Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2007-02-21

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
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00:29 * Debolaz looks at the new ruby benchmarks.
00:30 moritz Debolaz: the ones that appeared on /.?
00:30 avar parrot be sloww:)
00:31 avar and very incomplete
00:31 [particle] *extremely* incomplete
00:31 [particle] it can do 2 + 2
00:31 moritz but for arbitrary integers... I can't do that ;))
00:35 Debolaz moritz: Yes.
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01:28 putter Hmm.  Looks like src/perl6/Perl-6.0.0-STD.pm doesn't have regex aliases yet.  fudging...
01:37 TimToady regex aliases?
01:38 TimToady I'm just about to check in a major overhaul on symbol processing that uses less magic
01:41 TimToady you mean the {*} #= thingies?
01:44 svnbot6 r15315 | lwall++ | symbol processing now uses normal capture.
01:44 svnbot6 r15315 | lwall++ | endsyms are done with context sigs on the proto tokens.
01:44 svnbot6 r15315 | lwall++ | the only magic is now that proto sig contexts are expected to propagate
01:44 svnbot6 r15315 | lwall++ |     context var declarations even if the multi adds a (--> Foo) sig.
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01:51 TimToady putter: or do you mean naming a [...] and calling back to it?
01:55 putter mumble := construct   where mumble is a named/numbered scalar, array, or hash alias, or an external scalar, array, or hash alias. ;)
01:55 putter $3 := (foo)
01:57 TimToady oh, yeah, it's missing...
01:57 TimToady hmm
01:59 putter arg.  the parrot rx_ tests repeatedly use a target string.  which starts with \n and continues through $% on to 0123 etc.  so the question is, what can you do toi this string so that \n is expanded but $% isn't.  ($% expands as "0", so guess where the first <alnum> hit is :).  weeeeee.
02:00 putter ah, well.  special casing coming up.
02:01 putter re alias, I used a modified version of misc/Grammars/rx_grammar.pm's.
02:10 TimToady took a whack at adding it.
02:10 svnbot6 r15316 | lwall++ | Added regex binding
02:10 TimToady decommuting &
02:12 putter :)
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03:06 putter Anyone around who understands the p6 "logical newline" concept?
03:07 avar in say and such?
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03:09 svnbot6 r15317 | lwall++ | fixed syntax error, added more #= to regex
03:11 avar TimToady: Do you recall when in perl history you brought in Henry Spencer's regexp code? It's for an evolving joke in re::engine::POSIX docs
03:11 * avar snickers
03:11 putter it initially seems like p5's /\n/ has a different concept of what \x0a and \x0d patterns should be matched than p6 does
03:12 avar # $1 works too, but one should never half-ass nostalgia
03:12 avar s/\(.*\)/string: \1/g;
03:12 avar :)
03:12 putter (or so I'm currently interpreting some rx_ test failures)
03:13 TimToady I believe that was version 2
03:14 TimToady but the switch from \(...\) to (...) was version 1
03:14 TimToady putter: \n is intentionally different in p6
03:15 TimToady \n is "newline character" in Perl 5.
03:15 TimToady in P6 it's "logical newline", even if that's more than one character
03:15 putter or even if it's just \r?
03:15 TimToady or a newline character from another culture
03:16 putter k
03:16 TimToady \x0D was newline on old macs
03:16 TimToady maybe new macs too
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03:17 TimToady so a bare \r is interpreted as a newline as well.
03:18 * putter very very (blow of the dust decades old) fuzzy recollection is that one can't unambiguously count "platform independent newlines".  no idea what the screw case was.  i could easily be wrong.
03:18 TimToady in p5 \n was just \x0A on most machines but \x0D on macs
03:19 allbery_b windows ises 0x0d 0x0A as newline, but you sometimes get unixy files or even files which mix them
03:19 allbery_b and then there's the question of what to do with 0x0A 0x0D..
03:20 * putter just needs a regex for p6 n and N ... sigh
03:21 TimToady \N is just [<!before \n>.]
03:22 putter :)
03:23 TimToady \n to the first approx is \r\n?|\n\r?|\x2028|\x2029
03:24 TimToady probably reverse the first two to put the common case first
03:26 putter someone has a  LF-CR convention?  if not, is it worth risking off-by-one out of sync problems.
03:27 avar putter: working or P::C::R?
03:28 putter misc/pX/Common/yet_another_regex_engine
03:29 putter ach, but I'm really all set for now.  knock off a few more tests and call it a night.
03:30 putter current design principle is "don't do it right, just pass the tests".  Did I mention we really really need more regex tests?  Maybe we can scavange some from all the perl compatible regex libraries out there.  Or write a generator.  Or...
03:31 TimToady except, of course, they'd do \n wrong from our perspective...
03:33 TimToady dinner &
03:33 putter cheers
03:33 putter (easiest bug fix is removing a broken test:)
03:55 tene argh
03:55 tene it really bugs me when people say "astericks" instead of "asterisk"
03:55 tene wow.  mischan.
03:55 * tene fails.
03:56 revdiablo Haha
03:56 revdiablo I was about to chime in agreement
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03:59 putter getting there.  but the next bit (overhauling captures to be spec) will be painful (because the engine itself is using the current, non-spec, capture behavior).  ah well.
03:59 svnbot6 r15318 | putter++ | misc/pX/Common/yet_another_regex_engine - some progress.  p6 rx_ tests currently 75% ok, 11 sec.
04:00 putter and whitespace handling is a complete kludge.  and no ratchet.  and... enough unto the day. ;)
04:04 putter good night &
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13:50 Limbic_Region @tell audreyt grats on getting out of the hospital, thanks for the journal updates, and well wishes towards a speedy and permanent recovery
13:50 lambdabot Consider it noted.
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14:04 devbot6 planet6: Audrey Tang: Pugscode.org services. <http://pugs.blogs.com/pugs/2007/02/pugscodeorg_ser.html>
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14:24 VanilleBert /eval multi infix:<zip> ($a, $b) { zip($a, $b) }; multi infix:<ZZ> ($a, $b) { zip($a, $b) }; [1,2] zip <a b> ZZ <A B>
14:24 moritz VanilleBert: try it with ?eval ;)
14:24 VanilleBert ?eval multi infix:<zip> ($a, $b) { zip($a, $b) }; multi infix:<ZZ> ($a, $b) { zip($a, $b) }; [1,2] zip <a b> ZZ <A B>
14:24 VanilleBert :D
14:24 evalbot_r15314 (((1, "a"), "A"), ((2, "b"), "B"))
14:25 VanilleBert ZZ looks ugly
14:25 [particle] so does &&
14:25 [particle] so use 'zip'
14:26 VanilleBert ?eval [1,2] Y <a b> zip <A B> ZZ <chees beast>
14:26 * Limbic_Region votes for creating a new unicode character that looks like a zipper
14:26 evalbot_r15314 Error: ␤Unexpected "zip"␤expecting operator
14:27 VanilleBert oh
14:27 VanilleBert damn eval dont use past definitions
14:28 jamessan ¥ almost looks like a zipper
14:28 VanilleBert i think Y also looks like a zipper...
14:28 Limbic_Region VanilleBert - do you know have pugs installed locally?  
14:29 VanilleBert not on this machine... but currently i use run.pugscode
14:29 Limbic_Region VanilleBert - perhaps http://feather.perl6.nl:8080/runpugs/? would work better for you
14:29 lambdabot Title: Run Perl 6 Now -- in your browser!
14:29 Limbic_Region heh
14:30 VanilleBert yes i use it right now
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14:31 gaal Limbic_Region: in light of U+2336..2395, hell, why stop at one character.
14:32 gaal the APL has the bestest smileys, too! ⍨
14:32 gaal s/APL /APL plane /
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15:15 gaal @tell audreyt can you link me to a paper with the kind of typing you have in mind as alternative for V{Pure,Mut,Ext}? Or is this some simpler encoding?
15:15 lambdabot Consider it noted.
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16:26 specbot6 r13699 | larry++ | ?\194?\165 is replaced by Z.  XX becomes simply X and old X must now be spelled X~X.
16:27 TimToady ooh, specbot fails its unicode roll...
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18:01 Limbic_Region TimToady audreyt et all - a question from tye at PerlMonks on the CB
18:01 Limbic_Region tye - "Java finalizers are defined to be untimely, unordered, and even unrequired. This makes me more curious how Perl6's finalizers are supposedly better than destructors on at least some of those points."
18:07 Limbic_Region anyone?
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18:48 eric256 is there an easy way to access the last value of a for loop? without doing state $last; and then $last = $_ at the bottum of the loop. i remember a discusion about that before but i'll be darned if i remember how to do it
18:52 diotalevi If your for loop is really just a search then first{} will get you there directly.
18:52 diotalevi er, wait. I thought this was #cbstream. dang.
19:01 gaal eric256: I think the solution was to write the loop with while rather than for...
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19:03 eric256 hmm i'm not sure that a while buys me much more that for with the states, but i'll give it a shot
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19:07 eric256 is http://pugs.kwiki.org/?ConvertingPerl5ToPerl6 dead?
19:11 wolverian hm, scala's Iterable trait has an .exists method that is basically any(). I find the naming quite convenient, so there's e.g. Set.exists. </random observation>
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19:33 * [particle] has 10 unexpectedly succeeding tests
19:33 [particle] 9 in t/pmc/mmd.t
19:33 [particle] 1 in t/pmc/threads.t
19:39 moritz I'll have to update and smoke again ;)
19:39 * [particle] thinks his unexpected successes are due to having built languages/perl5
19:40 jisom what would be the right regex/rule/whatever to match any byte over 0x80?
19:40 [particle] something that works in perl 6 as specced, or today on parrot?
19:40 jisom parrot
19:41 jisom to see is something's text or binary, I'm using <cntrl-[\t\r\n ]+[\x80..\xff]>
19:41 jisom until parrot get's something better
19:44 [particle] checking...
19:44 [particle] you can do a pir closure
19:45 eric256 are there sets ?  like can i have a set of 1-9 and then remove other sets from it?  /me is thinking of a soduko solver ;)
19:46 jisom I'm just trying to figure out if a line is binary or ascii with an error prone heuristic
19:47 [particle] isn't there a printable?
19:47 [particle] so, you want to match non-ascii, basically
19:47 [particle] actually, non latin-1 (>255)
19:48 jisom print fails on tabs I believe....
19:49 [particle] your overall goal is to determine whether a file is binary or text, correct?
19:49 jisom yes
19:49 [particle] eric256: there is a sudoku solver already, i think
19:49 [particle] coke and leo may know more
19:49 jisom in parrot, examples/pir/sudoku.pir :)
19:49 [particle] but you can use an array or a string to do that set
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19:53 svnbot6 r15319 | lwall++ | Some precedence cleanup, some sublanguage reworking.
19:53 eric256 particle yes, but that doesn't mean it can't be doe agian ;) besides the one there is labeled specificaly as not working
19:54 eric256 it was the removing elements from sets etc that i was interested in, i can program them, but if we had set and set operators built in then that would be better to use ;)
19:55 [particle] eric256: we have arrays, which you can use
19:55 [particle] or stringss
19:56 eric256 yes particle i read that the first time you said it.  it isn't a SET but it can be used as one, there was talk before about adding actual real sets to the language which would have set operators associated with them..hence why i asked here to see if someone knew what became of that,
19:56 eric256 i found some stuff in the docs but they appear to refer to useing <<+>> and >>+<< on sets, but those are now hyperops...hard to track stuff and how it changes sometimes
19:57 [particle] that's perl 6, not parrot
19:57 [particle] if you're looking for perl 6 syntax, go to #perl6 on freenode
19:57 [particle] and yes, perl 6 has sets
19:57 jisom isn't this?
19:57 moritz [particle]: this _is_ #perl6
19:57 [particle] aw, crap
19:58 [particle] sorry!
19:58 * jisom wants to know how to get '<cntrl-[trn]> | <[x80..xff]>' to do what he expects
19:58 moritz eric256: normally [particle] gives quite good answers, give him another chance ;-)
19:58 * [particle] had the plaster in his office blown off the walls by insulation installers today. he's more than a bit frazzled
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19:59 moritz jisom: perhaps define a rule for that?
19:59 eric256 hehe lmao
20:00 eric256 sorry about the plaster particle, but that is a funny image (i was laughing about your "this IS perl6" ;)
20:00 eric256 http://groups.google.com/group/perl.perl6.language/browse_frm/thread/e87485ee422a60ee/764a84ba937bd73f?#764a84ba937bd73f seems to talk about sets, but i'll be darned if i can tell if they've been included, or not, or morphed into something else
20:01 lambdabot Title: perl.perl6.language | Google Groups, http://tinyurl.com/2fjovd
20:01 tene See, I thought it was a joke.
20:01 [particle] there is a Set role, but dunno if there's a Set object in pugs atm
20:01 [particle] ?eval my $foo is Set;
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20:01 evalbot_r15319 \undef
20:02 [particle] well, seems to compile
20:02 wolverian the type is ignored currently, I think
20:02 eric256 lol i'll look around and see what i can find. thanks.  /me goes to dig through tests and examples in the hope of finding something
20:02 wolverian ?eval my $foo is Bar
20:02 evalbot_r15319 \undef
20:02 eric256 ?eval my $lunch is Now;
20:03 eric256 per poetry will never be the same agian
20:03 evalbot_r15319 \undef
20:03 [particle] eric256: feel free to use http://run.pugscode.org to play, too
20:03 lambdabot Title: Run Perl 6 Now -- in your browser!
20:03 [particle] jisom: i'm rebuilding parrot now, but may soon have a rule with pir closure that works
20:03 jisom alright
20:03 eric256 yea i'm on feather playing...run.pugscode.org didn't like me the other day, kept timing out
20:04 [particle] ah, great. feather++
20:04 jisom I'm a little surprised not to see a "ascii" rule
20:04 eric256 yea i was amazed my account didn't get pruned after the 8 months of innactivity, trying to catch up on the changes since then is....daunting
20:05 [particle] i hope the few things that haven't changed give you comfort :)
20:05 jisom still ghc?
20:05 [particle] yeah, but different version
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22:51 wolverian http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.scala/4142 hm, nice
22:51 lambdabot Title: Gmane Loom
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