Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2006-12-05

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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03:24 nperez something i've never considered
03:25 nperez what happens if the underlying object in a POE::Session suddenly becomes undef?
03:25 nperez using object_states
03:25 nperez crap
03:25 nperez wrong window
03:25 nperez :)
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06:22 audreyt dmq: ok, so the y2k entry didn't win me beer
06:22 lambdabot audreyt: You have 8 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
06:22 audreyt I now claim a winning entry. it's on CPAN now :)
06:22 audreyt @tell dmq http://perlcabal.org/~audreyt/​tmp/re-engine-PCRE-0.01.tar.gz
06:22 lambdabot Consider it noted.
06:24 audreyt @tell putter do you perhaps have tuits to turn re::override to use re::engine plumbings dmq hacked so we have a generic perlland overrride hook? see my PCRE entry for some readymade code :)
06:24 lambdabot Consider it noted.
06:40 gaal audreyt: needs an 'unimport' method too
06:40 gaal i wonder, is undef $^H{regcomp} sufficient for starters?
06:40 gaal also the filename says 0.01, but the Changes suggests 0.03 :)
06:40 gaal *poof*
06:41 Khisanth at least it doesn't have mismatching versions of different modules in different versions of the tarball!
06:55 audreyt    gfixed and uploading
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06:59 gaal yeah, hate software #68712: when installing Net::SSLeay with PREFIX, you have to say perl Makefile.PL -- PREFIX=... because it bundles another module tarball inside it and the directive doesn't propagate otherwise
06:59 gaal *repoof*
07:00 gaal { temp unpoof; note("--") }
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07:30 wolverian gaal, I wonder how you found that out. seems pretty arbitrary.
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07:45 * ayrnieu thinks of we.hates-software.com
08:03 gaal wolverian: trial and tribulation...
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10:18 avar gaal: yeah, I noticed that too
10:18 avar that pisses me off every time I install Net::SSLeay
10:20 avar avar@Arsia:/tmp/Net_SSLeay.pm-1.30$ perl Makefile.PL PREFIX=/my/usr/local/is/here
10:20 avar Checking for OpenSSL-0.9.6j or 0.9.7b or newer...
10:20 avar I could not find your OpenSSL in `PREFIX=/my/usr/local/is/here'
10:21 avar oh that's another issue actually
10:21 avar it doesn't assume that your PREFIX also has the openssl libs (should it?)
10:23 broquaint IIRC, PREFIX is where stuff is going, it shouldn't change how it looks for libs.
10:24 avar yeah
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10:39 gaal that's just a default where-to-look-for-them thing. you can enter e.g. /usr at the prompt there and it'll work. the problem i was moosing about was that come install time, N:S is installable but its bundled N:S:Handle is not, because it didn't inherit PREFIX and so wants to be installed in the default system location.
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11:40 xinming hello all
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15:47 kolibrie fglock: I'm installing v6.pm from CPAN, but most (if not all) tests are failing to compile
15:47 pasteling "kolibrie" at 66.239.158.2 pasted "fglock: test compilation failures for CPAN v6.pm" (21 lines, 952B) at http://sial.org/pbot/21624
15:48 kolibrie fglock: any ideas what I should try?
15:49 pmichaud are there any accessors/methods defined for Range objects?
15:49 pmichaud (i.e., in the synopses)
15:54 fglock kolibrie: looking
15:58 fglock pmichaud: not afaik; there are some old notes in docs/notes
15:58 pmichaud fglock: okay, thanks.  That's sorta what I figured.
15:58 fglock kolibrie: try updating Module::Compile ?
15:58 kolibrie fglock: okay
15:59 fglock pmichaud: imo, Range should behave just like List
15:59 pmichaud fglock: sure, but one might want to have special methods to obtain the min/max of the range
16:00 fglock and also deal with '~~'
16:01 pmichaud exactly
16:04 pmichaud from t/operators/range.t:
16:04 pmichaud is ~(1 ..^ 4.9), "1 2 3"  , "upper exclusive limit is truncated";
16:04 pmichaud that looks wrongish to me -- I think it ought to be "1 2 3 4"
16:11 kolibrie fglock: removed all copies of Module::Compile, reinstalled Module::Compile 0.20, v6.pm tests still getting same errors
16:12 kolibrie :(
16:12 fglock pmichaud: some info scattered in the specs: s03 - .min and .max values (which change as they are iterated); s09- You can use ranges as types; :by(2); 2..1:by(-1); alphabetic ranges; Range object smartmatches the endpoints
16:12 pmichaud fglock: excellent
16:13 fglock kolibrie: another possible problem, you may have a devel version of PCR installed
16:13 wolverian pmichaud, I suppose it's an integer range, so the exclusivity drops the 4
16:13 pmichaud wolverian: but later in the test we have is ~(1.9 ^..^ 4.9), "2 3", "both exclusive limits are truncated";
16:14 pmichaud er,
16:14 pmichaud is ~(1.9 ^..^ 4.9), "2 3", "both exclusive limits are truncated";
16:14 wolverian pmichaud, that looks correct to me as well. it's 1 ^..^ 4
16:14 wolverian pmichaud, (that is, assuming integers.)
16:14 kolibrie fglock: I deleted all 'Pugs' directories from my site_perl, thinking that might be the case.  Are there other namespaces to delete?
16:16 fglock maybe infix<..> has signature (int, int)
16:16 pmichaud wolverian: oh, so the arguments to infix:.. has in... yes, what fglock just said
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16:16 TimToady I don't think so
16:16 pmichaud I wouldn't think so either :-)
16:16 TimToady ~(1.9 ^..^ 4.9) should produce 2.9, 3.9
16:17 pmichaud oooooh
16:17 wolverian ah. that is more comfortable indeed.
16:17 TimToady with handwave at floating-point issues
16:17 pmichaud and ~(1.9 ^..^ 4.5) would produce the same?
16:17 TimToady yes
16:17 pmichaud okay, that helps a bunch
16:18 pmichaud I'll see about updating the tests
16:18 fglock kolibrie: I'll reinstall
16:18 wolverian hrm. rationals?
16:18 TimToady rats would presumably help with that.
16:18 pmichaud I haven't done a lot of test updates in pugs; any conventions I should be aware of ?
16:18 kolibrie TimToady: and what if you want 2.0, 2.1, 2.2,... 4.4?
16:19 pmichaud kolibrie: 2.0..4.4:by(0.1) ?
16:19 kolibrie is that :by(0.1)
16:19 TimToady why not?
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16:19 kolibrie okay
16:19 wolverian TimToady, would all floating point values be rats, or just when the signature says so?
16:19 TimToady I think maybe .. stores all its args as rats but produces floats/ints
16:20 pmichaud looks like I'll need a rat type in parrot :-)
16:20 pmichaud a parrat :-)
16:20 TimToady by and large I don't like rats
16:20 pmichaud (I'll obviously cheat and use float for a while)
16:21 TimToady I think that's fine.
16:21 pmichaud TimToady++  # thanks for quick answer
16:21 wolverian I've had some rats under my shirt. it wasn't unpleasant, surprisingly.
16:21 TimToady I had a lizard up my pantleg once...
16:21 wolverian (now, pants would have been something else)
16:21 TimToady that was not pleasant
16:22 wolverian ouch. did you hop around?
16:22 TimToady no, I stood there hollering at my mom with my hands around my thigh to keep it from going higher.
16:22 TimToady she told me to hobble over to the bathroom and take my pants off, which I did.
16:23 fglock kolibrie: same error here
16:23 TimToady the poor lizard thought it had found a nice dark cave to hide in...
16:23 clkao audreyt: doh, you should have bought this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/-/​1/hi/entertainment/6209658.stm
16:23 lambdabot Title: BBC NEWS | Entertainment | Auction frenzy over Hepburn dress
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16:25 kolibrie fglock: glad it's not just me
16:25 wolverian heh. I didn't realise at all you could use your hands like that. my survival points are negative, I think.
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16:31 fglock kolibrie: downgrading PCR to 0.17 works
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16:32 kolibrie fglock: okay, will try that
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16:33 kolibrie does pugs use the installed PCR, or the dev version in the pugs repository?
16:35 fglock kolibrie: not sure
16:35 svnbot6 r14866 | pmichaud++ | Updates to range.t tests.
16:35 svnbot6 r14866 | pmichaud++ | # 16:16 <TimToady> ~(1.9 ^..^ 4.9) should produce 2.9, 3.9
16:35 svnbot6 r14866 | pmichaud++ | # 16:17 <pmichaud> and ~(1.9 ^..^ 4.5) would produce the same?
16:35 svnbot6 r14866 | pmichaud++ | # 16:17 <TimToady> yes
16:37 pmichaud hmmmm
16:37 pmichaud my $x = 3.1^..6; say $x.min    produces ... ?
16:38 kolibrie hmm, doesn't look like pugs wants to compile for me either: ghc-6.6: unknown package: mtl
16:42 TimToady pmichaud: still produces 3.1
16:43 TimToady the min and max are just stored.  the ^ says how it's applied.
16:43 TimToady (likewise the :by is just stored, if any)
16:44 TimToady hmm, I wonder if :by should have any influence on a ~~ comparison...
16:45 TimToady $a ~~ 0..10 is defined as 0 <= $a <= 10, but
16:45 TimToady $a ~~ 0..10:by(1) might mean $a == any(0..10)
16:46 TimToady well, === really, since range might be nonnumeric
16:47 TimToady or it might just ignore the :by
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16:49 TimToady same distinction arises for strings, actually, but I don't know how to write the increment...
16:49 TimToady "bbb" ~~ 'a'..'z'  # true
16:49 TimToady "bbb" ~~ 'a'..'z':by($string_increment)  # false
16:50 TimToady I suppose it's better just to ignore the :by and force people to write any() explicitly if they mean that.
16:50 TimToady or carp about a "useless use of :by", or some such.
16:53 pmichaud TimToady: agreed (with all points)
16:53 pmichaud so, in 3.1^..6  the range object has to "know" that the lower bound is excluded
16:55 pmichaud that makes sense, since we need it to smartmatch that way
16:55 pmichaud okay, works for me
16:56 eviltwin_b kolibrie: make sure you have the ghc-extralibs package installed
16:56 pmichaud afk # lunch
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17:01 kolibrie eviltwin_b: I don't see a package called ghc-extralibs in debian
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17:03 eviltwin_b hm, I wouldn't know what debian calls it
17:03 eviltwin_b but ghc is typically distributed in stripped-down form, stuff like mtl lives in an extra package
17:04 kolibrie eviltwin_b: is there a specific filename I can look for?
17:05 eviltwin_b $prefix/lib/ghc-6.6/imports/Control/Monad/Cont.hi should do
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17:06 eviltwin_b (on debian I presume $prefix == /usr)
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17:07 kolibrie maybe usr/lib/mtl-1.0/ghc-6.6/Control/Monad/Cont.hi ?
17:07 kolibrie that's listed under libghc6-mtl-dev
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17:09 eviltwin_b that might well make sense if they unbundled it.  I don't have a debian (or indeed a linux) box to check; I'm on a Mac
17:09 eviltwin_b but that certainly sounds like the right file
17:09 kolibrie I'll try it
17:10 * Limbic_Region hangs his head in frustration
17:12 * Limbic_Region no longer has perl, pugs, mingw, cygwin, firefox, gvim, haskell, parrot, etc
17:14 kolibrie fglock; with PCR 0.17, v6 fails 3 subtests (two in 07-simple-multisubs.t and one in t/builtins/arity.t).  Anything I have to worry about?
17:18 TimToady Limbic_Region: are you programming a Java toaster or something?
17:21 Limbic_Region If it wasn't meant to be funny then no
17:21 Limbic_Region grrr - this client is eating half of what I type
17:21 Limbic_Region TimToady - if that's funny then I guess I should lookup what a Java toaster is
17:22 Limbic_Region the 3rd line should have preceded the 1st
17:23 Limbic_Region in any case - just a difference of opinion between local ISSO and parent organization.  Until the differences are worked out I have removed all software not installed from image
17:25 wolverian Limbic_Region, ...and soon they'll let you go because you're not productive anymore?

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