Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2006-10-29

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
00:03 * eviltwin_b remmebers why the file-time things ara a pain in the butt in Haskell...
00:03 Limbic_Region joined perl6
00:32 eviltwin_b ...yep, looks like they should return Integers.  yug
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00:51 svnbot6 r14541 | audreyt++ | * Pugs.Parser.Operator: Sqaush the annoying 'term or "\("'
00:51 svnbot6 r14541 | audreyt++ |   message on parse-errors waiting on a term.
00:52 audreyt (at houston airport; boarding in 30min)
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01:07 cmarcelo audreyt: ping
01:08 audreyt cmarcelo: pong
01:08 audreyt (but only for 20min)
01:08 audreyt ingy: I'll probably not make it to Seattle now that neither stevan nor lwall is going to make it afaics
01:10 cmarcelo audreyt: "darcs pull moh" before getting in the plane :o)
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01:11 audreyt already did
01:11 audreyt :)
01:12 audreyt first thing I did, actually
01:17 cmarcelo what's the estimated time of arrival?
01:17 cmarcelo I will arrive in São Paulo by Wed or Thu, you folks will be hacking at the hotel or somewhere else or dunno?
01:19 audreyt ooh, nice, I look forward to two days of intense MO hacking with you
01:19 audreyt I'll stay in conference hotel
01:19 audreyt probably will hack there
01:19 audreyt will arrive tomorrow morning
01:19 audreyt boarding now... see you in brasil!
01:20 cmarcelo see you :)
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01:46 eviltwin_b hm, filetimes need $*BASETIME.  mmm, yak shaving
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02:15 eviltwin_b well, this ought to be interesting :)
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02:22 eviltwin_b hm, whoops, forgot to deal with the EpochTime issue setting up $*BASETIME.  guess I'll deal when it errors out :)
02:30 eviltwin_b hm, smells like I've committed an encapsulation violation.  feh.
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02:33 eviltwin_b but I did introduce a dependency loop.  feeeeeh.
02:34 eviltwin_b wish S29 didn't commit to keeping perl5's semantics for -M/-C/-A
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02:47 eviltwin_b woo, think I got it (and fixed the encapsulation issue at the same time)
03:02 eviltwin_b guess I meant S16 instead of S29 earlier.
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06:47 Eidolos audreyt: I'm reading through your recent Pugs slides. Very nice work. :)
06:54 eviltwin_b so if I have implemented a new operator (which the parser already knows about), jhow do I hook it in?
06:55 eviltwin_b I thought just adding the appropriate `op1 ...' foo (in this case `op1 "-M"') would do it due to pattern matching, but pugs complains about prefix:-M not being defined
07:03 eviltwin_b hm, ok, so that error implies it found it but thought it mismatched in types.  think I'm too tired to untangle tis now
07:03 eviltwin_b Haskell types are (obviously) correct, not sure how the internal Perl types work although I cloned the file size stuff to set it up
07:05 lumi eviltwin_b: I think it needs to be added to the prec table?
07:10 eviltwin_b hm, looked to me like all the file tests werer already there, just without implementations
07:10 eviltwin_b (but with tests, somewhat incorrectly)
07:10 lumi Which I think is initSyms in Pugs.Prims
07:10 lumi See, the other -X are in there
07:12 eviltwin_b ah, yes, missed that somehow.  rebuilding now.  lumi++
07:12 * eviltwin_b should probably not have bitten off quite so much the first time :)
07:13 lumi Nonsense, always leap before you think
07:18 eviltwin_b huh, didn't realize perl5 returned fractional days.  okay, get to tweak a bit
07:18 eviltwin_b otherwise, I appear to have success :)
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07:22 palomer will I have to put @ before hash tables in perl 6?
07:36 Eidolos The grades test case (in junctions) is kind of weird. if (one(@grade) < $threshold) { you may go to the movies } else { you may not }
07:36 Eidolos But if all your @grades are above threshold, you still may not go to the movies.
07:37 Eidolos It should probably use all(@grade) >= $threshold
07:38 Eidolos (but then it might just be a test for one in which case the odd output is probably excusable)
07:42 Eidolos Er, it's not a test case, sorry, it's an example.
07:43 eviltwin_b palomer: a hash variable would always be prefixed by % --- you never use @ (like in perl5 for hash slices) or $ (for individual lookups)
07:45 eviltwin_b woo.
07:46 eviltwin_b only problem with this code (aside from someone probably disliking the style :) is silliness with EpochTime
07:46 eviltwin_b afaict the only way to get it into a useful numeric form is read $ show
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08:16 eviltwin_b hmph.  think I confused svn somehow; svn diff (empty) and svn status (various generated files) don't do useful things
08:18 Eidolos svn status is probably reporting mysteriously new files, and svn diff isn't showing them because they aren't svn added.
08:18 eviltwin_b er?  the created files are things like Makefiles
08:18 eviltwin_b I added no files otherwise
08:18 Eidolos What does svn status look like?
08:18 eviltwin_b but I'd expect to see the changes I made to e.g. src/Pugs/Prim.hs
08:18 Eidolos oh
08:19 eviltwin_b ktrace suggested svn diff wasn't doing much of anything, actually
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10:27 eviltwin_b huuuuh.  "make test" blocks svn somehow?  now that it's done, svn status etc. work
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11:06 Debolaz Can a perl 6 module inherit from a perl 5 module with pugs? I see it's possible to use a perl 5 module, but inheriting didn't work as smoothly.
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12:54 pmurias hi,
12:54 pmurias i'm coding a symmetry detection algorithm
12:56 Juerd Images?
12:56 pmurias how do i determine the angle formed by edges at each vertex if i know the coordinates of the three points?
12:56 pmurias Juerd: polygons
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12:57 pmurias Juerd: it probably would be simpler to do it with images as there seems to be more info on it
12:58 pmurias :)
13:00 pmurias cs.haifa.ac.il/hagit/courses/seminars/symmetry/Pre​sentations/Lecture03_SymmetryViaStringMatching.ppt
13:00 pmurias if you are intrested in the problem
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13:02 * pmurias trigonomery skills are lames, so he has to ask to people for help with the mathy part :(
13:02 pmurias s/second to//
13:07 Juerd My trigonometry skills are near to non-existent
13:07 Juerd I know Pythagoras, and that's about it :)
13:07 Juerd (Have been using it last week, though)
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13:20 svnbot6 r14542 | kudra++ | This week's summary
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13:40 pmurias Juerd: thanks for trying to be helpfull, i'll code the KMP and ask somebody at school tomorrow
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14:58 pasteling "rindolf" at 88.152.243.90 pasted "Perl 6 Building Problems" (22 lines, 1K) at http://sial.org/pbot/20731
15:01 rindolf So what do I do to resolve http://sial.org/pbot/20731 ?
15:01 lambdabot Title: Paste #20731 from "rindolf" at 88.152.243.90
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15:07 * integral looks
15:07 integral you haven't installed enough GHC
15:07 integral did you install from source?
15:08 integral If you installed from source, you need to follow what the last paragraph of the error says: you need both -src and -src-extralibs (untar them both from the same dir, they both untar into the ghc-6.6 subdirectory)
15:11 rindolf integral: I compiled the ghc-6.6 SRPM that I adapted myself.
15:11 rindolf integral: I didn't unpack src-extralibs.
15:11 integral That's the problem then.
15:11 rindolf integral: so I'm going to do that.
15:11 integral If you understand how to build cabal modules indidually, you could build extralibs as its own srpm(s)
15:11 integral *individually
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16:06 svnbot6 r14543 | audreyt++ | * stm-contend.pl: Sleep 0.1 instead of 1 sec each step.
16:09 svnbot6 r14544 | audreyt++ | * Pugs.Prim: async{...} should use user-level threads by
16:09 svnbot6 r14544 | audreyt++ |   default; system-level threads are to be created via some
16:09 svnbot6 r14544 | audreyt++ |   other mechanism.
16:09 svnbot6 r14544 | audreyt++ | * Pugs.Prim: Allow sleep for fractional seconds.
16:09 svnbot6 r14545 | audreyt++ | * util/build_pugs.pl: "make prof" doesn't work on threaded
16:09 svnbot6 r14545 | audreyt++ |   runtime, so disable -threaded when building profiled.
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16:21 rindolf Man! It takes a helluva long time to build ghc.
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16:54 Debolaz Can perl 5 modules be used for inheritance, or are you merely able to 'use' them?
16:58 audreyt Debolaz: they are not yet integrated into the metaobject model
16:58 audreyt so currently no, but I'll keep that req in mind this weekend working with cmarcelo on MOH
16:58 audreyt there's nothing preventing them from being inherited, it's just SMOP :)
16:59 Debolaz Ah.
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16:59 * Debolaz tried using DBIx::Class. :-)
16:59 rindolf audreyt: what's SMOP?
16:59 Debolaz It's probably a good thing (tm) if that works at some point.
17:00 rindolf audreyt: hi, BTW.
17:00 Debolaz rindolf: Some Matter of Programming.
17:00 Debolaz s/of/Of/
17:00 audreyt *Simple
17:01 Debolaz Yes, that.
17:01 Debolaz :)
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17:06 Debolaz Still trying to find a project to use perl 6 for. It can't be something big and important, but it should be something I need. :/
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17:10 audreyt nodnod
17:10 audreyt to be honest 90% of my use of pugs at this point is one-off scripting
17:10 audreyt that involves a lot of =$=DATA and .comb and the sorts
17:11 nothingmuch .hairgel
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17:15 rindolf Hi nothingmuch
17:15 rindolf I can't believe it! I built ghc for the third time and Pugs still isn't happy.
17:18 * audreyt goes catch up sleeping...
17:22 nothingmuch hi rindolf
17:24 integral what's it this time?
17:25 * Debolaz ponders if O'Reilly even bothered to test their Safari Books system with Opera.
17:31 Debolaz I take that back, I can't get it to work properly in any browser.
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17:33 Patterner lynx?
17:37 rindolf integral: the %setup macro unpacked -extra-libs into the wrong directory. (ghc-6.6/ghc-6.6/ instead of ghc-6.6/). I fixed it now.
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17:39 integral ah
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19:39 TSa HaloO
19:44 rindolf Hi TSa
19:46 integral hmm, anyone had any luck with profiling pugs?  I've just run a "pugs-prof examples/mandel.pl" but the pugs-prof.prof file is 0 length :-/
19:49 TSa HaloO rindolf
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20:08 rindolf Yay! I finished building ghc.
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20:20 xie Hi, I'm wondering if it's possible to use Perl 6 rules from Pugs without Parrot
20:23 integral afaik know the current version uses the perl5 implementation by default
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20:28 xie Hmm, I'm running with #!/usr/local/bin/pugs
20:28 xie use v6;
20:29 xie and I get the error *** Cannot parse PGE: ^\-?\d?\.?\d+$
20:29 xie *** Error: Cannot find the parrot executable in PATH
20:30 integral oh, hum.
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20:46 integral hrm, what's the difference between the Val type from Pugs.AST.Internals and Pugs.Val?  Is the latter a new one that needs transitioned to still?
20:48 * integral wonders why op2Numeric uses pattern guards instead of normal pattern matches
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21:54 eviltwin_b d'oh!  missed fromEnum somehow.  code is much cleaner suddenly.
21:58 eviltwin_b but still have a bit of a problem.  need to wait for this test run to finish (*sigh* svn oddness) to put diffs up somewhere for reference
22:00 eviltwin_b pugs uses ClockTime, stat times are EpochTime, I'm not sure they're guaranteed to be related.  so $*BASETIME is an EpochTime instead of a ClockTime
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22:10 eviltwin_b (obviously on unixlike systems they're related, one is gettimeofday() and the other is time().  no clue about e.g. win32)
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