Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2006-09-16

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 bcorn_ joined perl6
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00:29 audreyt ?eval 10
00:29 evalbot_r13339 10
00:29 obra "oh good"
00:30 TimToady morning audreyt
00:30 audreyt ?eval while int(rand*10) -> $x { say $x }
00:30 evalbot_r13339 0
00:30 audreyt ?eval while int(rand(5)) -> $x { say $x }
00:31 evalbot_r13339 OUTPUT[4 ] 0
00:31 audreyt hi TimToady
00:31 TimToady we need to undo prefix:<*> at some point...
00:32 TimToady rand*10 should have given a "two terms in a row" error.
00:34 TimToady pity that won't help for rand+10
00:35 audreyt ok, removng it now
00:35 * audreyt smokes to see how seriously that breaks
00:38 TimToady grepping for \*[$@%] only gets 2324 hits
00:38 TimToady mostly sigs, I expect
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00:47 TimToady weird, splat.t has things like "my $b = *@a;"
00:51 TimToady ./src/PIL/misc/prelude/Array.pm is full of splats
00:58 gary_ joined perl6
00:58 TimToady heh, found some in the specs too...
01:00 TimToady bunch 'o stuff in ext/ isn't gonna parse...
01:00 audreyt ...but I committed anyway.
01:01 audreyt gone for $job (on a saturday? sigh)
01:01 audreyt be back in ~6hr
01:01 TimToady I'll whack on the *'s when I get a chance.
01:01 svnbot6 r13340 | audreyt++ | * "*" is now strictly a Term, never a prefix operator.
01:02 audreyt yay!
01:02 TimToady lot's of superstitious *@foo passed to a slurpy *@bar
01:02 TimToady *lots
01:02 TimToady down to about 200 hits now
01:08 svnbot6 r13341 | audreyt++ | * smartlink the smartlinkable S04 for repeat.t.
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01:50 svnbot6 r13342 | lwall++ | A lot of WAGs on what was intended by unary * in various places.
01:58 buetow joined perl6
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02:06 svnbot6 r13343 | fglock++ | v6 (pX) added more classes
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03:58 jdv79 is Perl6::Bible still authoritative?
03:58 jdv79 seems to be getting a little old
03:59 what3 joined perl6
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04:06 peteso joined perl6
04:07 peteso by any chance could someone give me a quick bit of X assistance? (or is there a better channel to go to?)
04:07 TimToady Perl6::Bible never was authoritative in that sense...
04:07 TimToady X as in windows?
04:07 peteso X Windows, yes
04:08 TimToady well, I use X but I wouldn't really count myself an eXpert
04:08 peteso I know this isn't the right channel, but I've also found people to be very helpful here
04:09 TimToady we're very glad to share advice whether we know anything or not.  :)
04:09 Eidolos I've checked some channels (#x, ##x, #x11, ##x11) and found none.. ask away! :)
04:09 peteso I kill'd a full screen X app (VMware Player) but it didnt go back to the desktop
04:09 peteso the machine isn't crashed, I'm logged into a shell from another computer
04:09 TimToady is the X process still running?
04:09 peteso but I'm just not sure how to get the last frozen image off
04:10 peteso yes, everything *else* is still running
04:10 TimToady if X isn't running, restarting X would fix it.
04:10 lambdabot joined perl6
04:10 Eidolos So.. kill X?
04:10 peteso would restarting X throw away all the things I had open in the background?
04:10 TimToady might already be dead or hung.
04:10 TimToady yes, but they might already be hosed.
04:10 peteso (I just recently switched to a linux desktop s)
04:11 peteso hmm
04:11 peteso the process status is still running..
04:12 TimToady what kind of linux are you on?
04:12 peteso Ubuntu Dapper
04:12 lambdabot eh?
04:12 TimToady dunno whose X Ubuntu uses...
04:12 lambdabot go on
04:12 Eidolos Do you have anything that really needs saving? Because if not you should probably restart (and avoid letting programs use fullscreen until you find a fix)
04:12 lambdabot uhh, how can i be a program??
04:14 Eidolos I'm no expert on this stuff.. but it looks like Dapper (which I am also using) uses Xorg.
04:14 TimToady have you tried switching virtual screens with Ctrl/Alt+numbers?
04:15 peteso I just HUP'd the X-session-manager, and that fixed it and closed whatever was open
04:15 TimToady I mean ctrl/alt/function
04:15 peteso t
04:15 TimToady sometimes switching to a different virtual terminal and back can clear it too, is all...
04:15 peteso thank you very much none the less for the assistance, and I'm sorry for otherwise interrupting key perl developments :)
04:16 TimToady yeah, if the session manager was the problem, that could fix it.
04:16 TimToady heh, it's, like, Friday night...
04:17 peteso :)
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04:26 TreyHarris TimToady: how are you feeling philosophically towards the -X fileops?
04:27 TreyHarris not looking for The Answer, just wondering how you're thinking about them
04:33 TimToady I like the fact that they're visually distinctive.
04:34 TimToady as far as I'm concerned they're no weirder than a lot of other operators.
04:35 TreyHarris i agree... coming from the sysadmin perspective, i think the fileops are one of the draws of perl for them
04:37 TreyHarris though i do 'perldoc -f -X' even after 15 years
04:37 TreyHarris so i'll probably use .mtime, etc. assuming it's easily available
04:40 TimToady biab &
04:47 peteso quit
04:47 peteso whoops..
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05:19 svnbot6 r13344 | putter++ | Added a failing rx test.  Given rule r { <null> | x <r> }, "x" ~~ /<r>$/  should match "x", not "".
05:20 svnbot6 r13345 | putter++ | Added a failing kwid test.  An empty kwid, "=kwid\n=cut\n", eats subsequent code.
05:23 weinig is now known as weinig|zZz
05:24 agentzh joined perl6
05:29 svnbot6 r13346 | agentz++ | [t/README]
05:29 svnbot6 r13346 | agentz++ | - fixed a grammar error
05:31 audreyt @putter the rx test worksforme
05:31 lambdabot Unknown command, try @list
05:31 audreyt @tell putter the rx test worksforme
05:31 lambdabot Consider it noted.
05:32 audreyt @tell putter but I was using PCR :) 'bout time to check in the s/PGE/PCR/ overhaul I guess...
05:32 lambdabot Consider it noted.
05:34 putter joined perl6
05:34 putter hey audreyt
05:34 lambdabot putter: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
05:34 svnbot6 r13347 | putter++ | Added additional failing rx case.  Given rule r2 { <null> | <r2> x }, "x" ~~ /<r2>$/ should match "x", not "".
05:34 * putter goes to see what PCR is...
05:35 TimToady polymerase chain reaction
05:35 putter :)
05:36 audreyt Pugs::Compiler::Rule.
05:36 audreyt your r2 test also worksforme.
05:37 audreyt I'm committing both as PCR tests now. sec.
05:38 putter using parrot 0.4.6...
05:38 putter (ie, latest release, but not head)
05:38 audreyt it might well be a PGE-land bug...
05:39 putter PCR is p5, yes?  can one use it from pugs??
05:39 audreyt yes and yes.
05:39 audreyt (it's the motivation of embedp5 by default)
05:39 putter oooooh
05:39 audreyt even without embedp5, we can use the bridge.
05:39 putter :)
05:39 audreyt I'm working on the bridge now; give me an hour or two :)
05:40 putter 1:30 am for me.  end of day.  no prob
05:40 audreyt it also gives us variable lookup and binding and mutual calls and other good thing :)
05:40 audreyt 'kay. sleep well!
05:40 svnbot6 r13348 | agentz++ | [t/blocks/param_signature.t]
05:40 putter woot
05:40 svnbot6 r13348 | agentz++ | - fixed one invalid smartlink. (please use smartlinks.pl
05:40 svnbot6 r13348 | agentz++ |   --check to verify your links. :))
05:41 audreyt putter: btw, have you seen my msg that inv tyinfer bug has been solved long ago
05:41 audreyt and the "my C $x" within a sub bug is also fixed?
05:42 putter My thought was to transcribe some bison examples to p6 rules, see what broke, generate some tests and an example.  But a working example would be just fine too, I'm most flexible in that regard. ;)
05:43 putter re typeinf, yes!  very neat.  am looking for some pile of oo code with tests to throw against it.
05:43 audreyt also roles are now really mixins.
05:44 audreyt but not introspectable. that will come from nothingmuch's MO direction.
05:44 putter first thought was to take a mumble2scm or mumble2cl and rip the back out, generating p6, and use the mumble test suite.
05:44 audreyt mmm re2c seems obvious.
05:44 * putter googles for re2c...
05:44 audreyt very good stuff.
05:45 audreyt (was re your "transcribe some bison")
05:45 audreyt not re the scm/cl
05:46 putter ah, neat.  though my thought regards typeinf working, was to find some way to through diverse oo code at it.  eg, by transliterating from some other language.  Ideally with an existing transliterator which just needed to be tweaked.  Thus the search for mumble2scm.  Unfortunately,
05:46 svnbot6 r13349 | agentz++ | [util/smartlinks.pl]
05:46 svnbot6 r13349 | agentz++ | - we no longer require Pod::Simple::HTML when --check is
05:46 svnbot6 r13349 | agentz++ |   specified since we don't generate HTML while checking.
05:46 svnbot6 r13349 | agentz++ |   (Thanks zeriod++ for reminding me)
05:46 svnbot6 r13349 | agentz++ | - clarified in the Pod that extra text after the
05:46 svnbot6 r13349 | agentz++ |   smartlink in the same line is NOT valid.
05:47 putter I didn't find a plausible candidate.  Ie, a transliterator with relatively simple codegen, and a test suite for the mumble.
05:48 putter So, I wondered if p6 itself was up to doing a translit exercise.  Thought I'd start with some trivial stuff, and see how far I got.
05:48 svnbot6 r13350 | agentz++ | [t/blocks/param_signature.t]
05:48 svnbot6 r13350 | agentz++ | - english fixes
05:48 audreyt that seems viable
05:48 audreyt btw, are you still building with embperl5 off?
05:50 nothingmuch clkao: ping?
05:50 putter re viable, it's a yak or two down the stack, but a yak which I'm happy to haircut for itself.  I still don't have a plausible short term plan to generate a large (>hand) volume of p6 oo code to exercise things.
05:50 nothingmuch hmm... why bother, he won't be up
05:50 nothingmuch morning...
05:50 nothingmuch hiking &
05:51 TimToady audreyt: ideas on how soon @.foo() syntax will be supported?
05:52 putter re embperl5, off, sign, no.  no.  I was so tempted after calling it a night to go back online and say "btw, of course I have embed working.  but since I was here, I wanted to make nonembed work too, and make sure the now default embed _just worked_, without extra user action".  But I didn't.  And now "putter and nonembed" is a "thing".  sigh. ;)
05:52 audreyt TimToady: should be the same time as the MI/MO swapin
05:52 putter s/sign/sigh/
05:52 TimToady k
05:52 svnbot6 r13351 | agentz++ | [util/smartlinks.pl]
05:52 svnbot6 r13351 | agentz++ | - minor english fixes
05:52 audreyt putter: oh ok. yay :)
05:53 agentzh lol
05:59 * putter daydreams... "hmm... if rules were actually working, and oo too... one way to get lots of p6 oo code would be to dust off the js-on-p6 transliterator...".  Oh, that would be so very nice.  Ah well, bison rcalc first.  Then we'll see.
06:03 audreyt sleep first, would be my recommendation
06:03 putter Or not.  No dynamic mop stuff yet pugs-side.  JS runtime and static code could still run.  Eh.  rcalc.  then calc.  err, rpcalc rather.  then calc.  then...
06:03 putter http://www.gnu.org/software/bison/man​ual/html_mono/bison.html.gz#RPN-Calc
06:03 lambdabot http://tinyurl.com/ppft9
06:03 putter a most fine recommendation it is.
06:03 putter good night all &
06:16 ingy hola
06:16 ingy seen nothingmuch
06:16 jabbot ingy: nothingmuch was seen 25 minutes 40 seconds ago
06:23 svnbot6 r13352 | gaal++ | * signature.t - more tests. excplicit defaults are parsed but
06:23 svnbot6 r13352 | gaal++ |   not yet printed.
06:32 svnbot6 r13353 | gaal++ | * Pugs.Parser: parse cody constraints on params, even if they're
06:32 svnbot6 r13353 | gaal++ |   ignored for now:
06:32 svnbot6 r13353 | gaal++ |     :(Int $x where { $x % 2 })
06:32 svnbot6 r13353 | gaal++ | * Pugs.Val.Code: very minor cleanups
06:40 agentzh hmm...haskell may be the most beautiful language in the world...
06:40 wolverian no, that's lisp
06:41 agentzh lisp is ugly in my opinion.
06:42 agentzh too many parens in that language.
06:43 wolverian sort of platonic..
06:44 agentzh heh
06:50 TreyHarris so for those of you who work in code containing cjk characters often: do you use two-column wide glyphs as compared to ascii chars, or do you have space between ascii chars?
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06:58 agentzh TreyHarris: space between ascii chars?
06:58 agentzh "a b c" ?
06:58 agentzh "w o r d"?
06:59 agentzh ah, there're "wide english letters" in chinese, which we call "full corner" or something like that.
07:01 agentzh and i don't think there's any whitespace between adjacent letters though it may have similar visual appearance.
07:01 TreyHarris i meant visual space
07:02 agentzh probably, and i've been avoiding to use that kind of things, since they're confusing.
07:02 TreyHarris if you have "foo" starting at col 0 on line 1, and three han glyphs in a row starting at col 0 on line 2, will line 2 be wider?
07:02 TreyHarris visually wider i mean
07:03 agentzh hmm
07:03 agentzh 3 glyphs?
07:03 agentzh line 2 may be wider or may not.
07:04 agentzh that depends on whether "foo" is "half corner" or "full corner".
07:05 agentzh if "foo" is in "half corner" (i.e. in ascii charset), then line 2 is approximately 2 times wider.
07:05 TreyHarris right, i was asking about what is typical for coders who have to deal with a lot of such code that mixes
07:06 TreyHarris is half corner, or full corner, typical for people coding?
07:07 agentzh Treyharris: they can be mixed.
07:07 agentzh we have both in our chinese input method.
07:07 agentzh so it's very easy to confuse these two.
07:08 agentzh and it's quite common to see different version of "A" in a single chinese article.
07:08 agentzh *versions
07:08 agentzh for me, i usually convert full-corner latin letters to their ascii equivalences before processing the text (via perl).
07:09 agentzh i really really hate full-corner latin letters.
07:09 agentzh they're not ascii but wide chars.
07:09 TreyHarris i see
07:13 TreyHarris agentzh: so will the arrows in t/xx-uncategorized/unicode.t line up on everyone's terminal?
07:14 agentzh oh, sorry for the poor terminology, "full corner" is actually "SBC case" while "half corner" is "DBC case"
07:14 agentzh i translated them directly from chinese. :)
07:14 TreyHarris no problem :-)
07:16 agentzh that unicode.t file doesn't display in my editor.
07:16 TreyHarris !
07:16 agentzh it said that the encoding is incorrect.
07:16 TreyHarris that seems to be bad news
07:16 agentzh have you saved that in UTF-8?
07:17 agentzh it will be fine if it's in UTF-8.
07:19 zgh aw my perl6 webserver stopped working...
07:19 zgh segfault..
07:19 pdcawley joined perl6
07:20 agentzh zgh: where is your webserver?
07:20 zgh n/m there it goes ^_^
07:21 zgh nowhere I'm just messing around with HTTP::Server::Simple
07:21 zgh localluy
07:21 agentzh ah
07:21 zgh i just updated pugs, but it wasn't the fault of the update
07:21 zgh it was from my trying to get it working with v6 ^_
07:22 agentzh v6.pm?
07:22 zgh yeah
07:22 agentzh gotcha
07:22 zgh i have a sample program, just seeing how far i can push it
07:22 agentzh zgh, or maybe push Pugs::Compiler::Perl6 directly?
07:23 svnbot6 r13354 | trey++ | [t/xx-uncategorized/unicode.t]
07:23 agentzh that will be more enjoyable. :)
07:23 svnbot6 r13354 | trey++ | Amusingly enough, this test was not set to
07:23 svnbot6 r13354 | trey++ | be in UTF-8.  agentzh++ for catch
07:23 zgh agentzh: I'm working my way up to it ^_^
07:24 agentzh zgh++
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07:27 agentzh TreyHarris: my editor still reject unicode.t. :(
07:28 zgh seems to work for me in vim...
07:29 zgh I see hebrew and cyrillic...
07:29 zgh ooh and chinese
07:29 agentzh TreyHarris: my svn diff shows that your r13354 has no modification at all.
07:29 agentzh i see this: å–?
07:29 agentzh and 𨮁
07:30 TreyHarris *shrug* i can never see non-ascii characters in IRC
07:30 TreyHarris even when people say they can see each others'
07:30 agentzh hehe
07:31 agentzh TreyHarris: have you set the svn MIME type?
07:31 TreyHarris agentzh: yes, that's all i did
07:31 TreyHarris ahh, but i made a typo
07:31 agentzh weird.
07:31 TreyHarris try now :-)
07:32 TreyHarris i did "UTF=8" :-)
07:32 svnbot6 r13355 | trey++ | Another try at fixing unicode.t'
07:32 agentzh hmm "Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8"
07:32 agentzh yes, it is correct, i think.
07:35 agentzh the file seems to contain some invalid UTF character. not sure...
07:36 DHGE joined perl6
07:36 agentzh i'll try to fix that.
07:41 agentzh oh, the han char "\x28B81" can't display in my firefox, ie, and editplus...
07:41 pdcawley joined perl6
07:41 agentzh so it may be the lack of proper font?
07:41 agentzh anyway, i think i can do nothing with it. :)
07:42 zgh it all seems to work in vim on linux... over a terminal
07:42 zgh didi't even realize I was using a unicode font.
07:43 agentzh heh
07:43 * agentzh imagines what that weird char may look like.
07:44 agentzh http://www.fileformat.info/inf​o/unicode/char/28B81/index.htm
07:44 lambdabot Title: Unicode Han Character 'U+28B81' (U+28B81), http://tinyurl.com/ffwho
07:47 zgh hm that's funny
07:47 zgh it seems to display correctly near the bottom of the page, but not anywhere else
07:47 wolverian Server.HtmlEncode()  è® is that it?
07:47 wolverian right.
07:47 zgh right that's the one
07:47 zgh and the next line too
07:47 zgh but that's it
07:48 wolverian yup.
07:48 wolverian weird.
07:48 agentzh ohhhh
07:48 agentzh ancient chinese char...
07:49 agentzh i'm just wondering what that glyph means. :)
07:49 zgh its quite copmlicated-looking
07:49 agentzh indeed
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07:50 TreyHarris i don't have a monospaced font that displays it
07:50 TreyHarris and proportional fonts are useless for code i think
07:50 zgh TreyHarris: what platform?
07:50 agentzh oh, that glyph means blame or censure in the ancient china. :)
07:50 TreyHarris zgh: mac os x
07:50 zgh TreyHarris: the "monospace" font on my ubuntu box does the trick
07:50 zgh TreyHarris: my mac is in the shop ^_^
07:51 wolverian zgh, note that it is not probably that font where the glyph comes from.
07:51 wolverian freetype just falls back on another font that has it.
07:51 zgh wolverian: thanks I didn't know that
07:51 zgh wolverian: that would make much more sense ^_^
07:51 wolverian you can check which font it comes from with the character map app
07:52 zgh well if freetype is getting it right I don't feel I should sweat the details, heh
07:52 zgh i can't read chinese anyway
07:53 zgh cool to know how it does that though
07:53 what3 joined perl6
07:56 agentzh ×y fails the test on pugs.
07:56 larsen_ joined perl6
07:56 wolverian that was a ? here
07:57 agentzh sigh...
07:58 agentzh i don't know how to fix the encoding in my mIRC.
08:02 zgh joined perl6
08:03 TreyHarris i'm flummoxed.  i've set my terminal app, my font, screen, and my irc client to all use utf8 as their encodings
08:04 TreyHarris but i still can't see whatever character wolverian sent 15 minutes ago
08:04 wolverian TreyHarris, it is possible you simply do not have the glyph in your fonts
08:04 wolverian or your terminal app is not falling properly back onto a font that does have it.
08:05 wolverian (or rather, your font library)
08:05 TreyHarris can you paste the character above it?  i can definitely see it.  the \x5583 one
08:07 larsen_ is now known as larsen
08:07 TreyHarris ?eval say "\x5583"
08:08 evalbot_r13355 OUTPUT[喃 ] Bool::True
08:08 wolverian 喃
08:08 TreyHarris yeah.  i see "?VC", with the VC in inverse type, whether it's you or evalbot
08:08 agentzh it displays perfectly here.
08:08 wolverian you did restart your client and screen, etc after setting up utf8?
08:09 agentzh wolverian: can you see "à«" now?
08:09 wolverian no.
08:09 wolverian ? again
08:10 agentzh :(
08:10 zgh joined perl6
08:10 agentzh i can read but can't write...
08:10 TreyHarris i restarted screen.
08:11 wolverian TreyHarris, that should definitely do it. and screen reports it is in utf8-mode?
08:11 wolverian (ctrl+a,i)
08:11 TreyHarris yep
08:11 TreyHarris oh, LANG is C
08:11 TreyHarris that might be my problem?
08:11 wolverian that might affect your IRC client, but if screen says it is in utf8 mode, the locale doesn't matter
08:12 wolverian (but it is best to just set the locale to a UTF8 one before launching screen and it Just Works (tm))
08:12 TreyHarris well, i guess it can't hurt to try
08:12 wolverian there's also the irssi setting "term_charset" which should be set to utf8
08:12 wolverian which happens automatically if your locale is UTF8, I think
08:15 TreyHarris hmmm.... it very briefly throws up a message about an unsupported charset
08:15 TreyHarris but it goes away too quickly for me to read it
08:15 TreyHarris i've just caught those two words
08:16 svnbot6 r13356 | audreyt++ | * Pugs::Compiler::Rule: We no longer require Data::Dumper::Streamer.
08:16 svnbot6 r13356 | audreyt++ | * Also avoid loading PadWalker until runtime when it was absolutely neccessary.
08:17 wolverian TreyHarris, what locale is it, and do you really have it on your computer?
08:17 kanru joined perl6
08:19 Trey2 joined perl6
08:20 Trey2 ?eval say "\x5583"
08:20 evalbot_r13356 OUTPUT[喃 ] Bool::True
08:20 Trey2 hm
08:20 Trey2 i got ?? there.  which is arguably better
08:20 TreyHarris wolverian: i set it to en_US.UTF-8
08:21 wolverian TreyHarris, and that locale exists on your computer?
08:21 Trey2 i don't know.  how does one list locales on linux?
08:22 wolverian locale -a
08:22 Trey2 ah... my choices are C, POSIX, en_US, and en_US.iso88591
08:23 wolverian what distribution are you running?
08:23 Trey2 um, let me see... it's a shell server...
08:24 Trey2 debian on sparc64
08:25 wolverian I think you want to run 'sudo dpkg-reconfigure locales', then
08:26 Trey2 ah.  i don't have sudo :-(
08:26 Trey2 i guess i'll open a trouble ticket
08:26 wolverian well, run it as root some other method
08:26 wolverian ah, you don't have root. okay
08:29 TreyHarris that's my only way to make it work?
08:30 wolverian I don't know if you can install locales, er, locally.
08:39 TreyHarris wolverian: thanks, it'll probably be much easier to get the sysadmin to fix it since I know exactly what to ask for :-)
08:39 svnbot6 r13357 | audreyt++ | * Pugs::Runtime::Match - add a dump_hs method that yields Parrot/PGE::Hs
08:39 svnbot6 r13357 | audreyt++ |   compatible output for Pugs consumption.  Next step is a command-line bridge...
08:39 wolverian TreyHarris, yup.
08:39 wolverian TreyHarris, delegate, delegate, delegate.
08:43 TreyHarris audreyt: i was about to add some cross-operator tests.  i assume i should :todo<feature> them all?
08:43 audreyt yes, please do that
08:43 TreyHarris ok :)
08:44 * audreyt is still neck deep in PCR integration
08:54 agentzh audreyt++
08:54 pdcawley joined perl6
08:54 agentzh so after the PCR integration work is done, i won't need parrot.exe any more? :)
09:04 agentzh supper time &
09:04 agentzh left perl6
09:06 audreyt agentzh: yeah, the plan is to remove parrot dep entirely for this release
09:06 svnbot6 r13358 | audreyt++ | * Pugs::Runtime::Match::HsBridge - PGE::Hs-compatible bridge for integration
09:06 svnbot6 r13358 | audreyt++ |   for the Haskell runtime, in both embedding and external mode.
09:12 gaal audreyt: I don't understand something about Types.Type casting.
09:12 gaal I want to do:
09:12 gaal map (text . cast) $ p_types p
09:12 gaal but I'm getting errors like:
09:12 gaal No instance for ((:<:) Types.Type Char)
09:12 gaal as if somebody's trying to delist this?
09:13 gaal Pugs.Val.Code around line 170
09:14 audreyt well there's no cast to String either
09:14 gaal okay, but cast . cast doesn't work
09:14 audreyt delist is because GHC tried desperately to generate [Char] from Char
09:14 audreyt the right solution is showtype
09:14 audreyt map (text . ShowType)
09:14 audreyt map (text . showType) -- err, this
09:14 gaal oh! cool.
09:15 gaal thanks :)
09:15 audreyt np :)
09:16 gaal next question is how we're going to print things like default values. do we need to be in Eval for this?
09:17 gaal ?eval :($x = 42)
09:17 evalbot_r13358 CCall "perl" CaptMeth {c_invocant = VPure (SigSubSingle {s_requiredPositionalCount = 0, s_requiredNames = {}, s_positionalList = [MkParam {p_variable = "$x", p_types = [], p_constraints = [], p_unpacking = Nothing, p_default = <ParamDefault:Just<Exp>>, p_label = "x", p_slots = {}, p_hasAccess = AccessRO, p_isRef = False, p_isContext = False, p_isLazy = False}], s_namedSet = {}, s_slurpyScalarList = [], s_slurpyArray = Nothing, s_slurpyHash = Nothi
09:17 gaal ?eval ""~:($x = 42)
09:17 evalbot_r13358 ":(\$x)"
09:17 gaal on my wc that prints
09:17 gaal :($x = {...})
09:18 audreyt well, the default is an expression
09:18 gaal ... and in a few seconds, in HEAD too :)
09:18 audreyt prettyprinting an expression doesn't need to be in Eval
09:20 gaal ooh right, format isn't in Eval. cool!
09:21 svnbot6 r13359 | gaal++ | * fix printing of static types: :(Moo $x)
09:27 gaal ouch looks like I'll have to export Pretty.format :(
09:28 gaal s/export/boot/
09:29 gaal eep which of course I can't do with 6.4, arggghh
09:30 gaal bbiab&
09:36 svnbot6 r13360 | audreyt++ | * Finish Pugs::Runtime::Match::HsBridge's external mode to be compatible with run_pge.pir.
09:44 audreyt the bridge is now enacted.
09:44 svnbot6 r13361 | audreyt++ | * Pugs::Eval: Use the semantically-correct way of passing in :ratchet in
09:44 svnbot6 r13361 | audreyt++ |   embedded rule texts:
09:44 svnbot6 r13361 | audreyt++ |     :ratchet(1)[...original rule text...]
09:44 svnbot6 r13362 | audreyt++ | * Thoroughly disable Pugs.Embed.Parrot and always use Perl5 bridge.
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10:34 agentzh removing the parrot dependency will make pugs "purer", which is great. :)
10:34 agentzh so 6.2.13 is gonna be a "big" release.
10:36 agentzh on the other hand, the PCR integration will also push the development of PCR itself.
10:37 agentzh because PCR is now much more "useful". :D
10:37 agentzh or usable even.
11:00 agentzh joined perl6
11:14 pasteling "agentzh" at 210.22.200.67 pasted "I can't invoke pugs from path other than the root of the pugs source tree (the Prelude problem?)" (9 lines, 420B) at http://sial.org/pbot/19722
11:14 jferrero joined perl6
11:14 agentzh joined perl6
11:17 audreyt agentzh: fixing
11:18 agentzh :)
11:19 ludan joined perl6
11:21 Sal joined perl6
11:21 agentzh it seems that the following piece of Perl 6 code is not runnable yet. :)
11:21 agentzh http://svn.berlios.de/svnroot/repos/unisi​mu/Java/exercises/OrdInsert/OrdInsert.pl
11:21 lambdabot http://tinyurl.com/g5rmy
11:22 wolverian you want at least @list is rw
11:22 agentzh neither pugs nor v6.pm can produce the correct output.
11:22 weinig joined perl6
11:22 agentzh wolverian: thanks! fixing now
11:24 agentzh but still, it doesn't work.
11:24 wolverian or: sub ord_insert (@list, $elem) { @list.reduce(-> @l, $e { $e < $elem ?? $e !! ($elem, $e) }) }
11:24 wolverian (non-mutating)
11:24 wolverian but this is all off-topic of course to the actual probem :)
11:24 wolverian problem, rather
11:25 agentzh ah, that's the functional way. :)
11:26 agentzh wolverian: please look at this: http://svn.berlios.de/svnroot/repos/unisi​mu/Java/exercises/OrdInsert/OrdInsert.hs
11:26 agentzh ;)
11:26 lambdabot http://tinyurl.com/nhcjw
11:26 wolverian er well besides the bugs
11:26 wolverian in my code
11:26 wolverian heh
11:26 wolverian s/reduce/filter/ and it works (but is a bit weird from a haskellish perspective)
11:27 wolverian right
11:27 agentzh *nod*
11:27 wolverian that's a quicksort
11:27 prefiks joined perl6
11:27 agentzh no, it's not.
11:27 agentzh it's an insertion sort.
11:27 agentzh (if i can call it like that)
11:28 agentzh qsort (x:xs) = (qsort left) ++ [x] ++ (qsort right) where (left, right) = partition (x>) xs
11:28 agentzh that may be the quick sort (untested)
11:29 wolverian I'm not sure how that is different
11:29 DHGE left perl6
11:29 agentzh the postion of recursion is different.
11:30 wolverian does that have a real difference? the foldl is the same thing as recursing
11:31 agentzh quick sort partitions the list while insertion sort insert the elem one by one.
11:31 agentzh *inserts
11:31 wolverian oh, right
11:31 wolverian it has a O difference
11:31 wolverian thanks
11:31 agentzh np :)
11:34 agentzh audreyt: btw, thank you very much for having brought haskell into my sight. i really like it now. :)
11:35 audreyt yay!
11:35 audreyt it's the Power of Reason :)
11:36 audreyt (have you seen the reason.jpg in my haskell tutorial?)
11:36 agentzh right, the power of maths or something :D
11:36 agentzh you have a haskell tutorial?
11:36 * agentzh is amazed.
11:36 audreyt http://pugscode.org/osdc/haskell.xul
11:36 agentzh looking
11:36 audreyt press <enter> to scroll next
11:37 audreyt need firefox
11:37 audreyt the last picture is "Reason"
11:37 agentzh i've used your xul tech to produce my slides.
11:38 agentzh so i know it *quite* well.
11:38 agentzh ^__^
11:38 audreyt oh good :)
11:39 agentzh i see the weapon picture.
11:39 audreyt it's from the SciFi novel "Snow Crash"
11:40 audreyt "we'll win because we have reason on our side."
11:40 agentzh ah
11:40 agentzh interesting
11:40 audreyt "DaoLi ZhanZai WoMen ZheBian" :)
11:40 agentzh haskell is really a powerful weapon.
11:41 audreyt of course, the name of that gattling gun is "Reason", i.e. "DaoLi" :)
11:41 agentzh hehe, i can grok the chinese.
11:41 agentzh i totally agree. :)
11:41 agentzh i'm planning to use haskell to do some computer simulation work.
11:42 agentzh GHC is pretty fast.
11:42 audreyt as chairman Deng noted, "development is the only hard-core Reason"
11:42 audreyt *nod*
11:43 agentzh fa zhan shi ying dao li
11:43 agentzh (it took me a while to realize what you have said.)
11:43 agentzh :D
11:44 audreyt :D
11:44 audreyt (the version I heard was "fazhan cai shi ying daoli")
11:44 audreyt hence the "only" part
11:44 agentzh i was wondering if "chairman Deng" was a foreign hacker...sorry for that...
11:45 agentzh right right right
11:45 prefiks left perl6
11:45 agentzh LOL
11:45 audreyt @index findExecutable
11:45 lambdabot System.Directory, Distribution.Compat.Directory
11:45 agentzh yeah
11:46 agentzh audreyt++ # you seem to know everything.
11:46 audreyt nah, not really :)
11:47 audreyt that's what you get from spending far too much time on wikipedia...
11:47 agentzh hehe
11:47 agentzh ah
11:47 agentzh wikipedia++
11:48 weinig is now known as weinig|coffee
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12:09 audreyt agentzh: fixed
12:09 svnbot6 r13363 | audreyt++ | * util/gen_prelude.pl: inline "use" into Prelude for now.
12:09 agentzh up'ing now
12:11 agentzh audreyt: AS 5.8.7 build 815 still breaks pugs, maybe you should disable it completely?
12:11 weinig|coffee is now known as weinig
12:12 pasteling "agentzh" at 210.22.200.67 pasted "AS 5.8.7 breaks pugs build" (18 lines, 1K) at http://sial.org/pbot/19724
12:12 agentzh now i'm keeping both 5.8.7 and 5.8.8.
12:12 agentzh one for jifty and the other for pugs.
12:14 audreyt ok, try r13364?
12:14 svnbot6 r13364 | audreyt++ | * some more ActivePerl 5.8.7 fix attempt
12:15 agentzh okay
12:16 polettix is now known as froh-doh
12:16 froh-doh is now known as polettix
12:17 * nothingmuch moos
12:17 agentzh audreyt: same error. should i realclean?
12:18 audreyt rerun makefile.pl would do
12:18 audreyt agentzh: maybe you can help diagnosing this actually
12:18 audreyt I added the flags according to this thread:
12:18 audreyt http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Mai​l/Message/perl-win32-porters/2960188
12:18 lambdabot Title: ExtUtils::ParseXS and lib/CORE/Win32.h :: ASPN Mail Archive :: perl-win32-porter ..., http://tinyurl.com/korck
12:19 agentzh looking now
12:22 nothingmuch @seen clkao
12:22 lambdabot clkao is in #perl6. I don't know when clkao last spoke.
12:22 nothingmuch yesterday
12:22 nothingmuch FECK DRINK ARSE! irssi is lsoooooooooooow
12:24 mauke_ is now known as mauke
12:25 obra nothingmuch: he's off at a cabal meeting
12:28 nothingmuch @larry cabal? or are there more cabals i don't know of?
12:28 lambdabot Maybe you meant: arr yarr
12:28 nothingmuch @yarr
12:28 lambdabot Splice the Mainbrace!
12:28 nothingmuch @arr
12:28 lambdabot Shiver me timbers!
12:28 obra a non-perl cabal
12:28 nothingmuch it's not urgent, i'm just trying to locate lost cookware =)
12:29 obra what?
12:29 * nothingmuch lost his little alu bottle, which he uses to store olive oil when camping
12:29 nothingmuch since my small knife went with cl to england i suspect it met a similar fate
12:30 obra hm. nod. email
12:30 nothingmuch aye
12:30 nothingmuch shower first
12:30 svnbot6 r13365 | audreyt++ | * Finish the s:g/evalPGE/evalPGR/ transition.
12:30 svnbot6 r13365 | audreyt++ | * Remaining open issues:
12:30 svnbot6 r13365 | audreyt++ |     - should there be a pragma (or something else)
12:30 svnbot6 r13365 | audreyt++ |       that switches back to Parrot/PGE for rules?
12:31 svnbot6 r13365 | audreyt++ |     - if not, should we completely remove Pugs.Embed.Parrot?
12:37 agentzh audreyt: after commenting out 2 lines in my activeperl 5.8.7's win32.h, pugs now builds successfully.
12:37 agentzh i'm just wondering why -D didn't take effect.
12:38 agentzh as the last approach, we can patch user's win32.h. :)
12:38 agentzh although that's *bad*.
12:40 audreyt I'm wondering why -D didn't work either.
12:40 agentzh i'm still investigating -D.
12:40 audreyt can you try
12:40 audreyt -DFOOBAR=1
12:40 audreyt or something like that?
12:40 audreyt i.e. don't rely on the implicit -D
12:41 audreyt and explicitly give -D_INTPTR_T_DEFINED=DEFINED
12:41 agentzh i'm already trying. :)
12:41 agentzh aye
12:41 agentzh k
12:43 agentzh oops...same error
12:43 agentzh which compiler is actually using? vc or gcc?
12:43 agentzh *used
12:43 audreyt gcc I think.
12:43 audreyt mingw in particular
12:44 audreyt but -D surely works, as we rely on it to fix the dirent bug
12:44 audreyt can you change src/perl5/p5embed.h
12:44 audreyt and add
12:44 audreyt #define _INTPTR_T_DEFINED
12:44 audreyt #define _UINTPTR_T_DEFINED
12:45 audreyt before the inclusion on EXTERN?
12:45 agentzh a sec
12:45 agentzh adding now
12:45 agentzh k
12:47 agentzh yay...this time surely works. :)
12:48 agentzh i'll remove the useless -D's from Makefile.PL.
12:49 agentzh successfully tested...now commit
12:50 agentzh both 5.8.7 and 5.8.8 work with pugs' perl 5 embedding now.
12:50 agentzh not sure if earlier 5.8.x also works.
12:51 audreyt pretty sure they will also
12:51 audreyt hm.
12:51 audreyt if so, can you test moving DIRENT into p5embed.h too?
12:51 agentzh glad to hear that.
12:52 audreyt that will rid us of the more fragile Makefile.PL band-aid
12:52 agentzh audreyt: will try in the next commit.
12:52 agentzh committing
12:52 audreyt agentzh++
12:53 agentzh :D
12:55 svnbot6 r13366 | agentz++ | [Makefile.PL]
12:55 svnbot6 r13366 | agentz++ | - removed the useless -D's
12:55 svnbot6 r13366 | agentz++ | [src/perl5/p5embed.h]
12:55 svnbot6 r13366 | agentz++ | - added macro definitions to fix activeperl 5.8.x
12:55 svnbot6 r13366 | agentz++ |   embedding problems.
12:55 svnbot6 r13366 | agentz++ | (thanks audreyt++ for helping me)
12:57 xerox joined perl6
12:59 agentzh yay, tonight is fruitful. :)
12:59 audreyt :DD
12:59 svnbot6 r13367 | agentz++ | further moved dirent=DIRENT from Makefile.PL to
12:59 audreyt agentzh: does the new rules stuff work for you?
12:59 svnbot6 r13367 | agentz++ | src/perl5/p5embed.h per audreyt++
13:01 agentzh audreyt: testing now... :)
13:01 svnbot6 r13368 | agentz++ | [ChangeLog]
13:01 svnbot6 r13368 | agentz++ | - s/5.8.8 is required/5.8.x is required/
13:02 agentzh audreyt: btw, how can i test it?
13:02 agentzh sorry for the dumb question.
13:03 agentzh because i got "*** Cannot parse PGE: a"
13:03 agentzh pugs> my $a ~~ /a+/
13:03 agentzh *** Cannot parse PGE: a+
13:04 agentzh audreyt: am i supposed to test the rules like that?
13:04 audreyt well, yeah, but assign $a something :)
13:05 agentzh oh, yes..
13:05 agentzh *** Cannot parse PGE: a+
13:05 agentzh *** Error: fd:10: hGetLine: end of file
13:05 agentzh is this error normal?
13:05 audreyt exit pugs and try again
13:06 audreyt I'm fixing the empty $a bug
13:06 agentzh PGE...oh well...
13:06 agentzh i was expecting "PCR" or something...
13:06 agentzh okay
13:06 audreyt fixed that
13:06 audreyt I mean the msg
13:07 agentzh oh no...my pugs build breaks by dirent...
13:07 svnbot6 r13369 | audreyt++ | * remove "PGE" from msg text
13:08 agentzh because i have 2 perls, so it's sort of messy here...
13:08 agentzh s/so//
13:09 agentzh the dirent problem bites me.
13:10 agentzh i'll revert r13367
13:11 audreyt okie.
13:11 svnbot6 r13370 | audreyt++ | * Error handling for HsBridge.
13:11 audreyt I fixed the ~~/a+/
13:11 agentzh good to learn. :)
13:13 audreyt ?eval 1 ~~ /1/
13:13 evalbot_r13368 *** Cannot parse PGE: 1 *** Error: fd:8: hGetLine: end of file Match.new(   ok => Bool::False,    from => 0,    to => 0,    str => "",    sub_pos => (),    sub_named => {} )
13:13 audreyt ?eval 1 ~~ /1/
13:13 evalbot_r13368 *** Cannot parse PGE: 1 *** Error: fd:8: hGetLine: end of file Match.new(   ok => Bool::False,    from => 0,    to => 0,    str => "",    sub_pos => (),    sub_named => {} )
13:13 audreyt hm.
13:16 agentzh pugs> 'a' ~~ /a/
13:16 agentzh *** Cannot parse regex: a
13:16 agentzh *** Error: fd:4: hGetLine: end of file
13:16 agentzh (r13370)
13:17 audreyt try
13:17 audreyt '1' ~~ rule{a}
13:17 audreyt or
13:17 audreyt 'a' ~~ rule{a}
13:17 Psyche^ joined perl6
13:17 Psyche^ is now known as Patterner
13:17 agentzh k
13:18 agentzh pugs> '1' ~~ rule{a}
13:18 agentzh *** Cannot parse regex: :sigspace(1)[:ratchet(1)[a]]
13:18 agentzh *** Error: fd:7: hGetLine: end of file
13:18 agentzh it looks a bit better. :)
13:18 svnbot6 r13371 | agentz++ | - reverted r13367 since the dirent problem bites me.
13:18 audreyt hmm not really :)
13:18 * audreyt ponders
13:20 audreyt try r13372
13:20 svnbot6 r13372 | audreyt++ | * try to find perl.exe too
13:21 agentzh up'ing
13:22 agentzh r13372 doesn't help.
13:23 agentzh same error here.
13:24 audreyt ponder ponder.
13:24 agentzh :)
13:25 audreyt in pugs directory try this
13:25 audreyt perl -Iperl5/Pugs-Compiler-Rule/lib -MPugs::Runtime::Match::HsBridge -ePugs::Runtime::Match::HsBridge::__CMD__
13:25 audreyt and then type in
13:25 audreyt match 1 1
13:25 audreyt 1
13:25 audreyt 1
13:25 audreyt and see what happens
13:26 agentzh okie
13:27 agentzh OK 20
13:27 agentzh PGE_Match 0 1 [] []
13:27 agentzh that is the output
13:28 agentzh seems good. ;)
13:29 audreyt yeah.
13:29 audreyt ponder pnder.
13:29 audreyt I blame CRLF.
13:29 agentzh hehe
13:30 * agentzh hands audreyt a cup of tea.
13:30 audreyt thanks :)
13:35 * xerox wants tea too!
13:36 obra audreyt: cl and I went to a crazy-fancy restaraunt the other day. after-meal tea had a list of super premium teas...including a USD20 teapot for one of WenShan oolong
13:37 obra I'd brought CL a whole bag of it when I came to visit. we were very amused.
13:37 obra WenShan Baozhong or however it's properly typed
13:38 audreyt WenShan BaoZhong is correct.
13:38 audreyt amusing.
13:39 agentzh LOL
13:40 agentzh USD20 ~~ 160 yuan
13:41 agentzh audreyt: bad news...
13:41 agentzh D:\projects\Pugs2>pugs -Mperl5:CGI -e "say CGI.new"
13:41 agentzh Undefined subroutine CGI::say
13:41 agentzh at -e line 0
13:41 audreyt mm?
13:42 agentzh perl 5 embedding seems broken.
13:42 audreyt it's not
13:42 audreyt CGI has autoload
13:42 audreyt we can't yet deal with fallback.
13:42 audreyt workaround:
13:42 audreyt say CGI.new, ''
13:42 audreyt an alternative is to ignore AUTOLOAD, maybe
13:42 audreyt but that seems wrong also
13:42 agentzh okay
13:43 agentzh CGI=HASH(0x11219a58)
13:43 agentzh yay
13:50 svnbot6 r13373 | audreyt++ | * More attempt at fixing PCR bridge
13:52 xerox agentzh: yuan = ¥ ?
13:52 agentzh aye
13:53 agentzh up'ing
13:55 agentzh audreyt: it worksforme now!!!
13:55 agentzh audreyt++ audreyt++
13:55 audreyt yay!
13:55 agentzh pugs> 'a' ~~ /a/
13:55 agentzh Match.new(
13:55 agentzh  ok => Bool::True,
13:55 agentzh  from => 0,
13:55 agentzh  to => 1,
13:55 agentzh  str => "a",
13:55 agentzh  sub_pos => (),
13:55 agentzh  sub_named => {}
13:55 agentzh )
13:55 audreyt 'a' ~~ /a/
13:55 audreyt ?eval 'a' ~~ /a/
13:58 evalbot_r13373 joined perl6
13:58 agentzh indeed pugs no longer needs parrot. i've removed parrot.exe from my path and pugs' rules still work fine.
14:00 agentzh audreyt: maybe write something on your blog? :)
14:00 agentzh i must say fglock++
14:01 agentzh as well
14:02 audreyt agentzh: maybe write something on _our_ blog? :)
14:02 audreyt you do have a blog bit :)
14:03 agentzh :D
14:03 audreyt (as I need to sleep now :))
14:03 agentzh i'll have a try!
14:03 audreyt agentzh++
14:03 agentzh sleep well audreyt!
14:03 agentzh thanks for PCR integration!
14:03 audreyt thanks for getting to the end of 5.8.x embed! :)
14:03 agentzh it's worth hooray.
14:03 audreyt it's been haunting us for a year :)
14:04 agentzh my pleasure. :D
14:04 audreyt g'nite and have fun :) *hugs*
14:04 agentzh night!
14:10 putter joined perl6
14:10 * agentzh has a lot of funny stuff on pugs to write.
14:10 putter (ah, shift change:)
14:10 putter 'night audreyt
14:12 audreyt putter: 'night :)
14:12 audreyt have fun playing with new rules engine :)
14:13 audreyt (one that you can much easily hack, hopefully.)
14:13 putter :)
14:13 putter profound thanks :)
14:13 * agentzh grins.
14:13 audreyt *curtsies* *waves*
14:13 audreyt &
14:14 obra        
14:16 Limbic_Region joined perl6
14:16 agentzh Limbic_Region: please test the win32 pugs build and rules support when you have a chance. :)
14:17 Limbic_Region test how - smoke?
14:17 eden_c joined perl6
14:17 agentzh nope, "perl Makefile.PL && nmake fast"
14:18 Limbic_Region oh, just see if it builds
14:18 Limbic_Region was in the middle of doing that anyway
14:18 agentzh yeah
14:18 agentzh good
14:18 agentzh "perl Makefile.PL" is important.
14:19 Limbic_Region yeah, part of my regular routine since Win32 has so many issues that other platforms don't seem to
14:19 agentzh lol
14:20 agentzh that is also an advantage.
14:20 agentzh (to be an essential tester) :)
14:21 * agentzh is also sleepy since he's in the same timezone as audreyt.
14:22 Limbic_Region so if I understand your apparent excitement correctly - there should be no need for parrot to do rules in pugs?
14:22 agentzh anyway, i'll finish the post before sleep.
14:22 agentzh yup!
14:22 Limbic_Region well, I am half way through the build (had already started without fast) so it should be done in 5 minutes or so
14:22 agentzh that's a long-overdue improvement.
14:22 putter |add todo For pil2js, enable p5 embedding (or the reverse) by default.  Then use PCR to provide rules support.
14:23 putter Hmm, |todo add ...
14:23 agentzh no hurry
14:23 putter but no project manager bot.  ah well.
14:23 agentzh i'm pondering what to write about on the pugs blog.
14:23 Limbic_Region well, when I suggested it - I had no idea how far people would take the idea
14:24 agentzh indeed, it's suggested by LR.
14:24 agentzh *was
14:25 agentzh i remember your conversation with audreyt.
14:25 agentzh she showed you some pieces of haskell code, which scaried me a lot.
14:26 agentzh when she said "that's easy", i said "wow" to myself.
14:26 Limbic_Region well, I doubt that I was the only one to think of it though I did so independently
14:27 Limbic_Region and my vision of its usefullness was certainly short sighted - apparently it has many many more benefits than I realized
14:27 Limbic_Region agentzh - build finished fine
14:27 Limbic_Region working on the post build modules like v6 now
14:27 agentzh great
14:28 Limbic_Region so is there a specific test I should run to verify it isn't calling parrot??
14:28 * agentzh seldom runs "nmake" since it's terribly slow.
14:28 Limbic_Region On this machine it seldom takes longer than 20 minutes even from scratch
14:28 agentzh 'abc' ~~ /\w+/ should be sufficient.
14:28 Limbic_Region I can live with that
14:28 Limbic_Region k
14:28 putter I was just now thinking "audreyt++ fglock++ <rub hands together>  I can't wait for the compile to finish.  It's just like Christmas." ;) ;)
14:28 Limbic_Region I will be back in a few
14:29 agentzh putter: aye
14:30 agentzh "audreyt++ and fglock++ rub hands together" is a good title for my post. :)
14:31 putter err, well, if you think so... :)
14:31 agentzh putter: do you have any insane plans on this which i can write down?
14:32 putter expectation management rule 13 for world domination - never write down insane plans
14:32 agentzh hmm, that makes much sense. :)
14:36 Limbic_Region ?eval say 'abc' ~~ /w+/
14:36 evalbot_r13373 OUTPUT[ ] Bool::True
14:36 Limbic_Region agentzh - I don't get the same results
14:36 Limbic_Region I get 'abc'
14:36 Limbic_Region but no errors and nothing blows up
14:37 agentzh 'abc'?
14:37 Limbic_Region yes
14:37 Limbic_Region pugs -e "say 'abc' ~~ /\w+/"
14:37 Limbic_Region output 'abc'
14:37 agentzh on pugs> ?
14:37 Limbic_Region let me try it from the shell
14:38 agentzh yes, i also get 'abc' via the oneliner
14:38 agentzh which is expected.
14:38 Termy joined perl6
14:38 Limbic_Region there I get "'abc'\nBool::True"
14:38 Limbic_Region ok
14:38 Limbic_Region then all is right in the world
14:39 Limbic_Region I wiped out %PATH before testing
14:39 agentzh yep
14:39 agentzh that's good
14:42 agentzh (i removed parrot.exe directly before testing)
14:43 putter @tell audreyt re rule_recursive.t, yesterday you said it works for you, due to PCR.  I'm getting non-termination of  rule r { <null> | x <r> } 'x' ~~ /<r>$/  Fyi.
14:43 lambdabot Consider it noted.
14:46 putter @tell audreyt oops, no it's not (non terminating).  Just looks like rules aren't working yet.  'a' ~~ /a/ works, rule r { a } 'a' ~~ /<r>/ doesn't yet.
14:46 lambdabot Consider it noted.
14:49 LimbicRegion joined perl6
14:50 putter hmm, do we have a spec'ed $^N mechanism?  I don't immediately see it...
14:51 int-e joined perl6
14:52 LimbicRegion ?
14:53 LimbicRegion is now known as Limbic_Region
14:53 Limbic_Region better
15:02 * agentzh finds the string "Limbic_Region" particularly difficult to type.
15:02 agentzh (no offense)
15:03 Limbic_Region you don't have tab completion?
15:03 Limbic_Region in this particular channel - Lim should be sufficient
15:03 Limbic_Region heck - my client doesn't even require the initial cap
15:03 mako132_ joined perl6
15:04 agentzh LR: no, my irc client is not so smart.
15:05 agentzh oh...wait...tab completion? oh, yes!
15:05 Limbic_Region heh
15:05 * agentzh has tried out this feature for the first time.
15:05 lanny joined perl6
15:05 * Limbic_Region wonders how long agentz has been using this client without knowing about tab completion
15:06 agentzh 2 months or so.
15:06 agentzh and i often mistype audreyt as auderyt.
15:07 lanny agentzh: turned your insertion sort failure into a test.  Seems NEXT {} causes for @x loops to fail.
15:07 agentzh lanny: i'm aware of that. :)
15:07 lanny Well now there is a test to show it. :)
15:07 agentzh in fact, i'm the "author" of t/closure_traits/next.t
15:08 lanny or there will be when I commit.
15:08 agentzh lanny: you've added it?
15:08 agentzh lanny++
15:09 * agentzh goes back to journaling.
15:09 lanny Just building pugs from LATEST  to make sure nobody slipped in a fix on me.  Had more than one bug solved between the time I discovered and time I wrote the test.
15:10 agentzh lanny: that's not very likely
15:10 agentzh especially when audreyt is sleeping.
15:10 lanny No.  I didn't think so either.  But it keeps me  in practice for  doing it  at the job that pays my mortgage.
15:11 Limbic_Region lanny - you should have been around in the early days of pugs
15:11 agentzh lol
15:11 Limbic_Region bug fixes happen quickly now but they aren't found as quickly
15:12 lanny Heh.  Would have been too wooly for my tastes I think.
15:12 Limbic_Region back then when bugs were rampant - you could have a dozen bug fixes in the time you were writing the test to expose the bug
15:12 agentzh i'll be insanely happy if fixes are so many.
15:13 agentzh Limbic_Region: seen my toy haskell programs? comments welcome. :)
15:13 jabbot agentzh: I havn't seen my, agentzh
15:13 agentzh http://svn.berlios.de/svnroot/​repos/unisimu/Java/exercises/
15:13 lambdabot Title: Revision 702: /Java/exercises, http://tinyurl.com/fca7r
15:14 agentzh these problems are part of my schoolwork for Java.
15:14 agentzh i've implemented them in Java, Haskell, Perl 6, and possibly Perl 5.
15:15 agentzh to be honest, i like Haskell most.
15:15 agentzh it's the cleanest and also the fastest.
15:15 agentzh the relative efficiency for these languages is as follows:
15:15 agentzh GHC > perl 5 > Java > pugs
15:16 Limbic_Region agentzh - sorry, was AFK
15:16 agentzh no problem. :)
15:16 Limbic_Region have not seen it - link?
15:16 Limbic_Region the Java exercises are really haskell?
15:16 agentzh http://svn.berlios.de/svnroot/​repos/unisimu/Java/exercises/
15:16 lambdabot Title: Revision 702: /Java/exercises, http://tinyurl.com/fca7r
15:16 agentzh i've done them in 3 languages.
15:17 Limbic_Region oh great
15:17 Limbic_Region that should help me a bit I think
15:17 Limbic_Region I am still slowly pushing my way through YAHT
15:17 agentzh :)
15:17 agentzh YAHT is great
15:17 agentzh but is not enough.
15:18 Limbic_Region well, I play as I go
15:18 Limbic_Region which makes each chapter painfully slow
15:18 Limbic_Region typically because I try to get ahead of the chapter
15:18 agentzh i think that's a good way to learn. :)
15:18 Limbic_Region and with haskell - I really need to force my way through because it just doesn't fit in my head but one way (apparently)
15:18 agentzh Limbic_Region++
15:19 lanny ha ha.  agentzh: I thought next.t was full of passing tests.  :)  Should have run the whole thing first.
15:19 agentzh Limbic_Region: i had exactly the same feeling one year ago.
15:19 Limbic_Region well, this isn't the first time I have tried
15:19 agentzh Limbic_Region: i even gave up learning at that time.
15:19 agentzh lanny: (!)
15:19 * Limbic_Region gave up multiple times
15:20 * agentzh giggles.
15:20 Limbic_Region but that's because too many concepts were foreign - there was no way to build a bridge from what I knew to what I didn't
15:20 Limbic_Region YAHT is taking one thing at a time
15:20 agentzh yes
15:20 agentzh and also "Haskell Tutorial for C programmers"
15:21 agentzh the latter really gave confidence to me.
15:21 Limbic_Region and it isn't completely true to say that there are many concepts that are foreign.  Conceptually I get them but my brain just refuses to think in those terms
15:21 Limbic_Region I am now able to isolate things and then just work on that until my brain gives in
15:21 agentzh Limbic_Region: i think we're in complete agreement.
15:21 Limbic_Region agentzh++
15:22 agentzh i'll dive into Parsec later.
15:23 agentzh hopefully i can hack under src/ soon. :D
15:23 Limbic_Region well - I think Parsec is Haskell's answer to YAP right
15:23 svnbot6 r13374 | lanny++ | next.t: one small test
15:23 svnbot6 r13374 | lanny++ | sort.t: minor syntax  changes
15:23 xerox YAP?
15:23 Limbic_Region if you grok YAPC or YAPP then you should be all set
15:23 agentzh Yapp
15:24 agentzh Limbic_Region: i've written self-hosted backtracking recursive descent parser in the last term.
15:24 Limbic_Region oh, so it should be a snap
15:24 agentzh and also a working LL(1) parser generator.
15:24 Limbic_Region and yap should have been yac
15:25 agentzh well, the error handling part in Parsec is kind of new to me.
15:25 Limbic_Region well, I have recently done a project comparing p::rd, p:yapp, hop::parser, parse::earley,, etc
15:25 Limbic_Region I haven't even looked at it - so completely foreign to me
15:25 agentzh yeah, you were seeking every bit of info on parsing modules during a while.
15:26 agentzh parsec seems to be a top-down parser.
15:26 agentzh yapp is bottom-up iirc.
15:27 Limbic_Region interesting
15:27 Limbic_Region I am likely misinformed or just misremembering
15:27 lanny Hmm.  Yapp page says it's recursive descent
15:27 agentzh lanny: ah, i didn't know.
15:28 putter is there a p5 or p6 packrat parser yet?
15:28 agentzh Parse::Yapp - Perl extension for generating and using LALR parsers.
15:28 agentzh lanny: LALR is recursive descent?
15:28 agentzh lanny: i don't think so.
15:29 * agentzh got 97' in his compiler theory exam.
15:29 putter came across a scm2cl'ed CL packrat autoderived from a scheme packrat.  thought we could easily play the same game.
15:29 * Limbic_Region almost flunked out of highschool
15:29 lanny I'm just reading off the page.  Don't blame me.  :)
15:30 agentzh lanny: i was not. :)
15:30 Limbic_Region packrat is speedy choice when backtracking is going to be a large part of the parsing right - but if no backtracking then overkill?
15:30 lanny aha.  I was looking at o-xml's yapp
15:30 agentzh heh
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15:31 lanny No.  LALR should be shift-reduce and  table driven if  I recall my compiler class correctly
15:31 agentzh lanny: yes, it's a shift/reduce parser.
15:31 lanny I made someone less than 97's though.
15:31 agentzh *and* it is a bottom-up parser.
15:31 lanny s/someone/somewhat/
15:32 agentzh if LALR is top-down, it won't be so powerful.
15:33 Limbic_Region well, I am off to watch a movie with my wife - TTFN all
15:33 lanny Bye, Limbic
15:33 lanny I should figure  out something to do with my little girls on such a nice day.  Laters, agentzh.
15:33 agentzh lanny: have a good time :)
15:34 * agentzh restarts journaling.
15:36 putter note that LALR is actually a characterizes the grammar, rather than the parser.  given a grammar with characteristics x, one can use a parsing technique q.  and a single grammar inevitably has different sections with different characteristics.  which one can use different parsing tech on.  the current,
15:36 zgh joined perl6
15:37 putter long standing, situation where parsers only handle one parser tech, and thus on flavor of grammar, is a horrible software eng pathology which p6 will hopefully eliminate.  one of many likely contributions to the world of p6. ;)
15:39 putter hmm, there's an analogy.  just as ruby on rails is driving other languages to do similar things, and p4/5 drove languages to include regexps, p6 will hopefully drive a fix to a 30+ "our parsers suck" bottleneck.
15:40 agentzh i most like p6's regex feature. :)
15:41 agentzh i've noticed how p6 has been combining different parsing strategies into a whole.
15:41 agentzh that is a really charming direction.
15:42 agentzh consider we have both top-down parsing and bottom-up parsing in a single parser...wow...
15:42 putter agreed.  universal parser.
15:42 agentzh indeed
15:43 putter hmm...  just in case there's a misunderstanding...
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15:44 putter the p6 parser, ie that parses p6 code, is indeed a sandwich parser.  top down to expr, then bottom up, on tokens defined top down.  but,
15:44 agentzh bottom up on operators, right? hehe
15:44 agentzh top down on tokens, yeah
15:45 putter the underlying rules machinery should be able to handle *anything*.  thus the universal parser concept.  "parser" is getting overloaded in this conversation. ;)
15:45 agentzh any data structures?
15:45 putter any grammar.  left recursive, right recursive, no lookahead, infinite lookahead, etc
15:46 agentzh ah
15:46 agentzh that is really awesome. :)
15:46 putter yes :)
15:46 agentzh we need a very big test suite for this.
15:46 putter lol
15:46 agentzh s/big/good/
15:46 weinig is now known as weinig|bbl
15:47 agentzh testing parsers is particularly tricky.
15:47 agentzh debugging one is even trickier.
15:49 putter once we start being able to run other languages' code, we can use their test suites.  ie, if you have Parser::Convert::FromYacc, and, sigh, probably also need Language::C::Interpreter, you can then run the yacc test suite.
15:49 agentzh hmm, that is very clever.
15:50 agentzh but i'm doubting if it would also make debugging even more difficult.
15:50 agentzh the test suite should be divided into different levels.
15:50 putter cpan needs a tcc package.  maybe a cint package too.  weeee.
15:50 agentzh lower levels test basic things while higher levels test advanced features.
15:51 putter now that macs are x86 :)
15:51 agentzh tcc?
15:51 putter http://fabrice.bellard.free.fr/tcc/
15:51 lambdabot Title: TCC : Tiny C Compiler
15:51 agentzh oh
15:51 putter note libtcc, a library which can compile and link C code at runtime without touching disk.
15:52 agentzh awesome...
15:53 putter re levels, yes, borg'ing test suites (need to find a less perjorative name for the process) is more of a coverage approach
15:54 putter s/coverage approach/way to obtain broad test coverage/
15:57 putter hmm.  what is the canonical way to run v6?   with pwd == pugs, perl -I...??.... -e 'use v6;' ?
15:58 eden_c joined perl6
15:59 putter man page assumes v6.pm is in lib/, which it isn't, even after make test...
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16:10 putter fglock, et al: is it possible to run v6 out of the pugs directories, rather than installing it and thus having version issues?
16:13 avarab joined perl6
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16:18 putter feather folks: perhaps we could have a p5 v6 bot running?
16:19 putter anyone: want to write the p5 utility code for a boxed (set up clean directory, chroot, resource limit) perl running v6?
16:20 putter hmm, or just sbox a cgi.
16:23 * rafl_ would like to do that.
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16:25 TimToady hmm, my make smoke hung on ext/Perl6-Grammar/t/basic.t, not using any CPU.  Looked like an infinite sleep or something...
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16:28 putter me too.  audreyt swapped out PGE for PCR before heading off to sleep.  so there's a bit of brokenness just now.
16:30 putter one should be able to revert to say r13356 to get the old rx engine.
16:31 avarab is now known as avar
16:33 putter later &
16:37 TimToady it's waiting for a subprocess:
16:37 TimToady USER       PID %CPU %MEM    VSZ   RSS TTY      STAT START   TIME COMMAND
16:37 TimToady larry     2876  0.5  0.5  12268  8536 pts/7    S+   09:33   0:00 /usr/bin/perl -Iperl5/Pugs-Compiler-Rule/lib -MPugs::Runtime::Match::HsBridge -ePugs::Runtime::Match::HsBridge::__CMD__
16:37 Psyche^ is now known as Patterner
16:37 TimToady maybe it's finding an old installed Pugs-Compiler-Rule or something...
16:42 svnbot6 r13375 | agentz++ | [util/podhtm.pl]
16:42 svnbot6 r13375 | agentz++ | - emits HTML to stdout if no --out is specified.
16:44 larsen joined perl6
16:44 TimToady nope, removed those, and it still hangs.
16:46 TimToady probably just getting out of sync pipewise.
16:47 TimToady as with parrot, I'd much rather run an embedded PCR than a piped one...
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17:03 svnbot6 r13376 | audreyt++ | * 18:47 < TimToady> as with parrot, I'd much rather run an embedded PCR than a piped one...
17:03 svnbot6 r13376 | audreyt++ |   ...as usual, your wish line is my command line. :-)
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17:13 pasteling "agentzh" at 210.22.200.67 pasted "Pugs blog draft (please review)" (41 lines, 1.5K) at http://sial.org/pbot/19730
17:16 pasteling "agentzh" at 210.22.200.67 pasted "oops, can't get access to irc any more...sigh. but i can read the irc log." (1 line, 9B) at http://sial.org/pbot/19731
17:17 svnbot6 r13377 | audreyt++ | * Allow for rule redefinition via ->reinstall.
17:17 audreyt agentzh: there's nothing "pure Perl 5 + XS" about it
17:17 lambdabot audreyt: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
17:17 audreyt it's true that PadWalker is XS and is maybe reuiared for /<$foo>/
17:17 audreyt but for the part that pugs currently uses you don't need to install anything
17:17 audreyt zero dependency
17:17 audreyt lambdabot: @messages
17:17 lambdabot putter said 2h 34m 44s ago: re rule_recursive.t, yesterday you said it works for you, due to PCR. I'm getting non-termination of rule r { <null> | x <r> } 'x' ~~ /<r>$/ Fyi.
17:17 lambdabot putter said 2h 31m 57s ago: oops, no it's not (non terminating). Just looks like rules aren't working yet. 'a' ~~ /a/ works, rule r { a } 'a' ~~ /<r>/ doesn't yet.
17:18 pasteling "agentzh" at 210.22.200.67 pasted "Okay, so i should say "pure Perl 5"?" (1 line, 9B) at http://sial.org/pbot/19732
17:18 audreyt yes.
17:19 audreyt you can also mention that this reuses the now-on-by-default perl5embed
17:19 audreyt which thanks to a certain agentzh++ now works on win32 for activeperl 5.8.anything also.
17:19 pasteling "agentzh" at 210.22.200.67 pasted "okay. audreyt: btw, pugs hangs on regexes like ' abc' ~~ /<ws>+ \w+/. is that normal?" (1 line, 9B) at http://sial.org/pbot/19733
17:20 audreyt maybe you want /<space>+\w+/ ?
17:20 audreyt but infloop is certainly not normal
17:20 audreyt alarm() support welcome on the HsBridge...
17:20 audreyt anyway, the blog post looks good :)
17:21 audreyt agentzh++
17:21 audreyt *back to sleep*
17:21 pasteling "agentzh" at 210.22.200.67 pasted "ahhhh" (1 line, 8B) at http://sial.org/pbot/19734
17:21 audreyt @tell putter named rules is now in as well.
17:21 lambdabot Consider it noted.
17:30 putter joined perl6
17:30 putter thanks audreyt
17:30 lambdabot putter: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
17:30 putter you beat me to the commit, though yours is cleaner. ;)
17:37 pasteling "agentzh" at 210.22.200.67 pasted "journal's up: http://pugs.blogs.com/pugs/ Good night, everyone~~~ &" (1 line, 8B) at http://sial.org/pbot/19735
17:40 putter TimToady: my experience is a mature piped solution can be even more reliable than an embedded one, unless the embedded engine was written with embeddability being a primary focus.
17:47 svnbot6 r13378 | putter++ | A HsBridge.pm hang fixed.  Now correctly exit()s when there are PCR errors.
17:47 svnbot6 r13378 | putter++ | Such as '^' not implemented, Emitter/Rule/Perl5.pm line 361,
17:47 svnbot6 r13378 | putter++ | with perl -Iblib6/lib ext/Perl6-Grammar/t/basic.t .
17:51 nothingmuch in which syn is the longest token rule specced?
17:56 putter a grep turns it up in a bunch of ./Perl6/Spec/ , def in Rule.pod, which refers to it as venerable. :)  checking rule Snn...
17:56 putter S05
18:00 putter appearances also in sub, syn, and op.  which correspond to... hmm... dont see the fetch in my make log...  curious.
18:06 putter ghc is giving off C++ vibes - change one line, and watch the universe recompile. :/
18:06 nothingmuch putter++
18:11 svnbot6 r13379 | putter++ | Avoid losing the first line of error messages from the PCR rx engine.
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18:13 * putter wonders if PCR really could possibly have not implemented ^.  seems unlikely.
18:16 Aankhen`` joined perl6
18:16 putter TimToady: re smoke, basic.t now doesn't hang.  I'm running the t/rules/ tests now.
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18:55 putter soo... anyone who wants to hack p5 code, perl5/Pugs-Compiler-Rule/lib​/Pugs/Emitter/Rule/Perl5.pm would be a place to start.
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19:04 putter running smoke...
19:04 avar joined perl6
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19:07 putter @tell fglock It could be useful to do a "interview the expert" with you sometime, to get a brain dump of how PCR etc work.  Though I'm still exploring, so that may already exists. :)
19:07 lambdabot Consider it noted.
19:20 Limbic_Region joined perl6
19:24 putter eep.  that was quite the interesting sentence,
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19:29 svnbot6 r13380 | kudra++ | This week's summary, a little early
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19:46 TimToady I should not have bragged about my server staying up for six months...it just crashed.
19:50 svnbot6 r13381 | zgh++ | typo: the HTTP::Simple::Server bug was happening with the default port was *not* used
19:51 putter And there are very many people who would believe there is causality or correlation there. :/
19:52 zgh uptime is a false ideal anyway
19:53 Khisanth TimToady: but at least now you know it is listening :)
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20:50 putter smoke up
20:51 putter hmm, more recent smoke already up.  err, just how does one get a smoke in 30 min??  ghc 6.5?  very wizzy machine?  magic incantations I have... neglected... oops.  Precompiled Test I assume.  Ah well. ;)
20:53 svnbot6 r13382 | putter++ | pX/Common/regexp_engine_cruft/ created.
20:53 svnbot6 r13382 | putter++ | Learning PCR Ratchet.pm, I was trying to remember how some old spike-related factory code worked.  Which had never been checked in.  Now it has.
20:59 TimToady it's just a thinkpad.
20:59 TimToady ghc 6.4.2
21:00 TimToady and I always compile optimized
21:00 TimToady because I have enough memory to do it fairly rapidly
21:00 TimToady (1.5Gb)
21:02 TimToady (also I'd mostly recompiled before from when it was hanging...)
21:04 TimToady but it's the thinkpad obra++, so I think it came with some extra TLC.
21:04 TimToady s/,/gave me,/
21:06 TimToady anyway, thanks for the fix! putter++
21:12 svnbot6 r13383 | putter++ | Pugs/Compiler/Regex.pm - fixed "unknown parameter 's'" error.  Eg, in t/rules/from_perl6_rules/word.t .
21:13 putter Ah, obra magic.  No doubt.  ;)
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22:01 weinig is now known as weinig|bbl
22:08 pasteling "putter" at 66.30.119.55 pasted "PCR errors for t/rules/, sorted by file." (402 lines, 39.2K) at http://sial.org/pbot/19739
22:09 pasteling "putter" at 66.30.119.55 pasted "PCR errors for t/rules/, sorted by error." (287 lines, 37.3K) at http://sial.org/pbot/19740
22:13 putter I was looking into <null> error.  No joy.  While the HsBridge.pm use()s don't quite match the Pugs/Compiler/Rule.pm pod, I didn't quite see how sub null is intended to be inherited.
22:15 putter Oh, the "PCR errors" pasts are from an old run.  The "unknown parameter 's'" errors are gone.
22:18 putter everyone: it's all perl _5_, there is a list of failing tests... come play! :)
22:19 putter src/Pugs/Embed/Perl5.hs calls perl5/Pugs-Compiler-Rule/lib/P​ugs/Runtime/Match/HsBridge.pm , and all subsequent activity is under perl5/Pugs-Compiler-Rule/lib/Pugs/ .
22:21 putter pugs is just  doing "perl -Iperl5/Pugs-Compiler-Rule/lib -MPugs::Runtime::Match::HsBridge -ePugs::Runtime::Match::HsBridge::__CMD__", so no haskell knowledge needed...
22:21 putter night &
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22:35 dduncan can I get something clarified? ... given how it is now being used, is embedded Perl 5 a hard dependency for Pugs now, such that it won't work for practical purposes without Perl 5 being embedded?
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22:36 dduncan if it is a hard dependency, then are we still also using PCRE, or was that dropped in favor of using "the original" for :perl5 regexes?
22:42 dduncan or, should I say, *will* PCRE be dropped, or is PCRE still easier to use for our purposes that warrants it being an extra dependency?
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23:22 svnbot6 r13384 | Darren_Duncan++ | ext/[Locale-KeyedText|Rosetta]/ : replaced any perl5 regexes with normal Perl 6 rules, now that they would compile without an embedded Parrot
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23:43 svnbot6 r13385 | markstos++ | [Changelog]
23:43 svnbot6 r13385 | markstos++ |     Updated list of CGI.pm changes to be comprehensive.
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23:56 zgh is there documentation about the redesign of CGI.pm for perl6?
23:56 zgh i saw it mentioned in the summary
23:56 zgh i can't get it to work with HTTP::Server::Simple right now either...
23:56 markstos zgh: There is no grand plan. Darren Duncan posted ideas about what he' d like to see, but anyone is welcome to hack on it.
23:56 lambdabot markstos: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
23:57 markstos zgh: Would you like some help fixing HTTP::Server::Simple to work with the current CGI.pm design ?
23:58 zgh indeed, it just seems like %*ENV isn't making it around, but it's hard to tell
23:58 markstos specific failing test reference please?
23:59 zgh markstos: I could sure use some pointers in that regard
23:59 zgh ah ... well I have none
23:59 zgh yet!
23:59 markstos Ok, write a test for HTTP::Server::Simple that fails in a way that is related to CGI.pm, and I'll look at it if you want.

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