Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2006-11-07

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 audreyt TimToady: so the sequence is actually
00:00 audreyt BUILDALL -> BUILD/CREATE -> BUILD/CREATE -> BUILD/CREATE
00:00 audreyt to agree with what we've said above
00:01 audreyt otoh, maybe CREATE can have knowledge of all attributes of derived classes, and "mask" the irrelevant parts
00:02 audreyt so it's  CREATE -> BUILDALL -> BUILD (part of the layout invisible) -> BUILD -> ...
00:02 audreyt that however means all intermediate classes can share one single layout
00:02 audreyt which is probably not the case for cross language classes.
00:02 TimToady the layouts have to negotiate that...
00:02 TimToady generally by not negotiating it...
00:03 audreyt hmm?
00:03 TimToady to the first approximation, shared repr is only possible within a given layout
00:03 TimToady different reprs are assumed to delegate instead
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00:04 TimToady meeting, so I'll be a bit distracted...
00:04 audreyt but then itneeds to fire CREATE multiple times
00:04 audreyt i.e. the first BUILD/CREATE strategy above
00:04 audreyt otherwise deleegation can't be setup
00:05 TimToady presuming that outermost CREATE knows everything that needs to be done.
00:05 audreyt actually each stage of CREATE is a simple layout-compat test
00:05 audreyt if compt, merge
00:06 audreyt if not, setup delegation
00:06 audreyt either way, go to next BUILD
00:06 audreyt and so on
00:08 audreyt otoh, if outermost CREATE knows everything, then it can just create one single candidate that has the neccessary heterogenous layout
00:08 audreyt CREATE (CREATE+CREATE+CREATE) -> BUILDALL -> BUILD (part of layout invisible) -> BUILD -> BUILD ...
00:08 audreyt I guess I like it more.
00:08 * audreyt codes it up
00:10 audreyt another thought is to not have this very special recursion
00:10 audreyt and instead have simply a CREATEALL.
00:10 audreyt CREATEALL (CREATE+CREATE+CREATE) -> ...
00:10 audreyt so each CREATE only cares about the private atts
00:10 audreyt and CREATEALL cares about superclasses's layouts
00:10 audreyt that seems to make a lot more sense.
00:13 TimToady but in that case BUILDALL can probably do it.  CREATE is just a preBUILDALL hook.
00:14 audreyt hm, but that means user-defined BUILDALL has to do a lot.
00:15 audreyt instead of only reordering the calls
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00:33 audreyt cmarcelo: ivResponderInterface = class_interface base :: MethodTable Maybe is bogus
00:33 audreyt I'll take away the ::. :)
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00:36 cmarcelo audreyt: ok. it is bogus indeed, but at some point the compiler (or my interpretation of it) was claiming this so I did it :o)
00:36 audreyt the compiler is claiming it because you didn't do the AnyResponder abstraction :)
00:36 audreyt tsktsk :)
00:36 audreyt (you should've seen the same claim for AnyClass also)
00:37 audreyt the idea is that the object has a AnyResponder
00:37 audreyt so it only existentially quantify the payload
00:37 audreyt the responder interface has nothing to do with the type of payload (ivInvocant)
00:37 audreyt so it cna be encapsulated safely
00:37 audreyt and that makes the explicit ::MethodTable go away
00:40 cmarcelo I see.. well I was lazy, when this classes appeared I was hoping to have a better solution than AnyMoose, so patched up this ::MT's..
00:40 audreyt *nod* though AnyMoose is clearly the way to go now :)
00:44 cmarcelo rolling back to the layout discussion, when bless({x=>1}), the "layout" used will be Hash instead of P6opaque { ... }, and when using a Ruby object there'll be an ForeignObject { .. }, or these are different beasts?
00:44 audreyt that is correct
00:45 audreyt and the key conclusion of the discussion above is that you can inherit from a ruby object
00:45 audreyt and your CREATEALL (or, TimToady thinks BUILDALL last I checked) knows about it
00:45 audreyt so it delegates to the ruby bridge's CREAGE
00:45 audreyt CREATE
00:45 audreyt which creates a delegation
00:46 TimToady CREATE either has to allocate the slots or at least a handler slot for delegation
00:46 audreyt TimToady: but I think we need something to allocate private-slots only
00:46 TimToady I'd just like to avoid crawling the inheritance tree many times.
00:46 audreyt which is relevant if the class want  One Specific Layout
00:47 audreyt but BUILD is usually undefined
00:47 audreyt and CREATE don't need to be fired if layouts are known to be compatible
00:47 audreyt i.e. if it's known in CREATEALL that things can be shared, it only calls one CREATE
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00:47 audreyt (which is another reason for the CREATEALL abstraction outside BUILDALL...)
00:48 audreyt but I'm not 100% sure yet myself. I think I'll just code it up and see how it smells like :)
00:48 TimToady I think CREATEALL is called "bless"
00:49 audreyt ...point.
00:49 TimToady maybe CREATE nullifies all the classes it creates, and then bless looks to see what's left
00:49 audreyt can we rename it to BLESS? :)
00:50 TimToady looks too much like BLAST!
00:50 audreyt (considering it's almost always autotriggered)
00:50 audreyt never mind... "bless" is fine
00:50 audreyt I jsut effectively murdered "new", we need at least one lowercase entry point :)
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00:51 weinig is now known as weinig|food
00:52 TimToady and people may use new-less bless in P6 much like they do in P5.
00:52 TimToady at least for hashes
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00:53 audreyt I wonder if blessing arrays automagically works...
00:53 audreyt (ordering of attr is known.)
00:53 TimToady If you wonder, then it probably doesn't.  :)
00:53 audreyt or if it's too tricky to be allowed this way
00:53 * audreyt forsees painful bounds checking
00:53 audreyt never mind then :)
00:54 weinig is now known as weinig|food
00:56 cmarcelo audreyt: (/me reverse backlogging) using mono as runtime means some kind of PIL -> mono_byte_code?
00:57 audreyt cmarcelo: yes, but more importantly a runtime on mono that implements the MOP bridges
00:57 audreyt i.e. all our builtin objects (Scalar, Array, Class) must be encoded as native CLR objects
00:57 audreyt emeijer has suggested an encoding that works for Class
00:57 audreyt which was the hardest part
00:57 audreyt but the other ones need to be modeled as well
00:57 audreyt PIL itself is trivial.
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01:02 cmarcelo audreyt: (Test.pm.yml is PIL serialized into yaml, right?).. I see.. but if they don't support something in CLR, e.g. MI, how's that possible? or the abstraction is lower?
01:03 audreyt the abstraction is lower.
01:03 audreyt the encoding is essentially to let metaclass control dispatch
01:03 audreyt not let VM handle it
01:04 audreyt if it's deemed to be incompatible with CLR's SI
01:04 audreyt we do it with a ProxyObjectDelegate
01:04 audreyt originally used for remoting
01:04 audreyt but can be used in-process as well
01:04 audreyt it lets an object control the complete dispatch for another object
01:04 audreyt which corresponds to AnyResponder
01:04 audreyt i.e. if we
01:04 audreyt instance ResponderInterface m (Invocant m)
01:05 audreyt then we also have that capability.
01:05 audreyt (am I making sense to you?)
01:07 cmarcelo actually, I got the workaround (let object control dispatch), but not the first option (letting meta control dispatch).. you mean their (CLR?) metaclass structure deal with our dispatch, if not possible, fallback to workaround..?
01:08 audreyt metaclass is just an object. :)
01:09 audreyt p6-metaclass controls the dispatch if needed
01:09 audreyt use native dispatch if possible
01:09 TimToady it's unlikely that their dispatcher will respond to "next METHOD"
01:09 audreyt correct, though if we are compiled closed/static
01:09 audreyt then we can know places where next METHOD will always not make sense.
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01:10 TimToady or if we use "hides" inheritance
01:10 audreyt in which case those classes can effectly become Mono structs
01:10 audreyt fortunately it seems the obj-control-dispatch, as long as that obj itself does not get proxied again, is very fast.
01:11 audreyt that amounts to not let people augment ::Class at runtime.
01:11 audreyt I'm willing to live with that when targetting mono :)
01:11 TimToady certainly these things should be negotiable
01:12 audreyt at some point something's gotta be nonaugmentable...
01:12 TimToady nonnegotiable is one of the things that's negotiable.  :)
01:12 audreyt :D
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01:12 TimToady use Perl#;
01:13 eggzeck Perl#?
01:13 audreyt TimToady: how is "submethod BUILD" different from "my method BUILD"?
01:13 audreyt oh, because you can't do $obj!*BUILD.
01:13 audreyt never mind, got it.
01:14 audreyt it neeeds to be made visible publicly but get dispatched privately.
01:14 TimToady nod
01:14 audreyt if someone defines "method BUILD" then very curious results will ensue...
01:15 audreyt namely derived chain calls it over and over again
01:15 TimToady one would presumably write it to derive class-specific info from somewhere else.
01:15 TimToady so it does different things when called on behalf of different classes
01:16 TimToady if there's a default Object::BUILD it works like that.
01:16 TimToady but probably autogenning BUILD for each class is more efficient
01:17 TimToady we could, however, make "method BUILD" barf by default.
01:18 TimToady lexical compiler warning, maybe
01:19 audreyt or metaclass object creation time warning.
01:19 TimToady mabye $.x vs $!x in submethod is a similar warning.
01:19 audreyt aka composition time
01:19 TimToady no warn "IKnowWhatIAmDoingDarnIt!";
01:19 audreyt seems to make more sense for a special-name-avoidance thing
01:20 audreyt *nod*
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01:23 audreyt cmarcelo: perl6 classes has this curious property: there's no separate classMethods and instanceMethods slots.
01:24 audreyt so I'm merging them...
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01:28 audreyt ditto roles.
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01:28 cmarcelo fine. but how are calls to accessors in classes are dealt?
01:29 cmarcelo re roles: how so?
01:29 audreyt calls to accessors always read from layout
01:29 audreyt it happens that the class prototype has a layout that fails on any access.
01:30 audreyt Point.x # fails
01:30 audreyt but that is only beause ::Point is allocated a NoLayout layout.
01:32 cmarcelo ok. and (obviously) merge them in roles too you mean...
01:32 audreyt yes but not bothering to do that tonight...
01:32 audreyt need to finish CREATE fist
01:32 audreyt first
01:32 audreyt but maybe I just checkin :)
01:33 audreyt adding http://perlcabal.org/~audreyt/tmp/for-cmarcelo-3  to Pugs.
01:33 lambdabot http://tinyurl.com/y2sndd
01:35 cmarcelo cool
01:39 audreyt it's in.
01:40 audreyt will give 6.4-compatbility a tiny try tomorrow
01:40 audreyt or you can do it
01:40 svnbot6 r14664 | audreyt++ | * Initial check in of the Haskell implementation of MO system.
01:40 svnbot6 r14664 | audreyt++ |     Design: nothingmuch++
01:40 svnbot6 r14664 | audreyt++ |             (with help from stevan++ and #moose)
01:40 svnbot6 r14664 | audreyt++ |     Implementation: cmarcelo++
01:40 svnbot6 r14664 | audreyt++ |                     (with help from audrey++ and #perl6)
01:40 svnbot6 r14664 | audreyt++ |   It's reasonably complete now, with attributes, accessors,
01:40 svnbot6 r14664 | audreyt++ |   multiple inheritance, C3, full introspection, role composition
01:40 svnbot6 r14664 | audreyt++ |   and conflict detection, autoboxing of native Haskell objects,
01:40 svnbot6 r14664 | audreyt++ |   as well as the ability with all three of our Eval-monad runlevels
01:40 svnbot6 r14664 | audreyt++ |   (Pure, STM, IO).
01:40 svnbot6 r14664 | audreyt++ |   Too late tonight to hook it up with Pugs.AST and Pugs.Val now,
01:40 audreyt namely making existential records into positional
01:40 svnbot6 r14664 | audreyt++ |   but stay tuned...
01:40 audreyt but if that alone doesn't do it, then we give up on 6.4 and mandate GHC 6.6.
01:41 audreyt cmarcelo++ nothingmuch++ # for making 6.28 possible
01:41 audreyt Pugs 6.28, that is :)
01:42 cmarcelo audreyt: ok, I could try that tomorrow night..
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01:44 audreyt cool. and I really shouuld blog about all those things (MP6, full bootstrap plan, native rules engine, native MO system...)
01:45 audreyt but sleep first.
01:45 audreyt see you tomorrow :) *wave*
01:45 cmarcelo yes blog! because "anarchy only works w/ communication" :)
01:45 cmarcelo s/s b/s, b/
01:45 audreyt or maybe _you_ write about it :)
01:46 audreyt you did 90% of the work anyway...
01:46 audreyt you have a blog bit, too :)
01:46 cmarcelo (you know more about how it integrates with the whole) :P
01:47 audreyt but you claimed you grokked the plan... :)
01:47 audreyt in any case, would be nice if you can writeup something, but don't feel too pressured.
01:47 audreyt I seriously need to sleep :) till tomorrow... *wave*
01:48 cmarcelo hehe I'll think about it... well, I have to go sleep too.. bye! &
01:48 cmarcelo left perl6
01:48 audreyt nothingmuch: you have a blog bit too :)
01:49 audreyt &
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02:29 eviltwin_b hm.  well, I definitely know where the filetest parse issue is coming from.  but I have no idea what to do about it given the kluge contained therein
02:32 eviltwin_b short version:  "-" gets parsed before the filetest ops do, with @symbol@ so it consumes trailing @whiteSpace@.  then there's a hack to check if it's actually a filetest op, due to something about precedence (which *may* in fact be an attempt to hack around "-" being seen before the filetest ops, but I'm not certain)
02:33 eviltwin_b if it is, I can fix it easily enough, I think.  but the comment on the filetest-op check mystifies me
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03:23 * eviltwin_b is trying the hack, with the previous kluge disabled, to see if it breaks parsing --- hopefuly there are tests in the tree for whatever triggered the old kluge
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03:56 eviltwin_b testing...
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03:59 eviltwin_b d'oh, forgot trailing whitespace.  try, try again
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05:01 eviltwin_b hm, that was a pretty braindead thinko.  but I think I might have it now.
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07:06 svnbot6 r14665 | jesse++ | * "Differences from Perl6" didn't make sense in context. Relabeled the
07:06 svnbot6 r14665 | jesse++ |   doc section to "Differences from Perl 5"
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10:46 svnbot6 r14666 | kudra++ | Summary from last week; commit failed on Sunday
10:49 svnbot6 r14667 | kudra++ | Placeholder
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12:04 svnbot6 r14668 | fglock++ | * MP6
12:04 svnbot6 r14668 | fglock++ | - implemented MP6::G::Regex::rule()
12:04 svnbot6 r14668 | fglock++ | - /<%hash>/
12:04 svnbot6 r14668 | fglock++ | - /const|const/
12:04 svnbot6 r14668 | fglock++ | - /<subrule>/
12:04 svnbot6 r14668 | fglock++ | - /<'xyz'>/
12:04 svnbot6 r14668 | fglock++ | - /\n/
12:04 svnbot6 r14668 | fglock++ | * v6 - added more runtime methods
12:07 fglock the Token -> MP6 compiler mostly works now
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12:26 fglock MP6 now needs a Runtime
12:31 fglock it needs Match, infix:<+>, substr, m:P5//, <ws>, <alpha>, <digit> - I guess that's all
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12:34 dmq neat
12:35 gaal nothingmuch: ping
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12:43 xinming_ fglock: Do you mean MP6 is almost finished? >_<
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12:55 Limbic_Region http://use.perl.org/~acme/journal/31531
12:55 lambdabot Title: Journal of acme (189)
12:55 Limbic_Region "Of course, you really want to see the opcodes - hey, it's real bytecode. Now how long will it be until Pugs targets Tamarin directly?"
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13:06 fglock xinming_: no, it will still take a few days to finish
13:07 fglock it has been hard to debug it
13:08 fglock Limbic_Region: re Tamarin - just write an emitter :)
13:10 Limbic_Region fglock - yeah sure, I will do that on my lunch break
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13:15 svnbot6 r14669 | fglock++ | * MP6 - '/' can end a regex
13:16 fglock Limbic_Region: v6-MiniPerl6/lib/MiniPerl6/Emitter.pm - you can save it to Emitter/Tamarin.pm
13:18 gaal moose. has the sv? repo moved yet?
13:19 fglock gaal: I think not
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13:43 svnbot6 r14670 | fglock++ | * MP6 - start integrating the Regex subcompiler into the main grammar
13:52 audreyt gaal: scheduled in ~12hr from now. if I got too tired watching FIFA beach soccer world cup then 36hr from now
13:52 audreyt but I think 12hr is correct.
13:58 audreyt oh hey! the JS2 VM promised by brendan is finally here!
13:58 gaal okay, thanks. I've been too out of things lately :(
13:59 audreyt we can finally target JS without massive pain and performance penalty!
13:59 audreyt mozilla++
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13:59 audreyt tamarin++
14:00 audreyt a JITing JS2 VM
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14:27 nnunley Wow. JS2 is out?
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15:35 svnbot6 r14671 | fglock++ | MP6 - intermediate regex compilation finished...
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15:57 GabrielVieira fglock go sleep a little, please :P
15:57 fglock Gabriel: how was the trip back?
15:58 fglock is openfoundry down again?
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15:59 fglock audreyt: MP6 can now compile token{...} - only needs a few tweaks (but I can't commit)
15:59 clkao why can't you commit?
15:59 fglock could be bootstrapped today
16:00 fglock clkao: I can't ping openfoundry
16:00 fglock clkao: what is the svk command to do a local ci ?
16:01 clkao fglock: svk cp //mirror/pugs //local/pugs; svk sw //local/pugs
16:01 clkao then you can just commit
16:01 clkao (assuming //mirror/pugs is your current checkout)
16:04 GabrielVieira wow
16:04 GabrielVieira let me read this
16:05 GabrielVieira fglock was really nice... and fast. I had no problem to come back :)
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16:31 nothingmuch autark_: i don't really uinderstand larry's rulings from your line (haven't backlogged yet)
16:31 nothingmuch err
16:32 nothingmuch audreyt: bah
16:32 nothingmuch why is the tab completion not in lexical order =/
16:32 nothingmuch anymoose
16:32 nothingmuch as far as I'm concerned Class/Role/* etc are entirely flexible
16:32 nothingmuch that is Perl 6 should come with some default ones
16:32 nothingmuch that adhere to @Larry's design
16:33 nothingmuch if possible we refactor them so that this base set of metaclasses is made out of reusable components
16:33 nothingmuch (more on that in the coming wekks, i guess)
16:34 nothingmuch fwiw what I sketched up was a bit of moose and a lot of perl 6 but by no means anything definite
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17:07 audreyt sure
17:07 audreyt 17:33 < nothingmuch> if possible we refactor them so that this base set of metaclasses is made out of reusable components
17:07 audreyt and that's a good plan.
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17:12 fglock audreyt: MP6 is nearly ready to parse itself
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17:28 audreyt fglock++ # woot
17:28 audreyt openfoundry seems to work here
17:31 fglock I can't ping it - is it 140.109.17.109 ?
17:32 TimToady yes
17:32 Limbic_Region pinging isn't always a good indication of availability
17:33 Limbic_Region ICMP may be disabled where as TCP port 80 or 443 may be enabled
17:33 fglock trying again
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17:37 fglock no luck
17:37 audreyt :/
17:37 Gothmog_ What does nmap say?
17:37 audreyt ok, that increased priority of the move
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17:38 clkao audreyt: let's do it
17:38 clkao do you have uptodate mirror?
17:38 clkao dump the revs with pullyu -r
17:39 audreyt I have uptodate mirror
17:39 audreyt do I need to redump everything?
17:40 audreyt I thought you had something on feather that you can just sync.
17:40 clkao no
17:40 clkao sync from where?
17:41 clkao audreyt: you need to dump the revs i don't have on feather
17:42 GnuVince Good day everyone
17:42 clkao audreyt: pullyu -r14582@:HEAD ~/.svk/local /mirror/pugs
17:43 fglock brb
17:44 TimToady is there some way to make openfoundry ro so we don't get conflicting checkins?
17:44 audreyt Can't locate SVN/Dump.pm
17:44 audreyt unlisted dependency, fun
17:44 audreyt TimToady: yes, openfoundry has a knob
17:44 audreyt but the webui is currenly down
17:44 audreyt so I can't flip it
17:44 audreyt otoh, that also means commits can't ge through
17:44 audreyt so it's essentially RO ;)
17:45 TimToady and middle of the night there...
17:45 TimToady so unlikely to change
17:45 TimToady if history is any guide...
17:45 clkao audreyt: also you need 0.02 svn::dump. at the time it wasn't released
17:46 [particle] what happens, does the gerbil fall asleep and stop running the wheel that powers the net connection?
17:46 clkao you can poison the svn.openfoundry.org dns though
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17:46 TimToady that sounds antisocial
17:47 clkao audreyt: wait a sec, 0.02 has incompat api
17:47 clkao change
17:47 audreyt yeah, that kills all other openfoundry projects
17:47 audreyt clkao: mmm software! point me a tarball please.
17:47 audreyt make me one with everything (to install)
17:47 hexmode left perl6
17:47 clkao the one on cpan. but i am going to test this shit
17:47 hexmode` left perl6
17:53 clkao audreyt: ENOBRAINPOWER. get 0.01 and apply my patch: http://rt.cpan.org/Public/​Bug/Display.html?id=22429
17:53 clkao i hate software
17:53 audreyt thanks for your instruction :)
17:53 lambdabot Title: #22429: Allowing reading from fh, http://tinyurl.com/vb9vu
17:54 * obra loves how ENOBRAINPOWER matches ~[6~[6~[6~[6~his irc nick
17:54 fglock :)
17:55 audreyt En Obra In Power
17:55 TimToady is there an easy way to use "svn lock" to lock everything, or do you have to feed it all the names?
17:55 TimToady or would that fail right now too?
17:55 audreyt lock locks subtree.
17:56 audreyt but svn.openfoundry.org uses a subrequest to the website for auth
17:56 audreyt so when website is down, auth always fail.
17:56 TimToady *nod*
17:56 clkao orafu: hahaaa
17:56 clkao obra: haha
17:57 * audreyt welcome our new obra-in-power overlords
17:57 ludan joined perl6
17:57 audreyt clkao: is 1.4.0 binding fine for svk on feather
17:57 audreyt or would you require some sort of trunk svn?
17:58 obra audreyt: that would be the commitbit
17:58 fglock [OT] any good reference on connecting to Windows shares from OSX?
17:58 audreyt fglock: simply click on finder, then press apple-k
17:58 clkao audreyt: you want 1.4.2
17:58 audreyt or on the menu, "go" "connect to server"
17:58 clkao audreyt: well, depends on what you want to do on feather
17:59 audreyt clkao: commitbit + webdav
17:59 clkao it doesn't need 1.4.2 if you are just being the master. pushmi would require 1.4.2
17:59 clkao as slave
17:59 audreyt ok. curiously the latest release is 1.4.0
17:59 audreyt are they going to skip 1.4.1 or something?
17:59 clkao audreyt: also if you have 1.4.2 and use svkmirror-pipeline branch, mirroring is superfast
17:59 clkao yes
17:59 clkao 1.4.2 is rolled
17:59 clkao it's in the collab download directory
17:59 clkao not announced yet
18:00 buetow joined perl6
18:01 audreyt clkao: 1.4.2 on server+client?
18:01 audreyt or just client?
18:01 clkao client
18:01 audreyt oh. so 1.4.0 on server is sufficient
18:02 audreyt for the time being. ok
18:02 clkao yep
18:03 audreyt running pullyu...
18:04 loumz joined perl6
18:07 audreyt clkao: ~audreyt/worktmp/delta-moose
18:07 audreyt now what?
18:07 audreyt commitbit first, or moddav_svn?
18:08 TimToady um, openfoundry seems to have come up
18:08 TimToady I got the admin page, anyway...
18:09 audreyt really? I didn't
18:09 clkao audreyt: dav_svn first
18:09 audreyt TimToady: if you got the admin page please click on the "version control" tab and switch to read-only
18:09 clkao audreyt: ~clkao/pugs.repo is uptodate
18:10 clkao technology++
18:10 audreyt clkao: ok. let me put it to var
18:10 clkao computer: 您需要一個休息
18:10 * audreyt gives clkao a ^C
18:11 TimToady I do not see such a button
18:12 audreyt clkao: er feather is running apache 1.3
18:12 * audreyt ponders what to do
18:12 TimToady perhaps a mere admin is not so privileged...
18:12 TimToady maybe I can lock it
18:12 justatheory joined perl6
18:14 audreyt please lock it then
18:14 clkao that means you didn't compile the 1.4 with dav_svn anymoose
18:15 audreyt there's apache2
18:15 audreyt just not runnning
18:15 clkao ah
18:15 audreyt maybe I can have ap1 proxy to ap2 on another port
18:15 audreyt sec
18:15 * audreyt remember she has done this ~5 times on openfoundry
18:16 clkao what's the apache1 doing?
18:16 audreyt cgi-irc
18:16 audreyt squirrelmail
18:16 jrockway svnserve?
18:16 clkao modperl invovled?
18:16 jrockway that's how I cope with svn+apache1
18:16 audreyt svnserve is not linkable
18:16 audreyt we despreately want http://
18:16 jrockway true, true
18:17 jrockway SVN::Web, maybe?
18:17 fglock audreyt: apple-k worked, but i get ".. one or more required items cannot be found Error code -43" - is this related to the sudo problem?
18:17 audreyt fglock: no, I fixed the sudo problem
18:17 audreyt I don't know :/
18:17 audreyt fglock: try mounting FTP?
18:18 fglock ok
18:19 fglock audreyt: did mk find you?
18:20 audreyt fglock: she mailed me and gave me time+place to meet tomorrow
18:20 fglock nice
18:22 audreyt clkao: in download area I don't see 1.4.2 tarball
18:22 audreyt oh nvm
18:22 clkao http://subversion.tigris.org/downloads/
18:23 * audreyt found http://www.red-bean.com/maxb/svnr​m/1.4.2/subversion-1.4.2.tar.bz2
18:23 Limbic_Region two smart chicks in one place - every geek's fantasy
18:23 lambdabot http://tinyurl.com/wd9m4
18:23 TimToady okay, I think I switch rt.openfoundry.org to readonly by telling it to use svn.openfoundry.org/perl6 as its remote RO repo
18:24 TimToady It does seem to prevent checkins, anyway...
18:24 clkao TimToady++
18:24 TimToady later we can make it remote to feather
18:24 audreyt very nice
18:25 elmex i've problems with pugs, Makefile.PL doesn't find 'ghc' but i've installed ghc-6.5, but it isn't 'ghc' in PATH. can i tell the pugs Makefile.PL somehow to use 'ghc-6.5'  ?
18:25 clkao TimToady: the last is r14671 ?
18:25 TimToady couldn't get it to lock the top dir though...
18:25 TimToady yes, r14671
18:25 Limbic_Region elmex - I use ghc-6.5 without a problem
18:25 audreyt elmex: export GHC=/path/to/moose
18:25 clkao audreyt: tell openfoundry they need to install pushmi
18:25 TimToady whenever I tried "svn lock ." in pugs it said it couldn't lock my home dir.  seems like a bug
18:25 audreyt clkao: I don't know anytihing about pushmi, so how about you tell it.
18:26 Limbic_Region elmex - the executable itself isn't called ghc.exe ?
18:26 clkao audreyt: i will put it on bps-public after dinner
18:26 elmex Limbic_Region: i'm on GNU/Linux (on a amd64)
18:26 Limbic_Region or just ghc on a *nix platform
18:26 elmex Limbic_Region: .exe file endings are uncommon on that platform
18:26 Limbic_Region my question is - is it a PATH issue or is it executable name issue
18:27 Limbic_Region if it is a PATH issue, then it should be simple to solve
18:27 Limbic_Region if ghc the executable doesn't exist it may be more of a problem
18:27 audreyt Limbic_Region: ghc-6.5 on win32 is still called ghc.exe
18:27 elmex Limbic_Region: i guess the issue is just that 'ghc-6.5' ne 'ghc'
18:27 audreyt if you rename ghc-6.5.exe on win32 then it will still fail to probe
18:27 Limbic_Region audreyt - I know, and it works great - which is why I am confused
18:27 Limbic_Region audreyt - I know that too
18:28 Limbic_Region audreyt - that's why I was trying to acertain if elmex had changed the executable name
18:28 audreyt changes topic to: Repository Switch In Process - Commits Temporarily Disabled | run.pugscode.org | spec.pugscode.org | paste: http://sial.org/pbot/perl6 | pugs.blogs.com
18:28 audreyt ah. ok
18:28 elmex ah :)
18:28 Limbic_Region elmex - as part of a path name, it shouldn't matter
18:28 Limbic_Region as part of the executable name it will
18:29 ashleyb fglock: is miniP6 going to obsolete P::C::Rule?  I've found some more bugs, are you interested in tests?
18:30 audreyt nothing will ever obsolete tests :)
18:30 ashleyb yes but the tests are p5 tests.
18:30 audreyt PCR will remain a perl5 module.
18:31 audreyt emitted-to-p5 module, that is :)
18:31 audreyt i.e. interface should stay
18:31 ashleyb true, but is development going to be discontinued?
18:31 ashleyb ok
18:31 elmex where can i read about applying the tests in t/ to a dofferent perl6 implementation than pugs?
18:31 audreyt elmex: "make test-perl5" does that
18:31 elmex ah, ok
18:31 elmex thanks
18:32 audreyt clkao: did you take care to make uuid agree with upstream?
18:32 audreyt in pugs.repo that is
18:33 clkao yes
18:33 clkao pullyu does that automagically
18:33 clkao it's design to reproduce the original repository
18:33 fglock ashleyb: yes, tests are good!
18:34 ashleyb cool..
18:34 fglock PCR is only going to be obsoleted if MP6 works really well :)
18:35 TimToady so far it's just a bunch of MP promises... <ducks>
18:37 audreyt indeed, before te emitter+runtime really works, it amounts to a bunch of AST floating above the cloud :)
18:38 [particle] is it MP-complete yet?
18:39 TimToady no, but it's looking pretty 6y.
18:39 Limbic_Region [particle] - no, just MP-hard
18:40 TimToady Any ETA on the new Rushing Featheration?
18:41 audreyt the repo is converted. I'm setting up dav
18:41 audreyt read-only access expected to be restored in <30min
18:41 audreyt then it's setting up commitbit
18:42 audreyt and resend all the invications
18:42 todd- joined perl6
18:42 audreyt that can take another hour or so.
18:42 TimToady "I'm sorry Dav, I can't allow you to do that..."
18:42 audreyt fortunately it's not even 5pm here
18:42 fglock audreyt: re error -43 - I was typing the wrong share name :P everything i fine now
18:42 TimToady k, guess I'll go take a cold shower...
18:43 fglock is
18:51 vel joined perl6
18:58 vel joined perl6
19:02 audreyt dav installed. proxy installed.
19:02 audreyt just a sec...
19:03 eggzeck joined perl6
19:07 GnuVince audreyt: I want to buy a few items from cafepress.com/pugscode.  Does the money go to you?
19:09 audreyt GnuVince: they do
19:10 pasteling "fglock" at 200.17.89.88 pasted "intermediate compilation of token{abc} to MP6" (4 lines, 335B) at http://sial.org/pbot/20952
19:11 GnuVince audreyt: I'll throw in an extra mug then :)
19:12 audreyt :D
19:12 fglock joined perl6
19:12 * audreyt finds debian surprisingly sane despite never havingu used it
19:13 clkao most OS still alive are sane to some extend...
19:13 audreyt *cough* AIX
19:13 rindolf joined perl6
19:14 rindolf Hi all.
19:14 rindolf What, no committs????!
19:14 clkao how about you try committing
19:14 audreyt rindolf: relocating to a server that won't shut down two days per week
19:14 rindolf clkao: I don't have anything to commit.
19:14 audreyt clkao: should I simply Include the .conf written by commitbit?
19:14 clkao yes
19:14 rindolf audreyt: where is this server going to be located?
19:14 fglock audreyt: see nopaste - now parsing "method"; after that I'd like some help to make it sane :)
19:15 clkao audreyt: it should have the authz etc all set for you
19:15 ingy AIX was dead 15 years ago
19:15 clkao ingy!
19:16 ingy hi clkao!
19:16 audreyt ingy: that makes it a long-lived undead
19:16 clkao how are you!
19:16 audreyt aka -- lich!
19:16 audreyt ungratefaul undead operating systems...
19:16 * ingy is surprised at being greeted with excitement from cl
19:16 ingy clkao: I am pretty well. where are you today?
19:17 clkao london, baby
19:17 ingy going to Taiwan any time soon?
19:17 clkao next month
19:17 ingy how long?
19:18 clkao dunno
19:18 ingy I'd like to flatshare some time with someone in .tw for a month or so...
19:19 pasteling "ashleyb" at 66.201.51.66 pasted "PCR tests (for fglock) -- variations on a theme: more hanging tests (and some similar ones that pass)..." (42 lines, 929B) at http://sial.org/pbot/20953
19:19 ingy but that thought is vague and noncommital at this point
19:19 audreyt clkao: commitbit sets up both authz and basic auth.
19:19 audreyt correct?
19:20 clkao audreyt: yep
19:22 fglock ashleyb: thanks!
19:23 rindolf Hi ingy
19:24 audreyt trying svk mi --relocate
19:26 clkao where to?
19:28 mosca joined perl6
19:32 GabrielVieira joined perl6
19:33 TimToady 'course, it's possible the jinx will now be transferred from openfoundry to feather...
19:34 audreyt clkao: weird, PROPFIND still doesn't seem to be proxied
19:34 audreyt GET etc is fine
19:35 clkao iirc you need to speicfy what methods you want to proxy
19:35 clkao it's a bit painful
19:35 clkao how about put apache2 at 80 and proxy the apache1 stuff
19:36 audreyt clkao: can you find the relevant conf a bit?
19:36 * audreyt is googling but doesn't seem to yet turn up things
19:37 clkao h6w ab64t 4se -er3ba3
19:37 obra to proxypass all methods from an apache1 to apache2?
19:37 clkao how about use perlbal ;p
19:37 audreyt obra: yes
19:37 obra hang on.
19:37 audreyt clkao: stop introducing new complexities please :)
19:38 clkao it's already included in pushmi :P
19:39 clkao audreyt: trailing slash for your Proxy command?
19:39 obra    ProxyPass /svk http://localhost:8800/svk
19:39 obra    ProxyPassReverse /svk http://localhost:8800/svk
19:39 obra actually works for me
19:40 obra I don't have special Limit or LimitExcept lines
19:40 audreyt a sec.
19:42 fglock joined perl6
19:42 audreyt and in 8800 it's <Location /svk>
19:42 audreyt not <Location /svk/> ?
19:43 obra loking
19:43 fglock home &
19:44 obra Location /svk
19:44 obra as generated by commitbit
19:44 obra (this is the commitbit-generated httpd.conf fragment)
19:44 audreyt it is the trailing slash.
19:44 audreyt clkao++ # entirely correct.
19:44 audreyt changing /pugs/ to /pugs solved it.
19:44 obra commitbit needs more magic to detect and fix slash issues.
19:45 audreyt it's actually Proxy layer :)
19:45 obra but first we'd need tuo understand what's right ;)
19:45 audreyt $ svk mi --relocate http://svn.pugscode.org/pugs/ /pugs/trunk
19:45 lambdabot Title: Revision 14671: /
19:45 audreyt Mirror relocated.
19:45 audreyt woot!
19:45 clkao :D
19:46 audreyt changes topic to: New Repository - http://svn.pugscode.org/pugs/ - Commit Bit Will Arrive By Mail Shortly | run.pugscdoe.org | spec.pugscode.org | paste: http://sial.org/pbot/perl6 | pugs.blogs.com
19:46 obra Retrieving log information from 10641 to 14671
19:46 clkao obra: you using pipeline?
19:46 obra clkao: nein. still on 1.40
19:46 audreyt TimToady: as it seems I can't access openfoundry, can you relocate its mirror when you next get cycle?
19:47 clkao i would be very surprised if openfoundry can be turned from master to a ro mirror of something
19:47 [particle] how do i change my wc to point to the new repo? (svn)
19:47 kolibrie audreyt: topic typo: run.pugscdoe.org
19:47 clkao svn sw --relocate OLD http://svn.pugscode.org/pugs/
19:47 lambdabot Title: Revision 14671: /
19:47 audreyt clkao: I hacked in that feature thank you very much :)
19:47 TimToady done
19:47 audreyt (to RT-Foundry)
19:48 [particle] clkao++
19:48 electrogeek joined perl6
19:48 obra audreyt: evil
19:49 audreyt obra: part of original spec
19:49 obra aw. no code.pugscode.org
19:49 audreyt it's commitbit.
19:49 TimToady hmm, now going through openfoundry I get (for svn up):
19:49 TimToady svn: REPORT request failed on '/pugs/!svn/vcc/default'
19:49 TimToady svn: No such revision 14671
19:49 audreyt not code.
19:49 obra *nod*
19:49 audreyt walking advertisemnt :)
19:49 obra Thanks :)
19:49 obra we need a logo
19:50 audreyt TimToady: wait a while for it to resync
19:50 integral yay, feather's much faster for me :)
19:51 audreyt glad to hear that!
19:51 audreyt now setting up commitbit.pugscode.org...
19:53 clkao audreyt: you might want to turn on compression as well
19:53 audreyt changes topic to: http://svn.pugscode.org/pugs/ - Commit Bit Will Arrive By Mail Shortly | run.pugscode.org spec.pugscode.org | paste: http://sial.org/pbot/perl6 | pugs.blogs.com
19:53 audreyt clkao: how do I do that?
19:54 obra enable mod_deflate in apache2
19:54 audreyt working on it
19:56 dmq timtoady: did you get a chance to consider the regex stuff I asked about yet?
19:56 audreyt will SetInputFilter DEFLATE also help?
19:58 GnuVince S03 mentions that the range operator doesn't do backward ranges.  What if there was an operator to do it?  I suggest inverting the dots to signify this intention ;-)
19:59 audreyt what a fabolous idea
19:59 audreyt so they will appear at top of the characte box
19:59 audreyt instead of at the bottom baseline
20:00 GnuVince ~(1..3) eq "1 2 3"; ~(3¨1) eq "3 2 1"
20:01 * Khisanth stabs GnuVince
20:01 Khisanth that looks like two specks of dust on the screen
20:03 obra audreyt: I haven't tried the SetInputFilter method
20:03 GnuVince Yeah, they're not very visible.  Not sure what the accent name is in english, but that's a "tréma" (french), the double-dots you put in the word Noël
20:04 GnuVince Khisanth: and fear not, I wasn't actually suggesting it.
20:06 audreyt gzip is on.
20:07 bernhard joined perl6
20:08 eviltwin_b "double-dot diacritical".  ("diaresis" technically refers to the meaning in French and English, not the symbol)
20:09 GnuVince eviltwin_b: Wow, thanks.  That's quite a mouthful.
20:09 audreyt clkao: pipeline branch:
20:09 audreyt RA layer request failed: REPORT request failed on 'http://svn.pugscode.org/pugs': REPORT of 'http://svn.pugscode.org/pugs': 400 Bad Request (http://svn.pugscode.org) at /opt/local/lib/perl5/site_perl/5​.8.8/SVK/Mirror/Backend/SVNRa.pm line 241.
20:10 audreyt hm wait. maybe my conf error
20:13 eviltwin_b as for operators:  keep .., as a symonym for .>. , then .<. can be the reverse
20:14 eviltwin_b ?
20:14 audreyt visually confusing with .>>. though.
20:14 eviltwin_b (can't put the arrpw on the outside, that looks too much like hyper ops
20:14 audreyt $x.>>.sort
20:14 audreyt is hyper
20:14 eviltwin_b ah
20:14 eviltwin_b I missed that opne, thought all hyper ops were on the outside
20:15 GnuVince reverse 1..3 sounds perfrectly reasonable.
20:15 audreyt .oO
20:15 audreyt Oo.
20:15 eviltwin_b oh wit, it is, that's the dpt operator
20:15 eviltwin_b my, what a tangled web we weave...
20:15 * eviltwin_b can't type
20:16 eviltwin_b "oh wait, that's the dot operator"
20:16 audreyt hm, I wonder if we can make a cert for feather that also lists svn.pugscode.org.
20:17 audreyt until that's solved, an additional warning may appear
20:17 audreyt but I've just set up https://svn.pugscode.org/pugs/
20:17 audreyt for people in .cn have reported that https is easier to get through.
20:18 clkao or there should be a cn site powered by pushmi..
20:18 audreyt pipelining appears to work.
20:18 audreyt not as in speed, as in not crashing.
20:18 clkao not feeling it faster than raw sync?
20:19 audreyt for 0rev
20:19 audreyt they seem to be the same
20:19 audreyt ;)
20:19 audreyt maybe I should try a full sync to test.
20:19 clkao or run two syncs side by side
20:19 audreyt https and http should be same in speed right?
20:20 audreyt (roughly)
20:20 audreyt (with pipelining)
20:20 audreyt or is http:// still faster?
20:20 clkao i don't know
20:20 audreyt ok, I'll bench.
20:20 clkao you can do live test ;)
20:20 audreyt considering Basic Auth, I feel more comfortable with https
20:21 clkao right
20:21 clkao what was openfoundry repository using again?
20:21 weinig is now known as weinig|bbl
20:21 audreyt Basic, but then it also has https
20:21 audreyt so I was always using https
20:21 clkao it did?
20:21 audreyt yes, by request of agentzh relayed by me
20:22 clkao oh well, anyone who wants to temper the pugs repository could just come here and ask for commitbit ;)
20:22 audreyt exactly ;)
20:22 audreyt it's not as if we have something to hide ;)
20:22 clkao i guess it's still different from "tempering under audrety's name"
20:22 audreyt I'm fine with people committing as audrety
20:23 audreyt committing as audreyt however is more trouble :)
20:23 clkao i haven't got commitbit mail.. .
20:23 audreyt pipelining appears to be faster by about 40%
20:24 audreyt but that's just avg'ing 10revs of data before I ^C'ed it
20:24 audreyt no you havn't because I was setting up gzip and https instead of commitbit! :)
20:24 * audreyt goes back setting up commitbit.
20:25 TimToady just changed openfoundry to use https, but it still gives same REPORT error
20:25 clkao audreyt: yayy
20:26 TimToady what exactly is doing this resyncing that I'm supposed to wait for?
20:28 TimToady and did I just tell it to restart by changing to https?  :/
20:28 audreyt you... did
20:28 audreyt and because it blocks on auth
20:28 audreyt it will never happen :D
20:29 audreyt (credential requires a "p" from tty)
20:29 TimToady should it use 's' or not?
20:29 audreyt please change back to http
20:29 audreyt not 's'
20:29 audreyt and pray that it will resync instead of blocking
20:29 * audreyt crosses her fingers
20:29 TimToady k
20:30 audreyt whew it's resyncing.
20:30 audreyt so just wait for a couple hours
20:30 audreyt :)
20:30 TimToady voting &
20:30 * audreyt meanwhile goes back setting up commitbit For Real
20:31 * audreyt praises BestPracticalSolutions for software that (mostly) Just Works
20:39 b_jonas joined perl6
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20:39 b_jonas left perl6
20:40 audreyt clkao: from Rio here, pipelining is exactly 2x the speed than non-
20:40 audreyt taking 50%~60% of the time
20:40 audreyt clkao: great work :)
20:40 audreyt (if you deduct the initial logsyncing which takes longer, it seems to be exactly 2x)
20:41 duend is now known as duend`school
20:42 clkao hurrah
20:43 clkao I ROCK
20:44 audreyt clkao++ clkao++
20:44 audreyt does that make DAV bearable? :)
20:44 clkao ya
20:44 clkao a little bit
20:48 duend`school is now known as duend
20:48 duend exit
20:48 duend left perl6
20:52 dmq could somebody tell me what 'CY'=~ms/ [ [ A :: | C :: | D :: ] X | [ C :: | D ::] Y ] / does?
20:52 DHGE joined perl6
20:53 dmq eval  'CY'=~ms/ [ [ A :: | C :: | D :: ] X | [ C :: | D ::] Y ] /
20:54 audreyt what's ms?
20:54 audreyt ?eval 'CY' ~~ m/ [ [ A :: | C :: | D :: ] X | [ C :: | D ::] Y ] /
20:54 audreyt oh, match with sigspace.
21:00 audreyt ERROR - Error sending mail: error when closing pipe to /usr/sbin/sendmail: No child processes
21:00 audreyt bother...
21:01 obra ouch
21:03 dmq well, i dont really mind what kind of match it is im just wonder if it matches.
21:03 dmq or rather if its supposed to match.
21:03 boo_ joined perl6
21:03 dmq does the '::' fail the whole match?
21:04 [particle] no, it fails the group
21:04 [particle] ::: fails the whole match
21:04 hexmode joined perl6
21:04 dmq so it fails the inner group and then tries the second?
21:05 [particle] yes
21:07 dmq so when you say ::: fails the whole match, what would happen if the input string was CYCX and the pattern was [ [ A :: | C ::: | D :: ] X | [ C :: | D ::] Y ]
21:07 dmq (note the use of a ::: )
21:07 dmq would it match the 'CX'?
21:08 electrogeek is now known as electrogeek_brb
21:08 [particle] yes, i believe so
21:08 audreyt bother...
21:08 audreyt er, sorry, ww :)
21:08 audreyt (but that was accurate as well.)
21:11 dmq hrm, im trying to figure out if ::: is what im calling '(*CUT)'
21:11 dmq sorry for the strange questions
21:12 [particle] np, hang on and i'll get pmichaud in here
21:12 pmichaud_ here
21:12 pmichaud_ oh, input string of CYCX  on that pattern fails
21:12 dmq fails?
21:13 dmq so its not what im calling (*CUT). shoot.
21:13 dmq so then i dont see the difference between ::: and <commit>
21:13 pmichaud_ ::: fails a rule, <commit> fails a match
21:13 [particle] oh, it'll match the C, then fail on the X because the ::: causes the whole match to fail on backtracking
21:13 pmichaud_ the difference is when subrules are involved
21:14 pmichaud_ a rule containing ::: will fail that particular rule (if it was invokved as a subrule), but the outer match will continue
21:14 pmichaud_ a rule containing <commit>  will cause the outer match to fail also
21:14 dmq ok, so when no subrules are involved <commit> and ::: are equivelent?
21:14 pmichaud_ effectively, yes.
21:14 dmq hrm. ok.
21:16 dmq a single ':' seems like a post op way to have a (?>....) wrapped around the previous atom.
21:16 dmq is that about right?
21:16 pmichaud_ pretty much.  Syntactically it's much cleaner
21:17 pmichaud_ PGE implements ':' as a postfix quantifier
21:17 dmq ok, so perl5 is doing that with possessive quantifiers, but its basically the same thing.
21:17 dmq so iiuir X+: in perl6 is the same as X++ in perl5.10
21:18 dmq since X++ is the same as (?>X+)
21:18 pmichaud_ I'd have to look up the X++ syntax (haven't studied perl 5.10 much)
21:18 prefiks joined perl6
21:18 dmq its new.
21:18 pmichaud_ but yes, X+: is (?>X+)
21:18 [particle] is ++ friedl's?
21:19 [particle] if so, yes
21:19 dmq ok, so then we cant do '::', but it looks like ::: is what im calling (*COMMIT)
21:19 dmq ++ is the notation friedl recommended. It originates in a java package but i forget which.
21:20 pmichaud_ I like the perl6 notation much better.  Of course, that doesn't really work for p5, because : isn't meta in p5
21:20 dmq no. :-)
21:20 dmq im going to have to figure out a name for '::'
21:21 [particle] (*CUTGROUP) ?
21:21 pmichaud_ PGE uses   '::' =>  'cut group'
21:21 pmichaud_ ':::' => 'cut rule'
21:21 pmichaud_ '<commit>' => 'commit'
21:22 pmichaud_ <commit> is also known as "cut match" in PGE
21:22 dmq (*CUT) is different in its current existance.
21:23 dmq it tells the engine to skip the already matched characters when looking for a valid match.
21:23 pmichaud_ like <cut> ?
21:23 dmq my understanding is cut is a little different.
21:23 dmq your cut i mean.
21:24 [particle] what happens if you backtrack past (*CUT)?
21:24 dmq for instance 'aaaaabaaaab'=~/a+b(*CUT)(*FAIL)/ would first try at pos 0, match up to the 'b' fail, and start again at the 'a' following the first 'b'.
21:25 pmichaud_ hmmm
21:25 dmq particle: it fails the match at the current startpoint, and advances the startpoint to at earliest the cursor point where the cut was encounterd.
21:25 pmichaud_ it's pretty close to a p6 cut, with the exception that a p6 cut also fails the match
21:25 [particle] ok
21:26 [particle] p6cut is destructive
21:26 audreyt clkao: htdigest support possible?
21:28 justatheory joined perl6
21:30 dmq think about what 'aaaaabaaaab'=~/a+bc/ would do if the optimiser werent smart enough to look for the 'c'
21:30 clkao audreyt: you ask for a lot ;)
21:31 dmq like for instance: 'aaaaabaaaab'=~/a+b[XYZc]/
21:31 pmichaud_ PGE doesn't have that optimization yet, but it will
21:31 pmichaud_ PGE will be smart enough to know that /a+b[XYZc]/ is the same as /a+:b[XYZc]/
21:32 dmq Cool! ( PCRE already is. And its on my todo list for perl5. :-)
21:32 audreyt clkao: you can say "no" :)
21:32 dmq but anyway, forget that point.
21:32 dmq consider how much work happens with 'aaaaabaaaab'=~/a+b[XYZc]/
21:32 clkao audreyt: not too soon. but you have a commitbit
21:32 dmq wheras 'aaaaabaaaab'=~/a+b(*CUT)[XYZc]/ would do a fraction
21:33 clkao i thinik it's a matter httpd.conf
21:33 audreyt ok. once the critical injection attack is fixed I'll happily do that
21:34 dmq do you see what im saying pmichaud?
21:35 pmichaud_ oh, yes, I see
21:36 dmq its like an optimisation hint.
21:37 pmichaud_ in p6 rules we would do    / [ a+b :: ] <[XYZc]> /
21:37 dmq ive actually got perl5 working so that you can set the point independently of the (*CUT).
21:37 pmichaud_ but hmmm, that still doesn't get the same behavior
21:37 pmichaud_ I'll have to think about that one a bit
21:38 dmq incidentally my (*COMMIT) is just a special case of my (*CUT), on failure it sets the "cutpoint" to the end of the string.
21:39 audreyt clkao: you got spam. can you try commit to pugs?
21:40 bpphillips left perl6
21:40 justatheory_ joined perl6
21:40 dmq btw, all of this is in blead perl if you want to play with it.
21:42 pmichaud_ that would be cool
21:42 pmichaud_ tnx
21:42 pmichaud_ afk & # making dinner
21:43 dmq cool, me too.
21:45 audreyt svnbot now checks every 30 seconds
21:45 audreyt since it's a file:/// check :)
21:45 svnbot6 joined perl6
21:46 [particle] that's a nice improvement :)
21:46 [particle] ...and side effect
21:46 audreyt :D
21:46 weinig|bbl is now known as weinig
21:47 eggzeck joined perl6
21:49 frederico joined perl6
21:50 audreyt clkao: so. to sync back into svn.perl.org
21:50 audreyt and to svn.openfoundry.org
21:50 audreyt pushmi is cleanest right?
21:50 audreyt compared to svnsync, svk smerge
21:52 Debolaz2 joined perl6
21:55 clkao audreyt: pushmi has to be run on the slave site
21:55 clkao the good thing is that it also takes commit
21:55 clkao so it's seamless
21:55 audreyt oh hm.
21:55 clkao to clients
21:56 audreyt so we need to talk to Robrt?
21:56 audreyt to make svn.perl.org a pushmi mirror that is
21:56 audreyt or one of the new boxes
21:58 audreyt commitbit.pugscode.org is almost ready.
21:58 audreyt pending a single vendor fix :)
21:59 jferrero joined perl6
21:59 audreyt oh it's in.
21:59 audreyt obra++
22:09 [smash] hi all
22:10 smash_ anyone here working on pugs/trunk/v6/v6-MiniPerl6/ ?
22:11 audreyt smash_: me, and I suspect fglock in a couple hours
22:12 smash_ nice
22:12 smash_ any docs/papers/examples i could read about it ?
22:13 smash_ (looking at the code now)
22:13 audreyt smash_: there is http://pugs.blogs.com/photos/v​isiolization/mp6bootstrap.html
22:13 lambdabot Title: Visiolization: Mp6bootstrap, http://tinyurl.com/yxb6ux
22:13 audreyt there is also t/
22:13 audreyt not much beyond those for now
22:14 audreyt a HACKING file would be nice
22:14 smash_ cool.. let me take a look at those
22:14 audreyt but I'm swamped in apache configuration land, so please bear with me :)
22:14 smash_ heh
22:14 smash_ ahh.. apache configuration land ? not that bad
22:15 smash_ (could be worse)
22:15 obra . o O { Could be AOLServer}
22:16 audreyt apache 2.2 is actally good.
22:16 smash_ need any help with apaches .conf ?
22:16 * smash_ still sticks to 1.3
22:16 pasteling "ashleyb" at 66.201.51.66 pasted "(for fglock) -- here are some more detailed tests for that hang problem." (55 lines, 1.4K) at http://sial.org/pbot/20958
22:17 ashleyb @tell fglock here are some more detailed tests for that hang problem.  ---   http://sial.org/pbot/20958
22:17 lambdabot Consider it noted.
22:17 rlb3 joined perl6
22:28 smash_ ahh.. haskell function declaration.. neat
22:30 rodi joined perl6
22:30 mAdzzzzzz joined perl6
22:31 audreyt http://commitbit.pugscode.org/ is up.
22:31 lambdabot Title: Welcome to CommitBit for our projects
22:32 jrockway hmm, the links seem broken
22:32 jrockway they link to perlcabal.org
22:32 jrockway which is 404-ing
22:32 Limbic_Region joined perl6
22:33 audreyt really?
22:33 audreyt try force reload
22:35 smash_ it looks fine to me
22:35 jrockway weirdness
22:35 jrockway now it works, but it's at svn.pugscode.com:9999
22:35 jrockway (it wasn't before)
22:36 audreyt nod. it was wrong for a minute.
22:36 [particle] i've seen the same behavior
22:37 audreyt in any case everything should work now.
22:37 audreyt scripting the commit-bit-resender with pugs...
22:38 jrockway heh, does jifty run on top of pugs yet?
22:38 audreyt if you consider
22:38 audreyt use perl5:Jifty;
22:38 audreyt then yes ;) but no, we havn't ported Jifty to run on v6.pm.
22:43 svnbot6 r14673 | audreyt++ | * Massive revisionism: Change all files in docs/ to mention svn.pugscode.org
22:43 svnbot6 r14673 | audreyt++ |   not svn.openfoundry.org.
22:44 audreyt yay, svnbot works.
22:44 audreyt [particle]: you got a minute?
22:44 audreyt or anyone who want to volunteer for commitbit testing before I spam everybody? :)
22:45 [particle] ok
22:45 [particle] spam me! spam me!
22:45 audreyt k. checkmail
22:46 audreyt then do a trivial commit
22:46 audreyt then goto commitbit.pugscode.org and invite the next victim^Wvolunteer
22:46 audreyt so we can make sure the entire chain works
22:46 audreyt chain, as in chain mail
22:46 TimToady the page doesn't list invites sent?  actually, lists them as fait accompli...
22:46 audreyt which provides pretty good AC
22:46 [particle] i'm logged in
22:47 audreyt [particle]: try commit
22:47 [particle] hrmm
22:47 audreyt TimToady: correct
22:47 [particle] it said i was logged in
22:47 [particle] then i clicked 'Preferences' and it sent me to login screen
22:47 audreyt then you should be able to set password or something
22:47 audreyt that link is only good for setting pass, I think...
22:47 audreyt or is the link broken?
22:48 audreyt /msg me the link you got from mail?
22:48 [particle] well, now that i'm *really* logged in, there is no link
22:48 [particle] for preferences
22:48 audreyt it should be http://svn.pugscode.org:9999/prefs
22:48 lambdabot Title: Login
22:50 [particle] that points me to login
22:50 [particle] lemme log out
22:50 audreyt ok
22:50 [particle] reload is slow
22:50 smash_ it should have something more after prefs
22:51 smash_ logout & login
22:51 smash_ (or clena local cache)
22:51 smash_ using firefox ?
22:51 [particle] yes ff2
22:51 smash_ sometimes firefox can be a pain
22:51 [particle] when i'm logged in, i have Home | Login
22:51 smash_ (because of cached stuff)
22:52 smash_ Home ! Login is what i have
22:52 audreyt the database thinks [particle] is as much as login as me
22:52 [particle] lemme commit
22:52 audreyt so must be cache at some layer
22:52 audreyt sure
22:53 smash_ does it send you a "special" link
22:53 smash_ after or before register ?
22:53 audreyt smash_: I invited [particle]
22:53 Limbic_Region pugscode.org down?
22:54 [particle] yes , i got an email message, with a special signup link
22:54 justatheory joined perl6
22:54 [particle] from [email@hidden.address]
22:54 smash_ did audreyt received an invite too ?
22:54 svnbot6 r14674 | particle++ | s/\t/ /g
22:54 [particle] yay
22:55 smash_ different links ?
22:55 [particle] now, whot shall i invite? mestre.smash?
22:55 Limbic_Region pardon the confusion but 1.  Is pugscode.org being down known and 2.  How do I tell svn to point to the new repo permanently?
22:55 * smash_ blushes.
22:55 [particle] lr: svn sw <old> <new>
22:56 [particle] wait, i think i'm missing an option there...
22:56 TimToady --relocate?
22:56 [particle] that's the one
22:56 * Limbic_Region doesn't see a relocate option in help
22:56 smash_  --relocate               : relocate via URL-rewriting
22:56 smash_ $ svn help sw
22:57 Limbic_Region ahh
22:57 Limbic_Region ok - and the old repo was at what url?
22:57 audreyt svn sw --relocate http://svn.openfoundry.org/pugs http://svn.pugscode.org/pugs
22:57 [particle] audrey, what next?
22:57 obra audreyt: Set-cookie: JIFTY_SID_80
22:57 lambdabot Title: Revision 343: /
22:57 audreyt should do. try it?
22:57 obra port 9999 + a cookie for port 80 == sad
22:57 audreyt obra: ah. what should I do to fix that?
22:58 Limbic_Region thanks all
22:58 smash_ obra: ?
22:58 obra audreyt: is it running on 9999 intentionally?
22:58 Limbic_Region now about http://pugscode.org being down - known issue or just me?
22:58 audreyt obra: yes
22:58 [particle] obra:  that might be happening with bitcard on rt.perl.org/rt3/ as well, then
22:58 audreyt Limbic_Region: known, will deal later
22:58 Limbic_Region k
22:58 smash_ Limbic_Region: no page here too
22:59 obra [particle]: no. that's different i think
22:59 obra audreyt: what port is in our jifty config file?
22:59 audreyt 8888
22:59 audreyt just changed to 9999
22:59 audreyt    BaseURL: http://svn.pugscode.org:9999
22:59 lambdabot Title: Welcome to CommitBit for PugsCode
22:59 audreyt    Port: 9999
22:59 audreyt should work now
22:59 obra audreyt: send me a commit bit and I'll test ;)
23:00 audreyt [particle]: retry login, then invite a new administrator
23:00 smash_ no httpd running on pugscode.org:80
23:00 [particle] ok, will try
23:00 audreyt [particle]: [email@hidden.address] under name "lwall"
23:00 [particle] Ctrl-<F5> to clear cache
23:01 [particle] Transferring data from svn.pugscode.org... (takes a while)
23:01 obra audreyt: in devel mode?
23:01 audreyt obra: commit bit sent
23:01 [particle] not working for me
23:01 audreyt obra: no, devel=0
23:01 [particle] so, i login => welcome page
23:02 [particle] click 'home'
23:02 [particle] click 'pugs'
23:02 [particle] click 'Admin page'
23:02 [particle] => login page
23:02 [particle] i'll try another browser
23:02 audreyt hm. maybe it cached http://svn.pugscode.org:9999/admin
23:02 lambdabot Title: Manage projects and repositories
23:02 obra sJIFTY_SID_9999
23:02 audreyt can you try going in to commitbit.pugscode.org directly?
23:02 smash_ if it keeps sending you to "login page" it's because you aren't logged in
23:03 audreyt obra: as in, it works for you?
23:03 obra I get the right cookie. but i'm waiting on greylisting
23:03 audreyt in the "people" page it should display whether they picked it up or not
23:03 * audreyt hacks
23:04 [particle] grr
23:04 obra audreyt: move unconfirmed people to  a separate section?
23:04 * Limbic_Region isn't in a big rush to get his commit bit and admin status back but doesn't want to be forgotten about either
23:06 audreyt Limbic_Region: all in due time :)
23:08 [particle] yeah, i can't get in no matter what
23:08 * audreyt frowns
23:08 smash_ error_log ?
23:08 obra cookie issues?
23:08 audreyt Limbic_Region: can you try login?
23:09 ferreira joined perl6
23:09 smash_ clean cookies
23:09 audreyt errorlog is clean
23:09 [particle] i just started exploder7 for the first time, cleaned cookies/cache, went to commitbit.pugscode.org (redirected to svn.pugscode.org:9999)
23:09 smash_ is access_log grwoing ? # just to make sure you're checking the right log
23:10 obra logged in ok
23:10 obra audreyt: shall I invite lwall?
23:11 audreyt sure go ahead
23:11 [particle] hrmm pugs project page looks very different in ie vs ff
23:11 [particle] People is below License, rather than right of Pugs
23:12 obra audreyt: that's throwing an error.
23:12 audreyt [Wed Nov 08 00:11:54 2006] [error] [client 66.92.67.231] FastCGI: server "/data/svn/commitbit/bin/jifty" stderr: ERROR - There was a validation error for person, referer: http://svn.pugscode.org:999​9/admin/project/Pugs/people
23:12 lambdabot Title: Login, http://tinyurl.com/ss5yz
23:12 Limbic_Region audreyt - trying now
23:13 audreyt obra: so. you are not users.admin
23:13 audreyt but projectmemeber.level=administrator
23:13 obra indeed.
23:13 audreyt obra: that is the correct permission state, no?
23:13 obra looks like a logic bug in commitbit
23:13 obra (haven't had a lot of experience with non-superuser metacommiters)
23:13 audreyt whew.
23:13 obra sorry. working
23:13 audreyt k
23:14 Limbic_Region audreyt - not working AFAICT
23:15 audreyt Limbic_Region: as in, can't login?
23:15 Limbic_Region I tried both the email addresses that I might have registered with originally and my pw that was working as of yesterday - it says I might have typed something incorrectly
23:15 obra Limbic_Region: no. new url in your inbox
23:15 audreyt Limbic_Region: sorry, the old pw, we can't get plaintext
23:16 audreyt and md5 digest can't be made to work (yet)
23:16 * Limbic_Region goes to check his inbox
23:16 obra audreyt: I'm almost 100% positive that it's ProjectMember.pm sub create  with the wrong user.
23:16 audreyt so we decided to reinvite
23:16 obra but I'm falling over for lack of food
23:16 * Limbic_Region is in a foul mood so is sorry if he is less than helpful
23:16 audreyt obra: ok. I'll deal.
23:16 audreyt Limbic_Region: aww.
23:16 obra audreyt: thanks. sorry
23:16 audreyt what happened?
23:17 Limbic_Region I have no email in my inbox
23:17 Limbic_Region audreyt - in a nutshell, geographic distance is making me incapable of properly taking care of someone I love and who, to a certain degree, depends on me
23:17 audreyt oy. I know that feeling (only too well).
23:18 audreyt Limbic_Region: I sent to the _2000 one in yahoo
23:18 zptao you've done well
23:19 Limbic_Region audreyt - I checked that one and my gmail to include spam folder - nada
23:19 Limbic_Region can you instead try Joshua period Gatcomb at gmail ?
23:21 audreyt Limbic_Region: sure. done
23:21 smash_ invite me too || :P j/k
23:22 Limbic_Region works great
23:22 Limbic_Region so I won't have to change anything in svn for a ci?
23:22 audreyt provided you relocated
23:22 audreyt then yes. can you try a commit?
23:23 Limbic_Region sure
23:23 audreyt smash_: sure. email addr?
23:24 justatheory joined perl6
23:24 audreyt Limbic_Region: can you try invite [email@hidden.address] as "lwall" under "administrator" priv
23:24 smash_ audreyt: [email@hidden.address] (thks)
23:24 audreyt in the commitbit.pugscode.org interface?
23:25 Limbic_Region audreyt - will do in just a sec
23:25 Limbic_Region svn ci wasn't as friendly as I had hoped
23:26 audreyt smash_: done.
23:26 audreyt smash_: add yourself to AUTHORS and commit?
23:26 Limbic_Region I had to --username first timme
23:26 Limbic_Region trying larry's commit bit now
23:27 Limbic_Region seemed to work ok
23:27 svnbot6 r14675 | Limbic_Region++ | Added a link to perlmonks discussion on fib memoization example
23:27 Limbic_Region all things back to normall
23:27 audreyt good
23:27 audreyt whew
23:27 audreyt ok, I'll resend all the other commit bits now.
23:27 audreyt thanks to all for testing :)
23:28 smash_ audreyt: seems to work ok
23:28 smash_ audreyt: err.. i don't have nothing productive to ci :/
23:29 audreyt smash_: add yourself to AUTHORS
23:29 audreyt then ci that
23:29 audreyt welcome aboard btw :)
23:29 smash_ err, thks
23:29 smash_ let me co first
23:30 TimToady Looks good.  not going to relocate till I ensure that openfoundry is synced up.
23:30 [particle] ok, things working better now, but js errors on the admin/project/Pugs/people page
23:31 jrockway did the repository uuid (etc.) change? if so I think you have to re-checkout
23:31 audreyt jrockway: no, we preserved revnnum and uuid
23:31 audreyt and all revprops
23:31 audreyt with svk/util/pullyu you can do that to any repo :)
23:31 audreyt basically cloning a remote repo
23:31 audreyt incrementally
23:32 jrockway cool!
23:32 Aankhen`` joined perl6
23:32 jrockway i remember reading on the svk wiki that you had to re-checkout
23:32 obra just wait until you get pushmi. Then we can play games with which repo is master and you'll never need to care
23:32 audreyt yeah, pushmi and pullyu are New Technology
23:32 audreyt as of this week
23:33 smash_ couln't you have just rsync'ed it '
23:33 smash_ ?
23:34 audreyt and then the "k" part of "svk" will finally mean something.
23:34 audreyt smash_: rsync over mounted dav?
23:34 audreyt that is a curious thought, but I don't think it works that way
23:34 audreyt (no, we don't have shell access on openfoundry)
23:34 smash_ stop everything && umount everything && run live cd && rsync to new location && mount && start everything again
23:35 smash_ that could work ;)
23:35 smash_ (or not)
23:35 LimbicRegion joined perl6
23:36 LimbicRegion is now known as Limbic_Region
23:36 jrockway tasty.  now forking open source projects will be easier than ever ;)
23:36 jrockway no more asking people to recheckout their working copies, they can just svk relocate and "stick it to the man" ;)
23:36 Limbic_Region sorry, had access issues
23:37 audreyt yeah. just like All Other Modern VCS :)
23:37 Limbic_Region audreyt - did you want me to help redistribute commit bits?
23:37 audreyt Limbic_Region: no, I'm writing a script to do that
23:37 audreyt but thanks
23:38 smash_ (since i'm here, lemme build pugs ;) )
23:38 audreyt reinvite seems to work
23:39 audreyt reinviting all admins...
23:42 audreyt all admins reinvited. reviting authors...
23:42 obra audreyt: what was the bug?
23:42 audreyt obra: current_user_can
23:42 audreyt but sorry, I'm on the brink of ENOFOOD fading
23:42 audreyt so let me finish reinviting first
23:42 bsb joined perl6
23:43 obra okie. I'll look for a checkin post-food
23:43 audreyt I actually hardcoded it so any project admin become superuser.
23:43 obra oh
23:43 audreyt I mean, for the purpose of creation
23:43 audreyt you wouldn't want that.
23:43 audreyt but we only have 1 project
23:43 audreyt so *shrug*
23:43 obra nod
23:44 obra "first time I need a metacommitter"
23:44 cmarcelo joined perl6
23:44 ingy I got mail from audreyt
23:44 audreyt good. :)
23:45 audreyt all authores being spammed...
23:45 cmarcelo ola. this new commitbit password is non-related to feather passwd, right?
23:45 obra correct
23:46 audreyt I really need to write up a faq and post to blogs and pugs homepage and p6a
23:46 Limbic_Region anyone care to speculate if chromatic is taking a jab at pugs in general or its many incomplete backends at http://use.perl.org/~acme/journal/31531
23:47 obra It's not worth speculating
23:47 Limbic_Region you're probably right
23:48 * Limbic_Region wanders off to cool off
23:48 obra There are many ways to a running Perl 6. What's cool is that there is more than one way to do it.
23:51 audreyt and I replied to apologize.
23:52 ferreira left perl6
23:54 Aankhen`` Oooh, interesting... ECMAScript 4...
23:54 Aankhen`` Oh, 2008.  Not so interesting then.
23:54 audreyt "production" 2008
23:55 audreyt they have part of it already rolled out in JS1.5
23:55 audreyt shipped with firefox2, I think
23:55 Aankhen`` FF2 had JS 1.7.
23:55 Aankhen`` I guess full ECMAScript 4th Edition compliance is targeted at Mozilla 2.
23:55 clkao audreyt: you are evil
23:55 audreyt correct.
23:55 audreyt clkao: hm?
23:56 audreyt Aankhen``: indeed, I stand corrected :)
23:56 clkao the reply. don't be evil, okay? :p
23:56 smash_ (this Linking ... completely trashes my laptop)
23:57 Aankhen`` audreyt: Nah, you were right, you just got the minor number wrong.
23:57 * Aankhen`` wonders why Mozilla still uses CVS.
23:58 audreyt changes topic to: svn switch --relocate http://svn.openfoundry.org/ http://svn.pugscode.org/pugs/ | run.pugscode.org | spec.pugscode.org | paste: http://sial.org/pbot/perl6 | pugs.blogs.com
23:58 Aankhen`` Habit?
23:58 audreyt probably.
23:59 eviltwin_b commitbit received
23:59 Aankhen`` I guess it might be difficult to convert the entire repository into an SVN repository.

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