Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #perl6, 2006-10-17

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo | Niecza | Specs

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 TreyHarris TimToady: that precedence is really, really unintuitive in the extreme.
00:00 lanny ?eval pick 33
00:00 evalbot_r14375 Error: pick not defined: VInt 33
00:00 TimToady it's only off by one.  :)
00:00 lanny ?eval pick (33)
00:00 evalbot_r14375 Error: pick not defined: VInt 33
00:00 lanny oh, right
00:00 lanny ?eval pick (33,)
00:01 evalbot_r14375 33
00:01 lanny ?eval pick (33,)..77
00:01 evalbot_r14375 7
00:01 TreyHarris i would expect range ops to bind very tight
00:01 lanny :)
00:01 TimToady they're non chaining because you can't do $a .. $b .. $c
00:01 lanny There's your answer, TreyHarris.  7
00:02 jojo ?eval pick (1..1e10)
00:02 evalbot_r14375 pugs: out of memory (requested 1048576 bytes)
00:03 TimToady pugs isn't range object savvy yet...
00:04 TreyHarris TimToady: it's a chaining issue, not a prec issue?  i mean, to me, .. "feels" like **... it should bind tightly enough to where i can treat a range as a single thing like i treat an exponentiated number as a single thing...
00:04 jojo well, at least it gave a sensible error
00:04 TimToady what should abs $a <=> abs $b give you?
00:05 TimToady abs $a .. abs $b is the same
00:05 TimToady if .. were as tight as ** you'd have to be saying ($a-1)..($b+1) all the time.
00:06 TreyHarris i'd expect to do that, as otherwise i'd think i'd get $a - (1..$b) + 1, which is silly.
00:06 lanny ?eval say pick (5,)..10
00:06 evalbot_r14375 OUTPUT[3␤] Bool::True
00:07 TreyHarris i need to ask audreyt what font she's using for IRC... there is no font installed on the Mac that has that NL character evalbot uses
00:07 TimToady she just gets "NL" herself, is my understanding.
00:08 TreyHarris (Macs let you search by codepoint for fonts with that character, so i know none of mine have it)
00:08 lanny ?eval say 5..10
00:08 evalbot_r14375 OUTPUT[5678910␤] Bool::True
00:08 lanny Ok.  Why doesn't 'pick (5,)..10' give me 5..10?
00:09 TimToady beats me
00:09 lanny :)  A test!
00:09 TimToady ?eval say (5,)..10
00:09 evalbot_r14375 OUTPUT[12345678910␤] Bool::True
00:09 jojo ?eval print 1
00:09 evalbot_r14375 OUTPUT[1] Bool::True
00:09 TimToady I'd say it's taking the length of (5,)
00:10 TreyHarris lanny: (5,) in scalar context is... yes.  ==TimToady
00:10 jojo ?eval say 1
00:10 evalbot_r14375 OUTPUT[1␤] Bool::True
00:10 TreyHarris so you're saying 1..10
00:10 lanny But I'm pick-ing it.
00:10 TimToady no you're not
00:10 lanny ?eval say pick (5,)..10
00:10 evalbot_r14375 OUTPUT[6␤] Bool::True
00:10 TimToady ?eval say pick(5,)..10
00:10 evalbot_r14375 Error: pick not defined: VInt 5
00:11 lanny aha.  Ok.  I see it now
00:11 TimToady P6 is *very* picky about whitespace before postfixes.
00:11 lanny I don't understand it.  But I see it.
00:12 lanny ?eval say pick(33,)
00:12 evalbot_r14375 Error: pick not defined: VInt 33
00:12 jojo is "say" perl6 or bot-specific?
00:12 lanny ?eval say pick (33,)
00:12 evalbot_r14375 OUTPUT[33␤] Bool::True
00:13 TreyHarris is there a POE irc channel?  i've gummed up this app with debug logging, and I *know* my event generator's getting called several times, but while my event handler gets called the right *number* of times, it's getting the first set of data each time...
00:14 TimToady pick with whitespace is always a list operator.
00:14 lanny It surprised me that pick (33,) gives 33 but pick (33,)..77 really gives pick (1..77) after the conversation you and TreyHarris were having on ..
00:15 lanny I see why now.
00:15 lanny ?eval pick (pick (33,))..77
00:15 evalbot_r14375 72
00:15 lanny tada
00:17 lanny jojo: perl6.  check out http://syn.pugscode.org
00:17 lambdabot Title: Official Perl 6 Documentation
00:21 jojo thanks lanny . i see say all over it. i don't immediately find the justification
00:21 jojo but i will never object to taking two letters off print
00:21 jojo is $\ obsolete?
00:23 TimToady jojo, yes.
00:24 TimToady that sort of thing should now be done by the filehandles.
00:24 TimToady infact, default input filehandle autochomps now.
00:25 jojo arguably, that would always have been correct
00:25 nekokak joined perl6
00:25 TimToady wouldn't have worked in earlier Perl
00:26 TimToady because an empty newline would have been false.
00:26 TimToady now that we use for instead of while, it works much better.
00:26 TimToady but for "for" to work well, lists had to become lazy.
00:26 jojo good point.  i always use defined ($line = <>)
00:27 jojo actually, does perl5 -ln have the same problem?
00:29 TimToady no, because perl 5 hacks in a hidden defined() for you.
00:29 TimToady but it's a kludge
00:29 TimToady while in p6 is not special that way.
00:31 jojo that is nasty, especially since p5 man perlrun shows the loop without defined
00:31 TimToady there are many, many nasty things in p5...
00:31 jojo and p5 man version of the loop is correct in terms of braces and that nasty golf hack
00:34 pasteling "bsb" at 203.214.67.82 pasted "more $_ defaulting prints and says" (14 lines, 350B) at http://sial.org/pbot/20496
00:36 TimToady the S04 example is not actually incorrect.
00:36 TimToady (it's using a feed ==> to supply print's arguments)
00:38 bsb I wasn't sure about that one
00:39 bsb I still mistakenly think of ==> like a map sometimes
00:40 bsb maybe that's not completely wrong from a certain angle...
00:47 gugod joined perl6
00:51 TimToady decommute &
00:53 Pomin joined perl6
00:55 gugod joined perl6
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02:41 weinig is now known as weinigZzZ
02:41 svnbot6 r14376 | audreyt++ | * Another pass at ChangeLog...
02:43 lanny joined perl6
02:53 putter joined perl6
02:55 putter For Boston area folks, there is a Sage http://sage.soe.ucsc.edu/ talk on Wednesday.  https://lists.ccs.neu.edu/piperm​ail/pl-seminar/2006/000356.html . Fyi.
02:55 lambdabot Title: Sage: A Programming Language with Hybrid Type-Checking
03:00 lanny Very odd.  My win32 pugs build runs fine except if I just type ./pugs when it hangs and never gives output of any kind.
03:00 audreyt surely you mean .\pugs ?
03:00 lambdabot audreyt: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
03:00 audreyt @messages
03:00 lambdabot Limbic_Region said 1d 7h 46m 17s ago: r14363 smokes 100% ok for me on Win32
03:00 lambdabot lanny said 5h 5m 24s ago: Pugs::Doc::Hack refers to grabbing Bundle::Pugs::SmokeKit rather than Task::Smoke
03:00 lanny mingw.  mean ./pugs
03:01 audreyt lanny: please fix Pugs::Doc::Hack and commit
03:01 audreyt ho hum. not sure what's going on
03:01 lanny audreyt: gladly. where do I find it?  (or I would have)
03:01 audreyt docs/Pugs/Doc/Hack.pod
03:01 lanny Ok.  Do I feel silly.  I figured that was .hs documentation.
03:02 audreyt :)
03:03 lanny Ok.  Someone's already fixed it.  But CPAN still has it as Bundle::Pugs::Hack and pugscode.org points to that
03:03 audreyt that's okay today CPAN will be populated with a new pugs
03:05 lanny Also I found a workaround to nmake1.5.  I hand-edited the Makefile and removed the Makefile run of docs/perl6.  Been trying to tracedown how to break up the size of the stanza in docs/perl6/Makefile but ExtUtils::MakeMaker is scary
03:06 audreyt yeah, you can maybe write a Makefile postprocessor?
03:06 audreyt I'd like to see that fixed
03:07 lanny I'm pretty sure I could hack up a postprocessor.  Was hoping to do it correctly but will get it working and then will get it right.
03:07 audreyt first get it working and then refactor
03:08 audreyt in that order :)
03:08 clkao audreyt: hey
03:08 audreyt hey clkao
03:08 clkao in US already?
03:08 lanny Smoke in 19 minutes.  :)
03:09 clkao audreyt: http://flickr.com/photos/clkao/271801444/
03:09 lambdabot Title: "Why Subversion hasn't taken over the world" on Flickr - Photo Sharing!
03:09 audreyt clkao: no, plane takes off tomorrow
03:15 audreyt clkao: lol # "We've taken over the white board"
03:15 audreyt "take over the white board, one bullet at a time"
03:20 svnbot6 r14377 | lanny++ | * Pugs::Doc::Hack.pod - mention smoke.yml as param to smokeserv-client.pl
03:29 lanny 'make smoke' shouldn't find a failure that succeeds with prove6 or './pugs -Iblib6/lib' I take it?
03:29 audreyt maybe it's todo
03:30 audreyt but yes
03:30 lanny Not a :todo.  Re-running smoke and seeing what it says
03:39 svnbot6 r14378 | audreyt++ | * ChangeLog: 47 lines left...
03:40 SubStack joined perl6
03:47 lanny It passed this time.  Odd.   Cosmic ray I guess.
03:47 svnbot6 r14379 | audreyt++ | * ChangeLog: 39 lines left...
03:52 gnuvince audreyt: is that 39 lines until release?
03:54 reZo_ joined perl6
03:55 audreyt something like that yes
03:55 audreyt will pre2, then after some smoke succeses, then release
03:55 gnuvince Cool
03:55 gnuvince You rock :)
03:56 audreyt I try :)
03:56 audreyt I'd rather hack Perl/Haskell, even C, than English , though...
03:56 * audreyt hacks English in ChangeLog some more
03:56 gnuvince I can imagine.
03:56 gnuvince Although the medium is not terribly interesting.
03:57 gnuvince I mean, a ChangeLog?  It's more fun to write a release message
03:58 audreyt that I already did, in a sketch form, on the journal
03:58 gnuvince Yeah, read that.
04:04 TreyHarris audreyt: if you'll be finished during my waketime (+3 hours from nowish) I'll be happy to hack the English if you just outline your thoughts in your commit...
04:07 TreyHarris audreyt: though i just realized you're probably speaking more metaphorically as "hack the english" meaning figuring out your thoughts, the medium being English.  (around here when people say "hack english" they usually mean deal with grammar/spelling/writing style/etc.)
04:08 cmarcelo joined perl6
04:09 audreyt TreyHarris: ok, a sec...
04:09 pasteling "gnuvince" at 24.37.81.6 pasted "failure to compile pugs (with ghc-6.6)" (14 lines, 720B) at http://sial.org/pbot/20498
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04:14 svnbot6 r14380 | lwall++ | [runpugs.html] typo
04:15 cmarcelo maybe interesting for some of you (and maybe old...) GHC hackaton videos => http://hackage.haskell.org​/trac/ghc/wiki/AboutVideos
04:15 lambdabot Title: AboutVideos - GHC - Trac, http://tinyurl.com/w2uvy
04:15 audreyt gnuvince: did you install GHC from source? have you extracted the -extralibs package?
04:16 audreyt this may be worth probing on Makefile.PL I think
04:16 audreyt will think about it
04:23 svnbot6 r14381 | audreyt++ | * Pugs.Prim: New "printf" builtin.
04:23 svnbot6 r14382 | audreyt++ | * Prelude.pm: Avoid using Perl 6 regex for &sprintf.  Instead
04:23 svnbot6 r14382 | audreyt++ |   use rx:P5// for greater compatibility.
04:26 audreyt TreyHarris: please speelcheck, grammarcheck, and sanitycheck  ChangeLog as you see fit
04:26 svnbot6 r14383 | audreyt++ | * ChangeLog: Finished the "Feature Changes" section.
04:26 TreyHarris audreyt: ok :)
04:27 audreyt this is almost twice the size of the 6.2.12 changelog
04:27 SubStack joined perl6
04:27 audreyt same time duration
04:27 audreyt twice as more commits as well
04:29 audreyt lambdabot: how's the Makefile hacking doing?
04:30 TreyHarris that's a smart bot!
04:30 TreyHarris lambdabot does Makefile haking?
04:30 audreyt it's meant to be "lanny"...
04:32 audreyt lunch, bbiab. I'll hack in "mtl" detection
04:32 audreyt other than that I think pre2 is in order
04:32 audreyt and then release
04:32 TimToady I note that runpugs says the server isn't running.  is that because it's currently recompiling?
04:35 audreyt I have no idea...
04:35 audreyt @tell andara: does webterminal server actually spawn children? it doesn't look like it
04:35 lambdabot Consider it noted.
04:36 audreyt TimToady: recompilation produces ./pugs.new
04:36 audreyt the previous ./pugs continues to work
04:36 TimToady k
04:36 audreyt lunch, bbiab for real
04:36 audreyt &
04:43 TreyHarris question: "POD".  Damian used "Pod", which I assumed meant that he was distinguishing Perl 5's POD from Perl 6's Pod.  Was I incorrectly reading semantics into an orthographic error?
04:46 TimToady I think you're seeing a de-emphasis of the acronym.  Maybe it's a new shibboleth.  :)
04:46 TreyHarris TimToady: I pronounce that "sibboleth"
04:47 TimToady I guess I'll have to kill you then...
04:50 TreyHarris ?eval 1
04:50 evalbot_r14375 is now known as evalbot_r14383
04:50 evalbot_r14383 1
04:51 TreyHarris ?eval role A does B { }; role B does A { }; class Foo does A { }; my $obj = Foo.new()
04:51 baest joined perl6
04:51 TreyHarris ?eval 1
04:51 TreyHarris uh-oh.
04:52 evalbot_r14383 (no output)
04:52 evalbot_r14383 1
04:52 TreyHarris ah, ok. i was afraid it went into an infinite loop.
04:52 TreyHarris ?eval role A does B { }; role B does A { }; class Foo does A { }; my $obj = Foo.new(); say "Hi!"
04:52 TimToady probably did
04:53 evalbot_r14383 (no output)
04:54 TreyHarris is that catchable?  should be... i noticed the changelog said, "Circular mixin is no longer allowed" and was wondering if that meant support had been dropped or if it actually caught that
04:54 baest joined perl6
04:55 TimToady maybe it means run-time mixin, not role composition?
04:56 TreyHarris ah, perhaps.  i don't know how to write a test for "doesn't go into an infinite loop" though.  Paging Drs. Turing and Godel, code blue....
04:57 dduncan I have a quick Perl 5 question ... does a weak reference pointing to an object become undefined before or after that object's DESTROY() method is called?
04:57 TimToady haven't the foggiest
04:57 svnbot6 r14384 | audreyt++ | * ChangeLog: clarify self-mixin
04:58 TreyHarris dduncan: try it and see?  i'd think it would have to be "before", but it would be easy to try
04:58 dduncan yes, but I thought it might be faster to ask someone
04:58 dduncan no matter
04:58 TimToady might be wronger too.  :)
04:59 dduncan actually, I think it is a non-issue for my problem anyway
05:01 svnbot6 r14385 | trey++ | A few grammars, speeling, and usificationages fixes, more coming.
05:07 svnbot6 r14386 | trey++ | Standardize on International English spellings, as there was a mixture
05:07 svnbot6 r14386 | trey++ | in the new Changelog and IE spellings seems slightly more common in
05:07 svnbot6 r14386 | trey++ | text so far than American English.
05:07 TreyHarris yes, the past two logs have been tongue-in-cheek....
05:09 TimToady what's this International English crap?
05:10 TreyHarris TimToady: i can switch it all to American English easily enough if you'd like.  There were slightly more "-ise" than "-ize" in the changelog thus far, so I just made the rest match
05:10 TimToady you can spell it however you like, just don't call it international unless all nations agree on it. :)
05:11 TreyHarris non-American English :)
05:14 cmarcelo ?seen nothingmuch
05:14 lambdabot nothingmuch is in #darcs, #haskell and #perl6. I last heard nothingmuch speak 10h 8m 59s ago.
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05:19 cmarcelo nothingmuch: ping
05:19 svnbot6 r14387 | lwall++ | more noun/verb agreement
05:22 svnbot6 r14388 | trey++ | More random ChangeLog fixes
05:23 TreyHarris hmm, re "Typed constraints on autovivification":  why shouldn't this:
05:24 TreyHarris ?eval my $x; $x<moose> = "foo"; $x[5] = 32;
05:24 evalbot_r14383 is now known as evalbot_r14387
05:24 evalbot_r14387 Error: Can't modify constant item: VUndef
05:24 TreyHarris cause $x to turn into a Capture?
05:24 TreyHarris (not thinking that it *should*, just wondering why not)
05:28 TimToady it would be possible to make it work that way.  I suppose the question is how often such a thing would indicate an error rather than an intention.
05:29 TimToady if it's likely to be an error, then perhaps the intention should be more cleary expressed via some declaration before letting it autocapturize
05:29 TreyHarris yes, that's a good answer.  i just wanted to know what to say to the question i'm sure will come up from a student at some point :)
05:29 TimToady it's a good waffle.  I don't know if it's a good answer.  :)
05:30 TreyHarris oh-hoh!
05:30 TreyHarris ?eval my $x; $x<moose> = "foo"; $x[0]
05:30 evalbot_r14387 is now known as evalbot_r14388
05:30 evalbot_r14388 ("moose" => "foo")
05:30 TreyHarris I didn't know you could do that
05:31 audreyt this is "everything autoflatten to 1-seq"
05:31 svnbot6 r14389 | audreyt++ | * Makefile.PL: Detect the case of missing mtl library caused
05:31 svnbot6 r14389 | audreyt++ |   by installing only the core GHC-6.6 libraries, instead of extra-lib.
05:31 audreyt which may or may not be correct
05:31 audreyt this is because $x[0] is counterpart to both perl5's
05:32 audreyt ($x)[0]
05:32 audreyt and
05:32 audreyt ($x)->[0]
05:33 audreyt fwiw, the 1[0] == 1 behaviour agrees with rub
05:33 TimToady seems to that at one point I was considering that the first has to be written [$x][0]
05:33 audreyt namely that 1.to_a there is [1]
05:33 audreyt instead of an error
05:34 audreyt spec is unclear about this
05:37 TimToady I guess the question is whether that would mask a significant number of programming mistakes.
05:37 audreyt the same can be asked about list-context autoflattening...
05:38 TimToady ?eval 1[0][0][0][0][0][0][0][0][0]
05:38 evalbot_r14388 is now known as evalbot_r14389
05:38 evalbot_r14389 \1
05:38 audreyt ?eval my $x = 1; $$$$$$$x
05:38 evalbot_r14389 \1
05:38 cmarcelo left perl6
05:39 TreyHarris ?eval my $x = 42; $$$$$$$$x[0][0][0][0][0]
05:39 evalbot_r14389 \42
05:39 TimToady ?eval my $x; $x<moose> = "foo"; $x<squirrel> = "bar"; $x[0]
05:39 evalbot_r14389 ("moose" => "foo")
05:40 TimToady ?eval my $x; $x<moose> = "foo"; $x<squirrel> = "bar"; $x[1]
05:40 evalbot_r14389 ("squirrel" => "bar")
05:40 audreyt this is hash-flattens-to-list-of-pairs
05:40 TimToady yes, and I wonder how long till people start depending on the hash ordering.  :)
05:41 audreyt it's unordered :)
05:41 audreyt (Judy StrMap got excised)
05:41 audreyt compare:
05:41 audreyt irb(main):014:0> {9 => 2, 3 => 4}.to_a[0]
05:41 audreyt => [3, 4]
05:41 TreyHarris well, it will make algorithms where once you see something you can take anything you've seen before except the one you're looking at now easier... but I don't know how many such algorithms there are... :D
05:41 audreyt pugs> {9 => 2, 3 => 4}[0]
05:41 audreyt ("3", 4)
05:42 TimToady why isn't that a pair?
05:42 audreyt pugs> WHAT {9 => 2, 3 => 4}[0]
05:42 audreyt ::Pair
05:42 audreyt just bad prettyprinting notation.
05:43 TimToady Bad prettyprinter!!  Prettyprinter no cookie!!!
05:43 audreyt oy
05:43 TimToady ah well, we can fix it in Perl 7...
05:44 audreyt I wonder if the concept of Christmas will still be around by then...
05:45 * audreyt tries to not think too much about eschatology and goes back to releng
05:49 svnbot6 r14390 | trey++ | More changelog foo
05:50 audreyt TreyHarris++ # changelog-fu
05:54 Alias_ joined perl6
05:54 svnbot6 r14391 | audreyt++ | * ChangeLog: More -fu.
05:55 Alias_ audreyt: ping?
05:55 Alias_ audreyt, are you ok if I spam various mongers groups here about sponsoring you over here?
05:56 audreyt I'd be honoured
05:56 Alias_ righto
05:56 Alias_ mugwump is spamming NZ too, about getting you an AU and NZ ticket
05:56 audreyt indeed without sponsorship of ticket/accomodation I prolly can't get there myself
05:57 audreyt ooh NZ will rock.
05:57 Alias_ I can offer floorspace in Sydney, with air beds now
05:57 Alias_ So I figure that's covered
05:57 mugwump er, 'spamming' isn't quite right, it will be more of an internal discussion here... as the Wellington.pm leader works here
05:57 Alias_ ah
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06:06 svnbot6 r14392 | trey++ | More changelog fixes; making tenses present rather than past
06:07 TreyHarris okay, i think i'm done hacking at the changelog for now.  i'll take another swag if there are changes before release and i'm awake
06:09 audreyt good moose
06:20 audreyt TreyHarris:
06:21 audreyt similar to Perl 5's `goto &sub`
06:21 audreyt it's not really similar
06:21 audreyt as .call returns
06:21 bsb Alias_, audreyt: I'm sure something can be sorted for melbourne too
06:22 marmic joined perl6
06:23 audreyt cool
06:24 bsb when would this be?  (Strategic Data can probably contribute $ again)
06:25 bsb partial funding at least (talking to AC now)
06:27 svnbot6 r14393 | kudra++ | Placeholder, containing the correction
06:30 TreyHarris is it time for another erlangwanderung?
06:30 svnbot6 r14394 | trey++ | Clarified that .call returns, thanks to audreyt++
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08:11 Alias_ Have we nailed down the semantics for "is" yet in what will be the primary testing lib?
08:11 Alias_ Any change of making it is_deeply by default is there? :/
08:29 dduncan left perl6
08:30 ingy audreyt: ping
08:31 DHGE joined perl6
08:43 svnbot6 r14395 | audreyt++ | * chglog fu!
08:43 svnbot6 r14396 | audreyt++ | * Releng: Metadata adjustments.
08:44 nothingmuch joined perl6
08:52 svnbot6 r14397 | audreyt++ | * Pugs.Val: Squash a warning.
08:52 andara joined perl6
08:52 audreyt ingy: pong
08:53 audreyt (on taxi now; be back in 7mins)
08:53 ingy audreyt: ok
08:54 ingy audreyt: wondered how much you luv .p -> .pm for M::C
08:54 ruoso joined perl6
08:58 audreyt ingy: how does the .p get loaded at first place?
08:59 audreyt *in the first place
09:00 ingy back
09:00 elmex joined perl6
09:00 ingy audreyt: you set a PERL5OPT incantation in the author env
09:00 ingy which puts a coderef n @INC
09:01 ingy simple eh?
09:02 ingy btw, http://ingy.net
09:02 lambdabot Title: Ingy döt Net
09:04 audreyt how do I control .pl and .t?
09:05 audreyt a draggable name car?
09:05 audreyt *card
09:05 ingy it's not fo those
09:05 ingy PERL5OPT=-MModule::Compile::Options=p2pm
09:05 audreyt it all makes sense.
09:05 audreyt I'd like to configure extension though.
09:05 audreyt PERL5OPT=-MModule::Compile::Options=.p,.pm
09:05 ingy sure
09:06 audreyt or some such
09:06 * ingy waves his hands
09:06 audreyt how's libyaml btw?
09:06 audreyt I mean YAML.pm: The Next Generation
09:06 ingy it's coming
09:07 ingy I've been just a little stalled
09:07 ingy but i got out a new M::C
09:07 ingy with use_means_now :)
09:07 audreyt cool!
09:08 ingy so i can write M::C::Template more easily
09:08 ingy which I'll use to write Compile::Spiffy
09:09 audreyt t/compile........NOK 1#   Failed test 'use_means_now
09:09 audreyt # @@ -1,9 +1,7 @@
09:09 audreyt #  package Foo;
09:09 audreyt #  \# start
09:09 audreyt # -\# Do it now use Compile::Now 'c', 'd';
09:09 audreyt #  \# middle
09:09 audreyt #  use Data::Dumper;
09:09 ingy which i always want to use, and won't be afraid to after M::C::Options ;)
09:09 audreyt #  \# earth
09:09 audreyt # -\# Do it now use Compile::Now 'a', 'b';
09:09 audreyt #  \# done
09:09 audreyt #  1;
09:09 audreyt # '
09:09 audreyt #   in t/compile.t at line 8.
09:09 audreyt # Looks like you failed 1 test of 2.
09:09 audreyt I think you nee to get 0.20 out
09:09 ingy !
09:09 ingy ?
09:09 audreyt and then I'll up v6.pm to depend on it (we got burned by heredocs)
09:10 ingy I fixed <<=
09:10 audreyt nod. not sure what caused  the compile.t failure above though
09:11 ingy yeah it passes here
09:11 ingy I think...
09:11 audreyt fails for 3cpan testers
09:11 audreyt search.cpan.org/dist/ already lists FAIL(3)
09:11 audreyt so I'm hardly alone...
09:11 ingy All tests successful.
09:11 ingy Files=8, Tests=25,  2 wallclock secs ( 0.67 cusr +  0.15 csys =  0.82 CPU)
09:11 ingy suck
09:12 audreyt fails even after i install
09:13 ingy I just ran it on another box and it works...
09:14 ingy huh
09:14 audreyt fails on svn checkout too
09:14 ingy unset PERL5LIB makes it fail for me
09:14 audreyt do you have some Compile::Now module that I don't have?
09:14 ingy cool
09:14 * audreyt uploads pre2
09:14 ingy Compile::Now is inline
09:15 ingy in the test
09:15 audreyt nod
09:15 ingy found it
09:15 ingy use XXX
09:15 ingy sad
09:16 audreyt sigh
09:16 ingy I suck
09:17 ingy XXX is so useful though
09:18 ingy maybe I should have M::I put XXX in inc :D
09:19 audreyt sure, as long as it passes tests...
09:19 audreyt you can include XXX in inc/
09:19 audreyt it will get used by tests
09:19 audreyt using the includes() directive
09:20 ingy I was mostly kidding
09:21 ingy M-C-0.20 on cpan
09:21 ingy and svn
09:24 ingy audreyt: I was thinking that .pxc should be used for P6 stuff by convention, and .pm generation could be used mre for P5 stuff. but it's not hard and fast by any means
09:25 ingy there are just some modules where using .pmc is going to piss people off, and using .pm is not.
09:28 ingy audreyt: anyway, update v6 please. I have to sleep.
09:28 audreyt okie. thanks!
09:34 audreyt Please test preflight #2, which will be the real 6.2.13 if there's nothing wrong:
09:34 audreyt http://pugs.blogs.com/pre2​/Perl6-Pugs-6.2.13.tar.gz
09:34 lambdabot http://tinyurl.com/ybzmsg
09:34 audreyt changes topic to: http://pugs.blogs.com/pre2​/Perl6-Pugs-6.2.13.tar.gz | spec.pugscode.org | paste: http://sial.org/pbot/perl6 | pugs.blogs.com
09:57 audreyt changes topic to: Please test: http://pugs.blogs.com/pre2​/Perl6-Pugs-6.2.13.tar.gz | spec.pugscode.org | paste: http://sial.org/pbot/perl6 | pugs.blogs.com
10:01 audreyt @tell fglock Pugs::Emitter::Perl6::Perl5 depends on Pugs::Runtime::Perl6 which is in PCP6 which depens on PEP5 -- circularity!
10:01 lambdabot Consider it noted.
10:04 svnbot6 r14398 | audreyt++ | * Pugs::Compiler::Perl6 - Update Makefile.PL dependency to Module::Compile 0.20.
10:13 svnbot6 r14399 | audreyt++ | * Pugs::Runtime::Perl6AST: Add two "use v5" chunks to prevent miscompilation.
10:22 * Patterner is testing preflight #2 now
10:24 audreyt thanks!
10:31 Patterner getting lots of "Expected: Foo" vs. "Actual: Bar" is normal as long it's "ok", right?
10:33 audreyt that's fine
10:44 Patterner i need a faster computer...
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11:02 audreyt win32 smoke all pass. osx/intel all pass. bbiab...
11:04 andara hi all! Thanks all of you for testing runpugs, especially those who managed to crash it :-D
11:05 andara I'm monitoring now to see what makes it crash, feel free ...
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11:28 weinigZzZ is now known as weinig
11:28 audreyt Patterner: how's it going?
11:31 Patterner still testing
11:32 nipotan is now known as nipotan_DNBK
11:32 nipotan_DNBK is now known as nipotan
11:32 Patterner @ ext/Perl6-Container-Array now
11:32 * audreyt goes writing release notes
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11:38 svnbot6 r14400 | fglock++ | v6/emitter(2) - fixed array slice
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11:48 Patterner All tests successful, 569 subtests skipped. Files=578, Tests=15849.  Gentoo Linux x86_64
11:48 audreyt yay!
11:49 Patterner ./pugs  -V:pugs_revision returns revision 'unknown'  <- normal too?
11:50 Patterner "./pugs  -V:pugs_revision" => "        pugs_revision: 0"
11:50 audreyt that is normal
11:50 audreyt it's only set on repo versions
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11:58 audreyt please sanity check html: http://perlcabal.org/~audreyt/tmp/6_2_13.html
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12:06 masak line 5 column 1 - Warning: <meta> element not empty or not closed
12:06 masak according to tidy
12:06 masak maybe <meta ... />
12:06 masak would be appropriate in xml
12:06 audreyt fixed; reload?
12:07 masak now passes
12:07 masak & # chinese class
12:07 audreyt have fun
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12:16 audreyt anyone with GHC 6.4.1 handy who can give the preflight a try?
12:20 svnbot6 r14401 | fglock++ | v6/emitter(1,2) - fixed Pugs::Runtime::Perl6 circularity
12:20 fglock hi
12:21 audreyt hi
12:21 Limbic_Region audreyt - just a sec, I might have kept it around
12:21 audreyt kzm on #haskell is helping out
12:21 Limbic_Region sorry - got rid of it to avoid confusion
12:22 audreyt that's fine
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12:24 audreyt waiting for kzm's build report on 6.4.1 before flying...
12:26 Limbic_Region who is responsible for vanilla/strawberry perl?
12:26 audreyt xdg I think, and irc.perl.org #win32 in general
12:26 kolibrie audreyt: I have 6.4.2
12:26 Limbic_Region err, I knew xdg but not his real name
12:26 kolibrie do you need that?
12:26 Limbic_Region Dan Golden apparently
12:27 audreyt kolibrie: sure, a 6.4.2 testflight on pre2 will be useful
12:27 audreyt just "make fast" and make sure it produces something
12:27 kolibrie ok
12:32 Psyche^ i'm installing 6.4.1 now, but that could take a few minutes...
12:32 audreyt Psyche^: kzm confirmed it works with 6.4.1
12:32 audreyt on linux
12:33 Psyche^ 64bit?
12:33 audreyt not 64bit. so will help
12:33 audreyt to have 64bit tested.
12:33 Psyche^ using the ghc-bin version, so it is minutes, not hours :)
12:34 audreyt :) and "make fast" will help as well
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12:34 fglock what is the signature for a subroutine without an argument list? sub {...} - I'm wondering if it depends on the context, eg. inside a map()
12:34 audreyt no
12:34 audreyt it's always *@_
12:35 audreyt a bare block however is :($_ is rw)
12:35 fglock does it slurp the entire mapped list?
12:35 fglock ok
12:35 audreyt but implicit params $^a etc changes that
12:36 fglock so sub{...} would slurp the map() list
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12:36 audreyt that depends on how map dispatches
12:36 audreyt currently pugs's &map asks for mandatory arity
12:37 audreyt and use that (min 1) for looping
12:37 audreyt so sub{} still only gets one per run
12:37 kolibrie audreyt: pre2 compiles to something that runs on linux ghc 6.4.2
12:38 fglock right - so the decision is left to map() implementation
12:38 audreyt yup
12:38 audreyt ok. I think we're ready to fly.
12:38 rgs woot
12:38 svnbot6 r14402 | audreyt++ | * This be Pugs, version 6.2.13.
12:38 svnbot6 r14401 | fglock++ | v6/emitter(1,2) - fixed Pugs::Runtime::Perl6 circularity
12:39 audreyt uploading to CPAN...
12:40 Limbic_Region wooooooooot
12:40 Limbic_Region grats audreyt++
12:40 kolibrie good work everyone
12:41 fglock ?eval (sub(*@_){...}).arity   # is this supposed to return Inf or Whatever?
12:41 evalbot_r14389 is now known as evalbot_r14401
12:41 evalbot_r14401 1
12:41 fglock audreyt++
12:42 audreyt :)
12:42 audreyt thanks everyone :)
12:44 fglock meeting &
12:46 audreyt changes topic to: http://pugs.blogs.com/dist​/Perl6-Pugs-6.2.13.tar.gz released! | run.pugscode.org | spec.pugscode.org | paste: http://sial.org/pbot/perl6 | pugs.blogs.com
12:51 Patterner "make fast" for 6.4.1 successful
12:56 audreyt cool!
12:58 Patterner tests are successful so far
13:00 audreyt announced on pugs.blogs.com
13:01 Limbic_Region audreyt - did you want to link to the complete change log?
13:01 audreyt it's http://pugs.blogs.com/pugs/200​6/10/pugs_6213_relea.html#more
13:02 lambdabot http://tinyurl.com/ylb2zb
13:03 Limbic_Region it isn't even Monday
13:03 Limbic_Region thanks
13:03 audreyt it's tuesday 9pm for me :)
13:08 Limbic_Region audreyt - at what point will 6.6 become mandatory (for those use pugs in between releases)
13:09 audreyt Limbic_Region: I don't know :) likely during my stay at Brazil, may be sooner if gaal feels like it
13:09 audreyt so in 3 weeks or so?
13:09 rafl Are there any known issues on Debian with ghc 6.6? I just upgraded from 6.4 and the release doesn't build anymore because of a missing package: mtl.
13:10 audreyt rafl: you need extralibs
13:10 audreyt not sure if it's separately packaged iwth debian or not
13:10 audreyt the linux bindist includes both
13:11 Limbic_Region ok - looking forward to it.  I have really been avoiding perl 6 objects but since my recent foray into Java land - I am looking forward to it
13:11 * audreyt smiles
13:11 audreyt announced on p6[acu]
13:11 audreyt er, I mean p6[aclu]
13:11 rafl audreyt: That's what the error message told me as well, bug I could not find any package containing that.
13:11 audreyt rafl: then talk to Igloo on #haskell / # Ghc
13:11 audreyt #ghc
13:12 * Limbic_Region wanders off
13:12 rafl audreyt: I already did so. He didn't reply so far, so I decided to ask here as well :-)
13:12 audreyt and I may have to sleep soon as well
13:12 audreyt whew :) my meatspace flight is tomorrow...
13:12 audreyt and I havn't packed my, uhm, tarball.
13:13 * audreyt goes packing and sleeping, not neccessary in that order...
13:14 audreyt see y'all tomorrow :) *wave* &
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13:14 audreyt rafl: btw we now depend on libperl-dev, if it's not already a dep
13:14 rafl audreyt: It already is.
13:15 audreyt cool!
13:15 rafl audreyt: Sleep well.
13:17 audreyt thanks :) *thunk*
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14:03 nothingmuch mooo
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14:18 svnbot6 r14403 | andara++ | [runpugs]
14:18 svnbot6 r14403 | andara++ | -now limits generated output (to 256 lines)
14:18 svnbot6 r14403 | andara++ | -runpugs is now a semi-self(re)starter
14:18 svnbot6 r14403 | andara++ | -added some minimal logging
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15:14 Juerd audreyt et al: congrats with the new release!
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15:33 rafl Juerd: >>> sudoers file: syntax error, line 24 <<<
15:47 TimToady Juerd: me too. :)
15:57 amnesiac joined perl6
15:57 Juerd Fixed
15:57 buetow joined perl6
16:04 rafl Juerd: Thanks.
16:05 weinig|bbl is now known as weinig
16:05 rafl Juerd: Do you regularly do updates on feather?
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16:24 Juerd rafl: Semi
16:24 svnbot6 r14404 | lanny++ | [docs/Perl6/Makefile.PL]
16:24 svnbot6 r14404 | lanny++ | * Work around a bug in ExtUtils::MM_Any::manifypod_target()
16:24 svnbot6 r14404 | lanny++ | * Hopefully this will fix nmake-1.5 issues on Win32.
16:24 svnbot6 r14404 | lanny++ | * Need to report this back to ExtUtils.
16:25 Juerd rafl: I do it manually, approx. once per month, I think
16:25 rafl Juerd: OK. FYI, I just updated the available list, upgraded pbuilder and installed cowdancer.
16:26 Juerd Thank you
16:26 Juerd What, er, is a cowdancer?
16:28 rafl Juerd: A weird Copy-on-write directory tree utility. Used by cowbuilder, which is something like pbuilder, but it uses COW directories instead of a huge base tarball which needs to be unpacked every time.
16:29 rafl Juerd: Also, you don't want to upgrade to ghc6 (6.6) in sid. It doesn't include the extralibs stuff yet, so you won't be able to build pugs as it needs mtl (and probably more) from extralibs.
16:31 rafl Oh, there's another ghc installation in /usr/local. Don't mind then..
16:43 svnbot6 r14405 | fglock++ | v6/emitter(2) - "auto-unbox" where possible
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17:28 TimToady Juerd: may I please be a sudoer?
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17:39 Captain_Fourier hey
17:40 Captain_Fourier runpugs seems down
17:40 Limbic_Region TimToady - I have found Juerd to have more timely responses to emails than to channel chatter
17:42 Limbic_Region ?seen andara
17:42 lambdabot I saw andara leaving #perl6 28m 20s ago, and .
17:42 Limbic_Region Captain_Fourier - I believe andara is responsible for runpugs
17:42 Limbic_Region perlbot andara
17:42 Limbic_Region and apparently there isn't a factoid for further info
17:42 TimToady andara's connection has been flapping in the breeze.
17:43 Captain_Fourier well I see there is source code for runpugs
17:43 Captain_Fourier hmm lets see what I can do
17:43 TimToady there is, but of course by the time you set it up to run yourself you can just run pugs in a regular terminal.  :)
17:44 TimToady might be worth having a bevy of runpugses scattered around the world though.
17:44 Captain_Fourier i have run pugs in terminal
17:44 Captain_Fourier but not runpugs!
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18:24 svnbot6 r14406 | fglock++ | v6/emitter(2) - fixed some scalar dereferencing problems
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18:37 andara TimToady: that seems like a good idea, as it's usually the shell ulimits that kill runpugs now. I don't think feather could run more than 50 sessions anyway.
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18:44 svnbot6 r14407 | andara++ | [runpugs]
18:44 svnbot6 r14407 | andara++ | -increased listen() queue
18:44 svnbot6 r14407 | andara++ | -turned a few die's into non-fatal errors
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19:42 svnbot6 r14408 | lanny++ | [docs/Perl6/Makefile.PL]
19:42 svnbot6 r14408 | lanny++ | * Back out previous attempt fix.
19:42 svnbot6 r14408 | lanny++ | * Put in a real fix (tested) for nmake-1.5 issues on Win32.
19:42 svnbot6 r14408 | lanny++ | * nmake version 1.5 should be able to run the Makefile produced now
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19:53 lanny On Win32 during 'make smoke' I get that 'pugs -V' isn't reporting the revision.  Any ideas on how to fix?
19:54 lanny Must run so if you know please @tell me.
19:55 [particle] @tell lanny i think it's a subversion 1.4.0 problem... is that the version you're running?
19:55 lambdabot Consider it noted.
19:56 ingy seen rindolf
19:56 jabbot ingy: rindolf was seen 3 hours 1 minutes 46 seconds ago
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20:13 Captain_Fourier how do  I pull from the repository
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20:33 lanny [particle]: Yes that is the subversion I'm using.  Do you know if svk will fix it?  I have that on my box but didn't want to set up a mirror and the push/pull.
20:33 lambdabot lanny: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
20:33 lanny @messages
20:33 lambdabot [particle] said 38m 3s ago: i think it's a subversion 1.4.0 problem... is that the version you're running?
20:34 clkao lanny: ?
20:34 [particle] i dont use svk, so i don't know
20:34 [particle] clkao: can't get pugs revision info with svn 1.4.0
20:34 lanny I think he was gawking at my fear of push/pull.  :)
20:35 [particle] it could be a problem with the perl code that parses it, i suppose
20:36 lanny Now 'svn info' shows 14408 as expected so I don't know why Pugs can't figure it out
20:40 [particle] ok, the problem is that pugs scans for .svn/entries, and the working copy format changed for 1.4.0
20:40 lanny [particle]++
20:41 [particle] i guess instead it should run C<svn --version> and parse output
20:41 SamB ReactOS had the same problem...
20:41 [particle] i don't have an older svn version to test with, only 1.4.0
20:41 SamB if you do that it should work fine with older versions...
20:42 lanny [particle]: That would be saner
20:42 svnbot6 r14409 | fglock++ | v6/emitter(2) - range elements are Typed
20:43 [particle] well, i don't know if the svn --version output is a different format
20:43 SamB the people on #svn gave me the impression it would be fine
20:43 SamB and that only the internal files you weren't supposed to be reading anyway had changed format
20:43 lanny Well it should probably use 'svn info' to figure out the revision
20:44 SamB well, whatever "svn foo" it is, that is
20:44 [particle] right, duh, info, not --version
20:45 SamB should work fine ;-)
20:45 lanny looks like info is 'key: value' and I doubt that would change soon
20:46 SamB they definately gave me the impression that it had not changed recently and was not going to change anytime soon, either ;-)
20:46 lanny Bah.  Developers.  Can't trust em like that.  They'll bite you ever time!
20:46 * [particle] updates his pugs working copy
20:48 SamB well, another option would be to call the SVN API...
20:48 lanny Too funny.  The code is there in util/version_h.pl to read from 'svn info' but it prefers to read from $base/.svn/entries.
20:48 [particle] samb: does that require any client modulesL
20:48 [particle] ?
20:48 SamB lanny: and it doesn't deal with the unreadability thereof?
20:49 [particle] well, it'll read svk info, but not svn
20:49 SamB you need the SVN library...
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20:49 lanny Working it.  It looks like if it can read .svn/entries that is preferred  'elsif ( -r $svn_entries ) { ...'
20:49 SamB which the "svn" command needs too
20:49 SamB it should also check if it can *parse* that
20:49 lanny oh.  Good catch, [particle].  I'm starting to see what I want instead of what is there.
20:50 SamB heh
20:50 [particle] cruft--
20:51 [particle] lanny++
21:12 svnbot6 r14410 | lanny++ | * util/version_h.pl - prefer `svn info` to .svn/entries (which is broke for svn 1.4)
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21:15 lanny karma audreyt
21:15 jabbot lanny: audreyt has karma of 2550
21:15 lanny karma lanny
21:15 jabbot lanny: lanny has karma of 92
21:16 lanny Oh.  Hmm.  That's not nearly as funny as I thought it was gonna be.  I was planning on making a joke about being a centi-audreyt.
21:17 lanny oh, good.  Still works.  :)  3.6 centi-audreyt
21:19 Patterner Hat.Hat.Hat.
21:19 lanny Must run.  Thanks again, [particle], for the version troubleshooting.
21:19 [particle] np
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21:36 * nothingmuch croaks
21:36 nothingmuch good mangos as big as house cats are dangerous things
21:36 Patterner Killer Mangos From Outer Space?
21:37 nothingmuch something like that
21:37 nothingmuch They Came From The Supermarket
21:37 nothingmuch So I Married a Fruit
21:38 Juerd TimToady: Yes, you may
21:38 nothingmuch @moosages
21:38 lambdabot Limbic_Region said 1d 2h 34m 7s ago: no, my memory has to be added in pairs but I really do appreciate it
21:38 nothingmuch lambdabot:++
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21:38 Juerd TimToady: You now have sudo access. Please use debian packages where possible, and keep me informed of what you do.
21:39 Juerd Limbic_Region: My response, chat versus mail, depends heavily on when and where I read things. Hard to predict :)
21:41 TimToady thanks!  just wanted to fix a typo this time.
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21:42 Juerd Maybe next time you need it for something more intrusive. If so, I'd like to know :)
21:59 Juerd TimToady: Oh, sorry, put you in the file as timtoady, not larry A:)
21:59 Juerd s/A//
21:59 Juerd TimToady: Try again
21:59 * Juerd shouldn't be using root shells while almost falling asleep
22:02 * Juerd yawns again.
22:02 Juerd Good night
22:07 TimToady night, and thanks.
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23:00 TimToady is pugs known not to compile under cygwin?
23:02 TimToady (specifically, using cygwin perl5)
23:08 TimToady when configuring I get: runcompiler.exe: /home/lwall/pugs/third-part​y/installed/packages.conf: openFile: does not exist (No such file or directory)
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23:26 cognominal joined perl6
23:28 mg hi all. with the release of 6.12.13, i thought i might try to help out a bit (a very little bit). i have fixed some broken smartlinks and updated some from the /regex/ style.
23:29 mg should i submit a patch? or can i get a svn commit bit?
23:32 TimToady you may have an svn commit bit if you /msg your email addr to me (or put it in disguised form here so the spammers don't get it)
23:33 Alias_ So YAPC::AU now has Damian, Randal, cog and (hopefully) audreyt
23:33 Alias_ All we need now is a language author and we'll have the complete set
23:33 * Alias_ stares at TimeToady
23:33 Alias_ s/Time/Tim/
23:34 weinig is now known as weinig|food
23:38 TimToady mg: have an email addr?
23:43 mg mgrimes at cpan org
23:44 TimToady an invite is on its way.
23:44 mg thanks
23:44 TimToady after you get it, it is customary to add yourself to AUTHORS as your first checkin.  Anything after that is up to you.  :P)
23:45 TimToady :) rather
23:45 mdiep joined perl6
23:45 TimToady :P) looks like a bugger hanging from my nose...
23:46 TimToady welcome aboard, and have fun!
23:46 mg anything to get p6 here soon!
23:47 TimToady anything?
23:49 mg :-)   well... anything that fits my limited skills and free time...
23:49 Alias_ What are you guys managing the repository with these days?
23:49 TimToady as in openfoundry kind of "what"?
23:49 TimToady or as in svn kind of "what"?
23:50 TimToady and some of us are girls.
23:50 Alias_ I was using the royal "you guys"
23:50 Alias_ But yes, I was refering to openfoundry
23:54 TimToady you are, in fact, an admin on the project.  :)
23:55 avar TimToady: Whatever the final "official" Perl 6 parser will be please make it as open a project as pugs:)
23:55 Alias_ TimToady, apparently Audrey was even more generous handing out the bits in the early days of the project :)
23:56 avar Alias_: I have a commit bit because I joined the channel one day and said hi or something:)
23:56 TimToady there is no "official" parser, only the official test suite.  the first parser that passes the test suite is likely to come from the pugs project.
23:57 Alias_ avar: I have an admin bit because I donated some Perl 5 modules for conversion to Perl 6 some times back in the dark mist of the first few months
23:57 Alias_ (apparently)
23:57 TimToady you're an admin because we've met you and Know Who You Are in case you misbehave...
23:58 Alias_ true :)
23:58 Alias_ TimToady, whatever this thing is that gets released for the current Christmas, are you planning on actually slapping some sort of "Perl 6 alpha" or "Perl 6 developer preview" on it?
23:58 Alias_ (please add all the usual caveats to that question
23:58 Alias_ (
23:58 Alias_ )
23:59 TimToady you can already say "use v6-alpha;" in your P5 code.  :)

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