Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2006-11-20

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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10:44 ludan hi
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11:04 * smash_ good morning
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11:08 fglock pmurias: re: 'does util/build-perl5.sh use the old v6.pm or MiniPerl6 itself?'
11:08 lambdabot fglock: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
11:08 fglock util/build-perl5.sh is pre-bootstrap - it used v6.pm
11:08 fglock MP6 needs a new build script
11:12 nothingmuch moooooo
11:15 svnbot6 r14791 | fglock++ | MP6 - util/build-perl5.sh renamed to build-with-v6.sh
11:19 fglock nothingmuch: hey
11:19 svnbot6 r14792 | fglock++ | MP6 - new build script "util/build-perl5.sh"
11:19 svnbot6 r14792 | fglock++ | - recompiles MP6 using itself
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11:20 fglock diff -u -r lib5 lib5-new == no differences :)
11:22 nothingmuch hola fglock
11:23 fglock nothingmuch: mp6 needs a MO :)
11:24 nothingmuch =)
11:24 nothingmuch what is it's target language right now?
11:25 fglock nothingmuch: Perl5, Haskell, Parrot, and Javascript for now
11:25 nothingmuch i meant the major one
11:26 fglock mp6 is written in mp6, so mp6 is the major one
11:26 nothingmuch it doesn't compile mp6 to mp6 though, does it?
11:27 nothingmuch i mean you run mp6 through itself, and make a $x_lang "executable"
11:27 nothingmuch which is the best supported $x_lang?
11:27 fglock currently only perl5 is implemented
11:27 nothingmuch okies =)
11:27 nothingmuch so, that helps a lot
11:27 nothingmuch there are two ways that you can plug MO
11:27 fglock I'm working on c++ too
11:28 nothingmuch 1) push it all down to the runtime
11:28 nothingmuch by simply translating the metaclass mappings
11:28 nothingmuch and implementing a metaclass in the target language's MO impl
11:28 nothingmuch or (more robust, more work):
11:28 nothingmuch 2) implement at least MO::Comple::* in MiniPerl6
11:29 nothingmuch and do the metamodel calcs in the compiler
11:29 nothingmuch emitting much more simplified responder interface calls
11:29 nothingmuch that's actually the original intent
11:29 nothingmuch but we might be able to get working code sooner by short cutting for now
11:30 fglock I like the idea of MO::Comple::* in MiniPerl6 - this make it easier to port to other backends
11:30 nothingmuch yes
11:31 nothingmuch this is definitely the correct way to implement it
11:31 fglock sorry - bbiab
11:35 fglock nothingmuch is MO-perl5 published?
11:45 audreyt fglock: darcs get http://nothingmuch.woobling.org/MO
11:45 lambdabot audreyt: You have 3 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
11:45 lambdabot Title: Index of /MO
11:46 fglock audreyt: k
11:49 fglock audreyt: re the 'Tree' example in http://svn.pugscode.org/pugs/v6/v6-MiniPerl6/miniperl6-spec.pod
11:49 lambdabot http://tinyurl.com/yzs3h5
11:49 fglock would it be: ($left, $right) = ($top.left, $top.right)
11:50 audreyt sure
11:50 audreyt er wait
11:50 audreyt you are compiling mp6 to mp6?
11:50 audreyt then it's :=, not =
11:50 fglock right
11:51 audreyt otherwise yes.
11:51 audreyt and if there's not $top
11:51 audreyt but simply
11:51 audreyt (Tree ($left, $right))
11:51 audreyt then you need to gensym a $temp to hold it.
11:52 fglock is 'Tree (:$left, :$right)' better to write?
11:52 fglock :$var is now supported
11:53 audreyt well I think it's a punning in spec
11:53 fglock actually, '::Tree( :$left, :$right )'
11:53 audreyt I think either will do
11:54 audreyt but I support that proposition that :$left looks and works better.
11:54 fglock so the exp grammar can be reused for sig - does it make sense?
11:55 audreyt that is the expectation
11:55 audreyt as sig is simply lhs of :=
11:55 audreyt and in bind we already handle the lhs-side compilation
11:55 audreyt for non-Control nodes
11:57 fglock audreyt: did you try out the native MP6 compiler?
11:57 audreyt no, sorry
11:58 audreyt I'm too busy to proc a certain event
11:58 audreyt that will hopefully stabilize tomorrow
11:58 fglock audreyt: 'sh hello.sh' will do
11:59 audreyt T:~/work/pugs/v6/v6-MiniPerl6 audreyt$ sh hello.sh
11:59 audreyt hello, World
11:59 audreyt that... was easy
11:59 audreyt nice :)
12:02 fglock is this valid p6? 'my ::Tree $top (:$left, :$right);'
12:03 nothingmuch audreyt: did you see the .pdf?
12:04 audreyt fglock: yes.
12:04 audreyt nothingmuch: no.
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12:09 * dmq waves hello
12:12 nothingmuch ola!
12:13 dmq wassup
12:16 dmq @messages
12:16 lambdabot You don't have any new messages.
12:16 masak is pugscode down? I can't svn-up it at the moment
12:18 fglock dmq: hi
12:19 audreyt masak: it worksforme
12:20 dmq how are tings?
12:22 dmq i was doing battle with perl5 and how it handles \G and /g the past few days. Was wondering what perl6 does in that direction.
12:25 dmq like could you say: $str='aabbccddeeff'; pos($str)=5; /(..)\G(..)/ and print "Before pos: $1 After pos: $2";
12:25 dmq and if thats ok, can you do something like /xy*\G(..)/?
12:26 broquaint That would be ace.
12:26 dmq the latter would be forbidden by me. :-)
12:27 dmq the former would fine.
12:28 broquaint I like the idea of being able to use \G arbitrarily.
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12:28 dmq the only problem with that is you run into the problem of infinite loops, and serious performance issues.
12:28 broquaint Details, details.
12:29 dmq Yeah, well, ive been dealing with them
12:29 dmq :-)
12:29 broquaint Ah :)
12:30 dmq like for instance its probably not cool to have pos($str)=2; @list=m/(..)\G/g; infinite loop until it sucks all available memory.
12:31 broquaint Crappy non-turing-machine computers.
12:31 dmq that was a doozy to figure out.
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12:35 svnbot6 r14793 | fglock++ | MP6 - updated miniperl6-spec 'coercion-form binding'
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12:37 fglock dmq: that would be ' <after (..)> (..) ' - but I'm not sure if <after> can make captures
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12:54 dmq after?
12:54 dmq hmm ok.
12:55 * dmq idly wonders how the english would take it if the germans invented a programming language where 'anus' was a keyword
12:57 * rgs back
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13:08 svnbot6 r14794 | fglock++ | * added v6/v6-MiniPerl6-MO
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13:35 svnbot6 r14795 | fglock++ | MP6 - added 'print', '!=', '=='
13:35 svnbot6 r14796 | fglock++ | MP6 - added 'bind' tests
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13:38 svnbot6 r14797 | fglock++ | MP6 - updated p5 image
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13:46 Reyben I open a file with something like 'open FH, "<", $filename;'. Is it possible to determine at a later time whether the FH is valid, i.e. whether the file could be opened?
13:46 svnbot6 r14798 | fglock++ | MP6 - more bind tests
13:49 Limbic_Region Reyben - this is #perl6 which is to discuss and develop the perl 6 language.  Please try #perl
13:50 Limbic_Region Reyben - in general, you should always check the return code of open my $rc = open(my $fh, '<', $file);
13:50 Limbic_Region Reyben - then later on you can check $rc
13:50 Limbic_Region Reyben - notice I used a lexical filehandle and a 3arg open, you should too
13:50 Limbic_Region Reyben - now good luck and please check out #perl
13:55 Reyben Thanks. Strangely, a #perl channel doesn't currently appear on my room list, though.
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15:05 fglock particle: ping
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15:14 masak audreyt: ah, worksforme too now
15:14 [particle] fglock: pong
15:15 fglock particle: do you have some time to guide me through parrot? I'm working on mp6-on-parrot
15:15 [particle] sure
15:16 * [particle] updates his working copy
15:16 fglock is parrot 0.4.1 usable? that's what I have here
15:16 [particle] urk
15:16 [particle] that's almost a year old
15:16 [particle] 0.4.7 was just released. there should be a debian package if you need it
15:17 fglock do you know if is there a package for osx?
15:17 [particle] iirc 0.4.1 won't have a reentrant parser
15:20 [particle] fglock: can you join #parrot? there's a bunch of excited folks looking to help :)
15:20 [particle] (irc.perl.org)
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15:21 fglock particle: ok
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15:28 fglock pmichaud: this is the emitter that I need to translate: http://svn.pugscode.org/pugs/v6/v6-MiniPerl6/lib/MiniPerl6/Perl5/Emitter.pm
15:28 lambdabot http://tinyurl.com/y3uxdp
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16:29 svnbot6 r14799 | kudra++ | Summary
16:44 svnbot6 r14800 | fglock++ | MP6 - added initial Parrot emitter
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16:49 TimToady @tell dmq \G is discussed at S05:1043
16:49 lambdabot Consider it noted.
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16:52 TimToady @tell dmq S05 can be found at http://dev.perl.org/perl6/doc/design/syn/S05.html or at https://svn.perl.org/perl6/doc/trunk/design/syn/S05.pod
16:52 lambdabot Consider it noted.
16:53 TimToady @tell dmq for the original rationale of the regex redesign please read http://dev.perl.org/perl6/doc/design/apo/A05.html
16:53 lambdabot Consider it noted.
16:55 TimToady @tell dmq many of the questions you are asking here are already answered in S05, so it seems someone somewhere has neglected to point you at S05.  Sorry...
16:55 svnbot6 r14801 | fglock++ | MP6 - added 'mp6-parrot' script
16:55 lambdabot Consider it noted.
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17:13 svnbot6 r14802 | fglock++ | MP6 - parrot emitter - added int, num, bool
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17:22 svnbot6 r14803 | fglock++ | MP6 - added undef, string to parrot emitter
17:22 studentC hi everybody
17:22 studentC do you know how to modify @INC?
17:22 studentC I've tried to do: use lib /usr/local/pf/lib
17:23 studentC and in another way using BEGIN{...}
17:25 studentC could you help me please
17:25 svnbot6 r14804 | fglock++ | MP6 - added lib5/MiniPerl6/Parrot
17:25 TreyHarris studentC: are you actually using "use lib /usr/local/pf/lib"?
17:26 TreyHarris You need to quote the argument.  like "use lib </usr/local/pf/lib>"
17:26 TreyHarris and of course, a semicolon after
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17:27 studentC thanks
17:28 studentC i'm a beginner ;)
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17:28 TreyHarris no problem, you're welcome
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17:35 svnbot6 r14805 | fglock++ | MP6 - commented out some unused nodes in emitter
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18:12 GnuVince .seen obra
18:12 GnuVince @seen obra
18:12 lambdabot obra is in #perl6. I don't know when obra last spoke.
18:13 obra yes?
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19:02 svnbot6 r14806 | fglock++ | MP6 - parrot output starts to make sense
19:02 svnbot6 r14806 | fglock++ |   echo 'class x { say "hi" } ' | perl mp6-parrot.pl
19:13 obra seen GnuVince
19:13 jabbot obra: GnuVince was seen 1 hours 1 minutes 35 seconds ago
19:16 GnuVince obra: Hi.  Earlier this afternoon, I got a 500 error for hiveminder.com, but it was fixed within a couple of minutes.  Just wanted to tell you in case.
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19:17 obra GnuVince: thanks. the server flipped out
19:18 GnuVince obra: okay.  Keep up the nice work with Hiveminder, it's extremely nice :)
19:18 obra thanks :)
19:18 obra we've got some things we're really, really excited about coming
19:18 svnbot6 r14807 | particle++ | MP6 - quote the namespace
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19:23 GnuVince obra: cool.  I'm still hoping to play with Jifty, but I've been having problems instaling it from CPAN :(
19:23 [particle] jifty head doesn't like win32
19:23 [particle] jifty cpan should work fine
19:23 [particle] gnuvince: make sure you're using the tcool repo
19:24 obra GnuVince: you're on win32?
19:24 GnuVince Linux.
19:24 [particle] oh, wait, i'm assuming here...
19:24 GnuVince Not sure what the tcool repo is...
19:24 [particle] sorry, wrong guy :)
19:24 dmq joined perl6
19:24 * Limbic_Region is on Win32 [particle] but isn't interested in jifty
19:24 [particle] gnuvince: ignore that tcool bit. that's for win32 folks
19:24 Limbic_Region hey dmq - TimToady left you some @tell messages
19:24 obra GnuVince: what's biting you?
19:25 dmq thanks l_r. :-)
19:25 lambdabot dmq: You have 4 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
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19:25 GnuVince obra: can't remember right now, I'm not on that machine.  If memory serves right, cpan couldn't find the ~/.cpan/Build/Jifty-0.xxxx/ folder.
19:26 GnuVince If there's a mailing list/forum for Jifty, I'll post the entire thing there.
19:26 obra there's jifty-devel@lists.jifty.org
19:30 GnuVince obra: okay, I'll post there tonight.  I really want to play with Jifty.
19:30 GnuVince I makes me think of Rails meets Seaside
19:31 obra aw thanks
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19:33 * dmq wonders if he should thank lambdabot or not.
19:33 * dmq figures why not.
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19:37 Limbic_Region salutations studentC
19:38 Limbic_Region oh wow, I didn't realize I was scrolled back so far
19:38 GnuVince Limbic_Region: :)
19:39 Limbic_Region I was reading the msgs TimToady left for dmq in case I might also be interested and I was.  It has been a looooong time since I read A05
19:41 dmq Well i can definitely agree that the best thing to do about \G is to get rid of it.
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19:41 ludan ola
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19:45 dmq Er, which is not to imply i disagree with any of it.
19:45 svnbot6 r14808 | fglock++ | MP6-parrot - implemented Array
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20:54 anatolyv ?eval sub foo { my $x = 5; sub bar { $x; } }  bar()
20:54 evalbot_r14790 is now known as evalbot_r14808
20:54 evalbot_r14808 \undef
20:54 anatolyv anyone knows if this should be allowed at all?
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20:59 wolverian looks fine. what do you think is wrong about it?
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21:37 svnbot6 r14809 | particle++ | MP6 - ws cleanup
21:47 anatolyv wolverian: it's not clear which $x bar() should refer to.
21:48 wolverian anatolyv, there is only one.
21:48 wolverian (that I see.)
21:50 anatolyv wolverian: in runtime, there may be many copies of $x. for example, imagine foo calls itself recursively with depth 100, every copy has its own $x.
21:50 anatolyv wolverian: by calling into inside bar() we don't give it any information on which runtime pad of foo() it should use to access $x.
21:50 wolverian it works in perl5! that's all I know! :)
21:51 anatolyv no it doesn't, that is, it doesn't return 5
21:53 [particle] sure, because you can't put a sub within a sub. but within a block, it works
21:53 wolverian well, right. it doesn't share it.
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21:55 anatolyv how is a block different?
21:55 anatolyv ?eval { my $x = 5; sub bar { $x; } }  bar()
21:55 evalbot_r14808 is now known as evalbot_r14809
21:55 evalbot_r14809 Error: ␤Unexpected "bar"␤expecting operator
21:55 [particle] ?eval { my $x = 5; sub bar { $x } }; bar()
21:55 evalbot_r14809 \5
21:56 [particle] semicolon
21:57 anatolyv ?eval sub foo { my $x = 5; sub bar { $x } }; bar()
21:57 evalbot_r14809 \undef
21:57 wolverian heh
21:57 anatolyv ?eval sub foo { my $x = 5; sub bar { "Can I put a sub within a sub?" } }; bar()
21:57 evalbot_r14809 "Can I put a sub within a sub?"
21:58 anatolyv I can, that doesn't seem to be the issue.
21:59 anatolyv ?eval my $y = { my $x = 5; sub bar { $x } }; bar()
21:59 evalbot_r14809 \undef
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22:52 svnbot6 r14810 | particle++ | MP6 - beginnings of object initialization
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22:57 svnbot6 r14811 | particle++ | MP6 (parrot) - use ResizablePMCArray, not PerlArray
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