Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2006-09-05

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:01 TreyHarris anyone here who has a moment to look at a few lines of MMD logic to see if it's sane?
00:04 weinig is now known as weinig|bbl
00:11 markstos TreyHarris: Still there? I'll look at MMD
00:12 markstos You might check examples/dispatch_quiz.pl though-- it shows some cases that I think are bugs.
00:13 pasteling "TreyHarris" at 216.254.17.198 pasted "markstos: have a look" (16 lines, 412B) at http://sial.org/pbot/19457
00:13 markstos will do. give me 5.
00:13 TreyHarris thx
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00:15 markstos TreyHarris. I think it's sane, but pugs is buggy WRT () vs (*%h)
00:15 markstos That's one of the cases in the dispatch_quiz.pl
00:16 markstos I would be more assertive about creating related tests, but the spec is not detailed about how MMD happens with optional and slurpy fields.
00:16 markstos I asked p6l to clarify recently
00:16 markstos and you may recall I also added some related language to mmd-draft.txt
00:17 markstos To get code working, I combined the () and (*%h) cases into one method ...
00:17 markstos with an  "if %h { ... }" clause.
00:17 TreyHarris right.  this is for a draft i'm writing, so it doesn't have to work :-)
00:18 TreyHarris yet.
00:18 TreyHarris thanks much
00:18 markstos Let me check the dispatch quiz result.
00:19 markstos Those are actually the first a second tests in the quiz. Pugs does different things for subs and methods in that case!
00:20 TreyHarris *grin*
00:20 markstos The subs case looks correct, it sends (a => 'b') to (*%h).
00:20 markstos the multi method case sends ( a=>'b') to (), which seems ... wrong.
00:24 TreyHarris yes
00:24 markstos I'll go ahead and poke around to make sure it is covered by a test.
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00:26 markstos Yes, it looks like I already made a failing test for it in t/oo/methods/multi.t
00:26 markstos (And 3 other cases from the quiz!)
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01:16 nothingmuch wow, adding roles made it even slower =)
01:17 TreyHarris whoo-hooh!  push for O(Inf)!
01:17 nothingmuch ;-)
01:17 nothingmuch push for correctness actually
01:17 nothingmuch i am explicitly not memoizing anything
01:18 nothingmuch http://nothingmuch.woobling.org/MO/t/roles.t
01:18 TreyHarris O(Inf) is just, after all, O(c), which is equivalent to O(1)....
01:18 nothingmuch heh
01:18 nothingmuch porting this 1:1 to haskell should speed it up a bit
01:19 nothingmuch i also want to wirte Moose::Aspect::Memoize
01:19 nothingmuch which implicitly declares attrs over methods
01:19 nothingmuch and does auto caching
01:19 nothingmuch with lazy => 1
01:19 nothingmuch and auto expires caches using triggers
01:19 nothingmuch which should bring this impl closer to the haskell version in terms of O(n) complexity
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01:29 nothingmuch audreyt: when you backlog: http://nothingmuch.woobling.org/MO/t/roles.t
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02:12 markstos ?eval class Foo { has $.a; method a { delete $.a } } Foo.new.a;
02:12 evalbot_13026 is now known as evalbot_13028
02:12 evalbot_13028 ()
02:12 markstos Shouldn't it throw an error to try to delete something that's not a hash or array element ?
02:12 * markstos checks the spec
02:16 markstos I don't see this behavior spec'ed. I'll review the tests, and test for the kind of msg Perl 5 would throw:
02:16 markstos delete argument is not a HASH or ARRAY element or slice
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02:25 svnbot6 r13029 | markstos++ | [t/builtins/arrays_and_hashes/delete.t]
02:25 svnbot6 r13029 | markstos++ | New failing test for delete: mis-use of delete should return:
02:25 svnbot6 r13029 | markstos++ | Argument is not a Hash or Array element or slice
02:31 SamB @timefor audreyt
02:31 lambdabot Unknown command, try @list
02:31 SamB @localtime audreyt
02:31 lambdabot Local time for audreyt is Tue Sep  5 04:31:39 2006
02:32 markstos @localtime markstos
02:32 lambdabot Local time for markstos is Mon Sep 4 22:28:16 2006
02:33 markstos That's the wrong time for Audreyt. It's reporting the time on feather, which is located in France I believe.
02:33 markstos Audrey's localtime is Tues, 10:28am, I think.
02:49 bsb hi markstos, I just responded to your p6l qn
02:50 bsb with non-authoritative guesses :)
02:52 weinig|bbl is now known as weinig
02:52 markstos bsb: thanks
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02:53 TreyHarris @localtime TreyHarris
02:53 lambdabot Local time for TreyHarris is Mon Sep  4 19:53:36 2006
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02:55 weinig is now known as weinig|zZz
02:55 TreyHarris anyone know if there's a way to tell a mac's dvd drive to spin down?  i TSTP'd the program that was using it, but it still spins....
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03:18 syntaxfree my Mini does that sometime.
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03:44 TreyHarris how can I require an arbitrary file not in @*INC?
03:45 TreyHarris ah, evalfile
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04:08 masak @localtime masak
04:08 lambdabot Local time for masak is Tue Sep  5 06:08:26
04:08 masak yep
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04:59 agentzh markstos: in case you don't know, there's a even shorter url for http://feather.perl6.nl, that is, http://perlcabal.org, which points to exactly the same IP.
04:59 lambdabot Title: Perl6 Community Development Server
05:00 agentzh (bbiab)
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05:09 audreyt yeah, I registered it and used it as a, sortof ironic, sister domain to http://perlcabal.com
05:09 lambdabot Title: 404 Not Found
05:10 audreyt (don't be fooled by the 404 :))
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05:19 * araujo coding a bit on the Types Graph
05:19 audreyt araujo++
05:19 araujo :-)
05:19 araujo hi there audreyt
05:20 audreyt heya
05:20 * audreyt at $job
05:21 * araujo is _supposed_ to be UP within 4 hours :-)
05:22 audreyt wow :)
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05:32 gaal hey
05:37 gaal audreyt: I'd like to fix the use of existentialCoerce in Parser 1428 (that is, change Param.p_unpacking back to Maybe PureSig)
05:37 gaal but as it is there's a type error
05:41 gaal I hate it when Code.hs becomes stale. /me splines for the beziers or ghc 6.6
05:54 TreyHarris erm.
05:54 TreyHarris ?eval sub foo($a) { say "hi $a" }; foo("mom")
05:55 evalbot_13028 is now known as evalbot_13029
05:55 evalbot_13029 OUTPUT[hi mom ] Bool::True
05:55 TreyHarris ok, wasn't sure it was allowed to leave out the space between the subname and the sig
05:57 gaal you are, but the style used thoroughly in existing code is to use the space there.
05:58 gaal this makes me wonder though if the space is optional here: sub foo:($a) { ... }
05:59 gaal (a Sig in a sub decl really is a Sig, dropping the colon is "just" an abbreviation)
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06:00 TreyHarris well, method self:meth can be defined for .= meth operations, but I don't think that causes any ambiguity
06:01 * araujo off to sleep
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06:07 TreyHarris is there a Perl 5 impl of sub MAIN yet?
06:08 gaal I haven't heard of one
06:28 jdv79 MAIN?
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06:33 kasei does anyone know if new ghc dists are being compiled for debian stable?
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06:58 TreyHarris gaal: how do I refer to the current type symbolically?  "my $?CLASS $x" doesn't work, nor would I expect it to...
06:58 gaal jdv79: it's a mechanism for a default entry point to executables, that takes care of command line options automatically
06:59 gaal TreyHarris: in signatures?
06:59 TreyHarris signatures or storage defs
06:59 gaal you need to already have bound a tyvar, so this:
07:00 gaal :(Mammal ::T $x, ::T y)
07:00 gaal will bind ::T to say Moose at call time
07:00 gaal er, that's $y in there
07:00 gaal I don't know how to bind a tyvar in other scopes so that your example works
07:03 TreyHarris hmmm.  i should be able to write class Moose { method clone ( --> <mumble>) { ... } } without making <mumble> eq "Moose"
07:05 TreyHarris I kinda think 'Self' (capital S) should work
07:05 TreyHarris or maybe SELF
07:06 gaal better ask the oo guys. from my unwashed viewpoint, I don't see that Moose should know how to clone arbitrary types correctly, though sure, superficially it should be able to.
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07:14 TreyHarris hmm.  looks like ::?Class may be what I'm looking for
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07:33 svnbot6 r13030 | gaal++ | * fix 'make ghci' on colinux and possibly Windows. I hope this doesn't
07:33 svnbot6 r13030 | gaal++ |   break it elsewhere.
07:33 svnbot6 r13030 | gaal++ | * noticed that assert_ghc in Module::Install::Pugs litters ghc_flags
07:33 svnbot6 r13030 | gaal++ |   with threading options coming from perl5, so I added a crutch to
07:33 svnbot6 r13030 | gaal++ |   filter those out via the environment (set PUGS_NO_THREADS). I don't
07:33 svnbot6 r13030 | gaal++ |   know if this should be moved to config.yml, or be made to use some
07:33 svnbot6 r13030 | gaal++ |   heuristic to just do the right thing automatically (if there is a
07:33 svnbot6 r13030 | gaal++ |   right thing here: can ghci work correctly when linked against a
07:33 svnbot6 r13030 | gaal++ |   threaded perl5?).
07:37 gaal wow! pugs in ghci shares readline buffers with its ghci! that's so cool
07:42 svnbot6 r13031 | gaal++ | * fix whitespace bug in Signature parsing, reported by salty-horse++:
07:42 svnbot6 r13031 | gaal++ |      :($x = 42 is rw)
07:42 svnbot6 r13031 | gaal++ |   now parses again.
07:44 lumi ls
07:45 gaal . ..
07:45 lumi Erp. Wrong window
07:45 lumi Wrong computer
07:45 lumi Wrong os, even
07:46 gaal Did you get the universe right?
07:46 lumi Yes, it's a start, right?
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07:49 gaal what does the Param object look like in unspecified-invocant Sigs? :( : $moose)
07:50 gaal is there a varname? $?SELF would be wrong
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08:12 TreyHarris 'self'?  it's what you use when you don't specify a varname...
08:16 gaal it's a callconv question, I guess. you can't do this after all: foo( self => $obj )
08:16 gaal hmm, maybe you can?
08:16 gaal but that means there can be no parameters called self.
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08:28 ruoso http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=571140
08:28 lambdabot Title: Mary had a Little Camel
08:28 ruoso one of the most fun posts I read in the last weeks
08:33 svnbot6 r13032 | trey++ | [t/oo/attributes/recursive.t]
08:33 svnbot6 r13032 | trey++ | Added new tests for recursive classes--
08:33 svnbot6 r13032 | trey++ | classes with attributes of the same type
08:33 svnbot6 r13032 | trey++ | as the class (or the ::?CLASS symbolic name).
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08:43 TreyHarris oops
08:43 TreyHarris karma classes
08:43 TreyHarris perlbot: karma classes
08:43 perlbot Karma for classes: -2
08:43 TreyHarris classes++
08:43 TreyHarris classes++
08:43 TreyHarris perlbot: karma classes
08:43 perlbot classes doesn't have any karma
08:43 TreyHarris better :-)
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08:45 * drrho is away: cinema
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09:36 gaal audreyt: I don't understand dist/build: why are some things under src/ there and some not?
09:36 gaal I'm getting errors linking Pugszm6zi2zi12_PugsziEmbedz​iPerl5_perl5zueval_closure
09:37 gaal the symbol is in dist/build/Pugs/Embed/Perl5.o
09:37 gaal why not dist/build/src etc.?
09:39 gaal the actual error is after 'make ghci', running 'main' in the ghci prompt:
09:39 gaal <interactive>: src/Pugs/Run/Perl5_stub.o: unknown symbol `Pugszm6zi2zi12_PugsziRunziP​erl5_zdfpugszueval_closure'
09:39 gaal I had it working for a blissful hour :(
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09:46 svnbot6 r13033 | trey++ | [util/version_h.pl]
09:46 svnbot6 r13033 | trey++ | Script expects cwd to be base of the working
09:46 svnbot6 r13033 | trey++ | copy.  Made that so when using svn.  I don't
09:46 svnbot6 r13033 | trey++ | know how to do it with svk, so hopefully
09:46 svnbot6 r13033 | trey++ | someone else can come behind and fix that.
09:46 svnbot6 r13033 | trey++ | It's no more broken for svk than it was
09:46 svnbot6 r13033 | trey++ | before...
09:46 svnbot6 r13033 | trey++ | [util/smartlinks.pl]
09:46 svnbot6 r13033 | trey++ | Made file executable
09:52 svnbot6 r13034 | trey++ | [t/oo/attributes/class.t]
09:52 svnbot6 r13034 | trey++ | Tests for Class.^attr syntax;
09:52 svnbot6 r13034 | trey++ | better smartlinks
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10:08 svnbot6 r13035 | trey++ | [t/blocks/return.t]
10:08 svnbot6 r13035 | trey++ | Fixed old slurpy syntax
10:11 _meppl is now known as meppl
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10:20 svnbot6 r13036 | trey++ | [t/blocks/return_function.t]
10:20 svnbot6 r13036 | trey++ | Fixed smartlink; added an actual test for
10:20 svnbot6 r13036 | trey++ | a line that was tried but whose value was
10:20 svnbot6 r13036 | trey++ | thrown away.
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12:36 audreyt gaal: oy. the idea is that "make ghci" should ignore embedding
12:37 audreyt and _not_ link in Perl5_stub
12:37 audreyt i.e. you never get p5embed in ghci
12:37 audreyt can you simply remove the _stub.o in src/?
12:37 audreyt "make ghci" uses src/ to put the .o files
12:37 audreyt normal "make" uses dist/build/
12:37 audreyt totally separate spaces
12:38 audreyt (I lost my old laptop's adaptor at $job, and new MacBook is still running ddrescue, so I'm stuck on this iBook G4 without much productivity tonight :/)
12:38 audreyt hopefully ddrescue will finish on tomorrow morning
12:39 audreyt markstos++ # subtle nuge at pugs.blogs.com for full MOP dispatch support
12:39 audreyt nudge, even
12:39 audreyt and with that... over and out for tonight :) &
12:40 Limbic_Region yeah - that one liner is quite impressive when taking in context of the amount of p5 code it is replacing
12:40 Limbic_Region sleep well audreyt
12:41 Limbic_Region dunno if it is a good thing or not, but the binary snapshots appear to have ceased being built as of the 1st
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12:57 svnbot6 r13037 | agentz++ | [util/smartlinks.pl]
12:57 svnbot6 r13037 | agentz++ | - various English fixes from Sun Xin++ for the Pod.
12:59 SamB ?eval 1
12:59 evalbot_13029 is now known as evalbot_13037
12:59 evalbot_13037 1
13:03 SamB @tell audreyt please restart evalbot-loop, kthxbye!
13:03 lambdabot Consider it noted.
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13:20 svnbot6 r13038 | agentz++ | [t/syntax/unicode.t]
13:20 svnbot6 r13038 | agentz++ | - broke too long lines
13:20 svnbot6 r13038 | agentz++ | - used eval_is to work around a parsefail.
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13:25 agentzh audreyt: there's a typo in S04: "When used as statement modifers".
13:26 agentzh audreyt: it should have been "modifiers"
13:29 svnbot6 r13039 | agentz++ | [t/statements/modifiers/for.t]
13:29 svnbot6 r13039 | agentz++ | - adjusted the order of the tests a bit.
13:33 SamB agentzh: looks like she went to bed
13:33 agentzh SamB: oh, she sleeps quite early now. :)
13:33 svnbot6 r13040 | agentz++ | [util/smartlinks.pl]
13:33 svnbot6 r13040 | agentz++ | - now we would not try any further if the first match
13:33 svnbot6 r13040 | agentz++ |   of a certain smartlink had been found.
13:34 agentzh it's just 21:32 in her timezone. :)
13:34 SamB heh
13:35 Limbic_Region well, I don't think she sleeps on a regular schedule
13:35 agentzh hehe
13:35 Limbic_Region and if she has been up for a prolonged period of time and tomorrow is a $work day - she may just be ensuring she gets some rest
13:35 Limbic_Region and judging from her over and out, I don't think she has gone to sleep - just off channel so she doesn't get distracted
13:38 SamB oh
13:38 SamB hmm
13:39 SamB she did say &
13:39 SamB that does sort of imply some kind of continued activity
13:39 theorbtwo People on this channel tend to always say &.
13:44 Limbic_Region normally it is /me & #<verb that will take us away from the channel for an extended period of time>
13:44 Limbic_Region as in /me & # sleep
13:45 lumi #perl6 madlibs
13:46 Limbic_Region s/libs//
13:46 Limbic_Region ;-)
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13:51 Limbic_Region anyone else having trouble building an optimized pugs?
13:52 Limbic_Region or rather - the pugs portion completes ok - it is the post build activities such as P::C::R
13:53 pasteling "Limbic_Region" at 129.33.119.12 pasted "Current Pugs build output" (147 lines, 12.4K) at http://sial.org/pbot/19463
13:53 svnbot6 r13041 | agentz++ | [t/TASKS]
13:53 svnbot6 r13041 | agentz++ | - added one task of updating legacy smartlink notations
13:53 svnbot6 r13041 | agentz++ |   in the test suite.
13:53 Limbic_Region I have a pugs.exe but apparently it is somewhat b0rk
13:59 svnbot6 r13042 | agentz++ | [t/README]
13:59 svnbot6 r13042 | agentz++ | - mentioned the URL http://perlcabal.org/syn/ there
13:59 lambdabot Title: Official Perl 6 Documentation
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14:19 gaal audreyt: yay, rm src/Pugs/Run/Perl5_stub.o worked!
14:19 svnbot6 r13043 | agentz++ | [util/smartlinks.pl]
14:19 svnbot6 r13043 | agentz++ | - added support for generic links used in the test suite.
14:19 svnbot6 r13043 | agentz++ |   Notations like
14:19 svnbot6 r13043 | agentz++ |     L<http://blah.blah.blah>
14:19 svnbot6 r13043 | agentz++ |   and
14:19 svnbot6 r13043 | agentz++ |     L<"http://foo.baz.bah">
14:19 svnbot6 r13043 | agentz++ |   are both recognized.
14:20 gaal however: what I don't understand is something about src/ *under dist*.
14:20 gaal under some circumstances, files get put there *not* under src
14:21 gaal that is, dist/build/Pugs/* instead of dist/build/src/Pugs/*
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14:22 gaal right now for example I have both dist/build/Pugs/Embed/Perl5.o and dist/build/src/Pugs/Embed/Perl5.o
14:29 svnbot6 r13044 | agentz++ | [util/get-irc-logs.pl]
14:29 svnbot6 r13044 | agentz++ | - fixed the --channel option
14:29 svnbot6 r13044 | agentz++ | - changed the --out-dir option to ordinary command line
14:29 svnbot6 r13044 | agentz++ |   argument.
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14:54 Limbic_Region gaal - did you see my nopaste and does it make any sense to you?
14:54 gaal didn't see, looking now
14:55 gaal hm looks like a ghc thing.
14:55 gaal does manual yml creation work sometimes?
14:55 gaal .\pugs.exe -CParse-YAML ext\Test\lib\Test.pm > blib6\lib\Test.pm.yml
14:59 gaal if that doesn't work, try
14:59 gaal .\pugs +RTS -A10m -RTS -CParse-YAML ext\Test\lib\Test.pm > blib6\lib\Test.pm.yml
15:00 gaal also try -H200m
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15:05 Limbic_Region gaal - sorry, was afk
15:05 weinig joined perl6
15:05 gaal no worries
15:05 Limbic_Region no, the first one doesn't work
15:06 Limbic_Region though it did yesterday from home
15:06 * Limbic_Region is using GHC 6.6rc btw
15:06 Limbic_Region second one fails with same error
15:06 gaal how big does the pugs get before dying?
15:06 Limbic_Region pugs: getMBlocks: VirtualAlloc MEM_COMMIT failed: The parameter is incorrect.
15:06 Limbic_Region not sure how to answer that
15:07 Limbic_Region the pugs process ?
15:07 Limbic_Region it returns almost immediately so not much chance to check the process table
15:07 gaal yes. use Process Explorer?
15:07 gaal oh
15:07 gaal that's.. interesting
15:08 gaal does this only happen with Test.yml? if you try to compile (say) the prelude again, does it also happen?
15:08 Limbic_Region yes, much too fast for me to read it
15:08 Limbic_Region and I would try and compile the prelude again how?
15:09 gaal just put it as the arg for .\pugs.exe -CParse-YAML
15:09 gaal instead of Test.pm
15:09 gaal src/perl6/Prelude.pm
15:09 Limbic_Region k, just a sec
15:13 Limbic_Region same error gaal
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15:14 gaal so from within make, it worked ok (your nopaste showed the prelude turned out fine) but subsequently it fails.
15:14 gaal oh!
15:14 yhsuan_ is now known as yhsuan
15:14 gaal try del blib6\lib\Prelude.pm.yml
15:14 gaal and then gen some .pm file
15:14 Limbic_Region just a sec
15:15 gaal or maybe, even before that
15:15 gaal how big is that file?
15:15 gaal the .yml
15:15 Limbic_Region 727,460
15:15 gaal hm no, that's kinda reasonable
15:16 gaal ok, try removing it and genning something.
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15:17 Limbic_Region same error
15:17 gaal well, then I don't understand how the first gen succeeded
15:17 gaal nmake again? (no clean)
15:17 Limbic_Region tried that
15:18 Limbic_Region no diff
15:18 Limbic_Region that's one of the things I tried in between your "try this"
15:18 gaal hm. ok. walk away from the computer please for a few minutes, then try genning again. keep the computer idle while you're away.
15:19 Limbic_Region did that too
15:19 Limbic_Region between the time I pasted the error and when I asked you if you had seen it
15:19 [particle] did you kick it?
15:19 Limbic_Region that I haven't done
15:19 gaal do you have something that can show cpu temperatures? SpeedFan or something?
15:20 Limbic_Region no
15:20 gaal try installing one of those. also, try rebooting (no kidding).
15:20 * Limbic_Region is about to realclean, svn up, reboot, nmake
15:20 Limbic_Region gaal - I can't install one of those (work machine)
15:20 Limbic_Region but the reboot is on my radar as indicated above
15:20 gaal don't realclean yet
15:20 Limbic_Region ok - just the reboot
15:20 gaal actually
15:21 gaal do a hard shutdown, wait five, start up
15:21 Limbic_Region ok - see you in a few
15:22 gaal (ghc predicted a cpu death on my computer once.)
15:22 xerox ?remember gaal (ghc predicted a cpu death on my computer once.)
15:22 xerox hahahaha.
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15:22 gaal it did!
15:23 xerox How?
15:24 gaal it kept giving random errors at different stages of compilation.
15:25 gaal hm. how do I get a 'fail' to propagate upwards? here's my situation:
15:25 xerox I see..
15:25 xerox You'd better ask on #haskell, I've gotta dash in a moment.
15:25 gaal nyeh
15:25 gaal see you
15:26 * gaal stares at his code some more
15:26 [particle] ooh, a staring contest.
15:26 * [particle] watches intently
15:32 hexmode joined perl6
15:34 nothingmuch m
15:34 gaal oose
15:38 c6rbon joined perl6
15:41 pasteling "[particle]" at 144.81.84.141 pasted "make unoptimized fails w/ghc 6.4.1 on win32 for rHEAD" (512 lines, 25.6K) at http://sial.org/pbot/19465
15:43 [particle] could be processor heat death :P
15:43 svnbot6 r13045 | gaal++ | * Signature parser: more whitespace fixes, and handle method signatures
15:43 svnbot6 r13045 | gaal++ |   with default invocant:
15:43 svnbot6 r13045 | gaal++ |     :(: $x)
15:43 svnbot6 r13045 | gaal++ |   The Param consturucted for this is perhaps a little shoddy still.
15:43 svnbot6 r13045 | gaal++ |   (i.e. what's its intended varname?)
15:43 svnbot6 r13045 | gaal++ | * traceM, a golf course in the desert.
15:49 gaal wow, glimpse++:
15:50 gaal (cd ghc-sources ; glimpseindex -o .)
15:50 gaal glimpse "^!* ::"
15:50 gaal er, alias hf glimpse "^!* ::"
15:50 gaal now 'hf lookAhead' is like, instantaneous
15:51 xerox Hey. What is hf?
15:51 gaal a shell alias :)
15:51 xerox Tags?
15:51 gaal scroll back three lines
15:52 xerox I don't know what glimpse is.
15:52 gaal @google glimpse search
15:52 lambdabot http://webglimpse.net/
15:52 lambdabot Title: Webglimpse and Glimpse: advanced site search software for Unix : index websites  ...
15:53 * Daveman waves to xerox
15:53 xerox Yuck.
15:53 gaal actually this is a better link: http://webglimpse.net/gdocs/glimpsehelp.html
15:53 lambdabot Title: Glimpse manual page(1)
15:54 gaal what are you yucking about?
15:54 c6rbon joined perl6
15:55 xerox Thanks.
15:56 onsen joined perl6
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16:15 gaal Parser:1406 looks almost like it could be golfed into a State monad...
16:26 kanru joined perl6
16:26 Psyche^ is now known as Patterner
16:29 Limbic_Region joined perl6
16:30 Limbic_Region gaal - left it powered off the entirety of lunch, same exact error
16:30 Limbic_Region rebuilding from scratch now
16:31 [particle] l_r: i'm having trouble building with 6.4.1
16:32 [particle] "make unoptimized fails w/ghc 6.4.1 on win32 for rHEAD" (512 lines, 25.6K) at http://sial.org/pbot/19465
16:32 lambdabot Title: Paste #19465 from "[particle]" at 144.81.84.141
16:33 sili-babypuncher left perl6
16:35 Limbic_Region looking particle though I will only be guessing if I offer any advice
16:35 [particle] yeah, i figured it was unrelated to your error
16:36 Limbic_Region particle - you could try disabling perl5 embedding
16:36 Limbic_Region since that is where it is failing
16:37 Limbic_Region set PUGS_EMBED="!perl5"
16:37 [particle] i guess it's defaulting to that embedding
16:37 [particle] i haven't set any special env vars
16:37 Limbic_Region yes, p5 embedding is enabled by default now
16:37 Limbic_Region you have to specifically tell it not to if you don't want it
16:37 Limbic_Region this btw is not a fix, just a workaround (presuming it works)
16:38 [particle] do i need makefile.pl again?
16:38 Limbic_Region the issue apparently is with some conflicting header files
16:38 Limbic_Region particle, I never risk it - I always realclean;svn up;makefile;etc
16:38 [particle] perhaps it's perl-version dependent?
16:38 [particle] i'm on 5.8.6
16:38 Limbic_Region AS Perl?
16:38 [particle] yep
16:38 Limbic_Region I believe it has been certified to be working with AS and Vanilla Perl
16:39 Limbic_Region not sure about versions
16:39 [particle] i'll kick the certifier :)
16:39 Limbic_Region in any case make unoptimized is easier spelt make fast
16:39 Limbic_Region it appears to be an issue with conflicting header files
16:39 [particle] i'll retrain my fingers :)
16:39 Limbic_Region the certifier likely didn't try with ghc 6.4.1
16:40 [particle] i'm hoping to go direct to 6.6
16:40 SubStack joined perl6
16:40 [particle] i don't want to install yet another ghc version
16:40 Limbic_Region well, you shouldn't have to
16:41 Limbic_Region but do try disabling perl5 embedding
16:41 Odin- joined perl6
16:41 [particle] i'm recompiling now
16:41 Limbic_Region fwiw, the conflict appears to be between usr/local/perl/lib/CORE/win32.h and /usr/local/ghc/ghc-6.4.1/include/mingw/stdint.h
16:42 avarab is now known as avar
16:49 xerox You surely know this one: how is it called the env var of a shell script that contains the number of arguments passed?
16:50 fglock joined perl6
16:51 Limbic_Region xerox - what kind of shell?
16:51 Limbic_Region sorry, was AFK
16:51 xerox bash
16:51 xerox hmm
16:51 xerox sh in fact.
16:51 Limbic_Region shouldn't matter much
16:51 Limbic_Region let me check - been a while since I did any shell programming
16:52 xerox For me too :(
16:52 mauke_ joined perl6
16:52 xerox I ought to do a script that lets people add packages to hackage, in order to use them with cabal-install.
16:52 Limbic_Region $* is all of them right?
16:52 Limbic_Region so wouldn't it just be $# ?
16:53 xerox That's right! Thank you.
16:53 Limbic_Region no worries - had to stop and think about it
16:53 araujo joined perl6
16:53 xerox I'll need to do some sed/awk/perl(?) hackery for this thing, gawk... it's ages since I did these kind of things.
16:54 c6rbon_ joined perl6
16:54 Limbic_Region well, if this is to be portable - be sure not to assume versions of any of them
16:54 Limbic_Region gawk != awk and what not
16:56 xerox haha, I meant it as an exclamation, gawk1
16:56 xerox gawk!
16:57 Limbic_Region heh
17:01 Limbic_Region well, I used to do an extensive amount of shell scripting with sed and awk so if you need help let me know
17:05 * Limbic_Region likes to feel useful every now and then
17:07 mauke_ is now known as mauke
17:09 xerox Limbic_Region: still around?
17:09 Limbic_Region in and out
17:09 Limbic_Region but if you have questions I will stick around
17:10 xerox Yes! thank you.
17:10 Limbic_Region shoot
17:10 xerox I need to do these steps:
17:10 xerox ./cabal-put foo-1.0.tar.gz
17:10 xerox 1. check the filename format is correct: PACKAGE-VERSION.tar.gz
17:10 xerox 2. check that it unpacks to (case-sensitively) the same PACKAGE-VERSION/ dir
17:11 xerox 3. check it exists (case-sensitively) PACKAGE-VERSION/PACKAGE.cabal
17:11 xerox 4. check .cabal contains 'name: PACKAGE' and 'version: VERSION', 'name' and 'version' case-insensistively (one can use Name or name, and so on), while PACKAGE case-sensitively
17:11 Limbic_Region is there a 4?
17:12 Limbic_Region let me know when you have provided the last step
17:12 xerox 5. copy out .cabal to foo/PACKAGE/PACKAGE-VERSION.cabal and .tar.gz to the same dir.  (foo is the base-packages-dir)
17:12 xerox Done.
17:13 xerox How would you do that?
17:13 Limbic_Region ok - so we are assuming bash/sh/ksh type shell
17:13 Limbic_Region and sed and/or awk but no perl?
17:13 xerox Let me see
17:13 xerox This is perl, v5.8.4 built for i386-linux-thread-multi
17:13 xerox I can use this perl too
17:14 Limbic_Region oh, well then there is no need for a shell script at all
17:14 xerox Except I can't maintain the perl thing
17:14 xerox But well, yeah.
17:14 Limbic_Region ok - well I will just do shell with sed then
17:14 xerox Oh well
17:14 xerox If the perl one is easyer
17:14 xerox *easier, go with it
17:14 xerox You're too kind :)
17:14 Limbic_Region sed is only needed for 1 step
17:14 xerox Okay!
17:14 Limbic_Region let me throw something together
17:15 xerox I probably can manage some perl.
17:15 Limbic_Region I will do both
17:15 * xerox hugs Limbic_Region
17:15 Limbic_Region you check which one you want
17:15 xerox I'm so stuck... too much higher level programming makes me unable to do this... yuck.
17:16 xerox Heh, no pugs on monk
17:16 xerox Otherwise we could've used perl6 ;-)
17:27 salty-horse joined perl6
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17:39 justatheory seen audreyt
17:40 gaal "option Nothing $ fmap Just ruleThisOrOther"   -- is there a golfier way?
17:41 xerox ?type option
17:41 lambdabot Not in scope: `option'
17:41 xerox What is it?
17:41 gaal parsec
17:41 Limbic_Region perlbot nopaste
17:41 perlbot Paste your code here and #<channel> will be able to view it: http://sial.org/pbot/<channel>
17:42 pasteling "Limbic_Region" at 129.33.119.12 pasted "For xerox: This will likely need to be debugged." (41 lines, 1.2K) at http://sial.org/pbot/19467
17:42 gaal xerox: option x p = p <|> return x
17:42 gaal and <|> is mplus IIRC
17:42 Limbic_Region xerox - there is a shell script version that is pretty ugly if you ask me
17:42 Limbic_Region I will write a perl version which should be much cleaner
17:42 xerox Limbic_Region: great!!!
17:42 xerox Limbic_Region++
17:43 xerox I'll be back in short time.
17:43 gaal I can of course write a combinator - but I feel like there's a native way to exploit the Maybe here...
17:43 Limbic_Region I already know the shell script is missing one command - the actual cabal-put
17:43 xerox gaal: why do you need to option Nothing . fmap Just?
17:43 gaal I *want* the parser to return a Maybe
17:44 Limbic_Region as well as step 5 - must not have copied that
17:44 gaal it's not Nothing . fmap just
17:44 xerox It's option Nothing . fmap Just :)
17:44 gaal it's option (Nothing) (fmap Just someRule)
17:44 xerox Yeah, the point is someRule I mean.
17:44 xerox Just make someRule fail with Nothing, i.e. return a Maybe a?
17:45 xerox Limbic_Region: right, the actual cabal-put *is* step 5 right? or what do you mean?
17:46 Limbic_Region xerox - let me finish the perl version then I will rectify any problems with the shell version
17:46 * xerox nods
17:48 gaal xerox: it compiles, but does not work :/
17:48 xerox Aw.
17:48 xerox Hmmmm.
17:48 gaal that is, having the rule 'return Just x' instead of 'return x'
17:49 gaal because apparently option catches the failure?
17:49 xerox (option x p) tries to apply parser p. If p fails without consuming input, it returns the value x, otherwise the value returned by p.
17:50 xerox I think the `without consuming input' part is the key.
17:51 gaal but my rule has a 'try' combinator around it...
17:51 gaal it doesn't consume input when failing.
17:51 xerox Right, I was going to suggest that.
17:52 gaal I think I'll just write a maybeRule function that does thi
17:52 gaal s
17:53 gaal :pl maybeRule r = option r $ fmap Just r
17:53 gaal @pl maybeRule r = option r $ fmap Just r
17:53 xerox Strange. Cale is good at Parsec, if he comes about ask him about that.
17:53 lambdabot maybeRule = ap option (fmap Just)
17:53 gaal okay, thanks.
17:53 gaal I gotta moose for a bit...
17:53 weinig is now known as weinig|bbl
17:53 xerox Moose freely.
17:54 gaal named parameters are in.
17:54 salty-horse gaal, hi
17:54 gaal hey salty-horse. the bug's fixed
17:54 salty-horse yay. watching
17:54 gaal as of this morning
17:55 salty-horse can you help me figure out why my changes to pretty print Param.Default had no effect? (the ones that i msg-ed you when you were away)
17:56 gaal i replied on the channel, please look in the irc.pugscode.org
17:56 gaal gotta go for a bit
17:57 xerox There's another irc network ?
17:57 gaal logs
17:57 xerox Ah-ha.
17:57 salty-horse thanks
17:59 Limbic_Region xerox - "copy out .cabal to foo/PACKAGE/PACKAGE-VERSION.cabal and .tar.gz to the same dir." where foo is base-packages-dir - how will I know what that is?
17:59 Limbic_Region is it passed in as a command line argument?
18:00 xerox Limbic_Region: a variable would be sweet
18:01 xerox It's now a subdir in my $HOME but it'll be something different
18:01 Limbic_Region what I mean is, something has to tell the script what it is
18:01 Limbic_Region I can query the environment or it can be passed in as an arg
18:01 Limbic_Region please disregard the shell script - I made a lot of incorrect assumptions when I wrote that
18:02 Limbic_Region I read more carefully for the perl
18:02 xerox OK
18:02 xerox Limbic_Region: can it be a "global" variable?
18:02 xerox It is just a fixed directory, users aren't supposed to change it
18:03 Limbic_Region I don't care what kind of variable it is
18:03 Limbic_Region I care how my script finds out about it in the first place
18:03 xerox Just a variable in the script, it's a "fixed" path.
18:03 Limbic_Region almost finished
18:03 xerox One writes it in the source.
18:05 pasteling "Limbic_Region" at 129.33.119.12 pasted "for xerox - does a better job" (45 lines, 1.3K) at http://sial.org/pbot/19469
18:05 Limbic_Region ok, I have to go - bbiab
18:06 xerox Thank you!
18:11 svnbot6 r13046 | gaal++ | * Handle named parameters in Signatures.
18:11 svnbot6 r13046 | gaal++ |     :( :$justify )                # which is shorthand for...
18:11 svnbot6 r13046 | gaal++ |     :( :justify($justify) )       # but you can also say
18:11 svnbot6 r13046 | gaal++ |     :( :justify($justification) ) # the long name is used inside body;
18:11 svnbot6 r13046 | gaal++ |                                   # the short name by callers
18:15 xerox brb
18:16 gaal rehi
18:17 gaal wow, 13 minutes to commit. that's... slow
18:21 gaal so, modulo bugs, I think the new sig parser handles everything the old one does, and more.
18:22 xerox joined perl6
18:22 gaal I wonder whether at this point it would be more fun to write the pugsy introspection interface, or to transition the the parser to use this in actual sub declarations.
18:22 xerox Back.
18:25 gaal or maybe a pretty printer, though perhaps writing the pretty printer in Perl would be a good way of testing an introspection interface!
18:25 xerox Limbic_Region: anyway, there's no such thing as cabal-put. The script *is* cabal-put.
18:32 fglock compiling Test.pm from scratch with v6 dropped from 13.5s to 9.1s (about 30%)
18:32 svnbot6 r13047 | fglock++ | v6 - just removed a debug comment
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19:38 TreyHarris my make smoke is hung in ext/libwww-perl/t/live.t
19:40 TreyHarris does test status get written to a file somewhere as it goes along, so I can try to figure out what test it's hung on?  tracing the process is proving unhelpful
19:43 nothingmuch 2/w 12
19:44 bernhard joined perl6
19:45 TreyHarris nothingmuch: hmmm... on my numlock, that would translate to "k0w jk", which is no more enlightening than what you actually typed ;-)
19:45 nothingmuch that was just a typo ;-)
19:45 polettix joined perl6
19:45 nothingmuch i was switching to window 12 in irssi
19:46 mauke /w is an abbreviation for /window
19:48 TreyHarris meh, i just killed live.t.  i'll come back behind once i've got the smoke.html and figure out where it hung :-)
19:53 larsen joined perl6
19:56 svnbot6 r13048 | Sage++ | The translator will now accept multiple modifiers after one -, so -VR and similar are valid. In addition, -O is now used for heavy object-oriented translation (but -Oo is still useable.
19:56 svnbot6 r13048 | Sage++ | In addition, I found a stupid little error in ASTParser that I fixed (just some bad indentation, not sure how that got there).
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20:04 gaal this paper is fun to read: http://research.microsoft.c​om/~simonpj/Papers/inlining
20:05 lambdabot Title: Simon Peyton Jones: papers, http://tinyurl.com/kevk6
20:05 gaal [ Secrets of the GHC inliner ]
20:08 Limbic_Region gaal - not sure if you saw my report earlier but leaving the machine turned off for the entirety of lunch had no effect, neither did recompiling from realclean
20:08 gaal looks like a GHC bug to me
20:08 Limbic_Region except that it worked fine yesterday
20:08 gaal but I'm not sure.
20:09 Limbic_Region I will know tonight if it is related to the pugs source as what I have at home is using the same version of ghc - so I verify that it still works, svn up, and see if it starts failing
20:09 gaal the bug has festered, perhaps
20:09 Limbic_Region not that it couldn't still be a ghc bug - but if so, then it is one that just recently got tickled
20:09 Limbic_Region and AFAIK, I am the only one using ghc 6.6rc on Win32
20:09 gaal okies.
20:09 * gaal heads for bed
20:10 lumi Night gaal
20:10 * gaal eigens &
20:19 nothingmuch mooooooooooooose
20:24 clkao moose
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21:33 xerox Question.
21:33 xerox To check for directory existence is it:
21:33 xerox dir "arr" if ! $dir;
21:33 xerox Or:
21:33 xerox die "arr" if ! -d $dir;
21:33 xerox ?
21:34 wolverian just open/glob it and check the return value.
21:34 wolverian there's a race condition in checking its existence first.
21:34 wolverian er.
21:34 wolverian oh, this is #perl6 :)
21:34 xerox Hm?
21:34 wolverian well, the advice still applies.
21:34 Limbic_Region xerox - in perl, use ! -d $dir
21:34 xerox hehe okay
21:35 wolverian die unless -d $dir; ...someone removes the directory here...; glob $dir...
21:35 Limbic_Region race conditions are not applicable here
21:35 xerox Just checking for existance and moving on.
21:36 Limbic_Region neither is portability and a half a dozen other things you might think are good ideas
21:36 Limbic_Region ;-)
21:36 xerox paolo@monk:~$ bin/cabal-put fps-0.7.tar.gz
21:36 xerox paolo@monk:~$ ls projects/packages/fps/
21:36 xerox fps-0.7.cabal  fps-0.7.tar.gz
21:36 xerox Oh yeah!
21:36 wolverian stop hacking and do it the right way :)
21:36 weinig is now known as weinig|bbl
21:36 * xerox prods himself... and Limbic_Region for the help hehe
21:41 xerox wolverian: do you also know the idiomatic way to cwd to a directory and run a command there?
21:41 xerox wolverian: I'm pretty sure it's system() for the latter part, but I don't know about the former.
21:42 wolverian { temp $*CWD = ...; ... } # :)
21:42 xerox Nice!!
21:42 wolverian no, I'm not sure if that works. it's scary.
21:42 xerox :(
21:42 wolverian I remember discussion about it.
21:42 xerox Something that works.. ?
21:43 wolverian in perl6 or perl5?
21:43 xerox perl5.
21:44 wolverian I don't think there's a neat idiom.
21:44 wolverian use Cwd qw/getcwd/; my $old = getcwd; if (chdir $target) { system command => -flags } else { die "foo" }
21:44 wolverian er, and chdir back to $old :)
21:44 xerox Yuck.
21:44 wolverian quite.
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22:37 TreyHarris xerox: if you can stomach turning commandline processing over to the shell, you can just do 'system "cd $target && $command"'... when the system exits, you'll be back in your old cwd
22:37 xerox TreyHarris: that's what I am doing now in fact
22:37 xerox Thanks anyway :)
22:37 TreyHarris of course, this Is Not Portable... but incantations involving system() never are
22:37 xerox Yeah
22:38 TreyHarris what wolverian describes of temporizing $*CWD is already implementable by the Synopses.  I dunno if it's implementable under pugs yet
22:39 TreyHarris actually, i know it's not.  Proxy objects aren't implemented.
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23:58 svnbot6 r13049 | renormalist++ | cperl-mode.el:
23:58 svnbot6 r13049 | renormalist++ |  - Merged changes from original cperl-mode v5.20
23:58 svnbot6 r13049 | renormalist++ |  - perl 5.9 state variable declarations
23:58 svnbot6 r13049 | renormalist++ |  - experiments to fix y/tr bug with twigils, but no success yet

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