Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #perl6, 2006-10-18

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Time Nick Message
00:00 Alias_ Well, it would be nice from a PR point of view to have it formalised and wrapped up in a candy-shell installer (windows) or apt-get'able (etc)
00:00 Alias_ And might actually finally mean I don't have to listen to the Duke Nukem jokes any more :)
00:01 avar ascii art of the duke in the installer?:)
00:01 Alias_ That would be hilarious :)
00:01 [particle] i think duke nukem is under misc/ somewhere in the repo... ;)
00:01 Alias_ A camel with a shotgun and strippers
00:01 avar heh
00:02 TimToady I think when people start playing with 6.2.13 they'll realize it's really getting rather solid already.
00:02 * Alias_ nods
00:02 Alias_ I was just thinking in more symbolic terms
00:03 TimToady and I really don't mind the anonymonks proving themselves to be idiots in front of everyone.  well, okay, I mind a little...
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00:07 TreyHarris TimToady: which anonymonks are you referring to?  not names, just what comprehension results in the subset of anonymonks to which you refer? :)
00:12 TimToady it seems a little odd to use the word "comprehension" on that particular subset
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00:17 TimToady Parents' Back To School Night &
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01:14 svnbot6 r14411 | mgrimes++ | Fixed a number of old /regex/ style smartlinks and broken smartlinks.
01:41 svnbot6 r14412 | fglock++ | v6/emitter(2)
01:41 svnbot6 r14412 | fglock++ | - added README
01:41 svnbot6 r14412 | fglock++ | - fixed Value->Scalar conversion
01:41 svnbot6 r14412 | fglock++ | - updated HACKING, TODO
01:41 svnbot6 r14412 | fglock++ | - some code cleanup
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02:16 dduncan fyi, I just smoked the final release of Pugs 6.2.13; http://m19s28.vlinux.de/iblech/stuff/pugs-​smokes/pugs-smoke-6.2.13-r0-darwin-normal-​-1161137352-5402--17954-17954-0-4638-747-0​--f074b12a389a4acf75fbc278e10802cd.html
02:16 lambdabot Title: TAP Matrix - Wed Oct 18 01:16:18 2006 GMT, http://tinyurl.com/yec5dj
02:16 dduncan the results are the same as for pre1, except that it was faster this time
02:17 dduncan specifically, it took 90 minutes today, vs 103 minutes for pre1 the other day, and around 135 minutes a couple months ago when I last did smokes of Pugs
02:17 dduncan I attribute the 13 minute difference to that I was doing some other resource-intensive activities on the computer (watching videos, etc), when smoking pre1, but basically nothing was happening today
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02:19 dduncan my system in both cases is Mac OS X 10.4.8, Perl 5.8.7, GHC 6.6.0, PowerPC G4 dual-1Ghz CPU, 1.25GB of RAM
02:19 dduncan and the smoke was setup to use 4 threads
02:19 dduncan so about 2 threads per CPU
02:20 dduncan that is, concurrency=4
02:20 dduncan that is all
02:20 dduncan so 135 mins down to 90 mins is certainly a significant speedup
02:21 dduncan what changed since the 135 and the 90 is mainly that GHC was updated from 6.4.1 to 6.6.0, and Pugs itself had large updates ... no other system changes of great significance to smokes
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02:21 dduncan that is all
02:22 dduncan all settings re the pugs make system were the default
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02:23 dduncan s/since/between/
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02:35 svnbot6 r14413 | Darren_Duncan++ | ChangeLog : added template for upcoming release 6.28.0, based on the one for 6.2.13 ... tweaks may be needed
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02:56 TreyHarris [particle] is showing off smartlinks at the seattle perl user group meeting as we speak :)  i use them every day and i forgot how very very cool they are.
03:03 audreyt future is here just not evenly distributed
03:07 diotalevi_ smartlinks? Boo. I wish I was at SPUG.
03:11 weinig is now known as weinig|sleep
03:23 cognominal better distributed on pugs than parrot? :)
03:23 audreyt maybe different timelines..
03:24 cognominal I am working on the node^Wpugscapture pmc btw
03:25 cognominal when done I will update PGE to use it
03:26 cognominal I need to support shift, unshift, iterators, freeze. Still a lof of things missing
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03:27 audreyt *nod* cool
03:27 cognominal worked on the french Perl 6 wikipedia entry too
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03:36 root4o hi, can u point me to gather() , take() explanation..or tell in several words their purpose
03:36 audreyt root4o: it's for the pattern of
03:36 audreyt my @result; while ... { ... for ... { ... push @result if ... } }  return @result
03:36 audreyt now you write instead:
03:37 audreyt gather { while ... { ... for ... { take $x if ... } } }
03:37 audreyt see also http://search.cpan.org/dist/Perl6-Gather/Gather.pm
03:37 lambdabot Title: Perl6::Gather - Implements the Perl 6 'gather/take' control structure in Perl 5  ..., http://tinyurl.com/vxftl
03:37 root4o 10x
03:38 Alias_ It might just be me, but that seems like it has fairly limited gain
03:39 Alias_ Although I can see how it would simplify certain expressions
03:39 audreyt Alias_: you can't refactor with push
03:40 audreyt since it's depending on a lexical
03:40 audreyt of course you can
03:40 Alias_ I get that
03:40 audreyt our @result; sub gatherer { local @result; ...  taker() } sub taker { push @result }
03:40 Alias_ It's just a smart grep
03:40 audreyt but it's considered badstyle
03:40 audreyt anyway it's handy :)
03:41 * Alias_ frets about keyword explosions stealing all the useful terms
03:41 Alias_ say is evil
03:41 Alias_ It has nothing whatsoever to do with saying anything
03:42 Alias_ But then hey, I'm sure it's cleanly worked around in P6
03:42 audreyt it actually hooks into a text to speech engine
03:42 audreyt but we're not revealing that yet
03:42 audreyt ;)
03:42 Alias_ heh
03:42 audreyt (nb: "print" has nothing to do with printing for a very long time now; we're not using teletypes)
03:43 cognominal I suggested to rgs to add cowsay to 5.10 but he declined
03:43 Alias_ It prints pixels on a canvas
03:43 Alias_ But yes, I get your point
03:43 Alias_ It's more like ->send
03:44 root4o many times in Perl5 i was tring/doing something like this (cant remember if it works now)
03:44 root4o action1, action2 if condition;
03:44 root4o could in some way do this shortcut in perl6
03:44 root4o i mean two actions
03:44 root4o and if at the end
03:45 Alias_ if at the end for complex cases of if is bad style anyway
03:45 audreyt root4o: that is valid p5
03:45 root4o yeah, but it was for simple stuff
03:45 Alias_ Multiple actions?
03:45 Alias_ not simple
03:45 root4o no two simple actions
03:45 eviltwin_b it'll work in perl5 as long as you'r very careful about lists
03:45 audreyt Alias_: comma as stmt separator
03:46 audreyt eviltwin_b: yup
03:46 root4o print 'hi', $x = 12 if $cond;
03:46 eviltwin_b that'd be a prime example of "as long as you're very careful" :)
03:46 eviltwin_b (rather of the opposite...)
03:46 audreyt in p6 there's something like
03:46 audreyt {say 1; say 2}() if 3
03:46 audreyt which is rather unambiguous to my eyes
03:47 eviltwin_b hm, can't you use a block that way (minus the parens) in perl5?
03:47 eviltwin_b hm, no, onlyas "do {...}"
03:48 root4o one other thing that bugged me , not a big deal ... is that I had to do
03:48 root4o my $x;
03:48 root4o $x = 55 if $cond;
03:48 root4o instead of just :
03:48 audreyt ?eval my $x = 55 if $cond;
03:48 evalbot_r14401 is now known as evalbot_r14413
03:48 evalbot_r14413 Error: Undeclared variable: "$cond"
03:48 audreyt ?eval my $x = 55 if 1; $x
03:48 evalbot_r14413 \55
03:48 audreyt there you go.
03:48 root4o my $x = 55 if $cond;
03:48 audreyt yeah. fixed
03:49 root4o :)
03:49 audreyt (my $x) can appear anytime $x can
03:49 audreyt which is wonderful :)
03:49 audreyt my $x[10] = 2;
03:49 audreyt et
03:49 audreyt etc
03:49 audreyt declarators are finally real expressions
03:54 root4o I use gentoo.... of cource when I install pugs it doesn't include tests and examples...I was wondering, I can write test with installed pugs...i.e.
03:54 root4o it doesnt need additional stuff..
03:55 root4o and I do not need to correct some PATH's?
03:55 audreyt you can simply write tests and run them with installed pugs
03:55 audreyt but "svn co http://svn.openfoundry.org/pugs/" will get you the test corpus in t/
03:55 root4o ok...10x, will try
03:55 lambdabot Title: Revision 14413: /
03:56 audreyt you had a commit bit yet?
03:56 root4o no
03:56 audreyt ok. what's your email addr?
03:56 root4o iraptor_at_gmail
03:57 audreyt welcome aboard. try editing AUTHORS to add your name and "svn ci" it back to test the commit
03:57 root4o where can find info in which part tests are missing
03:57 audreyt http//spec.pugscode.org/
03:57 audreyt click into specs and find noncovered parts
03:57 audreyt _so_ happy that question can be answered straightforwardly
03:57 audreyt smartlinks++
03:59 audreyt root4o: check your mail for login
03:59 audreyt I need to get lunch and pack; bbiab. have fun :)
03:59 Alias_ pack?
03:59 audreyt pack my stuff for plane tonight to portland
04:02 root4o cant load http//spec.pugscode.org/ .... is it something with my connection or it is down
04:03 Alias_ You missed the colon?
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04:04 root4o no havent...just when wrote in the irc
04:04 root4o sorry
04:06 root4o hmm it seems my connection ...
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04:06 root4o test
04:07 christopher root4o: any SYN link on http://smoke.pugscode.org also will give you the synopses
04:08 root4o 10x
04:09 lambdabot Title: Pugs Smoke Reports
04:10 root4o yes I'm getting this
04:20 root4o how can I get supported methods for a class and/or attributes i.e.
04:20 root4o Int.get_all_methods()
04:20 root4o or 55.get_all_methods()
04:20 root4o is there such beast
04:33 audreyt root4o: $obj.^methods is canonical
04:33 audreyt it's not yet implemented, sorry
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04:35 root4o bad ;)
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04:38 audreyt working on that though :) see http://search.cpan.org/dist/Moose/ for perl5 land prototype
04:38 lambdabot Title: Stevan Little / Moose - search.cpan.org
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04:47 root4o yeah, i've tried it .. very cool
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06:18 flw hi audrey
06:23 audreyt flw: greetings
06:25 flw Can you read Chinese on your workstation?
06:25 audreyt probably yes
06:25 audreyt try typing some chinese?
06:26 audreyt (or should we go over to #perlchina?)
06:26 flw ok, see you in #perlchina
06:29 flw to audreyt: 我记得您曾经讲过,有一个 Module 可以把 Perl 源程序变成 TAB 和空格组成的一片空白,它的名字叫什么?
06:31 Alias__ (funny when you can't render it)
06:31 audreyt it's more mysterious that way
06:31 Alias__ (square) (square) (square) (square) (square) (square) (square) (square) Module (square) (square) (square) (square) Perl...
06:32 Alias__ :)
06:32 audreyt to translate: which module was that you mentioned that turns Perl programs to tabs and spaces?
06:32 audreyt see, totally not mysterious then
06:33 Alias__ Well of course, but it has a nice parallel to listening to people talk in foreign languages
06:33 flw Alias__, I'm sorry, my english is very poor.
06:33 Alias__ Except for the words taken from langauges that stick out, they might as well be saying (square) (square) (square) (square) Module (square) (square) (square) (square) etc
06:33 Alias__ flw: Don't apologise
06:34 Alias__ My English is very poor, and I speak it as a first language :)
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07:03 Eidolos flw: To answer your question, Acme::Bleach. :)
07:04 flw_ Eidolos: Thank you!
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08:32 dduncan fyi, just smoked r14413 ... same results as with the last release ... http://m19s28.vlinux.de/iblech/stuff/pugs-s​mokes/pugs-smoke-6.2.13-r14413-darwin-norma​l--1161160105-6413--17954-17954-0-4638-747-​0--63c47bdcc4b1aab5ce0a4a550243add0.html
08:32 lambdabot Title: TAP Matrix - Wed Oct 18 08:22:43 2006 GMT, http://tinyurl.com/wpdz8
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08:34 dduncan I will probably not do any more smokes until some large change has been checked in, such as to enable the new metamodel, or to remove the design cludges that GHC 4.4.1 requires but 6.6.0 doesn't
08:35 audreyt right. that seems prudent
08:36 dduncan incidentally, if it were me, I would make removing 4.4.1 support the first major change
08:36 dduncan you were probably itching to remove those cludges, weren't you?
08:36 wolverian 6.4.1, you mean :)
08:36 dduncan yes, that
08:36 audreyt well yes. in fact I am
08:36 audreyt but rafl is still solving 6.6 bindist on debian
08:37 audreyt and freebsd ports havn't been updated yet
08:37 audreyt those two represent a fairly major portion of pugs devbase
08:37 audreyt so I'd hold for another week or two
08:37 dduncan sounds like a plan
08:37 audreyt 1..1
08:37 wolverian ubuntu 6.10 is slated to have 6.4.2, too
08:39 clkao audreyt: hey you know all this us flight gel thing right? i assume you have loads. i throw away some shampoo in boston. so just fyi and fly safe. zzz time.
08:41 dduncan audreyt, does your busy world tour by chance include the "Open Source Meets Business" conference in Germany this January; http://www.heise.de/verans​taltungen/2007/ho_osb/en/ ?
08:41 lambdabot http://tinyurl.com/yd2a7v
08:41 dduncan if so, you may want to check out the plat_forms study going on there
08:41 dduncan fyi, http://www.plat-forms.org/
08:41 lambdabot Title: Home
08:41 dduncan I won't be there, but it might be interesting for you, perhaps
08:42 audreyt dduncan: if someone flys me there, maybe, but prolly not
08:42 dduncan what would it cost to fly there for you?
08:44 audreyt usd$1k or a bit more
08:44 dduncan I see
08:45 Alias__ I've changed my mind about gather/take
08:45 Alias__ Mostly because I wish I had it right now
08:46 dduncan on a separate matter, I notice that the smartlinked Synopsis16 going with my last smoke has POD errors in it; see the end of: http://m19s28.vlinux.de/iblech/stuff/pugs-smok​es/pugs-smoke-6.2.13-r14413-darwin-normal--116​1160105-6413--17954-17954-0-4638-747-0--63c47b​dcc4b1aab5ce0a4a550243add0-synopses/S16.html
08:46 lambdabot Title: S16, http://tinyurl.com/y4bpg7
08:47 dduncan not sure if this is the original S16 or the auto-edited one
08:48 * dduncan back in the future
08:49 audreyt Alias__: good :) Perl6::Gather on CPAN is the answer :)
08:50 Alias__ I don't like it that much
08:50 Alias__ :)
08:50 Alias__ I may as well be using Acme:: modules in production
08:50 * Alias__ &
08:50 audreyt Perl6:: is the new Acme
08:50 audreyt actually it's the old Acme
08:50 Patterner it's Acme's New Clothes
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09:30 theorbtwo Acme: The next generation.  These are the voyages of the crazy channel #perl6, on it's continuation mission, to seek out new features and new circular dependencies.
09:31 TreyHarris we only have one circular dependency: on circular dependencies
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12:31 Limbic_Region salutations all
12:32 fglock Limbic_Region: hi
12:36 audreyt greetings
12:36 * Limbic_Region thought you were on a plane audreyt
12:37 audreyt the one good thing about prioritypass lounges is that you don't have to hunt for electricity...
12:37 audreyt no, that was checkin; the actual take off is 2hr in the future
12:37 * audreyt meanwhie repairs pugscc
12:43 Limbic_Region do you have an itinerary.txt of where you will be and what you will be doing for the next month?
12:44 audreyt Oct18 arrive at Portland; Oct20 speak at Intel; Oct23 speak at OOPSLA; Oct 24~26 Jifty Hackathon; Oct27 speak at Amazon; Oct29 arrive at Sao Paulo
12:45 audreyt Oct30~Nov2 Pugs/v6 hackathon
12:45 audreyt Nov3 speak at YAPC::SA
12:46 audreyt Nov6~10 at Rio; Nov13 back to .tw
12:46 fglock audreyt: our sessions on YAPC::SA are contiguous - this gives us 3h to talk, how about planning something together
12:46 audreyt end of itinerary
12:46 audreyt fglock: sure, we can figure something out when we meet :)
12:47 fglock with TimToady too - it would be nice
12:47 audreyt maybe we'll just put a text-to-speech device to #perl6
12:47 audreyt and then we type ahead into our laptops
12:48 audreyt maybe too crazy
12:49 * audreyt hacks her slides some more -- now at "Dual Core" section with Pugs.Eval at one side and Pugs::Runtime at another
12:49 fglock we could have somebody typing what we are talking, and put #perl6 on the projector :)
12:52 audreyt yeah :)
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12:57 svnbot6 r14414 | audreyt++ | * Pugs.Compile.Pugs: Repair -CPugs, and by extension pugscc
12:58 * audreyt ponders, now that libpugs contains libperl, whether to also link in the PAR loader
12:58 audreyt it's tiny (<100k)
12:59 audreyt and gains us multiversioning automagically
13:00 audreyt need to think about it some more.
13:02 fglock audreyt: module versioning for ext/ ?
13:02 svnbot6 r14415 | audreyt++ | * pugscc: s/autrijus/audreyt/
13:03 nothingmuch @seen cmarcelo
13:03 lambdabot I saw cmarcelo leaving #perl6 1d 7h 24m 59s ago, and .
13:04 audreyt fglock: the ability to install multiple versions of, say ,CGI.pm
13:04 audreyt and use them in the same program distinguished by long names
13:05 audreyt and use precompiled binary modules
13:05 audreyt etc, etc. see tsee's directory on CPAN, including PAR::Repository, PAR::Dist, etc
13:06 * nothingmuch starts the shittiest
13:06 nothingmuch MO refactoring of all
13:06 nothingmuch making methods have a ->compile method
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13:06 nothingmuch cmarcelo: ah, i was just hunting for you
13:09 cmarcelo nothingmuch: pong! :) didn't code much, but finished reading paper about software integration that gaal++ recommended to get some (more) ideas on how translate things..
13:09 nothingmuch cool
13:09 * nothingmuch is going to do the last yucky refactoring to MO
13:09 Psyche^ is now known as Patterner
13:11 cmarcelo the plugin refac?
13:11 nothingmuch not yet
13:11 nothingmuch that's easier from an engineering perspective
13:11 nothingmuch giving methods a ->compile method
13:11 nothingmuch and clearing up the attachment api
13:17 nothingmuch ingy: ping
13:18 fglock nothingmuch: will you create an intermediate language?
13:18 nothingmuch no
13:18 nothingmuch MO is orthogonal to the language
13:19 audreyt modularity++
13:19 nothingmuch i will create MO::Emit::Perl5 soon
13:19 nothingmuch which should compile an "idealized" MO class into regular perl 5 packages
13:19 nothingmuch using hacks like overriding can and wrapping to emulate private methods, etc
13:19 audreyt which in Pugs's dual core vision
13:20 nothingmuch precisely ;-)
13:20 audreyt will then allow a single declaration to generate embedding native to both runtimes
13:20 audreyt so we don't have to play AUTOLOAD games anymore
13:20 nothingmuch huzzah
13:20 audreyt huzzah indeed!
13:20 nothingmuch we're so awesome
13:20 nothingmuch group hug everyone
13:20 fglock :)
13:20 * audreyt hugs nothingmuch
13:21 * nothingmuch hugs audreyt
13:21 nothingmuch cmarcelo: ?
13:21 nothingmuch fglock: ?
13:21 nothingmuch beware of clkao though, i found out some facts about him
13:21 * fglock hugs all
13:21 * cmarcelo hugs everyone!
13:21 nothingmuch chuck norris type facts, that is
13:22 * audreyt hugs each(@perl6)
13:22 nothingmuch @everyone».hug();
13:22 lambdabot Unknown command, try @list
13:22 * [particle] is always hugging himself
13:22 fglock nothingmuch: I'm abstracting the base perl5 types in Pugs::Emitter::P6::P5(2)
13:22 * stevan wonders what he has stumbled into
13:22 nothingmuch base types == unboxed?
13:23 * audreyt hugs stevan whilst he's still wondering
13:23 * stevan :)
13:24 stevan nothingmuch: robkinyon agreed to give us Sub::Compose
13:24 nothingmuch MUAHAHAHAA
13:25 stevan one more thing to slow down Moose's compile time :)
13:25 fglock nothingmuch: compile-time boxing as-needed, FETCH/STORE with typing, and a few other things
13:25 nothingmuch fglock: sounds useful
13:25 stevan fglock: yes, very useful
13:25 fglock so the emitter don't have to worry about basic optimizations
13:25 * [particle] presented moose at seattle.pm last night
13:26 stevan [particle]: cool, how did it go?
13:26 [particle] pretty well.
13:26 [particle] i used my smartlink impl as an example
13:27 cmarcelo [particle]: slides? :)
13:27 [particle] agentzh: ping
13:27 [particle] cmarcelo: no slides, just code
13:28 fglock nothingmuch: these things are inlined, so you don't have the subroutine call overhead, or lexical scope problems
13:28 nothingmuch *nod*
13:28 [particle] http://svn.perl.org/parrot/trunk/lib/SmartLink.pm
13:28 lambdabot http://tinyurl.com/y8uokd
13:28 [particle] and http://svn.perl.org/parrot/​trunk/t/tools/smartlinks.t
13:28 lambdabot http://tinyurl.com/y7jw9s
13:29 [particle] and of course, the smoke output from pugs
13:29 audreyt at some point those technologies could go back to CPA...
13:29 audreyt *CPAN
13:30 fglock stevan: I think you could use it in Moose, through Module::Compile
13:30 audreyt I mean, as standalone dists, such as http://search.cpan.org/dist/Test-Chimps/ and http://search.cpan.org/dist/Task-Smoke/
13:30 lambdabot Title: Zev Benjamin / Test-Chimps - search.cpan.org
13:31 stevan fglock: yes, this is what I am thinking
13:31 stevan Moose::Autobox, while fun, has a *huge* performance penalty, even more so than regular Moose :)
13:32 [particle] moose are slow creatures
13:33 stevan actually once they get moving,.. they are pretty fast,.. long legs and all
13:33 [particle] yeah, then try stopping them...
13:34 stevan http://www.fugly.com/media/IMAGES/Crazy/moose1.jpg
13:34 audreyt Moose.pm: SIGINT ignored
13:34 stevan yup
13:34 fglock stevan: very simple example of compile-time preprocessing: http://svn.openfoundry.org/pugs/perl5/Pugs-Emi​tter-Perl6-Perl5-2/t/00-compile-time/01-bool.t
13:34 lambdabot http://tinyurl.com/ym8uzh
13:34 lambdabot http://tinyurl.com/yapk44
13:34 audreyt Moose.pm: SIGSTOP ignored (etc)
13:34 stevan audreyt: ;)
13:35 stevan Reaction is currently the largest Moose code base,.. and mst says startuptime is still managable
13:38 idiotmax joined perl6
13:38 nothingmuch i so love darcs amend record
13:38 nothingmuch nasty commits are a thing of the past
13:38 fglock I've been thinking about the emitter model PCR uses - maybe it could be used for emitting optimized v6.pm code - try several emitters, and use the faster one that succeeds
13:38 nothingmuch i haven't had a commit message titled "oops" in a long while
13:38 * audreyt imagines a GA-based emitter
13:38 nothingmuch fglock: talk to stevan about the Sub::Comose future plans
13:38 nothingmuch GA?
13:39 audreyt genetic algorithm aka spamassassin
13:39 nothingmuch oi oi oi oi oi oi
13:39 audreyt "train your emitter"
13:39 nothingmuch that's a nice dream
13:39 fglock audreyt: yes, like that
13:39 nothingmuch but debugging these things.... oh my
13:39 audreyt nothingmuch: not anymore crazy than your runtime profiling feedback idea
13:39 Khisanth hmm easier to train than spam :)
13:39 audreyt that is, both are terminally crazy
13:39 nothingmuch heh
13:39 audreyt which is the norm around here...
13:39 stevan what happens when you emitter evolves to become smarter than you?
13:40 ruoso joined perl6
13:40 nothingmuch stevan: skynet
13:40 nothingmuch audreyt: touche
13:40 nothingmuch ;-)
13:40 audreyt then you port yourself to it...
13:40 fglock Sub::Comose?
13:40 nothingmuch Compose
13:40 nothingmuch Sub::Compost;
13:40 nothingmuch =)
13:40 * stevan is suddenly replaced by v6 code
13:41 audreyt Stevan The Bootstrapped
13:41 stevan I wonder what that would smell like ... eaww
13:42 audreyt interesting. Sub::Compose is called "combine" in pugs codebase...
13:42 * fglock looking up Sub::Compose in CPAN
13:42 nothingmuch audreyt: yesterday we discussed refactoring it
13:42 nothingmuch i want it to be monad inspired
13:42 stevan fglock: the one on CPAN is just a toy/experiment
13:42 stevan it is too ambitious to be useful
13:42 nothingmuch that is, using conjoin is a port of the Maybe monad, etc
13:42 nothingmuch so that you can write highlevel compositions
13:42 nothingmuch and then inline them
13:42 nothingmuch == very good for type checking
13:42 audreyt nothingmuch: scala's monad comprehension is a good model for that
13:43 stevan and restrict the types of subs we accept as well
13:43 diotalevi_ joined perl6
13:43 nothingmuch where the type subs are very small and hence the overhead is big (calling 10 subs for a param check is =()
13:43 nothingmuch audreyt 1>stevan
13:43 audreyt what's this infix 1> operator?
13:43 stevan scala has monads?
13:43 nothingmuch it's a shell redirect
13:43 stevan audreyt: I think he is pipiing your STDOUT to me :)
13:43 audreyt stevan: yes, with sugar for comprehension as well
13:44 nothingmuch i was wondering if i should redirect stderrr too
13:44 stevan audreyt: cool
13:44 audreyt it's the thing Haskell 98 took away from 1.3 and I'm trying to restore it
13:44 stevan nothingmuch: nah,.. I have enough issues of my own :)
13:44 nothingmuch anymoose
13:44 nothingmuch back to my refactor... nearly done!
13:44 nothingmuch (attr::compiled::Attached is gone)
13:44 dakkar joined perl6
13:44 nothingmuch (compiled == attached per definition now)
13:44 stevan wow,.. audreyt can sleep and code at the same time,.. and nothingmuch can babble and code at the same time
13:45 * nothingmuch 's idle loop is babbling
13:45 fglock stevan: Set::Infinite, DateTime::Set::*, DateTime::Event::* all use composition
13:45 * audreyt 's idle loop is coding...
13:46 stevan audreyt idle? no? I dont believe it :P
13:46 fglock stevan: so you have a sub body with perl5 code, and known input & output types?
13:47 audreyt stevan: in any case, scala's monad comprehension is just their list comprehension
13:47 audreyt see http://scala.epfl.ch/examples​/files/simpleInterpreter.html for a demo
13:47 lambdabot Title: sources/examples/files/simpleInterpreter.scala, http://tinyurl.com/zfdh8
13:47 audreyt the doc for that is http://scala.epfl.ch/intro/comprehensions.html
13:47 lambdabot Title: The Scala Programming Language: Sequence Comprehensions, http://tinyurl.com/zcv6o
13:47 audreyt "Every datatype that supports the operations filter, map, and flatMap (with the proper types) can be used in sequence comprehensions."
13:48 cmarcelo fglock: re PCP: just installing PCP and PCR from Pugs tree and the other deps from CPAN is enough to start hacking? or there are more modules that *must* be from pugs tree? (this answer is a good candidate to be "shifted" in PCP/HACKING file..)
13:48 fglock stevan: this looks a bit like Pugs::Emitter::Perl6::Perl5-2
13:48 stevan audreyt: nice :)
13:48 stevan fglock: yes, I think it is probably along the same lines
13:49 fglock cmarcelo: installing from CPAN is a good start, then update from Pugs tree
13:49 stevan fglock: but keep in mind that we are gutting the current CPAN release and re-writing it to be more "production" useful
13:49 dakrone joined perl6
13:50 stevan audreyt: hmm, this reminds me a little of the LISP loop macro
13:50 stevan the compresions that is
13:50 fglock stevan: PEPP2 has several implementations for each "sub", depending on want()
13:51 stevan fglock: Sub::COmpose will be much simpler than that
13:51 fglock stevan: so it can choose the best implementation
13:51 cmarcelo audreyt: why comprehension syntax sugar was took away from Hs? it just works for lists then? I thought that was just more sugar over do-notation...
13:51 audreyt cmarcelo: it was. then they had no idea how to generate good enough warnings for the simple case (list comprehension) and then took it away
13:52 stevan fglock: the plan is to just deparse subs and then compose them back together with eval
13:52 stevan and avoid the sub call overhead
13:52 audreyt I tried to lure edwardk to hack it back in the GHC hackathon but it didn't happen... maybe do it myself some time (or maybe you can do it :))
13:53 stevan fglock: and to support various ways of recombining as well (conjoin, disjoin, chain, etc)
13:53 cmarcelo audreyt: I bet on you since i'm still reading the ghc commentary :o)
13:54 cmarcelo and, what you mean by "good enough warnings for the simple case"?
13:54 audreyt s/warnings/error messages/
13:55 cmarcelo ah, it was hard to identify when list monad was being used and emit good enough msgs..
13:55 audreyt right
13:56 fglock stevan: cool - you can also support more high level things, like atomic
13:56 audreyt but if you use -fmonad-comprehensions then you asked for it
13:56 cjeris joined perl6
13:56 audreyt Pugs can certainly use more of that
13:56 fglock stevan: Set::Infinite also supports undo, which is used for backtracking :)
13:57 cmarcelo fglock: (i'll try cpan v6 and then upgrade from pugs tree to see if it works smoothly)
13:59 fglock cmarcelo: the v6 in svn currently passes less tests than the CPAN version
14:00 audreyt actually Test.pm's :depends<> handling seems to have broken it wrt v6.pm
14:01 fglock audreyt: I'll take a look, thanks
14:02 cmarcelo i see. but in hackaton context things will happen in svn repo, right?
14:02 stevan fglock: it's possible, my first priority is a good conjoin as that is immediately useful for speeding up Moose type constraints, but the goal is to create a nice framework so that you can eaisly make new combination types
14:03 [particle] are there any examples of refactoring from duck-typing to role-based composition?
14:07 fglock cmarcelo: yes, I think we will need to move emitter-2 to misc/Common, and keep the CPAN version in perl5/ for a while
14:09 fglock stevan: btw, I wrote this while trying out binding and typing implementations in plain p5: http://svn.openfoundry.org/pugs/perl5/Pu​gs-Emitter-Perl6-Perl5-2/type-example.pl
14:09 lambdabot http://tinyurl.com/tdx9d
14:10 fglock x= is overloaded to typed assignment, and = does binding
14:10 * nothingmuch 's idle loop is babbling
14:11 nothingmuch wtf
14:11 nothingmuch oh, wrong window
14:11 nothingmuch up + enter
14:11 nothingmuch urffff
14:12 fglock stevan: the nice thing is that most operations only have the indirection overhead
14:16 stevan x= ??
14:16 nothingmuch $foo x= 3; # "$foo$foo$foo"
14:16 nothingmuch methinks
14:17 fglock stevan: it implements typed STORE
14:17 stevan huh
14:17 fglock the type is an object stored in the $var (try running the code)
14:18 fglock the object also holds the value, which can be accessed directly (no OO overhead!)
14:19 fglock so STORE is expensive, but FETCH is not
14:20 stevan oh wow,..
14:20 stevan :)
14:20 stevan this is kind fun :)
14:21 fglock I'm also using it for boxing Array and Hash, so they can be OO and unboxed at the same time
14:21 stevan yeah
14:21 stevan wow,.. this is really cool
14:21 stevan I never knew it existed :)
14:22 fglock oops - did I invent something?
14:22 audreyt stevan: you should hang around #perl6 more :)
14:22 [particle] :)
14:23 stevan audreyt: so true :)
14:23 stevan fglock: what does overloading '=' do?
14:23 fglock it does binding - both variables share the same cell
14:23 stevan oh i see
14:24 fglock actually, it shallow-copy the Type object :)
14:24 nothingmuch woot
14:24 nothingmuch i can now easily write Method::Accessor, Method::Constructor etc
14:24 nothingmuch and thus remove all the hackish closures from MO itself
14:24 stevan fglock: cool, so we can actually do autoboxing without having to use autobox :)
14:25 hexmode joined perl6
14:25 fglock yes - that's what emitter-2 is about (plus some other cool optimizations)
14:25 audreyt Moose::OutOfTheBox
14:25 fglock like, it knows how to deal properly with Pair at p5 level
14:26 gaal transgressive antlers!
14:26 fglock and lazy lists
14:26 gaal David Bowie should be so proud
14:27 stevan fglock: very nice!!!!!!!
14:27 [particle] perl 5 is a large box with many dark corners
14:27 fglock stevan: thanks!
14:28 stevan ok,.. I hate to go, but I have a deadline,.. but fglock lets talk about this again, very soon
14:28 nothingmuch stevan: the problem converting this to perlland, of course, is that making people type x= is difficult ;-)
14:29 nothingmuch fglock++ # nice reuse of an otherwise useless operator
14:29 [particle] yes, and accidental binding will be common
14:29 stevan nothingmuch: change is hard :P
14:29 nothingmuch yep =/
14:29 audreyt I hate to go too but I have a plane :) *wave*
14:29 nothingmuch have a nice flight
14:29 * stevan waves
14:29 * [particle] waves
14:29 gaal moose moose!
14:29 fglock you can use v6 :)
14:30 Patterner A moose once bit my sister.
14:30 [particle] did she get superpowers?
14:30 stevan fglock: I look forward to the day direct usage of Moose is no longer needed and I can just use v6 straight :)
14:30 fglock gotta go too - lunch &
14:30 fglock stevan: just rewrite Moose to v6?
14:30 stevan circularity!
14:30 nothingmuch stevan: i need a minion
14:31 stevan nothingmuch: me too ;)
14:31 Patterner It wasn't a radioactive moose :(
14:31 fglock it will power Pugs & v6.pm :)
14:31 fglock left perl6
14:32 gaal moose recognition: http://www.simplebits.com/not​ebook/2004/11/19/contest.html
14:32 lambdabot Title: SimpleBits | Mystery Photo Contest Thing, http://tinyurl.com/ylvap8
14:33 * stevan grumbles some and return to $work work
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14:57 osfameron joined perl6
14:57 osfameron afternoon
14:57 osfameron I'd really like to try http://feather.perl6.nl:8080/cgi-bin/runpugs?
14:57 lambdabot Title: Run Perl 6 Now -- in your browser!
14:57 osfameron but silly work firewall dosn't like :8080
14:57 osfameron is there any chance of having it listen on :80 as well?
15:03 Juerd osfameron: No, none.
15:04 Juerd osfameron: :80 is strictly static content, for security and maintaintenance reasons.
15:04 Juerd This excludes finger.pl, which is practically still static. It doesn't interact with the user.
15:04 * Juerd wants to make that fully static too one day
15:05 weinig joined perl6
15:05 Juerd weinig: Da's niet veel
15:05 bernhard joined perl6
15:06 osfameron oh well
15:06 osfameron ta anyway
15:17 Juerd osfameron: Can you access port 443 (https)?
15:17 Juerd osfameron: Because then you could request a feather account, and then either:
15:18 Juerd 1. connect with ssh, and try pugs locally on the server
15:18 Juerd 2. set up an ssh tunnel to access port 8080
15:18 Juerd The https port is used for both https and ssh.
15:18 dakkar using the semi-magical proxy by BooK?
15:18 Juerd Yep :)
15:19 theorbtwo Of course, you could also get the code and throw up a server yourself that does run on :80.
15:19 Juerd I had the same idea long time ago, but never came around to implementing it. I saw his talk about Net::Proxy at YAPC::Europe, and then saw that this was a far superior thing than I would ever have created myself :)
15:19 osfameron I could also just run pugs locally :-)
15:20 Juerd theorbtwo: But then, that means that you can run pugs locally, which means there's no reason for a web terminal anymore :)
15:20 osfameron but feather seems handy as I'd just get out of sync
15:20 Juerd osfameron: You can request an account by sending me an email.
15:20 osfameron Juerd: yeah, 443 is good for me (it's how I irc)
15:20 theorbtwo True, but running a copy on port 80 means that the next guy wouldn't have that problem.
15:20 Juerd osfameron: Include your real name, and your requested username
15:20 osfameron Juerd: cool, can you privmsg me your preferred email?
15:20 Juerd theorbtwo: If someone has a spare box, sure
15:20 [particle] juerd: are you backlogged with account requests?
15:20 Juerd theorbtwo: But I prefer not to provide such things
15:21 Juerd [particle]: Yes, by one account. I read the mail confirming the requested login today.
15:21 vel joined perl6
15:21 [particle] ok, great
15:21 Juerd [particle]: Sending a message with all necessary information in one time can save a few days :)
15:21 Juerd [particle]: I'm currently more-than overloaded re work
15:21 Juerd We moved our entire office
15:21 [particle] juerd: ouch
15:22 Juerd osfameron: No. Is a public message okay with you? [email@hidden.address]
15:22 [particle] juerd: i'll let coke know you're working on it
15:22 Juerd [particle]: The ouch factor is that this wasn't planned.
15:22 osfameron Juerd: thanks :-)
15:23 [particle] Juerd++
15:23 [particle] unplanned move of entire office? yikes!
15:26 andara juerd: what do you think of the load caused by runpugs?
15:27 vel joined perl6
15:28 Juerd andara: So far, it has been acceptable. Do you renice the processes?
15:29 Juerd Who's using ssh over port 443 right now by the way?
15:29 Juerd I notice that sslh uses quite a lot of CPU power :(
15:29 Juerd read(5, "", 4096)                       = 0
15:29 Juerd write(2, "Use of uninitialized value in co"..., 101) = 101
15:29 Juerd Oh :(
15:30 andara juerd: no, how would i do that?
15:30 Juerd andara: man nice
15:31 Juerd BooK: ping
15:31 Juerd BooK: paste for you:
15:31 Juerd read(5, "", 4096)                       = 0
15:31 Juerd write(2, "Use of uninitialized value in concatenation (.) or string at /usr/share/perl5/Ne"..., 101) = 101
15:31 Juerd select(24, [4 5 6 7 8 9], [5], NULL, NULL) = 1 (in [5])
15:31 Juerd write(2, "Use of uninitialized value in length at /usr/share/perl5/Net/Proxy.pm line 245.\n", 80) = 80
15:31 * Juerd restarted sslh
15:32 andara Juerd: :-) I can nice them on launch of course. Where whould you like them?
15:32 Juerd andara: I don't understand the question
15:33 Juerd Just start the process with nice
15:33 Juerd nice pugs foo.p6
15:33 BooK Juerd: pong
15:34 andara Juerd: I meant, any prefered -n value? But if just 'nice' is fine, no bother.
15:34 Juerd BooK: Do you happen to know this bug? I lack tuits to debug
15:34 Juerd andara: 10 is fine
15:34 BooK Juerd: can you push a bug report on rt?
15:35 Juerd even if you use 3 of 4, it already allows others to still use the box should runpugs turn into an infinite cpu hog, and all the limitations already on it fail :)
15:35 BooK Net::Proxy sometimes dies without reason (or message) on me
15:35 Juerd BooK: I haven't seen it dying yet. But then, I don't use it myself
15:35 Juerd BooK: Sure
15:35 BooK which is why I run it in a while true ; do ... ; done loop :)
15:35 BooK thanks
15:36 Juerd Done
15:37 Juerd I only start it on boot
15:37 cmarcelo joined perl6
15:37 Juerd Oh, no, I do have it in a loop.
15:37 Juerd I don't remember setting that up :)
15:37 Juerd afk
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15:47 ingy nothingmuch: pong
15:53 buetow joined perl6
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16:19 rafl audreyt: The debian extralibs thingy is waiting for igloo (the debian ghc maintainer) uploading some extra packages.
16:31 weinig_ joined perl6
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17:11 TimToady @tell audreyt MOH is just a rotated HOW.  :)
17:11 lambdabot Consider it noted.
17:13 gaal also WHO
17:13 [particle] also OHM
17:14 gaal also ΣIO
17:16 TimToady those are more like anagrams than rotations...
17:16 svnbot6 r14416 | fglock++ | v6/emitter - moving the unstable version to pX/Common
17:18 gaal WHO is two different kinds of rotation
17:18 gaal ΣIO is HOTEL-script
17:19 TimToady doesn't work well in a sans-serif font...
17:22 weinig is now known as weinig|bbl
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17:53 svnbot6 r14417 | fglock++ | v6 - merged with CPAN version
17:53 svnbot6 r14417 | fglock++ | - devel version of the emitter is now in pX/Common
18:00 weinig|bbl is now known as weinig
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18:29 pmichaud_ is now known as _pmichaud_
18:30 _pmichaud_ is now known as pmichaud
18:30 TimToady hi patrick, how's things?
18:31 gaal any openfoundry-related folks around?
18:32 TimToady seems unlikely, given the time of night
18:33 gaal gotta try my luck, maybe someone's pulling an audrey
18:34 svnbot6 r14418 | fglock++ | v6 - Test.pm works again
18:37 prism joined perl6
18:38 TimToady audrey's not even pulling an audrey...
18:38 TimToady it's amazing how quite this channel gets when audrey is in an airplane.
18:38 TimToady *quiet
18:39 gaal The Elk Audreyborous
18:41 fglock hi
18:46 cdpruden joined perl6
19:10 takanori joined perl6
19:17 Khisanth TimToady: only until wireless connections on planes become common :)
19:19 TimToady troonuff
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20:15 cj TreyHarris: btw, I was just giving you a hard time about spending all your working hours on this channel
20:19 ashleyb is Perl6::Rules depreciated in favor of Pugs::Compiler::Rule?
20:20 PerlJam heh.
20:20 PerlJam ashleyb: did you read the docs for Perl6::Rules?
20:20 ashleyb I quickly skimmed them
20:21 ashleyb But I didn't find anything that compared them to Pugs::C::R
20:21 ashleyb so I didn't find any expert confirming my hunch, so that's why I asked.
20:21 PerlJam ashleyb: Let me draw your attention to all of the Notes in the docs for Perl6::Rules
20:22 PerlJam ashleyb: they all follow a similar form to this:  "due to limitations of the Perl 5 regex engine, the Perl6::Rules module does not currently support this feature"
20:22 PerlJam ad nauseum
20:22 TimToady P6::R was abandoned before PCR was started...
20:25 fglock ashleyb: Pugs::Compiler::Rule trades speed for features, except that it doesn't have many features yet
20:26 PerlJam fglock: but you're also not hampered by the direct reliance on the perl5 RE engine
20:27 fglock yes, most limitations of Perl6::Rules don't apply
20:27 ingy hi cj
20:27 cj hey there ingy.  long time no see
20:27 ingy did you go to spug last night?
20:28 ashleyb I assume it has the "feature" of implementing all of S05?
20:28 ingy oh btw I got a motorcycle recently
20:28 ashleyb (in p5 syntax that is)
20:28 ingy do you still have yours?
20:28 cj yeppers.  Sounds like lots of fun things are happening in the world of perl6.  I got commit rights, too, so I'll see if I can't make some mischief.  Of course I've got /work/ work to do for a while...
20:28 cj ingy: I gave it to my brother.  My wife doesn't want to become a single mom :)
20:29 ingy :P
20:29 cj I bet I could borrow it for a jaunt or two, though.  Fall is my favorite time for riding
20:29 SamB cj: who doesn't have commit access to the pugs repo?
20:29 cj SamB: tdbptdpbh
20:29 cj SamB: I feel like I'm special, therefore I'm special.
20:29 ingy why does everyone assume that motorcycle == death
20:29 PerlJam SamB: There are about 6 billion people who don't have access to the pugs repo  (yet)
20:29 cj ingy: ask the folks in emergency rooms
20:30 ashleyb SamB: no one is going to answer that question.
20:30 ashleyb SamB: because if they answer it here, they get lassoed with a bit.
20:30 ruoso joined perl6
20:30 ashleyb or they already have one.
20:30 ingy I've been riding nearly 20 years with no major incidents
20:30 fglock ashleyb: take a look at the tests in t/ - this gives a broad view of what works
20:30 ashleyb k
20:30 ingy I'm lucky I know. but I'm pretty lucky in general
20:31 PerlJam ingy: The logic goes something like "people are stupid, ergo you're going to screw up or someone around you is going to screw up and you're dead"  :-)
20:31 PerlJam ingy: do you wear a helmet?
20:31 cj ingy: my incidents haven't been "major" in the sense of needing to spend time with a doctor, but I've fallen off/down quite a few times in ways that could very easily have hurt me badly
20:31 ingy I do in now :)
20:31 ingy I do now
20:31 cj PerlJam: he's wearing one *right now*!!!
20:31 PerlJam heh
20:31 PerlJam not *that* kind of helmet!
20:31 PerlJam ;-P
20:32 cj now I'm curious what type of helmet you think he's wearing...
20:32 ingy I once rode to the Illinois state capitol with 1000's of hogs to protest the helmet law
20:32 ingy Illinois is still a free state
20:33 PerlJam ingy: There was an accident on a major highway here the other day. An 18-wheeler switched lanes into a car which spun out and hit another car which was knocked into a lady on a motorcycle.  Guess who was the only one to get seriously hurt?
20:33 ingy But now I rather like helmets ad leather
20:33 fglock ashleyb: take a look also in lib/Pugs/Grammar/Rule2.pm - but to you that syntax you need to install the v6.pm module too
20:33 ingy PerlJam: your mom?
20:33 ingy ;)
20:34 cj fglock: you mean "youse"?
20:34 cj get back to work, cj
20:34 fglock you use
20:34 ingy I know shit happens. I just want to be on a motorcyle when I die.
20:34 fglock for you to use
20:34 ingy and I want to die old so I try hard to be safe
20:35 ashleyb fglock:  I"m still confused
20:35 ashleyb fglock: what's in Rule2.pm that I need?
20:35 fglock ashleyb: I mean, take a look at the source code, to see what kind of stuff is supported
20:36 ashleyb ok
20:36 fglock it is compiled with PCR itself, with v6.pm help
20:36 * SamB prefers to think that everyone has commit access, some of them just don't know it yet
20:36 lanny joined perl6
20:38 lanny Hi all.  I'm seeing conflicts in perl5/Pugs-Emitter... but haven't modified anything in those directories.  Any suggestions?
20:39 PerlJam What's the perl6 version of perl 5's  \b  (word boundary)  ?
20:39 fglock lanny: try rm and svn up
20:39 fglock lanny: the directories were moved today
20:39 ashleyb is there a vim syntax highlighter for perl6?
20:39 lanny And lose my 2  line change on a single  file!?  Are you crazy??
20:39 lanny Ok.  Thanks.  :)
20:40 [particle] pj: <?wb>
20:41 justatheory joined perl6
20:41 fglock lanny: if you commit only the file you changed, it will not check elsewhere
20:41 fglock ci filename
20:41 PerlJam [particle]: and are there synonyms for fore and aft boundaries?  (ala vi's \> and \< )
20:41 kolibrie ashleyb: util/perl6.vim
20:41 ashleyb thx
20:41 fglock svn ci filename
20:41 lanny fglock: Good reminder.  I'm used to popping to top of tree, svk  update, svk st, then committing.
20:42 fglock lanny: yes, that's safer
20:42 lanny Yes.  The result of a misguided adulthood as a software developer.  :(
20:43 [particle] pj: i don't think so
20:43 larsen joined perl6
20:43 [particle] pj: perhaps <after wb> and <before wb> ?
20:43 fglock PerlJam: word>> and <<word
20:44 [particle] whoa, is that new?
20:44 [particle] i need to test those
20:44 PerlJam [particle]++  :-)
20:44 fglock the unicode version should work in PCR, the ascii version had problems with M::C
20:45 svnbot6 r14419 | lanny++ | * docs/feather/index.html - expand pugscode.org to include irc and smoke
20:45 vel joined perl6
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20:45 [particle] hrm, missing = in =item header in S05
20:45 lanny fglock++ Thanks again.
20:45 [particle] just before Backslash reform
20:47 fglock home &
20:48 fglock left perl6
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20:56 ingy seen audreyt
20:56 jabbot ingy: audreyt was seen 6 hours 26 minutes 36 seconds ago
20:58 TimToady note however, that the definition of word boundary there was wrong up until about a minute ago...
20:58 explorer joined perl6
21:02 seano joined perl6
21:03 seano gaal: ping?
21:06 Limbic_Region joined perl6
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21:09 [particle] timtoady: did you see the improper formatting?
21:11 [particle] -item *
21:11 [particle] +=item *
21:11 [particle] S05:1014
21:15 weinig is now known as weinig|bbl
21:25 seano any good reason for having ":e foo" always run in an empty environment?
21:26 seano seems to me you can always just use ":r" if you want that...
21:26 seano (alternatively, is there some way to print the haskell-form of a value besides :e?)
21:28 theorbtwo Hm, I thought that was fixed some time ago...
21:31 seano not here (== CVS, er svn, as of this morning)  See src/Pugs.hs:336
21:31 seano and I don't think "fixed" is the word, as someone went to some trouble to add a flag controlling this.
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22:05 weinig|bbl is now known as weinig
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22:49 gaal seano: pong
22:50 gaal seano: what does svn annotate say about it?
22:50 gaal seano: I'm just about to write the openfoundry folks, unless you have already :)
22:50 seano hang on a sec, let me check..
22:51 gaal ingy: audreyt's conti-commuting
22:51 seano what would you hope/expect it to say?
22:52 cmarcelo joined perl6
22:53 seano mostly just says "audrey was here", and doesn't list the lines I've changed.
22:53 seano Okay, I'll mail the openfoundry folks.
22:53 gaal seano: would help you find the commit revision, so you can track down the ci log and see if it comes with a rationale.
22:53 seano oh, other question.
22:53 seano ok.
22:55 gaal seano: ok, I'm about to turn in for tonight. If you get a response from them (might happen in a few hours) ask here to get reinvited
22:55 gaal there are plenty of people who can send you a commit bit :)
22:55 seano okay, will do.  thanks.
22:56 gaal good night :)   zzZ&
23:07 ingy gaal: thanks
23:07 ingy where is she headed?
23:07 ingy oops. ENOGAAL
23:08 justatheory joined perl6
23:09 Limbic_Region seano - I can get you a commit bit
23:09 Limbic_Region just need an email address
23:12 seano sure -- my name at cs dot ucsd dot edu
23:13 seano (er name == nick)
23:14 Limbic_Region give me a minute
23:16 Limbic_Region commit bit on its way
23:17 Limbic_Region typically first commit is adding yourself to the AUTHORS file
23:17 Limbic_Region don't be afraid to commit something to the wrong place if there is no one around to give you advice
23:17 Limbic_Region commit it and it will get taken care of
23:18 seano what about features you find personally useful?
23:18 Limbic_Region seano - pugs features, perl 6 features, or modules that you think would make pugs more fun or what?
23:18 seano e.g. I don't want the pugs shell to print results for evaluating things that end with a semicolon (think matlab).
23:19 seano things to make development life more livable for the moment.
23:20 Limbic_Region *shrug*
23:20 Limbic_Region I dunno as I never use pugs shell (I write a file as I do with Perl)
23:20 Limbic_Region I would guess you would want to discuss that with the channel though
23:20 * seano freaking masochists...
23:20 * seano mutters that, that is...
23:21 * Limbic_Region is definately a masochist
23:21 seano k -- hey channel: anyone object if the shell doesn't output the evaluation result on things ending in a semicolon?
23:21 * [particle] freak dances
23:22 seano e.g. you can do "@x = something_really_big();"
23:22 seano instead of "@x = srb(); 1"
23:22 Limbic_Region seano - I don't think it currently prints anything out without print or say
23:22 Limbic_Region ooh, it does
23:22 Limbic_Region hrm
23:22 seano yup...
23:23 [particle] pugs> my @a= (1..10);
23:23 [particle] my @a= (1..10);
23:23 [particle] (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10)
23:23 [particle] pugs>
23:23 Limbic_Region seano - I would suggest making it configurable
23:23 [particle] ah, too late :)
23:23 [particle] how about a flag, like use/no 'echo';
23:23 Limbic_Region right
23:24 seano yeah.  $?STFU
23:24 seano er, $*STFU that would be.
23:25 seano Limbic_Region:  no dice on the invite -- I already have an account, so it doesn't seem to do anything.
23:25 seano Limbic_Region:  I sent them an email, so I can just wait.
23:26 Limbic_Region ahh
23:26 Limbic_Region well, it could have been eaten as spam
23:26 Limbic_Region I don't hand out commit bits very often but almost inevitably I end up using a second email address for the requester because the 1st never shows up
23:26 [particle] seano: the best way forward is probably probably to write a pragma... that's what you'd do in perl 5, no?
23:27 seano [particle]: no, this is only relevant in the shell.  so a commandline option and/or rc file
23:28 Alias_ joined perl6
23:28 seano [particle]: well, I guess you *could* use a pragma, but I don't think pugs has those yet.
23:28 Limbic_Region seano - what is you current OpenFoundry acct name?
23:28 seano seano :)
23:29 Limbic_Region ok - going to add you that way
23:30 Limbic_Region seano - done
23:30 Limbic_Region you should just be able to use your current acct/pw
23:30 seano Limbic_Region: sweet -- works.
23:31 * Limbic_Region takes a bow
23:33 mako132_ joined perl6
23:33 Limbic_Region personally regarding the pugs shell
23:33 Limbic_Region I was thinking a :flag
23:33 Limbic_Region like :h = help
23:34 Limbic_Region :q = quiet would have been nice, but :q is taken for quit
23:34 [particle] :s for shhhh
23:34 Limbic_Region :s = silent mode perhaps
23:34 svnbot6 r14420 | seano++ | added self
23:34 * Limbic_Region high fives [particle]
23:35 seano yeah, that makes sense.  maybe traipse down the slippery slope and have :s ARG..., short for "stty" ;)
23:37 svnbot6 r14421 | seano++ | * Turn of "strict 'vars'" for -e scripts via the non-standard variable
23:37 svnbot6 r14421 | seano++ |   $?STRICT.  This will go away with lexical pragmas.  (Note: you can
23:37 svnbot6 r14421 | seano++ |   also de-strict your pugs interactive experience with "$?STRICT=0".)
23:39 dmq joined perl6
23:41 Limbic_Region salutations demerphq
23:42 Limbic_Region ok, well welcome aboard seano
23:42 * Limbic_Region is calling it a night
23:42 Limbic_Region TTFN all
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