Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2007-02-14

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 eric256 joined perl6
00:00 Patterner UCSD P-Code was easy. 0-127 was just "push yourself on the stack." :)
00:02 jisom and do you mean how there are 16 opcodes to test for equality?
00:03 svnbot6 r15259 | lwall++ | more {*} hooks
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00:03 jisom dozens for assignment btw
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00:13 eric256 is there a commit log anywhere?
00:14 moritz svn log -r $start_revision:$end_revision I guess ;)
00:14 svnbot6 r15260 | moritz++ | Added tests for PRE and POST subroutine traits
00:14 jisom do you use tcsh?
00:14 eric256 i meant a web based one...there used to be a web based one that linked to the changes so you could easily see what had been done
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00:17 moritz eric256: http://dev.pugscode.org/browser <-- something like that?
00:17 lambdabot Title: / - Pugs - Trac
00:18 moritz eric256: you can order that by date as well...
00:18 eric256 yea i ithink i found it...that is hard enough to find! ;)
00:19 moritz that's a bit of a problem... you can't find all the docs :(
00:19 Psyche^ is now known as Patterner
00:20 eric256 there doesn't seem to be *one* place to go to get all the right links, for instance if pugscode.org could link to feather and the dev server etc life would be much easier ;)
00:20 eric256 i'm outta her..later
00:21 * moritz is going to bed as well.. soon ;)
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00:30 lichtkind bight
00:30 lichtkind night
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01:04 Coke (collada) (will coleda. aka Coke)
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01:42 shamu anyone interested in fielding a source filter question?  It's a perl 5 question, but I was hoping to ask here because I suspect the population is a bit more sophisticated in this channel.  If you can recommend another channel, I'd appreciate it.
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01:56 TimToady Sorry, we're not more sophisticated, just more elitist.  :)
01:58 jisom_ is now known as jisom
02:00 shamu Well, I'll put my toe in the water anyway ... :-)
02:01 shamu I was wondering if someone had heard of a filter that would let me test individual subs in a monolithic script
02:01 shamu e.g., a subsidiary script 'testdb.pl' that could have a line of the form
02:01 shamu IMPORT_SUB 'db_connect';
02:02 shamu IMPORT_SUB 'foo.pl:db_connect';
02:02 shamu the source filter would pull db_connect's prototype out of foo.pl and stick it near the top of the test script, and pull the sub body out and put it near the bottom
02:03 shamu that way people developing foo.pl could keep working and the test script could test the functions by referring into it
02:03 shamu I looked at the source filter stuff, but it looked a bit daunting
02:11 TimToady hmm, no clue myself
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03:11 ingy hi Squern
03:11 ingy gah
03:16 audreyt @seen clkao
03:16 lambdabot clkao is in #perl6. I don't know when clkao last spoke.
03:17 ingy hi audreyt
03:18 audreyt heya. my ALT level is 3000+; statistically I should be unconscious :)
03:18 lambdabot audreyt: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
03:18 audreyt so they're modding my immune system now
03:19 audreyt which means I need to get hospitalized for at least another week :/
03:19 tene yay, fun.
03:20 audreyt lots of fun
03:20 ingy sorry audreyt
03:20 ingy do you see my msgs?
03:20 audreyt yeah
03:20 ingy ok
03:20 ingy take care then
03:20 ingy should I call 911.tw?
03:20 audreyt nope, I'm already in a hospital
03:23 audreyt this lamivudine thing better work...
03:23 audreyt bbl :) &
03:25 cj woe
03:25 cj hey audreyt, ingy
03:25 cj paperwork makes me grumpy.
03:25 ingy hi cj
03:27 cj ingy: anything new and exciting in your world?
03:28 cj my manager is trying to talk me into switching our codebase from perl to java.  good fun there.
03:29 tene cj: why?
03:29 SamB obviously his manager is insane
03:30 cj tene: probably because a different tier is in java and they don't want to have to pass the service results from one format to another
03:30 tene there are java-specific data formats that perl can't talk to?
03:31 cj tene: :)
03:31 tene Serious question.
03:32 cj tene: well, re-modeling the class structure in OOP based on .wsdl files doesn't always turn out so well
03:32 cj tene: there's something lost in the translation, you could say
03:32 tene Okay.
03:39 weinig is now known as jibot
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03:40 weinig is now known as weinig|bbl
03:41 clkao audreyt: jhi
03:45 audreyt clkao: 爆肝了
03:51 clkao audreyt: :/
03:51 clkao audreyt: you okay?
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06:10 svnbot6 r15261 | lwall++ | Got rid of "quote" declarator, just use a macro.
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07:07 svnbot6 r15262 | audreyt++ | * Chase S02/r13586 and change
07:07 svnbot6 r15262 | audreyt++ |     q:t / q:to
07:07 svnbot6 r15262 | audreyt++ |   to
07:07 svnbot6 r15262 | audreyt++ |     q:to / q:heredoc
07:07 svnbot6 r15262 | audreyt++ |   Also reflect this change in the tests and examples.
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07:09 masak way, audreyt++
07:09 masak hope you're feeling better soon, btw
07:09 audreyt also new bot to chase synopses changes
07:09 audreyt no prob. sad fact is that I still only get very limited time awake
07:10 audreyt so I need to go back and faint now :)
07:10 masak do so
07:10 masak it's probably a good step towards getting better
07:10 audreyt should be actively better within a week or so... &
07:11 masak that's the first non-worrying message so far. thank you
07:11 masak sleep, uh, unconsce well
07:14 wilx` is now known as wilx
07:14 GeJ I second that. Get some rest, and take care
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07:14 GeJ does anyone have the IP address for svn.pugscode.org?
07:15 GeJ The DNS servers I'm forced to use give me a SERVFAIL every now and then.
07:16 GeJ I should hardcode the IP somewhere
07:16 GeJ is it feather?
07:16 tene svn.pugscode.org.       300     IN      CNAME   perlcabal.org.
07:16 tene perlcabal.org.          300     IN      A       194.145.200.126
07:16 jisom 194.145.200.126
07:16 tene how are you forced to use specific DNS servers?
07:16 GeJ thank you gentlemen
07:16 jisom probably dhcp provided ones
07:17 jisom *could* use the root servers...
07:17 tene dig @someotherdnsserver svn.pugscode.org
07:17 GeJ tene ask my goddamn paranoid ISP. for the last month or so they decided that I should use their DNS and SMTP
07:18 tene they block other DNS requests?
07:18 jisom probably to restrict your web usage and track where you go and what you send, be afraid, be very afraid!!!
07:18 jisom or they're just trying to make it all more secure, who knows
07:19 GeJ This is just moronic.
07:20 allbery_b did they decide, or did twhoever's other DNS you were using blck recursive queries?
07:21 GeJ they block 25, but leave 587 untouched.
07:21 allbery_b or perhaps other problems, like ECE's blocks TCP so if a result is >512 bytes the fallback to TCP fails (thus, when I was using ECE's nameservers instead of Speakeasy's from home, I couldn't look up google.com)
07:22 allbery_b (or other akamaized services)
07:22 GeJ and for DNS, I just can't connect other boxes on 53
07:22 tene That's... lame.
07:22 tene What ISP?
07:22 allbery_b yug
07:23 allbery_b but, I'm betting I know why that is
07:23 GeJ small one on a small island in the middele of the pacific ocean
07:23 tene 'kay
07:23 allbery_b there's a virus out there that hammers a bunch of DNS servers to look up hosts from which it downloads its payload
07:23 allbery_b some ISPs have taken to forcing use of their DNS and blocking those queries
07:25 * allbery_b is having to deal with that one at work, someone panicked and called in the FBI on us because they have infected machines querying our nameservers
07:25 * allbery_b suspects some version of the virus has our nameservers on its shortlist
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08:16 svnbot6 r15263 | lwall++ | balanced brackets, some progress on quote languages
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10:51 dmq can the fact that \d matches all unicode digits be seen as a security vulnerability?
11:02 Juerd If something because of this receives unicode data, without supporting it correctly, possibly.
11:03 Juerd But that is true for anything - if something cannot support unicode data, the data must be encoded to an encoding that it can
11:05 Juerd s/<after encoding>/|charset/
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11:07 qasim Hi, I am trying to implement the client and server into one program and use the same program on both sides. can anyone point me to a script which already does that
11:08 Juerd qasim: A Perl 6 program?
11:08 qasim no perl 5.5 or before
11:08 dduncan try #perl instead
11:08 dduncan I think
11:08 Juerd qasim: Then try #perl. This channel is about the next version of Perl, which is still in development.
11:09 rgs nice article on gradual typing in LtU
11:09 qasim I have but no response from there...that is why shifted here
11:09 Juerd Next major version, that won't be out soon.
11:09 GeJ pomperoi!@#
11:09 Juerd qasim: Then try #perlhelp on efnet
11:09 wolverian er, perl 5.5?!
11:09 qasim thanks
11:09 rgs GeJ: hi
11:09 rgs dmq: exactly !
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12:12 dmq ok, then i wont worry about it
12:13 rindolf Hi rgs
12:17 rgs hi rindolf
12:27 rindolf rgs: what's up?
12:27 rgs rindolf: changed $job, now working with a bunch of crazy perl 5 people
12:27 rindolf rgs: I see.
12:27 rindolf rgs: still in Paris?
12:27 rgs ys
12:27 rgs yes, even
12:27 clkao rgs: congratz. having good fun?
12:27 rindolf Hi clkao
12:27 rgs clkao: so far yes :)
12:27 rindolf rgs: congrats.
12:27 Juerd rgs: Aren't all Perl people crazy?
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12:28 rgs Juerd: some more than others. You know Abigail ? :)
12:29 Juerd rgs: Yea
12:29 Juerd Abigail's a Amsterdam.pm regular
12:29 rgs (that was a rethorical question.)
12:29 Juerd I have no detector for those :)
12:29 rgs makes me think that I might be there at the next Amsterdam.pm meeting
12:31 Juerd Are you going to the hackathon?
12:31 rgs no
12:31 Juerd In .nl for other business?
12:32 rgs yes, like $work :)
12:33 clkao maybe i should go to the hackathon..
12:33 Juerd Oh, right. So much for the quality of my short term memory...
12:33 Juerd clkao: Of course you should :)
12:34 clkao hen is that again? 2nd ?
12:34 Juerd 2..4
12:34 Juerd Stay longer and you can come to the Amsterdam.PM technical meeting tuesday 6th :)
12:35 Juerd s/tuesday/Tuesday/  # silly language
12:35 rindolf Juerd: aren't names capitalised in Dutch as well?
12:35 Juerd rindolf: Names are, but parts of dates aren't names here :)
12:36 rindolf Juerd: so you say january?
12:36 rindolf And may, etc.
12:36 Juerd You could say it's the "name of the day", "name of the month"
12:36 Juerd But then "computer" would just be "name of the object", and you can start capitalizing everything.
12:36 Juerd rindolf: No, januari.
12:36 rindolf Juerd: ah.
12:36 rgs like in German
12:37 clkao Juerd: i only arrive uk on the 1st
12:37 Juerd rgs: They just capitalize nouns :)
12:37 rgs in English prose, important Nouns used to be capitalized to help index builders
12:37 Juerd rgs: "The" is the name of the article ;)
12:38 lichtkind joined perl6
12:39 Juerd (clipped nails)++  # now I can type again.
12:40 lichtkind Juerd++ :)
12:40 Juerd Hi lichtkind
12:40 lichtkind hello juerd see you next week in munich?
12:40 Juerd There's a small but existant chance I'll be there.
12:40 rindolf Hi lichtkind
12:40 Juerd existent.
12:41 Juerd Still have to re-arrange some stuff, and must find a cheap hostel that has wifi.
12:41 lichtkind hello rindolf whoever you are :)
12:41 Juerd Where are you staying?
12:41 lichtkind Juerd im in the koala
12:42 lichtkind i mean wombat hostel
12:42 Juerd Hahaha
12:42 Juerd Koala, wombat. Same difference :P
12:42 Juerd Do they have free wifi?
12:43 rindolf lichtkind: I'm Shlomi Fish, http://www.shlomifish.org/
12:43 lambdabot Title: Shlomi Fish' Homepage
12:43 rindolf lichtkind: what is your claim to fame.
12:43 rindolf ?
12:43 Juerd Weird. They have mixed dorms, and female dorms. No male dorms.
12:44 Juerd So good news for heterosexuals and lesbians :P
12:44 avar hehe:)
12:45 lichtkind juerd find out i dont know http://www.wombats-hostels.​de/munich-hostel/index.php
12:45 lambdabot Title: Wombats Hostel Munich popular Hostels in Munich Bavaria accommodation
12:45 Juerd lichtkind: Already there :)
12:45 rindolf Hi avar
12:45 Juerd I'm emailing them
12:46 lichtkind rindolf what you mean, please speak simple im not native speaker, onle german and zcech
12:46 Juerd They say there's "internet access".
12:46 rindolf lichtkind: OK.
12:46 Juerd In my experience, that means that they have a locked down EUR 5 per 15 minutes web browser terminal.
12:46 lichtkind they mean desktop pc i think
12:46 lichtkind yeah yeah
12:46 avar rindolf: hi
12:46 rindolf avar: what's up?
12:47 avar hrm, the usual, hacking @ wrk;)
12:47 rindolf avar: nice.
12:47 lichtkind rindolf i heard the name slomy fish, do you mean for what im famous fore?
12:48 rindolf lichtkind: what is your claim to fame means what most people know you for, or what notable things did you do.
12:48 rindolf lichtkind: and it's Shlomi Fish, not Slomy Fish.
12:49 lichtkind are you jew?
12:49 rindolf lichtkind: I'm Jewish, yes.
12:49 rindolf lichtkind: and Israeli.
12:49 Juerd And probably the weirdest contributor to Perl 6 :)
12:49 Juerd (Which all started with a freshmeat post...)
12:49 lichtkind ah cool im great fan of jewish wisdom, i study ist a lot, but not so much of the religion :)
12:50 * Juerd doesn't like religion in general.
12:50 rindolf lichtkind: I'm an Atheist.
12:50 rindolf lichtkind: but a Jew by peopleship.
12:50 lichtkind thats what we call in germany semit :)
12:51 lichtkind rindolf i think my editor written in perl is whats i mostly known
12:51 lichtkind but also for my talks and tutorials about perl6 and wxperl
12:52 lichtkind currently writing article about perl6 :) thatswhy im here
12:53 lichtkind jews have one of oldest cultures, thats always for me astonishing
12:53 Juerd lichtkind: Your English has improved over the past year :)
12:53 lichtkind thanks
12:54 lichtkind thanks also to slashdot :)
12:54 Juerd I just remembered that I first met you only a year ago, at the GPW.
12:54 rindolf lichtkind: what is your editor?
12:54 rindolf lichtkind: I mean the editor you wrote.
12:54 lichtkind i understood
12:54 lichtkind i just stumble because i didnt found a final good name for it
12:55 lichtkind but most of the time it was called PCE
12:55 lichtkind see under proton-ce.sf.net
12:55 Juerd lichtkind: Too bad lightscribe is already taken by the optical media industry ;)
12:55 lichtkind it paused a bit but gaining noe steam again
12:55 lichtkind :)
12:56 lichtkind now is search for something with spiritual meaning what doesnt scare people away that are athiests :)
12:57 * Juerd would suggest lucifer, but that would probably not be received well either ;)
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12:57 lichtkind i dont like satanism
12:58 Juerd But it wouldn't scare off atheists
12:58 lichtkind as any religion... my favourit was kephra, its old egyptian term vor heart
12:59 lichtkind but in all respect sir its very stupid to play with these energies especially if your not know how deal with it
12:59 lichtkind weapon can kill even if you dont believe in bullets
13:00 Juerd Human kind plays with all kinds of unknown energy.
13:00 lichtkind sad but true
13:01 lichtkind but i heard there are buch more more israelis here in pugs team than rindolf
13:01 Juerd Maybe satanism is wrong, perhaps christianity is wrong. My belief is that no religion really makes sense.
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13:01 Juerd Religion is a human invention, as far as my limited mind can tell.
13:01 rindolf lichtkind: there are nothingmuch and gaal and shay
13:02 Juerd Thank your for your interest in Wombat's City Hostels.
13:02 Juerd We in Munich have 6 public terminals but, unfortunately,
13:02 Juerd no WiFi or other internet connection for our guests.
13:02 Juerd </quote> Okay, that takes Wombats Hostel off the list
13:02 Juerd I need more than access to web mail :)
13:03 avar lichtkind: considered releasing that editor on cpan?
13:03 lichtkind Juerd mohammed was completly right most religion were inspoired my higher conciousness but were perverted over time, and yes most religion contain lot of valuable wisdom
13:03 lichtkind avar yes its close to
13:04 lichtkind juerd but you need some education to recognize it so its mostly useless
13:04 lichtkind and religion were often the tool to remain power in wrong hands
13:05 Juerd IMHO, it's culture that spreads wisdom, and religion is one of many forms of culture.
13:05 shay who named me
13:05 Juerd Not really opinion. Perception, probably.
13:05 rgs and nurture spreads food. hmm, pie
13:05 shay rindolf, hi Shlomi
13:05 Juerd pie++
13:05 Juerd shay: You, or your parents?
13:06 shay hello Juerd :)
13:06 lichtkind avar alias helped me to make in cpan ready just have to merge in some changes :)
13:07 * Juerd is surprised to see "just" and "merge" in one sentence.
13:07 lichtkind haha
13:07 lichtkind it seems you know what you talking of
13:08 lichtkind Juerd of course in religion part of culture, but if only count as religion if it contains spirituality
13:08 lichtkind unfortunatly most religion contains a lot of sick cults
13:09 avar why would something that's a "sick cult" not a count as a religion?
13:10 shay I'm travelling home in an hour
13:10 shay gotta get ready
13:10 shay see you laters
13:11 lichtkind it contradicts is proposed goals
13:11 Juerd avar: Or vice versa, which is a question that popped up in my head when I read some holy books.
13:11 * avar wanders off
13:11 lichtkind good bye
13:11 avar lichtkind: You're assuming that a "religion" needs to have some inherant goals
13:11 Juerd It's a good thing that modern followers no longer interpret those books literally.
13:11 lichtkind yes the latin word religio proposes its goal
13:12 Juerd lichtkind: Religion requires spirituality? Why would that be?
13:12 lumi lichtkind: What are these proposed goals?
13:12 avar religion is just an adherence to some belief
13:12 lichtkind the goal to lead you back to god
13:12 lichtkind thats by definition spiritual
13:13 Juerd o/` What if God was one of us?
13:13 lumi That seems to limit "religion" to something very much like Christianity
13:13 lichtkind we are god
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13:13 avar No, there have been hundreds of thousands of religions throughout human history. The definition you propose doesn't cover them
13:13 wolverian now you sound like satanists :)
13:13 Juerd lichtkind: Perversely, I like that thought :)
13:13 lumi Thou art God
13:13 avar but meh, /me gone
13:13 Juerd Hm. "lumi".
13:13 Juerd Another bright nickname :)
13:13 Juerd Bye, avar
13:14 lumi Juerd: It's a snowy one :)
13:14 Juerd Snowy?
13:14 lumi lumi is Finnish for snow
13:14 Juerd wolverian: It all depends on one's Rorschach Test results ;)
13:14 Juerd lumi: Ah
13:15 Juerd lumi: I interpreted it as short for luminance
13:15 lichtkind wolverian i think satanism is stupid, but with many things they say are they more correct that christians :)
13:15 lumi Lumi & Chroma -- They Fight Crime
13:16 wolverian lichtkind, laveyan satanism?
13:16 merlyn against the evil "Hugh"
13:16 Juerd Hm. "One last song before I leave" doesn't work if it's a one hour mp3.
13:16 lichtkind wolverian that too
13:16 wolverian I find it pretty intuitive, though I'm not sure if it's a religion. :)
13:17 merlyn maybe satanism is just being the devil's advocate about christianity? :)
13:17 lichtkind Juerd how you came to that conclusion?
13:17 wolverian completely atheistic religions are weird.
13:17 Juerd Ehm. The devil is playing with my mp3 player.
13:17 Juerd My squeezebox just randomly selected Bach's "Wie schön leuchtet der Morgenstern".
13:17 merlyn s/devil/RIAA/
13:17 lichtkind hahah
13:18 wolverian squeezebox++ # that's scary
13:18 merlyn but that's redundant
13:18 Juerd I must admit that I am indeed more than surprised.
13:18 merlyn "The Devil, through his wholly owned subsidiary, the RIAA, announced today that ..."
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13:18 __Ace__ anyone here know a good doctors irc chan?
13:19 lichtkind Wolverian the problem i have with satasim that the whole thing is like christianitiy based on foolin people
13:20 Juerd <quote>
13:20 Juerd Thank you for your e-mail.
13:20 Juerd The guests in this Hotel can use the wireless internet with their
13:20 Juerd Own Laptop and it's for free.
13:20 Juerd We are looking forward to your booking.
13:20 Juerd </quote>
13:20 Juerd That's better. (Jaeger's hostel)
13:20 lichtkind juerd wombat?
13:20 lichtkind ah
13:20 Juerd lichtkind: No, Wombat replied that they only have some terminals.
13:20 Juerd Which isn't good enough.
13:20 lichtkind shure
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13:21 Juerd I can't risk key loggers for the kind of work that I do.
13:21 lichtkind i should also care about it since i have laptop now
13:21 Juerd Jaeger's is in the same street, even!
13:21 lichtkind but i booked
13:21 lichtkind juerd which day you would drive back?
13:22 Juerd lichtkind: 23rd
13:22 Juerd MUST be in .nl the 24th
13:22 Juerd Maybe I'll visit FOSDEM the 25th
13:22 lichtkind i still looking somone to go by train or car together
13:22 Juerd "Ein öffentliches Parkhaus ist gleich nebenan und kostet €13.50 pro Tag, wenn ihr bei uns wohnt."
13:22 Juerd Ouch.
13:22 Juerd lichtkind: From where?
13:22 lichtkind should i translate?
13:22 Juerd No, I can read German, thanks :)
13:23 lichtkind Juerd from munich to frankfurt
13:23 lichtkind wolverian: are you satanist?
13:24 Juerd Mein Deutsch ist gleich wie dein Englisch. Ich verstehe es, aber wenn ich 's spreche oder type, geht es schief :)
13:24 Juerd Fortunately, almost everyone understands English :)
13:25 lichtkind tippe not type :)
13:26 Juerd q.e.d.
13:26 Juerd lichtkind: am Main, I hope?
13:26 lichtkind so you go back on friday do go in direction frankfurt?
13:26 lichtkind of course
13:27 Juerd Going via Frankfurt a.M. is just a 20 minute detour for me
13:27 Juerd http://maps.google.nl/maps?f=d&amp;hl=nl&amp;sadd​r=dordrecht&amp;daddr=Frankfurt+am+Main,+Germany+​to:muenchen&amp;sll=49.979488,8.129883&amp;sspn=6​.614259,14.941406&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;z=6&amp;ll=49.9​5122,9.250488&amp;spn=6.618136,14.941406&amp;om=1
13:27 lambdabot Title: Google Maps, http://tinyurl.com/2fv5jx
13:27 wolverian lichtkind, I find the name somewhat silly, and I don't feel like I need the religious (albeit atheist) aspects of it, so I don't think so. I do consider the philosophy sensible.
13:28 lichtkind juerd so if you have a seat free i would pay some euros
13:29 rindolf joined perl6
13:30 Juerd lichtkind: Sounds good. Let's discus this tonight
13:30 lichtkind tonight? in 8 ours?
13:33 lichtkind Wolverian the only satanist i know is one of most polite persons, i find also the whole magic system around it attractive but the movement in general sucks, despite i dont believe in counterreactions :)
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13:41 Juerd lichtkind: I don't know at what time I will be online, sorry
13:42 polettix joined perl6
14:00 gaal_ joined perl6
14:05 * Coke_ sees all these people speaking english and wonders, what about the poor americans that want to practice their foreign languages? huh? what about those... seven people?
14:13 VanilleBert joined perl6
14:18 weinig|bbl is now known as weinig
14:23 Limbic_Region Coke - where did that come from?
14:24 Endymion joined perl6
14:24 Endymion hi
14:25 lichtkind hello endymion
14:25 bonesss joined perl6
14:26 lichtkind "A Penis Is Just a Great Big Clitoris With a Piss Hole" was für ein trackname
14:26 lichtkind ups
14:26 lichtkind wrong channel :)
14:26 moritz lichtkind: lol ;)
14:26 lichtkind its a songname
14:26 lichtkind its not from me :)
14:27 rgs poetry meets biology
14:27 Coke_ Limbic_Region: catching up in review. lots of non-native english speakers in #perl6 who seem to like to speak in english.
14:28 gaal joined perl6
14:28 lichtkind hello gaal
14:29 moritz lichtkind: I do speak German ;)
14:29 lichtkind ja das sieht man am namen :)
14:30 lichtkind was machst hier? und nicht in perlde ? :)
14:30 moritz wird da perl6 entwickelt?
14:30 lichtkind weniger :)
14:30 cjeris joined perl6
14:30 moritz eben ;)
14:30 vel joined perl6
14:33 lichtkind kommst du mach münchen?
14:33 moritz lichtkind: no, I'm currently in Edinburgh, Scotland (until June)
14:33 moritz lichtkind: next year perhaps... is it every year?
14:33 lichtkind klar
14:35 lichtkind but in different city, as you can see on perl.org
14:37 weinig is now known as weinig|bbl
14:38 moritz http://www.perl.org/advocacy/summerofcode/ seems to be fairly outdated ;)
14:38 lambdabot Title: Summer of Code - perl.org
14:40 integral is the 2007 SoC starting up already?
14:41 lichtkind dunno
14:41 lichtkind moritz whats your bürgerlicher name :)
14:41 integral it should still be "current" in that 2006 was the last SoC
14:43 moritz lichtkind: you can guess it ;)
14:44 lichtkind ok let me rearrange this question,  is there any possibility i do already know you?
14:46 moritz lichtkind: it's very unlikely, unless you come from Erlangen (then it's just unlikely ;)
14:46 nipra joined perl6
14:46 lichtkind erlangen.pm so you know reneeb?
14:47 moritz lichtkind: if you tell me his real name - perhaps
14:47 moritz lichtkind: but I'm fairly new to perl and I don't know many people
14:48 anatolyv joined perl6
14:48 lichtkind renee bäcker, leader of erlangen .pm so far i know
14:49 moritz I've heard of him, but I don't think I ever met him
14:49 lichtkind one of the most active german folks, he now started first german perlmag
14:50 lichtkind also my first user :)
14:50 vel joined perl6
14:55 gaal hey, anyone know how to delete an RT ticket? I have spam in my queue...
14:56 [particle] change the queue to spam
14:56 [particle] from the 'basics' tab
14:56 gaal thanks!
14:56 [particle] you'll know it works if you get a message saying you can't view the ticket
14:56 [particle] (strange but true)
14:57 gaal hm rt.cpan.org doesn't have a queue called spam
14:57 vel joined perl6
14:57 lichtkind moritz what you do with perl6?
15:00 [particle] gaal: sorry, dunno cpan rt as well as perl.org's :(
15:00 gaal [particle]: okay thanks anyway :)
15:01 moritz lichtkind: admiring its beauty, and writing a few test cases
15:01 moritz lichtkind: and currently I'm writing a german perl6-howto for programmers (but not perl5-programmers)
15:01 polettix joined perl6
15:01 lichtkind cool im writing nothing, just about perl6
15:02 lichtkind im writing german perl6 tutorial
15:02 lichtkind maybe we could join
15:02 lichtkind do you know our wiki?
15:02 moritz which is "yours"?
15:02 lichtkind check de.perl.org
15:02 lichtkind and click on wiki > wissensbasis > tutorials
15:03 moritz lichtkind: http://moritz.faui2k3.org/​de/artikel/perl6-tutorial this is how far I'm now
15:03 lichtkind and yours ?
15:03 lambdabot Title: Perl6-Tutorial
15:04 moritz ups, I forgot to remove the ads from the template, embarresing ;)
15:04 lichtkind moritz you have different aproach
15:05 lichtkind you make more like a learning perl6 i want to make more complete compendium
15:05 moritz yes, I see that
15:05 lichtkind with examples
15:05 moritz lichtkind: maybe it's good to have both
15:05 lichtkind yes i will link to yours
15:05 moritz I'll link to your one
15:05 moritz ;))
15:06 lichtkind the plan was also to learn from my first try und translate it slightly chenges to have an english tutorial
15:13 moritz lichtkind: I had no plan... somebody just asked if there was a perl6-tutorial for non-perl5-programmers, so I started one
15:13 lichtkind mine is mostly for perl5 folks
15:13 lichtkind explaining more the diffs
15:14 lichtkind explaining all
15:14 lichtkind but more from a diff standpoint
15:14 lichtkind take more attention to the diffs
15:16 rindolf There's also http://www.szabgab.com/perl6.html
15:16 lambdabot Title: Perl6
15:16 lichtkind rindolf already in my link section
15:16 lichtkind http://wiki.perl-community.de/bin/vi​ew/Wissensbasis/Perl6TutorialAnhangE
15:20 VanilleBert "take more attention to the diffs" -> not good for me... i dont know perl5 :D
15:20 lichtkind hello vanille bert
15:21 lichtkind you can learn from it from ground but i took much attention to show you pitfalls of transition
15:22 lichtkind from these calrifications you can also clearly see what perl6 does and what not :)
15:22 moritz VanilleBert: that's what I don't like about the specs - partly they are barely readable if you don't know p6
15:22 moritz s/p6/p5/
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16:44 Cafe_ joined perl6
16:44 Cafe_ hi all
16:45 Cafe_ is there any online POD reader tool wich I can give an URL??
16:45 lichtkind hello cafe
16:45 lichtkind dunno but i wanted to write an offline podreader
16:45 lichtkind but its merely in my head today
16:46 wolverian lichtkind, what's wrong with perldoc? :)
16:46 wolverian (well, okay, many things.)
16:47 lichtkind we want to have tabs, better search and some other stuff
16:47 lichtkind beside thats its a demo for an techology
16:47 moritz written in perl6? ;)
16:47 lichtkind for an supersecret perl.com article i hopefully finish some day
16:47 lichtkind of couse not :)
16:48 Cafe_ perldoc is nice for text mode
16:48 Cafe_ but I wish something like CPAN's reader, but suplying an URL for it to read
16:49 lichtkind what ya mean?
16:49 wolverian pinfo is nice.. too bad I can't find a pod2info
16:50 wolverian (though perldoc perlamiga (!) mentions it)
16:50 lichtkind info is another format?
16:50 wolverian yeah. gnu apps traditionally are documented with it.
16:50 wolverian the default reader happens to suck, though. pinfo is nice.
16:50 avar wolverian: emacs is a better info reader than pinfo imo
16:51 weinig|bbl is now known as weinig
16:51 wolverian avar, probably. using it just for info reading feels a bit silly, though.
16:52 avar I don't use info(1) but I don't think it's all that bad
16:52 moritz avar: it is ;)
16:52 wolverian compared to pinfo, it is.
16:52 avar haha
16:53 avar pinfo emacs brings up the man page, how sucky
16:53 wolverian try installing emacs's info docs? :)
16:53 Psyche^ joined perl6
16:53 avar I have emacs's info docs
16:54 avar are you expected to use the arrow keys and pgup/down to navigate in pinfo?
16:54 wolverian jk move between links
16:54 moritz very intuitive for vi users ;)
16:54 wolverian yup :)
16:54 wolverian and space is a pagedown, too
17:01 lichtkind moritz what was especially hard to understand?
17:01 svnbot6 r15264 | lwall++ | Transitioning to model where syntactic categories control subsequent parse.
17:01 svnbot6 r15264 | lwall++ | (Otherwise the grammar isn't really extensible...)
17:01 lichtkind yeah
17:02 andara left perl6
17:05 moritz lichtkind: hm?
17:05 lichtkind weisst was ich mein?
17:05 moritz lichtkind: habs noch nicht durchgelesen, hatte einen termin...
17:05 moritz lichtkind: hast du sinnvolle kommentare zu meinem zeugs?
17:05 moritz (außer dass noch jede Menge fehlt ;)
17:06 lichtkind ne ich wollte nur wissen wo genau es für dich schwer war die perl6 syn zu verstehen
17:06 moritz ach die syn...
17:06 Psyche^ is now known as Patterner
17:07 moritz kann jetzt gerade keien genaue stelle sagen, aber es gibt halt stellen, an denen mit fachbegriffen um sich geschmissen wird, ohne dich bisher ganz anständig p5 programmieren konnte
17:08 lichtkind oder was du halt meintest mit: moritz>VanilleBert: that's what I don't like about the specs - partly they are barely readable if you don't know p6
17:09 moritz lichtkind: naja, zum Teil sind die halt als diff zu p5 gechrieben, besonders bei dem rules
17:12 lichtkind ich schreib grad perl6 artikel für perlmag willst vorher mal lesen?
17:12 lichtkind aber bitte nicht weitergeben....
17:12 lichtkind wenns soweit ist :)
17:13 moritz lichtkind: aber sicher
17:13 lichtkind http://www.foo-magazin.de/
17:13 lambdabot Title: $foo - Perl-Magazin
17:14 lichtkind übrigens das da im  logo ist mein editor
17:14 lichtkind :)
17:15 moritz hm, vim?
17:16 lichtkind ich meinte nicht der editor den ich benutze, sondern den ich geschrieben hab
17:16 lichtkind :)
17:16 lichtkind in perl natürlich
17:16 lichtkind hab ansonst nicht viel mit der zeitschrift zu tun
17:17 moritz lichtkind: kannst mir den artikel dann auch gerne mit gpg verschlüsselt schicken (falls du bedenken hast ;), 0x9048D322
17:17 lichtkind wieso sollte ich?
17:17 lichtkind habe die gpg benutzt
17:18 moritz lichtkind: paranoia?
17:18 moritz lichtkind: das PDF der leseprobe sieht grauenhaft aus, irgendwie ist die schrift total verhunzt...
17:19 Cafe_ left perl6
17:19 lichtkind habe nie gpg benutzt :)
17:19 lichtkind ich konnts lesen aber es ista uch erste ausgabe
17:20 moritz wollts nur angemerkt haben ;)
17:21 lichtkind schreib ihm doch :)
17:21 lichtkind http://board.perl-community.de/cgi-bin/ikonboa​rd/ikonboard.cgi?s=7c0b8dbc8e7f766769362e24a90​cf451;act=Profile;CODE=03;MID=114-1059974551
17:21 lambdabot Title: Forum Nachricht, http://tinyurl.com/ytjdjn
17:22 xern joined perl6
17:31 lichtkind shit hab schlechtes karma
17:35 dmq shit hab?
17:35 dmq isnt that kindof taken for granted?
17:35 rgs s/hab/ich $&e/ ?
17:35 lichtkind no im mourning that i have bad slashdot karma
17:36 dmq oh i thought you were saying "shit has bad karma" :-)
17:36 lichtkind i got bad karma since my first post :)
17:36 lichtkind haha
17:36 lichtkind hab is short for ich habe
17:37 rgs cool, my german hasn't disappeared completely
17:37 lichtkind when i wanne talk about shits karma i would say shit hat ..
17:37 lichtkind rgs you lived in germany?
17:37 rgs no.
17:38 lichtkind in school?
17:38 rgs just learned bits of german in school yes
17:38 * rgs goes home now &
17:38 lichtkind machs gut :)
17:38 dmq gleich fals
17:39 dmq my german spleleling isnt very good.
17:39 lichtkind gleichfalls :)
17:39 TimToady ich habe Deutsch ganz vergessen...
17:40 lichtkind ah tim is alive :) sehr gut :)
17:40 lichtkind TimToaddy may i aske you some questions?
17:40 TimToady ich fühle tod  (is that right?)
17:41 moritz TimToady: you
17:41 moritz sry
17:41 moritz TimToady: you'd say "ich fühle _mich_ tod" ;)
17:41 lichtkind TimToady ich fühle mich tot
17:41 TimToady gotcha
17:41 lichtkind tod is the death
17:41 lichtkind tot is dead
17:41 TimToady k
17:42 TimToady lichtkind: yes, as long as you don't call me tim.  :)
17:42 lichtkind ai sir :)
17:43 lichtkind so i ask you another time , (but that are easy questions :))
17:43 TimToady you may ask now
17:43 TimToady feeling dead was mostly just a joke
17:44 lichtkind im mostly to serious to understand jokes :)
17:45 TimToady I'm sure I don't feel nearly as dead as Audrey does right now... :/
17:45 lichtkind ok im writing currently a piece about perl6 and in chapter 1 about the main goal of perl and i wont to get a bit spiritual
17:45 lichtkind audrey is by you?
17:45 TimToady no, half a world away
17:46 lichtkind its about the mathew quate the name perl is derived from
17:46 TimToady I would not say "derived from", merely one of the many associations
17:47 * dmq idly wonders if p6 will use inversion lists for its charclasses, and if yes if they are already written yet (in C) and if yes, can i steal them?
17:47 moritz dmq: p6 and C?
17:47 lichtkind yeah but feel free like in heaven while be creative is the main goal of perl as i understand
17:48 TimToady p6 has no opinions about implementation
17:49 dmq im just on the prowl for an inversion list implementation, and was hoping you guys might have one.
17:50 TimToady it's certainly true that my particular theology says that good behavior must come from the inside of the person, not be imposed from without
17:50 TimToady and that certainly relates to allowing people to exercise free will
17:51 lichtkind yes also because vreativity without free will is no fun :)
17:51 lichtkind creativity
17:52 TimToady I think God is lot more like audreyt++ than even audreyt++ realizes. :)
17:52 TimToady She's always saying "use your initiative"
17:53 lichtkind also has perl matured a lot last times sinse best practises and perl::Critic is around :)
17:53 BooK_ joined perl6
17:53 lichtkind sorry what you mean with initative?
17:53 lichtkind you mean intuition?
17:53 TimToady enforcement of cultural norms has its place, but cannot substitute for the goodness that comes from within
17:54 lichtkind true
17:54 TimToady it means "figure it out yourself"
17:55 TimToady to initiate is to start something, so "initiative" is the quality of someone who is a self-starter
17:55 dmq leo says "die Initiative ergreifen"
17:56 lichtkind dmq thanks btu i understand
17:57 lichtkind makes sense to me
17:58 TimToady anyway, my goal is not to tell people how they have to program, but rather to encourage people to *become* good programmers
17:58 lichtkind so lower the hurdles to all the features
17:58 lichtkind without making it php like :)
17:58 dmq timtoady, p6 does sortof suggest that certain implementations will be better than others, since you have mandated char class set operations. so the implementation must be ameniable to that.
17:59 TimToady dmq: what implementation you want for character classes depends on what you're optimizing for
17:59 lichtkind TimToaday sounds a nit like wisdom through experience to me
18:00 weinig is now known as weinig|bbl
18:00 dmq handle unicode, facilitate set operations, not blow up in terms of storage on large sets.
18:02 TimToady yes, we attempt to specify the semantics, but there are various space vs time tradeoffs the implementation can make depending on whether your device has 500 kilobytes or 500 terabytes of memory
18:02 dmq it seems to me like inversions lists have the upper hand in almost every respect except multibyte equivelencies.
18:03 dmq there dont seem to be too many reasonable options. even if you do have 500 terabytes of memory. :-)
18:03 xinming_ joined perl6
18:04 dmq if you know of any besides bitvectors, tries and inversion lists please let me know.
18:04 TimToady well, with that kind of memory you don't care about a small table with only 0x10ffff entries.  :)
18:04 dmq yeah. :-)
18:05 TimToady but your telephone is likely to want a slow but small algorithm
18:06 dmq yeah, worst case invlist is 0x10FFFF entries as well. hrmm.
18:06 bernhard joined perl6
18:07 dmq although anybody that manages to write a charclass that creates such a list deserves what happens to them :-)
18:07 TimToady for your phone, the most compact representation is probably the original character class specified by the user, and you just interpret that.
18:08 dmq not a bad point
18:10 TimToady course when you start pulling in Unicode properties, you start getting long lists of characters.
18:11 TimToady but presumably those would be stored in one place and accessed indirectly
18:11 TimToady and if phones start getting to have too much memory, I'm sure we'll have smaller embedded devices that need compact storage
18:12 TimToady how much memory do your nanobots have, for instance?
18:12 lichtkind TimToady thanks for answers i want hype chamelessly perl6 but not bullshiting around, currently i think hard if theres another question on my mind
18:13 TimToady leaving theology out of it, religions work best if they're scalable
18:13 TimToady they have to be accessible to a child, and still interest the philosophers
18:14 [particle] i think that's why frisbeetarianism never took off
18:14 lichtkind so all can contribute something interesting :)
18:14 lichtkind and some child can be clearer in mind than philosopher :)
18:14 TimToady and one never gets to a spot where you say "I've arrived" and don't need to improve any more.
18:15 lichtkind ah now i get it perl6 is the sucessor of WoW
18:15 TimToady but humans love their false minima
18:15 TimToady World of Warcraft?
18:15 lichtkind yes
18:16 TimToady don't know anything about it...
18:16 lichtkind some of my friends are unhealthy addicted and süpend nearly all their life in this world
18:16 lichtkind its mass epidemia
18:16 lichtkind your never finished
18:16 lichtkind every 2 weeks content updates
18:17 lichtkind gigantic worlds
18:17 lichtkind trees of characters and possibilities
18:17 lichtkind but its based on getting points for killing people
18:18 lichtkind it ment to be joke that perl6 is programmers WoW
18:18 TimToady it is a mystery of human existence that forward motion depends on having good balance.
18:19 TimToady we tend to think of balance as a static
18:19 TimToady thing
18:19 lichtkind yes balance is one of the most important things in WoW
18:19 lichtkind the founded their own term: inba
18:19 [particle] like riding a bicycle
18:19 TimToady but all progress depends on lack of balance.
18:19 lichtkind stands for inbalanced
18:20 lichtkind they say it all the time if they dont like something
18:20 TimToady and the most unbalanced often make the most progress before they crash
18:20 TimToady "all progress depends on the unreasonable man"
18:20 lichtkind i know that one :)
18:20 TimToady oh, you know me, huh?  :)
18:20 lichtkind WoW is very interesting for linguist because they created their own language
18:21 lichtkind no that quote from shaw :)
18:21 * allbery_b suspects we're *all* unreasonable here :)
18:21 TimToady I'll bet it's biased towards Indo-European...
18:21 nothingmuch i'm perfectly reasonable
18:21 nothingmuch it's just that many other people are unreasonable about accepting that fact
18:22 TimToady well, I try to be unreasonable as often as possible, but I'm not very good at it.
18:23 allbery_b @remember TimToady well, I try to be unreasonable as often as possible, but I'm not very good at it.
18:23 lambdabot Done.
18:23 lichtkind but to have fun is sometimes enough :)
18:23 lichtkind ah one i forgot
18:24 lichtkind i mean on theological point
18:24 lichtkind because were from god we are creative, creativity as a birthright, and perl just dont try to get into my way
18:26 lichtkind i think thats + the previous talked about are the points i want to make
18:26 TimToady within reason.  God still classifies some behaviors as syntax errors.
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18:27 lichtkind you mean like murder and stealing?
18:27 TimToady yes, those definitely throw an exception.
18:28 TimToady and erroneous programs have bad consequences even if the compiler doesn't tell you beforehand.
18:31 TimToady "there is a way that seems right to a man, but the end of it is death" is just a restatement (or a prestatement) of the Halting Problem.
18:32 lichtkind i dont understand
18:32 TimToady so another way to state the free will thing is that we are intended to be interesting programs, not programs that can be "proven correct".
18:33 TimToady "there is a way that seems right to a man, but the end of it is death" is a verse from the Bible.
18:33 lichtkind i seldom read much bible, and only in german :)
18:34 lichtkind im no christian in any way, only share some insights :)
18:35 TimToady I don't expect anyone to be a Christian who isn't yet.  :)
18:35 lichtkind shii i missed that one too. please explain
18:35 lichtkind they even failed to make me a communist
18:36 TimToady a lot of Christians fall into the trap of expecting everyone to behave like Christians.  I don't expect that.
18:37 lichtkind thats wise :)
18:38 TimToady on the other hand, I also try not to fall into the trap of thinking that people won't change their mind on the subject.
18:38 Limbic_Region joined perl6
18:38 lichtkind :)
18:39 lichtkind i was lot flogged in wikipedia for standing to my esoteric beliefs thatswhy i sometime make this second mistake
18:42 lichtkind i dont think god classifies, but we cant make perl6 complex as the universe itself :)
18:42 TimToady it's part of The Plan.  :)
18:42 lichtkind since it will always be an subset
18:42 TimToady thats enough.
18:43 allbery_b no, but p6 can be as complex as the human mind, just by being used and extended by human minds
18:44 TimToady hmm, I guess I don't even aspire to that height.  I think humanity will always be a little more complex than Perl.  :)
18:44 lichtkind its not too far http://www.guardian.co.uk/sci​ence/story/0,,2009217,00.html
18:44 lambdabot Title: The brain scan that can read people's intentions | Science | Guardian Unlimited
18:45 lichtkind yes its i nice thougth to run perl in the brain but i dont think thats the goal
18:46 lichtkind one of the reasons why programming is fun it is a way to communicate with a machine
18:46 TimToady I should just get my brain scanned for intentions and then I wouldn't have to write all the specs...
18:46 dmq you are planning to solve intentionality in perl6?
18:46 dmq yikes. ;-)
18:46 TimToady if I do, it'll be unintentional...
18:47 lichtkind haha
18:47 dmq timtoady++
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18:49 lichtkind yo thanks for the input
18:49 TimToady bitte zehr
18:49 lichtkind bitte sehr
18:49 TimToady gah
18:50 * TimToady will go back to studying German after mastering Japanese... :)
18:50 moritz TimToady: we'll remind you ;)
18:50 lichtkind but if you spell it czech nobody will notice :)
18:50 TimToady そうでしょう。
18:51 wolverian learning a language without having an application for it is hard. applies to human and computer languages.
18:51 TimToady biab &
18:52 Khisanth wolverian: yes! :)
18:53 wolverian it really applies to libraries as well.
18:53 wolverian you can make
18:53 wolverian motivation
18:53 wolverian (damn you, fingers)
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19:06 lichtkind TimToady i ment that if a czech would pronounce zehr it would sound like correct german sehr :)
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19:16 wolverian hrm, SVK2 depends on VCP, which doesn't exist..
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19:56 svnbot6 r15265 | lwall++ | Declarators are now predictive.
20:04 lichtkind Juerd are you there ?
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20:15 Juerd lichtkind: Yes
20:16 Juerd lichtkind: But unfortunately I have no time :( Sorry.
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21:08 lichtkind Juerd doesnt matter we its bit time up to  munich
21:17 shamu bind
21:31 moritz ?eval my @l = lazy (1 .. Inf)
21:31 evalbot_r15265 (no output)
21:31 moritz ?eval my @l = lazy (1 .. Inf); @l[2]
21:32 evalbot_r15265 (no output)
21:32 moritz :(
21:32 Limbic_Region ?eval my @inf = 1 ...; @inf[2];
21:32 evalbot_r15265 pugs: out of memory (requested 1048576 bytes)
21:32 Limbic_Region hrm
21:32 Limbic_Region I thought it was lazy by default
21:33 moritz perhaps it's not implemented yet
21:34 moritz ?eval (1 .. Inf)[2]
21:34 evalbot_r15265 \3.0
21:34 Limbic_Region moritz - see t/data_types/lazy_lists.t
21:35 * Limbic_Region doesn't have time ATM but presumably that's correct syntax
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