Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2006-10-19

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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02:17 svnbot6 r14422 | audreyt++ | * Pugs.Lexer: Avoid the annoying and not helpful "expecting comment"
02:17 svnbot6 r14422 | audreyt++ |   in parse errors.
02:19 cmarcelo audreyt: ping
02:19 audreyt sorry can't stay
02:19 lambdabot audreyt: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
02:19 audreyt at baggage claim
02:20 audreyt will be back in 3hr
02:20 cmarcelo ok
02:20 svnbot6 r14423 | audreyt++ | * Pugs.Parser: Implement the "Closing hash curly may not terminate a line"
02:20 svnbot6 r14423 | audreyt++ |   rule as mandated by the new spec.
02:21 * cmarcelo forgot "offline commit in a plane" svk use case :o)
02:22 * eviltwin_b knows a number of people who're prone to that
02:22 eviltwin_b (hm, most of them are here, come to think of it :> )
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02:58 agentzh class diagram for Moose: http://perlcabal.org/agent/moose.png
02:59 agentzh generated from a single command: $ perl rt2png.pl moose Moose "Moose|MOP"
03:02 agentzh audreyt, stevan, nothingmuch: please check the sanity of http://perlcabal.org/agent/moose.png :)
03:03 TreyHarris what's the Perl 5 equivalent of / (\d+) { $0 < 256 or fail } / ?  is there one?
03:04 audreyt yes it involves (??{...})
03:05 audreyt qr/(\d+) (??{$1 < 256 ? '(?!)' : ''})/x
03:05 audreyt or some such.
03:05 TreyHarris audreyt: welcome to the united states :)
03:06 audreyt boarding plane to portland in 5min now... bbl
03:09 agentzh fglock: class diagram for Pugs::Compiler::Perl6: http://perlcabal.org/agent/pcr.png it's generated automatically by my plotter based on PPI and Class::Inspector. not sure if it's sane. :)
03:17 agentzh these pictures are a bit huge, so they may look fuzzy in the web browser. ;)
03:17 svnbot6 r14424 | raptor++ | action 'if' cond; - added
03:17 Khisanth agentzh: not with a big enough screen! :P
03:18 agentzh Khisanth: nodnod
03:18 agentzh :)
03:18 Khisanth although it definitely does NOT work when you only have 256MB of memory
03:19 agentzh indeed
03:19 agentzh i'll upload the diagram generator to cpan (possibly with the name UML::Class) once it's mature enough.
03:20 SamB Khisanth: oh well! I never even build pugs anymore anyway.
03:20 TreyHarris I think the actual equivalent in perl 5 is qr/((?<!\d)\d+(?!\d)) (??{$1 < 256 ? '' : '(?!)'})/x
03:21 TreyHarris Perl 6 regexes are soo much nicer :)
03:21 SamB that does look pretty damn nice, as regexes go!
03:22 TreyHarris SamB: "/ (\d+) { $0 < 256 or fail } /" looks nice?  or you were sarcastically saying that that perl 5 monstrosity looks nice?  or you really think it does look nice? :)
03:22 SamB the perl6 version!
03:23 TreyHarris ah.  k, yes :)
03:23 SamB what kind of fool do you take me for?
03:23 TreyHarris though.... hmmmm.... maybe that's not the equivalent perl 5.  do any of the current engines compile the above RE?
03:24 SamB Even a (former?) Python user can recognize a nice looking regular expression when he sees one...
03:24 TreyHarris Was thinking about the "2360" case, which I don't know would match 236 or not.
03:24 Khisanth TreyHarris: strange RE you got there
03:24 TreyHarris Khisanth: it's from S05.
03:25 Khisanth I mean the perl 5 version
03:25 TreyHarris oh, how so, is there a better way?
03:25 TreyHarris i'm feverish with flu, so i'm willing to bet i missed something obvious
03:25 Khisanth I mean the \d+ is already greedy, the look arounds appear to be completely unnecessary
03:26 eviltwin_b I was wondering about that myself
03:26 TreyHarris Khisanth: oh?  try it, leave them out, it matches 236 when you have 2360
03:27 Khisanth hmm
03:27 Khisanth I guess the (??{}) is forcing it to backtrack :)
03:27 TreyHarris yes, of course :)
03:27 eviltwin_b oh, I see, /x is on by default in perl6 I take it
03:28 Khisanth yes
03:28 TreyHarris being able to finely control backtracking is a Perl 6 neologism
03:28 eviltwin_b and yes, it would backtrack and try again; that's the nature of regex matching
03:28 TreyHarris eviltwin_b: you need to read S05... backtracking is no longer "the nature" of matching; as i just mentioned, you can control it pretty finely in Perl 6
03:29 eviltwin_b well, it's certainly the nature of perl5 (and other regexp engines) backtracking, which was the actual subject there
03:29 TreyHarris *nod* yes
03:30 TreyHarris you're right of course.
03:32 TreyHarris must catch my bus, i will see scrollback when i get home &
03:33 eviltwin_b I admit to being well behind the curve on p6 stuff,  need to do a lot of reading up :>
03:33 TreyHarris eviltwin_b: smartlinks make it MUCH faster to get up to speed
03:34 eviltwin_b (for those wondering wtf the crazy is:  see getcwd.pl in perl5 :)
03:34 TreyHarris i'd actually recommend you read the specs that way: go to smoke.pugscode.org, find some recent smoketest with a SYN link, and use that to read the synopses.  then you'll know as you're reading what's implemented yet and what's not
03:34 TreyHarris & really now
03:34 eviltwin_b I think that's the only contribution I made that had any staying power (and was about the last thing I expected to stick around...)
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04:44 cmarcelo @tell audreyt re moh: my next step was going forward and implement stuff related to classes (MO::Compile::Class::MI et al) but some design question on how to that come up, the main one being mapping (to Hs) the idea of subclassing and "rw" attributes ("just go for IORef"?). any ideas on this? or Pugs code that deals with related stuff? I'm looking now at OOHaskell paper (pointed by SEITC) to gather ideas.
04:44 lambdabot Consider it noted.
04:46 cmarcelo @tell nothingmuch (maybe you have some ideas on my questions to audreyt, see logs near this msg...)
04:46 lambdabot Consider it noted.
04:46 cmarcelo lambdabot: tks
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06:10 audreyt safely arrived to Schwern's.
06:10 audreyt going to sleep now :) be back in 10 hours or so
06:10 audreyt @tell cmarcelo yes IORef is the way to go. in RealPugs it'd be TVar but it's the same
06:10 lambdabot Consider it noted.
06:10 clkao audreyt!
06:12 audreyt hi clkao
06:13 audreyt clkao: sorry can't stay up any longer :) turns out the gel control is based on individual bottle's volume, not the total amuont, so I get to pass intact with crazy amount of stuff in many small bottles
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06:14 clkao audreyt++
06:14 eviltwin_b the terrorists have won...
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09:09 nothingmuch_ @tell cmarcelo in the first revision of MO all the is rw were is ro. I think we should have an is ro version, where it's just records, and a tvar/IORef version that is modifyiable by the runtime. when moh steps into action the IORef-y version is simplified into the read only version, so that the other code can stay purely functional
09:09 lambdabot Consider it noted.
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11:20 agentzh [particle]: your SmartLink.pm looks like a poetry. :)
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11:21 agentzh i said to myself while reading your code, "i should have written smartlinks.pl that way..."
11:22 agentzh and i'm also delighted to see my UML class diagram generator can also process your SmartLink.pm, a Moose-based modern perl 5 OO module:
11:22 agentzh http://svn.berlios.de/svnroot​/repos/unisimu/smartlink.png
11:22 lambdabot http://tinyurl.com/yhye4r
11:25 * agentzh goes back to slide-making.
11:25 agentzh too many classes, too many talks...
11:25 agentzh sigh.
11:33 avar Is there any $" in Perl 6?
11:33 Psyche^ is now known as Patterner
11:34 avar I.e. is "@arr"; { local $" = ":"; "@arr" } now "@arr[]" and @arr.join(":") ?
11:37 agentzh i hope not. :)
11:38 audreyt no. closest is overriding array stringification locally
11:38 audreyt which is cleaner
11:39 audreyt or even overriding infix:~ locally...
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11:39 avar I'm not asking for it. But since perlvar isn't finished this sort of thing isn't very clear:)
11:40 avar What's the output of:
11:40 avar $ grep url .svn/entries
11:40 avar for the rw pugs repos, I'm using the googlecode one and I want to commit a tyop fix:)
11:40 audreyt I think $_ $! $/ are the only 3
11:40 audreyt googlecode one is not kept uptodate
11:41 audreyt http://svn.openfoundry.org/pugs/ is rw
11:41 lambdabot Title: Revision 14424: /
11:41 avar yay
11:43 * avar nuked his svn:)
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11:43 avar nd -type f -name 'entries' -exec perl -pi -e 's[url="http://pugs.googlecode.com/svn/trunk"][url="http://svn.openfoundry.org/pugs]' {} \;
11:43 lambdabot http://pugs.googlecode.com/svn/trunk"][url="http://svn.openfoundry.org/pugs]'
11:43 avar missing @ :)
11:43 avar s/@/"/
11:44 audreyt not sure it's going to work
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11:57 avar is my openfoundry svn passwd the same as the website passwd?
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12:04 audreyt yes
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12:13 nothingmuch avar: svn switch does the same thing
12:13 lambdabot nothingmuch: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
12:13 nothingmuch @moosages
12:13 lambdabot cmarcelo said 7h 26m 37s ago: (maybe you have some ideas on my questions to audreyt, see logs near this msg...)
12:14 nothingmuch --relocate
12:22 avar avar@Arsia:/usr/local/src/pugs$ grep url .svn/entries  url="http://svn.openfoundry.org/pugs"
12:22 lambdabot Title: Revision 14424: /
12:22 avar I can't commit with the same passwd that I use to log in to rt.openfoundry.org
12:23 avar avar@Arsia:/usr/local/src/pugs$ svn ci -m'* Tyop: "an one-element" => "a one-element"'
12:23 avar Authentication realm: <http://svn.openfoundry.org:80> RT-Foundry Login
12:23 avar Password for 'avar':
12:23 avar Sending        docs/Perl6/Overview/Data.pod
12:23 avar Authentication realm: <http://svn.openfoundry.org:80> RT-Foundry Logi
12:25 audreyt that is right
12:25 audreyt just type in the same passwd again
12:25 svnbot6 r14425 | audreyt++ | * util/version_h.pl: Don't run `svn info` if there's no .svn.
12:26 avar audreyt: Doesn't help, sadly
12:26 avar I'll poke it later mmmaybe
12:26 avar http://avar.lir.dk/~avar/Data.pod.txt
12:27 Limbic_Region audreyt is safe and sound in Portland?
12:27 audreyt Limbic_Region: yup
12:27 Limbic_Region how is the jet lag?
12:27 audreyt avar: hmm weird. reet your passwd on web and try again?
12:27 audreyt oh and in any case the Data.pod is now ours
12:27 audreyt it's from upsteam svn.perl.org
12:27 audreyt which is why you can't commit
12:27 avar arr
12:27 audreyt I think
12:28 audreyt oh wait
12:28 audreyt no it's Overview not Spec
12:28 audreyt never mind me!
12:28 Limbic_Region oh, audreyt - I meant to @tell you.  I added seano last night who already had a foundry acct (which I didn't realize initially)
12:28 audreyt it's just 5:28am in the morning
12:28 avar audreyt: hihi:)
12:28 Limbic_Region when I sent an invite to his email - it was never received
12:28 avar I reset my passwd earlier, been trying with the new one
12:28 Limbic_Region and searching for an existing openfoundry member wasn't very intuitive
12:28 Limbic_Region but you probably have very little if any involvement anymore huh
12:28 audreyt avar: hm. try the old one ?
12:29 avar In any case I should get to $wrk, and I can just post patches anyway:)
12:29 audreyt Limbic_Region: indeed
12:29 avar audreyt: yeah:)
12:29 Limbic_Region well, it worked out in the end so I guess it doesn't matter
12:29 svnbot6 r14426 | audreyt++ | * Perl6::Overview::Data: s/an one-element/a one-element/ from avar++
12:30 avar wee!
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12:41 fglock agentzh: wow - it looks much more complex in this format :) re http://colabti.de/irclogger/irclogger_log/​perl6?date=2006-10-19,Thu&amp;sel=19#l165
12:41 lambdabot Title: #perl6 2006-10-19,Thu, http://tinyurl.com/yz8aj8
12:56 Limbic_Region um, my pugs appears to be fubar
12:56 Limbic_Region perlbot nopaste
12:56 perlbot Paste your code here and #<channel> will be able to view it: http://sial.org/pbot/<channel>
12:57 pasteling "Limbic_Region" at 129.33.119.12 pasted "output from smoke" (56 lines, 2.5K) at http://sial.org/pbot/20556
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13:36 svnbot6 r14427 | fglock++ | Pugs-Compiler-Rule - fixed '>>' token
13:39 svnbot6 r14428 | fglock++ | v6 - merged prefix::<$> from misc/pX
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13:46 xinming pasteling: url
13:46 xinming hmm,
13:48 fglock http://sial.org/pbot/paste
13:50 xinming http://paste.lisp.org/display/28291
13:50 xinming fglock: thanks
13:50 xinming fglock: I went to #emacs for the url. ;-)
14:01 avar svnbot would be awesomer if it included info on what files were changed
14:01 [particle] isn't there a mailing list for commit logs?
14:01 [particle] (parrot has one)
14:03 svnbot6 r14429 | yiyihu++ |  r14582@HomePc:  xinming | 2006-10-19 22:00:53 +0000
14:03 svnbot6 r14429 | yiyihu++ |  A ugly hack of fixing a compliation failure bug in pugs.
14:04 xinming hmm, I don't think the bug is fixed anyway. >_<
14:05 * xinming goes to recompiling again.
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14:05 nothingmuch http://www.youtube.com/wat​ch?v=NZNTgglPbUA&amp;eurl
14:05 lambdabot http://tinyurl.com/z645u
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14:59 andara PUGS_SAFEMODE=1 pugs fails for r14429 ...
15:00 fglock stevan: ping
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15:05 fglock @tell stevan  you have studied Scheme, right? - does it make sense to have a Scheme backend?
15:05 lambdabot Consider it noted.
15:09 eviltwin_b next it'll be prolog :)
15:11 TimToady cool.
15:11 TimToady eviltwin_b: do you have a commit bit yet?
15:12 eviltwin_b hm?  I'm not actually working on anything, nor am I in any position to do so.  maybe when I've caught up on things (as if...)
15:13 TimToady all the rest of us are in the same state, but that doesn't stop us.  :)
15:14 TimToady we all just change things on the fly while we're trying to catch up on things...
15:14 andara fglock: a core Scheme backend would be very nice
15:15 fglock I wonder how it compares to Haskell
15:15 andara fglock: in what sense?
15:16 fglock portability, speed, memory use ...
15:16 TimToady eviltwin_b: allbery (at) ece cmu etc.?
15:16 stevan fglock: scheme might be nice
15:16 lambdabot stevan: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
15:16 stevan @moosages
15:16 lambdabot fglock said 10m 55s ago: you have studied Scheme, right? - does it make sense to have a Scheme backend?
15:17 eviltwin_b yes
15:17 stevan fglock: scheme should have most of the features needed,.. but a full backend effort is quite a lot of work
15:19 TimToady eviltwin_b: commit bit is on its way.  while you're "catching up", add your name to AUTHORS as first checkin is the tradition. :)
15:19 fglock stevan: can we reuse the object system?
15:20 TimToady and have fun
15:20 theorbtwo Tangentially related to perl6 and pugs: http://blog.moertel.com/articles/2006/10/18/​a-type-based-solution-to-the-strings-problem
15:20 lambdabot Title: A type-based solution to the "strings problem": a fitting end to XSS and SQL-inj ..., http://tinyurl.com/uv94m
15:20 theorbtwo (Haskell-based.)
15:24 TimToady 散歩します。&
15:25 * theorbtwo wonders if we need a babelbot.
15:25 theorbtwo (JA): It walks. &
15:25 dakkar better: taking a stroll &
15:26 theorbtwo That was google translate.  I'm pretty well monolingual.
15:27 fglock lunch &
15:28 dakkar theorbtwo: mine was with a dictionary ;-)
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15:36 stevan fglock: Scheme does not have an object system
15:37 stevan it has *many* object systems :P
15:37 stevan LISP has an "official" one with CLOS
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15:37 stevan but object systems in Scheme/LISP are like templating systems in Perl,.. everyone has to write one eventually
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16:09 fglock stevan: I mean, can we reuse tiny-clos (or other) ?
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16:13 stevan fglock: potentially
16:13 stevan we would still need to add the Role stuff on top
16:13 stevan and a few other bits which CLOS does not have
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16:22 fglock stevan: http://people.cs.uchicago.edu/~ro​bby/pubs/papers/aplas2006-fff.pdf - about mixins & traits in Scheme
16:22 lambdabot http://tinyurl.com/y3h7qa
16:29 Limbic_Region joined perl6
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16:46 stevan fglock: very nice :)
16:48 stevan fglock: what is the motivation to do this?
16:49 fglock stevan: I'm just looking around if there are other alternative backends
16:50 weinig is now known as weinig|bbl
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17:48 TimToady getting a very consistent error: user error (unhandled element: EStr "~")
17:49 xinming TimToady: :-P I don't know if It is introduced by my ";" :-P
17:50 xinming TimToady: if I don't add ';' It wouldn't even compile.... >_<
17:52 TimToady I believe it's a yaml error
17:52 TimToady but the usual two culprits are up-to-date
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18:00 demq will perl6 have something like perl5s \C regex pattern?
18:00 demq can we remove it from perl5.10?
18:01 penk joined perl6
18:02 TimToady [:bytes .] but will fail if string doesn't present a bytes interface.
18:03 demq so will it allow access to the byte representation of the internal string?
18:04 demq because \C can be used to make perl get very unhappy.
18:04 demq since it can absorb a byte of a multibyte sequences making any further processing of the string dubious.
18:06 demq i wonder why it was added actually.
18:07 eviltwin_b struck me as a quick hack to enable byte processing instead of unicode.  not well thought out
18:07 eviltwin_b then again, that's perl <6 for you :>
18:08 demq yeah, it looks to me like a "we can do this, so why not?" without bothering to do any research on the why not.
18:08 demq im talking about \C not whatever perl6 will do.
18:10 demq it looks like nobody has used \C either. at least judging by the google code search
18:15 demq im assuming that perl6 wont include a way to make a regex cause perl to segv.
18:15 c6rbon joined perl6
18:24 TreyHarris demq: sure... "/ { dump; } /" ;)
18:25 elmex joined perl6
18:25 demq perl6 will have the same dump keyword?
18:25 Juerd Possibly.
18:25 * [particle] waves to TreyHarris
18:26 PerlJam I hope perl6's dump means something different from perl5's though  :)
18:27 Juerd demq: Normal strings will probably not have a bytes interface. Buffers will, and they won't have codepoint interfaces.
18:27 demq thats too bad. its a wasted keyword mostly.
18:27 Juerd demq: It's possible to have a string that presents both interfaces, but this requires extra care, either by the type's implementation, or the user.
18:27 Juerd I personally think it makes no sense to have a string present itself both as bytes and as characters.
18:28 TreyHarris PerlJam: there will, I assume, be *some* way to call dump(), even if it isn't called that.
18:28 * TreyHarris waves to [particle]
18:28 Juerd PerlJam: Why? What's wrong with dump?
18:29 Juerd (The function, not its name)
18:30 PerlJam Juerd: nothing is wrong with the functionality, just the name really
18:30 eviltwin_b mmm, namespace wastage
18:31 Juerd PerlJam: I agree. It should be somewhere in Internals::
18:31 Juerd (In perl 5)
18:31 TreyHarris or POSIX maybe?  does win32 support core dumps?
18:31 weinig|bbl is now known as weinig
18:32 TreyHarris POSIX.dump() would be fine
18:32 TreyHarris since I can't see one wanting to actually dump (in the .perl or .yaml sense) POSIX...
18:34 * TreyHarris &'s to meetings
18:35 vel joined perl6
18:37 TimToady Juerd: strings with multiple abstraction levels make sense only if string positions and lengths are not numbers but opaque abstractions.
18:40 TimToady and to the extent you treat them as numbers, they must be numbers that know which unit of abstraction is intended.
18:42 wolverian what do you say to a person who calls state an improper abstraction?
18:44 demq depends who they are
18:45 wolverian the opponent :)
18:45 TimToady you say, "But, but, all abstractions are improper to an aristotellian..."
18:45 demq i think you ask them to clearly define proper abstraction, and then wander off before they can finish.
18:47 wolverian my knowledge of the classics is lacking.
18:47 wolverian (er, thanks!)
18:50 * PerlJam installs ghc 6.6 to witness the big speed-up
18:58 weinig is now known as weinig|bbl
19:01 Juerd TimToady: Opaque abstractions and byte level manipulation don't go well together.
19:02 spoop joined perl6
19:02 PerlJam Juerd: That opaque CPU abstraction seems not to mind  ;-)
19:14 * eviltwin_b kinda wishes darwinports had 6.6.  or even qa working ghc-devel (currently some 6.5 but gets me a patch error)
19:16 PerlJam ghc 6.6 certainly doesn't compile quickly does it?
19:16 buubot joined perl6
19:17 PerlJam I think pugs compiles faster.
19:21 Limbic_Region pugs certainly runs faster
19:38 svnbot6 r14430 | andara++ | [runpugs]
19:38 svnbot6 r14430 | andara++ | -improved error handling (try not to die).
19:38 svnbot6 r14430 | andara++ | -Web::Terminal: new generic version with command history, supports GHCi and
19:38 svnbot6 r14430 | andara++ | many more. (not live yet)
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19:54 svnbot6 r14431 | fglock++ | v6/emitter(2) - added lightweight coro implementation example
19:57 andara left perl6
20:06 svnbot6 r14432 | audreyt++ | * DrIFT.YAML: Emit better error messages than "unhandled EStr ~"
20:06 svnbot6 r14433 | audreyt++ | * Pugs.AST.Internals: Serialize Pragma correctly, and bump CompUnit version.
20:13 fglock re r14431: it's roughly based on http://www.bookshelf.jp/texi/onlisp/onlisp_21.html
20:13 lambdabot http://tinyurl.com/y6qxyu
20:13 fglock and on the implementation of <prior> in PCR
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21:09 TimToady @tell audreyt it appears the "Closing hash curly may not terminate a line" error happens before isHashOrPair gets a chance to decide whether the block is in fact a hash block.
21:09 lambdabot Consider it noted.
21:09 cj is there anything fancy I need to do to commit code to the pugs repo?
21:09 cj shouldn't I be able to use the credentials I set up for the ossf page?
21:10 cj maybe it takes a while for the credentials to propagate
21:10 TimToady dunno offhand
21:11 audreyt maybe the auth failed somehow?
21:11 lambdabot audreyt: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
21:11 audreyt TimToady: can you try a commit and see if it works for you?
21:11 audreyt cj: try switch to https://svn.openfoundry.org/pugs/ and see if it works?
21:12 cj thanks audreyt
21:13 audreyt @messages
21:13 lambdabot TimToady said 4m 23s ago: it appears the "Closing hash curly may not terminate a line" error happens before isHashOrPair gets a chance to decide whether the block is in fact a hash block.
21:14 audreyt oops. fixed
21:14 svnbot6 r14434 | lwall++ | trivial change please ignore
21:14 ofer0 joined perl6
21:14 cj wow.  she is fast.
21:14 TimToady yes, commit works for me
21:16 TimToady src/Pugs/Parser/Util.hs:169:4: parse error on input `where'
21:16 svnbot6 r14435 | audreyt++ | * Pugs.Parser.Util: Repair the hash-compose-at-end-of-block
21:16 svnbot6 r14435 | audreyt++ |   detection to not misfire on non-hash blocks.  Reported by TimToady++.
21:16 svnbot6 r14436 | audreyt++ | * Oops, typo. :)
21:16 audreyt those pesky right parens... they always insist to balance
21:17 cj hurm.  failed again.
21:17 cj $ grep url .svn/entries
21:17 cj   url="https://cjcollier@svn.openfoundry.org/pugs"
21:17 cj I'll wait a few and try again.  I just set up the user no more than an hour ago
21:18 audreyt weird. it shouldn't take any time to propagate
21:18 cj maybe it shouldn't be cjcollier@...
21:18 audreyt shouldn't have mattered
21:18 cj wouldn't think...
21:18 yuval joined perl6
21:19 audreyt gugod: are you still in touch with ossf code/people? it appears new users cant commit suddenly
21:19 TimToady cj: the admin page says you're still unregistered
21:19 * cj hopes it's not a PEBKAC
21:19 audreyt no you're the second one to report
21:19 demq move the chair and try again.
21:19 audreyt will have to wait another 5hr though
21:19 demq :-)
21:19 cj ah.  maybe I need to register with the project and not just the site?
21:19 audreyt demq++
21:19 audreyt heh indeed!
21:20 audreyt there we go
21:20 audreyt gugod: false alarm, please discard
21:20 audreyt cj: commit again?
21:21 cj checking out again.  give it a few...
21:21 TimToady audreyt: getting a lot of *** Cannot cast from VUndef to Pugs.AST.Internals.VCode (VCode) at blib6/lib/Test.pm line 278, column 5-17
21:21 cj Committed revision 14437.
21:21 cj thanks :)
21:21 svnbot6 r14437 | cjcollier++ | - adding myself (CJ)
21:22 audreyt looking
21:22 TimToady looks like Bool needs to be Maybefied maybe
21:24 yuval eh, from INSTALL: "PREFIX doesn't actually work right now"
21:24 yuval any hackaround to make it work? installing to /lib /bin and /libexec is not FHS compliant...
21:24 TimToady blowing away Test.pm.yml doesn't help
21:24 TreyHarris cj: yay, i was afraid i had somehow screwed up (not like there's much to screw up in handing out a commitbit)
21:25 cj TreyHarris: looks like it was just my ignorance :)
21:25 TreyHarris what should i have told you that would have cleared it up, so i'll tell the next person? :)
21:26 cj audreyt: what did you do to add me to the project?  Could I have added myself?
21:26 multic left perl6
21:27 audreyt cj: no, requires prjadmin
21:27 audreyt http://commitbit.pugscode.org/
21:27 lambdabot Title: Pugs -- OSSF
21:27 cj TreyHarris: have an admin flip the bit for the user after they register, methinks
21:28 TreyHarris audreyt: i didn't know about that step... i've just been going to the URL above and inviting people, and it seemed to work in the past... what else do i need to do?
21:28 audreyt TimToady: someone broke &?ROUTINE. I suspect the strictness fix
21:28 audreyt TreyHarris: it did work usually
21:29 audreyt mabe cj instead of clicking on the link registerred anothe email instead
21:30 cj I went to this one: http://rt.openfoundry.org/Foundry​/Home/Guest/Verify.html?id=24500
21:30 lambdabot Title: Member Login -- OSSF, http://tinyurl.com/ym6k5a
21:30 audreyt that should've worked...
21:31 TreyHarris audreyt: i was about to be cute and change one of my world clocks from Taipei to Portland. :)  but then I realized knowing what time it is in openfoundry land is useful, and I already know what time it is in Portland....
21:32 audreyt yeah...
21:33 audreyt TimToady: fixed
21:33 audreyt it's indeed the strict fix
21:33 svnbot6 r14438 | audreyt++ | * isStrict: $?STRICT shouldn't be a global; rename it to $*STRICT.
21:34 buubot joined perl6
21:35 TimToady that's a funny way to say it, given that $*STRICT is global...
21:37 weinig is now known as weinig|food
21:37 audreyt what seano did was setting up so all $?FOO become global...
21:38 TimToady seems like compile-time's $*STRICT should get mapped to lexically scoped $?STRICT.
21:38 audreyt yes.
21:39 audreyt or rather, push to the envPragmas structure
21:39 audreyt not sure we need to expose all pragmas via $?FOO
21:39 audreyt maybe just one single %?PRAGMAS
21:39 TimToady sorry, unfortunate use of the "map" word...
21:39 audreyt you can say "fmap" which is safe in almost all circumstances...
21:39 TimToady :D
21:41 TimToady on the other hand, $? is sort of there for exposing such things in the first place.
21:42 audreyt multiple strict.pm with diff long names may all want $?STRICT though
21:42 ofer0 joined perl6
21:43 TimToady strictness is not really a unitary concept in any case
21:44 audreyt right.
21:44 dduncan joined perl6
21:45 TimToady though P6 really only does strict 'vars'...
21:45 TimToady having legislated the others out of existence.
21:45 rlb3 joined perl6
21:47 TimToady okay, seems to be smokin' smoothly now.
21:47 audreyt woot
21:47 TimToady audreyt: under what circumstances did you get rid of "expecting" errors?
21:47 TimToady still does it for $foo $bar
21:48 audreyt    expecting operator, statement modifier, ";" or end of input
21:48 audreyt I consider that useful
21:48 audreyt well, "end of input" is not
21:48 audreyt but the other 3 is
21:48 TimToady I think mere mortals would rather see: "You can't put two terms in a row without an operator between them."
21:49 audreyt so just "expecting operator ?
21:49 audreyt we can certainly special case each error state into a diagnostics
21:49 Limbic_Region joined perl6
21:49 TimToady yeah, that would be an improvement
21:50 TimToady ; and statment modifiers are just very loose operators...
21:50 TimToady statement even
21:53 nezcaz joined perl6
21:54 nezcaz hello *
21:54 Limbic_Region salutations !
21:54 TimToady howdy do
21:55 djuls joined perl6
21:55 djuls left perl6
21:56 PerlJam "pregnant term: expecting operator"  :-)
21:56 ruoso joined perl6
21:57 nothingmuch audreyt: seen something like this before? http://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=22289
21:57 jabbot nothingmuch: I havn't seen something, nothingmuch
21:57 lambdabot Title: #22289: Segfault after install, http://tinyurl.com/y2zlf7
21:58 nezcaz ah, need coffee i'am bloody tired
21:58 audreyt nothingmuch: no not at all
21:58 nothingmuch very mysterious =/
21:59 audreyt TimToady: done
21:59 * audreyt goes back slideshacking
22:00 svnbot6 r14439 | audreyt++ | * Parse message fix:
22:00 svnbot6 r14439 | audreyt++ |     - sigilled vars are taken as an unit in "unexpected" errors
22:00 svnbot6 r14439 | audreyt++ |     - semicolon, eof and statement modifiers are not mentioned anymore
22:00 svnbot6 r14439 | audreyt++ |   pugs> $x $y
22:00 svnbot6 r14439 | audreyt++ |   Unexpected "$y"
22:00 svnbot6 r14439 | audreyt++ |   expecting operator
22:00 svnbot6 r14439 | audreyt++ |   at <interactive> line 1, column 4
22:06 nothingmuch audreyt: how does Module::AutoInstall get into it? the YAML::Syck makefile.pl doesn't use auto install
22:07 Juerd ?eval $x 3
22:07 evalbot_r14413 is now known as evalbot_r14438
22:07 evalbot_r14438 Error: ␤Unexpected "3"␤expecting operator, statement modifier, ";" or end of input
22:07 Juerd ?eval $x say blah
22:07 evalbot_r14438 Error: ␤Unexpected "say"␤expecting operator, statement modifier, ";" or end of input
22:07 Juerd Oh, it lags behind one revision :)
22:08 Limbic_Region not really
22:08 norageek is now known as norageek2
22:08 Limbic_Region it probably isn't finished compiling
22:08 Juerd Which makes it lag behind one revision...
22:09 Juerd I'm not saying it *always* lags behind. Just that it lags behind, implying now.
22:09 Limbic_Region well, given the rate of commits - always probably isn't too far from the truth ;-)
22:09 Juerd :)
22:10 TimToady well, the basic problem is that you should never use the English present tense for present tense.
22:10 TimToady we never say "I run" to mean "I am running"
22:10 nothingmuch urf
22:11 TimToady "I run" always means "I run generally"
22:11 Juerd I've always known that English is weird in many ways. But this I even find hard to believe :)
22:11 Limbic_Region as in "I run to work every morning"
22:11 Juerd Sorry....
22:11 Juerd I know that English is weird in many ways. But this I am finding hard to believe.
22:11 TimToady that's okay, you can find it hard to believe in general.  :)
22:12 Juerd I don't find it hard to believe in general. Or, well, I'm not sure yet, as I'm already finding it a bit easier to believe :)
22:12 TimToady I'm sure there are also exceptions...
22:13 Juerd How on earth can a language get this weird?
22:13 Juerd Where you can't use present tense for present tense, or simple past for past tense...
22:14 TimToady The English look at the Americans, and the Americans look back at the English...
22:14 nezcaz latin :p
22:14 Juerd Latin made more sense in this respect.
22:14 Limbic_Region TimToady - have you read (m)?any of Steven Pinker's books?
22:14 TimToady nope.  I think my wife has though.
22:15 TimToady but then she reads pretty much everything.
22:15 * Juerd should perhaps unsubscribe from a few mailinglists
22:15 Juerd And just read the weekly summaries
22:16 Juerd TimToady: Then she must really love the Gutenberg project :)
22:16 * Limbic_Region hasn't read much non-fiction lately which isn't the norm
22:16 * Juerd doesn't read much at all.
22:16 Juerd I'm too impatient
22:16 TimToady I think she probably read most of the Gutenberg project while it was still on paper.
22:16 Juerd TimToady: Heh
22:17 Limbic_Region wow
22:17 Juerd Of technical books I often only get halfway through
22:17 Juerd s/Of t/T/
22:17 Juerd And I don't even begin reading fiction
22:18 * Juerd loves Perl Hacks
22:18 Juerd I can read it in random order and it still makes sense
22:22 nezcaz use Math::TrulyRandom to be sure that u are random enough :p
22:23 ofer0 joined perl6
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22:24 nezcaz s/are/
22:32 TimToady most of my failures appear to be a bare block at statement level being taken as a hash because the code inside was all commented out.  I don't think statement block should turn into hash ever.
22:33 TimToady @tell audreyt most of my smoke failures appear to be a bare block at statement level being taken as a hash because the code inside was all commented out.  I don't think statement block should turn into hash ever.
22:33 lambdabot Consider it noted.
22:33 nezcaz lol
22:38 thepler joined perl6
22:40 svnbot6 r14440 | lwall++ | hash curlies can't end a statement
22:40 svnbot6 r14441 | audreyt++ | * <TimToady> I don't think statement block should turn into hash ever.
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22:54 svnbot6 r14442 | lwall++ | .perl/eval roundtripping needs to isolate from statement boundary.
22:56 TimToady also possible that .perl shouldn't put out something that in isolation would be misinterpreted at a statement boundary...
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23:40 GeJ Møøse lambdacamels
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23:58 svnbot6 r14443 | lwall++ | more bare block cleanup
23:58 svnbot6 r14443 | lwall++ | s{...}{...} cleanup

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