Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2006-11-26

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:07 audreyt @tell agentzh thanks, YAML::Syck 0.72 is out
00:07 lambdabot Consider it noted.
00:15 xinming joined perl6
00:21 clkao audreyt: what's the right way to msgmerge svk po file?
00:22 audreyt msgmerge?
00:23 clkao it wants a pot file
00:24 audreyt just feed it a .po, no?
00:25 clkao will try tomorrow... must feed svk po into bablebee
00:25 clkao but sleepzz now
00:25 audreyt happy sleepzzing
00:31 qmole /2/
00:48 Limbic_Region audreyt - are you still mostly offline?
00:54 devogon joined perl6
00:57 audreyt Limbic_Region: unfortunately yes for another week or so
00:58 audreyt there's been a fairly sizable change in $real_space_life_as_I_know_it
00:59 audreyt hopefully for the better. we'll see.
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01:22 Limbic_Region salutations merlyn
01:34 wolverian audreyt, I hope it's for the better. take all the time you need. :)
01:35 audreyt it's looking better :)
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08:26 agentzh hey, it's fun to see the smartlinks in the pugs test suite are getting fewer and fewer. :)
08:26 lambdabot agentzh: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
08:28 anatolyv agentzh: is that a good or a bad thing?
08:29 agentzh oops, sorry, my mistake. :P
08:29 agentzh pugs has got many more smartlinks... :)
08:29 agentzh forgot to specify "t/*/*/*.t" :)
08:30 anatolyv :)
08:30 agentzh two months ago, smartlinks.pl reported "453 smartlinks found and 50 broken"
08:30 agentzh now it says "639 smartlinks found and 9 broken"
08:31 agentzh the pugs team has done a very job. :)
08:31 agentzh *very good
08:34 * agentzh tries to add damian's S26 to feather...
08:35 agentzh given that S26 is written in perl 6 POD, it may crash my smartlinks.pl horribly. :)
08:36 agentzh actually the latest S04 already breaks smartlinks.pl on feather.
08:36 agentzh alas...
08:37 anatolyv with perl6 POD stuff?
08:37 agentzh S04 is in perl 5 POD syntax, i think. it just has some syntax error in it.
08:38 agentzh S26 is in perl 6 POD syntax.
08:38 agentzh i'm looking forward to damian's perl 6 POD parser.
08:38 agentzh has it been released to CPAN yet?
08:38 anatolyv I don't think so, according to damian's latest in p6l.
08:39 agentzh okay, thanks. :)
08:47 agentzh oh no, svn.pugs.org is down...
08:47 agentzh (it seems to me)
08:49 agentzh anyone here has access to svn.pugs.org?
08:51 agentzh good, committed. :)
08:52 agentzh audreyt: it's interesting to see that i can't commit to http. fortunately https works for me (as usual) :)
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08:53 agentzh the sad thing is that pugs' new home is much much more slower than openfoundry on my side. :(
08:54 agentzh s/more//
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09:01 * agentzh looks for svnbot6.
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09:30 mugwump with class inheritance, we had "sub-class" to refer to a descendant.  What's a term for a role-implementor?
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09:31 mugwump ?eval { .does($_) } ** -1
09:32 mugwump oh, I guess "implementation" works
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09:33 elmex marmic: 'role implementor'
09:33 elmex ?
09:33 mugwump ie, I used to say;
09:34 mugwump "a Foo::Bar sub-class"
09:34 mugwump but if Foo::Bar is a role, then sub-class isn't right.  and neither is sub-role
09:34 mugwump but "a Foo::Bar implementation" doesn't sound too bad
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11:09 buu You can't subclass a role?
11:22 Juerd No, but you can implement a subclass
11:22 Juerd Or compose an anonymous class from a single role, and subclass from that.
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14:52 araujo perl6 topic?
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15:54 gaal [OT] was there a trick to write reusavle Perl 5 comparators in a module? (that didn't involve caller()...)
15:55 gaal *reusable
16:04 * Debolaz suspects gaal may be Elmer Fudd.
16:04 gaal wouldn't I have to pronounce it "weusawulle" if I were?
16:07 eviltwin_b b/v confusion is more like hispanic than elmer fudd :)
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16:15 Limbic_Region gaal - not sure I understand what you mean
16:16 gaal Limbic_Region: say I write a custom sort function e.g. to sort OIDs
16:16 gaal In Perl 5, this uses the magic $a and $b globals
16:16 gaal however these globals are not forced to package main:: like some other magicals are
16:16 gaal This means that I have to put my comparator function in the same module as its user
16:17 gaal (or hardcode the user's namespace into the comparator, or divine it with caller)
16:17 gaal I don't like any of these options :)
16:17 gaal One excellent solution is "write it in Perl 6 with placeholders!"
16:17 Limbic_Region I am still not clear but I know List::Util allows users to define stuff with $a and $b
16:18 gaal except that that doesn't moos in my production environment.
16:18 gaal *moose. moose moose moose
16:18 gaal what stuff?
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16:18 Limbic_Region gaal - like your reduce block
16:19 Limbic_Region $foo = reduce { defined($a) ? $a : wanted($b) ? $b : undef } undef, @list
16:19 gaal local(*{$caller."::a"}) = \my $a;
16:19 gaal ewwwwwwwwww
16:19 Limbic_Region hey, I didn't say it was a clean hack
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16:20 Limbic_Region but now I understand what you mean
16:20 Limbic_Region you want named vars defined in one package used in another package
16:20 Limbic_Region and not relying on $_[0] and friends
16:20 gaal I want implicit parameters.
16:20 Limbic_Region right
16:21 Limbic_Region well, without source filters or templating, I don't know of a way
16:21 gaal OK thanks.
16:21 Limbic_Region that isn't to say there isn't one - just that I don't know of one
16:22 gaal ack, ack.
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16:28 Debolaz I notice when building pugs that it says ghc 6.4.2 produces a slower pugs than ghc 6.6, how much performance increase does ghc 6.6 give pugs?
16:31 Limbic_Region Debolaz - it varies with platform but it is significant
16:31 Limbic_Region very significant
16:31 Limbic_Region further more, the next point release of Pugs will require 6.6 at a minimum
16:32 Debolaz Hrmm.. neither portage, pkgsrc or ports has ghc 6.6 :/
16:33 * Debolaz is building it manually atm.
16:33 eviltwin_b but if you use haskell for anything other than pugs, you might want to keep 6.4 around --- seems to be a lot of stuff hat doesn't work with 6.6 yet
16:34 Debolaz Not other than trying out darcs.
16:35 Limbic_Region well, keeping multiple branches around is easy
16:38 Debolaz Why will it require ghc 6.6 though? Not complaining about this, just curious.
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16:59 merlyn cpan Perl6::Pugs is failing with ghc 6.6 - is this expected?
16:59 merlyn do I need to go to the SVN to get something I can install today?
17:02 wolverian in general, svn is a good idea.
17:03 wolverian however, I don't think that's expected.
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17:09 Limbic_Region Debolaz - there are features that Pugs will be using for its object model that are only available in 6.6
17:10 Limbic_Region Debolaz - and the next projected point release for pugs is 6.28 (objects)
17:10 * Limbic_Region checks to see if he is having the same issue as merlyn
17:11 Limbic_Region merlyn - failing how?
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18:02 Debolaz *Sigh*
18:02 * Debolaz discovers the importance of extralibs
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18:12 Limbic_Region Debolaz - yes, that's new with 6.6 though on Win32 they are there by default
18:21 * Debolaz restarts compilation.
18:21 Debolaz Expected completion time: Tomorrow. :/
18:22 Limbic_Region really - takes less than 2 hours on this box.
18:26 Debolaz I'm running it in vmware on a 2.6 GHz machine.
18:27 Debolaz It took roughly 4 hours to compile without extralibs.
18:27 Debolaz And there are no precompiled binary packages.
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18:58 Limbic_Region salutations diotalevi_
18:59 diotalevi_ Aloha, LR.
19:00 Limbic_Region things are pretty slow ATM
19:01 diotalevi_ Yes, pretty much.
19:02 diotalevi_ Reinstalling emacs and I wanted to validate that p5's smartmatch had the same tests as p6's.
19:03 diotalevi_ It was an idle thought anyway.
19:05 Limbic_Region is p5's smartmatch as advanced as p6's?
19:05 diotalevi_ Nope.
19:06 diotalevi_ But I got the idea that it might be wrongish.
19:06 diotalevi_ That's how I recalled it.
19:06 pmurias smatmatch is ~= in perl5
19:07 pmurias that is =~
19:07 diotalevi_ No, ~~.
19:08 diotalevi_ =~/!~ in p5 is just plain old regexp matching.
19:08 diotalevi_ ~~ in 5.9.wibble+ is akin to p6's smartmatch.
19:10 diotalevi_ See 'Smart matching in detail' in http://public.activestate.com/pub​/apc/perl-current/pod/perlsyn.pod.
19:10 lambdabot http://tinyurl.com/um8gs
19:12 pmurias thanks
19:12 pmurias i almost always type =~ wrong
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21:31 dduncan Has it been decided yet about what kinds of special values the various Perl 6 numeric types can represent ... eg, can both an Int and a Num store Inf, or just Num, or neither?
21:31 dduncan Similarly, do some machine architectures allow an int to store Inf, or just a float, or do some allow this in neither?
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22:08 * araujo wonders if the svn repo is down
22:10 eviltwin_b which repo?
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22:11 araujo http://svn.pugscode.org/pugs
22:11 lambdabot Title: Revision 14848: /
22:12 eviltwin_b that was working for me earlier
22:12 araujo A    pugs/src/Pugs/Val.hs-boot
22:12 eviltwin_b just did "svn up", seems fine to me
22:12 araujo it's stuck there
22:13 eviltwin_b mine finished.  did seem a little slow but that might be on my end
22:17 araujo mmm...
22:17 araujo not sure if i should interrupt it
22:25 araujo svn: REPORT request failed on '/pugs/!svn/vcc/default'
22:25 araujo svn: REPORT of '/pugs/!svn/vcc/default': Could not read response body: connection timed out. (http://svn.pugscode.org)
22:25 lambdabot Title: Perl6 Community Development Server
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22:45 Debolaz Well I'll be damned, ghc only took 3 hours when I had optimized the kernel a little bit. :)
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23:07 wilx And before?
23:11 Debolaz 4,5 hours for ghc alone, not extralibs. 3 hours for the whole shebang now. That was quite an improvement.
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23:42 mugwump anyone know what U+416B 䅫 means, and the Mandarin pinyin ?
23:50 Debolaz Hmm, what's the perl 6 equivalent of @ARGV?
23:50 mugwump @*ARGS or something iirc
23:50 lambdabot Unknown command, try @list
23:50 stevan Debolaz: some of the examples/ likely use the command line
23:52 Debolaz Oh noes, I can't resolve svn.pugscode.org :/
23:57 Gothmog_ Debolaz: 194.145.200.126
23:58 Debolaz Weird, doesn't seem to be a local problem, anything else resolves just fine.

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