
13:40 audreyt "mingw32" is your platform
13:40 * Limbic_Region thinks that is what he was downloading
13:40 audreyt 20060823 is the latest snapshot
13:41 Limbic_Region over 60MB for a binary distribution
13:41 audreyt it's 45MB
13:41 Limbic_Region oh, must have grabbed the wrong date then
13:41 audreyt there's nothing there that's over 60mb, but some of them came close
13:42 kanru2 is now known as kanru
13:42 Limbic_Region audreyt - ghc-6.5.20060101-i386-unknown-mingw32.tar.gz   is listed as 61MB
13:42 Limbic_Region just to nit
13:42 audreyt ahh you grabbed the first one
13:42 audreyt sorry, were scrolling backwards
13:43 audreyt indeed you are right :)
13:43 Limbic_Region yeah, wasn't realizing they were in ascending order but that makes sense
13:43 * Limbic_Region believes his brain was damaged (hopefully not permanently) by the sustained high fever for the 2  weeks he was dealing with the acute symptoms of mononucleosis
13:44 qmole joined perl6
13:45 audreyt oy
13:49 Khisanth joined perl6
13:52 lambdabot joined perl6
13:53 plisk joined perl6
13:53 agentzh where should i put the timestamp in the Synopsis page? at the very begining, right after the `index', or in the VERSION section?
13:54 audreyt very beginning
13:54 audreyt I think
13:54 agentzh audreyt: okay
13:54 rashakil_ joined perl6
13:54 Limbic_Region audreyt - that particular snapshot does not include bin\ghc.exe ?
13:54 Limbic_Region did the binary get renamed or something?
13:55 gaal Limbic_Region: read INSTALL
13:55 lambdabot Most guys don't understand me, but we really seem to connect.
13:56 Limbic_Region ahhh
13:56 lambdabot Whatever
13:56 Limbic_Region given that it was a binary installation I would have assumed installation wasn't necessary
13:56 * Limbic_Region bonks himself in the head with a cement brick
13:56 gaal and you're blaming mono for brain damage....
13:57 * Limbic_Region used the .msi last time
13:59 Limbic_Region gaal - there is no configure so I will dig around somemore but if you happen to know of some Win32/MinGW install instructions - please let me know
14:00 gaal sorry, no haven't used that patform in a while
14:02 gaal try #haskell?
14:02 Limbic_Region can't get there from here
14:02 MacVince joined perl6
14:02 * Limbic_Region can only access channels/networks that feather allows
14:04 audreyt Juerd: add #haskell to cgi-irc please? :)
14:04 svnbot6 r12658 | audreyt++ | * "use" and "require" of modules that has different encoding
14:04 svnbot6 r12658 | audreyt++ |   now works again.
14:05 Juerd audreyt: You have root :)
14:05 Juerd audreyt: I'm a bit busy getting my life back on tracks these days. I'm delegating as much as I can. Sorry about that.
14:05 audreyt sure. "you have root" is good enough response
14:06 gaal added
14:06 agentzh Juerd: i'm adding timestamp to smartlinks.pl. audrey said it had better appear at the very beginning of the HTML page.
14:06 [particle] #jifty and #svk would be nice, too
14:06 Limbic_Region ok - the fact that there is no configure anywhere to be found leads me to believe this no workey
14:06 Juerd agentzh: Somewhere at the top is a great place indeed.
14:06 gaal adding. (are they both both on freenode?)
14:06 [particle] yes
14:06 agentzh okay, soon you'll see the effect. :)
14:06 Juerd gaal: The "on" thing was my own hack. It no longer works since a system upgrade.
14:06 Juerd gaal: We're back to servers and channels.
14:07 Juerd Which it sees as two separate arrays, with no interrelation :|
14:07 Limbic_Region ok, heading over to #haskell now - thanks everyone
14:07 Juerd Limbic_Region: The thing lets you be in multiple channels, afaik...
14:07 Juerd "/join #haskell"
14:09 audreyt Limbic_Region: a sec. I have a hypothesis about ghc win32...
14:09 Limbic_Region Juerd - neato
14:09 Limbic_Region audreyt - question already posed in #haskell but if you get to it first - great
14:10 Limbic_Region it appears the channel is preoccupied with something ATM anyway
14:10 evalbot_12658 joined perl6
14:13 audreyt Limbic_Region: my hypothesis is that the 20M of reduced size
14:13 audreyt corresponds to a broken build that did not have ghc.exe and core binaries
14:13 svnbot6 r12659 | agentz++ | [util/smartlinks.pl]
14:13 svnbot6 r12659 | agentz++ | - added obvious timestamps to the resulting HTML pages
14:13 svnbot6 r12659 | agentz++ |   according to the suggestion of Juerd++.
14:13 audreyt which means the last known-good version is http://www.haskell.org/ghc/dist/current/dist/ghc-6.5.20060819-i386-unknown-mingw32.tar.gz
14:14 audreyt so please use that instead.
14:14 Limbic_Region audreyt - my thought too except according to the build log - it worked
14:14 * Limbic_Region needs to wander off but will be back
14:14 audreyt I checked the build log, and I suggest not trust it
14:14 gaal incomplete download?
14:14 gaal insufficient disk space at unpacking site?
14:14 gaal biteating worms?
14:17 audreyt apparently I need to boot with macosx dvd to fix the disk
14:18 agentzh Juerd: please comment on the brand new timestamps: http://feather.perl6.nl/syn/S02.html  :)
14:18 lambdabot Title: S02
14:20 audreyt Limbic_Region: sorry that I don't have a win32 anymore to fix the win32 problem -- I'll see what the apple repair people say tomorrow and hopefully I can get my old laptop back sufficiently to continue working on this
14:21 * audreyt decides to sleep instead of trying potentially increasingly destructive repair mechanisms
14:21 audreyt g'nite :) hopefully the biteating worms won't find their ways to my OSX data tonight...
14:22 agentzh audreyt: sleep well. ;)
14:23 gaal night audreyt
14:24 b_jonas joined perl6
14:24 [particle] agentzh: i like the timestamp. is it possible to include the svn rev number?
14:24 agentzh particle: oh, that's easy. :)
14:24 agentzh adding now...
14:25 agentzh particle: but there's problem: where should i put the revision number?
14:26 agentzh *a
14:26 [particle] how about in parens, after time
14:26 agentzh but that way may be confusing
14:26 agentzh we have different rev number for pugs and syns
14:26 [particle] actually, i want both.
14:26 * agentzh is shocked.
14:27 [particle] so it can be determined what the sources were.
14:27 agentzh well, i don't know where the pugs rev number stores.
14:27 agentzh is it in the pugs tree?
14:27 [particle] svn info
14:28 agentzh i know the synopsis rev number in at docs/Perl6/Spec/
14:28 audreyt ./pugs -v |grep Version
14:28 [particle] i know it's in the parrot config file
14:28 [particle] ah, great.
14:28 agentzh ah, okay.
14:29 Juerd agentzh: I like the timestamp
14:29 agentzh Juerd: glad to hear that. :)
14:29 Juerd agentzh: May I place a request for the time format? :)
14:29 agentzh Juerd: oh, not really. :(
14:29 [particle] perhaps you could format it as C<< <br/>using pugs revision 999 and synopsis revision 999. >>
14:29 Juerd Okay then
14:30 agentzh particle: it's getting longer and longer, i'm afraid. :)
14:30 [particle] make the font smaller :)
14:30 Juerd pugs r999, syn r999 :)
14:30 [particle] sure, that works fine
14:30 agentzh good
14:31 agentzh particle: would like to add that to smartlinks.pl?
14:31 Juerd I'm always for concise info :)
14:31 agentzh i'm a bit tired.
14:31 Juerd As long as it's clear enough :)
14:31 [particle] agentzh: i'll try. but i haven't run smartlinks.pl yet
14:31 agentzh i've been fight with feather these days. :)
14:32 * [particle] builds a recent pugs
14:32 Juerd agentzh: Has feather been naughty?
14:32 agentzh Juerd: no, feather is cute.
14:32 agentzh the ssh terminal here is terribly slow. :(
14:32 Juerd Aw
14:33 agentzh particle++
14:34 agentzh particle: the synopsis rev info is in the file docs\Perl6\Spec\.spec-revision.
14:35 [particle] thanks
14:35 markstos agentz: Move the timestamps to the bottom of the page. Putting them at the top makes look they are most important thing to see.
14:35 markstos The most prominent heading on the page should be "Synopsis 2: Bits and Pieces", because that's the key piece of information.
14:36 agentzh markstos: to be honest, adding timestamps as html footer is much easier, but more poeple here tend to see the time at the very begining. :)
14:36 agentzh *people
14:37 Juerd markstos: The information is very relevant at the beginning. Not because it's key info, but because it's very dynamic, and indicates that the system works.
14:37 Juerd markstos: Besides, POD starts after the index, so people scroll down anyway :)
14:38 frederico joined perl6
14:38 markstos markstos: That's just my two cents as a professional website developer with some graphic design training...
14:38 * markstos accidently replies to self. Weird.
14:39 Juerd markstos: In a marketing sense, you're absolutely right; but our goals differ... These documents are for interested people mainly...
14:39 Juerd afk
14:39 * Limbic_Region attempts ghc 6.5 from a snapshot earlier in the month
14:39 [particle] C<nmake unoptimized> fails :(
14:39 agentzh particle: you don't need to build pugs at all. :)
14:39 [particle] oh? then how do i get the version info?
14:39 agentzh util/smartlinks.pl doesn't require a working pugs.
14:40 audreyt [particle]: fails how?
14:40 agentzh i think the version info must be stored in the source tree.
14:40 [particle] Writing new package config file... done.
14:40 [particle] Installation failed for filepath at util\build_pugs.pl line 164.
14:40 [particle] NMAKE : fatal error U1077: 'C:\WINDOWS\system32\cmd.exe' : return code '0xff'
14:40 [particle] Stop.
14:40 * agentzh hasn't built pugs for days.
14:40 audreyt indeed the revinfo is src/Pugs/pugs_version.h
14:40 audreyt so you can read that instead
14:40 [particle] ah, great. i can read the header
14:41 audreyt [particle]: nopaste a more complete log?
14:42 pasteling "[particle]" at 144.81.84.139 pasted "win32 make failure" (85 lines, 3.9K) at http://sial.org/pbot/19251
14:43 audreyt fixed.
14:43 Limbic_Region audreyt - you are correct WRT snapshots being b0rk
14:44 * Limbic_Region doesn't know who the right person to tell is so he will just throw it out in #haskell
14:44 audreyt [particle]: r12660 should fix nmake
14:46 markstos Juerd, check out how the darcs wiki works, which is moinmoin powered. They do included the changed timestamp on every page, but it's grayed out the bottom, so you have to look for it: http://wiki.darcs.net/   I think that's sufficient if anyone wants to check the freshness.
14:46 svnbot6 r12660 | audreyt++ | * modify build_pugs probing for older win32 Cabal
14:46 lambdabot Title: FrontPage - DarcsWiki
14:47 markstos Juerd, agentz: also, "S02.html" can removed from the timestamp, since it just repeats the URL. Something more useful would the source filename, like "Perl6/Spec/Operators.pod".
14:47 markstos anyway, I'm grumpy and should get back to work.
14:48 audreyt markstos: kindly hack util/smartlinks.pl however you see fit :)
14:48 markstos Thanks to you both for your help with the documentation!
14:48 [particle] audreyt: fixed. make continues...
14:48 [particle] audreyt++
14:48 audreyt [particle]++
14:48 markstos audreyt: Agreed. I'll proceed in the wiki style once I return to FreeTime.
14:48 agentzh markstos++
14:49 audreyt speaking of FreeTime... I need to wake up early for $job tomorrow too
14:49 * audreyt fades
14:49 markstos left perl6
14:50 cjeris $job--
14:52 mdiep_ is now known as mdiep
14:55 * agentzh takes a break.
14:58 Limbic_Region particle - you on Win32 ATM?
14:59 [particle] yes
14:59 [particle] crap, another build error
14:59 Limbic_Region me too
15:00 Limbic_Region thought it was related to my recent switch to ghc 6.5
15:00 [particle] util\build_pugs.pl :383 ?
15:00 Limbic_Region just a sec
15:00 Limbic_Region no, mine looks different
15:00 Limbic_Region let me nopaste
15:01 [particle] it seems there's a lot of assumptions in pugs now that Judy is installed
15:01 marmic joined perl6
15:01 [particle] i don't have Judy
15:02 agentzh particle: Judy is in the pugs source tree.
15:02 [particle] is it required, or optional and broken if you don't have it?
15:02 Limbic_Region she's a real sweet lady, but nearly as sexy as Perl
15:02 [particle] hrmm
15:02 agentzh particle: your pugs has errors while compiling Judy?
15:02 pasteling "Limbic_Region" at 129.33.119.12 pasted "Current Win32 build error" (42 lines, 1.9K) at http://sial.org/pbot/19252
15:02 Limbic_Region particle - see third-party
15:02 * Limbic_Region believes that's where Judy is
15:02 pasteling "[particle]" at 144.81.84.139 pasted "win32 make error (Judy ??)" (197 lines, 13.4K) at http://sial.org/pbot/19253
15:02 agentzh particle: if yes, then that's my fault. :)
15:03 agentzh looking now
15:03 [particle] lr: are you building unoptimized?
15:04 bpphillip1 joined perl6
15:05 agentzh it seems to me the C part of Judy has been successfully built, no?
15:06 Limbic_Region particle - I never build unoptimized
15:06 Limbic_Region my Judy error is different than yours anyway
15:06 agentzh LR: "nmake fast"
15:06 * Limbic_Region blames agentzh
15:06 Limbic_Region how is fast different from unoptimized?
15:07 agentzh LR: you may have a try...much faster!
15:07 agentzh at leaset on my win32 box.
15:08 agentzh LR, particle: you two are all having problems with the HS part of Judy, rather than the C part.
15:08 agentzh i wrote the code which builds the C Judy on Win32.
15:08 cookys joined perl6
15:08 Limbic_Region agentzh - faster build but is the resulting executable faster?
15:08 lollan joined perl6
15:09 agentzh LR: of course, the resulting executable is *a bit* slower.
15:09 Limbic_Region I don't mind pugs taking an hour to build - it's all about the runtime
15:09 agentzh fast == unoptimized
15:09 agentzh LR: but pugs is changing very fast.
15:09 Limbic_Region particle - what version of ghc are you running
15:09 agentzh so i have to rebuild pugs over and over again.
15:10 Limbic_Region agentzh - I seldom have to build from scratch so keeping up to date is not bad
15:10 agentzh i got the same error as particle.
15:10 agentzh Win32, GHC 6.4.2 here.
15:10 Limbic_Region I had no problems with Pugs with GHC 6.4.2 but I literally just switched to 6.5 within the last half hour
15:10 agentzh i think only audreyt or cmarcelo can fix this kind of things. :)
15:11 * Limbic_Region is wondering if it is related to that
15:11 * agentzh has no clue
15:11 Limbic_Region I did try removing stuff from third-party as that has been the solution in the past
15:11 Limbic_Region so I am rebuilding now
15:12 agentzh realclean now...
15:12 Limbic_Region actually - I think removing stuff from 3rd party did fix it as it is beyond the point of failure last time
15:13 Limbic_Region if it fails this time, it will be for a new reason
15:13 agentzh hehe
15:13 * Limbic_Region sticks his tongue out at particle for being left behind in the dust
15:14 Limbic_Region is Win32 your primary environment agentzh?
15:14 agentzh LR: true
15:14 [particle] 6.4.1
15:14 kanru joined perl6
15:15 Limbic_Region so how much do you know about haskell - specifically as it relates to pugs internals
15:15 * [particle] cleans the puppy
15:15 * agentzh knows very little.
15:15 Limbic_Region particle - if you feel like throwing chicken bones - try this rmdir /s third-party; sv[kn] up; perl Makefile.PL; nmake fast
15:16 agentzh it seems that realclean helps.
15:16 Limbic_Region agentzh - not in this case
15:16 agentzh why?
15:16 Limbic_Region the realclean often misses files in 3rd party that are perpetually added after it is realized they should be included too
15:17 audreyt 6.4.1 cabal specific problem.
15:17 audreyt fixed.
15:17 Limbic_Region the entire 3rd party removal is overkill btw - I just didn't know which files in there needed to be removed
15:17 agentzh LR: i think i added many "rm" like commands to pugs' main Makefile.PL
15:17 Limbic_Region ahh
15:17 Limbic_Region audreyt - since you are either working in your sleep or not in bed yet - did you see my /msg
15:17 agentzh yes, removing the whole 3rd party is indeed overkill.
15:18 Limbic_Region yes, but cpu cycles are cheap - especially when I am wasting time chatting here
15:18 agentzh yay, i've successfully built my pugs!
15:18 svnbot6 r12661 | audreyt++ | * in GHC 6.4.1, the third-party/installed/ layout is different,
15:18 svnbot6 r12661 | audreyt++ |   so we need to probe to another place to put Judy .o files
15:18 svnbot6 r12661 | audreyt++ |   into the HsJudy .a file.
15:18 audreyt Limbic_Region: no I did not.
15:18 [particle] hih! 'nmake clean' fails due to 'line too long'
15:18 audreyt did you perhaps forget to identify to nickserv?
15:18 agentzh particle: "realclean"?
15:19 audreyt [particle]: svn up, rm -rf third-party, svn up third-party, make
15:19 audreyt [particle]: that sequence should work. sorry for not considering GHC 6.4.1
15:19 Limbic_Region no , but here it is just in case
15:19 Limbic_Region audreyt WRT the Win32 IO problem (t/examples/all_parse.t) - I noticed this in the build (using GHC 6.5) "Could not find module `System.Console.Readline':"
15:19 [particle] agentzh: switched from nmake 1.50 to 7.1... much better
15:20 agentzh particle: nmake 7.10.3077 here. :)
15:20 [particle] yes, me too
15:20 [particle] just forgot to set my environment
15:20 Alias_ nmake, ugh :/
15:20 agentzh heh
15:20 agentzh Alias!
15:20 Alias_ Have you tried with dmake?
15:20 Alias_ We're already swapping from nmake to dmake for Perl 5 on Win32
15:21 agentzh really?
15:21 Alias_ (since nmake is reporting to not work on Vista any more)
15:21 [particle] fabulous.
15:21 Alias_ At least, according to me Micrsoft Corporate Support flatmate
15:21 [particle] dmake?
15:21 agentzh microsoft is working on xmake.
15:21 Alias_ my
15:21 agentzh a ms guy told me that.
15:21 Limbic_Region audreyt - would the missing System.Console.Readline conceivably have anything to do with the IO problem or without Win32 you have no way of making that guess?
15:21 Alias_ What'sit do?
15:22 agentzh xmake is the next generation of nmake.
15:22 agentzh and the vc team is working on that.
15:22 Alias_ So it's going to break everything again?
15:22 Limbic_Region IOW - they are going to start shipping a make that works out of the box
15:22 agentzh presumbly. ;)
15:22 Alias_ And we'll need to download Visual Studio to use it? :)
15:22 Limbic_Region instead of the crappy 1.5
15:22 audreyt Limbic_Region: not going to metter
15:22 Limbic_Region k
15:22 Alias_ Limbic_Region: You could just use gnu make
15:23 agentzh the win32 version of gmake has a lot of bugs.
15:23 Limbic_Region Alias_ - I have 2 versions of nmake.exe, msys make, MinGW nmake32-make, and dmake
15:23 Alias_ As of the very latest 3.81 from last month, it incorporates the MinGW stuff by default
15:23 Limbic_Region I think I got it covered
15:23 agentzh i just can't remember how many bug reports i've sent to their mailing list.
15:23 Alias_ So it all works now
15:23 Alias_ The new Strawberry Perl alpha 2 will use it
15:23 Limbic_Region the hardest part with having all those makes is remembering to set your environment correctly so they don't step on each other
15:24 Limbic_Region for instance - if you have both mingw and msys in your path then building parrot using mingw doesn't work
15:24 Alias_ msys?
15:24 Alias_ Oh that's the "extra tools" or something right?
15:24 Limbic_Region yes, msys - the companion to MinGW
15:25 Limbic_Region http://www.mingw.org/ # second paragraph
15:25 lambdabot Title: MinGW - Home
15:25 Alias_ We've managed to avoid it so far
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15:26 Limbic_Region audreyt - GHC 6.5 on Win32 does not fix the heap problem fyi
15:26 Alias_ audreyt: Why aren't you alseep
15:26 Alias_ hang on, why aren't _I_ asleep
15:26 Limbic_Region she is
15:27 Limbic_Region it looks like pugs is going to successfully build using ghc 6.5 - as soon as it is finished I am off to find lunch
15:28 * [particle] rebuilds pugs
15:35 Limbic_Region yep - pugs successfully rebuilt
15:35 norageek joined perl6
15:35 * Limbic_Region svn ups just to be sure the latest checkin(s) didn't mess things up
15:37 agentzh gaal: does `make smoke' use Test::TAP::Model to generate a .yml file?
15:38 agentzh gaal: i think smartlinks.pl itself shouldn't serve as a test harness anyhow.
15:38 agentzh gaal: it should read an existing .yml data file and represent that in the HTML pages.
15:39 agentzh of course, the current tests.yml is far from ideal. The serialization method of Test::TAP::Model should be used. :)
15:40 agentzh ah, Test::TAP::Model looks very nice.
15:40 * Limbic_Region heads off to lunch
15:40 fglock joined perl6
15:44 agentzh gaal: can you manage to obtain a typical .yml file from a real smoke which i can work on directly?
15:44 * agentzh waves &
15:44 agentzh left perl6
15:52 buetow joined perl6
15:57 svnbot6 r12662 | agentz++ | [docs/feather/syn_index.html]
15:57 svnbot6 r12662 | agentz++ | - s/between Perl and Perl6/between Perl 5 and Perl 6/
16:04 Eimi joined perl6
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16:13 gaal Test::TAP::Model doesn't have a native serialization format. But tests.yml that yaml_harness produces just happens to be contain a node (called 'meat') that TTM knows how to construct an instance from (see new_with_struct, util/testgraph.pl line 25)
16:13 gaal i'll start a smoke to send you.
16:13 yhsuan joined perl6
16:14 gaal audreyt: doesn't your autobuild pugs run a smoke?
16:19 TimToady I just did a smoke.
16:19 lisppaste3 joined perl6
16:20 TimToady http://m19s28.vlinux.de/iblech/stuff/pugs-smokes/pugs-smoke-6.2.12-r12661-linux-normal--1156435179-1591--11984-11342-642-1381-1498-70--2926b33cc668bf72c27837926df9bf23.html
16:20 lambdabot Title: TAP Matrix - Thu Aug 24 15:58:13 2006 GMT
16:21 gaal TimToady: could you scp your tests.yml to feather or somewhere else agentzh can moose it?
16:21 TimToady It would be lovely if smokes were marked with deltas from the last smoke...
16:22 gaal yes!
16:22 Psyche^ joined perl6
16:22 gaal for a while someone put 'make test' outputs on a mediawiki
16:23 gaal and nothingmuch was working on aggregating smoke results, but I don't know if that included history
16:23 [particle] you want smokestat, similar to diffstat
16:23 TimToady I put tests.yml into http://wall.org/~larry/tests.yml
16:24 gaal thanks, TimToady
16:24 gaal the smokeserver currently works on client-rendered html matrices
16:25 gaal we should update to use Best Practical's code, which moves the rendering to the server side
16:25 gaal that way the serialized TTM data -- suitable for diffing/aggregating/otherwise moosing is all in one place
16:25 TimToady the rendering cranks the CPU for quite a while...
16:25 TimToady so you'd want to cache it.
16:25 gaal yeah, that should be fixed too :)
16:26 TimToady fixing is also good.  :)
16:26 gaal one WTDI (resulting in smaller html, too!) would be to bite the bullet and move to javascript
16:27 TimToady now where did I put that JS backend for pugs...
16:28 gaal gotta run off, bye folks
16:29 TimToady ich auch. &
16:30 TimToady moi aussi. &
16:30 TimToady watashi mo &
16:30 TimToady kai ego &
16:30 gaal הגם אתה, לארי?
16:31 TimToady heh
16:31 TimToady but you spelled it backwards.  :)
16:31 [particle] what interesting word usements you structure
16:32 neoesque joined perl6
16:32 TimToady anyway, going for a walk. &
16:37 Psyche^ is now known as Patterner
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16:58 dazjorz joined perl6
16:59 dazjorz <b_jonas> and then there's this other bot that prints titles of urls on #perl6
16:59 dazjorz lemme try that...
16:59 dazjorz http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&amp;q=random+text+string+that+shorten+will+shorten&amp;btnG=Google+Search
16:59 lambdabot Title: random text string that shorten will shorten - Google Search
16:59 dazjorz Yes! :D
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17:49 Limbic_Region wow - pugs on ghc 6.5 is MUCH faster
17:55 drrho joined perl6
17:56 Limbic_Region in the past, what did a plus in front of a variable in a sub signature indicate?
17:56 svnbot6 r12663 | fglock++ | * v6 - working Pugs/Grammar/P6Term.pm; can be tested by uncommenting
17:56 svnbot6 r12663 | fglock++ | the 'use' line at P::G::Expression.pm;
17:56 svnbot6 r12663 | fglock++ | - included the precompiled P6Term.pmc, which is needed to bootstrap
17:56 Limbic_Region that it was optional?
17:57 Limbic_Region s/signature/prototype/
17:57 Limbic_Region or not
18:00 Limbic_Region no one remembers?
18:07 Limbic_Region ?eval my $foo = <HellO>; $foo.lc
18:07 evalbot_12658 is now known as evalbot_12663
18:07 evalbot_12663 "hello"
18:17 svnbot6 r12664 | Limbic_Region++ | Parse issue: lc - fixed
18:26 svnbot6 r12665 | Limbic_Region++ | Fixed example not to assume being ran from .
18:26 svnbot6 r12666 | Limbic_Region++ | Added -Iblib6/lib as many examples use ext/
18:32 svnbot6 r12667 | Limbic_Region++ | Added 'p5' to directories skipped as examples include p5 code too
18:36 Limbic_Region ?eval my ($true,$false,$string,$defined,$last); sub infix:{qn'\\'} ($lhs,$rhs){ $rhs // $lhs }; $last //= [\\] ($true,$false,$string,$defined,$last); $last;
18:36 evalbot_12663 is now known as evalbot_12666
18:36 evalbot_12666 Error:  unexpected "[" expecting comment, "\\(" or term
18:36 * Limbic_Region thinks that is a pugs parse bug - can anyone confirm/deny?
18:38 [particle] does [\\] operate on a list, or array?
18:38 Limbic_Region particle - the infix definition is in the ?eval
18:38 TimToady actually, you can't have a [\\] reduce operator.
18:39 cognominal joined perl6
18:39 TimToady now that I think about it...
18:39 Limbic_Region not my code btw - I am trying to clean up examples
18:39 Limbic_Region TimToady - see examples/cookbook/01strings/01-02default-variables.pl
18:39 [particle] can {qn'\\'} be replaced with <'\\'> ??
18:39 Limbic_Region line 76
18:39 TimToady yes, I know, I saw it recently.
18:40 TimToady and it didn't even occur to me at the time that [\\] was illegal
18:40 TimToady [\...] is a metasyntax
18:40 Limbic_Region TimToady - also, what did it used to mean when there was a plus in front of a variable in a sub's signature?
18:40 TimToady that's the old named arg notation.  would be :$foo now
18:41 Limbic_Region k - will fix
18:41 fglock joined perl6
18:42 TimToady no, I'm wrong about [\\]
18:42 TimToady S03 says it chooses the infix operator in case of ambiguity
18:42 TimToady so that's a reduce of \\ if there is a \\ operator
18:43 TimToady and the triangular version would be [\\\]
18:43 TimToady the tricky thing is that the name of the \\ operator is infix:<\\\\>
18:43 TimToady since \ has to be backwhacked in <...>
18:44 Limbic_Region so why is that failing to parse correctly then I wonder
18:44 TimToady which is why I think I changed it to infix:{q:n'\\'}, if I recall
18:44 TimToady I think infix: and such aren't correctly modifying the parser currently.
18:45 TimToady It's not recognizing Unicode operators either.  I noticed the set operators didn't recognize ∩ and such
18:46 TimToady also, it's possible q:n isn't implemented yet...
18:46 svnbot6 r12668 | Limbic_Region++ | Changed old named arg +$var to :$var - TimToady++
18:46 TimToady no, it is implemented, yay
18:47 Limbic_Region I still can't get any incantation to parse as far as pugs is concerned so I am moving on
18:47 TimToady so is qn//
18:47 TimToady because [\\] is not going to be recognized if \\ isn't also.
18:48 TimToady anyway, I tried a lot of permutataions too.  I agree with moving on for now
18:49 TimToady one thing you could do is slurp the whole file in each time and examine it to see if it contains 'use v6', then eval (if that works).  That would get rid of the failures with p5 not be recognized.
18:49 TimToady alternately, go through and rename all the p5 code with -p5 in the name
18:49 TimToady but that'll probably break some things.
18:49 zgh joined perl6
18:50 Limbic_Region TimToady - I started to do s/script-p5.pl/script.p5/
18:50 Limbic_Region I wasn't sure of the proper way of removing the original file from the repo though so I left it alone
18:50 [particle] svn rm foo
18:50 Limbic_Region down to less than 30 examples not parsing
18:51 TimToady I think that .p5 was originally proposed, and for some reason was rejected.  don't remember
18:51 TimToady which is why we ended up with -p5.pl
18:52 Limbic_Region if you want white space between the hash name %hash and the key <key> you need to using a leading . right as in %letter    .{$hostname} = $letter; # ??
18:52 TimToady but if eval can be made to test parsability, then I don't see why slurping and checking for "use v6" wouldn't work.
18:52 TimToady and then we could test any text file, not just ones ending in a particular extension.
18:52 Limbic_Region true
18:53 TimToady (unix programmers being loathe to put .pl on a file just to make it executable for Windows folks...)
18:53 PerlJam TimToady: Have you listened to the recent perlcast interview with pmichaud?  There's some major kudos for you in there  :)
18:53 Limbic_Region ?eval my %hash = 1..4; %hash    .<3>;
18:53 evalbot_12666 is now known as evalbot_12668
18:53 evalbot_12668 Error:  unexpected "." expecting comment, operator, postfix conditional, postfix loop, postfix iteration, ";" or end of input
18:54 Limbic_Region that's a pugs parse bug isn't it?
18:54 Limbic_Region or has that whitespace thing changed too
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19:03 Limbic_Region at least 4 or 5 of the examples are blowing up with the pugs error: pugs: Control.Concurrent.STM.atomically was nested
19:03 cognominal left perl6
19:06 fglock mini-blog: http://use.perl.org/~fglock/journal/30742
19:06 lambdabot Title: Journal of fglock (5723)
19:07 cognominal joined perl6
19:10 TimToady PerlJam: uh, no, I haven't listened to it.  My head's already way too big.  What's the url?  :)
19:11 TimToady Limbic_Region: that would have to be written %hash\  .<3> now
19:11 Southen joined perl6
19:11 PerlJam For the audio it's http://www.perlcast.com/audio/Perlcast_Interview_032.mp3
19:11 mauke joined perl6
19:11 TimToady postfix ops *never* *ever* have whitespace before them
19:11 TimToady (but "unspace" doesn't count as whitespace)
19:12 PerlJam TimToady: in  the beginning pmichaud sings the praises of perl, and then the regex-refactor :)
19:13 Limbic_Region Thanks TimToady
19:13 svnbot6 r12669 | Limbic_Region++ | Changed my $test_file = shift || 'test' to @*ARGS[0]
19:13 Limbic_Region fixing a lot of these isn't difficult
19:14 Limbic_Region unfortunately that particular test is now resulting in pugs: Control.Concurrent.STM.atomically was nested - still going to check it in
19:15 TimToady well, we're probably s/atomically/contend/ at some point anyway, so don't sweat that too much.  Probably just running into an unimpl.
19:15 TimToady or is the test not actually saying "atomically"?
19:16 svnbot6 r12670 | Limbic_Region++ | changed %hash  .<key> to %hash\  .<key> TimToad++\nUnfortunately it now bombs with pugs: Control.Concurrent.STM.atomically was nested
19:19 bernhard joined perl6
19:21 [particle] shame on patrick. not once did he mention that pge needs tests :(
19:21 svnbot6 r12671 | Limbic_Region++ | Added FindBin::Dir as not guaranteed to be run from .
19:23 Limbic_Region TimToady - WRT atomically, I didn't dig in to the guts just running pugs -c
19:24 Limbic_Region is the correct syntax for a p5 require 'file.pl' still require 'file.pl'; # ??
19:24 PerlJam [particle]: you can mention it in your perlcast interview  :)
19:27 Limbic_Region anyone have any idea what the following LOC might be trying to do:  my $life = 10 .?. 20;
19:27 [particle] was that ever perl 6 syntax?
19:28 TimToady there's a prior def of infix:<.?.>
19:28 Limbic_Region dunno - I find it hard to keep up being a casual observer but it is used in more than one place in this example
19:28 TimToady again, that appears not to be working
19:28 Limbic_Region TimToady - you have already looked at all these then?
19:28 TimToady I've at least glanced at most of them.
19:29 Limbic_Region ok, will leave it then as it *should* work
19:29 Limbic_Region what about the require 'file.pl'; ?
19:29 cmarcelo joined perl6
19:29 Limbic_Region that's the only HOP example I haven't been able to fix (though you fixed most of them)
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19:35 svnbot6 r12672 | Limbic_Region++ | Changed old named arg +$var to :$var
19:38 svnbot6 r12673 | Limbic_Region++ | Used FindBin::Dir as not always run from . but require 'file.pl' still b0rk
19:42 Limbic_Region YAY - down to only 22 examples that aren't parsing
19:47 * Limbic_Region is going to count how many have that STM problem
19:47 TimToady it's odd--I've never seen the STM problem.
19:47 TimToady I wonder if it's Windows related...
19:48 Limbic_Region likely
19:48 [particle] what stm problem?
19:48 Limbic_Region Win32 is the redheaded stepchild in perl 6 development
19:49 Limbic_Region particle - many of the examples are having an stm problem - wait a sec and I will have a list
19:49 [particle] using pugs, or v6, or what?
19:49 Limbic_Region pugs
19:51 Limbic_Region particle - for instance, try pugs examples/nested_loops/coroutine.pl
19:53 [particle] wow, that barfed
19:54 Limbic_Region pugs: Control.Concurrent.STM.atomically was nested right?
19:54 [particle] no
19:54 Limbic_Region oh, what did you get?
19:55 [particle] no output to screen, just ms error reporter trying to send data to ms
19:55 [particle] exception code 0xc0000005
19:55 Limbic_Region wonder if that's a difference in ghc version
19:55 Limbic_Region *shrug*
19:56 [particle] *brr*
19:57 Limbic_Region particle - let me give you another example and see if it has the same exception
19:58 Limbic_Region pugs -c examples/vmethods/time.pl
19:58 [particle] same
19:59 Limbic_Region ok, so same problem - different output
20:03 pasteling "Limbic_Region" at 129.33.119.12 pasted "The following examples on Win32/MinGW/GHC 6.5 bomb with: "pugs: Control.Concurrent.STM.atomically was nested"" (6 lines, 204B) at http://sial.org/pbot/19259
20:03 Limbic_Region audreyt - apparently more Win32 only bugs
20:04 cmarcelo Limbic_Region: nested error here too (linux64 + ghc 6.5) on time.pl at least
20:06 Limbic_Region good to know though about all I am good for is identifying the bugs - not fixing them
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20:10 Limbic_Region well, I am content with examples for the moment anyhow - between TimToady and myself, more than half the original parse-fails are now passing
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22:15 svnbot6 r12674 | markstos++ | typo fix for 'minutes' and other minor phrasing cleanups on syn_index.html
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