Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2006-08-27

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:02 Limbic_Region joined perl6
00:11 araujo Juerd, yes
00:16 TreyHarris araujo: memory helps a *lot*.  i went from 512 to a gig and compile time dropped by half
00:17 TreyHarris but it still takes 35 or 45 minutes on my PPC 1.5
00:24 araujo yeah, more memory will do it
00:39 zgh joined perl6
01:06 markstos_ joined perl6
01:07 araujo hi markstos_
01:07 markstos_ hello araujo
01:07 araujo markstos_, just read perl6 will have function currying :-)
01:08 araujo that is another very haskellish feature , which i am happy to see here
01:09 markstos_ araujo: Where can I read more about how this will look and work in Perl6?
01:10 araujo markstos_, oh, i just read it as a new feature listed on the faqs of perl6 ... i still dont find any further explanation
01:10 svnbot6 r12749 | markstos++ | CGI.pm: Use method, not submethod, because we do what these behaviors to be inherited.
01:10 svnbot6 r12750 | markstos++ | ChangeLog updates
01:10 araujo i would like to, so, if anyone knows....
01:10 markstos_ Let me grep the specification..
01:11 dolmans markstos_: S06/Currying
01:12 markstos_ http://feather.perl6.nl/syn/S06.html#Currying
01:12 lambdabot Title: S06
01:12 markstos_ Jes. Just found it.
01:12 markstos_ s/Jes/Yes.
01:17 araujo cool
01:18 kanru joined perl6
01:30 * araujo starts the fun reading the code ..... "how to do this monadically? ..." :-)
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01:43 markstos_ I'm getting started on feather and syntax highlighting isn't working for me. I get an error on line 42 of syntax/syntax.vim: E216: No such group or event: filetypedetect BufRead
01:43 markstos_ That familiar to anyone ?
01:43 markstos_ I tried copying audrey's syntax/syntax.vim to my ~/.vim, but that didn't help.
01:45 markstos_ I also tried removing my own .vimrc, but I still get the issue, indicating some kind of system level problem.
01:45 * markstos_ ponders this
01:48 markstos_ Here's a bug report and fix for the issue. Perhaps it's related to the OS upgrade earlier today:
01:48 markstos_ http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=161862
01:56 ingy hola
01:57 ingy I just did a file transfer of a 10GB file....
01:57 ingy which took a long time
01:57 ingy the transfer stalled with a few MBs to go
01:57 ingy seriaously 99.999
01:58 ingy so what transfer util will recover from where I left off?
01:58 obra rsync may
01:58 ingy hi obra
02:00 ingy I hate mac so much I just went out and ought a new macbook to teach em a lesson
02:02 ingy I think I'll be integrating libyaml into the new YAML.pm
02:02 ingy it looks ready
02:03 ingy also thinking about a javascript port...
02:04 obra cool. How does libyaml differ from libsyck?
02:04 theorbtwo joined perl6
02:07 ingy obra: it's a streaming API
02:08 ingy it's built the way that yaml tools were indented to be built
02:08 ingy ;)
02:09 ingy libyaml - data the way that ingy indented it
02:10 ingy the other difference is that it probably is much closer to spec correct, and has much better error reporting (I'm guessing)
02:11 ingy libsyck is some whimsical approximation of YAML 1.0
02:12 obra   cool.
02:12 cognominal joined perl6
02:12 obra streaming yaml would be very interesting
02:13 ingy well it's not just for streaming
02:13 ingy it's just that the low level (read hard) stuff is streaming
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02:33 markstos_ Why doesn't this work as expected?
02:33 markstos_ ?eval sub foo(%h) { say %h.perl } foo(1=>2,2=>3)'
02:33 evalbot_12750 Error:  unexpected "'" expecting ":", term postfix, comment, operator, postfix conditional, postfix loop, postfix iteration, ";" or end of input
02:33 markstos_ ?eval sub foo(%h) { say %h.perl } foo(1=>2,2=>3)
02:33 evalbot_12750 Error: No compatible subroutine found: "&foo"
02:34 ayrnieu ?eval sub foo(%h) { say %h.perl }; foo(1=>2,2=>3)
02:34 evalbot_12750 Error: No compatible subroutine found: "&foo"
02:36 TreyHarris ?sub foo(Pair $h, Pair $y) { say ($h, $y).perl }; foo(1=>2,2=>3)
02:36 lambdabot Parse error
02:36 TreyHarris ?eval sub foo(Pair $h, Pair $y) { say ($h, $y).perl }; foo(1=>2,2=>3)
02:36 evalbot_12750 OUTPUT[((1 => 2), (2 => 3)) ] Bool::True
02:36 markstos_ It works if I define 1=>2,2=>3 as a hash explicitly has a hash beforehand, and pass the hash in.
02:36 TreyHarris you're not passing in a hash
02:36 TreyHarris you're passing in two pairs
02:37 markstos_ But that's the typical way to pass in named arguments, right?
02:37 markstos_ Should I be defining each known key of the hash in the subroutine sig ?
02:37 TreyHarris you have two problems
02:38 TreyHarris one, you have to make your hash slurpy:
02:38 TreyHarris ?eval sub foo(*%hash) { say %hash.perl }; foo(1=>2,2=>3)
02:38 evalbot_12750 OUTPUT[{} ] Bool::True
02:38 * markstos_ thinks he has 2 problems, plus the barking dog across the street that won't shut up.
02:38 TreyHarris but that still doesn't work
02:38 TreyHarris because pairs of random data can't possibly be named args
02:38 markstos_ I tried the slurpy. That didn't work.
02:38 TreyHarris they have to be identifiers:
02:38 TreyHarris ?eval sub foo(*%hash) { say %hash.perl }; foo(a=>2,b=>3)
02:38 evalbot_12750 OUTPUT[{("a" => 2), ("b" => 3)} ] Bool::True
02:38 TreyHarris there.
02:39 markstos_ What's the difference between that and the version above? you changed the key names?
02:39 TreyHarris yes
02:40 TreyHarris '1' and '2' aren't valid identifiers
02:40 markstos_ why would that make a difference?
02:40 markstos_ Ah.
02:40 TreyHarris named params must be idents
02:40 markstos_ idents?
02:40 TreyHarris identifiers
02:40 markstos_ Anyway, my keys in my applications don't need to be numbers.
02:41 ayrnieu ?eval [1=>2, '1'=>2]
02:41 evalbot_12750 [(1 => 2), ("1" => 2)]
02:42 TreyHarris ?eval %(1=>2, '1'=>3)
02:42 evalbot_12750 {("1" => 3),}
02:43 ayrnieu that's not actually intended, is it?
02:44 TreyHarris that's correct behavior
02:44 TreyHarris of a default hash
02:44 TreyHarris because 1 and '1' are the same hash keys
02:44 zgh i though hashes in perl6 dodn't automatically stringify the keys
02:45 ayrnieu ?eval %(1=>2, '2'=>3)
02:45 zgh s/dodn't/didn't/
02:45 evalbot_12750 {("1" => 2), ("2" => 3)}
02:45 zgh that's kind of disappointing
02:45 zgh where are the key-type-agnostic hashes in perl6
02:46 TreyHarris zgh: they do currently in pugs.  let me consult the synopses, but i'd expect that to be the default behavior, it would be extraordinarily surprising to perl 5 programmers.
02:46 TreyHarris i believe that .SKID controls (but .SKID is currently unimplemented)
02:46 ayrnieu a perl5 programmer would expect scalars, yes.
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02:47 TreyHarris markstos_: to continue what i was saying first:
02:47 TreyHarris ?eval sub foo($a?, *%hash) { say %hash.perl }; foo(a=>2,b=>3)
02:47 evalbot_12750 OUTPUT[{("b" => 3),} ] Bool::True
02:47 zgh i'm a perl5 programmer, but i have used languages where hash keys were immutable objects or whtever instead of hashes
02:47 zgh it's not THAT surprising
02:48 ayrnieu zgh - yes, yes, but a perl5 programmer would expect scalars to act like scalars.
02:48 zgh instead of hashes?
02:48 zgh i meant instead of strings sorry lol
02:48 zgh well numbers are scalars
02:48 zgh (some) objects are, yes
02:48 TreyHarris notice the first key was not output, because it was bound to $a.  slurpy hashes are meant to grab all named parameters, so only parameters that could be otherwise named are grabbed
02:48 zgh ?
02:49 zgh i can't say i ever found perl5 hashes lacking...i think the theorist in me likes having whatver types I want in a key
02:50 ayrnieu zgh - as long as one of those types is 'scalar', everyone is happy.
02:50 zgh ayrnieu: how very true!
02:53 TreyHarris zgh: according to S09, you write "my %hash{*}" to indicate that you want to accept keys of any type
02:53 TreyHarris otherwise they are strings
02:53 TreyHarris this is not yet implemented.
02:54 zgh TreyHarris: hey cool! thanks for looking that up.
02:54 TreyHarris the default hash is "my Any %hash{Str}"
02:54 zgh TreyHarris: okay that makes a lot of sense.
02:55 zgh not at all surprising to a perl5 programmer while still thrilling the theorists. yay!
02:55 TreyHarris yes-- TimToady++ is very good at doing that
02:56 TreyHarris kind of like how the issue of whether failing subs should throw exceptions or return undef was resolved
02:57 TreyHarris they return undefs that autothrow exceptions if you try to use them for any other than testing for truth or definedness
02:58 TreyHarris so you can still do if thingThatMightThrow() -> $x { $x.useIt() }
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03:33 pasteling "markstos_" at 12.176.101.89 pasted "bug? multi-dispatch works differently for subs and methods when passing a scalar when a slurpy has is expected" (31 lines, 511B) at http://sial.org/pbot/19291
03:34 markstos_ The method dispatching in that paste seems wrong. Even though I call foo(1), I get dispatched to foo (), which explicitly says it has no arguments. (How do I check the arguments when the signature says they are none?)
03:35 TreyHarris heh, it just segfaults me :-)
03:35 markstos_ Doh.
03:36 TreyHarris the sub gets "in hash sub but not a hash", and the method gets "none"?
03:36 markstos_ Yep.
03:36 TreyHarris oh
03:36 TreyHarris yes
03:36 markstos_ yes, bug?
03:36 TreyHarris that's correct, though admittedly surprising
03:36 * markstos_ sighs.
03:36 TreyHarris remember, like in perl 5, methods are subs with an extra argument for the invocant
03:37 markstos_ Ok.
03:37 TreyHarris MMD will never dispatch to a nonconformant subroutine.
03:37 TreyHarris so it tries to figure out what's most conformant
03:37 TreyHarris yes, it *is* a bug now that i think about it
03:37 TreyHarris but it's trying to do the right thing
03:37 markstos_ That makes more sense.
03:37 markstos_ ..that it's a bug.
03:38 markstos_ How would I examine the args in method foo (), since they aren't in the signature ?
03:39 zgh joined perl6
03:40 TreyHarris in the first you have the signature (Foo:), and in the second, (Foo: Any Hash{*}).  you called it with (Foo: Int).  it should have failed, but instead it dispatched the first.  the second time you had signatures () and (Any Hash{*}), and you tried to pass (Int).  it should have failed as well.
03:40 TreyHarris i think it has something to do with this:
03:40 TreyHarris ?eval multi sub foo ($a) { say "yep" }; foo(3)
03:40 evalbot_12750 OUTPUT[yep ] Bool::True
03:41 TreyHarris ?eval multi sub foo () { say "yep" }; foo(3)
03:41 evalbot_12750 Error: No compatible subroutine found: "&foo"
03:41 markstos_ Those results look reasonable.
03:42 TreyHarris guess it was fixed since i last tried it :-)
03:42 TreyHarris hm
03:42 markstos_ It's the method case that seems b0rked.
03:42 TreyHarris well, they're both borked because it's not reasonable to set a hash to the value 1
03:42 markstos_ In may case, I think I think I'll leave that test failing in the CGI::App suite, and note that I think it's due to a pugs bug.
03:43 TreyHarris but even if it's just doing mmd by arg counting, yes, it's borked
03:44 zgh joined perl6
03:44 markstos_ All I wanted to do was die with an nice error about using the wrong number of args, but I can't do that, because it it's dispatched to foo(), where I don't know how to examine the args, since they aren't in the signature....
03:44 TreyHarris introspection is very lacking at present.
03:44 TreyHarris audreyt keeps saying that's her first priority after captures and the object model
03:45 markstos_ So far I haven't run into a show stopper for my own work, just some mysterious detours...
03:46 * TreyHarris sighs
03:46 TreyHarris I've let my pugs get almost a week out of date
03:46 TreyHarris and I wanted to write a little explorer to help me look at changes in an easier format than raw svn commands
03:46 TreyHarris but pugs is segfaulting or giving me "illegal hardware instruction" in my explorer
03:47 markstos_ Ug.
03:48 TreyHarris well, it won't be too hard to quickly translate to perl 5
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05:12 audreyt Limbic_Region: cause of win32 sudden death found
05:12 audreyt max limit of concurrent open dirhandle exhausted
05:12 audreyt if you print $dir now, then eager evaluation guarantees that dirhandle can be closed early
05:12 audreyt if you don't, then the system has to maintain those dirstream in thunk
05:13 xinming audreyt: could you please fix the q:x { } bug? :-/  q:x won't do right thing if the process data contains utf8. :-/
05:14 kasei joined perl6
05:14 audreyt sure. a sec
05:14 xinming audreyt++
05:18 kasei can anyone give me some help using PCR?
05:21 audreyt kasei: post to p6c maybe? or nopaste the error
05:22 kasei well, there's no error to paste... i suspect i just have some misunderstanding about p6 rules.
05:23 kasei it's something that would be super easy in p5 regex, but i'd like to use subrules, and just not working as i expect.
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05:28 audreyt nopaste the code then?
05:28 svnbot6 r12751 | audreyt++ | * UTF16 Little-Endian detection was typo'ed.
05:30 kasei code snippet here: http://kasei.us/temp/pcr.pl
05:30 kasei the relativeURI rule failes to match more than one character. i imagine it's a trivial mistake...
05:31 audreyt looking
05:33 xinming audreyt: :-/ I think the bug is still there.
05:33 xinming audreyt: q:x { echo 你好 }; would return nothing...
05:34 xinming pugs t/builtins/quote_basic.t
05:38 audreyt xinming: sure, it's fixed, I'm committing
05:38 xinming audreyt: thanks
05:39 ayrnieu (hey, neat, that Chinese actually displays here.)
05:40 xinming ayrnieu: we use utf-8, so, displaying multi-byte characters should be no problem.
05:41 xinming ayrnieu: and BTW, in perl6, there would be a native language dialect probably... :-)
05:41 xinming ayrnieu: which means, we can write perl 6 in our own language.. :-P
05:45 audreyt what, you mean Perl is not your native language?
05:45 audreyt :)
05:45 audreyt kasei: sorry, still installing PCR dependencies on this win32
05:47 kasei no worries. thanks for taking the time.
05:49 xinming audreyt: No, I mean, we can write a perl 6 dialect which replaces sub and say with native language keywords, I've ever found an interesting program which is written in Chinese in perl 5 from you. :-)
05:49 audreyt er, yeah, that must be Lingua::Sinica::PerlYuYan
05:49 audreyt btw, r12752 is for you :)
05:50 xinming thanks
05:50 svnbot6 r12752 | audreyt++ | * qx// now works with non-ASCII characters as well, promted by xinming++
05:51 audreyt kasei: the moose moosed because <uchar>* assumes <ws> between each <uchar>
05:51 audreyt I'm not sure if that should be the case, actually
05:52 audreyt but it is currently the case.
05:52 audreyt so if you change Rule->install to Regex->install
05:52 audreyt (also, you can put <?uchar> instead of <uchar>)
05:52 audreyt since you are capturing the outer sum anyway
05:53 audreyt then it'd work.
05:53 xinming How can I see the difference you edit in src? I mean with your last commit...
05:54 kasei audreyt: thanks!
05:54 xinming hmm, Ok, I'll try myself. :-/
05:55 audreyt svn diff -r 12751:12752
05:55 audreyt like that?
05:55 audreyt kasei: np :)
05:55 * audreyt goes back playing with opendir
05:56 audreyt svk desc 12752 # for svk people
05:57 xinming thanks
05:57 xinming found that...
05:57 audreyt (bbiab)
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07:03 agentzh markstos: pugs' docs/feather/syn_index.html maps to feather's ~agentzh/syn/index.html just because the pugs working copy on feather is living in Audrey's home where i don't have write access. you know, i have to generate *.html into syn/ using smartlinks.pl. :)
07:07 agentzh markstos: now that you have a feather account, feel free to do the pod ==> html conversion yourself. :) you may check the script ~agentzh/update to see an example.
07:08 agentzh markstos: btw, thanks for your recent work on the documentation! :D
07:09 * agentzh ponders the idea of writing a util/get-irc-logs.pl
07:10 agentzh colabti.de's search page is not satisfactory at all.
07:17 gaal audreyt: moose! how did you diagnose the dirhandle problem? just curious :)
07:28 gaal $client &
07:34 agentzh does anyone here often run "make smoke" on feather?
07:35 agentzh i just want to reuse his/her tests.yml to render the .html files
07:36 svnbot6 r12753 | trey++ | [syn_index.html]
07:36 svnbot6 r12753 | trey++ | Fixed spelling.
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07:48 svnbot6 r12754 | agentz++ | [util/smartlinks.pl]
07:48 svnbot6 r12754 | agentz++ | - minor fixes
08:05 elmex joined perl6
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08:42 agentzh has anyone done something interesting with the #perl6 logs?
08:43 xerox joined perl6
08:46 ayrnieu agentzh - interesting like http://ortdotlove.net/c.html ?
08:46 lambdabot Title: C @ Freenode stats by orbitz
08:46 agentzh looking
08:47 agentzh ah, yeah!
08:48 agentzh it was generated by the pisg program...ah, nice~~
08:48 agentzh ayrnieu: thanks!
08:49 ayrnieu welcome :-)  That page is pretty cute.
08:50 agentzh heh, it's also written in perl. :D
08:50 agentzh i'd like to generate a stats page for #perl6. :)
08:51 agentzh we have all the log files on colabti.de. :)
08:52 xerox We have those for #haskell too ! :D http://www.cse.unsw.edu.au/~dons/irc/haskell-06.html
08:52 lambdabot Title: #haskell @ freenode.org stats by dons
08:52 xerox agentzh: add a patch for `the most used suffix', it'll be `++' here :D
08:53 ayrnieu xerox - tibbe also makes sailors blush, 0.0% of the time.
08:53 agentzh aye
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09:03 svnbot6 r12755 | agentz++ | [util]
09:03 svnbot6 r12755 | agentz++ | - added get-irc-logs.pl which can download log files of
09:03 svnbot6 r12755 | agentz++ |   the specified channel (defaulting to #perl6) from
09:03 svnbot6 r12755 | agentz++ |   colabti.de
09:03 svnbot6 r12756 | agentz++ | [util/get-irc-logs.pl]
09:03 svnbot6 r12756 | agentz++ | - minor output format fixes
09:04 agentzh bbiab &
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10:18 Aankh|Clone is now known as Aankhen``
10:22 svnbot6 r12757 | kudra++ | Placeholder
10:51 clkao audreyt: svk gone crazy or?
10:58 svnbot6 r12758 | kudra++ | Weekly summary
10:59 ludan joined perl6
11:01 svnbot6 r12759 | agentz++ | [util/get-irc-logs.pl]
11:01 svnbot6 r12759 | agentz++ | - commented out debugging code
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11:09 svnbot6 r12760 | kudra++ | Spell checked
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11:23 agentzh TimToady: it seems to me that you're running pugs smoke regularly (thought also manually). would you be kind enough to always put your latest (compressed) tests.yml on a fixed position on the web?
11:24 agentzh *though
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11:33 Juerd http://feather.perl6.nl/~juerd/stats/
11:33 lambdabot Title: #perl6 @ SomeIRCNet stats by MAINTAINER
11:33 Juerd I have no idea how to keep it updated, though. It doesn't say that :)
11:38 agentzh ah!
11:39 Juerd Long live bash scripting, by the way. It's so easy to do complicated things if you have a lot of small but incredibly useful tools, and can glue them together.
11:40 agentzh *nod*
11:40 Juerd for url in `curl | perl -nle`; do perl -e'system "wget -O ... ..."'; done
11:40 Juerd (roughly)
11:41 Juerd A Windows users would first start looking for a tool to download everything on a page, and spend at least 10 minutes on just that.
11:41 Juerd s/users/user/
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11:46 * gaal lols at some appropriate "random" quotes on that stats page:
11:47 gaal eg. putter: "anyone willing to hear a mmd story?"
11:47 gaal and TimToady: "there's a one-word metaform from Mr Rogers: "Can you say ___?""
11:47 agentzh hehe
11:48 svnbot6 r12761 | kudra++ | Added one additional location to distributions
11:48 wilx` is now known as wilx
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12:01 agentzh ?eval while 1 {}
12:02 agentzh ?uptime
12:02 lambdabot uptime: 2 days, 7 hours, 59 minutes and 49 seconds
12:02 svnbot6 Running for 531838 seconds.
12:02 evalbot_12761 (no output)
12:02 evalbot_12761 Running for 251480 seconds.
12:02 agentzh heh
12:08 baest joined perl6
12:11 agentzh ?eval my $a = 3
12:11 agentzh ?eval $a + 4
12:11 evalbot_12761 \3
12:11 evalbot_12761 Error: Undeclared variable: "$a"
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12:21 xinming :-/
12:22 xinming I've specified p6bot to go into perlchina... :'(
12:22 xinming try again... :-/
12:24 agentzh diakopter: are you working on trypugs right now?
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12:35 agentzh diakopter: are you working on trypugs right now?
12:36 markstos_ Juerd++ ... he just fixed vim on feather.
12:36 Juerd :)
12:36 Juerd markstos++  # told me how
12:36 markstos_ Interwebthingie++ had the answer
12:53 markstos_ This is unexpected. If I quote my key, the args disappear. If I leave the key bare, they work:
12:53 markstos_ ?eval sub foo (*%args) { warn %args.perl; } foo(  a => 'b' ); foo( 'a' => 'b' );
12:53 evalbot_12761 Error: Cannot cast from VUndef to Handle (VHandle)
12:53 markstos_ Oh. That's not what I get on feather...
12:54 markstos_ Let's see which one is the problem.
12:54 markstos_ ?eval sub foo (*%args) { warn %args.perl; } foo(  a => 'b' );
12:54 evalbot_12761 Error: Cannot cast from VUndef to Handle (VHandle)
12:54 markstos_ ?eval sub foo (*%args) { warn %args.perl; } foo( 'a' => 'b' );
12:54 evalbot_12761 Error: Cannot cast from VUndef to Handle (VHandle)
12:55 markstos_ Both! That seems perhaps /more/ broken.
12:55 markstos_ Passing arbitrary name/value pairs to a subroutine has proven more difficult than I imagined!
12:57 agentzh ?eval sub foo (*%a) { warn %a.perl } foo(:a<b>)
12:57 markstos_ So how /does/ one pass arbitrary name/value pairs to a subroutine in Perl6?
12:57 evalbot_12761 Error: Cannot cast from VUndef to Handle (VHandle)
12:58 markstos_ Let me try that on feather.
12:58 agentzh markstos_: it used to work. :/
12:59 markstos_ That works here! Let me check the pugs revision I'm using.
12:59 markstos_ r12728
12:59 agentzh i've used slurpy hash args in pugs' Test.pm.
12:59 markstos_ So something broke recently, it seems
13:00 agentzh and all the tests in t/02-test-pm/5-todo.t passed at that time.
13:00 agentzh not sure about the status right now.
13:01 agentzh audreyt and gaal are currently working on this part, say captures and signatures.
13:01 * markstos_ backs up working pugs on feather for fear of impeding breakage.
13:01 agentzh so it may be temporarily broken. :)
13:02 markstos_ Where is the evalbot actually running pugs from ?
13:02 Juerd sub foo (Pair *@pairs) { ... }
13:02 agentzh ~audreyt/pugs
13:02 Juerd When I call foo with a list of pairs, do they need to be in double parens?
13:03 Juerd Or is there another way to break named argument parsing?
13:03 Juerd foo <== foo => 'bar', perhaps?
13:04 markstos_ That doesn't seem right. That's where /I/ was just testing from, and a different revision and result were reported.
13:04 markstos_ On feather /usr/bin/pugs is a symlink to ~audreyt/pugs/pugs
13:04 markstos_ Anyway, the :a<b> syntax is what I needed. You made my tests pass, agentzh!
13:04 markstos_ agentzh++
13:05 agentzh markstos_: ahh, nice to hear that. :)
13:05 agentzh bedtime &
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14:05 svnbot6 r12762 | kudra++ | Although this week is already posted, URL corrected for next week
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14:31 diakopter agentzh: sort of
14:31 diakopter oh; gone to bed.
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14:40 nothingmuch audreyt: can i have an invite to pugs.blogs.com? id like to poke around the interface to see how stuff could be automated for ann
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16:14 svnbot6 r12763 | nothingmuch++ | template for YAML summaries
16:16 Teratogen perl 6 should qualify for ISO9000
16:19 wilx Why?
16:19 wilx Isn't that the standard about quality?
16:19 Teratogen so it can be used to write software for medical devices, etc.
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16:24 nothingmuch Teratogen: it makes no sense, that's for businesses
16:24 nothingmuch IIRC
16:24 nothingmuch more related to production
16:24 nothingmuch and to management
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16:28 Teratogen I guess so, then
16:31 xinming hmm, anyone here build pugs on feather?
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18:21 svnbot6 r12764 | gaal++ | * sub_arg_errors.t - add four failing test cases (in preparation for
18:21 svnbot6 r12764 | gaal++ |   a proper Signature parser)
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19:11 svnbot6 r12765 | nothingmuch++ | svn props for summaries
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19:30 TimToady agentzh: see wall.org:~larry/tests.yml.gz for latest
19:31 TimToady I'm also looking into inserting the data as a blob comment at the end of smoke.html so it'll just get uploaded with the smoke.
19:31 TimToady bbl &
19:44 marksto1 It'd be nice of S09 provided a reference to what PDL means in this context. I suspect it's different than the "Perl Data Language", located at http://pdl.perl.org/
19:44 lambdabot Title: PDL - The Perl Data Language
19:50 Juerd changes topic to: Please check your feather e-mail | http://search.cpan.org/dist/SVN-Mirror/ | paste: http://sial.org/pbot/perl6 | pugs.blogs.com | pugscode.org | pugs.kwiki.org | http://www.treehugger.com/files/th_images/paradigm.jpg
19:51 Juerd TimToady: You too, please
19:52 gaal Juerd: ask people to ack it if you want to be sure they'd seen it...
19:52 Juerd gaal: I can tell just by looking at directories.
19:52 Juerd gaal: Either:
19:53 Juerd * The message has been forwarded. I assume people check their normal email regularly.
19:53 Juerd * The message has been read, it is either deleted or in ~/Maildir/cur
19:53 Juerd * The message has not yet been read, it is in ~/Maildir/new
19:55 gaal asking for active ACK raises the likelyhood of action. :)
19:56 gaal also, that way you don't have to worry they missed it (filtering, oversight) even though it was forwarded
19:56 gaal bbl&
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20:27 araujo hello
20:27 marksto1 Hello araujo
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20:31 araujo hi markstos_
20:31 araujo :-)
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21:21 markstos_ Should this be a syntax error instead?
21:21 markstos_ ?eval warn @.perl
21:22 evalbot_12765 Error: Cannot cast into Hash: VRef <Sub:0x896318c>
21:22 Juerd Not a syntax error. Rather, that it can't call .perl on the current invocant for there is none.
21:23 markstos_ Ah. Does that mean that .method is the same as self.method ?
21:23 Juerd No, .method is the same as $_.method
21:23 Juerd But $.method is the same as self.method
21:23 Juerd As is @.method, but then with array semantics
21:23 markstos_ Ok. I see the consistency there.
21:24 b_jonas "$.method"? seriously?
21:25 * markstos_ is testing it now.
21:26 markstos_ It doesn't work yet.
21:26 markstos_ ?eval class Foo { method a { $.b } method b { say "worked!" } } my $a = Foo.new; $a.a;
21:26 evalbot_12765 \undef
21:26 markstos_ If you change "$.b" to self.b, it works.
21:27 b_jonas or just to ".b" I guess
21:27 markstos_ ?eval class Foo { method a { .b } method b { say "worked!" } } my $a = Foo.new; $a.a;
21:27 evalbot_12765 OUTPUT[worked! ] Bool::True
21:27 Juerd b_jonas: Yes, seriously. $.method, @.method, and %.method will call self.method.
21:27 markstos_ So, $_ is set to the invocant there ? I guess so.
21:28 Juerd Which is very useful, given that "has $.foo;", "has @.foo;", and "has %.foo;" create an accessor method called "foo"
21:28 markstos_ Juerd, but it doesn't work now if it's true, as my example showed. self.b.
21:28 markstos_ s/self.b//
21:28 Juerd Then you can access it via $.foo, @.foo, and %.foo respectively. Useful, isn't it?
21:28 Juerd markstos_: I speak about Perl 6, not Pugs.
21:29 markstos_ You mean, the spec, not the implementation.
21:29 Juerd Pugs lags behind the specs, naturally :)
21:29 markstos_ Sure.
21:29 markstos_ dinner guests. &
21:29 Juerd Though this has been specced for quite a while
21:29 Juerd Pugs development has been about internal changes the past time
21:33 b_jonas what? so $.foo means both a scalar instance variable and a method call of self?
21:34 * b_jonas looks up in S12
21:37 b_jonas I don't understand. Does this mean that when you declare a public attribute to a class with 'has $.foo;' then a public accessor method of name foo is also created?
21:38 Juerd b_jonas: No, only a method call.
21:38 Juerd b_jonas: With "has", it is special syntax.
21:38 Juerd b_jonas: Yes.
21:38 b_jonas ah, I see
21:38 b_jonas "Public attributes have a secondary sigil of "dot", indicating the automatic generation of an accessor method of the same name. "
21:39 b_jonas I should read before I ask
21:39 Juerd And if you don't use the dot, the method is not created, and you have a normal variable, only instance-specific.
21:39 Juerd Also known as "private"
21:41 b_jonas I think I'll like this syntax
21:41 b_jonas It's perl6ish.
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22:00 araujo [1 .. Inf][3] .... shouldn't that work?
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22:14 cmarcelo araujo: I think 1..Inf isnt working yet..
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23:50 araujo cmarcelo, ok .. but it is supposed to work right?
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23:54 cmarcelo araujo: since [1..5][3] works, I think with Inf it should work too.. but isn't clear to me yet the difference in p6 between (1..5) and [1..5], if exists..
23:55 avar you can do @( @array[1..5][3] ) ?
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23:57 cmarcelo > [1..5][3]
23:57 lambdabot   The function `[1 .. 5]' is applied to one arguments,
23:57 lambdabot  but its type `[...
23:57 cmarcelo ?eval [1..5][3]
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23:57 evalbot_12765 \4
23:57 cmarcelo ?eval (1..5)[3]
23:57 evalbot_12765 \4

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