Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2006-09-01

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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00:33 markstos I copied the first post over to pugs.blogs.com: http://pugs.blogs.com/  I'll continue to copy my Perl6 blogging stuff over there from my use.perl.org journal, and then send stuff directly to the pugs blog after that.
00:43 TreyHarris markstos: so i should take your use perl journal off my newsreader lest i get duplicates? :-)
00:43 TreyHarris audreyt: are you around?
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00:48 markstos TreyHarris: it's a compliment to know I'm in someone's newsreader. Once I catch up with a few current things, I'll post Perl6 stuff just to the Pugs blog,and other perl stuff back at use.perl, so you won't have to suffer through duplicates for long.
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01:10 markstos How do I define an array of hashes in Perl6? I didn't see an example in S09
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01:17 TreyHarris markstos: define?  my Array @array of Hash, I'd assume
01:18 markstos The "of" is not recognized yet there.
01:18 markstos I'm looking for something like my @a = ({ a => b}, { c => 'd' } );
01:18 TreyHarris yeah, the typing tests mostly fail
01:18 TreyHarris that should work
01:19 TreyHarris that's why i was trying to raise audrey actually
01:19 TreyHarris because:
01:19 TreyHarris ?eval my @l = ({d => 'a'}, {d => ''}, {d => 'cd'});  @l.perl
01:19 evalbot_12913 is now known as evalbot_12915
01:19 evalbot_12915 "[\{(\"d\" => \"a\"),}, \{(\"d\" => \"\"),}, \{(\"d\" => \"cd\"),}]"
01:19 TreyHarris that works on evalbot
01:20 TreyHarris but it doesn't work on my pugs build at the same rev
01:20 TreyHarris it hangs for about four minutes, eating up cpu and mem, and then segfaults
01:21 markstos ?eval my @a = ({ a => 'b', a2 => 'b3' }, { c => 'd' } ); for @a -> %h { say %h.perl; };
01:21 evalbot_12915 OUTPUT[{("a\tb" => ("a2" => "b3")),} {("c\td" => undef),} ] undef
01:21 markstos Not quite right.
01:23 TreyHarris ?eval my @a = ({ a => 'b', a2 => 'b3' }, { c => 'd' } ); @a.perl
01:23 evalbot_12915 "[\{(\"a\" => \"b\"), (\"a2\" => \"b3\")}, \{(\"c\" => \"d\"),}]"
01:24 markstos I also tried %() instead of {}, which didn't work either.
01:24 TreyHarris ?eval my @a = [{ a => 'b', a2 => 'b3' }, { c => 'd' } ]; @a.perl
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01:24 evalbot_12915 "[[\{(\"a\" => \"b\"), (\"a2\" => \"b3\")}, \{(\"c\" => \"d\"),}],]"
01:24 TreyHarris huh, that's bizarre
01:25 markstos ?eval my @a; push @a, %( a => 'b', a2 => 'b3' ); push @a, %( c => 'd', c2 => 'd2' ); for @a -> %h { say %h.perl; };
01:25 evalbot_12915 OUTPUT[{("a" => "b"),} {("a2" => "b3"),} {("c" => "d"),} {("c2" => "d2"),} ] undef
01:26 markstos So, the hashes are always getting broken up into subhashes.
01:27 markstos I'm not sure how to be more explicit about what I mean.
01:28 markstos ?eval my @a; my $b = %( a => 'b', a2 => 'b3' ); push @a, $b; my $c = %( c => 'd', c2 => 'd2' ); push @a, $c; for @a -> %h { say %h.perl; };
01:28 evalbot_12915 OUTPUT[{("a\tb" => ("a2" => "b3")),} {("c\td" => ("c2" => "d2")),} ] undef
01:31 markstos Does Perl6 have a builtin way to read YAML, or just to produce it?
01:55 weinig|bbl is now known as weinig
02:04 audreyt markstos: read yaml?
02:05 audreyt ?eval eval("1: 2", :lang<yaml>)
02:05 evalbot_12915 {("1" => "2"),}
02:05 audreyt like that?
02:05 markstos Whoa. Call.
02:05 markstos Cool. :)
02:05 audreyt =)
02:05 audreyt yaml is pretty much the B:: of Pugs
02:05 audreyt I'd like to make SQLite the DBM of Pugs as well...
02:06 markstos I was thinking of using yaml as a back door to solve my array of hashes creation problem.
02:06 * audreyt just wrote a GC in p5+SQLite for $job... going to run now
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02:07 audreyt bbiab :)
02:08 audreyt markstos: give your blogpost a title?
02:10 markstos Sorry I missed that. Doing now.
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02:11 markstos done. published now.
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02:43 peacock any pugs people around who can  help me with a build error?
02:43 markstos I figured out the issue with declaring an array of hashes. The declaration was correct, but it is necessary to iterate over it with 'for each' instead of just 'for', which I don't fully understand yet.
02:43 markstos ?eval my $quiz = ( { a => 1, b => 2 }, { a => 1, b => 3 },); for each($quiz) -> %h { say %h.perl; }
02:43 evalbot_12915 OUTPUT[{("a" => 1), ("b" => 2)} {("a" => 1), ("b" => 3)} ] undef
02:44 markstos peacock: I'm here but I doubt I'll be much help with a build error.
02:44 peacock well i'll throw it out anyway
02:45 peacock i get an error when trying to build libHSPugs.a
02:45 peacock it says illegal option, then  no archive members specified
02:45 peacock any ideas?
02:46 audreyt nopaste the whole buildlog?
02:46 peacock by it  i mean the 'ar' command
02:46 audreyt and trace util/build_pugs
02:46 peacock ok one sec
02:46 markstos Here comes the professional-level support. ;)
02:46 audreyt illegal option is most likely due to embperl5
02:47 audreyt if you build again with env PUGS_EMBED set to "-perl5"
02:47 audreyt (need realclean perhaps)
02:47 audreyt then it's likely to work
02:47 audreyt though I'd ofcourse like to make embperl work
02:48 pasteling "peacock" at 72.225.222.225 pasted "build error" (464 lines, 31.4K) at http://sial.org/pbot/19393
02:48 peacock i pasted what i had - but no trace from build_pugs
02:48 audreyt this is osx?
02:48 peacock yeah
02:49 peacock its a fresh source tree from  yesterday
02:49 audreyt ok. at util/build_pugs.pl
02:49 audreyt line 288
02:49 audreyt put a "die @a_file" there
02:50 audreyt and run "make pugs"
02:50 audreyt and see what it prints
02:50 audreyt actually
02:50 audreyt die "$ar - @a_file";
02:51 audreyt and see what your perl thinks the full_ar is
02:51 audreyt most likely your $Config{full_ar} contains spaces
02:51 audreyt do you use the OSX builtin perl?
02:51 audreyt ppc?
02:51 peacock yeah
02:52 peacock ok i'm retrying with that modification
02:53 peacock having some trouble with my irc client :( did  you see the result?
02:53 audreyt no
02:53 peacock "/usr/bin/ar - /Users/rob/proj/pugs/dist/build/libHSPugs-6.2.12.a at util/build_pugs.pl line 288."
02:53 peacock there it is
02:54 audreyt ok. if you run
02:54 audreyt /usr/bin/ar s /Users/rob/proj/pugs/dist/build/libHSPugs-6.2.12.a
02:54 audreyt does it succeed with no messages?
02:57 peacock "ranlib: can't open file: /Users/rob/proj/pugs/dist/build/libHSPugs-6.2.12.a (No such file or directory)"
02:57 audreyt weird.
02:57 audreyt do a
02:57 audreyt find dist/build | grep libHSPugs
02:57 audreyt and see where the .a files is there
02:58 * audreyt blames Cabal -- this is apparently a safe bet
02:58 peacock hmm...just don't have it it seems
02:58 audreyt find . third-party | grep libHSPugs
02:58 audreyt then
02:58 peacock wait
02:59 peacock ./third-party/installed/lib/Pugs-6.2.12/libHSPugs-6.2.12.a
02:59 peacock i have that
02:59 audreyt that's the only libHSPugs? there's none under dist/build/?
02:59 audreyt find . |grep libHSPugs
02:59 peacock nope :\
02:59 audreyt and see if it's anywhere else
02:59 audreyt it has to come to install/ from somewhere...
03:01 peacock thats the only one on the system
03:01 audreyt ok
03:01 peacock searched in spotlight
03:01 peacock could this be the result of earlier builds?
03:01 peacock i had some  earlier problems that I managed to muddle through
03:02 audreyt how large is it?
03:02 audreyt ah. that might be the reason too
03:02 audreyt look at your Pugs.cabal
03:02 audreyt the last line should begin with ghc-options:
03:02 audreyt nopaste that line?
03:02 peacock its 44.1mb
03:04 peacock http://sial.org/pbot/19394
03:04 lambdabot Title: Paste #19394 from "peacock" at 72.225.222.225
03:05 audreyt hmm
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03:06 audreyt perl is build with debug on (-g)? weird
03:07 peacock the darwin stuff is always just different enough to cause me problems
03:07 audreyt what does
03:08 audreyt perl -V:ranlib
03:08 audreyt say on your system?
03:08 peacock ranlib='/usr/bin/ar ts';
03:08 audreyt aha.
03:09 peacock i'm afraid i'm  still  completely in the dark
03:10 svnbot6 r12916 | markstos++ | A first draft of the Perl6 dispatch quiz!
03:10 svnbot6 r12916 | markstos++ | Interactively use Test.pm to enter your own answers about how
03:10 svnbot6 r12916 | markstos++ | you expect dispatching to work.
03:10 svnbot6 r12916 | markstos++ | More quiz questions are coming, but they are also easy to add
03:10 svnbot6 r12916 | markstos++ | in the YAML in the source. (Which could be broken out into a separate game file...)
03:10 markstos The quiz is at examples/games/dispatch_quiz.pl
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03:12 audreyt peacock: up to r12917
03:12 audreyt and nopaste the build log again
03:12 audreyt this time it'll become instrumented with "ar" calls
03:13 audreyt which should help to diagnose the rune to use
03:14 peacock ok i'm on it
03:14 svnbot6 r12917 | audreyt++ | * add instrumentation to build_pugs.pl
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03:22 peacock http://sial.org/pbot/19395
03:22 lambdabot Title: Paste #19395 from "peacock" at 72.225.222.225
03:24 audreyt ok, I got it.
03:24 audreyt it's embperl5 problem
03:24 audreyt please change util/build_pugs.pl line 303
03:24 audreyt from
03:24 audreyt    $run_setup->('build');
03:24 audreyt to
03:24 audreyt        $run_setup->('build', '--verbose');
03:25 audreyt and nopaste buildlog again
03:25 audreyt my taxi is here; I need to run in a bit; will be back in a couple hours
03:25 audreyt if you need a pugs built now, set
03:25 audreyt export PUGS_EMBED=-perl5
03:25 audreyt and realclean makefile.pl make
03:25 audreyt will get you a nonembed working pugs
03:25 audreyt but I'll look at the --verbose log and adjust cabal flags accordingly as soon as I'm back on the net
03:25 audreyt see you :)
03:25 audreyt *wave* &
03:26 peacock ok - thanks a lot for all your help
03:26 peacock !
03:26 peacock *wave*
03:28 markstos peacock: Yesterday audreyt turned on Perl5 embedding by default. It's a cool feature allowing you do things like use perl5:HTML::Template, and have that module work in Perl6.
03:28 markstos But apparently there are still some kinks to work out with getting it to build everywhere. :)
03:29 peacock markstos: looks like i picked the wrong day to try building pugs!
03:29 markstos I suspect it will work if you that out that build option.
03:29 markstos There is still a lot to explore and play with without Perl5 embedding.
03:30 peacock the build system alone has been keeping me entertained for quiet a while ;)
03:30 markstos Ah.
03:30 markstos Well, you always play with the evalbot here in the channel:
03:30 markstos ?eval say "Hello, Rob"
03:30 evalbot_12915 is now known as evalbot_12917
03:30 evalbot_12917 OUTPUT[Hello, Rob ] Bool::True
03:31 peacock yeah thats fun, but i actually do enjoy digging around in the pugs build
03:31 peacock the haskell stuff scares and fascinates me
03:32 markstos likewise.
03:34 peacock and i have to say, its pretty cool that people take the time to help a newbie to get set up
03:35 markstos As it turned out, I think you were providing valuable feedback about how Perl5 embedding builds, so it's a two way street.
03:36 pasteling "peacock" at 72.225.222.225 pasted "verbose log of os x build error" (252 lines, 24.6K) at http://sial.org/pbot/19396
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03:40 svnbot6 r12918 | markstos++ | Update the dispatch quiz game a little, including comments
03:40 svnbot6 r12918 | markstos++ | about more scenerios I'd like to model.
03:40 peacock *thinks thats a good idea*
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04:35 TreyHarris ?eval ({d => 'a'}, {d => ''}, {d => 'cd'})
04:35 evalbot_12917 is now known as evalbot_12918
04:35 evalbot_12918 ({("d" => "a"),}, {("d" => ""),}, {("d" => "cd"),})
04:36 TreyHarris ?eval ({d => 'a'}, {d => ''}, {d => 'cd'} :lang<yaml>)
04:36 evalbot_12918 Error:  unexpected ":" expecting comment, operator, "," or ")"
04:37 TreyHarris ?eval ({d => 'a'}, {d => ''}, {d => 'cd'}).yaml
04:37 evalbot_12918 "--- \n- \n  ? d\n  : a\n\n- \n  ? d\n  : \n\n- \n  ? d\n  : cd\n\n"
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05:41 svnbot6 r12919 | malon++ | examples/games/dispatch_quiz.pl - print questions in a friendlier format
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06:11 gaal is there a suggested technique for parsing things that can come out of order and accummulating them somehow classified?
06:12 gaal e.g. :($x? = 42 is rw is moose where { $x % 2 })
06:12 gaal afaik 'is rw', 'is moose' and 'where...' can come in any order
06:14 gaal the way i was thinking of was to wrap them all in the same type, and do [modifiers] <- many choice [...]
06:14 gaal but that's kinda artificial since 'is rw' is by no means an Exp, for example
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07:26 svnbot6 r12920 | trey++ | Adding a smartlink
07:39 svnbot6 r12921 | trey++ | [docs/Perl6/Perl5/Differences.pod]
07:39 svnbot6 r12921 | trey++ | Made the section on twigils actually contain a twigil or two ;-)
07:40 gaal ugh. what's the best way to deal with clashing names oldval<->newval? In Pugs.AST so far we were lucky and didn't need to import Pugs.Val qualified; but now I want Param(..)...
07:41 gaal ...and Pugs.AST reexports 'module Pugs.Val'
07:42 gaal I think for now I'll do type NewParam = Param and export that, if that allows constructors
07:44 gaal doesn't seem to work :(
07:44 gaal this is ugly, but the fix is maybe to have the data type called NewParam and Param be an (unexported) alias to that?
07:45 gaal of just call it SigParam and be done with it :/
07:47 gaal going with that, as it does make some sort of sense.
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07:48 araujo what are you trying to do gaal ?
07:48 gaal take over the world! :)
07:48 araujo ok, well, we all are at it ....
07:48 gaal araujo: introduce a parser that deals with :()
07:49 gaal and constructs a Signature object with Params in it
07:49 gaal the problem was that the Param symbol was already used in old-val land.
07:49 gaal but it's fixed now.
07:54 svnbot6 r12922 | trey++ | [Differences.pod]
07:54 svnbot6 r12922 | trey++ | Fixed section on quotes to refer to the
07:54 svnbot6 r12922 | trey++ | quotes they were referring to....
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08:18 svnbot6 r12923 | trey++ | [Differences.pod]
08:18 svnbot6 r12923 | trey++ | Infinite C<loop>.  :P5 regexes.
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08:28 gaal audreyt: in Sig, does s_namedSet include names of positional params too, or only "pure nameds"?
08:28 gaal likewise s_requiredNames
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09:57 gaal I'll commit rudimentary Signature parsing later today. Something that can be really helpful to continue with this is tests, but as far as I know an introspection API isn't specced yet for Signatures, so that might be hard to do :)
09:58 gaal can we get at least a conjectural API please?
10:00 gaal if anyone wants to invent one and just commit tests, please go ahead
10:01 gaal e.g.:  my $sig = :($x);    is $sig.requiredPositionals, 1
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10:48 gaal yay! ghc 6.6 release candidate, only a week late!   http://www.haskell.org/ghc/dist/current/dist/
10:48 lambdabot Title: Index of /ghc/dist/current/dist
10:57 nothingmuch can a type class have an instance of another type class?
10:59 audreyt subclassing is allowed, sure
11:00 * nothingmuch is going to solve the layout/slot issue by overengineering once and for all
11:00 nothingmuch and then i think i am going to write me a blondie 2 in haskell
11:00 nothingmuch but just OO
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11:01 gaal going out for lunch for a few hours
11:01 gaal audreyt: will you be here in say 2h?
11:01 nothingmuch sounds like a fun lunch
11:01 nothingmuch enjoy =)
11:01 gaal yeah, buchari's the best :)
11:01 * nothingmuch dunnos
11:02 nothingmuch http://www.post-literate.com/gerpunx/archives/hasselhoffian-recursion.gif
11:02 audreyt sure
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11:02 gaal darn, forgot my new feather pw
11:03 gaal ok so i won't mail you my latest patch, we'll talk then
11:03 ludan hi
11:03 gaal gotta moose, later! &
11:03 nothingmuch we need to implement hasselhoffian recursion in perl 6
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12:50 gaal remoose
12:54 araujo morning
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13:13 svnbot6 r12924 | gaal++ | * Basic support for parsing Signatures with :().
13:13 svnbot6 r12924 | gaal++ |   Only named parameters are parsed, and optionals (incorrectly)
13:13 svnbot6 r12924 | gaal++ |   require a '?' even if they have a default value. No parameter
13:13 svnbot6 r12924 | gaal++ |   decoration (type constraints, access traits, etc.) is supported
13:13 svnbot6 r12924 | gaal++ |   yet. The following forms do work:
13:13 svnbot6 r12924 | gaal++ |   :($x:)
13:13 svnbot6 r12924 | gaal++ |   :($x)
13:13 svnbot6 r12924 | gaal++ |   :($x: $y, $z)
13:13 svnbot6 r12924 | gaal++ |   :($x: $y, $z? = 42)
13:13 svnbot6 r12924 | gaal++ |   :($x: $y?, $z)   # correctly raises a parse error
13:14 gaal tests and golf welcome...
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13:16 gaal s/named/positional/....
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13:20 gaal bbiab...
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13:27 audreyt ooooh.
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13:34 svnbot6 r12925 | audreyt++ | * Proper support for PCRE submatch counts.
13:34 svnbot6 r12925 | audreyt++ | * Disable explicit imports from RRegex.PCRE, in preparation
13:34 svnbot6 r12925 | audreyt++ |   for a #ifdef PUGS_HAVE_PERL5 hook in RRegex.hs so that we
13:34 svnbot6 r12925 | audreyt++ |   can switch into RRegex.Perl5 some day.
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13:50 Limbic_Region audreyt - "some day"?  Is the plan to move in that direction now on hold in lieu of something else?
13:51 audreyt as in "not today"
13:51 audreyt as my brain is fried
13:51 audreyt as in "perhaps tomorrow."
13:51 Limbic_Region ah
13:51 Limbic_Region ok
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14:02 audreyt peacock: In case you are backlogging, I've got identical setup on powerpc g4
14:02 audreyt looking into the build problem now
14:03 audreyt though not sure if I'll stay awake long enough...
14:04 obra 'morning
14:05 audreyt yo
14:06 clkao audreyt: hey
14:06 clkao audreyt: what happened to the plain that using rule as a rendering template language
14:06 clkao s/plain/plan
14:07 audreyt well, we didn't have a reasonable PCR ack then...
14:07 audreyt *back
14:07 audreyt now I guess it'd be nice and fun.
14:07 clkao ya
14:07 clkao so... mmm very interesting.
14:08 clkao i will talk to tina later
14:08 audreyt tina?
14:08 audreyt the notes are still in misc/pX/audreyt/rules-are-templates
14:09 clkao audreyt: html::template::compiled
14:09 audreyt nice!
14:09 audreyt excellent stuff.
14:10 clkao ya. it's even faster then tt
14:11 clkao there are more complaints about jifty being mason than i expcected
14:11 audreyt View::HTC then?
14:11 audreyt mason is more polarizing than tt2.
14:11 audreyt as it's not a humble framework.
14:11 obra HTC?
14:11 obra ah. parsed.
14:11 audreyt HTML::Template::Compiled
14:12 audreyt definitely not MSIE5 HTML Components :)
14:12 obra but yes, TT people Hate mason, while mason people usually prefer mason to TT. ;)
14:12 audreyt I prefer mason to TT, and I hate mason.
14:13 obra mm. need hackathon to make jifty::view::declarative go
14:13 audreyt I guess that makes me in both camps comfortably
14:13 clkao norman ported 50% to tt
14:13 clkao he said the other 50% is hard
14:13 audreyt yeah. you not going to oopsla...
14:13 audreyt not sure what other conferences are there between oct and feb
14:14 clkao i am proably going to yapc::sa
14:14 audreyt but it's brazil, we are more likely to hack p5p6 or p6p6 or p5p5
14:15 obra when is oopsla?
14:15 obra "p5p5" for real?
14:15 audreyt B::Visitor
14:15 obra clkao: norman never committed anything
14:15 audreyt or some other lathos-isomorphic plans
14:15 obra :)
14:16 audreyt metaprogramming p5 in p5, that is
14:16 clkao audreyt: oh, seee if we can switch to PCR based templates. then it's relevent
14:16 weinig|bbl is now known as weinig
14:16 audreyt that's even more crazy that declarative UI...
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14:16 audreyt autoscraping reversible templating
14:16 obra heh
14:16 clkao X
14:16 audreyt obra: oopsla is oct22
14:16 clkao D
14:16 audreyt ~26
14:16 clkao where's oopsla?
14:16 obra portland
14:17 obra actually.
14:17 audreyt portland convention centre
14:17 obra cl: when is google summit?
14:17 clkao 16-18
14:17 obra so. we could do 19-21 in portland
14:17 clkao i guess sfo pdx isn't too far away
14:17 obra or after oopsla
14:17 * clkao . o O (perl travel agent service)
14:17 obra also, we have a staff programmer in portland.
14:17 obra who knows where one can find onsen
14:17 clkao this is crazy talk
14:17 audreyt in portland? wow. 19~21 would be good for me
14:18 obra schwern claims there are hotsprings in portland.
14:18 clkao Intternals::SvREADONLY(${\undef}, 0) undef = 42
14:18 audreyt orig. planning pair with fglock right after oopsla
14:18 audreyt clkao: yes, I saw that hack (and SvTRUE = 0 and SvFALSE = 1) in perlmonks a while ago...
14:18 obra audreyt: fglock is comming to oopsla?
14:18 audreyt no, flying to brazil for preconf hackathon
14:18 obra ahh.
14:18 obra 19-12 is a little short
14:19 audreyt 19~26 is not
14:19 obra and knowing you, you'll be slideshacking
14:19 obra that's true.
14:19 clkao mmm
14:19 clkao then machupichu before yapcsa...
14:19 audreyt well, my keynote is 22
14:19 obra keynote?! wow.
14:19 audreyt opening day of dynamic language symposium
14:20 audreyt not oopsla main. side conf. but yeah, invited speaker :)
14:20 audreyt which means I don't have to submit a paper.
14:20 audreyt (yay)
14:20 obra ah :)
14:21 audreyt so that means 24~26 is perfectly good hacktime for me, as is probably 19 and 20
14:22 obra *nod*
14:23 obra sounds like we have a potential plan.
14:24 obra sadly, it doesn't mean I have to go to .tw
14:24 clkao i will be back home tomorrow noonish
14:24 clkao obra: winter is not there yet
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14:26 gaal_ remoose
14:26 gaal_ is now known as gaal
14:30 audreyt hey gaal. I've looked at your patch
14:30 audreyt and :(Int $x) seems doable
14:30 audreyt and I wonder if we should bump CompUnit version for this
14:30 audreyt but I need to fade now...
14:31 lollan joined perl6
14:32 weinig is now known as weinig|bbl
14:32 audreyt *wave* &
14:34 gaal why need compunit be bumped? we don't use this parser for blocks/subs/methods yet
14:36 gaal anymoose named args and fixing 'is X' look more urgent than Int $x...
14:36 Eimi joined perl6
14:37 gaal was there any additional thought given to the relationship of multis and guards?
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15:32 Limbic_Region hrmmm - my make smoke output looks awfully strange
15:33 Limbic_Region um - pugs on Win32 is b0rk
15:34 pasteling "Limbic_Region" at 129.33.119.12 pasted "Win32 is currently b0rked" (17 lines, 1.8K) at http://sial.org/pbot/19411
15:35 Limbic_Region This smoke report isn't going to look too good
15:35 * Limbic_Region does a rebuild just in case
15:37 Limbic_Region anyone else having this problem (Win32 or otherwise)?
15:38 * [particle] makes unoptimized pugs
15:42 Limbic_Region particle - you are Win32 exclusively or is it one of multiple environments you build pugs in?
15:42 [particle] i'm win32-msvc only for now
15:43 Limbic_Region ok
15:43 Limbic_Region what version of ghc?
15:43 [particle] 6.4.1
15:43 Limbic_Region interesting to know if you get the same problem or not then
15:43 Limbic_Region AS Perl or from source or other?
15:44 [particle] as 5.8.7
15:44 * Limbic_Region begins the process of building from scratch and wanders off to get some lunch
15:44 Limbic_Region bbiab - let me know what your results are
15:45 [particle] still compiling, will do
15:47 xinming joined perl6
15:51 [particle] D:\usr\local\pugs>pugs -e"say 'hello'"
15:51 [particle] hello
15:55 iblechbot joined perl6
16:01 Limbic_Region hopefully rebuilding from scratch will yield the same results
16:02 Limbic_Region we do have a number of differences though
16:04 [particle] which perl?
16:04 [particle] ooh, actually i'm 5.8.6
16:04 Limbic_Region AS 5.8.8 (which I have patched to make Module::Build work with MinGW)
16:05 Limbic_Region so I am on GHC 6.5, AS 5.8.8 (patched), and MinGW
16:05 [particle] you're all new, i'm pretty old
16:05 Limbic_Region heh
16:05 Limbic_Region particle - the performance difference alone is worth going to GHC 6.5
16:06 [particle] sure, if pugs works with it :)
16:06 [particle] is compile time slower?
16:06 Limbic_Region it does, audreyt is the one who convinced me to upgrade
16:06 Limbic_Region no - faster
16:06 [particle] compile+runtime faster? wow.
16:07 Limbic_Region and there really isn't any upgrade - you basically just untar it
16:07 Limbic_Region well, the compile time speed difference might not necessarily be related to ghc
16:07 Limbic_Region changes to pugs internals and the build process might explain that
16:08 * [particle] wonders if he needs to upgrade to 6.4.2 before patching to 6.5
16:08 Limbic_Region no
16:09 Limbic_Region the binary build is this simple - pull down the snapshot, untar it, rename your current ghc directory to ghc_6.4.1 or some such and rename the untared dir your old ghc
16:09 Limbic_Region at least that's all I had to do
16:10 Limbic_Region that way if you want to back out - all you have to do is rename some directories
16:10 [particle] hrmm. i suppose i want one ending in -mingw32
16:10 Limbic_Region actually - you want the one from the 19th since the Win32 builds are all b0rk after that date
16:10 Limbic_Region let me get you an exact URL
16:11 elmex joined perl6
16:12 Limbic_Region http://www.haskell.org/ghc/dist/current/dist/ghc-6.5.20060819-i386-unknown-mingw32.tar.gz
16:13 [particle] thanks! i'll let you know how the install goes
16:13 gaal try the latest one though, it's a 6.6 release candidate
16:13 Limbic_Region ok - since you are using MSVC you shouldn't need to patch AS when/if you upgrade to 5.8.8
16:14 Limbic_Region gaal - have they fixed the Win32 problem - I don't think so
16:14 gaal fwiw my experience shows pugs compilation to be a little slower on 6.5, but the resulting pugs is *way* faster.
16:14 gaal Limbic_Region: if not please submit a report to the ghc team, this is a release candidate!
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16:14 [particle] the difference in compile time between msvc 6 and 7.1 for parrot is ~50%
16:15 gaal in favor of?
16:15 [particle] 7.1 is slower, but the parrot exe is definitely faster
16:15 Limbic_Region gaal - I only use binary builds and I think that is specifically where the problem is
16:15 Limbic_Region I am sure the source builds work fine
16:15 [particle] is there a link for a binary build of the 6.6 rc?
16:15 gaal Limbic_Region: I understand, but seeing as this is a release candidate...
16:15 Limbic_Region they just aren't including ghc.exe for instance in the binary build
16:16 [particle] if so, i'll stop my current d/l
16:16 Limbic_Region gaal - it is easy enough to tell, just check to see if ghc.exe exists in the tarball
16:16 gaal [particle]: try the same dir Limbic_Region linked you to, just not that file.
16:16 [particle] k
16:16 Limbic_Region gaal - fwiw, I did tell the folks in #haskell - no one seemed too interested
16:17 gaal Limbic_Region: oops, the build moose is my bad. please rm blib6/lib/*yml
16:17 * [particle] notices there's a ghc hackathon in portland in two weeks
16:17 Eimi joined perl6
16:17 Limbic_Region gaal - well, the rebuild from scratch is almost complete
16:17 gaal [particle]: yes, and there's a ICFP soon too
16:18 Limbic_Region if realclean didn't do that for me - will be sure to do that next
16:18 gaal realclean kills blib6/, I think (it should!)
16:18 Limbic_Region gaal - WRT 6.5 being a little slower - then the overall build process has improved because before 6.5 it used to take me a minimum of 45 mins to rebuild from scratch
16:19 Limbic_Region it is down to 30 minutes now
16:19 * Limbic_Region tests pugs -e "say 'hello'"
16:19 gaal the difference being? just the compiler?
16:19 [particle] and the revision of pugs, i presume
16:19 Limbic_Region no way to isolate the difference
16:19 Limbic_Region right particle
16:20 gaal because there have been improvements in pugs build time.
16:20 gaal Limbic_Region: of course there's a way to isolate the improvement, try same r with different ghcs
16:20 Limbic_Region as I said before, the improvements may be completely unrelated to ghc - but I noticed the difference at around the same time
16:20 [particle] so i should see the speedups even with 'unoptimized'?
16:20 Limbic_Region gaal - no way to tell that I am *that* interested in pursuing
16:20 Eimi joined perl6
16:21 Limbic_Region gaal - fixed
16:21 * Limbic_Region starts a new make smoke
16:21 gaal [particle]: my small benchmark didn't include an unoptimized comparison, sorry :)
16:21 [particle] :P
16:23 * Limbic_Region still can't figure out why t/examples/all_parse.t won't work under the test harness other than the fact that it has to do with $debug being turned on for File::Find
16:23 [particle] +o+
16:23 Limbic_Region I can't see where the debug information is coming out on STDERR and I would assume printing to STDOUT would be ok
16:25 * Limbic_Region wanders off to a cow orker's going away party
16:25 [particle] gaal: are you moosing \u2559\u263b\u255c ? you should
16:25 Limbic_Region bbiab
16:25 svnbot6 r12926 | gaal++ | * Limbic_Region's breakage report makes me understand audreyt's
16:25 svnbot6 r12926 | gaal++ |   comment about the CompUnit version needing a bump.
16:26 gaal ╙☻╜!
16:26 [particle] my irc client can't display that :(
16:27 gaal ╙☺╜
16:27 gaal or the ASCII fallback:  }:)
16:28 * gaal envisions a Perl 6 parsing combinator library called Moosec
16:30 Psyche^ is now known as Patterner
16:30 xerox loool
16:30 xerox Moose :D
16:30 gaal hello xerox!
16:30 xerox Hi!
16:31 [particle] moose is a palindrome, if you turn your head and squint
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16:32 [particle] hrmm, the ghc-6.5.20060901 has a gcc.exe, is that expected?
16:32 gaal yes
16:32 gaal all win32 ghcs bundle gcc
16:32 [particle] well, i don't see ghc.exe
16:33 [particle] oh, there it is
16:33 gaal see README
16:37 lollan joined perl6
16:44 [particle] hrmm, makefile.pl seems to be failing
16:45 [particle] Updated to revision 12926.
16:45 [particle] D:\usr\local\pugs>makefile.pl
16:45 [particle] Global symbol "$pcre" requires explicit package name at D:\usr\local\pugs\Makefile.PL line 522.
16:46 [particle] oh, i'm conflicted
16:51 xerox joined perl6
16:52 Limbic_Region gaal - today
16:52 Limbic_Region err
16:52 Limbic_Region gaal - today's snapshot having the ghc.exe means they fixed the build problem
16:52 Limbic_Region good stuff
16:52 gaal yes indeed.
16:53 * Limbic_Region might upgrade himself next week at work and this weekend at home
16:53 * [particle] rebuilds pugs with latest ghc
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16:55 Limbic_Region gaal - should I expect a major difference between the snapshot from the 19th and today?  IOW, was the 6.6 branch merged recently or had it been integrated for a while?
16:56 gaal difference in what sense?
16:56 gaal I'm using one from the 18th myself (linux)
16:57 Limbic_Region gaal - just what I said WRT 6.6
16:57 Limbic_Region IOW - did the 6.5 and 6.6 branch and then get merged
16:57 Limbic_Region or has the 6.6 rc always been part of the 6.5 branc
16:57 Limbic_Region branch
16:59 gaal I don't know, but since this is the first release for 6.6 presumably 6.5 is where all the stuff's at.
16:59 gaal but I never even looked at ghc source control, so better ask someone more into it.
16:59 [particle] wow, a parrot/perl6 question on p6l
17:01 [particle] i find nothing in S04 to say whether nested statement modifiers are allowed on blocks
17:02 gaal anyone here know ruleQualifiedIdentifier and ruleTrait etc.? I don't understand who ruleTrait supposedly services things like 'is export', because it ultimately calls
17:02 gaal ruleVerbatimIdentifier `sepBy1` (string "::")
17:02 gaal IOW, 'is export' won't parse, but say 'is MyProj::Moose' would
17:03 gaal *understand how
17:04 Limbic_Region gaal - it isn't that important to me WRT significant changes being merged in GHC.  I just wanted to know if there was something spectacular I should be on the lookout for.  Wait and see I guess
17:05 * Limbic_Region checks the results of his most recent smoke to see how things are doing
17:06 Limbic_Region 94.89% ok
17:09 gaal oh, no: sepBy1 just means ruleVerbatimIdentifier must match once or more.. but a trace shows it never does. hmm
17:09 weinig is now known as weinig|away
17:12 [particle] D:\usr\local\pugs>setup configure
17:12 [particle] Configuring Pugs-6.2.12...
17:12 [particle] setup: cannot satisfy dependency HsJudy-any
17:12 [particle] ??
17:12 gaal [particle]: you may have to 'make' once w/o 'fast'
17:12 miyagawa_ joined perl6
17:13 gaal you can interrupt once deps have been built.
17:13 Limbic_Region setup configure?
17:13 Limbic_Region svn up; perl Makefile.PL; nmake;
17:15 nothingmuch joined perl6
17:16 Limbic_Region how the moose are you nothingmuch?
17:16 [particle] my command was C<nmake clean && Makefile.PL && nmake>
17:18 Limbic_Region ah
17:18 Limbic_Region the setup.exe invoked by Makefile.PL
17:19 gaal [particle]: perl Makefile.PL I hope
17:19 Limbic_Region gaal - why?
17:19 Limbic_Region windows file association
17:19 gaal ahhhhh win32
17:19 gaal right
17:20 gaal wow, w32 golf
17:20 [particle] win32: 1; linux: 0 ;)
17:20 gaal [particle]: by all means keep using windows if you prefer it
17:21 Limbic_Region particle - did you get the build working?  I don't know about you but I don't trust "clean" and always opt for "realclean"
17:21 [particle] i'm doing realclean now
17:23 TreyHarris how do you use a perl5 module in pugs?  I successfully used perl5:IO::Prompt, but I can't figure out how to call prompt().  it isn't directly imported, and IO::Prompt::prompt gives me an undefined subroutine err
17:24 gaal TreyHarris: the hack is IO::Prompt.can('prompt'), IIRC
17:24 svnbot6 r12927 | gaal++ | * Signatures: fix access traits, e.g. :($x is rw)
17:24 svnbot6 r12927 | gaal++ | * cleanup a little, golf a little
17:26 TreyHarris gaal: ah, ok, thanks.  unsurprisingly perhaps, prompt screams about not recognizing its context ("Are you trying to call me from inside a tie handler?")
17:27 gaal hm, a hack may be required, wrap it in a p5 closure?
17:27 TreyHarris yes, i think so
17:28 TreyHarris but before perl5: worked, I was toying with porting IO::Prompt anyway.  maybe i'll just do that
17:28 gaal we had loads of ports once in the pugs repo, then they moved, and I don't know if anyone is still maintaining his any more
17:29 TreyHarris oh, i was actually just going to ask you about that, where they went and if there was a place in the pugs repo for such
17:29 TreyHarris as i wanted to write a util/ that would use it
17:29 gaal i think.. freepan?
17:29 gaal google for memcached and perl6
17:31 TreyHarris i found it, i think: http://tpe.freepan.org/
17:31 gaal yes that's it
17:31 TreyHarris but a util that uses something outside of the pugs repo would probably be bad form
17:32 gaal it's actually a good excuse to put your code in ext/ :)
17:34 TreyHarris gaal: good point.  somebody ported one of my cpan modules, i see; since it's out of date and also a very literal translation, i think i'd like to do it myself again
17:34 [particle] left perl6
17:34 svnbot6 r12928 | gaal++ | * golf, golf, golf is good, golf is great yeah
17:34 [particle] joined perl6
17:35 Teratogen are perl 6 functions in builtin pseudo-package-classes?
17:35 Teratogen builtin functions that is
17:35 gaal Teratogen: see Prelude.pm
17:35 Teratogen ok
17:35 Teratogen thanks
17:36 Teratogen where can I find that, gaal?
17:36 Daveman joined perl6
17:36 gaal Teratogen: http://svn.openfoundry.org/pugs/src/perl6/Prelude.pm
17:36 Teratogen thanks again
17:36 gaal np
17:37 gaal if you're asking about things that aren't there, say.... &say, then I think the answer is that "they should be!" but not always are
17:37 gaal see also S29
17:37 gaal http://perlcabal.org/syn/S29.html
17:37 lambdabot Title: S29
17:37 Limbic_Region which is still mighty confusing
17:38 * Limbic_Region thinks the dev.perl.org/perl6 link for S29 should not point to what it does now
17:38 Limbic_Region oh, nevermind me
17:39 Limbic_Region it has been updated at least to refer to the one in the pugs repo
17:39 TreyHarris gaal: do you have any insight as to why literal lists of hashes segfault pugs unless used in an eval?
17:39 gaal ahem
17:39 gaal example?
17:39 TreyHarris ?eval ({a => 'a'}, {b => 'b'})
17:40 Limbic_Region TreyHarris - example using ?eval would be even better
17:40 Limbic_Region nevermind
17:40 evalbot_12918 is now known as evalbot_12927
17:40 evalbot_12927 user error (Incompatible version number for compilation unit Consider removing blib6/lib/Prelude.pm.yml and make it again ) ({("a" => "a"),}, {("b" => "b"),})
17:40 TreyHarris oh... that was working last night on evalbot
17:40 gaal works here
17:40 gaal evalbot needs cleaning its .yml, sec
17:41 TreyHarris ah, maybe audreyt fixed it since last night
17:41 * Limbic_Region is a day late and dollar short on everything today
17:41 TreyHarris i'll update and make
17:41 Limbic_Region she's like that
17:41 Limbic_Region always going and fixing things
17:41 TreyHarris Limbic_Region: yeah, but usually she mentions it on the channel :-)
17:41 [particle] the S29 link should actually be a hyperlink
17:42 gaal aaaaagh
17:42 gaal Juerd: ping, please add me to sudoers
17:43 pasteling "[particle]" at 144.81.84.207 pasted "ghc-6.5 pugs on win32 is all moosed up" (523 lines, 27.1K) at http://sial.org/pbot/19412
17:43 TreyHarris hmm... only changes are yours, gaal.  i'll re-make, but unless your changes fixed it as a side effect, it may be a OS X-specific issue
17:44 * Limbic_Region disagrees with particle
17:44 Limbic_Region or rather - suggests particle indicate which snapshot the 6.5 was taken from
17:45 TreyHarris or a ghc6.4.2 issue....
17:45 gaal Limbic_Region: he's using 6.5.20060901, as mentioned in the paste.
17:45 [particle] latest
17:45 [particle] right.
17:46 Limbic_Region gaal - I knew that, I just took issue with the headline
17:46 [particle] }:P
17:47 gaal [particle]: hmm, dunno what to suggest except nuke dist/ and try again?
17:47 gaal what's FPS_Dummy anyway?
17:47 Limbic_Region hrm - yeah
17:47 Limbic_Region I seem to recall unregistering fps something or other a while back as it was the only way to get pugs to build
17:47 xerox joined perl6
17:48 Limbic_Region after some change - but don't recall which
17:48 gaal I'm not using that snapshot yet. could it be that that ghc comes with a good enough fps, so our fps builds a dummy instead? shooting in the dark here
17:48 gaal Limbic_Region: this is compilation, not linkage
17:49 gaal brb
17:49 Limbic_Region well, as soon as the current make finishes
17:49 Limbic_Region I will try it with the latest GHC to see if I get the same problem
17:49 Limbic_Region that could possibly eliminate the snapshot as being the problem
17:50 [particle] that would be quite helpful
17:52 Limbic_Region it could be up to 40 minutes or so before I know for sure it works - will know if it is b0rk faster
17:52 Limbic_Region my work download speed is abysmal
17:53 [particle] actually, it took me a long time to d/l that file, too
17:53 [particle] it may be the haskell.org site that's slow
17:53 Limbic_Region well, my top speed is 30kb/sec
17:54 Limbic_Region and norm is like 28
18:00 cmarcelo gaal: re fps dummy: you're right. Pugs.cabal prefer always depending on pugs-fps and let u/build_pugs.pl choose between the empty (for GHC 6.5, which have fps in the core) and non-empty for GHC 6.4 people..
18:03 Limbic_Region particle - downloaded and untarred - svn upping now
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18:07 Limbic_Region particle - if I am reading your nopaste correctly - you don't even make it past Makefile?
18:08 Limbic_Region oh, nevermind
18:08 Limbic_Region you must have not nopasted that
18:08 [particle] k
18:08 [particle] right, just the end
18:08 Limbic_Region build starting now
18:10 Limbic_Region getting very close to the point yours blew up
18:11 Limbic_Region interesting
18:11 Limbic_Region mine failed too
18:11 Limbic_Region but for different error
18:12 Limbic_Region Setup.exe: cannot satisfy dependency HsJudy-any
18:12 [particle] did you realclean?
18:12 Limbic_Region yes
18:12 * Limbic_Region tries something
18:13 Limbic_Region will be another 15 minutes or so
18:20 Limbic_Region ok, starting build again
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18:24 Limbic_Region approaching previous break point
18:25 xinming_ joined perl6
18:25 Limbic_Region particle - confirmed, error is related to latest ghc snapshot
18:26 [particle] but you have a different error, right?
18:26 Limbic_Region not now
18:27 [particle] oh, great!
18:27 Limbic_Region you had gone from 6.4.1 to 6.5 which meant audreyt had already done something special for third-party
18:27 Limbic_Region I went from 6.5 to 6.5 and had to convince third-party to play nice
18:27 Limbic_Region once I did - I am getting exact same results
18:28 [particle] i assume audrey has started her weekend by sleeping
18:28 * Limbic_Region assumes so too
18:28 iblechbot joined perl6
18:28 Limbic_Region no matter though, just download the link I gave you before and use that directory
18:28 Limbic_Region once the fix has been made for the most recent release
18:28 Limbic_Region just rename directories again
18:29 * Limbic_Region likes being able to switch between versions of ghc just by changing dir names
18:29 Limbic_Region even easier would be setting the env variable but that is not as easy on *this* box
18:29 [particle] yep, i just modified my path statement
18:32 Limbic_Region well, that was fun - NOT
18:32 gaal cmarcelo: could you loook at Limbic_Region and [particle] build failure? I think you may have an idea how to approach it
18:33 cmarcelo I already did but didn't had a clue :(... by the build log from particle looks like ghc.exe doesn't compile anything, maybe testing if it can compile a helloworld, just to check if the binary is sane..
18:34 Limbic_Region cmarcelo - got a command line 1 liner for me to try?
18:36 [particle] ...or a small nopasted sample
18:36 cmarcelo Limbic_Region: create a file hello.hs with
18:36 Lorn joined perl6
18:36 cmarcelo main = putStrLn "haha"
18:37 cmarcelo and then ghc hello.hs -o hello
18:37 onsen joined perl6
18:37 Limbic_Region works fine
18:38 [particle] here too
18:38 [particle] D:\usr\local\pugs>ghc hello.hs -o hello.exe
18:38 [particle] D:\usr\local\pugs>hello
18:38 [particle] hello, world!
18:38 gaal [particle]: that's a bug, it should have printed "haha". I do not know what could have caused it.
18:38 [particle] the bug is, my hello.hs is different :)
18:39 * Limbic_Region reminds particle that it is Friday and not to kick gaal
18:39 cmarcelo ok.. (are you testing with the bad-latest-ghc rifht?)
18:39 * [particle] licks gaal
18:39 * Limbic_Region has no idea WTF that means cmarcelo
18:39 gaal cmarcelo: they both have today's 6.6 release candidate
18:39 Limbic_Region we are both using the latest binary build (from today at around 9AM)
18:40 cmarcelo i meant the release candidate :)
18:40 gaal Limbic_Region: good to know there's a day in the week you're not violent in
18:40 cmarcelo rifht => right..
18:40 Limbic_Region I currently have 6.4.2, 6.5-2006_08_19, and 6.5-2006_00_01 to play with cmarcelo
18:40 Limbic_Region cmarcelo - interestingly enough, the binary snapshots for Win32 had been b0rk since the 19th
18:41 [particle] and i have 6.4.1 and current
18:41 Limbic_Region (missing ghc.exe for instance)
18:41 Limbic_Region it looks like this was fixed around the 29th
18:42 Limbic_Region that is based of the tar ball file size change
18:42 cmarcelo Limbic_Region: looks like the binary is sane.. i'm looking for the error msg on the web..
18:42 Limbic_Region the difference though is that on the 19th with a working ghc/pugs the file was 61mb - today it is only 41
18:42 svnbot6 r12929 | gaal++ | * Parse type constraints in Signatures:
18:42 svnbot6 r12929 | gaal++ |   :(Moose $x)
18:42 svnbot6 r12929 | gaal++ | * Commented out is support for:
18:42 svnbot6 r12929 | gaal++ |   :($x where { $x % 2 })
18:42 svnbot6 r12929 | gaal++ |   ...which requires an Exp -> Pugs.Val.Code convertor.
18:43 Limbic_Region cmarcelo - so with 20 mb difference, I am still not convinced the build is 100%
18:43 Limbic_Region though I could just be throwing stones at the unknown
18:43 cmarcelo Limbic_Region: check if the files the pugs build complain missing (Stg.h HsBase.h) are in the RC tree..
18:43 cmarcelo s/check/would you mind checking/
18:44 Limbic_Region no worries - will then confirm the same (present or missing) from the 19th's build
18:44 maard left perl6
18:45 cmarcelo Limbic_Region: recently they dropped some libs out of the core.. I think they should be distributing a *-extralibs-* together with every snapshot..
18:45 Limbic_Region cmarcelo - good news, both files are present in both snapshots
18:45 Limbic_Region cmarcelo - bad news, they aren't in the same paths between snapshots
18:46 [particle] erk
18:46 Limbic_Region I think this might be an easy short-term fix
18:46 * Limbic_Region tries something
18:47 cmarcelo Limbic_Region: well, I suppose you're trying linking or copying them around..
18:48 Limbic_Region for now just copying
18:48 Limbic_Region Win32 doesn't support linking
18:48 Limbic_Region but if this does work
18:48 Limbic_Region then it will just be a matter of adding an -I
18:48 Limbic_Region or whatever Pugs/GHC needs to look for header files in additional directories
18:49 gaal Limbic_Region: can you paste the two paths here? looks like it might be a reportworthy bug in the distro
18:49 Limbic_Region sure
18:49 Limbic_Region ghc_root/include
18:49 onsen_ joined perl6
18:49 Limbic_Region is the working path where ghc_root should be obvious
18:50 Limbic_Region ghc_root/lib/i386-mingw-unknown/include
18:50 gaal did you follow the steps in INSTALL? on linux at least you need 'make in-place'
18:50 Limbic_Region is the current broken path
18:50 Limbic_Region gaal - no need on Win32
18:50 gaal ok
18:51 Limbic_Region though that may be interesting - it might ultimately be that it is necessary and that the build on the 19th was b0rk
18:51 gaal fwiw: on my system (with the older snapshot), it's in lib/$platform/include too, and it works.
18:51 Limbic_Region appears to be working
18:51 Limbic_Region though still very early in build process
18:52 gaal Limbic_Region: could you write your findings up and post them to glasgow-haskell-bugs@haskell.org please?
18:52 Limbic_Region gaal - I have 8 minutes before work gets out
18:52 gaal they too are nearing release and will appreciate it
18:53 gaal okay, I'll do it then
18:53 Limbic_Region but particle should be able to
18:53 Limbic_Region gaal - new build error Setup.exe: cannot satisfy dependency mtl-any
18:53 Limbic_Region going to try one more thing
18:53 Limbic_Region then going home
18:55 Limbic_Region ok, gaal - positive the make or make in place not necessary on Win32 as no configure present in the snapshot
18:55 Limbic_Region so it basically boils down to root/include vs root/lib/$platform/include
18:55 Limbic_Region but since we still aren't building (though further along)
18:55 Limbic_Region posting to bugs is a bit premature
18:56 Limbic_Region what exactly is mtl-any anyway?
18:58 cmarcelo monad transformer library
18:58 TreyHarris what's the incantation for regenerating the yaml prelude, and is it documented anywhere?
18:58 Limbic_Region is that one of the libraries that got dropped?
18:59 Limbic_Region and if so, where can I get it from to install manually
18:59 cmarcelo Limbic_Region: not sure, they were discussing whether include or not..
18:59 cmarcelo get the extralibs for RC then
18:59 cmarcelo the error now is for missing mtl ?
18:59 cmarcelo (only)
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19:00 Limbic_Region cmarcelo - that's the only *current* error - doesn't mean fixing that won't point to a new one
19:00 TreyHarris i tried this: ./util/gen_prelude.pl --inline src/perl6/Prelude.pm
19:00 TreyHarris got errors
19:00 Limbic_Region cmarcelo - same download location for the extralibs?
19:01 cmarcelo Limbic_Region: same d/l location
19:01 gaal TreyHarris: util/gen_prelude.pl -v -i src/perl6/Prelude.pm -p ./pugs --output blib6/lib/Prelude.pm.yml
19:02 Limbic_Region cmarcelo - all that is provided is src (no binary) so I hope all that is needed is ghc.exe to compile them
19:02 cmarcelo yes
19:02 Limbic_Region great
19:02 Limbic_Region gaal - going to build these extra libraries and try again
19:02 gaal TreyHarris: this is what build_pugs does. if can spare some tuits, a flag to build_pugs to do just that would be great, as well as a Makefile.PL rule to invoke that
19:03 Limbic_Region if it works then it will be two things - neither of which is necessarily a haskell issue
19:03 cmarcelo Limbic_Region: build instructions => http://www.haskell.org/pipermail/glasgow-haskell-users/2006-September/010968.html
19:03 lambdabot Title: ANNOUNCE: GHC 6.6 Release Candidate, http://tinyurl.com/nh2rm
19:03 Limbic_Region thanks cmarcelo
19:03 * Limbic_Region should be on his way home now
19:04 cmarcelo did lambdabot create tinyurl? cool! =)
19:04 Limbic_Region cmarcelo - there are no instructions there - perhaps next in the thread?
19:04 cmarcelo "unpack the extralibs tarball on top of the source tree to add them, they will be
19:04 cmarcelo included in the build automatically."
19:05 Limbic_Region but I am not building
19:05 Limbic_Region Win32 is binary distro
19:05 [particle] perhaps extralibs should be included with binary distros automatically
19:06 cmarcelo hmm;.. maybe.. but I think the binary dist maybe ready to compile this extralibs.. ii'm d/ling it to check..
19:07 Limbic_Region cmarclo - there is a makefile so perhaps I can still do it
19:07 * Limbic_Region tries stuff all willy nilly
19:07 TreyHarris gaal: will try to find the tuit.  in the meantime, documented it in TASKS.
19:07 TreyHarris gaal: thanks
19:08 gaal TreyHarris++
19:08 svnbot6 r12930 | trey++ | [TASKS]
19:08 svnbot6 r12930 | trey++ | Documented need to add gen_prelude flag to build_pugs and Makefile.PL
19:08 TreyHarris ?eval ({a => 'a'}, {b => 'b'})
19:08 evalbot_12927 is now known as evalbot_12929
19:08 evalbot_12929 user error (Incompatible version number for compilation unit Consider removing blib6/lib/Prelude.pm.yml and make it again ) ({("a" => "a"),}, {("b" => "b"),})
19:08 Limbic_Region cmarcelo - fwiw, they did decide to remove it as it is in the extralibs
19:09 gaal TreyHarris: still works :)
19:09 TreyHarris still segfaulting me.  dunno how to write a test for it though
19:09 cmarcelo Limbic_Region: i just saw it.. well, i gotta go, but people in #haskell can help you building the extralibs...
19:10 Limbic_Region k
19:10 Limbic_Region will wander over there
19:11 gaal bbiab
19:12 svnbot6 r12931 | gaal++ | * Pugs.Parser: parse out sigils for labels correctly, and some cleanups.
19:14 cmarcelo bbl &
19:17 onsen joined perl6
19:17 TreyHarris is there a pugs variable to tell me the GHC version?
19:22 gaal no, but it's worth adding one :)
19:23 gaal it could be done in PugsConfig.pm
19:30 cm joined perl6
19:32 gaal :($x where {...} is elk)  -- legal? is the trait on $x or on the where constraint?
19:33 gaal :($x is ro, is rw)   -- legal? is $x ro or rw?
19:33 gaal (do commas separate traits?
19:33 gaal )
19:38 crem joined perl6
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19:51 Limbic_Region gaal - it appears no response in #haskell so I must go for the weekend
19:51 Limbic_Region will likely pop back on from home
19:51 Limbic_Region TTFN
19:54 mdiep joined perl6
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20:08 gaal Limbic_Region: a proper bug report (to the tracking system or via email) is pefered.
20:08 gaal audreyt: Pugs.Val.Code.Param does not, I think, have a way to express the ::T in Dog ::T $fido.
20:09 gaal zzZ&
20:19 meppl joined perl6
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20:39 Limbic_Region gaal ping
20:39 Limbic_Region audreyt ping
20:42 svnbot6 r12932 | trey++ | Made a util/test_loh_segfault.pl to try to
20:42 svnbot6 r12932 | trey++ | nail down this list-of-hashes weirdness.
20:42 svnbot6 r12932 | trey++ | Please try it.
20:43 TreyHarris please try the above and let me know if it's broken... if not, i'm going to post it to p6-u to try to collect some data
20:43 * TreyHarris &'s for an hour or so
20:48 mauke_ is now known as mauke
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21:06 * Limbic_Region gives up and decides to build GHC from source
21:06 * Limbic_Region shakes his fist in the air first
21:06 cm_ on win32?
21:07 Limbic_Region yes
21:07 Limbic_Region the current binary build is b0rk
21:07 Limbic_Region and I know why
21:07 cm_ awesome, are you gonna share the binaries once you're done? :D
21:08 Limbic_Region cm_ - you can download the binaries from the net
21:08 Limbic_Region unless you want today's binary build which is broke
21:08 Limbic_Region I can't get any help on #haskell
21:08 cm_ GHC 6.6 / win32? where?
21:08 Limbic_Region cm_ - no, that's the release candidate that's broke
21:08 PerlJam Limbic_Region: starting work on Strawberry and Vanilla pugs?  ;)
21:08 Limbic_Region you can get 6.5 though
21:08 Limbic_Region PerlJam - not exactly
21:09 crem_ joined perl6
21:10 cm_ ah, hmm..
21:12 Limbic_Region problem is that 6.6rc requires happy 1.15 to build
21:12 Limbic_Region and there are only Win32 binaries for 1.13
21:12 Limbic_Region which means I need to build happy from source
21:12 Limbic_Region and that is proving to be a bit difficult
21:13 cm_ is happy using c?
21:13 Limbic_Region no - ghc
21:13 Limbic_Region circular dependency
21:13 cm_ can't you just build happy using an old ghc?
21:13 Limbic_Region fortunately that's not a problem
21:13 cm_ 6.4
21:13 Limbic_Region actually - 6.5
21:13 Limbic_Region but yeah
21:14 sili-babypuncher joined perl6
21:14 Limbic_Region but I am getting a "LALR.lhs:626:34: Not in scope: `bounds'"
21:14 Limbic_Region so perhaps I am not going to build from source
21:16 sili-babypuncher audreyt: present? i've got a problem trying to install Language::MzScheme: http://sial.org/pbot/19413
21:16 lambdabot Title: Paste #19413 from "sili" at 65.119.25.146
21:17 dolmen joined perl6
21:18 sili-babypuncher maybe it has something to do with me not being able to find a scheme.h
21:18 lichtkind joined perl6
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21:41 integral_ is now known as integral
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22:12 svnbot6 r12933 | markstos++ | refine Regexes and Rules section in Differences.pod
22:15 weinig|away is now known as weinig
22:15 svnbot6 r12934 | markstos++ | minor syntax fixes in Differences.pod
22:40 Limbic_Region gaal ping
22:40 Limbic_Region audreyt ping
22:40 Limbic_Region cm_ ping
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23:27 Alias_ joined perl6
23:27 Alias_ seen TimToady?
23:28 Alias_ (dammit when will you people get something that supports seen)
23:28 wolverian ?seen timtoady
23:28 lambdabot timtoady is in #perl6. I don't know when timtoady last spoke.
23:28 wolverian well, that was useful
23:28 Alias_ ... and works
23:28 wolverian he hasn't spoken here in a few days, or so.. not in my backlog anyway. sec
23:28 Alias_ Must be caught up at YAPC::EU
23:29 Alias_ ok, thanks
23:29 wolverian 2006-08-31 13:35:38   TimToady : which is how you do a sublanguage...
23:29 wolverian that's the latest entry in my log
23:30 penk joined perl6
23:30 * Alias_ is trying to work out how to tell the different between C<   { a => 1 }  > and C< { print 'Hello World!' } > in Perl 5
23:30 Alias_ i.e. Telling an anon hash-ref from a block
23:34 diakopter my guess is that it's assumed to be a block unless it could be parsed as either an empty hashref or a hashref with at least one pair.
23:35 Limbic_Region audreyt - if you backlog - see http://paste.lisp.org/display/25124
23:36 Alias_ diakopter: The tricky bit is how does perl tell, and can I simulate it closely enough
23:36 Limbic_Region I worked with #haskell to get Pugs to almost compile with the current binary distro (6.6 rc)
23:36 diakopter a hashref will always be part of, or fully define a single expression, right?
23:38 diakopter whereas a block can't appear inside of an expression, right?  unless its marked by sub or something?
23:38 diakopter please excuse my naivete
23:39 Alias_ Well, more subtle
23:39 Alias_ Blocks can appear inside statements
23:39 Alias_ However a block on it's own is one variation of a "compound statement"
23:39 Alias_ Specifically, it is the smallest form of LABEL BLOCK continue BLOCK
23:39 Alias_ Where "compound statement" includes if and while and so on
23:40 Alias_ So C<  { print 1 }   > is quite different to C<    do { print 1 }    >
23:40 Alias_ The former, the block is the statement, the latter the block is within the statement
23:40 diakopter okay, so control structure markers in addition to subs
23:40 Alias_ Because in the latter you can do { block } or do { block } etc
23:41 Alias_ It's more like do( sub { ... } )
23:42 Alias_ There's a lot of places something is a block, but not lexically significant
23:42 Alias_ grep { }
23:43 Alias_ et al
23:47 plisk__ joined perl6
23:48 diakopter Alias_: are all the working perl golf submissions part of the PPI test suite ... heh.
23:48 Alias_ patches welcome
23:50 diakopter Alias_: do the cpan's modules have metrics that indicate how much ram they use when loaded into various perls (mod_perl, etc)?
23:51 Alias_ No, and it will vary enormously
23:51 Alias_ And even with your version of Perl, as various structures change size
23:52 diakopter well sure, but I mean with a mere "use"
23:52 Alias_ That requires compilation
23:52 diakopter surely there's some kind of rough relative scale
23:52 Alias_ And has other issues, like do you count deps etc
23:52 Alias_ I do it by hand for a few of the ::Tiny modules
23:52 diakopter i was imagining not counting deps.  exclusive usage.
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