Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2007-03-01

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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00:35 * offby1 clears his throat
00:35 Limbic_Region heh
00:36 avar eek!
00:36 * offby1 loosens his collar with his index finger
00:40 Ziggy6 i'm curios, what does moose mea?
00:40 Ziggy6 mean*
00:40 tene Ziggy6: it's a large mammal with antlers.
00:41 Ziggy6 ok, but that's not the meaning used here in #perl6
00:41 Ziggy6 or is it? :)
00:41 diotalevi It's also a totem animal for an english folk dance team in Minnesota.
00:41 tene Often it's just a silly random mostly meaningless word.
00:41 Ziggy6 you moose each other quite often
00:41 tene Sometimes it's used to refer to the perl5 OO module named 'Moose'
00:42 Limbic_Region Ziggy6 - have you seen Moose.pm on CPAN?
00:42 Ziggy6 Limbic_Region: i'm looking at it now
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00:45 Ziggy6 wow, if i ever do OO in p5 again i'll definitely use moose
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01:12 masak it says this in E02:
01:12 masak %node<VALUE>  = $val but Found(0);
01:12 masak (actually it said "is" but with a comment that "is" should be "but" nowadays)
01:12 masak my question: is this current perl 6?
01:13 masak what is Found(0) ? it's not a sub in the E02 example
01:13 tene it's not currently implemented.
01:13 masak but it's correct as it stands?
01:14 tene Yes.
01:14 masak hm
01:14 * masak ponders the best compromise between leaving E02 as it is and making it work in Pugs now
01:15 masak I'm about to commit a translation of E02, but it would feel better if it at least compiled first
01:15 TimToady properties must be predeclared these days
01:15 masak oh
01:15 TimToady they're just mixins, really
01:16 masak how do I predeclare them?
01:16 masak example and/or reference to synopsis works
01:16 TimToady with a role or enum declaration
01:16 TimToady S12 discusses this
01:16 masak I'll have a look
01:16 masak (wow, hanging out on #perl6 writing perl 6 sure beats sleeping)
01:17 masak so is Found(0) a constructor call or something?
01:17 TimToady which copy of E2 were you working from?  the svn copy has Update sections that give some of the differences.
01:19 masak I'm working from http://dev.perl.org/perl6/doc/design/exe/E02.html
01:19 lambdabot Title: Exegesis 2: Bits and Pieces - perl6:
01:19 masak it seems to have updates
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01:19 masak though perhaps not always completely up-to-date updates, I don't know
01:22 masak ok, so I ended up writing this at the top of the file:
01:22 masak role Found { submethod BUILD ($.times) {} }
01:23 masak hm, maybe I should declare $.times as well...
01:23 masak but it didn't seem to help, because pugs still complains about not finding the subroutine &Found
01:23 masak is it at least theoretically correct?
01:25 TimToady Found(0) is likelier to be viewed as a type coercion.  Not sure what pugs supports as a declaration of that currently, but whatever it is is probably wrong.  :)
01:26 masak :)
01:26 TimToady since I recently changed the spec to make method &.() the coercion syntax
01:26 TimToady but in general one should be using enums for these kinds of things anyway.
01:27 masak seems unlikely I will be able to make the code compile without removing its dependence on attributes, in other words
01:27 TimToady um, attributes means something else in P6
01:27 masak I see
01:28 masak what I mean is "those things after 'does' or 'but'"
01:28 TimToady properties
01:28 masak right
01:28 TimToady though declarative properties we usually call "traits"
01:28 masak ...without removing its dependence on properties, in other words
01:29 TimToady I don't know what pugs does with "but" currently.
01:30 TimToady the assumption has been that if we get mixins working properly, the properties will fall out of that.
01:30 masak ?eval my $a = 1 but { "hi" }
01:30 evalbot_r15386 \1
01:31 masak seems it takes a block and ignores it at present
01:31 TimToady ?eval say "hi" if 0 but True;
01:31 audreyt I think it implements the monkey-but construct
01:31 evalbot_r15386 Error: Cannot cast from VBool True to Pugs.AST.Internals.VCode (VCode)
01:31 audreyt which is not the same as mixins
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01:34 fglock I've got a cool idea while driving home :)
01:34 fglock mp6 now has a pugs backend
01:35 fglock and I'll make a p6-parrot backend
01:35 fglock so all my code is now reusable
01:36 fglock and mp6->parrot is straightforward
01:36 fglock also mp6->haskell :)
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01:43 fglock audreyt: I'm not sure if it is specced, but I use $/.to(3) in mp6 (it's an error in pugs, so I wrote a workaround)
01:45 TimToady what is it supposed to mean?
01:46 fglock change $/.to to 3
01:46 TimToady 3 what?
01:46 fglock 3rd char in the matched string
01:46 TimToady bet it's not
01:47 TimToady at least, I'll bet some platforms would make it bytes instead of chars
01:47 TimToady are you using it to set the final position back from where it ended up or forward?
01:48 audreyt fglock: we did that because MP6 has no assignment...
01:48 audreyt also, relative positioning (and reuse unit) makes more sense
01:48 audreyt oops, TimToady already said that.
01:48 audreyt fglock: I wonder if  $/.to_char(3) makes sense...
01:49 audreyt $/.set_to_char(3) # heh
01:49 TimToady $/.set_current_to_position_to_char_number(3)  :)
01:50 TimToady but why are we moving the position around in the first place?  Looking for the use case.
01:50 fglock TimToady: inside a regex, it builds an empty Match and then set .to
01:51 TimToady ah
01:51 fglock as the match continues, .to keeps incrementing
01:52 TimToady what I've been calling .pos, actually
01:53 TimToady but that's probably confusing the matcher with the matchee
01:55 weinig|away is now known as weinig
01:55 TimToady $_.pos presumably gets set to $/.to at certain points when the user might ask for .pos, I suppose.
01:55 fglock actually, I'm using an object called $MATCH, which is then copied to $/
01:59 fglock I probably need some sleep before looking at this
02:00 fglock mp6-on-pugs is currently using it's own $MATCH instead of pugs internal $/
02:01 fglock so this can be fixed later
02:02 fglock it's probably better to make mp6 and pugs just understand each other, so that no translation is needed - but 'cheat' was so inspiring :)
02:06 fglock the code for mp6 token is very very short - it should be easily fixable once I understand all the problems: http://svn.pugscode.org/pugs/v6/v6-MiniPerl6/lib/MiniPerl6/Emitter/Token.pm
02:06 lambdabot http://tinyurl.com/27c24d
02:07 fglock see you tomorrow! - sleep &
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02:09 fglock audreyt: by relative positioning (and reuse unit) - do you mean '.to++' ?
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02:15 audreyt @tell fglock yes I mean .to += 10
02:15 lambdabot Consider it noted.
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06:31 guest1234 has anyone used a symbolic reference with an API routine?
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07:05 svnbot6 r15387 | lwall++ | Major overhaul of symbol declaration and longnames for multi rules following
07:05 svnbot6 r15387 | lwall++ | a suggestion by putter++ to allow adverbial tags.  Removes need for #+ too.
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08:05 svnbot6 r15388 | lwall++ | New version of cheat to go with new symbol notation.
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08:42 svnbot6 r15389 | lwall++ | just formatting the comments to line up
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11:27 svnbot6 r15390 | fglock++ | mp6 - added 'Pugs' backend; needs some work on parameter lists and Match object
11:58 cmarcelo moose. anyone with sudo @ feather could make this happen? => http://dev.pugscode.org/ticket/19
11:58 lambdabot Title: #19 (Replace current logo with a correctly scaled version) - Pugs - Trac
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12:02 audreyt cmarcelo: done!
12:02 devbot6 dev: Ticket #19 (task closed): Replace current logo with a correctly scaled version <http://dev.pugscode.org/ticket/19#comment:2>
12:04 cmarcelo :)
12:06 cmarcelo audreyt: what's this "^Str vs. Str" thing?
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12:10 audreyt cmarcelo: well in Perl 5
12:10 audreyt you have
12:10 audreyt 'DBI'->isa('DBI')
12:10 audreyt right?
12:11 audreyt that is, the string 'DBI' can be used as a "prototypical" DBI object
12:11 audreyt from which you can create concrete instances
12:11 audreyt it is an Invocant with an Empty layout
12:11 audreyt i.e. no attributes
12:11 audreyt so far so good?
12:11 audreyt it uses the same ResponderInterface as any other instances
12:11 audreyt but it has no attributes
12:11 audreyt so you can only call methods on it that makes no use of attributes.
12:12 audreyt in Perl 6, if you look at an object, say
12:12 audreyt "hello world"
12:12 audreyt you can similarily ask for its prototype
12:12 audreyt via
12:13 audreyt "hello world".WHAT
12:13 audreyt which returns the prototypical Str
12:13 audreyt written as ::Str
12:13 cmarcelo (right..)
12:13 audreyt but if it's in scope, can also be written as Str
12:13 audreyt however
12:13 audreyt Str.isa(Class)
12:13 audreyt is _false_
12:13 audreyt unlike in other languages
12:14 audreyt to repeat: Str.isa(Str), but not Str.isa(Class)
12:14 audreyt however, how do we get a list of methods of the Str class?
12:14 audreyt we cannot say
12:14 audreyt Str.methods
12:14 audreyt because there is no &Str::methods method
12:14 audreyt rather, to get the list of methods we rely on the &Class::methods API
12:15 audreyt how do we get the class instance that backs up the Str object?
12:15 audreyt we use
12:15 audreyt "hello world".HOW
12:15 audreyt or
12:15 audreyt Str.HOW # same thing
12:15 audreyt it returns a Class instance
12:15 audreyt because of that, Str.HOW.new constructs another Class instance, not a Str instance
12:15 audreyt in any case, Str.HOW is abbreviated as ^Str
12:16 audreyt and stringifies as such
12:16 audreyt so you can say
12:16 audreyt ^Str.methods
12:16 audreyt to get the list of methods of the Str class
12:16 audreyt or you can use the meta method quantifier:
12:16 audreyt Str.^methods
12:16 audreyt which is sugar for the same thing.
12:16 audreyt end of explanation
12:16 audreyt :)
12:18 cmarcelo nice. thanks. So: Str.^methods == Str.HOW.methods == ^Str.methods
12:18 audreyt correct.
12:21 cmarcelo and: "hello world".^methods too, right? (if works for Str)
12:24 audreyt right.
12:24 audreyt but ^"hello world" does not do that
12:24 audreyt rather it's shorthand for
12:24 audreyt ""..^"hello world"
12:54 * audreyt searches for a suitable poem for Pugs.Meta
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12:57 svnbot6 r15391 | audreyt++ | * Pugs.Meta, a new modulespace to hold all builtin Class/Role
12:57 svnbot6 r15391 | audreyt++ |   meta-objects and their methods.  (In contrast, Pugs.Val would
12:57 svnbot6 r15391 | audreyt++ |   define the Haskell-land primitive structs.)
12:57 svnbot6 r15391 | audreyt++ | >   And though I oft have passed them by,
12:57 svnbot6 r15391 | audreyt++ | >   A day will come at last when I
12:57 svnbot6 r15391 | audreyt++ | >   Shall take the hidden paths that run
12:57 svnbot6 r15391 | audreyt++ | >   West of the Moon, East of the Sun.
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13:12 gaal moose!
13:13 diakopter joined perl6
13:17 cmarcelo moo
13:18 shay muu (spanish version)
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13:46 audreyt I really should blog about MO, Std, YARE, KP6 etc
13:46 audreyt but then I really should sleep too :-/
13:46 audreyt oh well, maybe tomorrow :)
13:46 * audreyt commits and sleeps
13:48 svnbot6 r15392 | audreyt++ | * src/Pugs/MOP.hs needs no DrIFTing.
13:51 svnbot6 r15393 | audreyt++ | * Refactor ^Str and ^Class into their own modules.
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14:43 yanto_ /msg nickserv link yanto holland
14:44 args you should change your password now.
14:45 yanto_ oops
14:45 moritz ;))
14:46 yanto_ now I have to work out how to change it :'(
14:46 moritz maybe I'm faster ;))
14:46 yanto_ haha
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14:55 svnbot6 r15394 | fglock++ | PCR - added '||' and '&&' to the grammar; but the semantics for '|' is still procedural
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15:44 skyde hellp
15:44 skyde hello
15:44 svnbot6 r15395 | audreyt++ | * Pugs.Val: Remove -boot circularity by restructing
15:44 svnbot6 r15395 | audreyt++ |   the "Val" class into .Base.
15:44 moritz hi skyde ;)
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15:46 moritz audreyt: today seems to be your big cleanup day ;)
15:46 svnbot6 r15396 | audreyt++ | * Pugs.AST.Internals - Remove circularity to Pugs.Meta
15:46 svnbot6 r15396 | audreyt++ |   by moving toVV into Pugs.Prim.  This means Pugs.Meta.*
15:46 svnbot6 r15396 | audreyt++ |   edits won't trigger lengthy recompilation again.
15:47 audreyt :)
15:47 svnbot6 r15397 | audreyt++ | * Pugs.Meta: Avoid warnings and start to lay groundwork
15:47 svnbot6 r15397 | audreyt++ |   for further Pugs.Meta.* calls.
15:47 audreyt stevan++ # once Moose 0.18 is released Pugs can get seamless MOP with Perl5 objects
15:47 audreyt i.e.
15:48 audreyt use perl5:DBI; DBI.connect(...).HOW.methods; # should transparently work
15:48 audreyt (and yes, we'll either bundle or depend on Moose.pm, since That Was The Plan All Along (tm))
15:49 audreyt and perl6-land defined classes will be visible from perl5-land as Moose-constructed classes
15:50 [particle] how will perl6-land classes be loaded in perl5-land?
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15:53 audreyt [particle]: redeclared via Moose.pm
15:53 audreyt [particle]: i.e. the p6-land "class Point { has $.x }"
15:53 audreyt generates both Haskell-side Point
15:53 audreyt and Perl5-side Point
15:54 audreyt since we can already ship closures bothways
15:54 audreyt if you define methods in p6-land
15:54 audreyt then the p5-land symtable entries simply point to the p6-land method bodies
15:55 audreyt but no matter which land you introspect from (i.e. @ISA, etc)
15:55 audreyt it will remain consistent
15:55 moritz wow ;)
15:55 audreyt ThatWasThePlanAllAlong(tm) :)
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15:59 [particle] moose!
16:03 stevan_ mooooossseee!!!!!!!!! :)
16:03 stevan_ w00se!
16:03 * stevan_ runs off to wake up nothingmuch and tell him the news :P
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16:12 fglock ¡¡¡əsooow
16:12 lambdabot fglock: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
16:14 TimToady I moosed be in the wrong channel...
16:15 * TimToady goes off to feed a ruby to a python to see if it makes smalltalk
16:18 * ingy thinks TimToady ada too much java
16:20 svnbot6 r15398 | audreyt++ | * Remove unused imports to avoid some more warnings in "make ghci".
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16:29 * TimToady goes off to feed a ruby to a python to see if it makes smalltalk with a lisp
16:30 [particle] C#.Net you later
16:31 diakopter TimToady: basic smalltalk perhaps?
16:34 * [particle] feeds an apl to ocaml
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16:45 fglock audreyt: re poem - http://shreyasg.wordpress.com/2007/02/01/who-will-sing-now/
16:45 lambdabot Title: Who will sing now? « Pulp Non-Fiction
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16:48 audreyt @tell fglock cool - but for hysterical reasons Pugs.* poems has to come from JRR Tolkien :)
16:48 lambdabot Consider it noted.
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17:20 gaal is there a wrong channel for moosing?
17:20 gaal hehe, "OmegaGB is an emulator for the Nintendo Game Boy, written in pure haskell."
17:20 moritz yes, #elk ;)
17:21 gaal caribou, wapiti...
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17:30 TimToady I think #boris and #natasha don't like squirreling either.
17:31 moritz do pythons moose?
17:31 gaal no doubt
17:33 stevan_ moritz: that is how they make baby pythons, so of course they moose
17:34 gaal esteban!
17:35 moritz gaal: no worry, /me is over 21 ;)
17:36 TimToady I don't think chocolate mooses reproduce that that though...
17:36 TimToady s/that/like
17:36 gaal today we see how to make the chocolate moose
17:36 gaal take the chocolate...
17:36 gaal take the moose...
17:36 gaal put the chocolate on the moose
17:36 gaal moose moose
17:36 stevan_ stir until throroughly combined
17:37 [particle] bork bork bork!
17:37 gaal hurdy hurdy hur
17:38 gaal @google swedish chef chocolate moose
17:38 lambdabot http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAsYwW7pt7o
17:39 * stevan_ ponders a set of Cocoa bindings using Moose :)
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17:39 gaal :)
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17:44 gaal lambdabot obviously needs a @moose command
17:44 drupek12212157 joined perl6
17:45 TimToady @moosages
17:45 lambdabot You don't have any new messages.
17:46 gaal @massages -- either
17:46 lambdabot You don't have any new messages.
17:47 TimToady @messagessessessess
17:47 lambdabot Unknown command, try @list
17:47 TimToady I guess it's not using soundex.  :)
17:48 TimToady @mesejiz
17:48 lambdabot Unknown command, try @list
17:49 * gaal looks at the source
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17:52 allbery_b no, it's levenschtein distance IIRC
17:59 audreyt gaal: HOW.methods support only took 1 line :D
17:59 svnbot6 r15399 | audreyt++ | * Support for Class.methods:
17:59 svnbot6 r15399 | audreyt++ |     pugs> vv('str').HOW.methods
17:59 svnbot6 r15399 | audreyt++ |     ["HOW","WHICH","bless","reverse"]
17:59 audreyt +    , "methods"     ... (map methodName . all_methods)
17:59 audreyt (in the PureClass table)
17:59 gaal you can derive Monad? how? and what >>= etc. do you get?
18:00 gaal ooh! (commits shorter than the log)++ :)
18:00 audreyt you can only derive it for newtype
18:00 audreyt the powerful thing about ... is that you can return any Typeable stuff
18:00 audreyt and once you supply a Boxable instance for it (in Pugs.Meta) then it automagically becomes first-class Perl6 object
18:01 audreyt so for example
18:01 audreyt +instance Boxable Eval a => Boxable Eval [a] where
18:01 audreyt takes care of parametric Lists
18:01 audreyt i.e. we are no longer constrained to double box and use [Val]
18:01 audreyt now [ID] is just as first-class as [(Val, Val)]
18:01 audreyt using the same p6-land "list" method table
18:02 audreyt this makes most method body oneliners :D
18:02 gaal very cool
18:02 gaal *very* cool :)
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18:03 audreyt and the UnboxedStrictStruct support geoffb++ wants jsut follows from this
18:03 audreyt aka PDL
18:03 gaal oh?
18:03 audreyt consider
18:03 audreyt [: Word16 :]
18:04 audreyt which is a fixed sized densely packed GPU-friendly vector aligned in 16-bits boundary
18:04 audreyt sicne we can derive
18:04 audreyt instance Boxable Eval a => Boxable Eval [: a :]
18:04 gaal is [: :] a 6.6 thing?
18:05 audreyt I think so
18:05 audreyt might be earlier not sure
18:05 gaal can you explain the difference between (...) and (!!!)?
18:05 audreyt need to say -fparr
18:05 audreyt sure. ... contains a pure method
18:05 audreyt !!! allows you to write in the Eval monad
18:05 devbot6 audreyt: Error: "!!" is not a valid command.
18:06 audreyt "aliased_method" !!! (./ "another_method")
18:06 audreyt is canonical example
18:07 audreyt so the idea is this: eventually they will used to be type the methods
18:07 audreyt method bodies carries effect types
18:07 audreyt pure/mutable/external
18:07 audreyt not values
18:07 audreyt values are always just values
18:07 audreyt this is closer to the actual desire
18:08 zgh anyone here going to the London.pm heretics meeting tonight?
18:08 audreyt of effect typing
18:08 audreyt so maybe ??? can be used for methods in STM
18:08 gaal @google effect typing
18:08 lambdabot http://cyberg.wits.ac.za/cyberg/sessiondocs/physical/hand/hand1/hand1.htm
18:08 lambdabot Title: The effect of touch typing skill on discomfort and performance in office workers
18:08 gaal er, no :/
18:08 gaal @google haskell "effect typing
18:08 lambdabot http://homepages.inf.ed.ac.uk/wadler/topics/monads.html
18:08 lambdabot Title: Wadler: Monads
18:09 audreyt @google marriage effects monads
18:09 penk left perl6
18:09 lambdabot http://citeseer.ist.psu.edu/536524.html
18:09 lambdabot Title: The Marriage of Effects and Monads - Wadler (ResearchIndex)
18:09 gaal interesting, that's the second time I'm hitting Wadler's page today :)
18:09 gaal (reading Comprehending Monads for first time. Illuminating.)
18:10 zgh no london.pm heretics? oh well hope to see some of you there...
18:10 gaal zgh: ask on #perl maybe?
18:11 drupek12212157 joined perl6
18:11 zgh hehe about to, but I'm more interested in this crowd ;-)
18:12 gaal from the abstract, effect typing sounds similar to what newVal was up to all along, no?
18:12 TimToady but we're heretical.  oh, wait...
18:12 gaal we're neither here nor tical.
18:13 GabrielVieira2 is now known as GabrielVieira
18:13 zgh I'm tickled.
18:22 gaal that paper's a bit whoa.
18:22 devbot6 planet6: Audrey Tang: MO bridge landing! <http://pugs.blogs.com/pugs/2007/03/mo_bridge_landi_1.html>
18:23 wilx joined perl6
18:23 audreyt @google Comprehending “Comprehending Monads"
18:23 lambdabot http://citeseer.ist.psu.edu/wadler92comprehending.html
18:23 lambdabot Title: Comprehending Monads - Wadler (ResearchIndex)
18:24 audreyt hm, 2:30am. I need to at least get some sleep because there's a liver-damage-level bloodcheck in <8 hours...
18:25 audreyt sanity check on the latest blogpost welcome
18:25 audreyt *wave* &
18:27 gaal very clear and mooseful to my eyes
18:27 audreyt moose!
18:27 gaal though I'd love some discussion of what work is to be done in haskell and what in Moose.pm?
18:28 gaal good night!
18:28 audreyt well you can _write_ that actually :)
18:28 audreyt but till tomorrow :) &
18:28 fglock I wonder if I can use yapp to find the longest token of a '|' in PCR
18:28 lambdabot fglock: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
18:29 gaal can't write it _yet_ :)
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19:21 Macae Good afternoon in Christ and Perl, Exists some documentation of the Pugs/Perl6 in Brazilian Portuguese?
19:21 PerlJam Macae: not to my knowledge.
19:22 PerlJam There was some attempts at german though.  Dont' know what happened with it.
19:22 Macae Ok ;)
19:26 jisom joined perl6
19:27 Macae PerlJam: Thanks! :)
19:27 Macae left perl6
19:40 weinig is now known as weinig|bbl
19:41 bernhard German docs are still alive: http://faq.perl-community.de/bin/view/Wissensbasis/Perl6Tutorial
19:41 lambdabot Title: PerlCommunityWiki » Wissensbasis » Perl6Tutorial
19:43 PerlJam bernhard++
19:43 fglock mm - Parse::Flex in cpan
19:44 fglock maybe it can be plugged together with PCR token
19:46 TimToady fglock: cheat now de-multifies the multi rules
19:47 fglock TimToady: nice
19:48 justatheory_ joined perl6
19:48 TreyHarris TimToady: have you seen http://xkcd.com/c224.html ?  "truly, [lisp] was the language from which the gods wrought the universe"?
19:49 TimToady yes, I tend to get those mentioned in several of the fora I inhabit.  But, hey, it's like volleyball, better too many going for the ball than too few...
19:49 TreyHarris :)
19:49 offby1 how forgiving!
19:50 PerlJam xkcd++ (they have funny ones every once in a while)
19:50 * offby1 <3 xkcd
19:50 fglock PCR still needs a lot of work
19:50 * offby1 's all-time favorite: http://xkcd.com/c45.html
19:50 lambdabot Title: xkcd - A webcomic of romance, sarcasm, math, and language - By Randall Munroe
19:51 TreyHarris you know, after having wrestled for a couple hours writing a method delegation module that can deal with inside-out objects in Perl 5, I'm really looking forward to a language with real opaque objects.
19:52 PerlJam TreyHarris: presumably you're talking about perl 6  :-)
19:52 TreyHarris PerlJam: why no.  Erlang, of course. ;)
19:55 fglock oops - Parse::Lex and Parse::Flex don't pass make test :(
19:56 dduncan speaking of "have you seen", http://lowendmac.com/hodges/07/0227.html is worth a good look if you didn't know what it says
19:56 lambdabot Title: Lisa Emulator Released, Allows OS X and Windows Users to Experience Apple's Lisa
19:57 dduncan its interesting that the Lisa was more advanced back 23ish years ago than the Mac OS to just follow it
19:57 dduncan in some respects
19:57 dduncan as well as its paradigm compared to today's machines
19:58 integral but the lisa did have really horrible non-square pixels
19:58 rindolf joined perl6
19:59 TimToady it's hard to succeed with something before its time if people have to pay what they think of as too much money for it.  Fortunately, Perl 6 is free, for some definition of free not including sunk developement costs...
20:01 TimToady s:19th/e//
20:02 fglock Parse::Lex - "pass (7); fail (37)"
20:03 TimToady I've never used lex in my life; one of my mental foibles that I always think I can write a better lexer myself.
20:04 TimToady though arguably I'm cheating with Perl 6 by building lexing right into the grammars...
20:06 TimToady grammatical categories are arguably just fancy lexer states.
20:07 fglock I'm trying to make a mental image of a lexer written in perl6, called back from perl5 to parse itself using regexes compiled to p5
20:09 larsen_ joined perl6
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20:13 * [particle] wonders about s:-2nd/e//
20:14 TimToady not a legal adverb, would have to be written s:nth(-2)/e//
20:14 TimToady or special cased.
20:15 TimToady like :19th is, more or less...  :)
20:15 TreyHarris i prefer :19st
20:15 TreyHarris or :19rd
20:16 TimToady :nrd(-2)
20:16 TimToady :nst :nnd are also rather quaint
20:19 TimToady :第ー2回
20:20 TimToady hmm, doesn't quite work given ー means 'one'
20:24 TimToady hmm, actually, that particular character is the katakana lengthener.  just looks like 一
20:26 jisom_ joined perl6
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20:36 luqui joined perl6
20:37 luqui Hey everybody.  I just dropped in to distribute kudos on the MO stuff.  It's inspiring. :-)
20:37 luqui I wish I had the time to work on it.
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21:07 gaal @tell audreyt can we add a "self" arg to mkBoxClass, and use "fix" at call site, so that "HOW" and "WHICH" are factored out to mkBoxClass's implementation?
21:07 lambdabot Consider it noted.
21:08 gaal ~/~ I need a fix cause I'm going down / down to the types that I left lyin' round ~/~
21:09 gaal also, I don't understand how we're supposed to get mutable classes yet...
21:11 Aankhen`` joined perl6
21:12 gaal but maybe that's what's meant by PureClass?
21:20 rod1 joined perl6
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22:13 yanto
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22:34 cj TimToady: what do you use for your terminal emulator?  Most of the above looks like junk
22:35 weinig is now known as weinig|bbl
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22:48 putter lol # re moose moose  # backlogging
23:01 svnbot6 r15400 | putter++ | t/regex/from_perl6_rules/subrule.t - corrected test count.
23:11 [1]Limbic_Region joined perl6
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23:16 svnbot6 r15401 | putter++ | t/regex/ - renamed "rule" declarations to "regex" to match spec.
23:16 svnbot6 r15401 | putter++ | t/regex/extract_pghpw.t and t/regex/grammar.t (ie, kolibrie's talk) were _not_ changed.
23:16 TimToady cj: it's just irssi inside screen inside ssh inside gnometerm.  no one else with a utf-8 terminal has much trouble seeing what I write unless they don't have sufficient fontage installed to handle Japanese.
23:17 TimToady and this channel does assume utf-8
23:19 svnbot6 r15402 | putter++ | yet_another_regex_engine - delete "late night, show what I'm thinking about" files LangPugsRegexTests.pm and PerlMix.pm.
23:20 TimToady putter: what do you think of latest std syntax?
23:21 putter looking...
23:21 avarab joined perl6
23:23 CardinalNumber joined perl6
23:23 putter ooo, nifty.
23:24 avar joined perl6
23:24 putter hmm.  why is it :sim...  in some places while just :... in others?
23:24 TimToady :name is assumed to be short for :sym<name>
23:25 TimToady but name has to be an identifier
23:25 TimToady for the short syntax
23:26 Endymion joined perl6
23:26 Endymion hi
23:26 TimToady howdy doo
23:26 Endymion :)
23:26 putter and :name  is distinguished from :mumble by... being first?
23:27 TimToady I'm not sure why you're looking for a distinction
23:27 putter rule r :mumble1 :mumble2 {...}
23:27 putter which is the name?
23:27 TimToady the one that's attached to the name with no space
23:27 putter if either?
23:27 TimToady r:mumble
23:28 putter ah, distinguished by non-space attachment.
23:28 putter ok
23:28 TimToady infix:<*> is a specific syntax of the more general infix:adverb() syntax
23:29 TimToady we use infix:<*> in naming the final operators, but the rules to parse the operator specifically don't use that form.
23:29 TimToady they all officially use infix:sym<*>
23:29 TimToady just that infix:sym<foo> can be shortened to infix:foo
23:29 putter hmm, and the reason it's   token foo:sym<( )> ... and not  token foo:<( )> ...?
23:30 putter just answered I think
23:30 TimToady &foo:<( )> would be ambig
23:30 putter k
23:30 Limbic_Region was the realclean after the initial MO bridge landed required by everyone or just me?
23:30 putter nifty.  duplication of info gone, but naming remains.  yay.
23:31 * putter hasn't tried.  fishing elsewhere.  will try bridge later.
23:31 * offby1 plays bridge
23:32 TimToady Limbic_Region: I just do a realclean as a matter of course most of the time I see more than a few changes to .hs files
23:33 TimToady in fact, I usually just type ".testme" which does the realclean, reconfiger, and make smoke
23:33 * putter wonders if adverbial names could be attached to multi methods too, as they have the same "how do you name it without playing longname typespace whack-a-mole" issue...
23:33 TimToady I was thinking we might allow it
23:33 avar joined perl6
23:33 putter :)
23:34 TimToady basically the ident+adverb gives you unique names, but different dispatchers may choose to pay attention to those names differently.
23:36 TimToady I've just been trying to figure out how to document that generalization, but $job is wanting me some these days, so haven't got to it.
23:37 TimToady thought we might play with it a bit more in std before making it official anyway.
23:38 putter sounds good
23:39 TimToady also, the cheat program can now mangle the multi names into non-multi rules.  if you run it on std and look at the end of the result, you'll see what I mean.
23:40 putter once there is the concept of adverbial naming of things, I'm not much concerned about whether it's attached or not.
23:40 PhUrl joined perl6
23:40 putter will do
23:40 TimToady I think it's important to distinguish that
23:40 putter I hope to have yet_another running t/regex/ tests tonight.  will try cheated std too.
23:41 TimToady k
23:41 CardinalNumber is now known as ProperNoun
23:43 ludan joined perl6
23:49 svnbot6 r15403 | putter++ | Perl-6.0.0-STD.pm - added "use v6-alpha;".
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