Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2007-02-07

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:01 Limbic_Region @tell audreyt forgot to wish you a happy pugs bday
00:01 lambdabot Consider it noted.
00:01 moritz looks scary ;)
00:02 Limbic_Region moritz - it is scarier than it needs to be
00:02 Limbic_Region mortiz - functional programming languages are weird when it comes to purity
00:04 Limbic_Region judging from the irc logs, it looks like audreyt has returned
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00:22 moritz Limbic_Region: in the last comment on http://use.perl.org/~Aristotle/journal/30896 the example is really simple and non-scary => now I think I have an idea what that's all about ;)
00:22 lambdabot Title: Journal of Aristotle (5147)
00:26 diotalevi Y is simpler if you toss a few sacred cows out. Y isn't necessary if you're in Perl 6. :-)
00:27 * Limbic_Region pointed to your discussion on the topic diotalevi
00:27 Limbic_Region but I forgot the implicitness of it in Perl 6 as pointed out by stvn
00:29 diotalevi Y's typical implementation a as combinator strives to have minimum (preferring zero) identifiers. In a simple Y I'd say C<< $p = { ... }; $p->( $p ) >> but that's against the goal of having unnecessary identifiers.
00:30 diotalevi So you see {...}->( {...} ) with ... duplicated on both sides and that's hard to read. Purer though. I guess.
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00:36 buu diotalevi: It's horrifying.
00:36 buu ?eval (1,2,3,(((((((((5)))))))))
00:36 svnbot6 r15205 | moritz++ | corrected ennumeration of tests
00:36 evalbot_r15204 Error: ␤Unexpected end of input␤expecting operator or ")"
00:36 diotalevi It's still really useful.
00:37 buu Hrmph.
00:37 diotalevi I used Y to good effect when writing Devel::Spy.
00:37 buu ?eval (1,2,3,(((((((((5))))))))))
00:37 evalbot_r15204 (1, 2, 3, 5)
00:37 buu Hrm.
00:37 diotalevi It doesn't typically matter how it works. You can use it without getting it.
00:42 TimToady You talking about Perl?  :)
00:42 TimToady The P combinator.  :)
00:42 Limbic_Region heh
00:47 diotalevi TimToady++ for putting Y into Perl 6 under a *better* name.
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00:55 buu ?eval 1_2
00:55 evalbot_r15205 12
00:55 buu Really?
00:55 buu =[
00:55 buu ?eval $x_$y
00:55 evalbot_r15205 Error: ␤Unexpected "$y"␤expecting "::", term postfix or operator
00:55 diotalevi 1_000, buu.
00:55 buu Er, what is concat?
00:56 allbery_b ~ IIRC
00:56 buu ?eval $x~$y
00:56 allbery_b ?eval "a'~"b"
00:56 evalbot_r15205 ""
00:56 evalbot_r15205 Error: ␤Unexpected "b"␤expecting term postfix or operator
00:56 allbery_b oops
00:56 allbery_b ?eval "a"~"b"
00:56 evalbot_r15205 "ab"
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01:16 svnbot6 r15206 | lwall++ | most of rule syntax hacked into grammar
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02:40 svnbot6 r15207 | lwall++ | most of the quote forms now hacked in, except for the hard bits
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05:27 * cj hugs lwall
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05:58 * TimToady is extremely grateful for the hug
06:03 * partclCoke wonders what timezone TimToady is in.
06:03 allbery_b @time TimToady
06:03 lambdabot Local time for TimToady is Tue Feb  6 22:03:39 2007
06:12 svnbot6 r15208 | lwall++ | character classes
06:12 svnbot6 r15208 | lwall++ | fatarrow pairs, colon pairs including radix numbers, adverbs
06:12 svnbot6 r15208 | lwall++ | rx// syntax but still need sublanguage dispatcher
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07:30 svnbot6 r15209 | lwall++ | heredoc indentation implemented as per spec
07:30 svnbot6 r15209 | lwall++ | heredoc now one-pass rather than previous bogus two-pass
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10:31 * Limbic_Region yawns
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13:16 cj TimToady: are we still winning?
13:19 VanilleBert ?eval my @a = 0,1,2,3,4; delete @a, 2; @a;
13:19 evalbot_r15209 [0, 1, undef, 3, 4]
13:19 VanilleBert delete @a, 2         is the same  as       @a[2] = undef    ??
13:22 VanilleBert thought it should make @a to  [0, 1, 3, 4]
13:24 Limbic_Region cj - winning what?
13:24 merlyn why would perl6 have to be that much unlike perl5?
13:25 merlyn (general lament) let's not break EVERYTHING we know about perl5 please!
13:26 Limbic_Region VanilleBert - Are you looking at the S29 in the pugs repo?
13:26 cj Limbic_Region: that's for you to decide of course :)
13:26 cj merlyn!  ltns :)
13:28 merlyn yeah delete there looks like it acts like perl5 delete
13:28 merlyn which should NEVER have been allowed on an array
13:28 merlyn stupid pseudohashes :(
13:29 merlyn we create pseudohashes, we then have to build up all sorts of weird things on arrays, then we deprecate pseudohashes. :(
13:29 Limbic_Region VanilleBert - http://svn.pugscode.org/pugs/​docs/Perl6/Spec/Functions.pod
13:29 Limbic_Region grrr - I think I am lagging
13:29 Limbic_Region in the event my text ever shows up, the only time delete works like splice apparently is if it happens at the end of an array - and then only if it doesn't violate another constraint
13:29 Limbic_Region VanilleBert - http://svn.pugscode.org/pugs/​docs/Perl6/Spec/Functions.pod
13:29 Limbic_Region in the event my text ever shows up, the only time delete works like splice apparently is if it happens at the end of an array - and then only if it doesn't violate another constraint
13:30 VanilleBert aha
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13:31 VanilleBert k, didnt know that before... i didn't used perl5 :D
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13:32 VanilleBert i posted in the perl6-users mailinglist a "remove" function which just do what i expected from delete
13:32 merlyn wow... why woudl someone be playing with perl6 in its current state if they have never used perl5?
13:32 merlyn that's pretty ... amazin to me.
13:32 merlyn is there a substantial crowd in that category?
13:33 merlyn I suspect that 80% of the perl6 users were former perl5 users.
13:33 merlyn maybe I'm way off
13:33 VanilleBert yes :D it is amazing... just watching the development of a new language... thats interesting :D
13:33 merlyn s/were/will be/
13:34 merlyn if the number is more than 20% "new to perl", I might want to rethink how "Learnign Perl" for perl6 will look
13:34 cj you could call it "Lurning Perl"
13:34 VanilleBert perl5 didnt looked very well, i didnt like it from the first sight... but perl6 was different :D
13:34 qmole_ i'm not sure. i guess there's a lot of people from the haskell/fp crowd that were introduced to perl6 by pugs and haven't done all that much perl5
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13:35 merlyn how many of those will stick around when pugs goes away though?
13:35 cj audreyt++
13:35 Limbic_Region merlyn - there are a number of lamdacamels that were previously only lamdas prior to pugs and perl 6
13:35 cj pugs is going away!?
13:35 merlyn I mean, haskell is nice, but it's not part of the final delivery
13:35 cj yeah, I s'pose we're going to be bootstrapping ourselves eventually
13:35 merlyn which will be perl6 written in perl6 compiling to parrot
13:36 Limbic_Region ok, must be lagging again
13:36 merlyn I see Limbic_Region off in the distance!  Hi LR!
13:37 * Limbic_Region shakes his head
13:37 merlyn LR - it's 2007 here... what year is it there? :)
13:38 merlyn and also what is is here is 29 cents a minute, so I'm getting off this satellite connection ... laters.
13:39 cj later, merlyn
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13:47 * smash greetings
13:49 gaal [ot] is PAUSE b0rked? i'm seeing lots of "Debug: stat[-1]ret[] (paused:620)" in the log
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14:33 gaal nice paper on programming shorthands: ftp://ftp.research.microsof​t.com/pub/tr/tr-2000-03.ps
14:38 Grrrr gaal: re: PAUSE: it would appear so  :-(
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14:41 moritz is open() implemented in pugs?
14:41 moritz ?eval open(my $f, "/etc/passwd")
14:42 evalbot_r15209 Error: Unsafe function 'Pugs::Internals::openFile' called under safe mode
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14:48 moritz allright, I see it is ;)
14:49 partclCo1e ?eval say "wah, the tcl irc bot can't do this much!"
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14:50 evalbot_r15209 OUTPUT[wah, the tcl irc bot can't do this much!␤] Bool::True
14:53 gaal moritz: yeah, and pipey opens are also supported.
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15:02 moritz who can I set the input separator for readline?
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18:49 svnbot6 r15210 | lwall++ | The heredoc parser assumed that string returned by parser was contiguous
18:49 svnbot6 r15210 | lwall++ | (which it's not if there's any interpolation).  But we can't just have the
18:49 svnbot6 r15210 | lwall++ | text parser remove whitespace because we don't know how much till the end.
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20:25 nothingmuch ingy: sweetie, Module::Compile is broken
20:25 nothingmuch it only regenerates .pmcs occasionally
20:25 nothingmuch i don't know since when but it caused me like 3 broken releases
20:25 nothingmuch and then stevan said he has it too
20:26 nothingmuch so i wasn't drunk or something, it appears
20:27 NewCoke I find it helps to drink before using Ingy's modules.
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20:31 diotalevi Drinking helps afterward too.
20:34 gaal PAUSE debroke, in happier news.
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22:19 gaal @tell putter we rolled a 1.02, if you're still using this stuff your input's welcome!
22:19 lambdabot Consider it noted.
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23:18 beppu @babel gr en sacrum fidelitat
23:18 lambdabot Plugin `babel' failed with: IRCRaised Error: Language gr not supported
23:20 Limbic_Region @babel german english guten tag
23:20 lambdabot  good day
23:20 Limbic_Region perlbot .gr
23:20 perlbot .gr is Greece
23:20 Limbic_Region perlbot .en
23:20 Limbic_Region hrm
23:20 Limbic_Region @babel greek english sacrum fidelitat
23:20 lambdabot  sacrum fidelitat
23:21 Limbic_Region beppu - what were gr and en short for?
23:22 beppu greek and english, but then I realized the phrase was latin (I think...)
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23:56 Limbic_Region @babel latin english sacrum fidelitat
23:56 lambdabot Plugin `babel' failed with: IRCRaised Error: Language latin not supported

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