Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2006-12-12

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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01:38 TreyHarris audreyt's email seems to be broken, anyone know anything about that?
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01:45 audreyt TreyHarris: registerfly.com's email forwarding is completely hosted
01:47 TreyHarris audreyt: ahh, if you have a backup address could you privmsg it to me?
01:48 audreyt TreyHarris: audreyt.org at gmail.com
01:48 TreyHarris thanks!
01:49 audreyt np # back to sleep
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06:00 * Tene composes presentation for the major utah lug.
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09:13 Tene one of the examples contains "say for sort keys %bad".
09:14 Tene That doesn't seem to work for me.  Should it?  That syntax only prints blank lines for me.
09:15 Tene I need to use "say $_ for sort keys %hash"
09:15 audreyt .say for sort
09:15 audreyt which example has that?
09:16 Tene examples/qotw/009r/spel.pl
09:18 audreyt fixed
09:19 svnbot6 r14882 | audreyt++ | examples/qotw/009r/spel.pl:
09:19 svnbot6 r14882 | audreyt++ | * Change the bogus "sort for ...;" statement to ".sort for ...".
09:19 svnbot6 r14882 | audreyt++ |   Tene++ for noticing this.
09:19 svnbot6 r14882 | audreyt++ | * Change "$str.split(/\s+/)" to the more canonical "$str.comb".
09:41 xinming welcome back, audreyt
09:41 xinming :-)
09:43 audreyt for some definition of "back" :)
09:43 audreyt ADSL and electricity and furniture finally set up as of today
09:43 audreyt so except for total exhaustion, I think I have backspace now, yeah :)
09:43 wolverian furniture? pfft :)
09:44 audreyt yes, furniture. and scooba!
09:44 * audreyt loves her new robotic pet
09:44 audreyt pondering whether to get roomba too
09:46 wolverian are they high-mainteinance?
09:46 audreyt zero-.
09:46 audreyt well, scooba doesn't have that plug-itself-in feature
09:47 audreyt so you still need to charge it once in a while and fill in water
09:47 audreyt but other than that it's self-motivating
09:50 clkao audreyt :D
09:59 xinming audreyt: hmm. could you please answer my question? :-P
10:01 xinming BTW, where are you? in TaiWan?
10:01 audreyt xinming: which question what that? (yes i'm in taipei)
10:03 clkao audreyt: does it dump the sac by itself as well?
10:04 xinming audreyt: hmm, about programming language suggestion, I ever read pugs blog, and found the someone said that you suggested him to learn 4 languages. haskell/lisp/ and...
10:04 xinming I just can remember haskell. >_<
10:06 audreyt didn't remember
10:06 audreyt io? scala?
10:14 audreyt bbiab
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10:19 nothingmuch hi audreyt
10:19 nothingmuch wb
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10:50 svnbot6 r14883 | fglock++ | MP6-perl5 - reuse 'Bind' for subroutine param list
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11:46 xinming audreyt: thanks anyway. >_<
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13:53 masak audreyt: wb. congrats on the ADSL, electricity and furniture
13:53 audreyt thanks! :)
13:54 nothingmuch and the moose
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13:58 Debolaz Is it just me or does ruby strive for less obfuscation than perl 5 and perl 6 strives for more?
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14:07 Limbic_Region audreyt - are you like back to the land of the living or still in some state of half life?
14:09 audreyt back to land of living, I think, though it's a bit late here and I need to sleep :) but nothing blocks me from hacking again, woot.
14:09 ayrnieu debolaz - sorry, I've no idea what you mean by 'obfuscation', here.
14:10 kolibrie hey, audreyt's back!  welcome!
14:12 audreyt thanks :) it's been a minor hell setting up a new residence :)
14:12 audreyt and my withdrawal from not having wireless net surprised even myself :)
14:16 * kolibrie still has dial-up at home, and keeps hoping the fiber lines buried in the neighborhood a year and a half ago will get lit sometime
14:25 Limbic_Region well, congrats and sleep well
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14:28 audreyt g'nite :)
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16:58 nwc10 perl -wle 'print"&%#+"|"`}[@"&reverse$^X while!select$,,$,,$%,1/$]'
16:58 nwc10 will run faster under perl 6 :-)
16:59 TimToady it will, however, produce different output
17:00 nwc10 :-)
17:00 nwc10 even if $^X still ends "perl" ?
17:00 TimToady let's see.  there's no select. | does something different
17:00 TimToady keywords and listops require a space after them.
17:01 nwc10 gosh. yes. I'm forgetting junctions
17:01 TimToady there's no $,
17:01 TimToady or $%
17:01 nwc10 it didn't work under perl 4 either :-)
17:01 TimToady or $] for that matter.
17:01 TimToady other than that, should work fine.
17:02 TimToady oh yes, and no $^X either.
17:02 nwc10 will there still be 4 argument select?
17:02 nwc10 and will the perl6 parser get upset by my "" string ending @ ?
17:03 TimToady no, it won't get upset at that.
17:03 TimToady you can't interpolate an array without [] in perl 6.
17:03 TimToady so you have to say @foo[] to get it to interpolate
17:03 TimToady so email addresses are safe now
17:04 TimToady I don't think either select will be there.  possibly you can get at the old 4-arg select with use POSIX or some such.
17:05 TimToady but async will be built-in to the language at a lower level.
17:05 TimToady if you just want to sleep a while, say sleep(0.25) or whatever.
17:05 nwc10 I was about to type something like that :-)
17:06 TimToady the time interfaces are biased towards floating point in P6
17:07 nwc10 as to something on-topic, last night I got to the point of making PVBM in blead the same size as PVMG
17:07 nwc10 so tonight I think I can eliminate it, and free up a type for doing proxies for 6 on 5
17:08 TimToady cool!
17:08 nwc10 but someone else can do that, because I'm not sure how to do it :-)
17:09 nwc10 I don't think that it matters if it's done pre 5.10 - I think it can be added in 5.10.1 or 5.10.2 without breaking binary compatibility.
17:09 TimToady as long as the enum is reserved...
17:09 nwc10 exactly.
17:09 TimToady sounds like a plan
17:09 nwc10 still not totally sure what to do about SVt_PVBM - I think I need to #define it to SVt_PVMG outside PERL_CORE
17:10 nwc10 Did you see Aaron Crane's message to perl5-porters about Named-capture regex syntax?
17:10 TimToady recent?
17:10 TimToady haven't read p5p for a couple of weeks...
17:11 nwc10 After chatting with dmq (possibly after my question from the audience in dmq's talk) he's wondering if (+<name>pattern) would be better than (?
17:11 nwc10 Today. Hot off the proess
17:11 nwc10 For anyone wanting to put a face to dmq: http://www.flickr.com/phot​os/matthewblack/318954738/
17:11 lambdabot Title: DSCF0051 on Flickr - Photo Sharing!
17:12 nwc10 Actually, the message was 1 hour ago. So not surprised if you'd not seen it
17:12 nwc10 I'm just hating some work code.
17:13 nwc10 so was reading other e-mail
17:13 TimToady eek, I haven't even started drinking my coffee.
17:14 nwc10 So why are you on IRC? :-)
17:15 nwc10 I also got PVGV to the same size as PVMG, but I think that it would cause too much pain to merge them.
17:16 TimToady likely
17:18 TimToady my basic opinion is that P5 regex syntax is hopelessly tangled, so it doesn't much matter what you do to it anymore, as long as it doesn't confuse people with different semantics for the same syntax that P6 uses.
17:21 nwc10 Right. Seems sane.
17:21 nwc10 all the (?? confuse me a lot
17:23 broquaint The ?? pre-empt the confusion that follows.
17:23 TimToady ?? is read "highly questionable"... :)
17:23 PerlJam nwc10: me too, but I've gotten used to the shorter versions of <before: ...> and <after: ...> so much that I wish there were a syntactic shortcut for perl6  :-)
17:25 TimToady you can always define one.  :)
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18:40 szabgab evening,
18:41 szabgab does anyone know what happened to http://cpants.perl.org/ ?
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18:51 cognominal I have heard in #perlfr it is currently down
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20:15 GeJ møøse all
20:18 GeJ welcome back audreyt
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21:05 svnbot6 r14884 | kolibrie++ | added extract_pghpw.t showing how to extract data using a grammar
21:05 svnbot6 r14884 | kolibrie++ | unfortunately, not all the tests seem to pass
21:09 kolibrie with util/prove6 --pugs, I get skipped tests - rules support appears to be missing
21:09 kolibrie with util/prove6 --perl5, I get Can't locate object method "presenter" via package "Pugs::Grammar::Base"
21:10 kolibrie but it mostly works on an old pugs repo I haven't updated since late summer
21:10 kolibrie except for the emitter part
21:16 kolibrie @tell fglock see t/regex/extract_pghpw.t http://colabti.de/irclogger/irclogger_log/​perl6?date=2006-12-12,Tue&amp;sel=98#l231
21:16 lambdabot Consider it noted.
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22:26 nwc10 what's a good name for an SV type used for aliasing and binding in 6 on 5?
22:27 nwc10 4 letters or less (abbreviated is fine)
22:28 nwc10 existing names are in the enum near the top of http://public.activestate.com/cgi-bin/pe​rlbrowse?show_blame=Show+Annotated+File&​amp;filename=sv.h&amp;rev=&amp;change=
22:28 lambdabot Title: Blamelog for sv.h, http://tinyurl.com/y8cw8r
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23:10 cognominal "canonical time" appears many time in the synopsis about statement. I suppose it means that optimizer is not allowed to evaluate the statement prematuraly
23:10 cognominal am I right?
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23:21 TimToady cognominal: it can evaluate it early if it has no side effects, but if there are side effects, they must happen when the naïve NFA engine would fire off the closure.
23:21 cognominal thx TimToady
23:24 Limbic_Region oh hey cognominal - I meant to respond to your inquiry into CPAN oddities
23:24 Limbic_Region something that might be worth perusing is the alternates to 1; at the end of modules to indicate truth
23:24 cognominal Limbic_Region: you probably mean cog instead of cognominal?
23:24 Limbic_Region in my non-CPAN modules I use "This statement is false";
23:25 Limbic_Region cog ne cognomial?
23:25 cognominal nope
23:25 * Limbic_Region smacks forehead
23:25 Limbic_Region nope, definately not
23:25 Limbic_Region heh
23:26 cognominal I tried very hard to find a nick not used (much) anywhere in the but never thought it would be confused with cog.
23:26 cognominal s/in the/$& net/
23:26 Limbic_Region that's my fault for assuming (and not /whois ing)
23:26 Limbic_Region my apologies
23:27 cognominal no harm done.
23:28 cognominal I went to lpw and jonathan and demerphq did very good presentations on respectively Perl 6 and Perl 6 regex in Perl 5.10
23:29 cognominal I am thrilled to see how Perl 6 revigorates Perl 5
23:29 cognominal rgs will have trouble to push out 5.10 with all these new features
23:30 rgs well, no (I hope)
23:31 cognominal l'espoir fait vivre...
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23:39 Limbic_Region perl 5.10 is probably the only language inheriting from the future (or something like that)
23:40 Limbic_Region rgs - are you staying on as release pumpking?
23:40 Limbic_Region after 5.10 that is
23:41 Limbic_Region if so, just get 5.10 out the door and start working on 5.12
23:49 nwc10 there is this small matter of making sure that 5.10 is correct
23:53 avar wasn't 5.10 going to run on parrot?
23:53 nwc10 no, that was a misconception
23:55 Debolaz Is there a whatsnew somewhere on perl 5.10?
23:56 nwc10 well, sort of.
23:56 nwc10 the changes from 5.9.4 to 5.9.5 are in {dump.c,sv.h,sv.c,util.c,ext/Stora​ble/Storable.xs,pod/perltodo.pod}
23:56 nwc10 oops.
23:56 nwc10 http://public.activestate.com/cgi-bin/perlbr​owse?show_file=Show+Plain+File&amp;filename=​pod%2Fperl595delta.pod&amp;rev=&amp;change=
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23:57 nwc10 and then http://public.activestate.com/cgi-bin/perlbr​owse?show_file=Show+Plain+File&amp;filename=​pod%2Fperl594delta.pod&amp;rev=&amp;change=
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23:57 nwc10 actually, easier to work back staring with http://search.cpan.org/~rgarcia/​perl-5.9.4/pod/perl594delta.pod
23:58 nwc10 and then http://search.cpan.org/~rgarcia/​perl-5.9.4/pod/perl593delta.pod
23:58 nwc10 there will be one perl510delta.pod, with it all in, but it's not written yet
23:59 cognominal I really would like to see something similar to grammar in perl 5.10

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